Question about carbs.

Now I don't know if this is true or not. But the nurse I spoke with on the
phone (not the one I had hoped to get but the other one) told me that 2
servings of carb will raise BG 100 points. If this *is* true, then how can
they possibly expect your BG to drop back down to what they want it to?

This same nurse is the one who chastised me for not eating enough carbs.
And now she chastised me for eating too MANY (yet the amount she TOLD me to
eat), and said that is why my BG is so high.

Frankly it doesn't seem at this point to matter what I eat or do not eat.
Going without carbs didn't fare me any better than eating them.

convicted neighbor Julie Bove wrote:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...22208318c5817?

> Now I don't know if this is true or not. But the nurse I spoke with on the
> phone (not the one I had hoped to get but the other one) told me that 2
> servings of carb will raise BG 100 points. If this *is* true, then how can
> they possibly expect your BG to drop back down to what they want it to?
>
> This same nurse is the one who chastised me for not eating enough carbs.
> And now she chastised me for eating too MANY (yet the amount she TOLD me to
> eat), and said that is why my BG is so high.
>
> Frankly it doesn't seem at this point to matter what I eat or do not eat.
> Going without carbs didn't fare me any better than eating them.

Without weighing, there is no knowing how much is being eaten.

Simply a few words for the wise and discerning.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic...

Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...918679e6b3d6f?

On May 16, 11:35*am, "Julie Bove" <julieb...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Now I don't know if this is true or not. *But the nurse I spoke with on the
> phone (not the one I had hoped to get but the other one) told me that 2
> servings of carb will raise BG 100 points. *If this *is* true, then how can
> they possibly expect your BG to drop back down to what they want it to?

Going back to the old ADA starch exchanges, each exchange is 15 grams
of carbs. "Two servings" might be interpreted as 30 carbs, then. And
yes, a rise of about 100 points is correct for me.

In my case lowering bg 100 points is about 2.5 units of insulin.

> This same nurse is the one who chastised me for not eating enough carbs.
> And now she chastised me for eating too MANY (yet the amount she TOLD me to
> eat), and said that is why my BG is so high.
>
> Frankly it doesn't seem at this point to matter what I eat or do not eat.
> Going without carbs didn't fare me any better than eating them.

You can see my experiments with going low-carb that I tried late last
summer - I posted the results here. Everybody told me I did it wrong,
but I found that I needed more insulin and at times well after the
meal.

If you're depressed by how hard it all is, I've been there, done that,
too, and am willing to help you work it out. It really is possible to
work it out pretty well. You'll feel very very depressed and angry if
you hear people here telling you that your bg always has to be between
70 and 90, but if you open your target range a bit and work really
really hard and do more than just a single shot of Lantus a day (going
to MDI or a pump), then you can end up being in your target range most
(not all) of the time.

Tim.

On May 16, 8:35 am, "Julie Bove" <julieb...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Now I don't know if this is true or not. But the nurse I spoke with on the
> phone (not the one I had hoped to get but the other one) told me that 2
> servings of carb will raise BG 100 points. If this *is* true, then how can
> they possibly expect your BG to drop back down to what they want it to?
>
> This same nurse is the one who chastised me for not eating enough carbs.
> And now she chastised me for eating too MANY (yet the amount she TOLD me to
> eat), and said that is why my BG is so high.
>
> Frankly it doesn't seem at this point to matter what I eat or do not eat.
> Going without carbs didn't fare me any better than eating them.

Hi Julie,

Wouldn't the amount a 100 carbs raise BG be dependent on how well a
person's
system is functioning? I mean, a person who doesn't have diabetes
can
handle 100 grams of carbs with no spikes. And for those of us on ASD
with
varying degrees of impairment, 100 grams would spike each of us to a
different level. So, imho, it seems like your dippy nurse pulled
that
number out of her hat. The fact that she's contradicting
herself--chastising you for eating the amount of carbs that she told
you
to--sounds like she doesn't have a clue what's going on with you and
she's
frustrated.

Did you point out that you were eating the amount of carbs she'd
indicated?
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5

Hi Julie,

Wouldn't the amount a 100 carbs raise BG be dependent on how well a person's
system is functioning? I mean, a person who doesn't have diabetes can
handle 100 grams of carbs with no spikes. And for those of us on ASD with
varying degrees of impairment, 100 grams would spike each of us to a
different level. So, imho, it seems like your dippy nurse pulled that
number out of her hat. The fact that she's contradicting
herself--chastising you for eating the amount of carbs that she told you
to--sounds like she doesn't have a clue what's going on with you and she's
frustrated.

Did you point out that you were eating the amount of carbs she'd indicated?
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5


"Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:xRhXj.369$H91.138@trndny09...
> Now I don't know if this is true or not. But the nurse I spoke with on
> the phone (not the one I had hoped to get but the other one) told me that
> 2 servings of carb will raise BG 100 points. If this *is* true, then how
> can they possibly expect your BG to drop back down to what they want it
> to?
>
> This same nurse is the one who chastised me for not eating enough carbs.
> And now she chastised me for eating too MANY (yet the amount she TOLD me
> to eat), and said that is why my BG is so high.
>
> Frankly it doesn't seem at this point to matter what I eat or do not eat.
> Going without carbs didn't fare me any better than eating them.
>

"Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message
news:g0kj8h$c53$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Hi Julie,
>
> Wouldn't the amount a 100 carbs raise BG be dependent on how well a
> person's system is functioning? I mean, a person who doesn't have
> diabetes can handle 100 grams of carbs with no spikes. And for those of
> us on ASD with varying degrees of impairment, 100 grams would spike each
> of us to a different level. So, imho, it seems like your dippy nurse
> pulled that number out of her hat. The fact that she's contradicting
> herself--chastising you for eating the amount of carbs that she told you
> to--sounds like she doesn't have a clue what's going on with you and she's
> frustrated.

Well, yes. A person without diabetes is not going to have a rise. And I
have gastroparesis which is delayed stomach emptying. The likely cause of
my high BG.
>
> Did you point out that you were eating the amount of carbs she'd
> indicated?

Yes. And then she questioned me on it, thinking either I was lying or
didn't know what constituted a serving! Thing is, she told me that by not
eating enough carbs, I was causing my BG to go higher. The dietician told
me the same thing. I tried to prove to them this didn't happen. Actually
by skipping a meal or eating a low carb one, my BG remained the same.
Didn't go down at all. But didn't go up as they said it would.

"Tim Shoppa" <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote in message
news:9e2b9dd9-f548-4b21-b619-18d0263c21f8@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On May 16, 11:35 am, "Julie Bove" <julieb...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Now I don't know if this is true or not. But the nurse I spoke with on the
> phone (not the one I had hoped to get but the other one) told me that 2
> servings of carb will raise BG 100 points. If this *is* true, then how can
> they possibly expect your BG to drop back down to what they want it to?

Going back to the old ADA starch exchanges, each exchange is 15 grams
of carbs. "Two servings" might be interpreted as 30 carbs, then. And
yes, a rise of about 100 points is correct for me.

In my case it goes up more than 100 points. Quite a bit more.

In my case lowering bg 100 points is about 2.5 units of insulin.

I wish that worked for me!

> This same nurse is the one who chastised me for not eating enough carbs.
> And now she chastised me for eating too MANY (yet the amount she TOLD me
> to
> eat), and said that is why my BG is so high.
>
> Frankly it doesn't seem at this point to matter what I eat or do not eat.
> Going without carbs didn't fare me any better than eating them.

You can see my experiments with going low-carb that I tried late last
summer - I posted the results here. Everybody told me I did it wrong,
but I found that I needed more insulin and at times well after the
meal.

Huh.

If you're depressed by how hard it all is, I've been there, done that,
too, and am willing to help you work it out. It really is possible to
work it out pretty well. You'll feel very very depressed and angry if
you hear people here telling you that your bg always has to be between
70 and 90, but if you open your target range a bit and work really
really hard and do more than just a single shot of Lantus a day (going
to MDI or a pump), then you can end up being in your target range most
(not all) of the time.

I'm not depressed. Just frustrated. The nurse said I have to wait till
next week with increasing doses of Lantus before she makes the next move.
Whatever that is.

"Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:W2lXj.21$Zy1.1@trndny05...
>
> "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message
> news:g0kj8h$c53$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Hi Julie,
>>
>> Wouldn't the amount a 100 carbs raise BG be dependent on how well a
>> person's system is functioning? I mean, a person who doesn't have
>> diabetes can handle 100 grams of carbs with no spikes. And for those of
>> us on ASD with varying degrees of impairment, 100 grams would spike each
>> of us to a different level. So, imho, it seems like your dippy nurse
>> pulled that number out of her hat. The fact that she's contradicting
>> herself--chastising you for eating the amount of carbs that she told you
>> to--sounds like she doesn't have a clue what's going on with you and
>> she's frustrated.
>
> Well, yes. A person without diabetes is not going to have a rise. And I
> have gastroparesis which is delayed stomach emptying. The likely cause of
> my high BG.
>>
>> Did you point out that you were eating the amount of carbs she'd
>> indicated?
>
> Yes. And then she questioned me on it, thinking either I was lying or
> didn't know what constituted a serving! Thing is, she told me that by not
> eating enough carbs, I was causing my BG to go higher. The dietician told
> me the same thing. I tried to prove to them this didn't happen. Actually
> by skipping a meal or eating a low carb one, my BG remained the same.
> Didn't go down at all. But didn't go up as they said it would.

Seems like she's relying on "text-book" ideas of what should happen without
realizing in "real life" doesn't always work the same way

It's got to be disconcerting to have to deal with someone who can't think
beyond the basics.
--
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2
diet & exercise
BMI 21.5

"Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message
news:g0l3pc$2ho$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:W2lXj.21$Zy1.1@trndny05...
>>
>> "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message
>> news:g0kj8h$c53$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>> Hi Julie,
>>>
>>> Wouldn't the amount a 100 carbs raise BG be dependent on how well a
>>> person's system is functioning? I mean, a person who doesn't have
>>> diabetes can handle 100 grams of carbs with no spikes. And for those of
>>> us on ASD with varying degrees of impairment, 100 grams would spike each
>>> of us to a different level. So, imho, it seems like your dippy nurse
>>> pulled that number out of her hat. The fact that she's contradicting
>>> herself--chastising you for eating the amount of carbs that she told you
>>> to--sounds like she doesn't have a clue what's going on with you and
>>> she's frustrated.
>>
>> Well, yes. A person without diabetes is not going to have a rise. And I
>> have gastroparesis which is delayed stomach emptying. The likely cause
>> of
>> my high BG.
>>>
>>> Did you point out that you were eating the amount of carbs she'd
>>> indicated?
>>
>> Yes. And then she questioned me on it, thinking either I was lying or
>> didn't know what constituted a serving! Thing is, she told me that by
>> not
>> eating enough carbs, I was causing my BG to go higher. The dietician
>> told
>> me the same thing. I tried to prove to them this didn't happen.
>> Actually
>> by skipping a meal or eating a low carb one, my BG remained the same.
>> Didn't go down at all. But didn't go up as they said it would.
>
> Seems like she's relying on "text-book" ideas of what should happen
> without
> realizing in "real life" doesn't always work the same way
>
> It's got to be disconcerting to have to deal with someone who can't think
> beyond the basics.

Indeed it is. And I feel like I have to play along and do what they say or
I will be non-compliant. If I am non-compliant, then they will say that is
the reason I have high BG. I just can't win.

"Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message
> > "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message
> >> [ . . . ]
> > It's got to be disconcerting to have to deal with someone who can't
> > think beyond the basics.
>
> Indeed it is. And I feel like I have to play along and do what they say
> or I will be non-compliant. If I am non-compliant, then they will say
> that is the reason I have high BG. I just can't win.

I must be beginning to sound like a broken record. Be a PITA! Point out to
them that you've been following their regimen for (insert time period here)
and that THAT is why you _still_ have high BG. Let them know that you're
pissed about the poor care and contradictory instructions they're providing
and you want the medicine (fast acting insulin) that will really help you
get control. Don't be so damn nice! My tupence. Who luvs ya, Julie?

Take care.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

"Nick Cramer" <n_cramerSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:20080517034131.703$T9@newsreader.com...
> "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:
>> "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message
>> > "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> >> "Michelle C" <bookbug1@frys.com> wrote in message
>> >> [ . . . ]
>> > It's got to be disconcerting to have to deal with someone who can't
>> > think beyond the basics.
>>
>> Indeed it is. And I feel like I have to play along and do what they say
>> or I will be non-compliant. If I am non-compliant, then they will say
>> that is the reason I have high BG. I just can't win.
>
> I must be beginning to sound like a broken record. Be a PITA! Point out to
> them that you've been following their regimen for (insert time period
> here)
> and that THAT is why you _still_ have high BG. Let them know that you're
> pissed about the poor care and contradictory instructions they're
> providing
> and you want the medicine (fast acting insulin) that will really help you
> get control. Don't be so damn nice! My tupence. Who luvs ya, Julie?
>
> Take care.

Well, I don't know that their regimen IS why. I am eating less carbs now
for my bedtime snack. Same amount of carbs per meal, except I added lunch
back in. Am now eating what I used to eat. So the food can not be the
problem.

But how could ADDING insulin cause my BG to go so much higher? And why does
it drop lower when I do an increase? And pretty much only then? I don't
know that the fast acting insulin will help me. I am not going to demand
anything. I just want to know what's going on. And I don't. And they
don't seem to either.

I am NOT spiking after I eat. Except for breakfast. At lunch and dinner my
BG is usually down some. Just makes no sense. *sigh*

On Fri, 16 May 2008 23:04:50 GMT, "Julie Bove"
<juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:

>
>Indeed it is. And I feel like I have to play along and do what they say or
>I will be non-compliant. If I am non-compliant, then they will say that is
>the reason I have high BG. I just can't win.
>

Have you ever seen "Hitch-hikers Guide to the galaxy" Julie?

I believe that you would meet a kindred spirit. His name is
Marvin:-)



Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

On Sat, 17 May 2008 07:58:22 GMT, "Julie Bove"
<juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:

>But how could ADDING insulin cause my BG to go so much higher?

Read today's blog by Jenny. I think you'll find it rather
interesting.

When Going Low Makes You Go High: Mysteries of
Counterregulation

http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2...u-go-high.html

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

"Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:it9t24d13iigsmfol64cgmnu5gbhvaiemf@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 23:04:50 GMT, "Julie Bove"
> <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Indeed it is. And I feel like I have to play along and do what they say
>>or
>>I will be non-compliant. If I am non-compliant, then they will say that
>>is
>>the reason I have high BG. I just can't win.
>>
>
> Have you ever seen "Hitch-hikers Guide to the galaxy" Julie?
>
> I believe that you would meet a kindred spirit. His name is
> Marvin:-)

No, Never seen it.

"Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b2at24ppjaqvml9qarfmgldnvvt9egno72@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 May 2008 07:58:22 GMT, "Julie Bove"
> <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>But how could ADDING insulin cause my BG to go so much higher?
>
> Read today's blog by Jenny. I think you'll find it rather
> interesting.
>
> When Going Low Makes You Go High: Mysteries of
> Counterregulation
>
> http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2...u-go-high.html

She e-mailed me. Thanks!

On Fri, 16 May 2008 15:35:57 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
wrote:
>
>Now I don't know if this is true or not. But the nurse I spoke with on the
>phone (not the one I had hoped to get but the other one) told me that 2
>servings of carb will raise BG 100 points. If this *is* true, then how can
>they possibly expect your BG to drop back down to what they want it to?

It depends on the Carbohydrate and how quickly it breaks down during
digestion. Carbs that break down quickly will give you a higher BG
than those that break down slower. And this is the essence of the
Glycemic index - so choose a Carb with a low Glycemic index.

By the way, everybody's blood sugar level goes up after a meal - and
this includes non diabetics - so it is unrealistic not to expect some
elevation in the blood sugar level right after a meal. According to
the ADA, blood glucose can be as high as 180 mg/dL after eating.
Personally I wouldn't check my BG until at least four hours after a
meal.


-=Andy=-

-=Andy=- wrote:
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 15:35:57 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> Now I don't know if this is true or not. But the nurse I spoke with
>> on the phone (not the one I had hoped to get but the other one) told
>> me that 2 servings of carb will raise BG 100 points. If this *is*
>> true, then how can they possibly expect your BG to drop back down to
>> what they want it to?
>
> It depends on the Carbohydrate and how quickly it breaks down during
> digestion. Carbs that break down quickly will give you a higher BG
> than those that break down slower. And this is the essence of the
> Glycemic index - so choose a Carb with a low Glycemic index.
>
> By the way, everybody's blood sugar level goes up after a meal - and
> this includes non diabetics - so it is unrealistic not to expect some
> elevation in the blood sugar level right after a meal. According to
> the ADA, blood glucose can be as high as 180 mg/dL after eating.
> Personally I wouldn't check my BG until at least four hours after a
> meal.


At 180 one would have some kind of glucose regulatory problem. The pancreas
is not designed to work that way. When a small rise is observed insulin is
released to counteract it. This happens in the first few minutes of eating,
called the phase I insulin response. Normies (i.e. those who don't have a
glucose problem) just would not go that high. Try testing some family
members after huge carb meals. My kids bg's barely move even after 200 gr
carb in one meal (not uncommon in kids). Either the pancreas does its job or
it doesn't.

"-=Andy=-" <Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote in message
news:bjbu249oboul4ocq49qbk05lsvbdvdic15@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 15:35:57 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>Now I don't know if this is true or not. But the nurse I spoke with on
>>the
>>phone (not the one I had hoped to get but the other one) told me that 2
>>servings of carb will raise BG 100 points. If this *is* true, then how
>>can
>>they possibly expect your BG to drop back down to what they want it to?
>
> It depends on the Carbohydrate and how quickly it breaks down during
> digestion. Carbs that break down quickly will give you a higher BG
> than those that break down slower. And this is the essence of the
> Glycemic index - so choose a Carb with a low Glycemic index.

That doesn't work for me at all. Whole wheat spikes me and white flour does
not. Brown rice spikes. White rice does not. Potatoes do not.
>
> By the way, everybody's blood sugar level goes up after a meal - and
> this includes non diabetics - so it is unrealistic not to expect some
> elevation in the blood sugar level right after a meal. According to
> the ADA, blood glucose can be as high as 180 mg/dL after eating.
> Personally I wouldn't check my BG until at least four hours after a
> meal.

I don't listen to the ADA. But my point is... If they *know* that amount
of carb will spike you up 100 points, then how in the world can they expect
your BG to be <140 at two hours after eating. You'd have to start out at 39
or below.

"Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:699o2eF31dppoU1@mid.individual.net...

> At 180 one would have some kind of glucose regulatory problem. The
> pancreas is not designed to work that way. When a small rise is observed
> insulin is released to counteract it. This happens in the first few
> minutes of eating, called the phase I insulin response. Normies (i.e.
> those who don't have a glucose problem) just would not go that high. Try
> testing some family members after huge carb meals. My kids bg's barely
> move even after 200 gr carb in one meal (not uncommon in kids). Either the
> pancreas does its job or it doesn't.

I've had several Drs. and dieticians tell me that normies will not go much
above 80, ever. And the new information I've seen regarding diagnosis
indicates that anyone who has BG >100 has at least pre-diabetes if not full
blown diabetes.

On Sun, 18 May 2008 04:07:03 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
wrote:
>
>I don't listen to the ADA. But my point is... If they *know* that amount
>of carb will spike you up 100 points, then how in the world can they expect
>your BG to be <140 at two hours after eating. You'd have to start out at 39
>or below.

Don't worry about the spike. The Oral Glucose Tolerance Test
requires your blood glucose reading to exceed 200 mg/dL before you are
diagnosed as a diabetic. And this, two hours after you ingest the
high-glucose solution.

Julie, it is normal for our glucose levels to increase after a meal
and that is why I don't bother to test until four hours after a meal.
It is a pain sometimes because of my urge to snack - but testing is a
priority. A better time to test is first thing in the morning.

I am new to diabetes and not an expert but in my thinking you need to
control your preprandial blood-glucose first. Conquer that milestone
before you try something else.

As an aside, trying to control spikes causes you to overcontrol,
because you are trying to hit a moving target, and that is why your
numbers from various food intakes don't make any sense. When you
said:

>That doesn't work for me at all. Whole wheat spikes me and white flour does
>not. Brown rice spikes. White rice does not. Potatoes do not.

This to me is a sign of overcontrol.

Again, I am new to this and I am extrapolating from my own limited
experience.


-=Andy=-

"-=Andy=-" <Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote in message
news:u6jv24tp07k3bpvimc0bdu2judje4kjg26@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 04:07:03 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>I don't listen to the ADA. But my point is... If they *know* that amount
>>of carb will spike you up 100 points, then how in the world can they
>>expect
>>your BG to be <140 at two hours after eating. You'd have to start out at
>>39
>>or below.
>
> Don't worry about the spike. The Oral Glucose Tolerance Test
> requires your blood glucose reading to exceed 200 mg/dL before you are
> diagnosed as a diabetic. And this, two hours after you ingest the
> high-glucose solution.

However, any reading over 100 warrants further testing.
>
> Julie, it is normal for our glucose levels to increase after a meal
> and that is why I don't bother to test until four hours after a meal.
> It is a pain sometimes because of my urge to snack - but testing is a
> priority. A better time to test is first thing in the morning.

No, it is NOT normal. And I was told to eat my meals spaced out 4 to 5
hours apart. No longer. Therefore, testing at four hours after eating
would be testing before my next meal.
>
> I am new to diabetes and not an expert but in my thinking you need to
> control your preprandial blood-glucose first. Conquer that milestone
> before you try something else.

But you see... I *can't* do that. Not like I am going now. I am *not* new
to this but I am new to insulin. My BG has shot up almost double since I
started on insulin. So something is wrong and it's not anything I am doing
on my own. Something seems to be wrong with what I am being told to do.
But I still don't know what. Do I need more insulin? Less? Another kind?
This remains to be seen. I have also been told it can take 3 months to get
the right dose of insulin. Right now we are only working on the fasting
numbers.
>
> As an aside, trying to control spikes causes you to overcontrol,
> because you are trying to hit a moving target, and that is why your
> numbers from various food intakes don't make any sense. When you
> said:
>
>>That doesn't work for me at all. Whole wheat spikes me and white flour
>>does
>>not. Brown rice spikes. White rice does not. Potatoes do not.
>
> This to me is a sign of overcontrol.

Nope. I have gastroparesis. That's delayed stomach emptying. I do not
digest fiber well. So I do better with foods with less fiber, for the most
part.

> Again, I am new to this and I am extrapolating from my own limited
> experience.

Well, I think you're off base here. But I could be wrong...

On Sat, 17 May 2008 19:32:44 GMT, -=Andy=- <Sorry@Noaddress.Com>
wrote:

>By the way, everybody's blood sugar level goes up after a meal - and
>this includes non diabetics - so it is unrealistic not to expect some
>elevation in the blood sugar level right after a meal. According to
>the ADA, blood glucose can be as high as 180 mg/dL after eating.
>Personally I wouldn't check my BG until at least four hours after a
>meal.

This is complete rubbish. Try testing a non-diabetic... my kids have
been known to be a rock-steady 4.7 (86) before, during and after a
pasta and chocolate cake meal washed down with OJ.

Once you start to have significant post-prandial excursions, you are
on the way to carbohydrate processing problems.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 May 2008 07:58:22 GMT, "Julie Bove"
> <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:

>>But how could ADDING insulin cause my BG to go so much higher?

> Read today's blog by Jenny. I think you'll find it rather
> interesting.

> When Going Low Makes You Go High: Mysteries of
> Counterregulation

> http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2...u-go-high.html

She calls it counter-regulation, and says that most doctors are not
familiar with it. In fact that kind of paradoxical result, the
opposite of what you expect, is one of the well known clues that
you're interfering with a control system. Doctors know very well that
blood sugar and imnsuln are part of a biological control system. What
is more, what distinguishes living systems from inanimate ones more
than anything else is the plethora of complex control systems
involved.

The fact that dcotors are taught almost nothing about the behaviour of
control systems is IMHO a scandalous deficiency in medical education.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

convicted friend Chris Malcolm wrote:
> convicted neighbor Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
> > convicted neighbor "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>But how could ADDING insulin cause my BG to go so much higher?
>
> > Read today's blog by Jenny. I think you'll find it rather
> > interesting.
>
> > When Going Low Makes You Go High: Mysteries of
> > Counterregulation
>
> > http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2...u-go-high.html
>
> She calls it counter-regulation, and says that most doctors are not
> familiar with it. In fact that kind of paradoxical result, the
> opposite of what you expect, is one of the well known clues that
> you're interfering with a control system. Doctors know very well that
> blood sugar and imnsuln are part of a biological control system. What
> is more, what distinguishes living systems from inanimate ones more
> than anything else is the plethora of complex control systems
> involved.
>
> The fact that dcotors are taught almost nothing about the behaviour of
> control systems is IMHO a scandalous deficiency in medical education.

It is a scandalous deficiency in undergraduate education in applied
science.

Control system theory would not have to be taught in medical school if
medical students have learned it already in college from applied
science (engineering) classes that should be required of all college
students after they have been taught the basic sciences.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be euglycemic...

Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...8812d72ab4e17?

On Sat, 17 May 2008 15:47:14 GMT, "Julie Bove"
<juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:

>>>Indeed it is. And I feel like I have to play along and do what they say
>>>or
>>>I will be non-compliant. If I am non-compliant, then they will say that
>>>is
>>>the reason I have high BG. I just can't win.
>>>
>>
>> Have you ever seen "Hitch-hikers Guide to the galaxy" Julie?
>>
>> I believe that you would meet a kindred spirit. His name is
>> Marvin:-)
>
>No, Never seen it.
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQqeidrlDyw

Enjoy (Marvin is the one with triangular green eyes:-)

And prove me wrong...

Best wishes,

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

On Sat, 17 May 2008 19:32:44 GMT, -=Andy=-
<Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:

>
>By the way, everybody's blood sugar level goes up after a meal - and
>this includes non diabetics - so it is unrealistic not to expect some
>elevation in the blood sugar level right after a meal. According to
>the ADA, blood glucose can be as high as 180 mg/dL after eating.
>Personally I wouldn't check my BG until at least four hours after a
>meal.

I rarely say this mate; or at least not since things
improved around here.

You're a dickhead. You're welcome to believe fairytales and
practise the ostrich method of BG management yourself - it's
your life. But don't start promoting it around here and
expect people to take you seriously.

I must have clicked on the wrong button - I thought I had
killfiled you.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

On Sun, 18 May 2008 07:30:57 GMT, -=Andy=-
<Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:

>On Sun, 18 May 2008 04:07:03 GMT, "Julie Bove" <juliebove@verizon.net>
>wrote:
>>
>>I don't listen to the ADA. But my point is... If they *know* that amount
>>of carb will spike you up 100 points, then how in the world can they expect
>>your BG to be <140 at two hours after eating. You'd have to start out at 39
>>or below.
>
>Don't worry about the spike. The Oral Glucose Tolerance Test
>requires your blood glucose reading to exceed 200 mg/dL before you are
>diagnosed as a diabetic. And this, two hours after you ingest the
>high-glucose solution.
>
>Julie, it is normal for our glucose levels to increase after a meal
>and that is why I don't bother to test until four hours after a meal.
>It is a pain sometimes because of my urge to snack - but testing is a
>priority. A better time to test is first thing in the morning.
>
>I am new to diabetes and not an expert

That is the only intelligent thing I have seen in a post by
you since your arrival.

Most people attempt to learn before they teach.
Unfortunately, some try to reverse the process.

>but in my thinking you need to
>control your preprandial blood-glucose first. Conquer that milestone
>before you try something else.
>
>As an aside, trying to control spikes causes you to overcontrol,
>because you are trying to hit a moving target, and that is why your
>numbers from various food intakes don't make any sense. When you
>said:
>
>>That doesn't work for me at all. Whole wheat spikes me and white flour does
>>not. Brown rice spikes. White rice does not. Potatoes do not.
>
>This to me is a sign of overcontrol.
>
>Again, I am new to this and I am extrapolating from my own limited
>experience.
>
>
>-=Andy=-
>
Andy, if you are genuinely mistaken and prepared to read and
learn from the others here I apologise for seeming hostile.

But I see so much dangerous nonsense for lurking newbies in
every post I've seen from you that I can't sit on my hands
and ignore it.

Convince me that I've over-reacted. Or not.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com
Latest:What to Eat Until You Get Your Meter.

Angkor Wat
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com

x-no-archive: yes

Chris Malcolm wrote:
> Alan S <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 17 May 2008 07:58:22 GMT, "Julie Bove"
>><juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>But how could ADDING insulin cause my BG to go so much higher?
>
>
>>Read today's blog by Jenny. I think you'll find it rather
>>interesting.
>
>
>>When Going Low Makes You Go High: Mysteries of
>>Counterregulation
>
>
>>http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2...u-go-high.html
>
>
> She calls it counter-regulation, and says that most doctors are not
> familiar with it. In fact that kind of paradoxical result, the
> opposite of what you expect, is one of the well known clues that
> you're interfering with a control system. Doctors know very well that
> blood sugar and imnsuln are part of a biological control system. What
> is more, what distinguishes living systems from inanimate ones more
> than anything else is the plethora of complex control systems
> involved.
>
> The fact that dcotors are taught almost nothing about the behaviour of
> control systems is IMHO a scandalous deficiency in medical education.
>

And it's a REALLY BIG CLUE that you have Cushing's disease as the basis
of your diabetes, most often.

Susan

on 18/05/2008, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD supposed :

> Be hungry...

oh dear...

"Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ln70349dtmlv37khi04gc0tqjjpvu0oc00@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 May 2008 15:47:14 GMT, "Julie Bove"
> <juliebove@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>>>Indeed it is. And I feel like I have to play along and do what they say
>>>>or
>>>>I will be non-compliant. If I am non-compliant, then they will say that
>>>>is
>>>>the reason I have high BG. I just can't win.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Have you ever seen "Hitch-hikers Guide to the galaxy" Julie?
>>>
>>> I believe that you would meet a kindred spirit. His name is
>>> Marvin:-)
>>
>>No, Never seen it.
>>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQqeidrlDyw
>
> Enjoy (Marvin is the one with triangular green eyes:-)
>
> And prove me wrong...

I don't like to prove people wrong. And I don't know why I would find that
a kindred spirit. I guess that is humor, but it's not my style and frankly
I couldn't watch it to the end. I didn't get that at all.

On Sun, 18 May 2008 22:29:58 +1000, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 17 May 2008 19:32:44 GMT, -=Andy=-
><Sorry@Noaddress.Com> wrote:
>
>>
>>By the way, everybody's blood sugar level goes up after a meal - and
>>this includes non diabetics - so it is unrealistic not to expect some
>>elevation in the blood sugar level right after a meal. According to
>>the ADA, blood glucose can be as high as 180 mg/dL after eating.
>>Personally I wouldn't check my BG until at least four hours after a
>>meal.
>
>I rarely say this mate; or at least not since things
>improved around here.
>
>You're a dickhead. You're welcome to believe fairytales and
>practise the ostrich method of BG management yourself - it's
>your life. But don't start promoting it around here and
>expect people to take you seriously.

The above information is my understanding of what I read in "Reader's
Digest, Stopping Diabetes In Its Tracks" - New York 2007 written in
consultation with a number of doctors and endocrinologists.

On page 62 under the heading "Setting Blood-Sugar Goals" it says:

"According to the American Diabetes Association you should strive to
keep glucose levels at:
80 to 120 mg/dl before eating
less than 180 mg/dl after eating
100 to 140 mg/dl at bedtime"

And then it goes on to say that if you are outside these parameters
then additional measures might be necessary to control blood sugar
levels etc.

The important thing that stands out for me is that blood sugar
variation is normal; i.e. blood sugar is dynamic, meaning it varies
with what we eat and when we measure it. For diabetics, it is
important to know "when to test" otherwise, this normal variability of
blood sugar level will make our test results meaningless.

It is this variability, by the way, that gave rise to the "Glycemic
Index" concept. "The concept was developed by Dr. David J. Jenkins
and colleagues including Dr Tom Wolever in 1980-1981 at the University
of Toronto in their research to find out which foods were best for
people with diabetes." - Wikipedia has a good article on this. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index


-=Andy=-

On Sun, 18 May 2008 22:29:58 +1000, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>I must have clicked on the