A puzzle - diabetes not treatable with diet

Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
has just been diagnosed with diabetes.

Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
repeating it to me!

Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
dietary front.

I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
no matter how many tablets he takes.

Can anyone work out what is going on!

convicted friend Helen Back wrote:
>
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForHelen
>
> Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
> He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
> major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
> has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
> Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
> he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
> diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> repeating it to me!
>
> Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
> of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
> vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
> than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
> or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
> history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
> dietary front.
>
> I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
> he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
> That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
> no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
> Can anyone work out what is going on!

You can't get folks to eat what they dislike and as a general rule,
what tastes bad to someone is bad for him/her.

If you wish to help your friend, you would be smarter to teach him
that hunger is wonderful and that there is an optimal amount of food:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart

Here is a simple parable given in hopes of promoting greater
understanding:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable

<><

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels

"Helen Back" <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:02bc94de-7738-4ef7-b86c-3c4494446fc5@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
> He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
> major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
> has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
> Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
> he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
> diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> repeating it to me!
>
> Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
> of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
> vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
> than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
> or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
> history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
> dietary front.
>
> I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
> he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
> That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
> no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
> Can anyone work out what is going on!

Most likely the Dr. he is seeing didn't tell him much except to take the
pills and didn't hook him up with a dietician.

Or... He could be like me. Tried the low carb approach and found it didn't
work.

That being said... I do have to watch what I eat. There is no way I could
eat a couple of cookies or a pastry or a huge bowl of pasta and not have a
BG spike.

Hi Helen,

It's possible that he has too much damage for his diabetes to be controlled
"solely" by diet. Even so, you are exactly right, both diet and exercise
play a HUGE roll in controlling diabetes no matter what meds need to be
added.

From your description of his likes and dislikes, however, it seems doubtful
that he's given diet modification much of a shot.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5

"Helen Back" <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:02bc94de-7738-4ef7-b86c-3c4494446fc5@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
> He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
> major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
> has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
> Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
> he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
> diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> repeating it to me!
>
> Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
> of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
> vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
> than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
> or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
> history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
> dietary front.
>
> I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
> he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
> That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
> no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
> Can anyone work out what is going on!

Helen Back wrote in message

>Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
>diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets,
which
>he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
>diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
>repeating it to me!


I don't really know what's going on since it's a small bit of info
Helen, but I think that the fact that he's taking medication and
doesn't know the name of it, probably speaks volumes. If you know him
well enough, try to get some more information and post it. How many
times does he test? Does he test? What kind of medication? What does
he eat? I hope you can get some answers for him. Take care.

Cheri

"Helen Back" <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:02bc94de-7738-4ef7-b86c-3c4494446fc5@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
> He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
> major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
> has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
> Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
> he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
> diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> repeating it to me!
>
> Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
> of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
> vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
> than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
> or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
> history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
> dietary front.
>
> I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
> he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
> That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
> no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
> Can anyone work out what is going on!

The resistance to an evident need for lifestyle change is a powerful force.
It's amazing how people can rationalise themselves into believing anything,
or, in this case, out of believing what is obvious to most of us.

I have a diabetic friend, grossly overweight, quaffing down huge amounts of
the wrong foods. When confronted by the need to exercise, and when someone
suggests my example of exercising, his response is "aaah yes, but Henry's
diabetes is different..... mine isn't as bad" "different"? "as bad"?

Henry Mydlarz

I went to a party last Saturday (I usually dread it), and luckily
there were enough vegetables for me to just have that. I ate
meat before I went.

At one point I was standing by the paella, waiting for my chance
to move around the table, and this lady I didn't know said "paella!"
to me, as if I should have some. I said I couldn't have it because
of being diabetic, and she said she was too, and went ahead and
had a big serving of rice. Then she glanced at me and said that
she had to take her meds when she got home. The polite thing
was to say nothing. but sheesh. I hope she doesn't eat that way
all the time.

I'm sorry about your friend Helen. I hope there's a polite
way to start to inform him.

On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back
<SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
>He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
>major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
>has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
>Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
>diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
>he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
>diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
>repeating it to me!
>
>Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
>of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
>vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
>than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
>or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
>history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
>dietary front.
>
>I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
>he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
>That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
>no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
>Can anyone work out what is going on!

It's not a puzzle. We all see it too often.

Sadly, it is either ignorance or denial. He may not be able
to treat it solely with diet, but the right menu could
certainly complement or even minimise the medications.

You can't force him to do anything. Nagging, haranguing,
preaching will only cause him to resist.

Just set the example and let him know that if he ever wants
more information you're available.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile?
and Cambodia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html

x-no-archive: yes

Alan S wrote:

>
> It's not a puzzle. We all see it too often.
>
> Sadly, it is either ignorance or denial. He may not be able
> to treat it solely with diet, but the right menu could
> certainly complement or even minimise the medications.


Or, possibly, he could be one of the many diabetics with undiagnosed
Cushing's syndrome. I had a recent month of high cortisol during which
my lowest carb meals caused shockingly high numbers, like 186 at two
hours, and my A1c during that month had climbed to a high of 5.9%.

High cortisol, like steroid drugs, causes severe spiking.

Susan

"Helen Back" <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:02bc94de-7738-4ef7-b86c-3c4494446fc5@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
> He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
> major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
> has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
> Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
> he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
> diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> repeating it to me!
>
> Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
> of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
> vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
> than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
> or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
> history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
> dietary front.
>
> I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
> he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
> That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
> no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
> Can anyone work out what is going on!

Yes, he is just ignorant of the facts. Perhaps he needs to go to an educator
as well as the doctor at this point. Like a lot of type 2 diabetics they
think the drugs are the thing that will control. Not his fault, his doctor
probably didn't explain well.

On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back
<SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
>He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
>major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
>has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
>Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
>diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
>he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
>diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
>repeating it to me!

G'day G'day Helen,

It's a wonderful example of how illogical people can be.

Presumably he has been told by his doctor that he doesn't have
"borderline" diabetes. Hey, I didn't dream up the "borderline"
diabetes description. It is one that seems to have been part of the
misleading conversational vocabulary kit used by some doctors of a
previous generation. Roughly speaking the first option for
controlling T2 diabetes is exercise. If that doesn't work then the
next option is exercise and diet. The next option is exercise, diet
and oral medication. Then exercise, diet and insulin with or without
oral medication. As Cheri has pointed out the fact he doesn't know
the name of the tablets he is on speaks volumes. The bloke isn't that
fast on the uptake. He believes there are at least two types of
diabetes, one that is controlled by diet and one that requires
medication. It is what is called a false dichotomy. Sorry about the
big word. A false dichotomy is where one believes there are two
separate classes when in fact the classes overlap. Most people
benefit from exercise and diet and medication. Some need only
exercise and diet. The classes overlap. Some of those who would
benefit from exercise, diet and meds can get good control from
exercise and diet alone if they really put their heart and soul and a
heck of a lot of time and energy into research.

Why does he keep repeating it to you to the point where to unload it
as it were you're repeating it to us?
(I'm impressed that you realise what is happening for you.)

Well my guess it is a protection mechanism. He doesn't want to change
his lifestyle, not one little scrap. Just because people act stupidly
doesn't mean they aren't cunning. By repeating his mantra that his
diabetes is the sort that is controlled by tablets he stops people
from suggesting dietary and exercise changes.

Neat eh. Time for sneaking admiration.

Stupid from a future suffering point of view but quite clever all at
the same time. People who follow the "take a tablet" and continue with
the lifestyle that probably helped get them there in the first place
are likely to see the later stages of the diabetic progression sooner
rather than later.

We often inclined to make the mistake of assuming stupid people aren't
clever. That is our mistake unless we are aware of it.

It reminds me of a Plunket nurse who was asked about how the adults in
the area where she practiced dealt with Easter. "They shoot more
insulin" was her realistic reply born of years of past experience.

As others have elegantly pointed out you aren't going to change him.
It is like smoking. Teenage smokers actually OVER estimate the years
lost due to smoking so it is pointless pointing out how dangerous it
is. Horrible as it may seem, one has to protect oneself first and
foremost. Put bluntly it makes sense to tell him that ALL types of T2
diabetes require exercise and a change in diet to reduce the incidence
of complications. Let that be your mantra.

"If you are unwilling to make those changes then I am not the sort of
person who can bear to watch it happening like it did for your
brother. One brother was enough. So sorry, I can longer be your
friend."

Please don't hate me for appearing to be so heartless making what at
first sight seems like such a heartless suggestion. I'm actually
thinking of you and considering what you can do to reduce your
suffering when someone else, an adult no less in full control of their
faculties is not going to accept responsibility for themselves.

Maybe ASD could take a vote on the matter. Whether you actually
continue to keep an eye on him is not the point. What you tell him
with regard to how much you buy into his little charade is.


>Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
>of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
>vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
>than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
>or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
>history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
>dietary front.

The consultant probably has him pretty well summed up. He undoubtedly
wants him to realise his condition is serious. In that he has
succeeded. However, something has backfired. Part of the real
message hasn't gotten through.

>I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
>he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.

Good on you. What you've said is spot on.

>That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
>no matter how many tablets he takes.

Absolutely. Without changing exercise and diet he'll soon need more
tablets and soon they won't work. Of course he'll blame the type of
diabetes he has on his needing insulin. That's his game.

>Can anyone work out what is going on!

It's easy to make an educated guess about most of it.

Some details for example how much the consultant has said about the
importance of exercise and dietary change is something we don't know.
The consultant may have decided to cut his/her losses for all we know.
What is important here, isn't the bloke who doesn't intend to change,
it is you. Don't any of us forget it. You are the one actively doing
something about your own diabetes. You are the one asking questions
and contributing to the health of others. You matter.

Best wishes,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

http://HeartMDPhD.com/OAF

<><

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels

"dumb_fishie99" <dumb_fishie99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b071c20f-e36c-4452-bcff-27f9f91efa76@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> ...and this lady I didn't know said "paella!" to me, as if I should have
> some. I said I couldn't have it because of being diabetic,
>

I just say "not for me right now...." or something similar; I might even say
"yeah, it does look good, maybe later...." I do not try to explain, excuse,
or justify my decision about it. I don't think it's necessary, though I will
discuss it at times -- I'm not hiding it, just not making a point of it.

There are plenty of reasons I might not have some particular dish at a
party, lots of them having nothing to do with diabetes. I don't feel it
necessary to explain those either.

Besides, in my mind it's not "can't" but "won't" (or maybe just not right
now).
bj

if it was a true palla with shrimps etc i would picked those out leavign the
rice..lol

KROM

"dumb_fishie99" <dumb_fishie99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b071c20f-e36c-4452-bcff-27f9f91efa76@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> I went to a party last Saturday (I usually dread it), and luckily
> there were enough vegetables for me to just have that. I ate
> meat before I went.
>
> At one point I was standing by the paella, waiting for my chance
> to move around the table, and this lady I didn't know said "paella!"
> to me, as if I should have some. I said I couldn't have it because
> of being diabetic, and she said she was too, and went ahead and
> had a big serving of rice. Then she glanced at me and said that
> she had to take her meds when she got home. The polite thing
> was to say nothing. but sheesh. I hope she doesn't eat that way
> all the time.
>
> I'm sorry about your friend Helen. I hope there's a polite
> way to start to inform him.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back
<SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Can anyone work out what is going on!

He's ostriching. Sorry you're going to have to go through that again


Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back
<SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
> He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
> major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
> has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
> Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
> he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
> diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> repeating it to me!
>
> Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
> of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
> vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
> than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
> or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
> history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
> dietary front.
>
> I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
> he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
> That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
> no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
> Can anyone work out what is going on!

Like all things in health, each person reacts differently to any
regimen or medication. There is no one-shoe-fits-all.

As to diet, you are correct to a point. If someone is diagnosed
early, there is a very good chance that diet and exercise will fully
control the condition. Maybe after a few months of pills to get
started and provide a safety cushion.

But, my Endro told me that...

1) At some point, as we get older, diet alone tends not work.

2) If diagnoses comes later in the progression of diabetes, diet
alone does not work.

In my case, both 1 & 2 apply. Even though I eat a very controlled
diet, I still need my meds.

Note I said "diet alone" but a good diet is still essential for
diabetics. Meds or no.


--
======= Tecknomage =======
San Diego, CA
"The Mage Soapbox" blog at
magesoapbox.blogspot.com

On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back
<SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
>He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
>major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
>has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
>Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
>diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
>he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
>diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
>repeating it to me!
>
>Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
>of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
>vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
>than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
>or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
>history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
>dietary front.
>
>I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
>he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
>That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
>no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
>Can anyone work out what is going on!


He's either in denial of the reality of his disease or he has an idiot
medical team that has provided him with no diabetes education or both.

Some people are like that. And he's not going to listen to you any
time soon, even though what you told him was correct about diet and
exercise being a major part of diabetes care, regardless of the type
of diabetic you are.

--
Måck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/type1and2/
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
http://www.ratbags.com/dechunging/


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins


DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
..

On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back
<SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
>He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
>major hypos before he passed. Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
>has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
>Here's the puzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
>diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
>he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
>diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
>repeating it to me!
>
>Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
>of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
>vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
>than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
>or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
>history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
>dietary front.
>
>I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
>he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
>That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
>no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
>Can anyone work out what is going on!

Could be one of the MODYs

http://www.projects.ex.ac.uk/diabetesgenes/index.htm

some of them are controlled rather well by small doses of sulfs.

Either the doctor has oversimplified the message or he has chosen only
to hear half of it. Or of course both . . .

On Fri, 02 May 2008 12:33:48 +0100, Nicky
<ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote:

>He's ostriching.

Like the new verb. Too much of it about, time for the right
word to appear:-)


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile?
and Cambodia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html

On Fri, 02 May 2008 04:38:37 -0700, Tecknomage
<tecknode@NOSPAM.com> wrote:

>As to diet, you are correct to a point. If someone is diagnosed
>early, there is a very good chance that diet and exercise will fully
>control the condition. Maybe after a few months of pills to get
>started and provide a safety cushion.
>
>But, my Endro told me that...
>
>1) At some point, as we get older, diet alone tends not work.
>
>2) If diagnoses comes later in the progression of diabetes, diet
>alone does not work.
>
>In my case, both 1 & 2 apply. Even though I eat a very controlled
>diet, I still need my meds.
>
>Note I said "diet alone" but a good diet is still essential for
>diabetics. Meds or no.

All very true, subject to some definition for a "good diet".

Could you describe your "very controlled diet" in terms of
menu or macronutrients?


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:Is Testing Worthwhile?
and Cambodia
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/2008/03/cambodia.html

On 1 May, 18:16, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
> Helen Back wrote in message
> >Here's thepuzzle! *He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> >diet, only medication". *He is not on insulin just some tablets,
> which
> >he cant remember the name of. *He has to take the tablets because the
> >diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> >repeating it to me!
>
> I don't really know what's going on since it's a small bit of info
> Helen, but I think that the fact that he's taking medication and
> doesn't know the name of it, probably speaks volumes. If you know him
> well enough, try to get some more information and post it. How many
> times does he test? Does he test? *What kind of medication? What does
> he eat? I hope you can get some answers for him. Take care.
>
> Cheri

He wasnt given a meter!! I couldnt believe it!!

The update is, he was sent to a diabetic nurse locally who did tell
him he needs to modify his diet so there's the first contradiction!
Also, he has been referred to a dietician and is having a retinopathy
eye check at the hospital (WHICH IS MORE THAN I WAS BLOODY OFFERED!).

I cant make sense of that! This is a guy who will have no intentions
of following advice and he gets the works!!

I've attempted to get him to write down the name of his medication but
he keeps forgetting and says it begins with "b" and is a very long
word!

Oh well....

On 1 May, 21:45, dumb_fishie99 <dumb_fishi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I went to a party last Saturday (I usually dread it), and luckily
> there were enough vegetables for me to just have that. * I ate
> meat before I went.
>
> At one point I was standing by the paella, waiting for my chance
> to move around the table, and this lady I didn't know said "paella!"
> to me, as if I should have some. * I said I couldn't have it because
> of being diabetic, and she said she was too, and went ahead and
> had a big serving of rice. *Then she glanced at me and said that
> she had to take her meds when she got home. The polite thing
> was to say nothing. but sheesh. *I hope she doesn't eat that way
> all the time.
>
> I'm sorry about your friend Helen. I hope there's a polite
> way to start to inform him.

I've tried but I think we have all experienced the kind of people who
wish to stay in denial because, in their hearts and minds, the
changes are too hard to make! Yes?

I've seen at least two people die from diabetic complications now - do
I have to witness more I ask myself? Perhaps this is simply a
constant sign being shown to me that if I do the right things, I wont
experience it myself personally.

On 1 May, 21:32, "hemyd" <myd!!!...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> "Helen Back" <SiriusC...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:02bc94de-7738-4ef7-b86c-3c4494446fc5@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
> > He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
> > major hypos before he passed. *Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
> > has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
> > Here's thepuzzle! *He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> > diet, only medication". *He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
> > he cant remember the name of. *He has to take the tablets because the
> > diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> > repeating it to me!
>
> > Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
> > of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
> > vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
> > than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
> > or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
> > history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
> > dietary front.
>
> > I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
> > he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
> > That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
> > no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
> > Can anyone work out what is going on!
>
> The resistance to an evident need for lifestyle change is a powerful force..
> It's amazing how people can rationalise themselves into believing anything,
> or, in this case, out of believing what is obvious to most of us.
>
> I have a diabetic friend, grossly overweight, quaffing down huge amounts of
> the wrong foods. When confronted by the need to exercise, and when someone
> suggests my example of exercising, his response is "aaah yes, but Henry's
> diabetes is different..... mine isn't as bad" "different"? "as bad"?
>
> Henry Mydlarz

I was convinced he said "its not controlled by diet" so he can justify
carrying on his bad eating habits.

His whole family are unhealthy through either the lack of wishing to
understand a healthier lifestyle or are simply incapable of
understanding.

On 1 May, 23:31, Alan S <loralgtweightandca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back
>
>
>
>
>
> <SiriusC...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> >Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
> >He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
> >major hypos before he passed. *Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
> >has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
> >Here's thepuzzle! *He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> >diet, only medication". *He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
> >he cant remember the name of. *He has to take the tablets because the
> >diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> >repeating it to me!
>
> >Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
> >of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
> >vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
> >than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
> >or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
> >history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
> >dietary front.
>
> >I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
> >he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
> >That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
> >no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
> >Can anyone work out what is going on!
>
> It's not apuzzle. We all see it too often.
>
> Sadly, it is either ignorance or denial. He may not be able
> to treat it solely with diet, but the right menu could
> certainly complement or even minimise the medications.
>
> You can't force him to do anything. Nagging, haranguing,
> preaching will only cause him to resist.
>
> Just set the example and let him know that if he ever wants
> more information you're available.
>
The only time I stood my ground firmly was when he said he had been
told by the consultant that his *type* of diabetes cannot be
controlled by diet. But, as you say at the end of your post, I simply
left it with "Ray, I got my bg numbers down into the 5 range within a
few months and havent felt this brilliant in a long time (Putting
aside my fallback recently with the ol' glandular fever!) - if you
need to ask any questions or want help with anything, I am here for
you".

Its all I can do.

Thanks Alan.

On 2 May, 04:39, "bj" <bjone...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
> "dumb_fishie99" <dumb_fishi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b071c20f-e36c-4452-bcff-27f9f91efa76@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > ...and this lady I didn't know said "paella!" to me, as if I should have
> > some. * I said I couldn't have it because of being diabetic,
>
> I just say "not for me right now...." or something similar; I might even say
> "yeah, it does look good, maybe later...." *I do not try to explain, excuse,
> or justify my decision about it. I don't think it's necessary, though I will
> discuss it at times -- I'm not hiding it, just not making a point of it.
>
> There are plenty of reasons I might not have some particular dish at a
> party, lots of them having nothing to do with diabetes. I don't feel it
> necessary to explain those either.
>
> Besides, in my mind it's not "can't" but "won't" (or maybe just not right
> now).
> bj

I have actually had people say, "oh go on, eat it, its not like you
eat it every day - treat yaself".

Simply, we are back to people not understanding the dynamics of
diabetes (I didnt, until my dx and this group!).

On 2 May, 03:00, "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_...@maccas.com> wrote:
> "Helen Back" <SiriusC...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:02bc94de-7738-4ef7-b86c-3c4494446fc5@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
> > He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
> > major hypos before he passed. *Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
> > has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
> > Here's thepuzzle! *He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> > diet, only medication". *He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
> > he cant remember the name of. *He has to take the tablets because the
> > diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> > repeating it to me!
>
> > Now, I dont know if this guy is lying as he knows he has no intention
> > of radically changing his dietary habits (he hates salads,most
> > vegetables and fruit - will not experiment with anything more exotic
> > than deep fried sausages, deep fried bacon, chips (fries), etc etc.)
> > or his consultant is aware, judging from his general health and family
> > history that my friend has no intentions of making an effort on the
> > dietary front.
>
> > I have told him that unless he changes his diet and ups the exercise
> > he can look at the same kind of misery his own brother went through.
> > That diet and exercise play a huge part in keeping it under control,
> > no matter how many tablets he takes.
>
> > Can anyone work out what is going on!
>
> Yes, he is just ignorant of the facts. Perhaps he needs to go to an educator
> as well as the doctor at this point. Like a lot of type 2 diabetics they
> think the drugs are the thing that will control. Not his fault, his doctor
> probably didn't explain well

I do know that some people, no matter how much they are told something
is bad for them, that they will insist on doing it anyway. And for
those of us who have the curiosity or will to live to research our dx,
we are up against the so called professionals who insist we do it
their way or no way!

Obviously, there are a few of you who have shocked your doctors,
dieticians and nutritionists into amazement at radical and positive
changes in bg levels - you are the lucky ones!

"Helen Back" <SiriusC-63@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9458c92e-f2c5-4c2d-933f-9aae3807ad49@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On 1 May, 18:16, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
> Helen Back wrote in message
> >Here's thepuzzle! He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> >diet, only medication". He is not on insulin just some tablets,
> which
> >he cant remember the name of. He has to take the tablets because the
> >diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> >repeating it to me!
>
> I don't really know what's going on since it's a small bit of info
> Helen, but I think that the fact that he's taking medication and
> doesn't know the name of it, probably speaks volumes. If you know him
> well enough, try to get some more information and post it. How many
> times does he test? Does he test? What kind of medication? What does
> he eat? I hope you can get some answers for him. Take care.
>
> Cheri

He wasnt given a meter!! I couldnt believe it!!

The update is, he was sent to a diabetic nurse locally who did tell
him he needs to modify his diet so there's the first contradiction!
Also, he has been referred to a dietician and is having a retinopathy
eye check at the hospital (WHICH IS MORE THAN I WAS BLOODY OFFERED!).

I cant make sense of that! This is a guy who will have no intentions
of following advice and he gets the works!!

I've attempted to get him to write down the name of his medication but
he keeps forgetting and says it begins with "b" and is a very long
word!

Oh well....

Sounds like he is on a biguanide? Not a drug but a class of drugs.

On 2 May, 12:33, Nicky <ukc802466...@btconnect.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back
>
> <SiriusC...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> >Can anyone work out what is going on!
>
> He's ostriching. Sorry you're going to have to go through that again
>
>
Yes, as I was responding to Quentin, blinkin' tears started pouring
down my face.

Not quite over my mum and other friend yet, obviously!!

On 2 May, 03:09, Quentin Grady <quen...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Helen Back
>
> <SiriusC...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> >Hi guys - remember my poor friend who died just before New Years Eve?
> >He had uncontrolled diabetes and was subjected to numerous strokes and
> >major hypos before he passed. *Anyway, his brother, also my friend,
> >has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
>
> >Here's the puzzle! *He said his type of diabetes "isnt controlled by
> >diet, only medication". *He is not on insulin just some tablets, which
> >he cant remember the name of. *He has to take the tablets because the
> >diabetes isnt controlled by diet. I repeat this because he keeps
> >repeating it to me!
>
> G'day G'day Helen,
>
> * *It's a wonderful example of how illogical people can be. *
>
> Presumably he has been told by his doctor that he doesn't have
> "borderline" diabetes. *Hey, I didn't dream up the "borderline"
> diabetes description. *It is one that seems to have been part of the
> misleading conversational vocabulary kit used by some doctors of a
> previous generation. *Roughly speaking the first option for
> controlling T2 diabetes is exercise. *If that doesn't work then the
> next option is exercise and diet. *The next option is exercise, diet
> and oral medication. * Then exercise, diet and insulin with or without
> oral medication. * *As Cheri has pointed out the fact he doesn't know
> the name of the tablets he is on speaks volumes. The bloke isn't that
> fast on the uptake. *He believes there are at least two types of
> diabetes, one that is controlled by diet and one that requires
> medication. * It is what is called a false dichotomy. *Sorry about the
> big word. *A false dichotomy is where one believes there are two
> separate classes when in fact the classes overlap. * Most people
> benefit from exercise and diet and medication. *Some need only
> exercise and diet. *The classes overlap. *Some of those who would
> benefit from exercise, diet and meds can get good control from
> exercise and diet alone if they really put their heart and soul and a
> heck of a lot of time and energy into research.

Like us peeps, here!!

>
> Why does he keep repeating it to you to