OT: Bacterium Gets Wheels Turning on Ethanol Fuel

This is interesting in that cellulose, but is the substance that makes
up cell walls in plants and that is very hard to digest can be turned
into ethanol by a bacteria. The human digestive system can not do this
very well, i.e., indigestible fiber. Could ethanol from corn be short
lived in the U.S. economy?

Excerpt:
"Bacterium Gets Wheels Turning on Ethanol Fuel

By Susan Kinzie and David A. Fahrenthold
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, March 10, 2008; Page B04

A strain of bacteria accidentally found in the Chesapeake Bay more than
20 years ago -- a bug that decomposes everything from algae to
newspapers to crab shells -- could help produce cheaper fuel, according
to scientists at the University of Maryland.

Gov. Martin O'Malley (D) will tout the work of professors Steven
Hutcheson and Ronald Weiner on campus today in announcing that Zymetis,
a U-Md. spin off company, will use the organism to generate ethanol.

The hope is that the bacterium can be used to produce ethanol more
efficiently and inexpensively and in effect recycle junk into energy.
The bacterium, which is very difficult to find in nature but easily
reproduced in the lab, has turned bench scientists into entrepreneurs."
http://tinyurl.com/2wjorf

Frank

Jefferson <fwroy@adelphia.netexopheno> wrote:
: This is interesting in that cellulose, but is the substance that makes
: up cell walls in plants and that is very hard to digest can be turned
: into ethanol by a bacteria. The human digestive system can not do this
: very well, i.e., indigestible fiber. Could ethanol from corn be short
: lived in the U.S. economy?

: Excerpt:
: "Bacterium Gets Wheels Turning on Ethanol Fuel
:
: By Susan Kinzie and David A. Fahrenthold
: Washington Post Staff Writers
: Monday, March 10, 2008; Page B04

: A strain of bacteria accidentally found in the Chesapeake Bay more than
: 20 years ago -- a bug that decomposes everything from algae to
: newspapers to crab shells -- could help produce cheaper fuel, according
: to scientists at the University of Maryland.

: Gov. Martin O'Malley (D) will tout the work of professors Steven
: Hutcheson and Ronald Weiner on campus today in announcing that Zymetis,
: a U-Md. spin off company, will use the organism to generate ethanol.

: The hope is that the bacterium can be used to produce ethanol more
: efficiently and inexpensively and in effect recycle junk into energy.
: The bacterium, which is very difficult to find in nature but easily
: reproduced in the lab, has turned bench scientists into entrepreneurs."
: http://tinyurl.com/2wjorf

: Frank

That would be a blessing as raising and transporting the corn to make the
ethanol uses a hugh amount of energy and fertilizer geerally from
petroleum. sing bacteria and fibrous waste parts of plants and grsses
would be a real boon!

Wendy

> Could ethanol from corn be short lived in the U.S. economy?

Gee, I doubt it. At least not for as long as Iowa gets to host the
opening rounds of the presidential primaries.

Look, Jefferson, fuel from corn is a terrible boondoggle and its
already mostly unmoored from the underlying science and economics.
Why would an improvement in that science have any effect on the
political decisions to push ethanol fuels?

Ob-diabetes: When the USSR broke up, Cuba's access to nearly-free
petroleum was cut. The government had to cut costs enormously,
including funding for health care. Did the Cubans' health suffer.?
Well, no. Actually, the effect of a collapsing economy was good for
their health; everyone had to walk everywhere and eat less.

Diabetes, in particular, became much less common, as the people could
no longer afford Cuba's abundant sugar. The Cuban lifespan improved.
In recent years, the economy has somewhat recovered, and the gains
made during the early 90's have reversed.

In the US, in the last year, per capita gasoline consumption has
dropped (slightly) as the price of gas has become (somewhat)
prohibitive. Do you think we may see an improvement in our diabetes
stats?

Adam Becker Sr

sphynx.red@gmail.com wrote:
>>Could ethanol from corn be short lived in the U.S. economy?
>
>
> Gee, I doubt it. At least not for as long as Iowa gets to host the
> opening rounds of the presidential primaries.
>
> Look, Jefferson, fuel from corn is a terrible boondoggle and its
> already mostly unmoored from the underlying science and economics.
> Why would an improvement in that science have any effect on the
> political decisions to push ethanol fuels?
>
The miles per gallon decreases on gasoline with ethanol added. Yet there
is a grocery store with a gas station that gives discounts for purchases
of groceries and drugs. Yesterday I filled the tank with 16 gallons and
it cost me nothing, but it is 15% ethanol.

Frank

sphynx.red@gmail.com wrote:
>> Could ethanol from corn be short lived in the U.S. economy?

> Gee, I doubt it. At least not for as long as Iowa gets to host the
> opening rounds of the presidential primaries.

> Look, Jefferson, fuel from corn is a terrible boondoggle and its
> already mostly unmoored from the underlying science and economics.
> Why would an improvement in that science have any effect on the
> political decisions to push ethanol fuels?

> Ob-diabetes: When the USSR broke up, Cuba's access to nearly-free
> petroleum was cut. The government had to cut costs enormously,
> including funding for health care. Did the Cubans' health suffer.?
> Well, no. Actually, the effect of a collapsing economy was good for
> their health; everyone had to walk everywhere and eat less.

> Diabetes, in particular, became much less common, as the people could
> no longer afford Cuba's abundant sugar. The Cuban lifespan improved.
> In recent years, the economy has somewhat recovered, and the gains
> made during the early 90's have reversed.

I'm reminded of the fact that when during and after WW2 Britain was
forced to use national food rationing the health of the population was
actually improved by being forced onto a more Spartan diet. I believe
that same observation was also made in other countries.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:40:21 -0400, Jefferson
<fwroy@adelphia.netexopheno> wrote:

>sphynx.red@gmail.com wrote:
>>>Could ethanol from corn be short lived in the U.S. economy?
>>
>>
>> Gee, I doubt it. At least not for as long as Iowa gets to host the
>> opening rounds of the presidential primaries.
>>
>> Look, Jefferson, fuel from corn is a terrible boondoggle and its
>> already mostly unmoored from the underlying science and economics.
>> Why would an improvement in that science have any effect on the
>> political decisions to push ethanol fuels?
>>
>The miles per gallon decreases on gasoline with ethanol added. Yet there
>is a grocery store with a gas station that gives discounts for purchases
>of groceries and drugs. Yesterday I filled the tank with 16 gallons and
>it cost me nothing, but it is 15% ethanol.

Meanwhile rapeseed oil (canola) is almost a substitute for diesel
without any processing . . .

. . . nice idea to turn garbage into fuel though, much like the old
hippies (and some farmers) and their methane digesters, with a more
usable fuel as the output.

sphynx.red@gmail.com wrote:

> Ob-diabetes: When the USSR broke up, Cuba's access to nearly-free
> petroleum was cut. The government had to cut costs enormously,
> including funding for health care. Did the Cubans' health suffer.?
> Well, no. Actually, the effect of a collapsing economy was good for
> their health; everyone had to walk everywhere and eat less.

> Diabetes, in particular, became much less common, as the people could
> no longer afford Cuba's abundant sugar. The Cuban lifespan improved.
> In recent years, the economy has somewhat recovered, and the gains
> made during the early 90's have reversed.

> In the US, in the last year, per capita gasoline consumption has
> dropped (slightly) as the price of gas has become (somewhat)
> prohibitive. Do you think we may see an improvement in our diabetes
> stats?

That probably depends on what choices people have. There are a number
of studies showing that in neighbourhoods which are designed (or
happen to have developed) in ways which encourage walking (e.g. local
shops within walking distance) that people walk more and are generally
healthier. More I think than any other nation the US houses a lot of
its population in environments very hostile to walking. It's going to
be more difficult and more expensive to get the US population walking
more than for most other countries.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Chris Malcolm wrote:
> That probably depends on what choices people have. There are a number
> of studies showing that in neighbourhoods which are designed (or
> happen to have developed) in ways which encourage walking (e.g. local
> shops within walking distance) that people walk more and are generally
> healthier. More I think than any other nation the US houses a lot of
> its population in environments very hostile to walking. It's going to
> be more difficult and more expensive to get the US population walking
> more than for most other countries.

Most older neighborhoods in the U.S. have mostly long straight streets
at right angles. But for a couple of decades, the trend has been to
make lots of curves and irregularities in residential areas to
discourage people from driving through. Interestingly, some people
feel that this also reduces walkability, by making walks longer and
making routes harder to remember.

http://walkscore.com is a very interesting site which gives you a
"walkability score" for your neighborhood.


--
Wes Groleau

I've noticed lately that the paranoid fear of computers becoming
intelligent and taking over the world has almost entirely disappeared
from the common culture. Near as I can tell, this coincides with
the release of MS-DOS.
-- Larry DeLuca

Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
> Chris Malcolm wrote:
>> That probably depends on what choices people have. There are a number
>> of studies showing that in neighbourhoods which are designed (or
>> happen to have developed) in ways which encourage walking (e.g. local
>> shops within walking distance) that people walk more and are generally
>> healthier. More I think than any other nation the US houses a lot of
>> its population in environments very hostile to walking. It's going to
>> be more difficult and more expensive to get the US population walking
>> more than for most other countries.

> Most older neighborhoods in the U.S. have mostly long straight streets
> at right angles. But for a couple of decades, the trend has been to
> make lots of curves and irregularities in residential areas to
> discourage people from driving through. Interestingly, some people
> feel that this also reduces walkability, by making walks longer and
> making routes harder to remember.

> http://walkscore.com is a very interesting site which gives you a
> "walkability score" for your neighborhood.

I checked, but it only works for the US :-)

One of the things which most startled me when first visiting the US
was how little people walked and how walking-hostile many
neighborhoods were. In Washington I even got picked up the police and
driven back to my hotel and told to stay inside because I was stupid
enough to try to take an evening stroll after dinner. I got the
impression that I would have been treated even more rudely by the
police if I hadn't obviously been a foreign lunatic who didn't know
that only criminals walked those streets at night.

In fact as a young Scot moving to London I was startled to discover
how little Londoners walked. On first arriving in London I remember
asking someone directions to where I was going. He started giving me
complicated directions about busses, then suddenly stopped in mid
flow. "Wait a minute," he said, "You're a Scot, aren't you"! I replied
that I was. So obviously was he. "In that case," he said, it's only a
couple of miles, and the fastest way of getting there is on foot. It's
just that folk down here don't do much walking."

Now I'm back in Edinburgh again, a nice city for walkers. Within fifty
yards of my front door are two grocers, a newsagent, a chemist, a
pharmacy, a Post Office, a pub, two cafes, a charity shop, a cash
machine, and more. It's one of those little local village-like
shopping centres that sprinkle larger older cities. There are bus
stops with services running east-west and north-south, and within two
hundred yards is an entrance to the separate cycle and pedestrian path
network which takes me a mile through leafy lanes to the nearest
supermarket, DIY superstore, and goes on for tens of miles in all
directions except the city centre. I can walk to the city centre in
half an hour, or cycle or bus in fifteen minutes. And being a
pensioner I have a free bus pass :-)

It's no accident that my house is so well placed for walking, cycling,
and public transport. Never having owned a car I have always chosen my
houses based on pedestrian, cycling, and public transport
considerations.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On 14 Mar 2008 11:50:20 GMT, Chris Malcolm posted:

>One of the things which most startled me when first visiting the US
>was how little people walked and how walking-hostile many
>neighborhoods were. In Washington I even got picked up the police and
>driven back to my hotel and told to stay inside because I was stupid
>enough to try to take an evening stroll after dinner. I got the
>impression that I would have been treated even more rudely by the
>police if I hadn't obviously been a foreign lunatic who didn't know
>that only criminals walked those streets at night.

The action of the police was likely more of a protection for you than
a walking-hostile action. There are neighbourhoods in which it is very
risky to be walking. That's a fact of life. I am surprised there are
no areas in Edinburgh that are dangerous, since virtually all major
cities have these areas.

Two illustrative stories...

I was attending a course in Chicago, and one of my classmates and I
decided to take a walk on a Sunday morning. We were staying at the
Palmer House Hotel, and since we had been all over the area in front
of the hotel (the "Loop"), we decided to go out the back door. Within
two or three blocks we had been approached by three prostitutes, and
noticed that a couple of shady looking characters had started
following us. We angled back toward the Loop, and by the time we got
back into an area we figured was safe, two more fellows had joined
those following us. The problem was, we just didn't recognize the area
behind the hotel as dangerous, since it didn't look at all like the
dangerous areas in Vancouver (to name one place).

I was chatting with a friend who drove a taxi for a living, in
Vancouver. We were talking about an area in Vancouver that was
dangerous at night. He said that he often had to tell American
customers to lock their door when they entered the area in question.
They would usually react with surprise, saying that it looked safe
enough.

>In fact as a young Scot moving to London I was startled to discover
>how little Londoners walked. On first arriving in London I remember
>asking someone directions to where I was going. He started giving me
>complicated directions about busses, then suddenly stopped in mid
>flow. "Wait a minute," he said, "You're a Scot, aren't you"! I replied
>that I was. So obviously was he. "In that case," he said, it's only a
>couple of miles, and the fastest way of getting there is on foot. It's
>just that folk down here don't do much walking."
>
>Now I'm back in Edinburgh again, a nice city for walkers. Within fifty
>yards of my front door are two grocers, a newsagent, a chemist, a
>pharmacy, a Post Office, a pub, two cafes, a charity shop, a cash
>machine, and more. It's one of those little local village-like
>shopping centres that sprinkle larger older cities. There are bus
>stops with services running east-west and north-south, and within two
>hundred yards is an entrance to the separate cycle and pedestrian path
>network which takes me a mile through leafy lanes to the nearest
>supermarket, DIY superstore, and goes on for tens of miles in all
>directions except the city centre. I can walk to the city centre in
>half an hour, or cycle or bus in fifteen minutes. And being a
>pensioner I have a free bus pass :-)
>
>It's no accident that my house is so well placed for walking, cycling,
>and public transport. Never having owned a car I have always chosen my
>houses based on pedestrian, cycling, and public transport
>considerations.

--
Larry, T2, Saskatchewan, Canada.
DX 24 Aug 07. D&E
Metformin 2000mg, Ramipril, Simvastatin
Dx A1c 8.1 : Latest 5.1 (4 Mar 08)

Chris Malcolm wrote:
> Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
>> http://walkscore.com is a very interesting site which gives you a
>> "walkability score" for your neighborhood.
>
> I checked, but it only works for the US :-)

?? I tried it on addresses I recently mailed to in
three non-U.S. countries. All gave me a map and
a score. Of course, the score is only useful if
you agree with their criteria for "walkability."

> asking someone directions to where I was going. He started giving me
> complicated directions about busses, then suddenly stopped in mid

A traveling preacher once asked a boy how to get to
the Post Office. After thanking him for the directions,
he invited the youngster to the revival meetings.
"Come on down tonight and I'll show you the way to heaven."
"Aw, go on. You don't even know the way to the Post Office!"

> Now I'm back in Edinburgh again, a nice city for walkers. Within fifty
> yards of my front door are two grocers, a newsagent, a chemist, a
> pharmacy, a Post Office, a pub, two cafes, a charity shop, a cash
> machine, and more. It's one of those little local village-like ...

That web site showed many of these as well. It's apparently part of
their formula. (Though they probably get advertising revenue from them)

--
Wes Groleau

The man who says, "I can do it!" may sometimes fail.
The man who says, "Impossible!" will never succeed.

Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
> Chris Malcolm wrote:
>> Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
>>> http://walkscore.com is a very interesting site which gives you a
>>> "walkability score" for your neighborhood.
>>
>> I checked, but it only works for the US :-)

> ?? I tried it on addresses I recently mailed to in
> three non-U.S. countries. All gave me a map and
> a score. Of course, the score is only useful if
> you agree with their criteria for "walkability."

You're quite right, I must have done something wrong. I tried again
and it gave me a map and a walkability score for my location. It was
also possible to see how it does it. It notes all the useful commercial
kinds of property near where I live, such as cafes, banks, etc., and
calculates distance to them. It gave a much too poor walkability score
to my location simply because nearly all of the local shops aren't
registered on its database, so it thinks there's almost nothing near
my house, whereas I am in fact right in the middle of a little village
of local shops. So it's not much use for locations in my neck of the
woods.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Oleg Lego <rat@atatatat.com> wrote:
> On 14 Mar 2008 11:50:20 GMT, Chris Malcolm posted:

>>One of the things which most startled me when first visiting the US
>>was how little people walked and how walking-hostile many
>>neighborhoods were. In Washington I even got picked up the police and
>>driven back to my hotel and told to stay inside because I was stupid
>>enough to try to take an evening stroll after dinner. I got the
>>impression that I would have been treated even more rudely by the
>>police if I hadn't obviously been a foreign lunatic who didn't know
>>that only criminals walked those streets at night.

> The action of the police was likely more of a protection for you than
> a walking-hostile action. There are neighbourhoods in which it is very
> risky to be walking. That's a fact of life. I am surprised there are
> no areas in Edinburgh that are dangerous, since virtually all major
> cities have these areas.

There are such areas in Edinburgh. But I didn't expect to be in such
an area when I walked out of the front door of a very large expensive
hotel into big wide streets full of very expensive shops.

> Two illustrative stories...

> I was attending a course in Chicago, and one of my classmates and I
> decided to take a walk on a Sunday morning. We were staying at the
> Palmer House Hotel, and since we had been all over the area in front
> of the hotel (the "Loop"), we decided to go out the back door. Within
> two or three blocks we had been approached by three prostitutes, and
> noticed that a couple of shady looking characters had started
> following us. We angled back toward the Loop, and by the time we got
> back into an area we figured was safe, two more fellows had joined
> those following us. The problem was, we just didn't recognize the area
> behind the hotel as dangerous, since it didn't look at all like the
> dangerous areas in Vancouver (to name one place).

> I was chatting with a friend who drove a taxi for a living, in
> Vancouver. We were talking about an area in Vancouver that was
> dangerous at night. He said that he often had to tell American
> customers to lock their door when they entered the area in question.
> They would usually react with surprise, saying that it looked safe
> enough.

I once stayed in a big hotel in Boston which a taxi driver refused to
stop outside on the grounds that the location was too dangerous to
stop and open his doors. I had to let him drive a few streets further
on and then walk back.

I was staying there while attending a scientific conference, which was
four miles away. I walked there simply to see the sights and get some
exercise. Other conference attendees were very impressed by my walking
such a distance through such territory. They thought I must be very
fit be able to walk four miles, and practised in martial arts to be
willing to risk walking through those streets. Streets which were full
of local pedestrians of all ages who weren't at all worried :-)

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

On 15 Mar 2008 19:44:20 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
wrote:

I've just checked out that walkability link in my own neighbourhood. I
live in the middle of a cluster of local trackways, with a village
circular walk, and two long-distance paths on my doorstep. It gave the
neighbourhood 7 out of 100! Presumably because the nearest shop is a
massive 2.3Km away...

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

On 3/15/08 12:44 PM, in article 642n8kF27achfU1@mid.individual.net, "Chris
Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> Oleg Lego <rat@atatatat.com> wrote:
>> On 14 Mar 2008 11:50:20 GMT, Chris Malcolm posted:
>
>>> One of the things which most startled me when first visiting the US
>>> was how little people walked and how walking-hostile many
>>> neighborhoods were. In Washington I even got picked up the police and
>>> driven back to my hotel and told to stay inside because I was stupid
>>> enough to try to take an evening stroll after dinner. I got the
>>> impression that I would have been treated even more rudely by the
>>> police if I hadn't obviously been a foreign lunatic who didn't know
>>> that only criminals walked those streets at night.
>
>> The action of the police was likely more of a protection for you than
>> a walking-hostile action. There are neighbourhoods in which it is very
>> risky to be walking. That's a fact of life. I am surprised there are
>> no areas in Edinburgh that are dangerous, since virtually all major
>> cities have these areas.
>
> There are such areas in Edinburgh. But I didn't expect to be in such
> an area when I walked out of the front door of a very large expensive
> hotel into big wide streets full of very expensive shops.
>
>> Two illustrative stories...
>
>> I was attending a course in Chicago, and one of my classmates and I
>> decided to take a walk on a Sunday morning. We were staying at the
>> Palmer House Hotel, and since we had been all over the area in front
>> of the hotel (the "Loop"), we decided to go out the back door. Within
>> two or three blocks we had been approached by three prostitutes, and
>> noticed that a couple of shady looking characters had started
>> following us. We angled back toward the Loop, and by the time we got
>> back into an area we figured was safe, two more fellows had joined
>> those following us. The problem was, we just didn't recognize the area
>> behind the hotel as dangerous, since it didn't look at all like the
>> dangerous areas in Vancouver (to name one place).
>
>> I was chatting with a friend who drove a taxi for a living, in
>> Vancouver. We were talking about an area in Vancouver that was
>> dangerous at night. He said that he often had to tell American
>> customers to lock their door when they entered the area in question.
>> They would usually react with surprise, saying that it looked safe
>> enough.
>
> I once stayed in a big hotel in Boston which a taxi driver refused to
> stop outside on the grounds that the location was too dangerous to
> stop and open his doors. I had to let him drive a few streets further
> on and then walk back.
>
> I was staying there while attending a scientific conference, which was
> four miles away. I walked there simply to see the sights and get some
> exercise. Other conference attendees were very impressed by my walking
> such a distance through such territory. They thought I must be very
> fit be able to walk four miles, and practised in martial arts to be
> willing to risk walking through those streets. Streets which were full
> of local pedestrians of all ages who weren't at all worried :-)

When we lived in San Jose, my husband got a new business colleague. He had
just arrived and was staying in a hotel with nothing much to do in the
evenings. He went for a walk one evening and was standing outside a car lot
when the police accosted him. He said he was new in town and planning to buy
a car. They would not believe him. The said he was planning on stealing one
of the cars because no one walked in San Jose. (That was not much of an
exaggeration at that time.) He told them he was Canadian and he often went
for walks at home. He didn't have his green card yet because he had only
been there for a few days which made him even more suspicious. He showed
them his passport and they let him go with the admonition that must not go
for any more walks!
--
Martha T2 Canada
1500mg. Metformin, 4mg. Avandia

Nicky wrote:
> On 15 Mar 2008 19:44:20 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> I've just checked out that walkability link in my own neighbourhood. I
> live in the middle of a cluster of local trackways, with a village
> circular walk, and two long-distance paths on my doorstep. It gave the
> neighbourhood 7 out of 100! Presumably because the nearest shop is a
> massive 2.3Km away...
>

My neighborhood had 11 out of 100, but there are some good aspects about
the location which is relatively safe and not a bad place for bicycle
riding. There is a custom meat shop and a bakery that did not come up on
their lists. People drive for miles to use the meat shop.

"0 - 25 = Driving Only: Virtually no neighborhood destinations within
walking range. You can walk from your house to your car!"

Frank

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:48:39 GMT, MI <quilchenapark@shaw.ca> wrote:

>
>
>
>On 3/15/08 12:44 PM, in article 642n8kF27achfU1@mid.individual.net, "Chris
>Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> Oleg Lego <rat@atatatat.com> wrote:
>>> On 14 Mar 2008 11:50:20 GMT, Chris Malcolm posted:
>>
>>>> One of the things which most startled me when first visiting the US
>>>> was how little people walked and how walking-hostile many
>>>> neighborhoods were. In Washington I even got picked up the police and
>>>> driven back to my hotel and told to stay inside because I was stupid
>>>> enough to try to take an evening stroll after dinner. I got the
>>>> impression that I would have been treated even more rudely by the
>>>> police if I hadn't obviously been a foreign lunatic who didn't know
>>>> that only criminals walked those streets at night.
>>
>>> The action of the police was likely more of a protection for you than
>>> a walking-hostile action. There are neighbourhoods in which it is very
>>> risky to be walking. That's a fact of life. I am surprised there are
>>> no areas in Edinburgh that are dangerous, since virtually all major
>>> cities have these areas.
>>
>> There are such areas in Edinburgh. But I didn't expect to be in such
>> an area when I walked out of the front door of a very large expensive
>> hotel into big wide streets full of very expensive shops.
>>
>>> Two illustrative stories...
>>
>>> I was attending a course in Chicago, and one of my classmates and I
>>> decided to take a walk on a Sunday morning. We were staying at the
>>> Palmer House Hotel, and since we had been all over the area in front
>>> of the hotel (the "Loop"), we decided to go out the back door. Within
>>> two or three blocks we had been approached by three prostitutes, and
>>> noticed that a couple of shady looking characters had started
>>> following us. We angled back toward the Loop, and by the time we got
>>> back into an area we figured was safe, two more fellows had joined
>>> those following us. The problem was, we just didn't recognize the area
>>> behind the hotel as dangerous, since it didn't look at all like the
>>> dangerous areas in Vancouver (to name one place).
>>
>>> I was chatting with a friend who drove a taxi for a living, in
>>> Vancouver. We were talking about an area in Vancouver that was
>>> dangerous at night. He said that he often had to tell American
>>> customers to lock their door when they entered the area in question.
>>> They would usually react with surprise, saying that it looked safe
>>> enough.
>>
>> I once stayed in a big hotel in Boston which a taxi driver refused to
>> stop outside on the grounds that the location was too dangerous to
>> stop and open his doors. I had to let him drive a few streets further
>> on and then walk back.
>>
>> I was staying there while attending a scientific conference, which was
>> four miles away. I walked there simply to see the sights and get some
>> exercise. Other conference attendees were very impressed by my walking
>> such a distance through such territory. They thought I must be very
>> fit be able to walk four miles, and practised in martial arts to be
>> willing to risk walking through those streets. Streets which were full
>> of local pedestrians of all ages who weren't at all worried :-)
>
>When we lived in San Jose, my husband got a new business colleague. He had
>just arrived and was staying in a hotel with nothing much to do in the
>evenings. He went for a walk one evening and was standing outside a car lot
>when the police accosted him. He said he was new in town and planning to buy
>a car. They would not believe him. The said he was planning on stealing one
>of the cars because no one walked in San Jose. (That was not much of an
>exaggeration at that time.) He told them he was Canadian and he often went
>for walks at home. He didn't have his green card yet because he had only
>been there for a few days which made him even more suspicious. He showed
>them his passport and they let him go with the admonition that must not go
>for any more walks!

As I grew up from the mid thirties, I could walk in any city, day
or night, That included Detroit, Dayton Ohio, San Antonia and dozen
other Midwest towns.

The only place that concerned me was lower west Manhattan.

Today I am alert when visiting a small town in Texas.

Any warped idea that prevails and makes no sense will
lead to this.

But in the end there is a bask back. Glad I won't be around.


Today all we can do is watch until the system blows up

Read real History


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Chris Malcolm wrote:
> also possible to see how it does it. It notes all the useful commercial
> kinds of property near where I live, such as cafes, banks, etc., and
> calculates distance to them. It gave a much too poor walkability score
> to my location simply because nearly all of the local shops aren't
> registered on its database, so it thinks there's almost nothing near
> my house, whereas I am in fact right in the middle of a little village
> of local shops. So it's not much use for locations in my neck of the
> woods.

The database very likely is an online yellow pages, meaning you aren't
in there unless you buy an ad.

Another flaw would be if it the score is only based on
distance along roads. They imply that walkability is
better with a grid design, but the irregular designs
of some cities and neighborhoods might encourage walking
by reducing or slowing cars.

There's plenty of good advice on
http://www.walkscore.com/how-it-doesnt-work.shtml

--
Wes Groleau

"But, Professor! I didn't plagiarize! I paid someone to
write the essay for me, and that person plagiarized!"
-- from http://rateyourstudents.blogspot.com

mmm not very accurate for here, no mention that I am only a 2 minute
walk to the beach and a 40Km flat bikeway along the beach and park,
magic sea views and no assults or personal robbery type crime. Gave a
rating of 18 personally I would give it about a 98.

(- -)
=m=(_)=m=
RodS T2
Australia


Chris Malcolm wrote:
> Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
>> Chris Malcolm wrote:
>>> Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
>>>> http://walkscore.com is a very interesting site which gives you a
>>>> "walkability score" for your neighborhood.
>>> I checked, but it only works for the US :-)
>
>> ?? I tried it on addresses I recently mailed to in
>> three non-U.S. countries. All gave me a map and
>> a score. Of course, the score is only useful if
>> you agree with their criteria for "walkability."
>
> You're quite right, I must have done something wrong. I tried again
> and it gave me a map and a walkability score for my location. It was
> also possible to see how it does it. It notes all the useful commercial
> kinds of property near where I live, such as cafes, banks, etc., and
> calculates distance to them. It gave a much too poor walkability score
> to my location simply because nearly all of the local shops aren't
> registered on its database, so it thinks there's almost nothing near
> my house, whereas I am in fact right in the middle of a little village
> of local shops. So it's not much use for locations in my neck of the
> woods.
>

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:34:01 -0400, Jefferson
<fwroy@adelphia.netexopheno> wrote:

>"0 - 25 = Driving Only: Virtually no neighborhood destinations within
>walking range. You can walk from your house to your car!"

Yeah, they do kind of assume that you have to have a destination other
than simply exercise in mind : )

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:
: Chris Malcolm wrote:
: > also possible to see how it does it. It notes all the useful commercial
: > kinds of property near where I live, such as cafes, banks, etc., and
: > calculates distance to them. It gave a much too poor walkability score
: > to my location simply because nearly all of the local shops aren't
: > registered on its database, so it thinks there's almost nothing near
: > my house, whereas I am in fact right in the middle of a little village
: > of local shops. So it's not much use for locations in my neck of the
: > woods.

: The database very likely is an online yellow pages, meaning you aren't
: in there unless you buy an ad.

: Another flaw would be if it the score is only based on
: distance along roads. They imply that walkability is
: better with a grid design, but the irregular designs
: of some cities and neighborhoods might encourage walking
: by reducing or slowing cars.

: There's plenty of good advice on
: http://www.walkscore.com/how-it-doesnt-work.shtml

: --
: Wes Groleau

All I can say is tht for a sciatica sufferer, my neighborhood is a great
place to be I can get to a wonderful food store(Fairway-for those in the
know:-) withut crossing a street, a drug store just down the block and
accross two streets, several restaurants in the same walking area and a
bus less tthan 2 blocks away. bicycling can be more problematic as the
traffic is quite heave and I woul dnot want to take my life into my hands
to deal with it. I am hoping that with my current treatments adn physical
therapy that I will be able to measure my walking in miles, not lblocks or
th e distance between standpipes(for sittine). New York City is a great
lace to not have a car. Plenty of places to walk either for recreation or
for business. Just don't attempt to cover ground fast durin the heart of
the the weekend das hen everyone seems to come to my neighborhood with
their smalll children, strollers(pushchairs) etc adn the going gets a bit
slow.

Wendy

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:06:49 +0000, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:34:01 -0400, Jefferson
><fwroy@adelphia.netexopheno> wrote:
>
>>"0 - 25 = Driving Only: Virtually no neighborhood destinations within
>>walking range. You can walk from your house to your car!"
>
>Yeah, they do kind of assume that you have to have a destination other
>than simply exercise in mind : )
>
>Nicky.
>T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

The exercise accompanied by a lower food output may work
well. Next food will be very expensive. But the medical cost
reduction will take longer. Shoe repair shop may come back.

Bitter medicine for an overdone society.

But you will need more locks.


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In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:06:40 GMT in Msg.#
<Aq5Dj.26317$421.21847@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, RodS <fred@fred.com>
wrote:

> mmm not very accurate for here, no mention that I am only a 2 minute
> walk to the beach and a 40Km flat bikeway along the beach and park,
> magic sea views and no assults or personal robbery type crime. Gave a
> rating of 18 personally I would give it about a 98.
>
> (- -)
> =m=(_)=m=
> RodS T2
> Australia

Show off!

--
DonnaB shallotpeel: St. Patrick's Day approaching: http://tinyurl.co.uk/ux63

"Misspellings, typos and grammatical errors blow your credibility, so let
someone else proofread your work. The later in the process you make changes,
the more it's going to cost. And don't trust the computer's spell-checker;
it doesn't know a deer from a dear." - Charles Gulotta, The Writer, June
2007

RodS wrote:
> mmm not very accurate for here, no mention that I am only a 2 minute
> walk to the beach and a 40Km flat bikeway along the beach and park,
> magic sea views and no assults or personal robbery type crime. Gave a
> rating of 18 personally I would give it about a 98.

Read the link for "how it doesn't work"
Unfortunately, the ocean keeps forgetting
to ask Google to list its address.

--
Wes Groleau

A pessimist says the glass is half empty.

An optimist says the glass is half full.

An engineer says somebody made the glass
twice as big as it needed to be.

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:09:21 +0000, Nicky <ukc802466929@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>On 15 Mar 2008 19:44:20 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
>wrote:
>
>I've just checked out that walkability link in my own neighbourhood. I
>live in the middle of a cluster of local trackways, with a village
>circular walk, and two long-distance paths on my doorstep. It gave the
>neighbourhood 7 out of 100! Presumably because the nearest shop is a
>massive 2.3Km away...

It's absolute bollocks here, it lists the nearest store at 11.3 km
away. Probably because that's the only one that would pay for
advertising. There's a store halfway between us and the rest of the
town, and loads of local shops in town, I always walk unless I have to
take mother, or have heavy or bulky stuff to collect (OK or if it's
snowing). In fact it's so close that on a good day I set off in the
opposite direction to get enough of a walk in . . .

Not that I'm complaining if it keeps non-sensible people from moving
here . . .