Question about carbs.

On Sun, 18 May 2008 12:37:45 -0500, BlueBrooke
<me@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 18 May 2008 22:29:58 +1000, Alan S
><loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I must have clicked on the wrong button - I thought I had
>>killfiled you.
>
>How many Andys are there now? Do we have several, or are there one or
>two who keep morphing?

There is an Andy with a "q" and then there is this Andy, who
uses this nick: -=Andy=-


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

On Sun, 18 May 2008 20:50:12 GMT, -=Andy=-
<Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:

>
>Some people erroneously think that blood sugar levels are fixed - that
>they are constant all the time - and that is not the case at all.

I watched a startlingly bad local TV health programme on
type 2 last night. It's main aim seemed to be to promote a
new low-fat diabetes diet book.

But in amongst the nonsense was one fascinating personal
experiment.

This guy, a non-diabetic, decided to test whether consuming
sugar caused diabetes. His "scientific" research was to pig
out on confectionary for 24 hours - basically lollipops,
sweets, cakes etc - to see if he got diabetes. Yeah,
ludicrous, but that's what he did.

The interesting thing was that the blood test results during
the "research" showed that his blood glucose levels hardly
moved from his pre-"research" levels. But his insulin levels
sky-rocketed. In other words all that happened was that the
excessive dietary sugar led to increases in production of
blood glucose that were matched instantly by increases in
insulin to maintain constant BG levels.

He didn't comment on the implications of that increase. He
did pontificate on the fact that such a diet may lead to
diabetes because it would make you fat. *sigh*


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

Trinkwasser <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:

: I've been reading some Medscape CMEs and the reason postprandial
: numbers have been deemphasised in the past is simply because they
: never had drugs to control them effectively.

that is oddd, because I use Starlix occasionally if I start a meal at a
high number or expect to not be able to competely control my eating either
because someone else or a restaurant is preparing it or it is a holiday or
birthday. This is a reletively short acting beta cell insulin pusher adn
helps control pps. There is also Prandin, which is similar, but a bit
lnger lasting. Of course you have to anticipate, not act after the bgs
have gone higher than you would like. I have occasionally taken one in
the middle of a meal when I was getting a bit out of control with my
eating(like a lovely roll with the dinner:-)

My endo lets me ad lib these as I feel necessary

Wendy

"-=Andy=-" <Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote in message
news:gi4134pt7ae2qavbt8gm8buhdhe207lruk@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 19:49:43 GMT, MI <quilchenapark@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Reader's Digest is not an authority on anything! Try reading Jennifer's
>>advice and some of the other sources that have been listed here.
>>Unfortunately, I don't have the URLs handy. Popular magazines are no
>>source
>>for adequate medical information.
>
> I don't think a URL will give you better information than your doctor
> on how to treat your diabetes. In fact we still visit doctors and
> hospitals to treat our diabetes and not some URL on the Internet.
>
> And by the way, I am not quoting the magazine - It is a book,
> published by Reader's Digest on the subject - in consultation with
> doctors and endocrinologists.
>
> I have no doubt there are disagreements at what level one is a
> diabetic etc., but the point I was making is that there is
> variability in blood sugar levels, that this variability is normal
> and that it needs to be taken into account, otherwise our BG tests are
> meaningless.
>
> Some people erroneously think that blood sugar levels are fixed - that
> they are constant all the time - and that is not the case at all.

It might be a book, but that doesn't mean it is up to date.

"Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:uqc134hgfs4kitmh1mittmu4olq2j97tep@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 20:50:12 GMT, -=Andy=-
> <Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Some people erroneously think that blood sugar levels are fixed - that
>>they are constant all the time - and that is not the case at all.
>
> I watched a startlingly bad local TV health programme on
> type 2 last night. It's main aim seemed to be to promote a
> new low-fat diabetes diet book.
>
> But in amongst the nonsense was one fascinating personal
> experiment.
>
> This guy, a non-diabetic, decided to test whether consuming
> sugar caused diabetes. His "scientific" research was to pig
> out on confectionary for 24 hours - basically lollipops,
> sweets, cakes etc - to see if he got diabetes. Yeah,
> ludicrous, but that's what he did.
>
> The interesting thing was that the blood test results during
> the "research" showed that his blood glucose levels hardly
> moved from his pre-"research" levels. But his insulin levels
> sky-rocketed. In other words all that happened was that the
> excessive dietary sugar led to increases in production of
> blood glucose that were matched instantly by increases in
> insulin to maintain constant BG levels.
>
> He didn't comment on the implications of that increase. He
> did pontificate on the fact that such a diet may lead to
> diabetes because it would make you fat. *sigh*

I got something in the mail the other day from my health care provider. I
can't remember now if it was the group my GP is with, or my Endo., but after
a quick glance it went straight in the trash. It had some pertinent
information like what an A1c is and why you should check your feet every
day. It also had a recipe for lemon bars, complete with cake flour and
sugar! 1 serving = 1 serving of carb. Riiiight.

On Mon, 19 May 2008 08:52:44 +1000, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>You're basing your health plan for a long and
>complication-free life on Reader's Digest and Wikipedia?

It is a book about Diabetes by Reader's Digest. If you don't approve
of the book then don't buy it. This book lists quite a few doctors
and endocrinologists as its consultants.

But hey, if you know more about diabetes than these professionals, why
don't you start your own practice? And write your own book for that
matter.

>
>Why not just buy a revolver, one bullet, and instead of
>testing two hours after your evening meal once a week play
>Russian Roulette instead? It may be quicker, but both lead
>to the same result eventually.

Are you sure you are here to help diabetics or are you pushing
something with your web page and interest in this condition?
Hello?

>
>OK. I'll try to treat that seriously. More for the lurkers
>than for yourself.

Hey genius, I don't want to impose on you and waste your valuable
time on this - you are such a great source of knmowledge on this -
that I am sure doctors and hospitals must be coming to you for advice.

>
>To answer this:
>
>>On page 62 under the heading "Setting Blood-Sugar Goals" it says:
>>
>>"According to the American Diabetes Association you should strive to
>>keep glucose levels at:
>> 80 to 120 mg/dl before eating
>> less than 180 mg/dl after eating
>> 100 to 140 mg/dl at bedtime"
>
>Please read this article, including cites, by myself:
>http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/20...t-becomes.html

Wow! A webpage that says there is a disagreement within the medical
community on where diabetes starts!

And this makes you smart? So much so that you felt important enough
to put this on a web page?

>
>and this one,including cites, by Jenny:
>http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php

No kidding? You want me to go to the Internet from now on instead of
visiting a doctor? Or should I take my doctor with me?

>
>And, in answer to
>>>>everybody's blood sugar level goes up after a meal
>>>> - and this includes non diabetics
>Please read and listen to:
>http://www.diabetes-symposium.org/in...chart=4&id=322

I will pass. You are an idiot.


-=Andy=-


>
>
>
>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
>d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
>Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

On Mon, 19 May 2008 00:58:56 GMT, "Julie Bove"
<juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:

>
>"Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:uqc134hgfs4kitmh1mittmu4olq2j97tep@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sun, 18 May 2008 20:50:12 GMT, -=Andy=-
>> <Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Some people erroneously think that blood sugar levels are fixed - that
>>>they are constant all the time - and that is not the case at all.
>>
>> I watched a startlingly bad local TV health programme on
>> type 2 last night. It's main aim seemed to be to promote a
>> new low-fat diabetes diet book.
>>
>> But in amongst the nonsense was one fascinating personal
>> experiment.
>>
>> This guy, a non-diabetic, decided to test whether consuming
>> sugar caused diabetes. His "scientific" research was to pig
>> out on confectionary for 24 hours - basically lollipops,
>> sweets, cakes etc - to see if he got diabetes. Yeah,
>> ludicrous, but that's what he did.
>>
>> The interesting thing was that the blood test results during
>> the "research" showed that his blood glucose levels hardly
>> moved from his pre-"research" levels. But his insulin levels
>> sky-rocketed. In other words all that happened was that the
>> excessive dietary sugar led to increases in production of
>> blood glucose that were matched instantly by increases in
>> insulin to maintain constant BG levels.
>>
>> He didn't comment on the implications of that increase. He
>> did pontificate on the fact that such a diet may lead to
>> diabetes because it would make you fat. *sigh*
>
>I got something in the mail the other day from my health care provider. I
>can't remember now if it was the group my GP is with, or my Endo., but after
>a quick glance it went straight in the trash. It had some pertinent
>information like what an A1c is and why you should check your feet every
>day. It also had a recipe for lemon bars, complete with cake flour and
>sugar! 1 serving = 1 serving of carb. Riiiight.
>
Today's ADA Recipe for the day:
http://www.diabetes.org/recipeofthed...romo=HOME_rotd

Note that serve size is 1/2 cup = one pancake. Do they
seriously think that is how many will be consumed at a meal
by one person? Not to mention additions like syrup or
similar.

Potato Pancakes

Recipe for Sunday, 05/18/2008

A delicious classic without all the fat.

Number of Servings: 6
Serving Size: 1/2 cup


Today's recipe is brought to you by:
Campbell's V8 Juice

Ingredients Measure Weight
medium potatoes, peeled 2 ea ---
zucchini, unpeeled 1 ea ---
small onion 1 ea ---
dry bread crumbs
or matzo mea 1/2 cup ---
Nonstick cooking spray 2 spray ---
canola or corn oil 2 tsp ---

Nutrition Information
Amount per serving
Calories 123
Calories From Fat 31
Total Fat 3 g
Saturated Fat 1 g
Cholesterol 71 mg
Sodium 24 mg
Total Carbohydrate 19 g
Dietary Fiber 2 g
Sugars 2 g
Protein 4 g

again, *sigh*

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

On Mon, 19 May 2008 00:59:48 GMT, -=Andy=-
<Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:

>I will pass. You are an idiot.
>
>
>-=Andy=-

True. I keep doing the same thing - arguing with closed
minds - and expecting a different result.

You're quite right, I'm an idiot.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

On Mon, 19 May 2008 00:59:48 GMT, -=Andy=-
<Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:

>But hey, if you know more about diabetes than these professionals, why
>don't you start your own practice? And write your own book for that
>matter.

I won't ever be starting a practice. That's ridiculous.

However, thank you for the other suggestion. Been thinking
of that for a while.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

In article <kql1345gdob0tt7esvt8gendm58e0c9jrp@4ax.com>,
Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

> Potato Pancakes
>
> Recipe for Sunday, 05/18/2008
>
> A delicious classic without all the fat.
>
> Number of Servings: 6
> Serving Size: 1/2 cup
>
>
> Today's recipe is brought to you by:
> Campbell's V8 Juice
>
> Ingredients Measure Weight
> medium potatoes, peeled 2 ea ---
> zucchini, unpeeled 1 ea ---
> small onion 1 ea ---
> dry bread crumbs
> or matzo mea 1/2 cup ---
> Nonstick cooking spray 2 spray ---
> canola or corn oil 2 tsp ---

Thanks for posting this, Alan. I looked at it and immediately did my
mental substitution: 2 or 3 medium zucchini, skip the potato, add an
egg, a tablespoon or two of matzo meal (just as much as is needed to
bind the rest of the ingredients together). Then I recalled that I
bought a bunch of zukes yesterday. So, I know what I'm making for dinner
tomorrow night: zucchini pancakes. And I owe it all to you!

--
"[xxx] has very definite opinions, and does not suffer fools lightly.
This, apparently, upsets the fools."
---BB cuts to the pith of a flame-fest

"Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kql1345gdob0tt7esvt8gendm58e0c9jrp@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 00:58:56 GMT, "Julie Bove"
> <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:uqc134hgfs4kitmh1mittmu4olq2j97tep@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Sun, 18 May 2008 20:50:12 GMT, -=Andy=-
>>> <Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Some people erroneously think that blood sugar levels are fixed - that
>>>>they are constant all the time - and that is not the case at all.
>>>
>>> I watched a startlingly bad local TV health programme on
>>> type 2 last night. It's main aim seemed to be to promote a
>>> new low-fat diabetes diet book.
>>>
>>> But in amongst the nonsense was one fascinating personal
>>> experiment.
>>>
>>> This guy, a non-diabetic, decided to test whether consuming
>>> sugar caused diabetes. His "scientific" research was to pig
>>> out on confectionary for 24 hours - basically lollipops,
>>> sweets, cakes etc - to see if he got diabetes. Yeah,
>>> ludicrous, but that's what he did.
>>>
>>> The interesting thing was that the blood test results during
>>> the "research" showed that his blood glucose levels hardly
>>> moved from his pre-"research" levels. But his insulin levels
>>> sky-rocketed. In other words all that happened was that the
>>> excessive dietary sugar led to increases in production of
>>> blood glucose that were matched instantly by increases in
>>> insulin to maintain constant BG levels.
>>>
>>> He didn't comment on the implications of that increase. He
>>> did pontificate on the fact that such a diet may lead to
>>> diabetes because it would make you fat. *sigh*
>>
>>I got something in the mail the other day from my health care provider. I
>>can't remember now if it was the group my GP is with, or my Endo., but
>>after
>>a quick glance it went straight in the trash. It had some pertinent
>>information like what an A1c is and why you should check your feet every
>>day. It also had a recipe for lemon bars, complete with cake flour and
>>sugar! 1 serving = 1 serving of carb. Riiiight.
>>
> Today's ADA Recipe for the day:
> http://www.diabetes.org/recipeofthed...romo=HOME_rotd
>
> Note that serve size is 1/2 cup = one pancake. Do they
> seriously think that is how many will be consumed at a meal
> by one person? Not to mention additions like syrup or
> similar.
>
> Potato Pancakes
>
> Recipe for Sunday, 05/18/2008
>
> A delicious classic without all the fat.
>
> Number of Servings: 6
> Serving Size: 1/2 cup
>
>
> Today's recipe is brought to you by:
> Campbell's V8 Juice
>
> Ingredients Measure Weight
> medium potatoes, peeled 2 ea ---
> zucchini, unpeeled 1 ea ---
> small onion 1 ea ---
> dry bread crumbs
> or matzo mea 1/2 cup ---
> Nonstick cooking spray 2 spray ---
> canola or corn oil 2 tsp ---
>
> Nutrition Information
> Amount per serving
> Calories 123
> Calories From Fat 31
> Total Fat 3 g
> Saturated Fat 1 g
> Cholesterol 71 mg
> Sodium 24 mg
> Total Carbohydrate 19 g
> Dietary Fiber 2 g
> Sugars 2 g
> Protein 4 g
>
> again, *sigh*

I don't know what that recipe with the V-8 is for, but it sounds disgusting.
I use a vegetable juice that is organic and has less carbs than V-8 if I am
making meatloaf or soup. I rarely use the stuff because in and of itself,
it is high in carbs, IMO. I did use a small can the last time I made
meatloaf which should have been called veggie loaf with a dab o'meat because
I spaced out and forgot to buy the veggie juice.

As for the pancakes, this reminds me of a conversation I had with the third
dietician I saw. Somehow the subject of pancakes came up. They were one
food I used to love. She smiled at me, did some math and cheerily informed
me that I could still eat them. I could have one 2" pancake with a teaspoon
of syrup! As you can imagine, laughter burbled from my lips. Why in the
world would I even bother?

On Mon, 19 May 2008 11:33:55 +1000, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>True. I keep doing the same thing - arguing with closed
>minds - and expecting a different result.
>

Except you were not arguing and you were not trying to convince. You
were a self-serving pompous ass.


-=Andy=-

On Sun, 18 May 2008 21:56:53 -0400, Alice Faber
<afaber@panix.com> wrote:

>In article <kql1345gdob0tt7esvt8gendm58e0c9jrp@4ax.com>,
> Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Potato Pancakes
>>
>> Recipe for Sunday, 05/18/2008
>>
>> A delicious classic without all the fat.
>>
>> Number of Servings: 6
>> Serving Size: 1/2 cup
>>
>>
>> Today's recipe is brought to you by:
>> Campbell's V8 Juice
>>
>> Ingredients Measure Weight
>> medium potatoes, peeled 2 ea ---
>> zucchini, unpeeled 1 ea ---
>> small onion 1 ea ---
>> dry bread crumbs
>> or matzo mea 1/2 cup ---
>> Nonstick cooking spray 2 spray ---
>> canola or corn oil 2 tsp ---
>
>Thanks for posting this, Alan. I looked at it and immediately did my
>mental substitution: 2 or 3 medium zucchini, skip the potato, add an
>egg, a tablespoon or two of matzo meal (just as much as is needed to
>bind the rest of the ingredients together). Then I recalled that I
>bought a bunch of zukes yesterday. So, I know what I'm making for dinner
>tomorrow night: zucchini pancakes. And I owe it all to you!

Nah - send the ADA a thank you note:-)

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

-=Andy=- wrote:
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 22:29:58 +1000, Alan S
> <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 17 May 2008 19:32:44 GMT, -=Andy=-
>> <Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> By the way, everybody's blood sugar level goes up after a meal - and
>>> this includes non diabetics - so it is unrealistic not to expect
>>> some elevation in the blood sugar level right after a meal.
>>> According to the ADA, blood glucose can be as high as 180 mg/dL
>>> after eating. Personally I wouldn't check my BG until at least four
>>> hours after a meal.
>>
>> I rarely say this mate; or at least not since things
>> improved around here.
>>
>> You're a dickhead. You're welcome to believe fairytales and
>> practise the ostrich method of BG management yourself - it's
>> your life. But don't start promoting it around here and
>> expect people to take you seriously.
>
> The above information is my understanding of what I read in "Reader's
> Digest, Stopping Diabetes In Its Tracks" - New York 2007 written in
> consultation with a number of doctors and endocrinologists.
>
> On page 62 under the heading "Setting Blood-Sugar Goals" it says:
>
> "According to the American Diabetes Association you should strive to
> keep glucose levels at:
> 80 to 120 mg/dl before eating
> less than 180 mg/dl after eating
> 100 to 140 mg/dl at bedtime"

If you are inside those parameters you will need additional measures. Those
numbers are too high to prevent complications and there is one person who
really cares about waht happens to you and that is you. So do you put your
faith in an organisation who may or may not have conflictings and therefore
can't be objective or do you put your faith in your own ability to achieve
better numbers?

> And then it goes on to say that if you are outside these parameters
> then additional measures might be necessary to control blood sugar
> levels etc.
>
> The important thing that stands out for me is that blood sugar
> variation is normal; i.e. blood sugar is dynamic, meaning it varies
> with what we eat and when we measure it. For diabetics, it is
> important to know "when to test" otherwise, this normal variability of
> blood sugar level will make our test results meaningless.

No tests are meaningless unless you want them to be and rises in bg are
quite within your ability to prevent. Just becasue someone says a rise is
ineviatable or diabetic progression is inevitable, doesn't mean it has to be
so. You personally are in charge here.

> It is this variability, by the way, that gave rise to the "Glycemic
> Index" concept. "The concept was developed by Dr. David J. Jenkins
> and colleagues including Dr Tom Wolever in 1980-1981 at the University
> of Toronto in their research to find out which foods were best for
> people with diabetes." - Wikipedia has a good article on this. See
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index

I don't recall that the GI was developed to find out which foods were best
for diabetics. In fact I am not sure I have heard of any trials on diabetics
using the GI. Eating according to a low GI will have a different effect on a
non diabetic than on a diabetic. A non diabetic has intact pancreatic beta
cells, we don't. Not to say the GI is a bad thing but one needs to test,
test and test to find out if it does help.

You have the tools, use them.

"Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:69cb69F31bmvsU1@mid.individual.net...

<snip>

> I don't recall that the GI was developed to find out which foods were best
> for diabetics. In fact I am not sure I have heard of any trials on
> diabetics using the GI. Eating according to a low GI will have a different
> effect on a non diabetic than on a diabetic. A non diabetic has intact
> pancreatic beta cells, we don't. Not to say the GI is a bad thing but one
> needs to test, test and test to find out if it does help.
>
> You have the tools, use them.

From what I have read on how the GI was developed, it was done on college
students, none of which had diabetes.

-=Andy=- wrote:
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 19:49:43 GMT, MI <quilchenapark@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Reader's Digest is not an authority on anything! Try reading
>> Jennifer's advice and some of the other sources that have been
>> listed here. Unfortunately, I don't have the URLs handy. Popular
>> magazines are no source for adequate medical information.
>
> I don't think a URL will give you better information than your doctor
> on how to treat your diabetes. In fact we still visit doctors and
> hospitals to treat our diabetes and not some URL on the Internet.

I visit doctors for scripts and blood tests etc. As far as my diabetes goes
I learned to control it by myself and with help from people in here who live
it every day. My doctor's and dietician's weren't worth a pinch of shit when
it came to helping me control, even if I had been willing to take scads of
meds, which I am not, considering the side effects.

You always have a choice Andy, follow your doctors blindly or become
proactive with your diabetic care.

>
> And by the way, I am not quoting the magazine - It is a book,
> published by Reader's Digest on the subject - in consultation with
> doctors and endocrinologists.
>
> I have no doubt there are disagreements at what level one is a
> diabetic etc., but the point I was making is that there is
> variability in blood sugar levels, that this variability is normal
> and that it needs to be taken into account, otherwise our BG tests are
> meaningless.

Once again, variability can be in your hands. I wouldn't call it normal. I
would call it not having learned how to attain euglycemia and maintain it.
Blood testing shows me if a food or food combo causes my bg to rise. I can
then take action. If I do nothing and accept that blood glucose rises are
"nromal" then I will be in deep doo doo not too far down the line. I valuue
my organs and the fact I am pain free and med free. I want to stay that way.

>
> Some people erroneously think that blood sugar levels are fixed - that
> they are constant all the time - and that is not the case at all.

Sadly you have been brain washed. It is not too late to break free!

Alice Faber wrote:
> In article <kql1345gdob0tt7esvt8gendm58e0c9jrp@4ax.com>,
> Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Potato Pancakes
>>
>> Recipe for Sunday, 05/18/2008
>>
>> A delicious classic without all the fat.
>>
>> Number of Servings: 6
>> Serving Size: 1/2 cup
>>
>>
>> Today's recipe is brought to you by:
>> Campbell's V8 Juice
>>
>> Ingredients Measure Weight
>> medium potatoes, peeled 2 ea ---
>> zucchini, unpeeled 1 ea ---
>> small onion 1 ea ---
>> dry bread crumbs
>> or matzo mea 1/2 cup ---
>> Nonstick cooking spray 2 spray ---
>> canola or corn oil 2 tsp ---
>
> Thanks for posting this, Alan. I looked at it and immediately did my
> mental substitution: 2 or 3 medium zucchini, skip the potato, add an
> egg, a tablespoon or two of matzo meal (just as much as is needed to
> bind the rest of the ingredients together). Then I recalled that I
> bought a bunch of zukes yesterday. So, I know what I'm making for
> dinner tomorrow night: zucchini pancakes. And I owe it all to you!

lol

-=Andy=- wrote:
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 08:52:44 +1000, Alan S
> <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You're basing your health plan for a long and
>> complication-free life on Reader's Digest and Wikipedia?
>
> It is a book about Diabetes by Reader's Digest. If you don't approve
> of the book then don't buy it. This book lists quite a few doctors
> and endocrinologists as its consultants.

Andy, it could be written by God but that doesn't mean that if you followed
their directions you would remain healthy and complication free. The people
here are trying to stop you from making big mistakes, some of us have made
the mistakes and lived ti regret it but also lived to turn the situation
around. i.e. we aren't speaking out of our proverbial butts. We have walked
the walk and learnt the lessons, often the hard way.

-=Andy=- wrote:
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 11:33:55 +1000, Alan S
> <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> True. I keep doing the same thing - arguing with closed
>> minds - and expecting a different result.
>>
>
> Except you were not arguing and you were not trying to convince. You
> were a self-serving pompous ass.

Who happens to have great bg control, what are your numbers?

Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 00:59:48 GMT, -=Andy=-
> >I will pass. You are an idiot.

> True. I keep doing the same thing - arguing with closed
> minds - and expecting a different result.
>
> You're quite right, I'm an idiot.

My killfile saves me from reading their drivel, except as quoted.

You are an idiot for not making better use of your killfile! ;-D

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

-=Andy=- <Sorry@noaddress.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 19:49:43 GMT, MI <quilchenapark@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Reader's Digest is not an authority on anything! Try reading Jennifer's
>>advice and some of the other sources that have been listed here.
>>Unfortunately, I don't have the URLs handy. Popular magazines are no source
>>for adequate medical information.

> I don't think a URL will give you better information than your doctor
> on how to treat your diabetes. In fact we still visit doctors and
> hospitals to treat our diabetes and not some URL on the Internet.

> And by the way, I am not quoting the magazine - It is a book,
> published by Reader's Digest on the subject - in consultation with
> doctors and endocrinologists.

So it's obviously aimed at the kind of people who like to get their
information from Reader's Digest books, who by definition are the kind
of people who find reading ordinary undigested books a bit of a
struggle.

> I have no doubt there are disagreements at what level one is a
> diabetic etc., but the point I was making is that there is
> variability in blood sugar levels, that this variability is normal

You're confusing "normal" and "common".

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...958cf266006d9?

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD used his keyboard to write :

> <spam snipped>

Yep i smell a troll...

KROM

"-=Andy=-" <Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote in message
news:gi4134pt7ae2qavbt8gm8buhdhe207lruk@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 19:49:43 GMT, MI <quilchenapark@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Reader's Digest is not an authority on anything! Try reading Jennifer's
>>advice and some of the other sources that have been listed here.
>>Unfortunately, I don't have the URLs handy. Popular magazines are no
>>source
>>for adequate medical information.
>
> I don't think a URL will give you better information than your doctor
> on how to treat your diabetes. In fact we still visit doctors and
> hospitals to treat our diabetes and not some URL on the Internet.
>
> And by the way, I am not quoting the magazine - It is a book,
> published by Reader's Digest on the subject - in consultation with
> doctors and endocrinologists.
>
> I have no doubt there are disagreements at what level one is a
> diabetic etc., but the point I was making is that there is
> variability in blood sugar levels, that this variability is normal
> and that it needs to be taken into account, otherwise our BG tests are
> meaningless.
>
> Some people erroneously think that blood sugar levels are fixed - that
> they are constant all the time - and that is not the case at all.
>
>
> -=Andy=-
>

"W. Baker" <wbaker@panix.com> wrote in message
news:g0qg4g$m2o$1@reader2.panix.com...
> Trinkwasser <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> : I've been reading some Medscape CMEs and the reason postprandial
> : numbers have been deemphasised in the past is simply because they
> : never had drugs to control them effectively.
>
> that is oddd, because I use Starlix occasionally if I start a meal at a
> high number or expect to not be able to competely control my eating either
> because someone else or a restaurant is preparing it or it is a holiday or
> birthday. This is a reletively short acting beta cell insulin pusher adn
> helps control pps. There is also Prandin, which is similar, but a bit
> lnger lasting.
>

They haven't been around all that long, though.
bj

In article <gi4134pt7ae2qavbt8gm8buhdhe207lruk@4ax.com>,
-=Andy=- <Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:

> I don't think a URL will give you better information than your doctor
> on how to treat your diabetes.

Depends on the URL and the doctor.

For a URL, try: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

Q: What do you call the person who finishes last in their class at med
school and makes no effort to keep up on current research? A: Doctor.

Instead of blindly following people who have no vested interest in your
keeping your feet or kidneys or eyesight, why not get yourself educated.
Alan's webpages could be a good place to start.

Priscilla, T2

In article <kql1345gdob0tt7esvt8gendm58e0c9jrp@4ax.com>,
Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

> Today's ADA Recipe for the day:
> http://www.diabetes.org/recipeofthed...romo=HOME_rotd
>
> Note that serve size is 1/2 cup = one pancake. Do they
> seriously think that is how many will be consumed at a meal
> by one person? Not to mention additions like syrup or
> similar.

Syrup on potato pancakes? Ick! Try sour cream!

Other than that, I agree with you.

Priscilla, T2

In article <M5gYj.3573$HJ5.2072@trnddc01>,
"bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net> wrote:

> "W. Baker" <wbaker@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:g0qg4g$m2o$1@reader2.panix.com...
> > Trinkwasser <spam@devnull.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > : I've been reading some Medscape CMEs and the reason postprandial
> > : numbers have been deemphasised in the past is simply because they
> > : never had drugs to control them effectively.
> >
> > that is oddd, because I use Starlix occasionally if I start a meal at a
> > high number or expect to not be able to competely control my eating either
> > because someone else or a restaurant is preparing it or it is a holiday or
> > birthday. This is a reletively short acting beta cell insulin pusher adn
> > helps control pps. There is also Prandin, which is similar, but a bit
> > lnger lasting.
> >
>
> They haven't been around all that long, though.

Yeah, Starlix was pretty new when I was diagnosed in 2003, and the group
my endo was in wasn't prescribing it yet. He gave me a general rule
which I think is pretty good: stay away from a med for five years after
it's released and let others do the beta testing on it. If it's still
around in five years without significant problems coming to light, it's
probably OK to try. This means I can try Starlix now. ;-) But then my
current problem is my fasting numbers since I had to go off metformin
and packed some pounds back on.

Priscilla, T2

In article <HXNXj.854$kZ1.744@trndny02>,
"Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:

> That doesn't work for me at all. Whole wheat spikes me and white flour does
> not. Brown rice spikes. White rice does not. Potatoes do not.

Julie, surely you have noticed by now that your body's response to many
things is idiosyncratic and not generalizable to most diabetic?

Priscilla, T2

In article <u6jv24tp07k3bpvimc0bdu2judje4kjg26@4ax.com>,
-=Andy=- <Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:

> Don't worry about the spike. The Oral Glucose Tolerance Test
> requires your blood glucose reading to exceed 200 mg/dL before you are
> diagnosed as a diabetic. And this, two hours after you ingest the
> high-glucose solution.

Yeah, if you're not up to 200, just keep on as you're doing and you'll
pass it in a year or two.

What idiocy!

Priscilla, T2

Andy,

The difference between many of us here on ASD and you, is that our BGs
numbers are within normal range at *one* hour. We don't have to wait 4
hours after we eat to attain a normal glucose number. Now, ask yourself,
who is more likely to have complications in the long run. Us or you?

We can all play the site this source game and talk about which doc signed on
to this research paper or that, but this comes down to common sense.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5


"-=Andy=-" <Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote in message
news:a6i13454s8qfm27l0jei2nk7nmbstlmoau@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 08:52:44 +1000, Alan S
> <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>You're basing your health plan for a long and
>>complication-free life on Reader's Digest and Wikipedia?
>
> It is a book about Diabetes by Reader's Digest. If you don't approve
> of the book then don't buy it. This book lists quite a few doctors
> and endocrinologists as its consultants.
>
> But hey, if you know more about diabetes than these professionals, why
> don't you start your own practice? And write your own book for that
> matter.
>
>>
>>Why not just buy a revolver, one bullet, and instead of
>>testing two hours after your evening meal once a week play
>>Russian Roulette instead? It may be quicker, but both lead
>>to the same result eventually.
>
> Are you sure you are here to help diabetics or are you pushing
> something with your web page and interest in this condition?
> Hello?
>
>>
>>OK. I'll try to treat that seriously. More for the lurkers
>>than for yourself.
>
> Hey genius, I don't want to impose on you and waste your valuable
> time on this - you are such a great source of knmowledge on this -
> that I am sure doctors and hospitals must be coming to you for advice.
>
>>
>>To answer this:
>>
>>>On page 62 under the heading "Setting Blood-Sugar Goals" it says:
>>>
>>>"According to the American Diabetes Association you should strive to
>>>keep glucose levels at:
>>> 80 to 120 mg/dl before eating
>>> less than 180 mg/dl after eating
>>> 100 to 140 mg/dl at bedtime"
>>
>>Please read this article, including cites, by myself:
>>http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/20...t-becomes.html
>
> Wow! A webpage that says there is a disagreement within the medical
> community on where diabetes starts!
>
> And this makes you smart? So much so that you felt important enough
> to put this on a web page?
>
>>
>>and this one,including cites, by Jenny:
>>http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php
>
> No kidding? You want me to go to the Internet from now on instead of
> visiting a doctor? Or should I take my doctor with me?
>
>>
>>And, in answer to
>>>>>everybody's blood sugar level goes up after a meal
>>>>> - and this includes non diabetics
>>Please read and listen to:
>>http://www.diabetes-symposium.org/in...chart=4&id=322
>
> I will pass. You are an idiot.
>
>
> -=Andy=-
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
>>d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
>>Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
>

-=Andy=- wrote:
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 11:33:55 +1000, Alan S
> <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>> True. I keep doing the same thing - arguing with closed
>> minds - and expecting a different result.
>>
>
> Except you were not arguing and you were not trying to convince. You
> were a self-serving pompous ass.
>
>
> -=Andy=-

gee -=Andy=- looks like you are talking about yourself again

you have come here and argued with every bit of information