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New Insulin Causes Weight Loss
  1. #1
    Saxology Guest

    Default New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how a
    new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?

    And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered out
    by kidneys and tossed away?

    -Sax



  2. #2
    Alice Faber Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    In article <gvSkh.4549$[email protected] net>,
    "Saxology" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how a
    > new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?
    >
    > And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    > insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    > have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    > sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered out
    > by kidneys and tossed away?
    >


    In the short term, yeah. In the longer term, higher BGs increase the
    risk for all sorts of complications (kidney damage, peripheral
    neuropathy, retinopathy, etc.).

    --
    AF
    "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team."
    --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball

  3. #3
    Flying Rat Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    In article <gvSkh.4549$[email protected] net>,
    [email protected] says...
    > I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how a
    > new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?
    >


    possibly NovoNordisk and their Levemir. Rather than saying it causes
    weight loss, Novo are pushing the line that using Levemir improves
    weight control and can help with a weight loss program.

    Levemir is a long-action insulin analogue similar in action to Lantus

    Ratty

  4. #4
    Chris Malcolm Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how a
    > new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?


    > And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    > insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    > have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    > sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered out
    > by kidneys and tossed away?


    The research suggests nearly the opposite: that a combination of high
    BGs and high insulin causes a larger proportion of the sugars to be
    deposited as fat.

    The sugars of high BG don't lie around stagnant. They are eventually
    mopped up either by being burnt in muscles or deposited in liver and
    muscle glycogen stores or deposited as fat, minus the fraction that is
    used up in causing glycation damage. It just happens a lot more slowly
    and in different relative proportions compared to non-diabetics.

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]


  5. #5
    [email protected] Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    Saxology wrote:
    > I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how a
    > new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?


    Almost certainly they were talking about Byetta, which is injected but
    NOT insulin.

    > And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    > insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    > have been produced.


    Teenage/twentiesh girls with Type 1 have been known to skip shots and
    induce ketoacidosis as an "aid" to lose weight. This is "common
    knowledge" among practitioners as something to check for in the young.

    NOT a good idea for general health. DKA is quite dangerous,.

    > What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    > sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered out
    > by kidneys and tossed away?


    Yes, but in general this only happens down to a bg of about 180 (which
    is the general threshold for a fairly healthy person to spill glucose
    in urine). In the meantime it is bad for the kidneys and the rest of
    your body.

    Tim.


  6. #6
    oldal4865 Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    Saxology wrote in message ...
    >I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how a
    >new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?
    >
    >And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    >insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    >have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    >sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered out
    >by kidneys and tossed away?
    >
    >-Sax
    >
    >


    During the clinical trials of Levemir, some of the patients lost weight.
    Levemir is usually compared with NPH in trials such as these; NPH is
    notorious for encouraging weight gain. Thus, Levemir-user weight history
    looks really good when compared to NPH-user weight history. The better
    control of weight when using Levemir is thought to be a result of the more
    uniform and predictable activity of Levemir. You don't get caught with as
    many surprise lows that demand eating to feed the insulin.

    You can lose weight if you allow your sugars to run out of control.
    "Calories in" won't equal "energy use + weight gain" because the kidneys
    will start dumping glucose into the urine when bG moves into the 180 mg/dL
    (10 mmol/L) range (YMMV).

    That's a very short-sighted technique for weight control. The high sugars
    cause irreversible damage to the organs.

    The docs and CDE are always "fighting" with teen-age T1 who pull this stunt.

    Regards
    Old Al



  7. #7
    Mak Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    [Default] On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 16:43:56 GMT, "Saxology"
    <[email protected]> Giggled into the madness of usenet:

    >I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how a
    >new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?
    >
    >And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    >insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    >have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    >sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered out
    >by kidneys and tossed away?
    >
    >-Sax
    >



    not before causing damage to the body such as erectile dysfunction,
    kidney damage, liver damage, diabetic retinopathy(leads to blindness),
    poor circulation- leading to slow healing of wounds and easy
    infections - leads to amputations, nerve damage, and a whole lot more.

    you do not safely lose weight by allowing your BG to run high. And if
    you are a type 2 it adds weight. If you are a type 1, you also run
    the risk of DKA which can become fatal if left untreated too long.

    if you want to lose weight, you lower your injected insulin dose at
    the same time you lower your food intake and increase your exercise
    level. doing so with the help of your doctor. and increased BG
    testing.

    don't play russian roulette with your life.

    --
    Mck Deltec CoZmore Pumper
    Type 1 since 1975
    http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
    http://www.diabetic-talk.org
    http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
    http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the
    President, or that we are to stand by the President
    right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
    but is morally treasonable to the American public."
    ....Theodore Roosevelt

    (o )
    --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

    "I don't know half of you
    half as well as I should like;
    and I like less than half of you
    half as well as you deserve."
    ....Bilbo Baggins


    DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
    ..




  8. #8
    Mak Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    [Default] On 28 Dec 2006 17:10:01 GMT, Chris Malcolm
    <[email protected]> Giggled into the madness of usenet:

    >Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how a
    >> new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?

    >
    >> And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    >> insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    >> have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    >> sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered out
    >> by kidneys and tossed away?

    >
    >The research suggests nearly the opposite: that a combination of high
    >BGs and high insulin causes a larger proportion of the sugars to be
    >deposited as fat.
    >
    >The sugars of high BG don't lie around stagnant. They are eventually
    >mopped up either by being burnt in muscles or deposited in liver and
    >muscle glycogen stores or deposited as fat, minus the fraction that is
    >used up in causing glycation damage. It just happens a lot more slowly
    >and in different relative proportions compared to non-diabetics.



    not in type ones.

    once the BG goes above the renal thresh hold it spills into the urine
    as the body tries to flush it out. Because of this the body is
    removing water from the system and dehydrating itself. During that
    dehydration the BG still in the blood stream becomes even more
    concentrated do to the water loss.

    because of the lack of insulin, the body burns fat reserves rapidly
    for energy. A by product is the release of ketones which also cross
    the renal thresh hold after a certain point and have to be flushed by
    the kidneys, thus speeding up the dehydration that is already in
    progress. Thus concentrating the ketones still in the blood stream
    due to the lack of water. making the blood chemistry extremely acidic
    and toxic on an increasingly exponential rate.

    If left untreated, coma and then death can occur. But not before
    extreme nausea, vomiting and abdominal and or muscle pain all over the
    body, severe headache and difficulty breathing occur.

    The original poster was talking about reducing their insulin to induce
    high BG for the purpose of weight loss. It is not safe or advisable.

    --
    Mck Deltec CoZmore Pumper
    Type 1 since 1975
    http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
    http://www.diabetic-talk.org
    http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
    http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the
    President, or that we are to stand by the President
    right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
    but is morally treasonable to the American public."
    ....Theodore Roosevelt

    (o )
    --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

    "I don't know half of you
    half as well as I should like;
    and I like less than half of you
    half as well as you deserve."
    ....Bilbo Baggins


    DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
    ..




  9. #9
    Saxology Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    Thanks for all of the information. I wasn't actually going to try and lose
    weight this way. Just collecting data and trying to further my
    understanding. I am at a weight plateau right now but ned to lose more.
    The process is too slow but I am sticking with it as best I can.

    I keep seeing that Insulin cuases weight gain and loss... different things
    at different times. Do you take insulin to allow more energy use in the
    body and burn more calories or... do you use less to cause your body to
    throw them away? A constant loop of thinking surrounds this disease and I
    just keep learning.

    Lately my metabolism has slowed (I think). I am cold (nose fingers, etc)
    when I used to be always "hot". I need to find a way to reset this a bit or
    maybe this is just how my new self is going to be. Still learning. It's
    gonna be a year in February.....
    -Sax



  10. #10
    [email protected] Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    Saxology wrote:
    > I keep seeing that Insulin cuases weight gain and loss... different things
    > at different times. Do you take insulin to allow more energy use in the
    > body and burn more calories or... do you use less to cause your body to
    > throw them away?


    Well, I take it so I don't die. I take it you weren't diagnosed in DKA
    coma :-).

    > Lately my metabolism has slowed (I think). I am cold (nose fingers, etc)
    > when I used to be always "hot".


    Thyroid levels? TSH? Do you see an endocrinologist? Endos like to treat
    hypothyroidism, and you just named some vague symptoms.

    Tim.


  11. #11
    Anon Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Flying Rat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected] net...
    > In article <gvSkh.4549$[email protected] net>,
    > [email protected] says...
    >> I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how
    >> a
    >> new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?
    >>

    >
    > possibly NovoNordisk and their Levemir. Rather than saying it causes
    > weight loss, Novo are pushing the line that using Levemir improves
    > weight control and can help with a weight loss program.
    >
    > Levemir is a long-action insulin analogue similar in action to Lantus
    >
    > Ratty


    Levemir is very different in the way it works than Lantus although the
    results are very similar.




  12. #12
    Beav Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Saxology" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:gvSkh.4549$[email protected] ink.net...
    >I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how a
    >new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?
    >
    > And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    > insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    > have been produced.


    Correct, it (the body) just eats itself into a non recoverable state.

    What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    > sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered out
    > by kidneys and tossed away?


    Some do, the rest just sit and slowly kill. It's a choice though.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19



  13. #13
    Beav Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Mak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > [Default] On 28 Dec 2006 17:10:01 GMT, Chris Malcolm
    > <[email protected]> Giggled into the madness of usenet:
    >
    >>Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about
    >>> how a
    >>> new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?

    >>
    >>> And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    >>> insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    >>> have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    >>> sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered
    >>> out
    >>> by kidneys and tossed away?

    >>
    >>The research suggests nearly the opposite: that a combination of high
    >>BGs and high insulin causes a larger proportion of the sugars to be
    >>deposited as fat.
    >>
    >>The sugars of high BG don't lie around stagnant. They are eventually
    >>mopped up either by being burnt in muscles or deposited in liver and
    >>muscle glycogen stores or deposited as fat, minus the fraction that is
    >>used up in causing glycation damage. It just happens a lot more slowly
    >>and in different relative proportions compared to non-diabetics.

    >
    >
    > not in type ones.
    >
    > once the BG goes above the renal thresh hold it spills into the urine
    > as the body tries to flush it out. Because of this the body is
    > removing water from the system and dehydrating itself. During that
    > dehydration the BG still in the blood stream becomes even more
    > concentrated do to the water loss.
    >
    > because of the lack of insulin, the body burns fat reserves rapidly
    > for energy. A by product is the release of ketones which also cross
    > the renal thresh hold after a certain point and have to be flushed by
    > the kidneys, thus speeding up the dehydration that is already in
    > progress. Thus concentrating the ketones still in the blood stream
    > due to the lack of water. making the blood chemistry extremely acidic
    > and toxic on an increasingly exponential rate.
    >
    > If left untreated, coma and then death can occur. But not before
    > extreme nausea, vomiting and abdominal and or muscle pain all over the
    > body, severe headache and difficulty breathing occur.
    >
    > The original poster was talking about reducing their insulin to induce
    > high BG for the purpose of weight loss. It is not safe or advisable.


    I was beginning to think I was the nly one who read what the OP said.
    Thankfully I wasn't.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19



  14. #14
    Beav Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how
    >> a
    >> new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?

    >
    >> And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    >> insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    >> have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    >> sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered
    >> out
    >> by kidneys and tossed away?

    >
    > The research suggests nearly the opposite: that a combination of high
    > BGs and high insulin causes a larger proportion of the sugars to be
    > deposited as fat.


    THe OP isn't talking about high BG's and high insulin levels, he's talking
    about high BG's and LOW levels of insulin. In other words he'll talking
    about a possible DKA incident.
    >
    > The sugars of high BG don't lie around stagnant. They are eventually
    > mopped up either by being burnt in muscles


    Not if there's insufficient insulin in circulation it doesn't.

    or deposited in liver and
    > muscle glycogen stores or deposited as fat, minus the fraction that is
    > used up in causing glycation damage.


    The "fraction"?


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19



  15. #15
    Priscilla Ballou Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    In article <ytYkh.16289$[email protected]>,
    "Beav" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]..
    > > Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how
    > >> a
    > >> new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?

    > >
    > >> And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    > >> insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    > >> have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    > >> sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered
    > >> out
    > >> by kidneys and tossed away?

    > >
    > > The research suggests nearly the opposite: that a combination of high
    > > BGs and high insulin causes a larger proportion of the sugars to be
    > > deposited as fat.

    >
    > THe OP isn't talking about high BG's and high insulin levels, he's talking
    > about high BG's and LOW levels of insulin. In other words he'll talking
    > about a possible DKA incident.
    > >
    > > The sugars of high BG don't lie around stagnant. They are eventually
    > > mopped up either by being burnt in muscles

    >
    > Not if there's insufficient insulin in circulation it doesn't.


    Insulin isn't needed for glucose to be used by muscles. That's why one
    may be able to lower BG by exercising.

    > or deposited in liver and
    > > muscle glycogen stores or deposited as fat, minus the fraction that is
    > > used up in causing glycation damage.

    >
    > The "fraction"?


    Priscilla

  16. #16
    Chris Malcolm Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    Beav <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Ma?k" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]..
    >> [Default] On 28 Dec 2006 17:10:01 GMT, Chris Malcolm
    >> <[email protected]> Giggled into the madness of usenet:
    >>
    >>>Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>> I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about
    >>>> how a
    >>>> new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?
    >>>
    >>>> And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    >>>> insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    >>>> have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    >>>> sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered
    >>>> out
    >>>> by kidneys and tossed away?
    >>>
    >>>The research suggests nearly the opposite: that a combination of high
    >>>BGs and high insulin causes a larger proportion of the sugars to be
    >>>deposited as fat.


    >>>The sugars of high BG don't lie around stagnant. They are eventually
    >>>mopped up either by being burnt in muscles or deposited in liver and
    >>>muscle glycogen stores or deposited as fat, minus the fraction that is
    >>>used up in causing glycation damage. It just happens a lot more slowly
    >>>and in different relative proportions compared to non-diabetics.


    >> not in type ones.
    >>
    >> once the BG goes above the renal thresh hold it spills into the urine
    >> as the body tries to flush it out. Because of this the body is
    >> removing water from the system and dehydrating itself. During that
    >> dehydration the BG still in the blood stream becomes even more
    >> concentrated do to the water loss.


    [snip]

    >> The original poster was talking about reducing their insulin to induce
    >> high BG for the purpose of weight loss. It is not safe or advisable.


    > I was beginning to think I was the nly one who read what the OP said.
    > Thankfully I wasn't.


    My apologies. I didn't think anyone could be so stupid as to be
    actually thinking of pulling a damaging death-defying stunt in pursuit
    of weight loss. I think I need to get out more, meet more people :-)

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]


  17. #17
    Chris Malcolm Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    Beav <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]..
    >> Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how
    >>> a
    >>> new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?

    >>
    >>> And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    >>> insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    >>> have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    >>> sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered
    >>> out
    >>> by kidneys and tossed away?

    >>
    >> The research suggests nearly the opposite: that a combination of high
    >> BGs and high insulin causes a larger proportion of the sugars to be
    >> deposited as fat.


    > THe OP isn't talking about high BG's and high insulin levels, he's talking
    > about high BG's and LOW levels of insulin. In other words he'll talking
    > about a possible DKA incident.
    >>
    >> The sugars of high BG don't lie around stagnant. They are eventually
    >> mopped up either by being burnt in muscles


    > Not if there's insufficient insulin in circulation it doesn't.


    Muscles don't need insulin to take up and burn glucose. The job of
    insulin is to deal with the surplus left over after the muscles have
    taken what what they need. Hence the importance of exercise.

    >> or deposited in liver and
    >> muscle glycogen stores or deposited as fat, minus the fraction that is
    >> used up in causing glycation damage.


    > The "fraction"?


    Well, if all your metabolic processes had stopped, which might be the
    case if you were dead, I guess the whole lot might end up causing
    glycation damage. It could take a long time, however.

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]


  18. #18
    rk Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    "Priscilla Ballou" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    : In article <ytYkh.16289$[email protected]>,
    : "Beav" <[email protected]> wrote:
    :
    : > "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    : > news:[email protected]..
    : > > Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:
    : > >> I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about
    how
    : > >> a
    : > >> new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?
    : > >
    : > >> And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use
    less
    : > >> insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars
    that
    : > >> have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens
    to
    : > >> sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get
    filtered
    : > >> out
    : > >> by kidneys and tossed away?
    : > >
    : > > The research suggests nearly the opposite: that a combination of high
    : > > BGs and high insulin causes a larger proportion of the sugars to be
    : > > deposited as fat.
    : >
    : > THe OP isn't talking about high BG's and high insulin levels, he's
    talking
    : > about high BG's and LOW levels of insulin. In other words he'll talking
    : > about a possible DKA incident.
    : > >
    : > > The sugars of high BG don't lie around stagnant. They are eventually
    : > > mopped up either by being burnt in muscles
    : >
    : > Not if there's insufficient insulin in circulation it doesn't.
    :
    : Insulin isn't needed for glucose to be used by muscles. That's why one
    : may be able to lower BG by exercising.

    Wrong. Insulin is needed by the muscles, otherwise every T1 would be
    able to just exercise our little arses off everyday and not need insulin.
    This
    is also why a T1 MUST test for ketones prior to exercise if their glucose is
    over 240mg/dL otherwise a T1 has a high risk of driving themselves into
    DKA. I found this out from first hand experience.

    :
    : > or deposited in liver and
    : > > muscle glycogen stores or deposited as fat, minus the fraction that is
    : > > used up in causing glycation damage.
    : >
    : > The "fraction"?
    :
    : Priscilla



  19. #19
    Nicky Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "rk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > Wrong. Insulin is needed by the muscles, otherwise every T1 would be
    > able to just exercise our little arses off everyday and not need insulin.


    That's how they used to do it... along with a zero carb diet - you could
    keep yourself alive for a long time doing it that way. Not recommended if
    you value any quality of life at all, of course...

    Nicky.

    --
    A1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
    100ug Thyroxine
    95/72/72Kg



  20. #20
    rk Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    "Nicky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    :
    : "rk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    : news:[email protected]..
    : > Wrong. Insulin is needed by the muscles, otherwise every T1 would be
    : > able to just exercise our little arses off everyday and not need
    insulin.
    :
    : That's how they used to do it... along with a zero carb diet - you could
    : keep yourself alive for a long time doing it that way. Not recommended if
    : you value any quality of life at all, of course...
    :
    : Nicky.
    :
    : --
    : A1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
    : 100ug Thyroxine
    : 95/72/72Kg
    :

    Yes that is how they used to do it, but the T1's didn't live very long at
    all and
    the person was VERY ILL, I'm sure they threw up on a daily basis along with
    severe muscle cramping. Unless you've been through DKA you have NO idea
    what utter misery it is. I would rather have the common flu then DKA any
    day of the week. After a few hours you're begging to die! I know, I've
    been
    there done that four times in the past 6 yrs.

    RK

    :



  21. #21
    [email protected] Guest

    Default Anorexia, DKA, and skipping shots (was Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss)

    Chris Malcolm wrote:
    > My apologies. I didn't think anyone could be so stupid as to be
    > actually thinking of pulling a damaging death-defying stunt in pursuit
    > of weight loss. I think I need to get out more, meet more people :-)


    It occurs commonly enough that the medical textbooks warn physicians
    that if a diabetic teenage girl seems to be having frequent episodes of
    DKA, that it would be good to further investigate whether she is
    intentionally inducing DKA by skipping her shots in order to lose
    weight.

    I've seen it in mentioned in mass-market diabetes books too.

    Googling "eating disorders ketoacidosis type 1" turns up thousands of
    hits, ranging from Wikipedia to medical papers.

    Tim.


  22. #22
    Saxology Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Priscilla Ballou" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:vze23t8n-
    <snip>
    > Insulin isn't needed for glucose to be used by muscles. That's why one
    > may be able to lower BG by exercising.

    <smip>
    > Priscilla


    This is my primary control mechanism. I can eat some carbs only on days
    where I work for many hours at a strenuous job. But, the result has been
    lowered metabolism..... cold fingers, nose, etc. I want to stimulate the
    internal burning while keeping BG's in check. Struggling with how to do
    that.
    -Sax



  23. #23
    Saxology Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    <snip>
    >
    > THe OP isn't talking about high BG's and high insulin levels, he's talking
    > about high BG's and LOW levels of insulin. In other words he'll talking
    > about a possible DKA incident.

    <snip>

    No, not what my intention was.

    It's more of a chicken/egg thought. Which came first, the sugar or the
    hormone? Maybe we all (T2) had high insulin from the start (not alot high,
    but high for the purposes of our bodies). This made our cells react and
    resist the condition and caused fat stores. So, wouldn't a lower level of
    insulin be the correction? I am not talking about skipping insulin and
    drinking 50 sugared sodas per day to lose weight. I am talking on a much
    finer scale where the difference between control/weight gain/loss is small.
    -Sax



  24. #24
    rk Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    "Saxology" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:Zpflh.8449$[email protected] .net...
    :
    : <snip>
    : >
    : > THe OP isn't talking about high BG's and high insulin levels, he's
    talking
    : > about high BG's and LOW levels of insulin. In other words he'll talking
    : > about a possible DKA incident.
    : <snip>
    :
    : No, not what my intention was.
    :
    : It's more of a chicken/egg thought. Which came first, the sugar or the
    : hormone? Maybe we all (T2) had high insulin from the start (not alot
    high,
    : but high for the purposes of our bodies). This made our cells react and
    : resist the condition and caused fat stores. So, wouldn't a lower level of
    : insulin be the correction? I am not talking about skipping insulin and
    : drinking 50 sugared sodas per day to lose weight. I am talking on a much
    : finer scale where the difference between control/weight gain/loss is
    small.
    : -Sax
    :

    If thats the case then you need a oral anti-resistant medication to help
    knock
    down the high insulin levels or continue to exercise your tushy off. Are
    you
    a T2 or T1? That would also help if you identified your type for better
    help.

    RK, t1 pumper
    :



  25. #25
    Saxology Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected] ups.com...
    > Saxology wrote:
    >> I keep seeing that Insulin cuases weight gain and loss... different
    >> things
    >> at different times. Do you take insulin to allow more energy use in the
    >> body and burn more calories or... do you use less to cause your body to
    >> throw them away?

    >
    > Well, I take it so I don't die. I take it you weren't diagnosed in DKA
    > coma :-).


    I was damn close.... weight loss was great but I drank 15-20 gallons of
    liquid/day.... thought my pee-too was gonna fall off!

    >
    >> Lately my metabolism has slowed (I think). I am cold (nose fingers, etc)
    >> when I used to be always "hot".

    >
    > Thyroid levels? TSH? Do you see an endocrinologist? Endos like to treat
    > hypothyroidism, and you just named some vague symptoms.
    >
    > Tim.
    >


    I'll have to get it checked....
    -Sax



  26. #26
    Priscilla Ballou Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    In article <4sflh.8450$[email protected] net>,
    "Saxology" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Priscilla Ballou" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:vze23t8n-
    > <snip>
    > > Insulin isn't needed for glucose to be used by muscles. That's why one
    > > may be able to lower BG by exercising.

    > <smip>
    > > Priscilla

    >
    > This is my primary control mechanism. I can eat some carbs only on days
    > where I work for many hours at a strenuous job. But, the result has been
    > lowered metabolism..... cold fingers, nose, etc. I want to stimulate the
    > internal burning while keeping BG's in check. Struggling with how to do
    > that.
    > -Sax


    I think you'll have to focus on finding different grandparents. May I
    borrow the time machine when you're done with it?

    Priscilla

  27. #27
    Chris Malcolm Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Priscilla Ballou" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:vze23t8n-
    > <snip>
    >> Insulin isn't needed for glucose to be used by muscles. That's why one
    >> may be able to lower BG by exercising.

    > <smip>
    >> Priscilla


    > This is my primary control mechanism. I can eat some carbs only on days
    > where I work for many hours at a strenuous job. But, the result has been
    > lowered metabolism..... cold fingers, nose, etc. I want to stimulate the
    > internal burning while keeping BG's in check. Struggling with how to do
    > that.


    You may be able to increase your metabolic rate by cold
    adaptation. You acquire that by working strenuously enough in cold
    conditions that despite wearing few clothes you end up
    sweating. Because of central heating, cars, etc., few of us nowadays
    acquire the cold adaptation that was once a natural consequence of
    winter.

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]


  28. #28
    Beav Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..

    > [snip]
    >
    >>> The original poster was talking about reducing their insulin to induce
    >>> high BG for the purpose of weight loss. It is not safe or advisable.

    >
    >> I was beginning to think I was the nly one who read what the OP said.
    >> Thankfully I wasn't.

    >
    > My apologies. I didn't think anyone could be so stupid as to be
    > actually thinking of pulling a damaging death-defying stunt in pursuit
    > of weight loss.


    It's VERY popular among the Posh Spice wannabee's and the yoof in general.

    I think I need to get out more, meet more people :-)

    But none of those, they'll give you idea's :-)


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19



  29. #29
    Beav Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Priscilla Ballou" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > In article <4sflh.8450$[email protected] net>,
    > "Saxology" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> "Priscilla Ballou" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:vze23t8n-
    >> <snip>
    >> > Insulin isn't needed for glucose to be used by muscles. That's why one
    >> > may be able to lower BG by exercising.

    >> <smip>
    >> > Priscilla

    >>
    >> This is my primary control mechanism. I can eat some carbs only on days
    >> where I work for many hours at a strenuous job. But, the result has been
    >> lowered metabolism..... cold fingers, nose, etc. I want to stimulate the
    >> internal burning while keeping BG's in check. Struggling with how to do
    >> that.
    >> -Sax

    >
    > I think you'll have to focus on finding different grandparents. May I
    > borrow the time machine when you're done with it?


    Yeah, and you can use it to go back in time and talk to Fred Banting. He MAY
    be able to explain why insulin is required in simple enough terms that
    you'll understand.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19



  30. #30
    Beav Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Saxology" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:4sflh.8450$[email protected] ink.net...
    >
    > "Priscilla Ballou" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:vze23t8n-
    > <snip>
    >> Insulin isn't needed for glucose to be used by muscles. That's why one
    >> may be able to lower BG by exercising.

    > <smip>
    >> Priscilla

    >
    > This is my primary control mechanism.


    You're not a T1 then.

    I can eat some carbs only on days
    > where I work for many hours at a strenuous job.


    You'd not be able to if you were a T1. T2's usually have FAR more insulin
    than a non diabetic circulating, so the problems of DKA don't exist for you.
    If they did, you'd soon see the error of exercising when you're BG is high
    and you've insufficient insulin motoring around.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19



  31. #31
    Beav Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Priscilla Ballou" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > In article <ytYkh.16289$[email protected]>,
    > "Beav" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]..
    >> > Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >> I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about
    >> >> how
    >> >> a
    >> >> new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?
    >> >
    >> >> And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use
    >> >> less
    >> >> insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars
    >> >> that
    >> >> have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens
    >> >> to
    >> >> sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered
    >> >> out
    >> >> by kidneys and tossed away?
    >> >
    >> > The research suggests nearly the opposite: that a combination of high
    >> > BGs and high insulin causes a larger proportion of the sugars to be
    >> > deposited as fat.

    >>
    >> THe OP isn't talking about high BG's and high insulin levels, he's
    >> talking
    >> about high BG's and LOW levels of insulin. In other words he'll talking
    >> about a possible DKA incident.
    >> >
    >> > The sugars of high BG don't lie around stagnant. They are eventually
    >> > mopped up either by being burnt in muscles

    >>
    >> Not if there's insufficient insulin in circulation it doesn't.

    >
    > Insulin isn't needed for glucose to be used by muscles. That's why one
    > may be able to lower BG by exercising.


    You are a ****ing liability to yourself, but PLEASE don't post your bollocks
    on here for others to read. The ONLY "muscle" that doesn't need insulin is,
    I believe, the brain, but of course, you don't have one of those.

    If you were a T1 with high BG and no insulin who exercised, you'd find
    yourself waking up either ion hospital, or dead. THAT'S how good exerise is
    at lowering BG's when there's no enough insulin circulating. Go and read up
    about this ****ing disease before you post more wank juice.



    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19



  32. #32
    Beav Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > Beav <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]..
    >>> Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>> I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about
    >>>> how
    >>>> a
    >>>> new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?
    >>>
    >>>> And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use
    >>>> less
    >>>> insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars
    >>>> that
    >>>> have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens
    >>>> to
    >>>> sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered
    >>>> out
    >>>> by kidneys and tossed away?
    >>>
    >>> The research suggests nearly the opposite: that a combination of high
    >>> BGs and high insulin causes a larger proportion of the sugars to be
    >>> deposited as fat.

    >
    >> THe OP isn't talking about high BG's and high insulin levels, he's
    >> talking
    >> about high BG's and LOW levels of insulin. In other words he'll talking
    >> about a possible DKA incident.
    >>>
    >>> The sugars of high BG don't lie around stagnant. They are eventually
    >>> mopped up either by being burnt in muscles

    >
    >> Not if there's insufficient insulin in circulation it doesn't.

    >
    > Muscles don't need insulin to take up and burn glucose. The job of
    > insulin is to deal with the surplus left over after the muscles have
    > taken what what they need. Hence the importance of exercise.


    More ****ing bull**** is spewed here than ANY other place on the net by
    people like you. Do some ****ing research you waste of oxygen. Insulin is
    the key that allows the glucose receptors to accept glucose in... guess
    what??? Correct, the ****ing MUSCLES. Without it, the muscles ****ing die.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19




  33. #33
    Beav Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Saxology" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:Zpflh.8449$[email protected] .net...
    >
    > <snip>
    >>
    >> THe OP isn't talking about high BG's and high insulin levels, he's
    >> talking about high BG's and LOW levels of insulin. In other words he'll
    >> talking about a possible DKA incident.

    > <snip>
    >
    > No, not what my intention was.
    >
    > It's more of a chicken/egg thought. Which came first, the sugar or the
    > hormone? Maybe we all (T2) had high insulin from the start (not alot
    > high, but high for the purposes of our bodies). This made our cells react
    > and resist the condition and caused fat stores. So, wouldn't a lower
    > level of insulin be the correction?


    As it wouldn't address the resistance to insulin, no, it'd be entirely
    inappropriate.

    I am not talking about skipping insulin and
    > drinking 50 sugared sodas per day to lose weight. I am talking on a much
    > finer scale where the difference between control/weight gain/loss is
    > small.


    A balancing act is already what it is, so yeah, more balance.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19



  34. #34
    Nicky Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:34:37 GMT, "Beav"
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >More ****ing bull**** is spewed here than ANY other place on the net by
    >people like you. Do some ****ing research you waste of oxygen. Insulin is
    >the key that allows the glucose receptors to accept glucose in... guess
    >what??? Correct, the ****ing MUSCLES. Without it, the muscles ****ing die.


    Uh, Beav -
    http://www.medbio.info/Horn/Time%203...t_proteins.htm

    "Note that muscle activity can increase the number of GLUT4 molecules
    in the plasma membrane through the same mechanism. Muscle activity
    and depletion of intracellular glucose alone (without increased
    insulin levels) activates glucose uptake. "

    This is what Priscilla and Chris were talking about.

    Nicky.
    T2 DX 05/2004
    A1c 5.5% BMI 25 D&E
    100ug Thyroxine

  35. #35
    Chris Malcolm Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    Nicky <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:34:37 GMT, "Beav"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:


    >>More ****ing bull**** is spewed here than ANY other place on the net by
    >>people like you. Do some ****ing research you waste of oxygen. Insulin is
    >>the key that allows the glucose receptors to accept glucose in... guess
    >>what??? Correct, the ****ing MUSCLES. Without it, the muscles ****ing die.


    > Uh, Beav -
    > http://www.medbio.info/Horn/Time%203...t_proteins.htm


    > "Note that muscle activity can increase the number of GLUT4 molecules
    > in the plasma membrane through the same mechanism. Muscle activity
    > and depletion of intracellular glucose alone (without increased
    > insulin levels) activates glucose uptake. "


    Which results in what is often referred to in the literature as
    insulin-independent glucose transport into the muscles. That means
    extra glucose transport from blood into muscle which doesn't need
    extra insulin; independence of change in insulin levels, not
    independent of the presence of insulin.

    > This is what Priscilla and Chris were talking about.


    Exactly. This is another of those cases where the difference between
    T2s and T1s matters. T1s have no insulin unless they inject it. If
    they don't inject it they have none. Whereas T2s, until the very late
    stage of total destruction of the beta cells of the pancreas, always
    have some insulin in circulation. Hence changes in insulin
    sensitivity, such as can be caused be caused by exercise, will
    increase the uptake of glucose by the muscles without requiring any
    change in blood insulin levels. This is a large effect which is very
    useful in blood glucose level control. Hence T2s who haven't lost all
    their beta cells can safely rely on a kind of insulin-independent
    exercise-induced glucose transport into the muscles which T1s can't.

    A great deal of the stupid arguments in this newsgroup are due to T1s
    frothing at the mouth when someone discussing a T2 problem makes a
    comment about diabetics (meaning T2s) which is not true for T1s, or
    offers advice in a T2 context which would be dangerous for a T1, and
    vice versa.

    It would help a lot if before flying off the handle folk would
    ask themselves whether the offensive nonsense they're just about
    toast might not actually be true in some sense for the other kind of
    diabetic.

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]


  36. #36
    Mak Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    [Default] On 29 Dec 2006 10:45:23 GMT, Chris Malcolm
    <[email protected]> Giggled into the madness of usenet:

    >Beav <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]..
    >>> Saxology <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>> I was listening to the radio and there was a partial news thing about how
    >>>> a
    >>>> new insulin causes weight loss. Has anyone read anything about this?
    >>>
    >>>> And, on weight loss.... I am starting to feel that higher BG's (use less
    >>>> insulin) is better for weight loss as the body can't use the sugars that
    >>>> have been produced. What I can't seem to understand is: what happens to
    >>>> sugars when left untreated/absorbed... do they eventually get filtered
    >>>> out
    >>>> by kidneys and tossed away?
    >>>
    >>> The research suggests nearly the opposite: that a combination of high
    >>> BGs and high insulin causes a larger proportion of the sugars to be
    >>> deposited as fat.

    >
    >> THe OP isn't talking about high BG's and high insulin levels, he's talking
    >> about high BG's and LOW levels of insulin. In other words he'll talking
    >> about a possible DKA incident.
    >>>
    >>> The sugars of high BG don't lie around stagnant. They are eventually
    >>> mopped up either by being burnt in muscles

    >
    >> Not if there's insufficient insulin in circulation it doesn't.

    >
    >Muscles don't need insulin to take up and burn glucose. The job of
    >insulin is to deal with the surplus left over after the muscles have
    >taken what what they need. Hence the importance of exercise.
    >


    if there is a lack of insulin, exercise of any kind is going to damn
    near impossible.

    --
    Mck Deltec CoZmore Pumper
    Type 1 since 1975
    http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
    http://www.diabetic-talk.org
    http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
    http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the
    President, or that we are to stand by the President
    right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
    but is morally treasonable to the American public."
    ....Theodore Roosevelt

    (o )
    --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

    "I don't know half of you
    half as well as I should like;
    and I like less than half of you
    half as well as you deserve."
    ....Bilbo Baggins


    DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
    ..




  37. #37
    Mak Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    [Default] On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 21:04:57 GMT, "Saxology"
    <[email protected]> Giggled into the madness of usenet:

    >
    ><snip>
    >>
    >> THe OP isn't talking about high BG's and high insulin levels, he's talking
    >> about high BG's and LOW levels of insulin. In other words he'll talking
    >> about a possible DKA incident.

    ><snip>
    >
    >No, not what my intention was.
    >
    >It's more of a chicken/egg thought. Which came first, the sugar or the
    >hormone? Maybe we all (T2) had high insulin from the start (not alot high,
    >but high for the purposes of our bodies). This made our cells react and
    >resist the condition and caused fat stores. So, wouldn't a lower level of
    >insulin be the correction? I am not talking about skipping insulin and
    >drinking 50 sugared sodas per day to lose weight. I am talking on a much
    >finer scale where the difference between control/weight gain/loss is small.
    >-Sax
    >



    just how is a type 2 supposed to lower their natural insulin
    production?

    1 lower their carb load.
    2. exercise.
    3. for some in the beginning, actually inject insulin.

    --
    Mck Deltec CoZmore Pumper
    Type 1 since 1975
    http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
    http://www.diabetic-talk.org
    http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
    http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the
    President, or that we are to stand by the President
    right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
    but is morally treasonable to the American public."
    ....Theodore Roosevelt

    (o )
    --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

    "I don't know half of you
    half as well as I should like;
    and I like less than half of you
    half as well as you deserve."
    ....Bilbo Baggins


    DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
    ..




  38. #38
    Beav Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
    news:thggp25c7g69n7f7ptbktheti09us7nrik@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:34:37 GMT, "Beav"
    > <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote:
    >>More ****ing bull**** is spewed here than ANY other place on the net by
    >>people like you. Do some ****ing research you waste of oxygen. Insulin is
    >>the key that allows the glucose receptors to accept glucose in... guess
    >>what??? Correct, the ****ing MUSCLES. Without it, the muscles ****ing die.

    >
    > Uh, Beav -
    > http://www.medbio.info/Horn/Time%203...t_proteins.htm
    >
    > "Note that muscle activity can increase the number of GLUT4 molecules
    > in the plasma membrane through the same mechanism. Muscle activity
    > and depletion of intracellular glucose alone (without increased
    > insulin levels) activates glucose uptake. "
    >
    > This is what Priscilla and Chris were talking about.


    No it's not. The OP was talking about using LESS insulin than the optimum
    and losing weight as a result. THAT is a typical T1 thing, not a T2 and
    Chris and Priscilla are talking about T2's reaction to lowered insulin
    levels.. We KNOW T2's have more insulin than they need, but are resistant to
    it. If they reduce their insulin input (by injection) then they still have
    enough insulin to allow glucose to enter the muscles, so of course, the
    exercise will speed up BG lowering.

    It most certainly WON'T for a T1.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19





  39. #39
    Beav Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss


    "Chris Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
    news:4vsccgF1ds5avU1@mid.individual.net...
    > Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote:
    >> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:34:37 GMT, "Beav"
    >> <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote:

    >
    >>>More ****ing bull**** is spewed here than ANY other place on the net by
    >>>people like you. Do some ****ing research you waste of oxygen. Insulin is
    >>>the key that allows the glucose receptors to accept glucose in... guess
    >>>what??? Correct, the ****ing MUSCLES. Without it, the muscles ****ing
    >>>die.

    >
    >> Uh, Beav -
    >> http://www.medbio.info/Horn/Time%203...t_proteins.htm

    >
    >> "Note that muscle activity can increase the number of GLUT4 molecules
    >> in the plasma membrane through the same mechanism. Muscle activity
    >> and depletion of intracellular glucose alone (without increased
    >> insulin levels) activates glucose uptake. "

    >
    > Which results in what is often referred to in the literature as
    > insulin-independent glucose transport into the muscles. That means
    > extra glucose transport from blood into muscle which doesn't need
    > extra insulin; independence of change in insulin levels, not
    > independent of the presence of insulin.
    >
    >> This is what Priscilla and Chris were talking about.

    >
    > Exactly. This is another of those cases where the difference between
    > T2s and T1s matters. T1s have no insulin unless they inject it. If
    > they don't inject it they have none. Whereas T2s, until the very late
    > stage of total destruction of the beta cells of the pancreas, always
    > have some insulin in circulation. Hence changes in insulin
    > sensitivity, such as can be caused be caused by exercise, will
    > increase the uptake of glucose by the muscles without requiring any
    > change in blood insulin levels. This is a large effect which is very
    > useful in blood glucose level control. Hence T2s who haven't lost all
    > their beta cells can safely rely on a kind of insulin-independent
    > exercise-induced glucose transport into the muscles which T1s can't.
    >
    > A great deal of the stupid arguments in this newsgroup are due to T1s
    > frothing at the mouth when someone discussing a T2 problem makes a
    > comment about diabetics (meaning T2s) which is not true for T1s, or
    > offers advice in a T2 context which would be dangerous for a T1, and
    > vice versa.


    So the OP is a what? T1 or T2? His idea of reducing insulin to loose weight
    by not taking "as much" insulin would ONLY work for a T1, (not that it's a
    good thing) so that's why I weighed in on the thread. If he's a T2, it's not
    going to cause any weight loss unless he works his bollocks off with
    exercise.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19



  40. #40
    Mak Guest

    Default Re: New Insulin Causes Weight Loss

    [Default] On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 23:35:46 GMT, "Beav"
    <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> Giggled into the madness of usenet:

    >
    >"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
    >news:thggp25c7g69n7f7ptbktheti09us7nrik@4ax.com.. .
    >> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:34:37 GMT, "Beav"
    >> <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote:
    >>>More ****ing bull**** is spewed here than ANY other place on the net by
    >>>people like you. Do some ****ing research you waste of oxygen. Insulin is
    >>>the key that allows the glucose receptors to accept glucose in... guess
    >>>what??? Correct, the ****ing MUSCLES. Without it, the muscles ****ing die.

    >>
    >> Uh, Beav -
    >> http://www.medbio.info/Horn/Time%203...t_proteins.htm
    >>
    >> "Note that muscle activity can increase the number of GLUT4 molecules
    >> in the plasma membrane through the same mechanism. Muscle activity
    >> and depletion of intracellular glucose alone (without increased
    >> insulin levels) activates glucose uptake. "
    >>
    >> This is what Priscilla and Chris were talking about.

    >
    >No it's not. The OP was talking about using LESS insulin than the optimum
    >and losing weight as a result. THAT is a typical T1 thing, not a T2 and
    >Chris and Priscilla are talking about T2's reaction to lowered insulin
    >levels.. We KNOW T2's have more insulin than they need, but are resistant to
    >it. If they reduce their insulin input (by injection) then they still have
    >enough insulin to allow glucose to enter the muscles, so of course, the
    >exercise will speed up BG lowering.
    >
    >It most certainly WON'T for a T1.



    Beav is correct.

    please not, that if the type 2 is injecting insulin and they stop or
    lower their dose, thinking this will lower their insulin level over
    all, they will probably find that their natural insulin
    production(which they are the most resistant to) is going to increase.

    --
    Mck Deltec CoZmore Pumper
    Type 1 since 1975
    http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
    http://www.diabetic-talk.org
    http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
    http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the
    President, or that we are to stand by the President
    right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
    but is morally treasonable to the American public."
    ....Theodore Roosevelt

    (o )
    --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

    "I don't know half of you
    half as well as I should like;
    and I like less than half of you
    half as well as you deserve."
    ....Bilbo Baggins


    DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
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