OT: Child well-being US 20th

US 20th

1. Netherlands
2. Sweden
3. Denmark
4. Finland
5. Spain
6. Switzerland
7. Norway
8. Italy
9. Republic of Ireland
10. Belgium
11. Germany
12. Canada
13. Greece
14. Poland
15. Czech Republic
16. France
17. Portugal
18. Austria
19. Hungary
20. United States
21. United Kingdom


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6360517.stm

Very Sad isn't it.

" Frank t2" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:477aa1b8$0$29721$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-07.noos.net...
> US 20th
>
> 1. Netherlands
> 2. Sweden
> 3. Denmark
> 4. Finland
> 5. Spain
> 6. Switzerland
> 7. Norway
> 8. Italy
> 9. Republic of Ireland
> 10. Belgium
> 11. Germany
> 12. Canada
> 13. Greece
> 14. Poland
> 15. Czech Republic
> 16. France
> 17. Portugal
> 18. Austria
> 19. Hungary
> 20. United States
> 21. United Kingdom
>
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6360517.stm
>

This post not CC'd by email
On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 22:43:04 -0700, "jacquie"
<happikat694@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Very Sad isn't it.
>
>" Frank t2" <a@b.c> wrote in message
>news:477aa1b8$0$29721$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-07.noos.net...
>> US 20th
>>
>> 1. Netherlands
>> 2. Sweden
>> 3. Denmark
>> 4. Finland
>> 5. Spain
>> 6. Switzerland
>> 7. Norway
>> 8. Italy
>> 9. Republic of Ireland
>> 10. Belgium
>> 11. Germany
>> 12. Canada
>> 13. Greece
>> 14. Poland
>> 15. Czech Republic
>> 16. France
>> 17. Portugal
>> 18. Austria
>> 19. Hungary
>> 20. United States
>> 21. United Kingdom
>>
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6360517.stm

G'day G'day,

Sadly, New Zealand doesn't even feature on the list. I say that not
out of a spirit of competitiveness but out of sadness for children who
so often end up in New Zealand emergency wards critically injured
following family violence.

Last year New Zealand passed legislation making the smacking of
children illegal. It appears to be having an effect if what can be
observed in supermarkets is anything to go by. Children for the most
part seem more relaxed and to be behaving better.
Hopefully the situation will gradually improve.

I wonder if others noticed that the reporters interviewed late
teenagers to find support for their article on Dutch children.

To me that seemed an odd choice.

Best wishes,

--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

" Frank t2" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:477aa1b8$0$29721$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-07.noos.net...
> US 20th
>
> 1. Netherlands
> 2. Sweden
> 3. Denmark
> 4. Finland
> 5. Spain
> 6. Switzerland
> 7. Norway
> 8. Italy
> 9. Republic of Ireland
> 10. Belgium
> 11. Germany
> 12. Canada
> 13. Greece
> 14. Poland
> 15. Czech Republic
> 16. France
> 17. Portugal
> 18. Austria
> 19. Hungary
> 20. United States
> 21. United Kingdom
>
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6360517.stm
>

Yep - our progressive society isnt necessarily an intelligent one!! And the
US and UK alike are more like 3rd world countries in mostly everything these
days!

The Netherlands rates high in alot of things - it has something to do with
*unselfish corporate government* - in that they consider the well being of
their citizens.

In the UK, no governing body considers the well being of its citizens. From
taxation through the roof on EVERYTHING. Goverment bodies (like the tax
office) losing vital data which may compromise the credit and financial well
being of a few million children when they reach 18 and making diabolical
admin errors which left thousands of families in dire straits financially
when the tax office decided it wanted the money back after IT made the
mistake.

Local authorities being given a free rein to charge us extortionate rates
for services (it all started with that medieval Poll Tax thingie that good
ol' Mags Thatcher brought back in). They changed the name of it (to Council
Tax) thinking that will dupe the people into believing everything is okay
with the world. 70 year old ladies have been put into prison for refusing
to pay their increased council tax.

Local authorities being allowed to make decisions about planning
applications or requests for free bus transport, or whatever *at their own
discretion* - in other words, if you have an arrogant local authority, they
get off on the power to say no.

The list goes on - and my point is, its through this selfish course of
constant attacks on the population that causes such strain emotionally and
financially and our children suffer because parents are distracted by the
crap dished out to them every day.

Selfish corporation governments are sick to the core.

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:44:05 GMT, "Helen Back"
<SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>
>" Frank t2" <a@b.c> wrote in message
>news:477aa1b8$0$29721$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-07.noos.net...
>> US 20th
>>
>> 1. Netherlands
>> 2. Sweden
>> 3. Denmark
>> 4. Finland
>> 5. Spain
>> 6. Switzerland
>> 7. Norway
>> 8. Italy
>> 9. Republic of Ireland
>> 10. Belgium
>> 11. Germany
>> 12. Canada
>> 13. Greece
>> 14. Poland
>> 15. Czech Republic
>> 16. France
>> 17. Portugal
>> 18. Austria
>> 19. Hungary
>> 20. United States
>> 21. United Kingdom
>>
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6360517.stm
>>
>
>Yep - our progressive society isnt necessarily an intelligent one!! And the
>US and UK alike are more like 3rd world countries in mostly everything these
>days!
>
>The Netherlands rates high in alot of things - it has something to do with
>*unselfish corporate government* - in that they consider the well being of
>their citizens.
>
>In the UK, no governing body considers the well being of its citizens. From
>taxation through the roof on EVERYTHING. Goverment bodies (like the tax
>office) losing vital data which may compromise the credit and financial well
>being of a few million children when they reach 18 and making diabolical
>admin errors which left thousands of families in dire straits financially
>when the tax office decided it wanted the money back after IT made the
>mistake.
>
>Local authorities being given a free rein to charge us extortionate rates
>for services (it all started with that medieval Poll Tax thingie that good
>ol' Mags Thatcher brought back in). They changed the name of it (to Council
>Tax) thinking that will dupe the people into believing everything is okay
>with the world. 70 year old ladies have been put into prison for refusing
>to pay their increased council tax.
>
>Local authorities being allowed to make decisions about planning
>applications or requests for free bus transport, or whatever *at their own
>discretion* - in other words, if you have an arrogant local authority, they
>get off on the power to say no.
>
>The list goes on - and my point is, its through this selfish course of
>constant attacks on the population that causes such strain emotionally and
>financially and our children suffer because parents are distracted by the
>crap dished out to them every day.
>
>Selfish corporation governments are sick to the core.
>


and yet no personal responsibility on the part of the voter / parent?

--
Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins


DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
..

fOn Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:44:05 GMT, "Helen Back"
<SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:


>In the UK, no governing body considers the well being of its citizens. From
>taxation through the roof on EVERYTHING.

How does The Netherlands provide this utopian society without
collecting taxes?

--
BlueBrooke
T2/D&E/June 2005
May 2007 A1c 5.5
Oct 2007 Yellow Belt! Yeah!

"BlueBrooke" <.@.> wrote in message
news:0qmnn3td7oaq2uhepo7c6hfh5pnchf78ss@4ax.com...
> fOn Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:44:05 GMT, "Helen Back"
> <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>In the UK, no governing body considers the well being of its citizens.
>>From
>>taxation through the roof on EVERYTHING.
>
> How does The Netherlands provide this utopian society without
> collecting taxes?

How can well-being be assessed when they admit that Dutch kids are ruling
the family roosts? Of course kids are going to feel happy doing that. I
think the wrong criteria was used for this study.

"Màck©®" <IAM@OneWithTheGoddess.org> wrote in message
news:en7nn3tuokhq80j1k9rj4d8h1trleetng3@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:44:05 GMT, "Helen Back"
> <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>" Frank t2" <a@b.c> wrote in message
>>news:477aa1b8$0$29721$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-07.noos.net...
>>> US 20th
>>>
>>> 1. Netherlands
>>> 2. Sweden
>>> 3. Denmark
>>> 4. Finland
>>> 5. Spain
>>> 6. Switzerland
>>> 7. Norway
>>> 8. Italy
>>> 9. Republic of Ireland
>>> 10. Belgium
>>> 11. Germany
>>> 12. Canada
>>> 13. Greece
>>> 14. Poland
>>> 15. Czech Republic
>>> 16. France
>>> 17. Portugal
>>> 18. Austria
>>> 19. Hungary
>>> 20. United States
>>> 21. United Kingdom
>>>
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6360517.stm
>>>
>>
>>Yep - our progressive society isnt necessarily an intelligent one!! And
>>the
>>US and UK alike are more like 3rd world countries in mostly everything
>>these
>>days!
>>
>>The Netherlands rates high in alot of things - it has something to do with
>>*unselfish corporate government* - in that they consider the well being of
>>their citizens.
>>
>>In the UK, no governing body considers the well being of its citizens.
>>From
>>taxation through the roof on EVERYTHING. Goverment bodies (like the tax
>>office) losing vital data which may compromise the credit and financial
>>well
>>being of a few million children when they reach 18 and making diabolical
>>admin errors which left thousands of families in dire straits financially
>>when the tax office decided it wanted the money back after IT made the
>>mistake.
>>
>>Local authorities being given a free rein to charge us extortionate rates
>>for services (it all started with that medieval Poll Tax thingie that good
>>ol' Mags Thatcher brought back in). They changed the name of it (to
>>Council
>>Tax) thinking that will dupe the people into believing everything is okay
>>with the world. 70 year old ladies have been put into prison for refusing
>>to pay their increased council tax.
>>
>>Local authorities being allowed to make decisions about planning
>>applications or requests for free bus transport, or whatever *at their own
>>discretion* - in other words, if you have an arrogant local authority,
>>they
>>get off on the power to say no.
>>
>>The list goes on - and my point is, its through this selfish course of
>>constant attacks on the population that causes such strain emotionally and
>>financially and our children suffer because parents are distracted by the
>>crap dished out to them every day.
>>
>>Selfish corporation governments are sick to the core.
>>
>
>
> and yet no personal responsibility on the part of the voter / parent?
>

Us happy, cosy in reverie westerners dont revolt these days! We're too
busy consuming!!

"BlueBrooke" <.@.> wrote in message
news:0qmnn3td7oaq2uhepo7c6hfh5pnchf78ss@4ax.com...
> fOn Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:44:05 GMT, "Helen Back"
> <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>In the UK, no governing body considers the well being of its citizens.
>>From
>>taxation through the roof on EVERYTHING.
>
> How does The Netherlands provide this utopian society without
> collecting taxes?
>

I dont know the semantics of it - but I know that mindset and attitude of
government plays a big part in how citizens react. In the Netherlands, for
example, democracy means democracy.
We like to call ourselves democratic but, certainly in the UK, when we have
outcry's and protest over injustice it goes unheeded - that isnt
democratic - thats totalitarian.

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 07:14:10 +1100, "Ozgirl"
<are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote:

>
>"BlueBrooke" <.@.> wrote in message
>news:0qmnn3td7oaq2uhepo7c6hfh5pnchf78ss@4ax.com.. .
>> fOn Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:44:05 GMT, "Helen Back"
>> <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In the UK, no governing body considers the well being of its citizens.
>>>From
>>>taxation through the roof on EVERYTHING.
>>
>> How does The Netherlands provide this utopian society without
>> collecting taxes?
>
>How can well-being be assessed when they admit that Dutch kids are ruling
>the family roosts? Of course kids are going to feel happy doing that. I
>think the wrong criteria was used for this study.

Hi Jan --

I agree with you 100% -- but I was asking Helen specifically about her
statement about UK taxes. I assumed she had information about taxes
in The Netherlands since she seemed to be comparing the two. It
appears from her response that she does not.

Neither do I, by the way, other than to have read posts in other
groups by people who purport to be from The Netherlands. They say the
tax rate is pretty high. But then, most people think *their* taxes
are high, no matter what country they live in.

Frankly, when it comes to taxes, I don't think the issue is the rate
-- the issue is what is done with the money. If the Dutch kids are
running the families, perhaps those taxes could be better spent
purchasing backbones for the parents?

Be well!

--
BlueBrooke
T2/D&E/June 2005
May 2007 A1c 5.5
Oct 2007 Yellow Belt! Yeah!

"BlueBrooke" <.@.> wrote in message
news:jn2qn31r8jh8331lb14r7qs6sc3h31g68u@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 07:14:10 +1100, "Ozgirl"
> <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"BlueBrooke" <.@.> wrote in message
>>news:0qmnn3td7oaq2uhepo7c6hfh5pnchf78ss@4ax.com. ..
>>> fOn Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:44:05 GMT, "Helen Back"
>>> <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In the UK, no governing body considers the well being of its citizens.
>>>>From
>>>>taxation through the roof on EVERYTHING.
>>>
>>> How does The Netherlands provide this utopian society without
>>> collecting taxes?
>>
>>How can well-being be assessed when they admit that Dutch kids are ruling
>>the family roosts? Of course kids are going to feel happy doing that. I
>>think the wrong criteria was used for this study.
>
> Hi Jan --
>
> I agree with you 100% -- but I was asking Helen specifically about her
> statement about UK taxes. I assumed she had information about taxes
> in The Netherlands since she seemed to be comparing the two. It
> appears from her response that she does not.
>
> Neither do I, by the way, other than to have read posts in other
> groups by people who purport to be from The Netherlands. They say the
> tax rate is pretty high. But then, most people think *their* taxes
> are high, no matter what country they live in.
>
> Frankly, when it comes to taxes, I don't think the issue is the rate
> -- the issue is what is done with the money. If the Dutch kids are
> running the families, perhaps those taxes could be better spent
> purchasing backbones for the parents?
>
> Be well!
>


Yes, I heard taxation is high in the Nederlands too, but its not really
about taxation. I mentioned taxation as one tool that makes the average Brit
frustrated and unhappy. In the UK we are taxed on everything and given no
incentives. It's a take, take government. Many things are taken from us
generally and nothing given back.

In the Netherlands, altho taxation is in evidence, the general unselfish
attitude of government and society as a whole are making for happier people.
The mindset is one of unselfishness - people's feelings and circumstances
are taken into consideration - unlike those in the UK.

We arent Dutch, so we cannot understand why the system of children *ruling
the roost* is working - but it's making happier children and happier
parents.

I found this interesting little article:

http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/dutch_kids.htm

"Helen Back" <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> a écrit ...
>
> "BlueBrooke" <.@.> wrote ...
>> "Helen Back" <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In the UK, no governing body considers the well being of its citizens.
>>>From
>>>taxation through the roof on EVERYTHING.
>>
>> How does The Netherlands provide this utopian society without
>> collecting taxes?
>>
>
> I dont know the semantics of it - but I know that mindset and attitude of
> government plays a big part in how citizens react. In the Netherlands,
> for example, democracy means democracy.
> We like to call ourselves democratic but, certainly in the UK, when we
> have outcry's and protest over injustice it goes unheeded - that isnt
> democratic - thats totalitarian.


And The Netherlands has never been known (for the last 50 yrs, anway)
as a low tax country in Europe.

Don't know where that was invented ...

"Helen Back" <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> a écrit ...
>
> "BlueBrooke" <.@.> wrote ...
>> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"BlueBrooke" <.@.> wrote ...
>>>> "Helen Back" <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In the UK, no governing body considers the well being of its citizens.
>>>>>From
>>>>>taxation through the roof on EVERYTHING.
>>>>
>>>> How does The Netherlands provide this utopian society without
>>>> collecting taxes?
>>>
>>>How can well-being be assessed when they admit that Dutch kids are ruling
>>>the family roosts? Of course kids are going to feel happy doing that. I
>>>think the wrong criteria was used for this study.
>>
>> Hi Jan --
>>
>> I agree with you 100% -- but I was asking Helen specifically about her
>> statement about UK taxes. I assumed she had information about taxes
>> in The Netherlands since she seemed to be comparing the two. It
>> appears from her response that she does not.
>>
>> Neither do I, by the way, other than to have read posts in other
>> groups by people who purport to be from The Netherlands. They say the
>> tax rate is pretty high. But then, most people think *their* taxes
>> are high, no matter what country they live in.
>>
>> Frankly, when it comes to taxes, I don't think the issue is the rate
>> -- the issue is what is done with the money. If the Dutch kids are
>> running the families, perhaps those taxes could be better spent
>> purchasing backbones for the parents?
>>
>> Be well!
>>
>
>
> Yes, I heard taxation is high in the Nederlands too, but its not really
> about taxation. I mentioned taxation as one tool that makes the average
> Brit frustrated and unhappy. In the UK we are taxed on everything and
> given no incentives. It's a take, take government. Many things are taken
> from us generally and nothing given back.
>
> In the Netherlands, altho taxation is in evidence, the general unselfish
> attitude of government and society as a whole are making for happier
> people. The mindset is one of unselfishness - people's feelings and
> circumstances are taken into consideration - unlike those in the UK.
>
> We arent Dutch, so we cannot understand why the system of children *ruling
> the roost* is working - but it's making happier children and happier
> parents.
>
> I found this interesting little article:
>
> http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/dutch_kids.htm


I'm not Dutch either, but I have Dutch friends - I think the Dutch gvt sees
to it that
taxes are well employed and they are noto wasted on frivolous things like a
well-groomed army (notorious for their long haired troops and police)

Plus, they don't waste time going after drug runners you can buy stuff in
special cafés ...