Raw milk, healty!

Any one drinking raw milk?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U96K1wOCDbc
JS

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 08:45:20 -0800, Protagonist <szaki10@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Any one drinking raw milk?
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U96K1wOCDbc

Wish I could source it. There's a move in the UK to switch all milk
production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much rather
drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy pasteurised milk,
and I would rather have my enzymes in the milk left intact... I
wouldn't feed it to a baby or a frail senior, but there's no-one in my
household in those brackets any more.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:0ke6l35crh119jb929vacqh8ngcdbag18s@4ax.com...
>
> There's a move in the UK to switch all milk
> production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much rather
> drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy pasteurised milk,
>

Why do they want to go to UHT instead of just regular pasteurised?
bj

Nicky wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 08:45:20 -0800, Protagonist <szaki10@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Any one drinking raw milk?
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U96K1wOCDbc
>
> Wish I could source it. There's a move in the UK to switch all milk
> production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much rather
> drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy pasteurised milk,
> and I would rather have my enzymes in the milk left intact... I
> wouldn't feed it to a baby or a frail senior, but there's no-one in my
> household in those brackets any more.
>
> Nicky.
> T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
> Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

Here in California raw milk is legal, long as it's inspected for
bacteria count.
Few outlets, like Whole Foods Market chain sells it, but don't have it
all the time. Sells out fast!
Small farmers in other states get around the law, by selling it as a pet
food or costumer buys interest in a cow, part ownership, for $10-$20.
People claim feel better, digest better, more energy etc...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MtXl...eature=related
JS

Before making dairy milk (raw or pastuerized) a dietary staple,
consider the following:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/multimedia/tv/1455.html
http://www.betacasein.org/index.php/...pi_pageid/95#5

Nicky wrote:

> Wish I could source it. There's a move in the UK to switch all milk
> production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much rather
> drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy pasteurised milk,
> and I would rather have my enzymes in the milk left intact... I
> wouldn't feed it to a baby or a frail senior, but there's no-one in my
> household in those brackets any more.

I'd prefer raw dairy products if I were buying them from a local farmer
who I knew and/or raised them myself.

There are farms around here where they sell raw milk, but in PA, it's
illegal to sell raw cream, yogurt and cottage cheese from the farm,
which is what I actually buy. I buy raw hard cheeses, I choose cream
that is minimally pasteurized rather than ultra-pasteurized and try to
make sure I'm getting products from pasture-raised animals.

But with bulk dairy production, milk from many farmers being pooled,
moved into tanks, then decanted into containers, moved to stores, etc.
- too many people are handling it and I don't trust that many folks to
be competent. If the milk is in a grocery store, I think it must be
pastured.

I'd be willing to buy raw milk from the farmer down the road, but not
from Walmart.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

In news:0ke6l35crh119jb929vacqh8ngcdbag18s@4ax.com,
Nicky typed on Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:08:46 +0000:
> Wish I could source it. There's a move in the UK to switch all milk
> production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much rather
> drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy pasteurised milk,
> and I would rather have my enzymes in the milk left intact... I
> wouldn't feed it to a baby or a frail senior, but there's no-one in my
> household in those brackets any more.

I am with you Nicky. I wish I could find raw milk. And we are exposed to
common germs all of the time. And sadly, the ones that get sick are the
ones who tries to avoid germs at all costs. I believe because their
immune systems has never developed correctly because of their practice.

For example, the joke here in the US is don't drink the water in Mexico.
Why? Because of the bacteria in the water and most Americans immune
system fails to protect them. But it doesn't bother the Mexicans who
drink it, now does it?

--
Bill
DX 1992 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 4/2007 10.5
A1c 6/2007 7.4
A1c 8/2007 6.8

In news:475403d1$0$1342$834e42db@reader.greatnowhere. com,
BillW50 typed on Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:22:47 -0600:
> I am with you Nicky. I wish I could find raw milk. And we are exposed
> to common germs all of the time. And sadly, the ones that get sick
> are the ones who tries to avoid germs at all costs. I believe because
> their immune systems has never developed correctly because of their
> practice.
> For example, the joke here in the US is don't drink the water in
> Mexico. Why? Because of the bacteria in the water and most Americans
> immune system fails to protect them. But it doesn't bother the
> Mexicans who drink it, now does it?

I should add the states that I know that allows raw milk to be sold, has
higher sanitary standards than dairies which produces pasteurized milk.
But still, I believe a sanitized world is more harmful to one's health
than a non-sanitized one.

--
Bill
DX 1992 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 4/2007 10.5
A1c 6/2007 7.4
A1c 8/2007 6.8

BillW50 wrote:
> In news:0ke6l35crh119jb929vacqh8ngcdbag18s@4ax.com,
> Nicky typed on Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:08:46 +0000:
>> Wish I could source it. There's a move in the UK to switch all milk
>> production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much rather
>> drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy pasteurised milk,
>> and I would rather have my enzymes in the milk left intact... I
>> wouldn't feed it to a baby or a frail senior, but there's no-one in my
>> household in those brackets any more.
>
> I am with you Nicky. I wish I could find raw milk. And we are exposed
> to common germs all of the time. And sadly, the ones that get sick are
> the ones who tries to avoid germs at all costs. I believe because
> their immune systems has never developed correctly because of their
> practice.
>
> For example, the joke here in the US is don't drink the water in
> Mexico. Why? Because of the bacteria in the water and most Americans
> immune system fails to protect them. But it doesn't bother the
> Mexicans who drink it, now does it?
>

The big problem is ignorant pepople - like you
every year in the US people get sick fromraw milk - often (lioke thios
year) people die. Buit idiots like you still beleive init

THEN there is the truely incredible statement about water. SHEESH do
you have two brain cells to rub together?? I haven't seen anything
thatidiotic in years

In news:fj1478$btt$1@aioe.org,
ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:34:59 -0500:
> BillW50 wrote:
>> In news:0ke6l35crh119jb929vacqh8ngcdbag18s@4ax.com,
>> Nicky typed on Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:08:46 +0000:
>>> Wish I could source it. There's a move in the UK to switch all milk
>>> production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much rather
>>> drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy pasteurised
>>> milk, and I would rather have my enzymes in the milk left intact...
>>> I wouldn't feed it to a baby or a frail senior, but there's no-one
>>> in my household in those brackets any more.
>>
>> I am with you Nicky. I wish I could find raw milk. And we are exposed
>> to common germs all of the time. And sadly, the ones that get sick
>> are the ones who tries to avoid germs at all costs. I believe because
>> their immune systems has never developed correctly because of their
>> practice.
>>
>> For example, the joke here in the US is don't drink the water in
>> Mexico. Why? Because of the bacteria in the water and most Americans
>> immune system fails to protect them. But it doesn't bother the
>> Mexicans who drink it, now does it?
>
> The big problem is ignorant pepople - like you
> every year in the US people get sick fromraw milk - often (lioke thios
> year) people die. Buit idiots like you still beleive init
>
> THEN there is the truely incredible statement about water. SHEESH do
> you have two brain cells to rub together?? I haven't seen anything
> thatidiotic in years

Really Ted? Where are these people? My dad was raised on a farm and he
drank raw milk all of the time and he didn't get sick. And he is still
alive today. And I get my water from a well. Which I was told (by the
hospital) all wells contain bacteria (thus you shouldn't use it to wash
yourself with after surgery -- which I did anyway). And that doesn't
seem to harm me either.

People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people who are
doing it. -- Anonymous

--
Bill
DX 1992 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 4/2007 10.5
A1c 6/2007 7.4
A1c 8/2007 6.8

On Dec 3, 12:12 am, Protagonist <szak...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Nicky wrote:
> > On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 08:45:20 -0800, Protagonist <szak...@comcast.net>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Any one drinking raw milk?
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U96K1wOCDbc
>
> > Wish I could source it. There's a move in the UK to switch all milk
> > production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much rather
> > drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy pasteurised milk,
> > and I would rather have my enzymes in the milk left intact... I
> > wouldn't feed it to a baby or a frail senior, but there's no-one in my
> > household in those brackets any more.
>
> > Nicky.
> > T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
> > D&E, 100ug thyroxine
> > Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25
>
> Here in California raw milk is legal, long as it's inspected for
> bacteria count.
> Few outlets, like Whole Foods Market chain sells it, but don't have it
> all the time. Sells out fast!
> Small farmers in other states get around the law, by selling it as a pet
> food or costumer buys interest in a cow, part ownership, for $10-$20.
> People claim feel better, digest better, more energy etc...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MtXl...eature=related
>

Unfortunately you will not have that option as CA. is considering
legislation that will make effectively elimanate raw milk .

Thanks Vince

In
news:1bdd56c8-7020-4d94-b5f8-43f76ef135a1@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com,
bigvince typed on Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:58:59 -0800 (PST):
> Unfortunately you will not have that option as CA. is considering
> legislation that will make effectively elimanate raw milk .
>
> Thanks Vince

That is sad when the land of the so called free, takes away people's
freedom! Dictatorship at its best! I heard that Massachusetts is
considering to outlaw spanking. Dictorships hate un-whimpy subjects.

--
Bill
DX 1992 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 4/2007 10.5
A1c 6/2007 7.4
A1c 8/2007 6.8

BillW50 wrote:

> Really Ted? Where are these people? My dad was raised on a farm and he
> drank raw milk all of the time and he didn't get sick. And he is still
> alive today. And I get my water from a well. Which I was told (by the
> hospital) all wells contain bacteria (thus you shouldn't use it to wash
> yourself with after surgery -- which I did anyway). And that doesn't
> seem to harm me either.

I know a lot of folks who drink raw milk as I'm surrounded by dairy
farms here and it's legal to sell raw milk off the farm. The farm must
be licensed for raw milk sales, which requires certain standards of
cleanliness and periodic bacterial testing of the milk.

Most of the farm families here drink raw milk, even those who sell their
milk for bulk processing and must pastuerize it; they keep raw milk out
for their own use.

I've never heard of any problems locally.

There's an Amish guy down the road fighting the state cause their
license doesn't allow him to sell raw cream, cottage cheese or yogurt.
The biggest problem the state is having in this lawsuit is finding any
evidence of a problem. It seems if people were getting ill from raw
milk, they wouldn't have this problem with the lawsuit.

I drink well water also. It's a good source of minerals here, must be
as it leaves mineral stains on everything in the house! That being
said, I also *know* how far my septic tank and the cows the neighboring
beef farmer raises are from my well; I'd be less trusting if I didn't
know that for sure.

I still think when large amounts are processed, as for bulk milk
distribution and/or a town water supply, pastuerization and/or
chlorine-treatment is a good idea. I'm only trusting of competence on a
small scale when I know the situation and people involved.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

BillW50 wrote:
> In news:fj1478$btt$1@aioe.org,
> ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:34:59 -0500:
>> BillW50 wrote:
>>> In news:0ke6l35crh119jb929vacqh8ngcdbag18s@4ax.com,
>>> Nicky typed on Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:08:46 +0000:
>>>> Wish I could source it. There's a move in the UK to switch all milk
>>>> production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much rather
>>>> drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy pasteurised
>>>> milk, and I would rather have my enzymes in the milk left intact...
>>>> I wouldn't feed it to a baby or a frail senior, but there's no-one
>>>> in my household in those brackets any more.
>>>
>>> I am with you Nicky. I wish I could find raw milk. And we are exposed
>>> to common germs all of the time. And sadly, the ones that get sick
>>> are the ones who tries to avoid germs at all costs. I believe because
>>> their immune systems has never developed correctly because of their
>>> practice.
>>>
>>> For example, the joke here in the US is don't drink the water in
>>> Mexico. Why? Because of the bacteria in the water and most Americans
>>> immune system fails to protect them. But it doesn't bother the
>>> Mexicans who drink it, now does it?
>>
>> The big problem is ignorant pepople - like you
>> every year in the US people get sick fromraw milk - often (lioke thios
>> year) people die. Buit idiots like you still beleive init
>>
>> THEN there is the truely incredible statement about water. SHEESH do
>> you have two brain cells to rub together?? I haven't seen anything
>> thatidiotic in years
>
> Really Ted? Where are these people? My dad was raised on a farm and he
> drank raw milk all of the time and he didn't get sick. And he is still
> alive today. And I get my water from a well. Which I was told (by the
> hospital) all wells contain bacteria (thus you shouldn't use it to
> wash yourself with after surgery -- which I did anyway). And that
> doesn't seem to harm me either.
>
Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, North Carolina, and Washing State (at
least) have had disease outbreaks THIS year traced to raw milk.

You remind m\e of the Baltimore City Health commissioner in 1929, When
someone complained about fresh skinned rabbits sold at the market. He
said "I grew up on a farm, I skinned rabbits, I'm still; here - of
course they are safe!" He then marched down to the market and skinned a
rabbit - he had a small cut onhis hand, and he died of Tulerima late the
next day,


> People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people who
> are doing it. -- Anonymous
>
People who are ignorant and stupid shoul;d not injure thepublic

BillW50 wrote:
> In
> news:1bdd56c8-7020-4d94-b5f8-43f76ef135a1@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com,
> bigvince typed on Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:58:59 -0800 (PST):
>> Unfortunately you will not have that option as CA. is considering
>> legislation that will make effectively elimanate raw milk .
>>
>> Thanks Vince
>
> That is sad when the land of the so called free, takes away people's
> freedom! Dictatorship at its best! I heard that Massachusetts is
> considering to outlaw spanking. Dictorships hate un-whimpy subjects.
>
RIGHT we have those pesky health laws which prohibit the sale of
contaminated crap. It would be SO much freeer if you could package
sugar syrup and sell it as :Insulin

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 02:52:09 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
wrote:

>"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
>news:0ke6l35crh119jb929vacqh8ngcdbag18s@4ax.com.. .
>>
>> There's a move in the UK to switch all milk
>> production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much rather
>> drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy pasteurised milk,
>>
>
>Why do they want to go to UHT instead of just regular pasteurised?

They claim it'll be a big step in our efforts towards global warming
reduction, because the milk won't need refrigeration.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

In news:fj1g9j$o43$2@aioe.org,
ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:01:23 -0500:
> BillW50 wrote:
>> In
>> news:1bdd56c8-7020-4d94-b5f8-43f76ef135a1@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com,
>> bigvince typed on Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:58:59 -0800 (PST):
>>> Unfortunately you will not have that option as CA. is considering
>>> legislation that will make effectively elimanate raw milk .
>>>
>>> Thanks Vince
>>
>> That is sad when the land of the so called free, takes away people's
>> freedom! Dictatorship at its best! I heard that Massachusetts is
>> considering to outlaw spanking. Dictorships hate un-whimpy subjects.
>>
> RIGHT we have those pesky health laws which prohibit the sale of
> contaminated crap. It would be SO much freeer if you could package
> sugar syrup and sell it as :Insulin

Yuck! Why would you think that? Personally, I don't think the health
laws are tough enough. As we wouldn't have contaminated spinach, peanut
butter, etc. And if those surgeons actually washed their hands, we
wouldn't have that staph problem either.

What I do have a problem with is those that are doing a fine job of
keeping things sanitized, but are being treated like crimimals. See the
difference Ted?

--
Bill
DX 1992 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 4/2007 10.5
A1c 6/2007 7.4
A1c 8/2007 6.8

In news:fj1g5j$o43$1@aioe.org,
ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:59:05 -0500:
> BillW50 wrote:
>> In news:fj1478$btt$1@aioe.org,
>> ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:34:59 -0500:
>>> BillW50 wrote:
>>>> In news:0ke6l35crh119jb929vacqh8ngcdbag18s@4ax.com,
>>>> Nicky typed on Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:08:46 +0000:
>>>>> Wish I could source it. There's a move in the UK to switch all
>>>>> milk production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much
>>>>> rather drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy
>>>>> pasteurised milk, and I would rather have my enzymes in the milk
>>>>> left intact... I wouldn't feed it to a baby or a frail senior,
>>>>> but there's no-one in my household in those brackets any more.
>>>>
>>>> I am with you Nicky. I wish I could find raw milk. And we are
>>>> exposed to common germs all of the time. And sadly, the ones that
>>>> get sick are the ones who tries to avoid germs at all costs. I
>>>> believe because their immune systems has never developed correctly
>>>> because of their practice.
>>>>
>>>> For example, the joke here in the US is don't drink the water in
>>>> Mexico. Why? Because of the bacteria in the water and most
>>>> Americans immune system fails to protect them. But it doesn't
>>>> bother the Mexicans who drink it, now does it?
>>>
>>> The big problem is ignorant pepople - like you
>>> every year in the US people get sick fromraw milk - often (lioke
>>> thios year) people die. Buit idiots like you still beleive init
>>>
>>> THEN there is the truely incredible statement about water. SHEESH
>>> do you have two brain cells to rub together?? I haven't seen
>>> anything thatidiotic in years
>>
>> Really Ted? Where are these people? My dad was raised on a farm and
>> he drank raw milk all of the time and he didn't get sick. And he is
>> still alive today. And I get my water from a well. Which I was told
>> (by the hospital) all wells contain bacteria (thus you shouldn't use
>> it to wash yourself with after surgery -- which I did anyway). And
>> that doesn't seem to harm me either.
>>
> Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, North Carolina, and Washing State
> (at least) have had disease outbreaks THIS year traced to raw milk.

Really Ted? So let me see if I got this right! If one farm has
contaminated raw milk, then they all do? Is that right Ted? If so, what
kind of science is that?

> You remind m\e of the Baltimore City Health commissioner in 1929, When
> someone complained about fresh skinned rabbits sold at the
> market. He said "I grew up on a farm, I skinned rabbits, I'm still;
> here - of course they are safe!" He then marched down to the market
> and skinned a rabbit - he had a small cut onhis hand, and he died of
> Tulerima late the next day,

And you remind me of a surgeon who claims that hospitals are safe. While
the patient dies from a staph infection. You see Ted, it works both
ways.

>> People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people who
>> are doing it. -- Anonymous
>>
> People who are ignorant and stupid shoul;d not injure thepublic

I believe this too Ted. So why are you injuring the public for? You know
between about 1500 to about 1900 in America. People would drink beer
(even children) because lots of people who drank water got sick and
died. But people who drank only beer didn't (and people with beer made
lots of Indian friends). So following your logic, people should be all
drinking beer, eh?

And did you know Ted, people who lives in a sanitized environment often
leds one with a defective immune system. As the immune system hasn't
learned what to do when an invader comes along. And since the odds are
stacked against an individual and they do come in contact someday with a
bug. Their immune system attacks the individual itself and kills them.
Yeah... that is the kind of people you want in this world. Isn't it Ted?


--
Bill
DX 1992 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 4/2007 10.5
A1c 6/2007 7.4
A1c 8/2007 6.8

In news:47544157$0$2779$470ef3ce@news.pa.net,
Jackie Patti typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:48:02 -0500:
> BillW50 wrote:
>
>> Really Ted? Where are these people? My dad was raised on a farm and
>> he drank raw milk all of the time and he didn't get sick. And he is
>> still alive today. And I get my water from a well. Which I was told
>> (by the hospital) all wells contain bacteria (thus you shouldn't use
>> it to wash yourself with after surgery -- which I did anyway). And
>> that doesn't seem to harm me either.
>
> I know a lot of folks who drink raw milk as I'm surrounded by dairy
> farms here and it's legal to sell raw milk off the farm. The farm
> must be licensed for raw milk sales, which requires certain standards
> of cleanliness and periodic bacterial testing of the milk.
>
> Most of the farm families here drink raw milk, even those who sell
> their milk for bulk processing and must pastuerize it; they keep raw
> milk out for their own use.
>
> I've never heard of any problems locally.
>
> There's an Amish guy down the road fighting the state cause their
> license doesn't allow him to sell raw cream, cottage cheese or yogurt.
> The biggest problem the state is having in this lawsuit is finding any
> evidence of a problem. It seems if people were getting ill from raw
> milk, they wouldn't have this problem with the lawsuit.
>
> I drink well water also. It's a good source of minerals here, must be
> as it leaves mineral stains on everything in the house! That being
> said, I also *know* how far my septic tank and the cows the
> neighboring beef farmer raises are from my well; I'd be less trusting
> if I didn't know that for sure.
>
> I still think when large amounts are processed, as for bulk milk
> distribution and/or a town water supply, pastuerization and/or
> chlorine-treatment is a good idea. I'm only trusting of competence
> on a small scale when I know the situation and people involved.

Yup I totally agree Jackie.

--
Bill

ted rosenberg wrote:

> Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, North Carolina, and Washing State (at
> least) have had disease outbreaks THIS year traced to raw milk.

Licensed raw milk in PA? Any idea where this happened or when?

Last I heard, PA was having a hard time justifying restrictions on raw
cream, yogurt and cottage cheese cause the licensed raw milk hasn't had
any problems. That was a few months back, so maybe things changed since
then...


--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

BillW50 wrote:
> In news:fj1g9j$o43$2@aioe.org,
> ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:01:23 -0500:
>> BillW50 wrote:
>>> In
>>> news:1bdd56c8-7020-4d94-b5f8-43f76ef135a1@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com,
>>> bigvince typed on Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:58:59 -0800 (PST):
>>>> Unfortunately you will not have that option as CA. is considering
>>>> legislation that will make effectively elimanate raw milk .
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Vince
>>>
>>> That is sad when the land of the so called free, takes away people's
>>> freedom! Dictatorship at its best! I heard that Massachusetts is
>>> considering to outlaw spanking. Dictorships hate un-whimpy subjects.
>>>
>> RIGHT we have those pesky health laws which prohibit the sale of
>> contaminated crap. It would be SO much freeer if you could package
>> sugar syrup and sell it as :Insulin
>
> Yuck! Why would you think that? Personally, I don't think the health
> laws are tough enough. As we wouldn't have contaminated spinach,
> peanut butter, etc. And if those surgeons actually washed their hands,
> we wouldn't have that staph problem either.
>
> What I do have a problem with is those that are doing a fine job of
> keeping things sanitized, but are being treated like crimimals. See
> the difference Ted?
>
The depths of your ignorence never cease to anaze me - why don't you try
out for the "jay Leno Jaywalkers"

What EVER gavbe you the warped idea that health laws cause e-coli in
spimich?, or that surgons don't wash their hands.

no don't answer. every time you answer you make a statement stupider
than the last

BillW50 wrote:
> In news:fj1g5j$o43$1@aioe.org,
> ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:59:05 -0500:
>> BillW50 wrote:
>>> In news:fj1478$btt$1@aioe.org,
>>> ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:34:59 -0500:
>>>> BillW50 wrote:
>>>>> In news:0ke6l35crh119jb929vacqh8ngcdbag18s@4ax.com,
>>>>> Nicky typed on Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:08:46 +0000:
>>>>>> Wish I could source it. There's a move in the UK to switch all
>>>>>> milk production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much
>>>>>> rather drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy
>>>>>> pasteurised milk, and I would rather have my enzymes in the milk
>>>>>> left intact... I wouldn't feed it to a baby or a frail senior,
>>>>>> but there's no-one in my household in those brackets any more.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am with you Nicky. I wish I could find raw milk. And we are
>>>>> exposed to common germs all of the time. And sadly, the ones that
>>>>> get sick are the ones who tries to avoid germs at all costs. I
>>>>> believe because their immune systems has never developed correctly
>>>>> because of their practice.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, the joke here in the US is don't drink the water in
>>>>> Mexico. Why? Because of the bacteria in the water and most
>>>>> Americans immune system fails to protect them. But it doesn't
>>>>> bother the Mexicans who drink it, now does it?
>>>>
>>>> The big problem is ignorant pepople - like you
>>>> every year in the US people get sick fromraw milk - often (lioke
>>>> thios year) people die. Buit idiots like you still beleive init
>>>>
>>>> THEN there is the truely incredible statement about water. SHEESH
>>>> do you have two brain cells to rub together?? I haven't seen
>>>> anything thatidiotic in years
>>>
>>> Really Ted? Where are these people? My dad was raised on a farm and
>>> he drank raw milk all of the time and he didn't get sick. And he is
>>> still alive today. And I get my water from a well. Which I was told
>>> (by the hospital) all wells contain bacteria (thus you shouldn't use
>>> it to wash yourself with after surgery -- which I did anyway). And
>>> that doesn't seem to harm me either.
>>>
>> Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, North Carolina, and Washing State
>> (at least) have had disease outbreaks THIS year traced to raw milk.
>
> Really Ted? So let me see if I got this right! If one farm has
> contaminated raw milk, then they all do? Is that right Ted? If so,
> what kind of science is that?

while raw milk represents less than 0.1% of the milk supply, it
represents 100% oft the contaminated milk! My wife's parents AND
grandparents were dairymen, and if they received a shipment of
unpasteurized milk by mistake, they would have dumped all the tanks and
steam cleaned the entire dairy.+.
>
>> You remind m\e of the Baltimore City Health commissioner in 1929,
>> When someone complained about fresh skinned rabbits sold at the
>> market. He said "I grew up on a farm, I skinned rabbits, I'm still;
>> here - of course they are safe!" He then marched down to the market
>> and skinned a rabbit - he had a small cut onhis hand, and he died of
>> Tulerima late the next day,
>
> And you remind me of a surgeon who claims that hospitals are safe.
> While the patient dies from a staph infection. You see Ted, it works
> both ways.
>
>>> People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people who
>>> are doing it. -- Anonymous
>>>
>> People who are ignorant and stupid shoul;d not injure thepublic
>
> I believe this too Ted. So why are you injuring the public for? You
> know between about 1500 to about 1900 in America. People would drink
> beer (even children) because lots of people who drank water got sick
> and died. But people who drank only beer didn't (and people with beer
> made lots of Indian friends). So following your logic, people should
> be all drinking beer, eh?

NO dumb-dumb. They drank what THEY called beer. or "small beer" not the
same at all, AND, prior to health laws, it was quite a bit safer. In
biblical times, people drank "mingled" wine. about 75% water and 25%
wine. like small beer, tne enzymes ate most of the more likely
bacteria, like the Typhus abd aemoaebic diseases.. After the beginnings
of Public Health, it became possible to get water safe to drink. In
fact safwer than the old beverages.
>
> And did you know Ted, people who lives in a sanitized environment
> often leds one with a defective immune system. As the immune system
> hasn't learned what to do when an invader comes along. And since the
> odds are stacked against an individual and they do come in contact
> someday with a bug. Their immune system attacks the individual itself
> and kills them. Yeah... that is the kind of people you want in this
> world. Isn't it Ted?

You have a small point here. by accident, but a small point. There is
one disease (only one) which increased in danger due to clean water.
All others simply killed most of the people who got them. The few
survivors WERE probably resistant, but, they were probably resistant
before. You can expose yourself to common hantaviri. I'll send flowers.

Jackie Patti wrote:
> ted rosenberg wrote:
>
>> Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, North Carolina, and Washing State
>> (at least) have had disease outbreaks THIS year traced to raw milk.
>
> Licensed raw milk in PA? Any idea where this happened or when?
>
> Last I heard, PA was having a hard time justifying restrictions on raw
> cream, yogurt and cottage cheese cause the licensed raw milk hasn't
> had any problems. That was a few months back, so maybe things changed
> since then...
>
>
Just shows that you don't read the newspapers or watch the news

In news:fj1lu4$dca$1@aioe.org,
ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:37:38 -0500:
> BillW50 wrote:
>> In news:fj1g9j$o43$2@aioe.org,
>> ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:01:23 -0500:
>>> BillW50 wrote:
>>>> In
>>>> news:1bdd56c8-7020-4d94-b5f8-43f76ef135a1@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com,
>>>> bigvince typed on Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:58:59 -0800 (PST):
>>>>> Unfortunately you will not have that option as CA. is considering
>>>>> legislation that will make effectively elimanate raw milk .
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Vince
>>>>
>>>> That is sad when the land of the so called free, takes away
>>>> people's freedom! Dictatorship at its best! I heard that
>>>> Massachusetts is considering to outlaw spanking. Dictorships hate
>>>> un-whimpy subjects.
>>> RIGHT we have those pesky health laws which prohibit the sale of
>>> contaminated crap. It would be SO much freeer if you could package
>>> sugar syrup and sell it as :Insulin
>>
>> Yuck! Why would you think that? Personally, I don't think the health
>> laws are tough enough. As we wouldn't have contaminated spinach,
>> peanut butter, etc. And if those surgeons actually washed their
>> hands, we wouldn't have that staph problem either.
>>
>> What I do have a problem with is those that are doing a fine job of
>> keeping things sanitized, but are being treated like crimimals. See
>> the difference Ted?
>>
> The depths of your ignorence never cease to anaze me - why don't you
> try out for the "jay Leno Jaywalkers"
>
> What EVER gavbe you the warped idea that health laws cause e-coli in
> spimich?, or that surgons don't wash their hands.

I never said that, now did I?

> no don't answer. every time you answer you make a statement stupider
> than the last

Too bad the writers strike is over. I'm sure there was a market for your
Juggernaut.

--
Bill
DX 1992 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 4/2007 10.5
A1c 6/2007 7.4
A1c 8/2007 6.8

In news:fj1mv6$h90$1@aioe.org,
ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:55:04 -0500:
> BillW50 wrote:
>> In news:fj1g5j$o43$1@aioe.org,
>> ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:59:05 -0500:
>>> BillW50 wrote:
>>>> In news:fj1478$btt$1@aioe.org,
>>>> ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:34:59 -0500:
>>>>> BillW50 wrote:
>>>>>> In news:0ke6l35crh119jb929vacqh8ngcdbag18s@4ax.com,
>>>>>> Nicky typed on Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:08:46 +0000:
>>>>>>> Wish I could source it. There's a move in the UK to switch all
>>>>>>> milk production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much
>>>>>>> rather drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy
>>>>>>> pasteurised milk, and I would rather have my enzymes in the milk
>>>>>>> left intact... I wouldn't feed it to a baby or a frail senior,
>>>>>>> but there's no-one in my household in those brackets any more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am with you Nicky. I wish I could find raw milk. And we are
>>>>>> exposed to common germs all of the time. And sadly, the ones that
>>>>>> get sick are the ones who tries to avoid germs at all costs. I
>>>>>> believe because their immune systems has never developed
>>>>>> correctly because of their practice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, the joke here in the US is don't drink the water in
>>>>>> Mexico. Why? Because of the bacteria in the water and most
>>>>>> Americans immune system fails to protect them. But it doesn't
>>>>>> bother the Mexicans who drink it, now does it?
>>>>>
>>>>> The big problem is ignorant pepople - like you
>>>>> every year in the US people get sick fromraw milk - often (lioke
>>>>> thios year) people die. Buit idiots like you still beleive init
>>>>>
>>>>> THEN there is the truely incredible statement about water. SHEESH
>>>>> do you have two brain cells to rub together?? I haven't seen
>>>>> anything thatidiotic in years
>>>>
>>>> Really Ted? Where are these people? My dad was raised on a farm and
>>>> he drank raw milk all of the time and he didn't get sick. And he is
>>>> still alive today. And I get my water from a well. Which I was told
>>>> (by the hospital) all wells contain bacteria (thus you shouldn't
>>>> use it to wash yourself with after surgery -- which I did anyway).
>>>> And that doesn't seem to harm me either.
>>>>
>>> Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, North Carolina, and Washing State
>>> (at least) have had disease outbreaks THIS year traced to raw milk.
>>
>> Really Ted? So let me see if I got this right! If one farm has
>> contaminated raw milk, then they all do? Is that right Ted? If so,
>> what kind of science is that?
>
> while raw milk represents less than 0.1% of the milk supply,

I wouldn't know.

> it represents 100% oft the contaminated milk!

Pure BS! That isn't even science.

> My wife's parents AND
> grandparents were dairymen, and if they received a shipment of
> unpasteurized milk by mistake, they would have dumped all the tanks
> and steam cleaned the entire dairy.+.

Dairymen? Unpasteurized milk? How is that possible? Did they use
pasteurized cows?

>>> You remind m\e of the Baltimore City Health commissioner in 1929,
>>> When someone complained about fresh skinned rabbits sold at the
>>> market. He said "I grew up on a farm, I skinned rabbits, I'm
>>> still; here - of course they are safe!" He then marched down to
>>> the market and skinned a rabbit - he had a small cut onhis hand,
>>> and he died of Tulerima late the next day,
>>
>> And you remind me of a surgeon who claims that hospitals are safe.
>> While the patient dies from a staph infection. You see Ted, it works
>> both ways.
>>
>>>> People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people
>>>> who are doing it. -- Anonymous
>>>>
>>> People who are ignorant and stupid shoul;d not injure thepublic
>>
>> I believe this too Ted. So why are you injuring the public for? You
>> know between about 1500 to about 1900 in America. People would drink
>> beer (even children) because lots of people who drank water got sick
>> and died. But people who drank only beer didn't (and people with beer
>> made lots of Indian friends). So following your logic, people should
>> be all drinking beer, eh?
>
> NO dumb-dumb. They drank what THEY called beer. or "small beer" not
> the same at all, AND, prior to health laws, it was quite a bit
> safer.

No! Beer was safer than water because the water was boiled to make beer.
They didn't know that all they had to do was to boil the water to have
safe water. And it had nothing to do with the laws.

> In biblical times, people drank "mingled" wine. about 75%
> water and 25% wine. like small beer, tne enzymes ate most of the
> more likely bacteria, like the Typhus abd aemoaebic diseases.. After
> the beginnings of Public Health, it became possible to get water safe
> to drink. In fact safwer than the old beverages.

I don't think so. As the water is pasteurized and the alcohol created by
the new bacteria (the friendly kind) doesn't hurt either to kill any
other bacteria either. Actually the alcohol in beer is waste product
created by the bacteria in the first place and it ends up killing them
all in time.

>> And did you know Ted, people who lives in a sanitized environment
>> often leds one with a defective immune system. As the immune system
>> hasn't learned what to do when an invader comes along. And since the
>> odds are stacked against an individual and they do come in contact
>> someday with a bug. Their immune system attacks the individual itself
>> and kills them. Yeah... that is the kind of people you want in this
>> world. Isn't it Ted?
>
> You have a small point here. by accident, but a small point. There
> is one disease (only one) which increased in danger due to clean
> water.

I didn't know that clean water imposes any harm. So what would that be?

> All others simply killed most of the people who got them. The few
> survivors WERE probably resistant, but, they were probably resistant
> before. You can expose yourself to common hantaviri. I'll send
> flowers.

I heard on the news that 40% of people are have staph, but they are not
infected from staph. How weird is that? Thousands of years ago, people
used to haul water in silver containers. As they found people didn't get
sick. Today we now know that silver kills a lot of bacteria (silver
kills bacteria by inhibiting the expression of enzymes and other
proteins essential to ATP production). Weird, isn't it? And some people
today swears that a daily dose of colloidal silver will protect one
against E. coli and other bacteria. Maybe it is true, but I won't bet my
life on it. LOL

--
Bill

In news:fj1n15$h90$2@aioe.org,
ted rosenberg typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:56:21 -0500:
> Jackie Patti wrote:
>> ted rosenberg wrote:
>>
>>> Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, North Carolina, and Washing State
>>> (at least) have had disease outbreaks THIS year traced to raw milk.
>>
>> Licensed raw milk in PA? Any idea where this happened or when?
>>
>> Last I heard, PA was having a hard time justifying restrictions on
>> raw cream, yogurt and cottage cheese cause the licensed raw milk
>> hasn't had any problems. That was a few months back, so maybe
>> things changed since then...
>>
> Just shows that you don't read the newspapers or watch the news

I watch Michigan news and read Michigan newspapers and I haven't heard
of anybody ever dying in Michigan from raw milk either. In fact, PBS had
a special (a few months back) about raw milk in Michigan and showed how
safe it was. It could happen no doubt. But one out of a million is no
reason to make the rest suffer.

--
Bill
DX 1992 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 4/2007 10.5
A1c 6/2007 7.4
A1c 8/2007 6.8

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:03:23 +0000, Nicky
<ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 02:52:09 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
>wrote:
>
>>"Nicky" <ukc802466929@btconnect.com> wrote in message
>>news:0ke6l35crh119jb929vacqh8ngcdbag18s@4ax.com. ..
>>>
>>> There's a move in the UK to switch all milk
>>> production over to UHT milk, which I loathe; I'd much, much rather
>>> drink raw milk. Currently it's only possible to buy pasteurised milk,
>>>
>>
>>Why do they want to go to UHT instead of just regular pasteurised?
>
>They claim it'll be a big step in our efforts towards global warming
>reduction, because the milk won't need refrigeration.
>
>Nicky.
>T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
>D&E, 100ug thyroxine
>Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

Hard to see how it will help unless they also come up with
ways to store all our other foods that need refrigeration
too. Your fridge will consume the same power whether it is
storing meat or milk or orange juice. The only difference
may be how often the door gets opened.

I did have problems buying fresh milk while wandering
through Central and Eastern Europe. In many stores we found
UHT to be the only choice, stacked unrefrigerated on the
shelves.

It was weird. You could smell the odour of penned-up dairy
cattle throughout many of these villages but you couldn't
buy fresh milk.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:08:10 -0600, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>In news:47544157$0$2779$470ef3ce@news.pa.net,
>Jackie Patti typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:48:02 -0500:
>> I still think when large amounts are processed, as for bulk milk
>> distribution and/or a town water supply, pastuerization and/or
>> chlorine-treatment is a good idea. I'm only trusting of competence
>> on a small scale when I know the situation and people involved.
>
>Yup I totally agree Jackie.

Me three...

When it comes out of the cow, it's sterile (assuming a healthy cow).
Mishandling is how it could get contaminated. I would want to visit
the dairy before buying the mik.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.6% BMI 25

Alan S wrote:

> Hard to see how it will help unless they also come up with
> ways to store all our other foods that need refrigeration
> too. Your fridge will consume the same power whether it is
> storing meat or milk or orange juice. The only difference
> may be how often the door gets opened.

Most foods are warehoused and shipped in large quantitites; fresh milk
requires a refrigerated warehouse and trailer whereas UHT milk doesn't.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

In news:47548c34$0$2727$470ef3ce@news.pa.net,
Jackie Patti typed on Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:07:30 -0500:
> Alan S wrote:
>
>> Hard to see how it will help unless they also come up with
>> ways to store all our other foods that need refrigeration
>> too. Your fridge will consume the same power whether it is
>> storing meat or milk or orange juice. The only difference
>> may be how often the door gets opened.
>
> Most foods are warehoused and shipped in large quantitites; fresh milk
> requires a refrigerated warehouse and trailer whereas UHT milk
> doesn't.

Good point Jackie! A point I didn't even think of and I should have.

--
Bill