Re: Am I Going to Hell?

brother noah wrote:
>
> Am I Going to Hell?
>
> Gregory Koukl
>
> Do you think that people who commit moral crimes ought to be punished?
>
> I talked in the past about the difficulty in clarifying our communication of the
> need for salvation. Frankly, to a lot of people the message of Christianity is
> not going to be palatable, but at least we can make it clear. It will not be the
> kind of thing they will be happy with. Yet, at the same time, there are things
> we can do that make it clearer and not inappropriately put stumbling blocks
> in people's way.
>
> This is why I've often said that the Gospel is offensive enough all by itself.
> Don't add any more offense to it. But we should not take out the offense that
> is inherent to the Gospel, either. This is why we are not pluralists even though
> there is pressure to be pluralists or at least inclusivistic with the Gospel. At
> the same time, we don't want to communicate the exclusivity of Christ in such
> a way as to confound those people who are listening.
>
> Christians often say, "if you believe in Jesus you go to Heaven; if you don't
> believe in Jesus you go to Hell". Is that true? Well, it is true, but it doesn't
> communicate a sense of the true circumstance. It's not coherent to most
> people because it just seems bizarre why what one person thought about
> some guy who died 2000 years ago has anything to do with their eternal
> destiny. Whether they believe in him or not seems irrelevant to anything that
> might happen after we die. So we have often not been careful to
> communicate the sense of things.
>
> We need to be clear so that someone rejects the real message and not some
> incoherent mess that some Christian has handed him that they can't make
> sense of. So, I don't say, "if you believe in Jesus you go to Heaven, and if
> you don't believe you go to Hell," because this is misleading. I'd rather try to
> explain it more accurately.
>
> Many of you are familiar with the conversation I had with a fellow at Barnes
> and Noble in which he asked me a question. I was giving a talk there as part
> of the book on relativism that Dr. Frank Beckwith and I co-authored,
> Relativism: Feet Firmly Planted in Mid-Air. Since I was talking about it in the
> bookstore, he came up afterwards and started asking questions about Jesus.
> Instead of unloading this slogan on him, I asked him this question. Do you
> think that people who commit moral crimes ought to be punished? He said,
> "Yes." I said, "Good, so do I." Second question, "Have you ever committed
> any moral crimes?" Pause. Then he said, "Yes, I guess I have." You know
> what I said to him? "So have I."
>
> This just took 30 seconds, right? Then I reflected back to him, "Look where
> we've come so far. We both believe that people who commit moral crimes
> ought to be punished. And we both believe we've committed moral crimes.
> You know what I call that? Bad news." And it is bad news.
>
> Most people are concerned with doing what is right. That was one of the first
> things he told me. "I'm Jewish. I believe in morality. I believe in God. Why do
> I have to believe in your Jesus?" Here is a man who has some level of
> commitment to the moral life. The problem is, he knows that that commitment
> does not guarantee that he is going to live a fully moral life and he's aware of
> his own moral crimes. And so am I. Now what? That is the issue? We are
> guilty. That is the bad news.
>
> This is why it is so important to get the bad news before the good news. The
> bad news gives meaning to the good news. I was able to talk about the fact
> that now we both admit we have a problem, but that there is a solution that
> God has ordained. Since He is the one who is offended, He is the one who
> can call the shots on how to fix the problem. The answer is through His Son
> Jesus, who provides mercy because he took the rap for our crimes. We got
> off. He went to jail. A modern metaphor to put it in perspective.
>
> There at least is the sense of things about Jesus being the only way. I hear it
> even asked on TV. The question is often asked honestly, but I think most of
> the time it is asked for an inflammatory effect. The person who is asking the
> question is wording it very carefully because he knows precisely how the
> faithful evangelical Christian will respond. He is counting on it so that the
> Christian says something that sounds to the rest of the people to be bizarre.
> Therefore, they can discount what the Christian says.
>
> I don't want you to sound bizarre when you answer the question I am about
> to offer. I want you to sound sensible. Here is the question. Do you think I
> am going to Hell? Now the only person who asks that is a person who thinks
> you think they're going to Hell. Ninety per cent of the time they would ask it
> because they think you are nuts and they want other people to think you are
> nuts, too. They want to get you to say in public that people who disagree
> with you are going to Hell so that you will look silly and they will look good.
> How do you deal with that?
>
> The problem, of course, is, first of all, it's probably true they are going to
> Hell. Secondly, it doesn't communicate the sense of things and so it is
> misleading. The people who ask this are generally not criminals. It's going to
> be some nice guy who is basically good and sincere. You are in a tough spot.
> You are on the defensive already, you want to answer truthfully, but you
> know by giving a truthful answer you are going to play into his hands.
>
> Jesus faced this frequently. He always got out of it, and I'm going to give you
> a way to get out. Answer the question truthfully and don't sound like an idiot.
> It doesn't mean everyone is going to believe you, fall at your feet, and want to
> receive Christ, but at least you will be able to give a proper and appropriate
> answer to those who ask you to make a defense for the hope that is within
> you (2 Peter 3:15). The answer is simply this.
>
> When somebody says, "Do you think I am going to Hell?" and you think they
> are, you say something like, "Well, I believe in justice, do you?" "Yes." "What
> is justice but that people who are guilty get punished in an appropriate way to
> their guilt? I believe that people who are guilty pay for their crimes unless they
> have been pardoned."
>
> This is very straightforward language. It fits entirely with our culture. It is
> terminology that has meaning immediately. It is also terminology that the
> person you are talking with not only is familiar with but they agree with the
> concept. We both believe the same thing here: justice. If you have committed
> any moral crimes, if you have done anything wrong, I think you will be
> punished for them unless you receive pardon. The punishment for moral
> crimes is Hell.
>
> You are saying yes, I think you are going to Hell unless you receive Jesus.
> But you are putting it in terms that are making more sense to that individual.
> In fact, he has already affirmed the underlying concept, as well he should,
> because he believes in it.
>
> Most people believe in justice. It is built in. It is part of their moral intuition,
> the image of God in man that is being expressed. They clamor for justice.
> There is a place for mercy, and pardon. We both agree. From God's
> perspective, if you have committed any moral crimes, then you are going to
> be punished for them. You'll only receive God's punishment if you are guilty
> of something. Are you guilty of anything? What is so controversial about that?
> Don't want to be punished? God has a means for a pardon. That is the whole
> point of our conversation. I don't want to be punished either. I want to
> experience a pardon.
>
> See how that works? That's part of the tactical elements of communicating
> the knowledge truthfully.

The present world as we know it has become hell for many so that many
should see our LORD as Who HE is:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life..." -- LORD Jesus Christ

Amen ! Laus Deo ! ! ! Marana tha ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Yes, HE chose to come down from heaven to suffer terribly and die
horribly on the cross here in hell in order to save us from hell. HE
is the way out of this place where millions of children are slain
every year along with other unspeakable atrocities. Many thanks, much
praise, and all the glory to GOD for HIS rising up on that fantastic
third day so that HIS hand leads us out of hell:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Christ.asp

May all those reading this wisely choose to reach for HIS hand which
HE has extended to rescue us from this accursed world which is hell:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay

May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety, or panic so that we can love our
neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a whole lot more, dear
brother Noah whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love

No but Andrew B. Chung is.

On Feb 4, 10:10 am, God's rabid retreat dog wrote:

> brother noah wrote:

> > Am I Going to Hell?

No, Noah. It doesn't exist.

Earthquack is sometimes accidentally right. Truth can be simple
sometimes.

"Harry" <Harry@Home.com> wrote in message news:45c5bfe3$1_1@x-privat.org...
> No but Andrew B. Chung is.
>
The let us pray for him.


--
There's no hurry?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrmDWn6awMA
"The best way to drive out the devil, if he will not yield
to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and flout him, for he
cannot bear scorn."
Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once.
http://john-14-6.com/john-14-6.pdf
My Christian Bible Study Collection - http://Bibleweb.Info/

brother e wrote:
> convicted neighbor "Harry" <Harry@Home.com> wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >>
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...4dce2b1369080?
> >
> > No but Andrew B. Chung is.
> >
> Then let us pray for him.
>
> There's no hurry?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrmDWn6awMA
>
> "The best way to drive out the devil, if he will not yield
> to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and flout him, for he
> cannot bear scorn."
>
> Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once.
> http://john-14-6.com/john-14-6.pdf
> My Christian Bible Study Collection - http://Bibleweb.Info/

Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for all prayers on
my behalf made in Jesus' most precious and holy name.

Laus Deo !

Please continue to pray for our dear friends and neighbors who have
been convicted by the Holy Spirit:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts

May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety, or panic so that we can love our
neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ tremendously more, dear
brother whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love

neighbor Velvet Elvis wrote:
>brother "e" <info@bibleweb.info> wrote:
> >neighbor "Velvet Elvis" <VelvetElvis@BennyHinn.com> wrote:
> >> brother "e" <info@bibleweb.info> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hell Does Exist !!!!!!!
> >>
> >> Where is it, exactly?
> >
> > Listen to or watch the material, for some speculation.
> >
> > http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0001.html
>
> I don't want to read your voluminous bullshit. Have you never heard of
> brevity? Just answer the question. 3 sentences should do it.

It is here on earth in this accursed world today.

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him
was Death, and Hell followed with him." -- Apostle John describing his
vision of what was the future for him and the here and now for us.
(Revelation 6:8)

Here's the way to escape them:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay

May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety, or panic so that we can love our
neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a whole lot more, dear
neighbor whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love

"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love13@

Yes chunkers, you are indeed going to hell.

You and all the others who violate yahweh's commandment not to worship false
gods like jebus and worship idols.

"Harry" <Harry@Home.com> wrote in message news:45c5bfe3$1_1@x-privat.org...
> No but Andrew B. Chung is.

Is he related to Johnny B. Goode?

On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:40:11 GMT, "KG" <mrjebus@goddamit.com> wrote:

>
>"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love13@
>
>Yes chunkers, you are indeed going to hell.
>
>You and all the others who violate yahweh's commandment not to worship false
>gods like jebus and worship idols.
>
>

He has already created Hell in his own sick mind and lives in it
constantly.

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~

DO YOU KNOW THE NUMBER OF TROOPS IN BUSH'S 21,000 SURGE WILL ACTUALLY
TOTAL BETWEEN 35,000 AND 48,000 BECAUSE OF NECESSARY SUPPORT STAFF?

Americans killed in Iraq as of Februar 02, 2007 is 3097. United Kingdom = 130 Other = 123.
Non-Mortal American casualties 47,657 as of January 10, 2007.
Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most by so-called insurgents.

As of February 04, 2007 it has been 1374 days since Bush while standing in front of the banner
which was sent to the ship by the White House that said, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" declared,
"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." IOW "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED."

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis

"GrandpaChuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
newsfmcs2plmv70vael4ej0pguhbki87l45r4@4ax.com...
: On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:40:11 GMT, "KG" <mrjebus@goddamit.com> wrote:
:
: >
: >"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love13@
: >
: >Yes chunkers, you are indeed going to hell.
: >
: >You and all the others who violate yahweh's commandment not to worship
false
: >gods like jebus and worship idols.
: >
: >
:
: He has already created Hell in his own sick mind and lives in it
: constantly.
:
: Grandpa Chuck
: -ô¿ô-
: ~
:
: DO YOU KNOW THE NUMBER OF TROOPS IN BUSH'S 21,000 SURGE WILL ACTUALLY
: TOTAL BETWEEN 35,000 AND 48,000 BECAUSE OF NECESSARY SUPPORT STAFF?
:


http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Supportthetroops/

On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:40:11 +0000, KG wrote:

>
> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love13@
>
> Yes chunkers, you are indeed going to hell.

Too late, he's already there...

--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini

On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 22:32:13 GMT, "DesertHare"
<cactusjuice@frontward.net.invalid> wrote:

>"GrandpaChuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>newsfmcs2plmv70vael4ej0pguhbki87l45r4@4ax.com.. .
>: On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:40:11 GMT, "KG" <mrjebus@goddamit.com> wrote:
>:
>: >
>: >"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love13@
>: >
>: >Yes chunkers, you are indeed going to hell.
>: >
>: >You and all the others who violate yahweh's commandment not to worship
>false
>: >gods like jebus and worship idols.
>: >
>: >
>:
>: He has already created Hell in his own sick mind and lives in it
>: constantly.
>:
>: Grandpa Chuck
>: -ô¿ô-
>: ~
>:
>: DO YOU KNOW THE NUMBER OF TROOPS IN BUSH'S 21,000 SURGE WILL ACTUALLY
>: TOTAL BETWEEN 35,000 AND 48,000 BECAUSE OF NECESSARY SUPPORT STAFF?
>:
>
>
>http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Supportthetroops/
>

In my opinion attacks on Bush sure as hell are not attacks on our
troops. I would like to see the Dems and Repugs that disagree with him
not only go after Bush & Cheney and end his war, but also impeach and
try them both for high treason.

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~

DO YOU KNOW THE NUMBER OF TROOPS IN BUSH'S 21,000 SURGE WILL ACTUALLY
TOTAL BETWEEN 35,000 AND 48,000 BECAUSE OF NECESSARY SUPPORT STAFF?

Americans killed in Iraq as of Februar 02, 2007 is 3097. United Kingdom = 130 Other = 123.
Non-Mortal American casualties 47,657 as of January 10, 2007.
Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most by so-called insurgents.

As of February 04, 2007 it has been 1374 days since Bush while standing in front of the banner
which was sent to the ship by the White House that said, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" declared,
"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." IOW "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED."

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis

"GrandpaChuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
news:129ds2pbougjrqpfr9re4khpl73er2c42e@4ax.com...
: On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 22:32:13 GMT, "DesertHare"
: <cactusjuice@frontward.net.invalid> wrote:
:
: >"GrandpaChuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
: >newsfmcs2plmv70vael4ej0pguhbki87l45r4@4ax.com.. .
: >: On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:40:11 GMT, "KG" <mrjebus@goddamit.com> wrote:
: >:
: >: >
: >: >"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love13@
: >: >
: >: >Yes chunkers, you are indeed going to hell.
: >: >
: >: >You and all the others who violate yahweh's commandment not to worship
: >false
: >: >gods like jebus and worship idols.
: >: >
: >: >
: >:
: >: He has already created Hell in his own sick mind and lives in it
: >: constantly.
: >:
: >: Grandpa Chuck
: >: -ô¿ô-
: >: ~
: >:
: >: DO YOU KNOW THE NUMBER OF TROOPS IN BUSH'S 21,000 SURGE WILL ACTUALLY
: >: TOTAL BETWEEN 35,000 AND 48,000 BECAUSE OF NECESSARY SUPPORT STAFF?
: >:
: >
: >
: >http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Supportthetroops/
: >
:
: In my opinion attacks on Bush sure as hell are not attacks on our
: troops. I would like to see the Dems and Repugs that disagree with him
: not only go after Bush & Cheney and end his war, but also impeach and
: try them both for high treason.

It needed to be done IMO. Democraps don't have what it takes to pull the
trigger. War is ugly and always will be.

I think McCain said it best and I'll quote;
"I don't think it's appropriate to say that you disapprove of a mission and
you don't want to fund it and you don't want it to go, but yet you don't
take the action necessary to prevent it," said McCain, top Republican on the
Senate Armed Services Committee and a 2008 presidential candidate from
Arizona.



http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Supportthetroops/


: Grandpa Chuck
: -ô¿ô-
: ~
:
: DO YOU KNOW THE NUMBER OF TROOPS IN BUSH'S 21,000 SURGE WILL ACTUALLY
: TOTAL BETWEEN 35,000 AND 48,000 BECAUSE OF NECESSARY SUPPORT STAFF?
:
: Americans killed in Iraq as of Februar 02, 2007 is 3097. United Kingdom =
130 Other = 123.
: Non-Mortal American casualties 47,657 as of January 10, 2007.
: Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most by so-called
insurgents.
:
: As of February 04, 2007 it has been 1374 days since Bush while standing
in front of the banner
: which was sent to the ship by the White House that said, "MISSION
ACCOMPLISHED" declared,
: "In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."
IOW "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED."
:
: When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and
carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis

On Feb 5, 12:43 am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <g...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:40:11 +0000, KG wrote:
>
> > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love13@
>
> > Yes chunkers, you are indeed going to hell.
>
> Too late, he's already there...
>
> --
> Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
> EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
> because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
> - Mussolini

They cry in the dark so you can't see their tears,
They hide in the light so you can't see their fears,
Forgive and forget, all the while,
Love and pain,
Become one and the same in the eyes of a wounded child.

Because Hell, Hell is for children,
And you know that their little lives can become such a mess.
Hell, Hell is for children.
And you shouldn't have to pay for your love,
With your bones and your flesh.

It's all so confusing,
This brutal abusing,
They blacken your eyes and
Then 'pologize.

Be Daddy's good girl and
And don't tell Mommy a thing,
Be a good little boy and you'll get a new toy,
Tell Grandma you fell off the swing.

Because Hell, Hell is for children
And you know that their little lives can become such a mess.
Hell, Hell is for Children
And you shouldn't have to pay for your love,
With your bones and your flesh.

No, Hell is for children
Hell, Hell is for Hell
Hell is for Hell
Hell is for children.

On Feb 4, 9:18 pm, "JJFlash" <JJFl...@itsa.gas> wrote:
> "Harry" <H...@Home.com> wrote in messagenews:45c5bfe3$1_1@x-privat.org...
> > No but Andrew B. Chung is.
>
> Is he related to Johnny B. Goode?

No, Earthquack B Badde.

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> brother noah wrote:
>> Am I Going to Hell?
>>
>
You are in hell now, how do you like it?

"Snap Whipcrack.............." <snapw@aol.com> wrote in news:IAHxh.940
$da1.496@trndny03:

> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>> brother noah wrote:
>>> Am I Going to Hell?

> You are in hell now, how do you like it?

I have checked our records and am pleased to tell you Brother Andrew has
fallen behind with his tithe payments, so he will be going to hell.

That's a relief. Heaven could hardly be heaven with him in it.

--
Rev. Dr. Richard Dick Foot, BSc., DD, FFD
Chief Executive Pastor
Broomleigh Group of True Christian® Baptist Churches
http://www.church.broomleigh.de/