OT / A poem for some other day

Thanks for the Rilke poem, Will. Here's some more German
on a different tack:

Der Werwolf

Ein Werwolf eines Nachts entwich
von Weib und Kind und sich begab
an eines Dorfschullehrers Grab
und bat ihn: „Bitte, beuge mich!“
Der Dorfschulmeister stieg hinauf
auf seines Blechschilds Messingknauf
und sprach zum Wolf, der seine Pfoten
geduldig kreuzte vor dem Toten:
„Der Werwolf“ - sprach der gute Mann,
„des Weswolfs, Genitiv sodann,
dem Wemwolf, Dativ, wie man’s nennt,
den Wenwolf - damit hat’s ein End’.“
Dem Werwolf schmeichelten die Fälle,
er rollte seine Augenbälle.
Indessen, bat er, füge doch
zur Einzahl auch die Mehrzahl noch!
Der Dorfschulmeister aber mußte
gestehn, daß er von ihr nichts wußte,
Zwar Wölfe gäb’s in großer Schar,
doch „Wer“ gäb’s nur im Singular.
Der Wolf erhob sich tränenblind -
er hatte ja doch Weib und Kind!!
Doch da er kein Gelehrter eben,
so schied er dankend und ergeben.

Christian Morgenstern

The effect depends on a pun, and therefore translation
doesn't help. But several people have made English poems
with a similar gimmick: http://tinyurl.com/34snfv

--
Wes Groleau
"Grant me the serenity to accept those I cannot change;
the courage to change the one I can;
and the wisdom to know it's me."
-- unknown

Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
feel.

Loretta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 02:07:59 GMT, Wes Groleau
<groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:

>Thanks for the Rilke poem, Will. Here's some more German
>on a different tack:
>
>Der Werwolf
>

>Christian Morgenstern
>
>The effect depends on a pun, and therefore translation
>doesn't help. But several people have made English poems
>with a similar gimmick: http://tinyurl.com/34snfv

Thanks, Wes... That was fun....

The Whowolf, ha!

I always appreaciate an exquisite sense of humor, and yours is tops.

Will, T2

Loretta Eisenberg wrote:
> Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
> bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
> feel.
>
> Loretta
>
> --
> In tribute to the United States of America and the State
> of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
> terrorism.
>
When I was young I hated anything German. I was a kid in London in WW2,
and remember the air-raids well. Fortunately, when I was in my early 20s
I visited Austria and Germany, and made the *surprise* realisation that
they were a friendly, kind people, just like the people I knew at home.
I sure miss my shrapnel collection, though!

Gillian

On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 21:51:41 -0500, Ronetta@webtv.net (Loretta
Eisenberg) wrote:

>Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
>bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
>feel.
>
>Loretta

Hello dear Loretta,

I was not even thinking of Rilke in that way, when I made that post...
He is profound poet in my view, just as are Schiller and Goethe...
Thomas Mann, another German writer, would be another... and yes, one
of my friends, now deceased, was a German lady who used to live across
the street from Thomas Mann, when she was a young girl, and she grew
up playing with his children, and she lived a life of privilege....

The rest of the story is that she married a German Jewish man, and
because of that love match, she went to Dachau.... Before she went,
she got her children out to the U.S..... Although her husband died in
Auschwitz, she escaped from Dachau and trekked over the mountains to
Switzerland. She was a very great lady... I have kept some of her
writings that she gave me.

In later life, my friend bacame a University Professor of German
Literature. You would probably recognize her name, since she became
published and was a best selling author at one time, but I think some
things are better left unsaid and kept private.

She always said, I cannot hate Germans, because if I said that, "I
would hate myself.... I was a victim of the Nazis, too".... She lost
her husband and other members of her family, and everything she had in
the way of property and possessions. Sshe never remarried. her son and
daughter survived and lived to give her grandchildren, of which she
was very proud, just as any of would be.

It is a little bit like some Southerners in the U.S., or people in
South Africa.... or perhaps even some people in Northern Ireland. Yes,
there have been horrible social injustices, but we have to find ways
past all that... It is not the people, necessarily... The problem is
corrupt social systems that somehow become active and in place. For
that matter, those who want to persecute any group of identified and
conspicuous "others" would seem to fall into the same category, in my
view..... I am sure many of my gay friends can relate to that one.

With respect, I would say it is not the German language that should
give offense..... it is social injustice, wherever it may arise, that
is the offender. And, I submit, social injustice is to be found all
over the world, wherever people are to be found, and all thinking
people must be opposed to it whenever we encounter it.


Will, T2

On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 21:51:41 -0500, Ronetta@webtv.net (Loretta
Eisenberg) wrote:

>Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
>bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
>feel.
>
>Loretta

I am so sorry, Loretta, if my post gave you any pain...

That was not my intention, at all.

Will, T2

I feel the same way when I hear a certain language. The language isn't
responsible for the atrocities involved, but it definitely takes me
there when I hear it.

Cheri


Loretta Eisenberg wrote in message
<671-45E63FBD-6@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net>...
Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
feel.

Loretta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.

On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 20:26:11 -0800, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
wrote:

>I feel the same way when I hear a certain language. The language isn't
>responsible for the atrocities involved, but it definitely takes me
>there when I hear it.
>
>Cheri
>
>
>Loretta Eisenberg wrote in message
><671-45E63FBD-6@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net>...
>Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
>bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
>feel.
>
>Loretta

Maybe that is why some people who speak Arabic and Turkish hate the
sound of English... Did you know that Richard I ordered the slaughter
of thousands of Muslim captives and their families at Acre in the
Third Crusade? It seems to me that we all have to find a way to get
past the emotion and relate to each other genuinely as fellow humans,
or else there will never be any hope of peace....

Will, T2

I don't dislike the people, I hate the sound of the language. Same thing
with music. I really hate the sound of certain types of music, which
takes me to different days as well, but I don't dislike the artists.

Cheri


Will, T2 wrote in message ...
>On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 20:26:11 -0800, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
>wrote:
>
>>I feel the same way when I hear a certain language. The language isn't
>>responsible for the atrocities involved, but it definitely takes me
>>there when I hear it.
>>
>>Cheri
>>
>>
>>Loretta Eisenberg wrote in message
>><671-45E63FBD-6@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net>...
>>Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
>>bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
>>feel.
>>
>>Loretta
>
>Maybe that is why some people who speak Arabic and Turkish hate the
>sound of English... Did you know that Richard I ordered the slaughter
>of thousands of Muslim captives and their families at Acre in the
>Third Crusade? It seems to me that we all have to find a way to get
>past the emotion and relate to each other genuinely as fellow humans,
>or else there will never be any hope of peace....
>
>Will, T2

On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 20:45:57 -0800, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
wrote:

>I don't dislike the people, I hate the sound of the language. Same thing
>with music. I really hate the sound of certain types of music, which
>takes me to different days as well, but I don't dislike the artists.
>
>Cheri

That's fair, Cheri... I can understand that. Mental associations are
very powerful, and they can influence us and our thought processes for
a lifetime.

Hope things are going well out there in CA tonight.

Will, T2

"Loretta Eisenberg" <Ronetta@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:671-45E63FBD-6@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...
> Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
> bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
> feel.
>
> Loretta
>
> --
> In tribute to the United States of America and the State
> of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
> terrorism.
>
Both my mother and my father suffered horribly at the hands of the Nazis, my
father "losing" all his family, and my mother most of her family. And yet,
my mother never had a problem with German (we were Polish), even happily
translating some letter for a lady in Australia. I know it's hard to
believe, but there were a few good Germans - alas, too few. My mother
mentioned a few guards who took pity on the Jewish inmates.

As an aside, by the time I was six years old, from what my mother told me of
her past, I felt as if I had lived through the Holocaust myself. I got to
know such choice expressions as "Jude lump", "hende hoch", "achtung",
"Litzmanstadt", etc. etc. - too numerous to remember them all. Another
interesting point is the curses Poles used to heap on us, and I mean AFTER
the war, things I recall myself - "Hitler mial racie" (Hitler was right),
"Zydzie, idz do Jerozolimy" (Jew, go back to Jerusalem), "Parszywy Zyd"
(Infested Jew).... And yet my two best friends are both Polish - non Jewish.
Another good friend, also non-Jewish, is of German descent. If I started
hating every nation or race which did us harm, I wouldn't know where to
start.

Sorry, I got caught up in this - I don't normally dwell on non-diabetic
matters here.

Henry M.

On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 21:05:09 +1100, "hemyd"
<mydspamhen@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

>"Loretta Eisenberg" <Ronetta@webtv.net> wrote in message
>news:671-45E63FBD-6@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...
>> Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
>> bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
>> feel.
>>
>> Loretta
>>
>> --
>> In tribute to the United States of America and the State
>> of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
>> terrorism.
>>
>Both my mother and my father suffered horribly at the hands of the Nazis, my
>father "losing" all his family, and my mother most of her family. And yet,
>my mother never had a problem with German (we were Polish), even happily
>translating some letter for a lady in Australia. I know it's hard to
>believe, but there were a few good Germans - alas, too few. My mother
>mentioned a few guards who took pity on the Jewish inmates.
>
>As an aside, by the time I was six years old, from what my mother told me of
>her past, I felt as if I had lived through the Holocaust myself. I got to
>know such choice expressions as "Jude lump", "hende hoch", "achtung",
>"Litzmanstadt", etc. etc. - too numerous to remember them all. Another
>interesting point is the curses Poles used to heap on us, and I mean AFTER
>the war, things I recall myself - "Hitler mial racie" (Hitler was right),
>"Zydzie, idz do Jerozolimy" (Jew, go back to Jerusalem), "Parszywy Zyd"
>(Infested Jew).... And yet my two best friends are both Polish - non Jewish.
>Another good friend, also non-Jewish, is of German descent. If I started
>hating every nation or race which did us harm, I wouldn't know where to
>start.
>
>Sorry, I got caught up in this - I don't normally dwell on non-diabetic
>matters here.
>
>Henry M.
>
Interesting.

Drop in more often Henry.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus

"Will, T2" <wmmckee@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4uicu25mn7eetsv1dva4ii20ra6b0ag8o7@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 21:51:41 -0500, Ronetta@webtv.net (Loretta
> Eisenberg) wrote:
>
>>Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
>>bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
>>feel.
>>
>>Loretta
>
> Hello dear Loretta,
>
> I was not even thinking of Rilke in that way, when I made that post...
> He is profound poet in my view, just as are Schiller and Goethe...
> Thomas Mann, another German writer, would be another... and yes, one
> of my friends, now deceased, was a German lady who used to live across
> the street from Thomas Mann, when she was a young girl, and she grew
> up playing with his children, and she lived a life of privilege....
>
> The rest of the story is that she married a German Jewish man, and
> because of that love match, she went to Dachau.... Before she went,
> she got her children out to the U.S..... Although her husband died in
> Auschwitz, she escaped from Dachau and trekked over the mountains to
> Switzerland. She was a very great lady... I have kept some of her
> writings that she gave me.
>
> In later life, my friend bacame a University Professor of German
> Literature. You would probably recognize her name, since she became
> published and was a best selling author at one time, but I think some
> things are better left unsaid and kept private.
>
> She always said, I cannot hate Germans, because if I said that, "I
> would hate myself.... I was a victim of the Nazis, too".... She lost
> her husband and other members of her family, and everything she had in
> the way of property and possessions. Sshe never remarried. her son and
> daughter survived and lived to give her grandchildren, of which she
> was very proud, just as any of would be.
>
> It is a little bit like some Southerners in the U.S., or people in
> South Africa.... or perhaps even some people in Northern Ireland. Yes,
> there have been horrible social injustices, but we have to find ways
> past all that... It is not the people, necessarily... The problem is
> corrupt social systems that somehow become active and in place. For
> that matter, those who want to persecute any group of identified and
> conspicuous "others" would seem to fall into the same category, in my
> view..... I am sure many of my gay friends can relate to that one.
>
> With respect, I would say it is not the German language that should
> give offense..... it is social injustice, wherever it may arise, that
> is the offender. And, I submit, social injustice is to be found all
> over the world, wherever people are to be found, and all thinking
> people must be opposed to it whenever we encounter it.
>
>
> Will, T2


Beautifully said, Will. The real enemy is ignorance, underlying it all.

I too have known many wonderful and kind German people as well as many
wonderful and kind Jewish people. Labeling ANY entire group is wrong,
because human diversity is such, within any category, that the labels are
always going to be applied to a good many people who don't deserve them.

I knew a woman whose mother was shot before her eyes when she was a very
young teenager because her mother had taken in some Jewish children to hide
and protect them. They shot her mother and took the children in question
off to a concentration camp. She ended up raising all her younger brothers
and sisters. She died a couple of years ago, but what a life she had!

Likewise, before I retired a couple of years ago, I worked for a Jewish man
for many years who was the kindest, most generous, most gentle, witty, funny
and wise human beings who ever walked this earth. He was almost like a
second father to me, and a dearer friend you couldn't imagine.

Last night I watched a show about the "Children of the Branch Davidians."

I have concluded that ideologies that divide and separate humanity into
groups called "good" and others "evil" are dangerous and destructive forces.
Idealogies that see all beings as brothers and sisters, and who demonize no
one, and who preach loving kindness to all, are the only hope for any kind
of peace in the world.
--

Best Regards,

Evelyn Ruut

"Will, T2" <wmmckee@cox.net> wrote in message
news:delcu2ljs47perac7h9pkluvsfvtcnfdfc@4ax.com...
>
> Maybe that is why some people who speak Arabic and Turkish hate the
> sound of English... Did you know that Richard I ordered the slaughter
> of thousands of Muslim captives and their families at Acre in the
> Third Crusade?

Nothing to do with the English language - Richard I was a French Prince who
spoke French.
His English subjects spoke Anglo-Saxon.
The English language was struggling to be born at the time.

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:49:13 GMT, "Peter C" <petercy@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:

>Nothing to do with the English language - Richard I was a French Prince who
>spoke French.


Well said, Peter... You are absolutely right about that. He was King
of England, but Norman French was his language.... Thanks for your
keen observation.

What made me think of it, however, is that I have heard some Muslim
extremists use atrocities committed in the Crusades as an excuse for
hating the West now, and particuilarly the English speaking west,
because of that incident, among others.

And, my point was much the same as yours.... It has nothing to do
with the English language, or any other language....it has everything
to do with people and their flawed vision and ignorance.

Nice hearing from you.

Will, T2

On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 07:58:45 -0500, "Evelyn Ruut"
<evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote:

>I have concluded that ideologies that divide and separate humanity into
>groups called "good" and others "evil" are dangerous and destructive forces.
>Idealogies that see all beings as brothers and sisters, and who demonize no
>one, and who preach loving kindness to all, are the only hope for any kind
>of peace in the world.

I agree, Evelyn, but it is a little like waiting for the wolf to
dwell with the lamb ....

Will, T2

Henry when I hear your story , it brings me to the boiling point when
there are men like Mel Gibsons father and probably Mel himself who are
denyers of the holocaust.

I attned a writing class, A new member has joined and he is a survivor.
Last week he showed us his number on his arm. How he suffered.

Loretta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.

Dear ASD, I do want to apologize for my overreaction, but
unfortunately I didnt have impulse control. I should have kept my
thoughts to myself and not written them here. But getting over losing
my grandmothers and grandfathers entire family doesnt bode well with me
to this day.

The language is unbearable to me, thats all

again mea culpa

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.

Evelyn dont tell me I missed that show and watched American Idol. :-)

Loretta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.

"Will, T2" <wmmckee@cox.net> wrote in message
news:u8ndu2138uq5j1i00hj7m6pmb0k3l8nro1@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 07:58:45 -0500, "Evelyn Ruut"
> <evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I have concluded that ideologies that divide and separate humanity into
>>groups called "good" and others "evil" are dangerous and destructive
>>forces.
>>Idealogies that see all beings as brothers and sisters, and who demonize
>>no
>>one, and who preach loving kindness to all, are the only hope for any kind
>>of peace in the world.
>
> I agree, Evelyn, but it is a little like waiting for the wolf to
> dwell with the lamb ....
>
> Will, T2


That is fairly obvious, of course, but we can start with ourselves. If
every individual started to think globally and to stop hating whole groups,
there would be no more problem. Even if only a few do it, it might make a
slightly more civil world. Shantideva said you can't cover the whole world
with leather, but you can cover your own feet with leather and get the same
result. So we need to start with ourselves and see that dividing people
into groups to hate is irrational.

Over my lifetime having seen the civil rights movement and other such
movements where many commonly accepted attitudes of one era have changed
drastically in another, I continue to dare to hope, and to try and stop
prejudice against groups of people of any kind within myself. That's all
I can do.... and also to speak out against prejudices when I have the
chance.

--

Best Regards,

Evelyn Ruut

On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 09:31:16 -0500, Ronetta@webtv.net (Loretta
Eisenberg) wrote:

>Dear ASD, I do want to apologize for my overreaction, but
>unfortunately I didnt have impulse control. I should have kept my
>thoughts to myself and not written them here. But getting over losing
>my grandmothers and grandfathers entire family doesnt bode well with me
>to this day.
>
>The language is unbearable to me, thats all
>
>again mea culpa

Hi Loretta,

You have said or done nothing for which you need to apologize...
Something you saw on here hit a nerve, that's all. If it is any
comfort at all, Rilke, was a paragon of peace and kindness, and he
died in 1926.... The name of the poem which I posted, and which I
left out, and which I will not give in the German, was "Buddha in
Glory"....

I am very sorry that the mere sight of German words gave such offense.
I just had no idea...

Will, T2

On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:02:47 -0500, "Evelyn Ruut"
<evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote:

>Over my lifetime having seen the civil rights movement and other such
>movements where many commonly accepted attitudes of one era have changed
>drastically in another, I continue to dare to hope, and to try and stop
>prejudice against groups of people of any kind within myself. That's all
>I can do.... and also to speak out against prejudices when I have the
>chance.


Great wisdom there, Evelyn... I agree.

Will, T2

"Loretta Eisenberg" <Ronetta@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3410-45E6E3B4-147@storefull-3235.bay.webtv.net...
> Dear ASD, I do want to apologize for my overreaction, but
> unfortunately I didnt have impulse control. I should have kept my
> thoughts to myself and not written them here. But getting over losing
> my grandmothers and grandfathers entire family doesnt bode well with me
> to this day.
>
> The language is unbearable to me, thats all
>
> again mea culpa


Hi Loretta,

No shame in saying what you felt. I offer you my deepest sympathy. It
was a horrible time and a horrible loss. Hatred is never stopped by more
hatred. It may not be forgiveable, (and who could blame you) but it is
something that should stand as a monument forever in history, to the depths
of depravity that hatred of groups of any kind, can bring human beings to.

My former (jewish) boss whom I wrote about in the earlier post, lost his
entire family, siblings parents, everybody. But he didn't hate anyone, in
fact he was quite the kindest man I ever knew. He was colorblind, and
religion blind, and treated everyone as an individual. It was a true life
lesson to know him. He never spoke in hatred of germans or germany, and in
fact fought in the second WW. He had been sent here as a young boy to
live with a cousin here in the US, but he lost the entire rest of his family
in the holocaust over there.

There are good and bad in every kind.

I know good people Loretta, and you are a good person.
--

Best Regards,

Evelyn Ruut

"Loretta Eisenberg" <Ronetta@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3410-45E6E50A-150@storefull-3235.bay.webtv.net...
> Evelyn dont tell me I missed that show and watched American Idol. :-)
>
> Loretta


LOL! I confess I got tired of "idol" after a while.

I like a lot of the history channel, the discovery channel, Court TV and
prime time and dateline and such.

--

Best Regards,

Evelyn Ruut

In alt.support.diabetes on Thu, 1 Mar 2007 09:31:16 -0500 in Msg.#
<3410-45E6E3B4-147@storefull-3235.bay.webtv.net>, Ronetta@webtv.net (Loretta
Eisenberg) wrote:

> Dear ASD, I do want to apologize for my overreaction, but
> unfortunately I didnt have impulse control. I should have kept my
> thoughts to myself and not written them here. But getting over losing
> my grandmothers and grandfathers entire family doesnt bode well with me
> to this day.
>
> The language is unbearable to me, thats all
>
> again mea culpa

Loretta, I was moved by your instinctual expression of your feelings. And, I
think it has provoked an interesting discussion.

Hugs.

--
DonnaB
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg.
...................09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
...................12-20-06 hbA1C 5.2

"The future was with Fate. The present was our own." - Sir Arthur Conan
Doyle, The Poison Belt

On Feb 28, 8:34 pm, "Will, T2" <wmmc...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 20:26:11 -0800, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
> wrote:
>
> >I feel the same way when I hear a certain language. The language isn't
> >responsible for the atrocities involved, but it definitely takes me
> >there when I hear it.
>
> >Cheri
>
> >Loretta Eisenberg wrote in message
> ><671-45E63FB...@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net>...
> >Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
> >bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
> >feel.
>
> >Loretta
>
> Maybe that is why some people who speak Arabic and Turkish hate the
> sound of English... Did you know that Richard I ordered the slaughter
> of thousands of Muslim captives and their families at Acre in the
> Third Crusade? It seems to me that we all have to find a way to get
> past the emotion and relate to each other genuinely as fellow humans,
> or else there will never be any hope of peace....
>
> Will, T2

My family is still angry over an incident in the 16th century in their
European city--Islamic invaders slaughtered Christian knights, tied
them to crosses, and floated them down the river into the besieged
city. The city retailiated by loading their canons with the heads of
the captured Islamic knights and firing on the invaders.

"Ricavito" <newsgroupreader@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:1172764926.469482.130120@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 28, 8:34 pm, "Will, T2" <wmmc...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 20:26:11 -0800, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I feel the same way when I hear a certain language. The language isn't
>> >responsible for the atrocities involved, but it definitely takes me
>> >there when I hear it.
>>
>> >Cheri
>>
>> >Loretta Eisenberg wrote in message
>> ><671-45E63FB...@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net>...
>> >Call me Jewish, but the german language just repulses me. I cant even
>> >bear to look at it. sorry if that offends anyone, but I feel how I
>> >feel.
>>
>> >Loretta
>>
>> Maybe that is why some people who speak Arabic and Turkish hate the
>> sound of English... Did you know that Richard I ordered the slaughter
>> of thousands of Muslim captives and their families at Acre in the
>> Third Crusade? It seems to me that we all have to find a way to get
>> past the emotion and relate to each other genuinely as fellow humans,
>> or else there will never be any hope of peace....
>>
>> Will, T2
>
> My family is still angry over an incident in the 16th century in their
> European city--Islamic invaders slaughtered Christian knights, tied
> them to crosses, and floated them down the river into the besieged
> city. The city retailiated by loading their canons with the heads of
> the captured Islamic knights and firing on the invaders.



When does it ever end?

"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"... Gandhi

--

Best Regards,

Evelyn Ruut

Ric what a horrible story, mans inhumanity to man has been from the
very beginning of time and unfortunately, it will never end.

Loretta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.

This is the first year I've ever taped American Idol, or watched it. I'm
quite enjoying it, but wouldn't do it again. Too much taping and trying
to remember when to tape etc. I'm liking Sundance, Chris, Blake, and
Phil right now. Haven't decided with the gals since they are very
talented.

Cheri


Loretta Eisenberg wrote in message
<3410-45E6E50A-150@storefull-3235.bay.webtv.net>...
Evelyn dont tell me I missed that show and watched American Idol. :-)

Loretta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.

I understand what you're saying. As I told Will...much like Trisha
Yearwood singing "The Song Remembers When." Some things really do take
you there.

Cheri


Loretta Eisenberg wrote in message
<3410-45E6E3B4-147@storefull-3235.bay.webtv.net>...
Dear ASD, I do want to apologize for my overreaction, but
unfortunately I didnt have impulse control. I should have kept my
thoughts to myself and not written them here. But getting over losing
my grandmothers and grandfathers entire family doesnt bode well with me
to this day.

The language is unbearable to me, thats all

again mea culpa

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.

On the day that there is only on person left, and that person would
probably have a running argument with him/her self on a daily basis. ;-)

Cheri

Evelyn Ruut wrote in message

<45e7012c$0$16973$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>...
>When does it ever end?

On 1-Mar-2007, "hemyd" <mydspamhen@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> Both my mother and my father suffered horribly at the hands of the Nazis,
> my
> father "losing" all his family, and my mother most of her family. And yet,
>
> my mother never had a problem with German (we were Polish), even happily
> translating some letter for a lady in Australia. I know it's hard to
> believe, but there were a few good Germans - alas, too few. My mother
> mentioned a few guards who took pity on the Jewish inmates.

Hello Henry,

That is a remarkable story. Your parents must have been very enlightened
people to have raised such a kind son as yourself, after what they had
endured.

As Evelyn suggests, we need to find ways of viewing other people as kindred
souls, and not just as broad divided different groups with the object of
hatred... I have known and worked closely with people of just about every
identifiable "group" I can think of, and I think most folks in all such
groups are truly wonderful people... I have even had refugees and homeless
people stay in my home at times.... Africans, Muslims, Vietnamese boat
people, Bosnians, all sorts of people, and on the whole, most of them were
truly amazing when I think that they each had a unique life story to tell...
The world can be a beautiful place, if enough of us consider it from the
right perspective.

Will, T2

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Loretta Eisenberg wrote:
> Dear ASD, I do want to apologize for my overreaction,
but
> unfortunately I didnt have impulse control. I should have
kept my
> thoughts to myself and not written them here. But getting
over losing
> my grandmothers and grandfathers entire family doesnt bode
well with
> me to this day.
>
> The language is unbearable to me, thats all
>
> again mea culpa

You have every right to feel as you do, in Australia when I
was a young child there was a terrible hatred of all things
Japanese. Sadly the general population of a country/race are
not evil, the people are fed a lot of propoganda. There are
many many innocents in the countries where leaders have
caused misery to others. I can't take your pain away but I
always think of the people who aren't tyrants like their
leaders and the people who follow them.

On Mar 1, 6:31 am, Rone...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) wrote:

> Thelanguageisunbearabletome, thats all

Must be hell with a nice German name like Eisenberg :-(
Why haven't you changed it?

Bob

"Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:12uecu3h3t643bb@news.supernews.com...
> Loretta Eisenberg wrote:
>> Dear ASD, I do want to apologize for my overreaction,
> but
>> unfortunately I didnt have impulse control. I should have
> kept my
>> thoughts to myself and not written them here. But getting
> over losing
>> my grandmothers and grandfathers entire family doesnt bode
> well with
>> me to this day.
>>
>> The language is unbearable to me, thats all
>>
>> again mea culpa
>
> You have every right to feel as you do, in Australia when I
> was a young child there was a terrible hatred of all things
> Japanese. Sadly the general population of a country/race are
> not evil, the people are fed a lot of propoganda. There are
> many many innocents in the countries where leaders have
> caused misery to others. I can't take your pain away but I
> always think of the people who aren't tyrants like their
> leaders and the people who follow them.



Yes, exactly. There are always a few really horrible tyrant ringleaders
and a lot of followers who go along too blindly. We got 'em here too. In
fact one of them is our current president.

--

Best Regards,

Evelyn Ruut

Loretta Eisenberg wrote:
> Ric what a horrible story, mans inhumanity to man has
been from the
> very beginning of time and unfortunately, it will never
end.
>
> Loretta

Hatred breeds hatred, generations hold onto their hatred and
atrocities go on perpetually. Unfortunately I doubt if any
race or country will ever let go of the hatred, forgive,
(but not forget) and move on.

"Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:12ueh7lodlfo606@news.supernews.com...
> Loretta Eisenberg wrote:
>> Ric what a horrible story, mans inhumanity to man has
> been from the
>> very beginning of time and unfortunately, it will never<