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Pizza effect?
  1. #1
    Chris Malcolm Guest

    Default Pizza effect?

    "Pizza effect" is the phrase often used here to describe extra fat
    with a carby meal producing a long delayed second BG spike, often
    hours later. I never eat pizza, so haven't tested the effect of pizza
    on my BG. But I have taken long BG graphs of all my usual meals, some
    of which are fatty and carby, such as lasagne. None of them produces a
    second BG spike, unless it's very slight and more than five hours
    later. And the extra fat doesn't actually seem to delay the early BG
    spike much, if at all.

    Does anyone else notice an apparent absence of the "pizza effect"?

    --
    Chris Malcolm


  2. #2
    [email protected] Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    On 19 May 2011 13:33:07 GMT, Chris Malcolm <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >"Pizza effect" is the phrase often used here to describe extra fat
    >with a carby meal producing a long delayed second BG spike, often
    >hours later. I never eat pizza, so haven't tested the effect of pizza
    >on my BG. But I have taken long BG graphs of all my usual meals, some
    >of which are fatty and carby, such as lasagne. None of them produces a
    >second BG spike, unless it's very slight and more than five hours
    >later. And the extra fat doesn't actually seem to delay the early BG
    >spike much, if at all.
    >
    >Does anyone else notice an apparent absence of the "pizza effect"?


    I don't see any delayed second spike, just a huge first one. Pizza
    will spike me worse than anything else.

  3. #3
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?


    "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > "Pizza effect" is the phrase often used here to describe extra fat
    > with a carby meal producing a long delayed second BG spike, often
    > hours later. I never eat pizza, so haven't tested the effect of pizza
    > on my BG. But I have taken long BG graphs of all my usual meals, some
    > of which are fatty and carby, such as lasagne. None of them produces a
    > second BG spike, unless it's very slight and more than five hours
    > later. And the extra fat doesn't actually seem to delay the early BG
    > spike much, if at all.
    >
    > Does anyone else notice an apparent absence of the "pizza effect"?


    Lasagna has never caused the pizza effect for me. I think it doesn't have
    enough carbs. Thick crust pizza does though.



  4. #4
    Susan Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    x-no-archive: yes

    On 5/19/2011 9:33 AM, Chris Malcolm wrote:

    > Does anyone else notice an apparent absence of the "pizza effect"?
    >


    Yes, I've never experienced it.

    Susan

  5. #5
    ray Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    On Thu, 19 May 2011 13:33:07 +0000, Chris Malcolm wrote:

    > "Pizza effect" is the phrase often used here to describe extra fat with
    > a carby meal producing a long delayed second BG spike, often hours
    > later. I never eat pizza, so haven't tested the effect of pizza on my
    > BG. But I have taken long BG graphs of all my usual meals, some of which
    > are fatty and carby, such as lasagne. None of them produces a second BG
    > spike, unless it's very slight and more than five hours later. And the
    > extra fat doesn't actually seem to delay the early BG spike much, if at
    > all.
    >
    > Does anyone else notice an apparent absence of the "pizza effect"?


    When we have pizza, it is 'thin crust' type - generally from Papa Murphy.
    I have that with a beer and it's not a problem.

  6. #6
    Janet Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    Chris Malcolm wrote:
    > "Pizza effect" is the phrase often used here to describe extra fat
    > with a carby meal producing a long delayed second BG spike, often
    > hours later. I never eat pizza, so haven't tested the effect of pizza
    > on my BG. But I have taken long BG graphs of all my usual meals, some
    > of which are fatty and carby, such as lasagne. None of them produces a
    > second BG spike, unless it's very slight and more than five hours
    > later. And the extra fat doesn't actually seem to delay the early BG
    > spike much, if at all.
    >
    > Does anyone else notice an apparent absence of the "pizza effect"?


    I have had a very small amount of pizza-- one very small slice, of which I
    did not eat all the crust, plus the toppings from another--once since DX,
    and didn't do long term testing, so I can't say. The small amount I did have
    put me somewhere in the 130s at 1-2 hrs, IIRC. I haven't even considered
    eating lasagne.

    The only meals I have that include more than about 20 gms of carb are the
    rare occasions when I eat pasta. Typically, it might include 2 oz high
    protein pasta; half a head of broccoli rabe; about 2 crumbled, cooked and
    drained Italian pork sausage; olive oil, garlic, and grated cheese. That
    sort of meal has about 35 gms of carb. Last time I tested it, it put me in
    the 157+ range at 1-2 hrs.

    Dreamfields pasta seems to cause a delayed spike.

    But since on the very rare occasions that I have this kind of thing it is
    at dinner, and I'm not about to get up in the middle of the night to test, I
    really can't testify to a "pizza effect."



  7. #7
    impaul Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    On 2011-05-19, Julie Bove <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]..
    >> "Pizza effect" is the phrase often used here to describe extra fat
    >> with a carby meal producing a long delayed second BG spike, often
    >> hours later. I never eat pizza, so haven't tested the effect of pizza
    >> on my BG. But I have taken long BG graphs of all my usual meals, some
    >> of which are fatty and carby, such as lasagne. None of them produces a
    >> second BG spike, unless it's very slight and more than five hours
    >> later. And the extra fat doesn't actually seem to delay the early BG
    >> spike much, if at all.
    >>
    >> Does anyone else notice an apparent absence of the "pizza effect"?

    >
    > Lasagna has never caused the pizza effect for me. I think it doesn't have
    > enough carbs. Thick crust pizza does though.
    >
    >


    Try the "veggie" dish of the Bird's Eye Lightly Sauced Potatoes for
    lunch.

    Twice I had high BG 1 to 2 hrs afterwards; I did include a square of
    chocolate. 1st time before was BG @ 174; 2nd time BG at 187.
    Both times were before rowing machine but the BG dropped to
    78 & 81 respectively.

    A tuna & swiss cheese sand w/lettuce & pickles & a square of
    chocolate about 1 hr after got me only 124; the exercise dropped
    me down to about 80 again.

    I'm checking the before & after exercise BG this week then
    send it to the doc to tell her that my A1c of 4.8 is "reasonable"
    & normal" more me even tho the FBG was at the 130 & 133
    levels.

    Could be a "rowing machine" effect; a health-rider type should
    be able to do the same as it is a rower in the early stages of
    development. :-) Don't understand the big BG drop but quite happy
    with it to avoid anymore meds.


  8. #8
    Kurt Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    My how times have changed. I remember the not too distant past when
    the "Pizza Effect" was trumpted as an absolute fact because a few in
    here said that it affects their bg's that way. Now, they are flip-
    flopping. No doubt it has something to do with the
    recent...uh...discussion...about the 1 hour test being called into
    question. I contended that with eating a higher fat meal the effect of
    the highest bg might not be at 1 hour or even 2. In my experience,
    like Julie's, a thick crust pizza (with lots of gooey cheese) will
    delay the spike of the carbs significantly.

    Kurt

  9. #9
    Janet Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    Kurt wrote:
    > My how times have changed. I remember the not too distant past when
    > the "Pizza Effect" was trumpted as an absolute fact because a few in
    > here said that it affects their bg's that way. Now, they are flip-
    > flopping. No doubt it has something to do with the
    > recent...uh...discussion...about the 1 hour test being called into
    > question.


    What discussion is that?

    > I contended that with eating a higher fat meal the effect of
    > the highest bg might not be at 1 hour or even 2.


    Um, isn't that the whole point of the so-called "pizza effect"?

    I don't know what you mean by "recent," but I seem to have been hearing
    about this for the last year, since I started reading the newsgroup. And
    people have been talking about how their individual peaks varied depending
    on what they ate the whole time, too.



  10. #10
    KROM Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    I get the pizza effect from pizza and any food high in carbs covered up by
    protein and fat.

    an example would be the couple times I made chicken alfredo or tacos or
    nachos...

    bg is fine at first read but later on will rise.

    for me personally this is bad because my body doesn’t just rise later it
    sustains the rise or will crash neither of which is fun.

    so its debatable if I prefer quick and done as a spike or later and
    lingering..

    but yes I've experienced the effect.

    KROM



    "Chris Malcolm" wrote in message news:[email protected]..

    "Pizza effect" is the phrase often used here to describe extra fat
    with a carby meal producing a long delayed second BG spike, often
    hours later. I never eat pizza, so haven't tested the effect of pizza
    on my BG. But I have taken long BG graphs of all my usual meals, some
    of which are fatty and carby, such as lasagne. None of them produces a
    second BG spike, unless it's very slight and more than five hours
    later. And the extra fat doesn't actually seem to delay the early BG
    spike much, if at all.

    Does anyone else notice an apparent absence of the "pizza effect"?

    --
    Chris Malcolm


  11. #11
    KROM Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    lol..you never describe eating the foods requiring it..

    KROM


    "Susan" wrote in message news:[email protected]..

    x-no-archive: yes

    On 5/19/2011 9:33 AM, Chris Malcolm wrote:

    > Does anyone else notice an apparent absence of the "pizza effect"?
    >


    Yes, I've never experienced it.

    Susan

  12. #12
    Cheri Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    > Kurt wrote:
    >> My how times have changed. I remember the not too distant past when
    >> the "Pizza Effect" was trumpted as an absolute fact because a few in
    >> here said that it affects their bg's that way. Now, they are flip-
    >> flopping. No doubt it has something to do with the
    >> recent...uh...discussion...about the 1 hour test being called into
    >> question.


    It is an absolute fact for them.

    Cheri


  13. #13
    Susan Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    x-no-archive: yes

    On 5/19/2011 2:42 PM, Janet wrote:

    > What discussion is that?


    I have never said it happened to me, only that it was documented in a
    study by that name. Kurt denied its existence, AFAIK.

    >
    >> I contended that with eating a higher fat meal the effect of
    >> the highest bg might not be at 1 hour or even 2.

    >
    > Um, isn't that the whole point of the so-called "pizza effect"?
    >
    > I don't know what you mean by "recent," but I seem to have been hearing
    > about this for the last year, since I started reading the newsgroup. And
    > people have been talking about how their individual peaks varied depending
    > on what they ate the whole time, too.
    >
    >


    I, OTOH, have always reported no slowing of post meal rise from fat
    content or mixed meals.

    Susan

  14. #14
    Ozlover Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    To the respondents:

    Note that Chris talks about a SECOND spike, not just ONE DELAYED spike.

    Chris Malcolm <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Pizza effect" is the phrase often used here to describe extra fat
    > with a carby meal producing a long delayed second BG spike, often
    > hours later. I never eat pizza, so haven't tested the effect of pizza
    > on my BG. But I have taken long BG graphs of all my usual meals, some
    > of which are fatty and carby, such as lasagne. None of them produces a
    > second BG spike, unless it's very slight and more than five hours
    > later. And the extra fat doesn't actually seem to delay the early BG
    > spike much, if at all.
    >
    > Does anyone else notice an apparent absence of the "pizza effect"?
    >
    > --
    > Chris Malcolm


    --
    Frank Slootweg, "You can either agree with me or be wrong."

  15. #15
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?


    "impaul" <reader@fake_site.invalid> wrote in message
    news:ir3ea0$cqj$[email protected]..
    > On 2011-05-19, Julie Bove <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> "Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]..
    >>> "Pizza effect" is the phrase often used here to describe extra fat
    >>> with a carby meal producing a long delayed second BG spike, often
    >>> hours later. I never eat pizza, so haven't tested the effect of pizza
    >>> on my BG. But I have taken long BG graphs of all my usual meals, some
    >>> of which are fatty and carby, such as lasagne. None of them produces a
    >>> second BG spike, unless it's very slight and more than five hours
    >>> later. And the extra fat doesn't actually seem to delay the early BG
    >>> spike much, if at all.
    >>>
    >>> Does anyone else notice an apparent absence of the "pizza effect"?

    >>
    >> Lasagna has never caused the pizza effect for me. I think it doesn't
    >> have
    >> enough carbs. Thick crust pizza does though.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Try the "veggie" dish of the Bird's Eye Lightly Sauced Potatoes for
    > lunch.


    I've never eaten that nor would I be likely to. I don't usually buy frozen
    foods. I did look it up though.

    http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nu...e-butter-sauce

    140 calories and 29g of carb.
    >
    > Twice I had high BG 1 to 2 hrs afterwards; I did include a square of
    > chocolate. 1st time before was BG @ 174; 2nd time BG at 187.
    > Both times were before rowing machine but the BG dropped to
    > 78 & 81 respectively.


    Hardly a spike at all and your BG was too high prior to eating. The rowing
    machine could cause a drop. You should have eaten protein with this meal.
    >
    > A tuna & swiss cheese sand w/lettuce & pickles & a square of
    > chocolate about 1 hr after got me only 124; the exercise dropped
    > me down to about 80 again.


    Most likely because you had protein. Also you don't say what kind of bread
    you ate. Breads vary widely.
    >
    > I'm checking the before & after exercise BG this week then
    > send it to the doc to tell her that my A1c of 4.8 is "reasonable"
    > & normal" more me even tho the FBG was at the 130 & 133
    > levels.


    IMO it doesn't matter what your A1c is if you are getting numbers that are
    too high.
    >
    > Could be a "rowing machine" effect; a health-rider type should
    > be able to do the same as it is a rower in the early stages of
    > development. :-) Don't understand the big BG drop but quite happy
    > with it to avoid anymore meds.


    I understand it. Excercise can drop BG. Doesn't for me (now) but does for
    some people. It used to drop me to hypo.



  16. #16
    Janet Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    Susan wrote:

    <snip>

    > I, OTOH, have always reported no slowing of post meal rise from fat
    > content or mixed meals.
    >
    > Susan


    Personally, I don't have the interest or energy to track every single thing
    everyone reports about what they eat, how much exercise they get, or whether
    they do or do not like their current doctor and pounce on them for perceived
    variations.



  17. #17
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?


    "Ozlover" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > To the respondents:
    >
    > Note that Chris talks about a SECOND spike, not just ONE DELAYED spike.


    I did not notice that but... That's not the pizza effect.



  18. #18
    Janet Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    Julie Bove wrote:
    >> Twice I had high BG 1 to 2 hrs afterwards; I did include a square of
    >> chocolate. 1st time before was BG @ 174; 2nd time BG at 187.
    >> Both times were before rowing machine but the BG dropped to
    >> 78 & 81 respectively.

    >
    > Hardly a spike at all


    Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.



  19. #19
    Susan Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    x-no-archive: yes

    On 5/19/2011 5:20 PM, Janet wrote:

    > Personally, I don't have the interest or energy to track every single thing
    > everyone reports about what they eat, how much exercise they get, or whether
    > they do or do not like their current doctor and pounce on them for perceived
    > variations.
    >
    >


    Well, you could relax if you did, since there are full timers on that
    job already. ;-)

    Susan

  20. #20
    Susan Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    x-no-archive: yes

    On 5/19/2011 6:19 PM, Janet wrote:

    > Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.
    >
    >


    Those are huge spikes if you're in good control.

    Susan

  21. #21
    Janet Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    Susan wrote:
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > On 5/19/2011 5:20 PM, Janet wrote:
    >
    >> Personally, I don't have the interest or energy to track every
    >> single thing everyone reports about what they eat, how much exercise
    >> they get, or whether they do or do not like their current doctor and
    >> pounce on them for perceived variations.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Well, you could relax if you did, since there are full timers on that
    > job already. ;-)
    >
    > Susan


    Indeed.

    Just for fun, we can start a vigorous debate about the meaning of the word
    "job." I will claim that you are a "liar" because you are implying that
    people are paid to do this, since that is my personal interpretation of the
    word "job."



  22. #22
    Susan Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    x-no-archive: yes

    On 5/19/2011 7:48 PM, Janet wrote:

    > Indeed.
    >
    > Just for fun, we can start a vigorous debate about the meaning of the word
    > "job." I will claim that you are a "liar" because you are implying that
    > people are paid to do this, since that is my personal interpretation of the
    > word "job."
    >
    >


    I'll go on record as considering it 100% voluntary by those with no lives.

    Susan

  23. #23
    Janet Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    Susan wrote:
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > On 5/19/2011 7:48 PM, Janet wrote:
    >
    >> Indeed.
    >>
    >> Just for fun, we can start a vigorous debate about the meaning of
    >> the word "job." I will claim that you are a "liar" because you are
    >> implying that people are paid to do this, since that is my personal
    >> interpretation of the word "job."
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I'll go on record as considering it 100% voluntary by those with no
    > lives.
    > Susan


    Dang! You're no fun!



  24. #24
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?


    "Janet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > Julie Bove wrote:
    >>> Twice I had high BG 1 to 2 hrs afterwards; I did include a square of
    >>> chocolate. 1st time before was BG @ 174; 2nd time BG at 187.
    >>> Both times were before rowing machine but the BG dropped to
    >>> 78 & 81 respectively.

    >>
    >> Hardly a spike at all

    >
    > Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.


    Actually we don't know if it's a spike or not. I mis-read what he wrote. I
    thought he said he was 174 prior to eating and 187 after. I see that isn't
    the case. But... He didn't say what he was prior to eating. So we don't
    know if it's a spike or not. It's only a spike if it goes up. Many is the
    time my BG is too high before I eat and still too high but maybe slightly
    lower after I eat.



  25. #25
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?


    "Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > On 5/19/2011 6:19 PM, Janet wrote:
    >
    >> Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Those are huge spikes if you're in good control.


    You're not in good control if you are seeing those numbers.



  26. #26
    Janet Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    Julie Bove wrote:
    > "Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]..
    >> x-no-archive: yes
    >>
    >> On 5/19/2011 6:19 PM, Janet wrote:
    >>
    >>> Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Those are huge spikes if you're in good control.

    >
    > You're not in good control if you are seeing those numbers.


    Um, even if one is in good control, eating the wrong thing--like a meal
    containing 45 gms or more of carb--can easily cause a big spike. Being in
    good control doesn't mean that one has ceased to be diabetic.



  27. #27
    Ozgirl Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?



    "Janet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > Julie Bove wrote:
    >> "Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]..
    >>> x-no-archive: yes
    >>>
    >>> On 5/19/2011 6:19 PM, Janet wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Those are huge spikes if you're in good control.

    >>
    >> You're not in good control if you are seeing those numbers.

    >
    > Um, even if one is in good control, eating the wrong thing--like a
    > meal containing 45 gms or more of carb--can easily cause a big spike.
    > Being in good control doesn't mean that one has ceased to be diabetic.


    Its a good indication of the state of one's insulin resistance.


  28. #28
    Kurt Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    On May 19, 1:37*pm, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > On 5/19/2011 2:42 PM, Janet wrote:
    >
    > > What discussion is that?

    >
    > I have never said it happened to me, only that it was documented in a
    > study by that name. *Kurt denied its existence, AFAIK.


    How would you know. You have me in double secret
    detention...uh...killfile.

    > >> I contended that with eating a higher fat meal the effect of
    > >> the highest bg might not be at 1 hour or even 2.

    >
    > > Um, isn't that the whole point of the so-called "pizza effect"?

    >
    > > I don't know what you mean by "recent," but I seem to have been hearing
    > > about this for the last year, since I started reading the newsgroup. And
    > > people have been talking about how their individual peaks varied depending
    > > on what they ate the whole time, too.

    >
    > I, OTOH, have always reported no slowing of post meal rise from fat
    > content or mixed meals.


    That's no surprise since you advocate eating an overly high fat diet.

    Kurt

  29. #29
    Kurt Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    On May 19, 12:21*pm, "Cheri" <cher...@newsguy.com> wrote:
    > > Kurt wrote:
    > >> My how times have changed. I remember the not too distant past when
    > >> the "Pizza Effect" was trumpted as an absolute fact because a few in
    > >> here said that it affects their bg's that way. Now, they are flip-
    > >> flopping. No doubt it has something to do with the
    > >> recent...uh...discussion...about the 1 hour test being called into
    > >> question.

    >
    > It is an absolute fact for them.
    >
    > Cheri


    And now it's being denied.

    Kurt

  30. #30
    Kurt Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    On May 19, 3:35*pm, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > On 5/19/2011 6:19 PM, Janet wrote:
    >
    > > Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.

    >
    > Those are huge spikes if you're in good control.


    Not if you're a T1.

    Kurt

  31. #31
    Kurt Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    On May 19, 5:28*pm, "Janet" <boxh...@maine.rr.com> wrote:
    > Julie Bove wrote:
    > > "Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]..
    > >> x-no-archive: yes

    >
    > >> On 5/19/2011 6:19 PM, Janet wrote:

    >
    > >>> Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.

    >
    > >> Those are huge spikes if you're in good control.

    >
    > > You're not in good control if you are seeing those numbers.

    >
    > Um, even if one is in good control, eating the wrong thing--like a meal
    > containing 45 gms or more of carb--can easily cause a big spike. Being in
    > good control doesn't mean that one has ceased to be diabetic.


    The problem is when someone makes a statement of fact that eating a
    meal containing 45 grams or more of carb is the "wrong" thing. Maybe
    it is in your opinion, but it is far from being true for others.

    Kurt

  32. #32
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?


    "Janet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > Julie Bove wrote:
    >> "Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]..
    >>> x-no-archive: yes
    >>>
    >>> On 5/19/2011 6:19 PM, Janet wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Those are huge spikes if you're in good control.

    >>
    >> You're not in good control if you are seeing those numbers.

    >
    > Um, even if one is in good control, eating the wrong thing--like a meal
    > containing 45 gms or more of carb--can easily cause a big spike. Being in
    > good control doesn't mean that one has ceased to be diabetic.


    How can one have good control and still have a big spike? The two do not go
    hand in hand.

    Also many men *can* and do eat that amount of carb in a meal. I do eat that
    amount of carb in my dinner and most of the time it does work for me. I do
    not usually have spikes. And yet I am clearly not in good control. But I
    do have gastroparesis and that is *why* I do not have good control.



  33. #33
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    Kurt wrote:
    > On May 19, 5:28 pm, "Janet" <boxh...@maine.rr.com> wrote:
    >> Julie Bove wrote:
    >>> "Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected]..
    >>>> x-no-archive: yes

    >>
    >>>> On 5/19/2011 6:19 PM, Janet wrote:

    >>
    >>>>> Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.

    >>
    >>>> Those are huge spikes if you're in good control.

    >>
    >>> You're not in good control if you are seeing those numbers.

    >>
    >> Um, even if one is in good control, eating the wrong thing--like a
    >> meal containing 45 gms or more of carb--can easily cause a big
    >> spike. Being in good control doesn't mean that one has ceased to be
    >> diabetic.

    >
    > The problem is when someone makes a statement of fact that eating a
    > meal containing 45 grams or more of carb is the "wrong" thing. Maybe
    > it is in your opinion, but it is far from being true for others.


    Indeed.



  34. #34
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    Kurt wrote:
    > On May 19, 3:35 pm, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
    >> x-no-archive: yes
    >>
    >> On 5/19/2011 6:19 PM, Janet wrote:
    >>
    >>> Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.

    >>
    >> Those are huge spikes if you're in good control.

    >
    > Not if you're a T1.


    Explain to me how they are spikes? We do not know what his BG was prior to
    eating.

    Here are some examples from my log for the past few days.

    Prior to eating, 274. After eating, 262. Not a spike. It went down. Also
    not a good number, I know. Also by bedtime it was up to 301 and the
    following day I threw up. Clearly (to me anyway) my gastroparesis was
    acting up.

    Yesterday after I threw up my numbers were much better. Woke up to 191 but
    2 hours after eating was at 115. I did eat about 30g of carbs for
    breakfast. Was 142 before dinner. I think these numbers went up because I
    didn't eat anything between breakfast and dinner. But I could be wrong.
    After dinner was 159. My dinner was a tossed salad with all kinds of
    veggies and some kidney and garbanzo beans. Yes my numbers went up, but I
    wouldn't really call that a spike either. Because they didn't go up that
    much. But it went up to 204 by the time I got up this morning.

    Clearly one size does not fit all when it comes to diet. Because of my
    gastroparesis, if I eat easily digested foods like more refined carbs, my
    numbers stay lower. If I eat too much fiber or fat, they go up.




  35. #35
    Susan Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    x-no-archive: yes

    On 5/19/2011 7:55 PM, Janet wrote:

    > Dang! You're no fun!
    >
    >


    Just think of me at the voluntary resident buzzkill. ;-)

    Susan

  36. #36
    Susan Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    x-no-archive: yes

    On 5/19/2011 8:28 PM, Janet wrote:

    > Um, even if one is in good control, eating the wrong thing--like a meal
    > containing 45 gms or more of carb--can easily cause a big spike. Being in
    > good control doesn't mean that one has ceased to be diabetic.
    >
    >


    I actually heard that WHOOSH from here.

    A BIG SPIKE has to come from much lower.

    Any well controlled diabetic is one meal or snack away from producing a
    big spike. I haven't seen numbers close to that in years, that I can recall.

    Susan

  37. #37
    Julie Bove Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?


    "Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > On 5/19/2011 8:28 PM, Janet wrote:
    >
    >> Um, even if one is in good control, eating the wrong thing--like a meal
    >> containing 45 gms or more of carb--can easily cause a big spike. Being in
    >> good control doesn't mean that one has ceased to be diabetic.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I actually heard that WHOOSH from here.
    >
    > A BIG SPIKE has to come from much lower.
    >
    > Any well controlled diabetic is one meal or snack away from producing a
    > big spike. I haven't seen numbers close to that in years, that I can
    > recall.


    Then if they *eat* that meal or snack, they're not in control. Are they?
    Big WHOOSH on you!



  38. #38
    Tiger Lily Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    On 5/19/2011 11:59 AM, Kurt wrote:
    > My how times have changed. I remember the not too distant past when
    > the "Pizza Effect" was trumpted as an absolute fact because a few in
    > here said that it affects their bg's that way. Now, they are flip-
    > flopping. No doubt it has something to do with the
    > recent...uh...discussion...about the 1 hour test being called into
    > question. I contended that with eating a higher fat meal the effect of
    > the highest bg might not be at 1 hour or even 2. In my experience,
    > like Julie's, a thick crust pizza (with lots of gooey cheese) will
    > delay the spike of the carbs significantly.
    >
    > Kurt


    yup, i have to shoot 2/3 insulin before pizza then the remaining 1/3
    insulin about 90 min after eating the pizza to prevent a hypo or a high
    bg level

    this has been discussed many times and mostly folk on insulin have to do
    this

    the pumpers use a ?? square wave bolus or something?

    kate

  39. #39
    [email protected] Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    On Thu, 19 May 2011 18:11:59 -0700, "Julie Bove"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>>> Those are huge spikes if you're in good control.
    >>>
    >>> You're not in good control if you are seeing those numbers.

    >>
    >> Um, even if one is in good control, eating the wrong thing--like a meal
    >> containing 45 gms or more of carb--can easily cause a big spike. Being in
    >> good control doesn't mean that one has ceased to be diabetic.

    >
    >How can one have good control and still have a big spike? The two do not go
    >hand in hand.
    >


    I'm 40+ years as a T2, 13 years on insulin. I routinely have spikes
    into the 200s yet maintain an A1c of 6.6 and have no complications.
    How do I do it? I dunno, you tell me. I thought we were all in
    agreement that diabetes is a very personal disease. "My body, my
    science experiment" and all that.


  40. #40
    W. Baker Guest

    Default Re: Pizza effect?

    Julie Bove <juliebove@fron[email protected]> wrote:

    : "Janet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    : news:[email protected]..
    : > Julie Bove wrote:
    : >> "Susan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    : >> news:[email protected]..
    : >>> x-no-archive: yes
    : >>>
    : >>> On 5/19/2011 6:19 PM, Janet wrote:
    : >>>
    : >>>> Really? By my standards 174 and 187 are huge spikes.
    : >>>>
    : >>>>
    : >>>
    : >>> Those are huge spikes if you're in good control.
    : >>
    : >> You're not in good control if you are seeing those numbers.
    : >
    : > Um, even if one is in good control, eating the wrong thing--like a meal
    : > containing 45 gms or more of carb--can easily cause a big spike. Being in
    : > good control doesn't mean that one has ceased to be diabetic.

    : How can one have good control and still have a big spike? The two do not go
    : hand in hand.

    : Also many men *can* and do eat that amount of carb in a meal. I do eat that
    : amount of carb in my dinner and most of the time it does work for me. I do
    : not usually have spikes. And yet I am clearly not in good control. But I
    : do have gastroparesis and that is *why* I do not have good control.

    Julie, if someone is in good control regularly, but watching carbs,
    exercising, taking their meds, etc and testing frequently to sese what is
    happening with their blood sugar to keep it in control, but makes a
    mistake and drinks a great big glass of regular soda instead of diet soda
    they could easily have a big spike. this does not mean they are not
    regularly in good control, but that they had a single bad event due to a
    istake or a miscounting or just not knowing the effect of a particular
    food this one time. It does not mean that they have lost all control or
    their regular good control.

    Loosing control would mean just going to eat whatever you felt like or to
    not watch your weight, carbs, bgs and exercise program so the bgs no
    longer stayed in range most of the time. It woudl not be a single episode
    of makign a mistake or having a piece of birthday cake on your birthday
    and them immediately going back onto your usual careful regimin. Do you
    only consider unattainable perfection as good control?

    Wendy



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