Morning blood sugar Levels.

I found this while reading the ADA web site.

its from ADA live.

nyc, ny: why would blood glucose level be high first thing in the morning
(before breakfast)and then drop thru out the day? No carbs were consumed for
dinner the night before.

Natalie and Terry: We have found that some patients do have high
before-breakfast blood glucose levels because of hormones that are released
in the early part of sleep (called the Dawn Phenomenon). Typically, the
blood glucose level rises between 4 AM and 8 AM. Check your blood glucose
level in the middle of the night (around 3 AM). If your blood sugar is high,
you may be experiencing the dawn phenomenon. If it is low, it may be a
rebound hyperglycemia (high blood glucose) causing your high blood glucose
levels in the morning. This occurs if you have low blood glucose levels at
night and your body is releasing hormones as a defense mechanism against low
blood sugar. It would be best to consult your physician for proper diagnosis
and treatment.

On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 07:53:10 GMT, "Gantlet" <NotSaying@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>I found this while reading the ADA web site.
>
>its from ADA live.
>
>nyc, ny: why would blood glucose level be high first thing in the morning
>(before breakfast)and then drop thru out the day? No carbs were consumed for
>dinner the night before.
>
>Natalie and Terry: We have found that some patients do have high
>before-breakfast blood glucose levels because of hormones that are released
>in the early part of sleep (called the Dawn Phenomenon). Typically, the
>blood glucose level rises between 4 AM and 8 AM. Check your blood glucose
>level in the middle of the night (around 3 AM). If your blood sugar is high,
>you may be experiencing the dawn phenomenon. If it is low, it may be a
>rebound hyperglycemia (high blood glucose) causing your high blood glucose
>levels in the morning. This occurs if you have low blood glucose levels at
>night and your body is releasing hormones as a defense mechanism against low
>blood sugar. It would be best to consult your physician for proper diagnosis
>and treatment.
>
If you wanted to see what your DP levels are, and they typically
start rising from 4am to 8am, why check them at 3am? The DP wouldn't
have started, yet.

If you check at 3am and your bG levels are low, and then you check on
arising, say at 7am, then I'd say you're experiencing DP.

If, however, your 3am check is high, then it's something else.
Perhaps related to what you ate before going to sleep.

Alan

==

It's not that I think stupidity should be punishable by death.
I just think we should take the warning labels off of everything
and let the problem take care of itself.

--------------------------------------------------------

<Alan Moorman@visi.com> wrote in message
news:b07sk2146v9u19p95oq017tbm1k2hcv1sp@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 07:53:10 GMT, "Gantlet" <NotSaying@yahoo.com>
: wrote:
:
: >I found this while reading the ADA web site.
: >
: >its from ADA live.
: >
: >nyc, ny: why would blood glucose level be high first thing in the morning
: >(before breakfast)and then drop thru out the day? No carbs were consumed
for
: >dinner the night before.
: >
: >Natalie and Terry: We have found that some patients do have high
: >before-breakfast blood glucose levels because of hormones that are
released
: >in the early part of sleep (called the Dawn Phenomenon). Typically, the
: >blood glucose level rises between 4 AM and 8 AM. Check your blood glucose
: >level in the middle of the night (around 3 AM). If your blood sugar is
high,
: >you may be experiencing the dawn phenomenon. If it is low, it may be a
: >rebound hyperglycemia (high blood glucose) causing your high blood
glucose
: >levels in the morning. This occurs if you have low blood glucose levels
at
: >night and your body is releasing hormones as a defense mechanism against
low
: >blood sugar. It would be best to consult your physician for proper
diagnosis
: >and treatment.
: >
: If you wanted to see what your DP levels are, and they typically
: start rising from 4am to 8am, why check them at 3am? The DP wouldn't
: have started, yet.
:
: If you check at 3am and your bG levels are low, and then you check on
: arising, say at 7am, then I'd say you're experiencing DP.
:
: If, however, your 3am check is high, then it's something else.
: Perhaps related to what you ate before going to sleep.
:
: Alan

Best way I've found to check for DP is to use a CGMS. Through CGMS testing
and on my own, I've found for me, I'm semi textbook like. As the books
state,
my system also needs very little insulin from midnight until 3am, but some
days
I extend to 4am then my body starts to put out glucose to rise for the day
around
4:30am, which by pumping allows me to properly set my pump to decrease my
basal insulin to almost nothing (.5u/hr) during the time I don't need much
all the
way up to 1.1u/hr during the time of my DP. This allows me to be able to
sleep
in if I want and to be assured good fasting glucose.

Even type 2's can use a CGMS just need to ask your Endo about it. Also
check with
your insurance co if they'll cover the cost, if so, I'd be hounding my Endo
if one is
having issues with their fasting. Nothing like seeing what your glucose is
doing every
5mins over a 72hr period. The results are very fasinating.

--
Reisa, T1, Animas IR1250 Pumper
DX-5/00 ASD-7/00
A1C: 6.2% (8/24/06)
Daily CHO: 150-200gm
TDD: 34-38u

RK: Isn't a CGMS unit expensive for a garden variety T2 type person?

Larry
rk wrote:
> <Alan Moorman@visi.com> wrote in message
> news:b07sk2146v9u19p95oq017tbm1k2hcv1sp@4ax.com...
> : On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 07:53:10 GMT, "Gantlet" <NotSaying@yahoo.com>
> : wrote:
> :
> : >I found this while reading the ADA web site.
> : >
> : >its from ADA live.
> : >
> : >nyc, ny: why would blood glucose level be high first thing in the morning
> : >(before breakfast)and then drop thru out the day? No carbs were consumed
> for
> : >dinner the night before.
> : >
> : >Natalie and Terry: We have found that some patients do have high
> : >before-breakfast blood glucose levels because of hormones that are
> released
> : >in the early part of sleep (called the Dawn Phenomenon). Typically, the
> : >blood glucose level rises between 4 AM and 8 AM. Check your blood glucose
> : >level in the middle of the night (around 3 AM). If your blood sugar is
> high,
> : >you may be experiencing the dawn phenomenon. If it is low, it may be a
> : >rebound hyperglycemia (high blood glucose) causing your high blood
> glucose
> : >levels in the morning. This occurs if you have low blood glucose levels
> at
> : >night and your body is releasing hormones as a defense mechanism against
> low
> : >blood sugar. It would be best to consult your physician for proper
> diagnosis
> : >and treatment.
> : >
> : If you wanted to see what your DP levels are, and they typically
> : start rising from 4am to 8am, why check them at 3am? The DP wouldn't
> : have started, yet.
> :
> : If you check at 3am and your bG levels are low, and then you check on
> : arising, say at 7am, then I'd say you're experiencing DP.
> :
> : If, however, your 3am check is high, then it's something else.
> : Perhaps related to what you ate before going to sleep.
> :
> : Alan
>
> Best way I've found to check for DP is to use a CGMS. Through CGMS testing
> and on my own, I've found for me, I'm semi textbook like. As the books
> state,
> my system also needs very little insulin from midnight until 3am, but some
> days
> I extend to 4am then my body starts to put out glucose to rise for the day
> around
> 4:30am, which by pumping allows me to properly set my pump to decrease my
> basal insulin to almost nothing (.5u/hr) during the time I don't need much
> all the
> way up to 1.1u/hr during the time of my DP. This allows me to be able to
> sleep
> in if I want and to be assured good fasting glucose.
>
> Even type 2's can use a CGMS just need to ask your Endo about it. Also
> check with
> your insurance co if they'll cover the cost, if so, I'd be hounding my Endo
> if one is
> having issues with their fasting. Nothing like seeing what your glucose is
> doing every
> 5mins over a 72hr period. The results are very fasinating.
>
> --
> Reisa, T1, Animas IR1250 Pumper
> DX-5/00 ASD-7/00
> A1C: 6.2% (8/24/06)
> Daily CHO: 150-200gm
> TDD: 34-38u

<Alan Moorman@visi.com> wrote in message
news:b07sk2146v9u19p95oq017tbm1k2hcv1sp@4ax.com...

> If you wanted to see what your DP levels are, and they typically
> start rising from 4am to 8am, why check them at 3am? The DP wouldn't
> have started, yet.


and each of us is different... for me the best time may be to check
at 3am for you 4am or vis versa. it would probably require a few
nights.


>
> If you check at 3am and your bG levels are low, and then you check on
> arising, say at 7am, then I'd say you're experiencing DP.

to take this further we would have to know what number was seen at 3am.


>
> If, however, your 3am check is high, then it's something else.
> Perhaps related to what you ate before going to sleep.
>
> Alan

i would think in either case it might help to try different night time
snacks.
for me i eat my bed time snack and go to sleep. try to get as little time
between that snack and breakfast
and get 8 hours sleep.

i really didnt research this all that much. I am unaware of how many
diabetic
organizations agree with what i found on the ADA web site
and who would disagree.
of course if i really wanted to work on it further, I would like a chance to
sit down with an endo. i would say that it might be a good thing for a
newbie or any diabetic
to talk about with their endo.
I am willing to talk about it here more. if i have my usual night time snack
my FBS is usually in the 90's and below.
Tom

i would think that depends on the how bad the blood sugar levels are.
i pay for my own health insurance and i am thinking this unit would be just
a drop
in the bucket campared to $1,000 a month. in anycase. knowledge is health
when
we are talking about diabetes. and this unit can ad to our knowledge if we
are having bad fbs levels.
i am glad she mentioned it.

Tom

>> If, however, your 3am check is high, then it's something else.
>> Perhaps related to what you ate before going to sleep.
>>
>> Alan

i added
(high or low)

>
> i would think in either case (high or low )it might help to try different
> night time snacks.
> for me i eat my bed time snack and go to sleep. try to get as little time
> between that snack and breakfast
> and get 8 hours sleep.

Honestly Larry, I don't think so. Just as Tom stated, *IF* the
garden variety T2 is struggling with their FBG or glucose at any
time of the day, a CGMS is about the best tool on the market at
this time. I cannot tell you how much the cost is. My insurance
thankfully paid 100% of all of my testing.

Like I said, even for a T2, it's an invaluable testing tool. If one has
100 or so test strips they want to use, they can do the exact same
test. Simple set a time to start. Then from that start time, start
testing every 5mins to see what you're glucose is doing for 72hrs
straight. Opps! that might mean NO sleep though... that's whats
so wonderful about the CGMS, it keeps on testing even when we're
sleeping. Carrying on our daily patterns. Also helps calibrate your
own home meter against what you're glucose actually is. When you
test or test you mark the time which is reflected on the CGMS when
testing is finished.

In case others might wonder, it's put on and used much like a pump.
That is how I was able to determine I was able to use a pump. Prior,
I was very against pumping.. the "No way I'm gonna be hooked to
something 24/7" -- "No way someone's sticking something in my belly
for 24/7" LOL Scary that it didn't hurt at all!!! I didn't notice it much at
all after the first few hours. I hook my infusion set to my belly, but the
nurse hooks the CGMS to my hip.. still doesn't hurt. Just slip the unit in
my front pocket and life goes on.

--
Reisa, T1, Animas IR1250 Pumper
DX-5/00 ASD-7/00
A1C: 6.2% (8/24/06)
Daily CHO: 150-200gm
TDD: 34-38u
"Larry" <boelkowj@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1162774600.761143.168230@m7g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com...
: RK: Isn't a CGMS unit expensive for a garden variety T2 type person?
:
: Larry
: rk wrote:
: > <Alan Moorman@visi.com> wrote in message
: > news:b07sk2146v9u19p95oq017tbm1k2hcv1sp@4ax.com...
: > : On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 07:53:10 GMT, "Gantlet" <NotSaying@yahoo.com>
: > : wrote:
: > :
: > : >I found this while reading the ADA web site.
: > : >
: > : >its from ADA live.
: > : >
: > : >nyc, ny: why would blood glucose level be high first thing in the
morning
: > : >(before breakfast)and then drop thru out the day? No carbs were
consumed
: > for
: > : >dinner the night before.
: > : >
: > : >Natalie and Terry: We have found that some patients do have high
: > : >before-breakfast blood glucose levels because of hormones that are
: > released
: > : >in the early part of sleep (called the Dawn Phenomenon). Typically,
the
: > : >blood glucose level rises between 4 AM and 8 AM. Check your blood
glucose
: > : >level in the middle of the night (around 3 AM). If your blood sugar
is
: > high,
: > : >you may be experiencing the dawn phenomenon. If it is low, it may be
a
: > : >rebound hyperglycemia (high blood glucose) causing your high blood
: > glucose
: > : >levels in the morning. This occurs if you have low blood glucose
levels
: > at
: > : >night and your body is releasing hormones as a defense mechanism
against
: > low
: > : >blood sugar. It would be best to consult your physician for proper
: > diagnosis
: > : >and treatment.
: > : >
: > : If you wanted to see what your DP levels are, and they typically
: > : start rising from 4am to 8am, why check them at 3am? The DP wouldn't
: > : have started, yet.
: > :
: > : If you check at 3am and your bG levels are low, and then you check on
: > : arising, say at 7am, then I'd say you're experiencing DP.
: > :
: > : If, however, your 3am check is high, then it's something else.
: > : Perhaps related to what you ate before going to sleep.
: > :
: > : Alan
: >
: > Best way I've found to check for DP is to use a CGMS. Through CGMS
testing
: > and on my own, I've found for me, I'm semi textbook like. As the books
: > state,
: > my system also needs very little insulin from midnight until 3am, but
some
: > days
: > I extend to 4am then my body starts to put out glucose to rise for the
day
: > around
: > 4:30am, which by pumping allows me to properly set my pump to decrease
my
: > basal insulin to almost nothing (.5u/hr) during the time I don't need
much
: > all the
: > way up to 1.1u/hr during the time of my DP. This allows me to be able
to
: > sleep
: > in if I want and to be assured good fasting glucose.
: >
: > Even type 2's can use a CGMS just need to ask your Endo about it. Also
: > check with
: > your insurance co if they'll cover the cost, if so, I'd be hounding my
Endo
: > if one is
: > having issues with their fasting. Nothing like seeing what your glucose
is
: > doing every
: > 5mins over a 72hr period. The results are very fasinating.
: >
: > --
: > Reisa, T1, Animas IR1250 Pumper
: > DX-5/00 ASD-7/00
: > A1C: 6.2% (8/24/06)
: > Daily CHO: 150-200gm
: > TDD: 34-38u
:

Gantlet <NotSaying@yahoo.com> wrote:

> <Alan Moorman@visi.com> wrote in message
> news:b07sk2146v9u19p95oq017tbm1k2hcv1sp@4ax.com...

>> If you wanted to see what your DP levels are, and they typically
>> start rising from 4am to 8am, why check them at 3am? The DP wouldn't
>> have started, yet.

> and each of us is different... for me the best time may be to check
> at 3am for you 4am or vis versa. it would probably require a few
> nights.

I'm a bit suspicious of this idea of testing at 3am to find out what
your BG is when you're asleep at 3am. Either you stay up until 3am, in
which case your BG isn't a typical sleep BG, or you woke yourself up
with an alarm, in which case the adrenalin burst that usually
accompanies waking will have boosted your BG.

What you need is to get someone to take your BG while you're asleep :-)

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Great information rk, thanks for posting it. Learn something new
everyday. :-)

--
Cheri

rk wrote in message ...
>Honestly Larry, I don't think so. Just as Tom stated, *IF* the
>garden variety T2 is struggling with their FBG or glucose at any
>time of the day, a CGMS is about the best tool on the market at
>this time. I cannot tell you how much the cost is. My insurance
>thankfully paid 100% of all of my testing.
>
>Like I said, even for a T2, it's an invaluable testing tool. If one
has
>100 or so test strips they want to use, they can do the exact same
>test. Simple set a time to start. Then from that start time, start
>testing every 5mins to see what you're glucose is doing for 72hrs
>straight. Opps! that might mean NO sleep though... that's whats
>so wonderful about the CGMS, it keeps on testing even when we're
>sleeping. Carrying on our daily patterns. Also helps calibrate your
>own home meter against what you're glucose actually is. When you
>test or test you mark the time which is reflected on the CGMS when
>testing is finished.
>
>In case others might wonder, it's put on and used much like a pump.
>That is how I was able to determine I was able to use a pump. Prior,
>I was very against pumping.. the "No way I'm gonna be hooked to
>something 24/7" -- "No way someone's sticking something in my belly
>for 24/7" LOL Scary that it didn't hurt at all!!! I didn't notice it
much at
>all after the first few hours. I hook my infusion set to my belly, but
the
>nurse hooks the CGMS to my hip.. still doesn't hurt. Just slip the
unit in
>my front pocket and life goes on.
>
>--
>Reisa, T1, Animas IR1250 Pumper
>DX-5/00 ASD-7/00
>A1C: 6.2% (8/24/06)
>Daily CHO: 150-200gm
>TDD: 34-38u

"Chris Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:4r8o6eFq08f1U2@individual.net...
> I'm a bit suspicious of this idea of testing at 3am to find out what
> your BG is when you're asleep at 3am. Either you stay up until 3am, in
> which case your BG isn't a typical sleep BG, or you woke yourself up
> with an alarm, in which case the adrenalin burst that usually
> accompanies waking will have boosted your BG.
>

Some of us wake up during the night anyway.
Actually, this can be useful....

That's when I take my thyroid meds -- empty stomach, not going to eat
soon...except that if I'm feeling peckish I have a bite of something -- *a*
bite, not even a whole snack! -- and take my thyroid meds the *next* time I
wake up.

I would love to sleep through the night -- ISTR it was a very nice feeling
to have a long uninterrupted sleep.
<sigh>
bj

"Chris Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:4r8o6eFq08f1U2@individual.net...
> Gantlet <NotSaying@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> <Alan Moorman@visi.com> wrote in message
>> news:b07sk2146v9u19p95oq017tbm1k2hcv1sp@4ax.com...
>
>>> If you wanted to see what your DP levels are, and they typically
>>> start rising from 4am to 8am, why check them at 3am? The DP wouldn't
>>> have started, yet.
>
>> and each of us is different... for me the best time may be to check
>> at 3am for you 4am or vis versa. it would probably require a few
>> nights.
>
> I'm a bit suspicious of this idea of testing at 3am to find out what
> your BG is when you're asleep at 3am.


it is ok Chris its very complicated. to see what your blood sugar is at 3am
its better to test at 3am then it would be at 2am or 4am. just like
if you wanted to see what your blood sugar was at 2am - 2am would be the
best time to test.

Tom

bj wrote in message ...
>"Chris Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
>news:4r8o6eFq08f1U2@individual.net...
>> I'm a bit suspicious of this idea of testing at 3am to find out what
>> your BG is when you're asleep at 3am. Either you stay up until 3am, in
>> which case your BG isn't a typical sleep BG, or you woke yourself up
>> with an alarm, in which case the adrenalin burst that usually
>> accompanies waking will have boosted your BG.
>>
>
>Some of us wake up during the night anyway.
>Actually, this can be useful....
>
>That's when I take my thyroid meds -- empty stomach, not going to eat
>soon...except that if I'm feeling peckish I have a bite of something -- *a*
>bite, not even a whole snack! -- and take my thyroid meds the *next* time I
>wake up.
>
>I would love to sleep through the night -- ISTR it was a very nice feeling
>to have a long uninterrupted sleep.
><sigh>
>bj


". . . . I would love to sleep through the night -- ISTR it was a very
nice feeling to have a long uninterrupted sleep. . ."

I know that there was such a time for me, but I can't remember how long
ago.

Regards
Old Al

On 6 Nov 2006 12:30:06 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
wrote:

>Gantlet <NotSaying@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> <Alan Moorman@visi.com> wrote in message
>> news:b07sk2146v9u19p95oq017tbm1k2hcv1sp@4ax.com...
>
>>> If you wanted to see what your DP levels are, and they typically
>>> start rising from 4am to 8am, why check them at 3am? The DP wouldn't
>>> have started, yet.
>
>> and each of us is different... for me the best time may be to check
>> at 3am for you 4am or vis versa. it would probably require a few
>> nights.
>
>I'm a bit suspicious of this idea of testing at 3am to find out what
>your BG is when you're asleep at 3am. Either you stay up until 3am, in
>which case your BG isn't a typical sleep BG, or you woke yourself up
>with an alarm, in which case the adrenalin burst that usually
>accompanies waking will have boosted your BG.
>
>What you need is to get someone to take your BG while you're asleep :-)

There speaks a lucky man who doesn't suffer from nocturia . . .

Gantlet <NotSaying@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Chris Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:4r8o6eFq08f1U2@individual.net...
>> Gantlet <NotSaying@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <Alan Moorman@visi.com> wrote in message
>>> news:b07sk2146v9u19p95oq017tbm1k2hcv1sp@4ax.com...
>>
>>>> If you wanted to see what your DP levels are, and they typically
>>>> start rising from 4am to 8am, why check them at 3am? The DP wouldn't
>>>> have started, yet.
>>
>>> and each of us is different... for me the best time may be to check
>>> at 3am for you 4am or vis versa. it would probably require a few
>>> nights.
>>
>> I'm a bit suspicious of this idea of testing at 3am to find out what
>> your BG is when you're asleep at 3am.

> it is ok Chris its very complicated. to see what your blood sugar is at 3am
> its better to test at 3am then it would be at 2am or 4am. just like
> if you wanted to see what your blood sugar was at 2am - 2am would be the
> best time to test.

Have you been at the bottle again, Tom? Try reading what I wrote again
when your brain is in better shape. You might have more luck
understanding it.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]