Old thinking?

Haven't posted in a few months. For anyone who remembers, I was
struggling and had plateaued at about 200. In early May I started
insulin and have been making adjustments, learning comsations, etc.,
and my numbers are now averaging about 140-150 post-meal. I'll update
more on that later as I have some questions, but I have a specific
question now I'd like to get some feedback on.

My son, who is 18 and thinks he knows *everything*, is upset because of
my "sudden" increase from zero shots/day to four shots/day. This
scares him, and I understand that, but he is convinced it's 'too
drastic' and is cause for concern. I have told him the standard
medical party line about how it's a progressive desease, the number of
shots is irrelevant, you're just replacing insulin in your body, etc.,
and he's not buying it.

Here's the rub... in spite of what the medical establishment is saying
on this subject, I'm not sure I buy it, either. Top be honest, there's
a part of me that feels they're spinning things to keep people from
being upset, and that it is more of a 'big deal' than they want to let
on. Trying to head off hysteria, if you will.

The taking of shots still has that public perception of "bad". Am I
wrong? Is this 'old thinking'? Outdated misconceptions?

FWIW: I feel a hell of alot better now that my numbers are reasonable
again, though I would still prefer a tad lower, so I know it can't be
all bad.

Oh, I'm T2, btw. Still taking Metformin, also, in addition to the
insuilin.

Dave, all children at 18 think they know everything. If you are on
insulin and type II why do you still have to take metformin.?

Also, has any doctor discussed using byetta instead of insulin?

Loretta

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:22:55 +0000, TheDave© wrote:

> Haven't posted in a few months. For anyone who remembers, I was
> struggling and had plateaued at about 200. In early May I started
> insulin and have been making adjustments, learning comsations, etc.,
> and my numbers are now averaging about 140-150 post-meal. I'll update
> more on that later as I have some questions, but I have a specific
> question now I'd like to get some feedback on.
>
> My son, who is 18 and thinks he knows *everything*, is upset because of
> my "sudden" increase from zero shots/day to four shots/day. This
> scares him, and I understand that, but he is convinced it's 'too
> drastic' and is cause for concern. I have told him the standard
> medical party line about how it's a progressive desease, the number of
> shots is irrelevant, you're just replacing insulin in your body, etc.,
> and he's not buying it.
>
> Here's the rub... in spite of what the medical establishment is saying
> on this subject, I'm not sure I buy it, either. Top be honest, there's
> a part of me that feels they're spinning things to keep people from
> being upset, and that it is more of a 'big deal' than they want to let
> on. Trying to head off hysteria, if you will.
>
> The taking of shots still has that public perception of "bad". Am I
> wrong? Is this 'old thinking'? Outdated misconceptions?
>
> FWIW: I feel a hell of alot better now that my numbers are reasonable
> again, though I would still prefer a tad lower, so I know it can't be
> all bad.
>
> Oh, I'm T2, btw. Still taking Metformin, also, in addition to the
> insuilin.

I'd be interested to know if you've also started an exercise regime and
modified your diet. In my brief experience (two years) it seems to take at
least two of {diet, exercise, medication} and often all three to regain
control.

I also question the 'party line' that diabetes is a grogressive disease. I
think if you do your damnedest to control, that is probably not
necessarily so. - Obviously I'll have a better handle on that in several
years

TheDave? <no@no.com> wrote:
: Haven't posted in a few months. For anyone who remembers, I was
: struggling and had plateaued at about 200. In early May I started
: insulin and have been making adjustments, learning comsations, etc.,
: and my numbers are now averaging about 140-150 post-meal. I'll update
: more on that later as I have some questions, but I have a specific
: question now I'd like to get some feedback on.

: My son, who is 18 and thinks he knows *everything*, is upset because of
: my "sudden" increase from zero shots/day to four shots/day. This
: scares him, and I understand that, but he is convinced it's 'too
: drastic' and is cause for concern. I have told him the standard
: medical party line about how it's a progressive desease, the number of
: shots is irrelevant, you're just replacing insulin in your body, etc.,
: and he's not buying it.

: Here's the rub... in spite of what the medical establishment is saying
: on this subject, I'm not sure I buy it, either. Top be honest, there's
: a part of me that feels they're spinning things to keep people from
: being upset, and that it is more of a 'big deal' than they want to let
: on. Trying to head off hysteria, if you will.

: The taking of shots still has that public perception of "bad". Am I
: wrong? Is this 'old thinking'? Outdated misconceptions?

: FWIW: I feel a hell of alot better now that my numbers are reasonable
: again, though I would still prefer a tad lower, so I know it can't be
: all bad.

: Oh, I'm T2, btw. Still taking Metformin, also, in addition to the
: insuilin.

In the old days when insulins were more limited and there were no bg
testing meters, only urine tests, people often took on eor two shots a
day, but now that we hae al kinds of information available we can adjust
adn fine tune insulin levels to what we eat, not just eat to what we
shoot. I ws on insulin 20 years ago for typse 2, as my GP got scared and
put me on it immediately I am not on it now, but I then took one shot of
22 units of lente in the morning. After I lost 60+ pounds I no longer
needed the insulin. Now you take basals and boluses adn take smaller does
more frequently to eal with the mealtimes, etc. It is a totally different
regemin, but does not mean you are "worse" than I was 20 yers ago when I
took one shot a day and winged it.

Wendy

Dave

the modern insulins come in a basal/bolus basis

the basal or background insulin of Levemir or Lantus can NOT be mixed with
your bolus insulin...... there is 1 shot, simply for being alive today

then we take a bolus insulin to correct high bg levels and to cover for
meals........ i eat 3 meals a day...... that means 3 more shots a
day......... on the days i skip lunch, it means 2 more shots rather than 3
shots a day

does this make more sense as to why you are taking 4 shots of insulin a
day??
it doesn't mean that 'your diabetes is really bad' or any of those silly
myths that people love to come up with

we simply take what insulin we need in a day......... that's all

show this to your son and if he has more questions, we'll be happy to answer
them for him

"TheDave©" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:31cmi.501964$JN6.223806@newsfe17.phx...
> Haven't posted in a few months. For anyone who remembers, I was
> struggling and had plateaued at about 200. In early May I started
> insulin and have been making adjustments, learning comsations, etc.,
> and my numbers are now averaging about 140-150 post-meal. I'll update
> more on that later as I have some questions, but I have a specific
> question now I'd like to get some feedback on.
>
> My son, who is 18 and thinks he knows *everything*, is upset because of
> my "sudden" increase from zero shots/day to four shots/day. This
> scares him, and I understand that, but he is convinced it's 'too
> drastic' and is cause for concern. I have told him the standard
> medical party line about how it's a progressive desease, the number of
> shots is irrelevant, you're just replacing insulin in your body, etc.,
> and he's not buying it.
>
> Here's the rub... in spite of what the medical establishment is saying
> on this subject, I'm not sure I buy it, either. Top be honest, there's
> a part of me that feels they're spinning things to keep people from
> being upset, and that it is more of a 'big deal' than they want to let
> on. Trying to head off hysteria, if you will.
>
> The taking of shots still has that public perception of "bad". Am I
> wrong? Is this 'old thinking'? Outdated misconceptions?
>
> FWIW: I feel a hell of alot better now that my numbers are reasonable
> again, though I would still prefer a tad lower, so I know it can't be
> all bad.
>
> Oh, I'm T2, btw. Still taking Metformin, also, in addition to the
> insuilin.
>
>
>

On Jul 14, 3:46 pm, sassybklynl...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg)
wrote:
> Dave, all children at 18 think they know everything. If you are on
> insulin and type II why do you still have to take metformin.?
>
> Also, has any doctor discussed using byetta instead of insulin?
>
> Loretta

I also take Metformin along with the insulin. The reason I do is
because it helps me control my appetite, and it does make my insulin
doses a little lower (not much), but controlling the appetite is a
very, very good thing. Insulin use does tend to cause weight gain, so
anything I can do to combat that is good.

KC

TheDave(c) wrote:
> Haven't posted in a few months. For anyone who remembers, I was
> struggling and had plateaued at about 200. In early May I started
> insulin and have been making adjustments, learning comsations, etc.,
> and my numbers are now averaging about 140-150 post-meal. I'll update
> more on that later as I have some questions, but I have a specific
> question now I'd like to get some feedback on.
>
> My son, who is 18 and thinks he knows *everything*, is upset because of
> my "sudden" increase from zero shots/day to four shots/day. This
> scares him, and I understand that, but he is convinced it's 'too
> drastic' and is cause for concern. I have told him the standard
> medical party line about how it's a progressive desease, the number of
> shots is irrelevant, you're just replacing insulin in your body, etc.,
> and he's not buying it.

Sometimes having to take shots every day pushes the people we care
about over-the-edge in how they have to think about us. They've known
us all our lives when we didn't have to do that... maybe they think
that this change is a change for the worse and a sign of inevitable
decline, a sign they didn't recognize before. So it gets all wrapped
up in symbology and people we care about instead of being perpetually
young and the perfect ideal, actually being people with real problems
who have to take care of them.

Of course, I went through this from the other end, when I was a kid,
so maybe I am flip-flopping some aspects of it around opposite from
your case.

> Here's the rub... in spite of what the medical establishment is saying
> on this subject, I'm not sure I buy it, either. Top be honest, there's
> a part of me that feels they're spinning things to keep people from
> being upset, and that it is more of a 'big deal' than they want to let
> on. Trying to head off hysteria, if you will.
>
> The taking of shots still has that public perception of "bad". Am I
> wrong? Is this 'old thinking'? Outdated misconceptions?

I outdated those misconceptions 26 years ago. I accepted pretty
quickly that if I didn't have those shots that I'd be dead. Now, home
bg testing, that was a true shocker for me, and I actually rebelled
against it off and on for a decade or so, and I still think some of my
attitudes (like "what good is testing if I don't know how to use the
numbers to make my life better?") rub others here the wrong way.

You know, someday they might cure this disease and I won't have to
take shots or maybe even check my bg anymore. That'll be a weird
feeling to me!

> FWIW: I feel a hell of alot better now that my numbers are reasonable
> again, though I would still prefer a tad lower, so I know it can't be
> all bad.

That's great news. It's a daily battle and sometimes I compare how I
feel today with how I felt yesterday, if it helps me believe that all
the work actually has a positive payoff. But realize that your son
might not be comparing you the week before to the week after shots,
but you taking shots to how you were a decade ago and didn't have to
take any shots.

Tim.

"Tim Shoppa" <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote in message
news:1184497535.691976.213580@d30g2000prg.googlegr oups.com...
> TheDave(c) wrote:
>> Haven't posted in a few months. For anyone who remembers, I was
>> struggling and had plateaued at about 200. In early May I started
>> insulin and have been making adjustments, learning comsations, etc.,
>> and my numbers are now averaging about 140-150 post-meal.
>>....
>> My son, who is 18 and thinks he knows *everything*, is upset because of
>> my "sudden" increase from zero shots/day to four shots/day. This
>> scares him, and I understand that, but he is convinced it's 'too
>> drastic' and is cause for concern. I have told him the standard
>> medical party line about how it's a progressive desease, the number of
>> shots is irrelevant, you're just replacing insulin in your body, etc.,
>> and he's not buying it.
>

How about telling him you went from "medicine/routine that wasn't working to
one that is." Would he be as upset if you changed any other medication to
get better results? e.g. if you took more or different pills (for anything,
not necessarily diabetes)? Or is it the fact that it's <gasp! gasp!> *shots*
that's bothering him the most?
And congratulations on your improvement.
bj

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:22:55 GMT, TheDave© <no@no.com> wrote:

>My son, who is 18 and thinks he knows *everything*, is upset because of
>my "sudden" increase from zero shots/day to four shots/day. This
>scares him, and I understand that, but he is convinced it's 'too
>drastic' and is cause for concern. I have told him the standard
>medical party line about how it's a progressive desease, the number of
>shots is irrelevant, you're just replacing insulin in your body, etc.,
>and he's not buying it.

Actually, 4x shots sounds a lot more modern thinking than one or two
pre-mixes... and going on insulin is not necessarily the end of the
story; it's possible you haven't progressed beyond the point of being
able to stop it after you've got good control. If you're on it for the
rest of your life, it's one hell of a lot better than lousy control,
opathies, and heart attack / stroke in your near future.

Tell your kid it's waaay better for your health...

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

> ray wrote:
> I'd be interested to know if you've also started an exercise regime
> and modified your diet. In my brief experience (two years) it seems
> to take at least two of {diet, exercise, medication} and often all
> three to regain control.

I have gotten my "bad" eating almost back under control. I had "fallen
off the boat" for awhile. My exercise isn't as consistent as it should
be, but I am active and working in that direction.

> I also question the 'party line' that diabetes is a grogressive
> disease. I think if you do your damnedest to control, that is
> probably not necessarily so. - Obviously I'll have a better handle on
> that in several years

The "party line" that I question most is the "carb is a carb" thing, as
I call it. The idea that all carbs are the same, one carb of ice cream
is the same as one carb of rice is the same as one carb of bread, and
so on. Yet my experience in 6+ years now is that certain foods spike
me more than others, and I have consistent experience to confirm that.

> Tiger Lily wrote:
> the modern insulins come in a basal/bolus basis
>
> the basal or background insulin of Levemir or Lantus can NOT be mixed
> with your bolus insulin...... there is 1 shot, simply for being alive
> today
>
> then we take a bolus insulin to correct high bg levels and to cover
> for meals........ i eat 3 meals a day...... that means 3 more shots a
> day......... on the days i skip lunch, it means 2 more shots rather
> than 3 shots a day
>
> does this make more sense as to why you are taking 4 shots of insulin
> a day??

Yes, I understand that part, how it works medically and all that. I'm
taking 1 shot of Lantus and 3 shots of Humalog per day, and it's
working. Along with a better diet, of course.

I guess where even I was questioning was the fact that before I didn't
need insulin, so by relative definition it's "worse" than it was. The
next step, so to speak.

> it doesn't mean that 'your diabetes is really bad' or any of
> those silly myths that people love to come up with
>
> we simply take what insulin we need in a day......... that's all

Overthinking, maybe? On my part, I mean.

> Loretta Eisenberg wrote:
> Also, has any doctor discussed using byetta instead of insulin?

I tried Byetta first. It helped, but that was where I plateaued at
around 200.

> Tim Shoppa wrote:
> > FWIW: I feel a hell of alot better now that my numbers are
> > reasonable again, though I would still prefer a tad lower, so I
> > know it can't be all bad.
>
> That's great news. It's a daily battle and sometimes I compare how I
> feel today with how I felt yesterday, if it helps me believe that all
> the work actually has a positive payoff. But realize that your son
> might not be comparing you the week before to the week after shots,
> but you taking shots to how you were a decade ago and didn't have to
> take any shots.

That makes alot of sense. He's also probably not factoring in the year
and a half where I "fell off the boat" and wasn't caring for myself
properly. I wasn't eating right, mostly. Really bad, in fact. I
think I took my then-control of it for granted. I believe that plays a
part in all this.

On Jul 15, 7:30 pm, TheDave? <n...@no.com> wrote:

>
> The "party line" that I question most is the "carb is a carb" thing, as
> I call it. The idea that all carbs are the same, one carb of ice cream
> is the same as one carb of rice is the same as one carb of bread, and
> so on. Yet my experience in 6+ years now is that certain foods spike
> me more than others, and I have consistent experience to confirm that.

I don't think a carb is a carb either. Besides how they spike, I have
also noticed other differences. I will notice that I get increased
neuropathy pain from eating starches even if I don't have a high blood
sugar. That does not happen if I eat fruit unless I get a high blood
sugar.

I have also found that starches will almost magically put weight on
me, and again not fruit.

KC