Re: OT/ Religion

Sorry, hit the wrong button. Lets look at this again.

"Brian O" <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote in message news:...
>
> "Evelyn Ruut" <evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:45ff0fd0$0$27061$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> > "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
> > news:322uv2tni1fotqn0vlg4nn5q51fn67887s@4ax.com...
> > > On 19 Mar 2007 19:48:11 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>Brian O <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> "DonnaB shallotpeel" <shallotpeel@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > >>> news0urv2llrhl58nmnbpda27b4d60q6avgfe@4ax.com...
> > >>>> In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 18 Mar 2007 08:19:59 -0600 in Msg.#
> > >>>> <etje060k1g@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Brian O"
<briano1812@lispwest.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> > Have you ever read where Jesus taught anyone to murder?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The words attributed to Jesus are not the only words in the Bible.
> For
> > >>>> example, Jesus never said one word about homosexuality in any form.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So, now, do you wish to go by Jesus's words only?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> DonnaB
> > >>
> > >>> you have to consider the context of the whole Bible. And the Bible
> does
> > >>> say
> > >>> plenty about the sin of homosexuality.
> > >>> B
> > >>
> > >>Mine is the King James Bible, which doesn't. Which version are you
> > >>using, and what does it say?
> > >
> > > Even if Brian happened to be right, is it not up to his god to pass
> > > judgment on sinners rather than people like Brian? I seem to remember
> > > something about, "Let thou who art without sin, cast the first stone."
> > > --
> > >
> > > Grandpa Chuck
> > > -ô¿ô-
> > > ~
> >
> >
> > Fundamentalist christians conveniently trot out the old testament in
such
> > cases. There was something said about it being not so nice for men to
> lay
> > down with men as if they were a woman.
>
> Not so nice?!
> Here Ev, is what it says:
>
> Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
> both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to
> death; their blood shall be upon them.
>
> Not so nice?! You say that when God says its an abomination to Him that
its
> "not so nice"?? LOL
>
> > It is NOT one of the commandments,
>
> If you will look at the reference I just gave you. It came from
Leviticus,
> which is all about the law that God gave to the Isrealites. It IS a
command
> of God.
>
> > and if they understood the concept of a "new testament in christ" in the
> > first place they would be following the "he who is without sin should
cast
> > the first stone" idea.
>
So Paul didnt understand the "new testament in christ" as you put it?


Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts
of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even
their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman,
burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is
unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which
was meet.

I think Paul understood perfectly what God meant.

>
> > But that would be too difficult to ask them to do. Instead they need to
> > hate someone. Homosexuals are just an easy and convenient target for
> that
> > hatred.

It has nothing to do with hatred Ev. Its about right and wrong.

It is WRONG to pick on them that way. There is very good
> > evidence that homosexuality is hard wired in the brain from early
> childhood
> > on. It isn't just some choice or perverted behavior, it is what they
> are,
> > and as long as they don't hurt others, nobody should hurt them.

You may be right about it being instilled from childhood. Statistics show
that MOST homosexual males dont have a father figure in their lives. As far
as it being born into them as some claim, there is no verifiable evidence of
any kind for that.
As far as them not hurting anyone... everything someone does affects someone
else. Their actions and demands for "marriage" water down what marriage is,
a dedication to a mate of the opposite ses, as God intended, before
witnesses, God, and in legality. Homosexuals have the right to marry, just
not to the same gender, because thats not what marriage is. Homosexuality
is based on sexual desire, not love, not monogomy, just the same as
heterosexual lust is. Love between two people doesnt need to involve sex.
If it were TRUE love, sex wouldnt be that important. I can love a man as a
man, and a woman as a woman, and not have lust for them and feel the need to
sleep with them. Homosexuality is not about that, its about inordinate
desire for the same sex. If it were abut love as many homosexuals claim,
they wouldnt need to engage in the behavior they do.
When we cave into the notion that what they do is natural and ok, then we
open the door for anyone to do anything they wish, because they believe it
to be ok. And when that happens, we dont have a leg to stand on to point to
what is right and wrong, or to have any laws that try to dictate right and
wrong. We have to have a moral code, we have to have a moral standard. If
you have laws and cant justify them with a moral value from somewhere, then
they are of no value. As Ive said before, its not about hate. There are
ministries just waiting with open arms to help any homosexual that wants to
be free from that lifestyle. I dare you to find a hateful bone in those
ministries bodies.
The only real hate Ive seen for for those that stand up for whats right and
wrong.

> >
> > --
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Evelyn
> >
B

"Brian O" <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote in message
news:etot15019u7@enews4.newsguy.com...
> Sorry, hit the wrong button. Lets look at this again.
>
> "Brian O" <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote in message news:...
>>
>> "Evelyn Ruut" <evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:45ff0fd0$0$27061$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> > "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>> > news:322uv2tni1fotqn0vlg4nn5q51fn67887s@4ax.com...
>> > > On 19 Mar 2007 19:48:11 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>Brian O <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> "DonnaB shallotpeel" <shallotpeel@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> > >>> news0urv2llrhl58nmnbpda27b4d60q6avgfe@4ax.com...
>> > >>>> In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 18 Mar 2007 08:19:59 -0600 in
>> > >>>> Msg.#
>> > >>>> <etje060k1g@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Brian O"
> <briano1812@lispwest.com>
>> > >>> wrote:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> > Have you ever read where Jesus taught anyone to murder?
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> The words attributed to Jesus are not the only words in the Bible.
>> For
>> > >>>> example, Jesus never said one word about homosexuality in any
>> > >>>> form.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> So, now, do you wish to go by Jesus's words only?
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> --
>> > >>>> DonnaB
>> > >>
>> > >>> you have to consider the context of the whole Bible. And the Bible
>> does
>> > >>> say
>> > >>> plenty about the sin of homosexuality.
>> > >>> B
>> > >>
>> > >>Mine is the King James Bible, which doesn't. Which version are you
>> > >>using, and what does it say?
>> > >
>> > > Even if Brian happened to be right, is it not up to his god to pass
>> > > judgment on sinners rather than people like Brian? I seem to remember
>> > > something about, "Let thou who art without sin, cast the first
>> > > stone."
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > > Grandpa Chuck
>> > > -ô¿ô-
>> > > ~
>> >
>> >
>> > Fundamentalist christians conveniently trot out the old testament in
> such
>> > cases. There was something said about it being not so nice for men to
>> lay
>> > down with men as if they were a woman.
>>
>> Not so nice?!
>> Here Ev, is what it says:
>>
>> Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
>> both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to
>> death; their blood shall be upon them.
>>
>> Not so nice?! You say that when God says its an abomination to Him that
> its
>> "not so nice"?? LOL
>>
>> > It is NOT one of the commandments,
>>
>> If you will look at the reference I just gave you. It came from
> Leviticus,
>> which is all about the law that God gave to the Isrealites. It IS a
> command
>> of God.
>>
>> > and if they understood the concept of a "new testament in christ" in
>> > the
>> > first place they would be following the "he who is without sin should
> cast
>> > the first stone" idea.
>>
> So Paul didnt understand the "new testament in christ" as you put it?
>
>
> Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the
> lusts
> of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
>
> Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even
> their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
> Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the
> woman,
> burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which
> is
> unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which
> was meet.
>
> I think Paul understood perfectly what God meant.
>
>>
>> > But that would be too difficult to ask them to do. Instead they need
>> > to
>> > hate someone. Homosexuals are just an easy and convenient target for
>> that
>> > hatred.
>
> It has nothing to do with hatred Ev. Its about right and wrong.
>
> It is WRONG to pick on them that way. There is very good
>> > evidence that homosexuality is hard wired in the brain from early
>> childhood
>> > on. It isn't just some choice or perverted behavior, it is what they
>> are,
>> > and as long as they don't hurt others, nobody should hurt them.
>
> You may be right about it being instilled from childhood. Statistics show
> that MOST homosexual males dont have a father figure in their lives. As
> far
> as it being born into them as some claim, there is no verifiable evidence
> of
> any kind for that.
> As far as them not hurting anyone... everything someone does affects
> someone
> else. Their actions and demands for "marriage" water down what marriage
> is,
> a dedication to a mate of the opposite ses, as God intended, before
> witnesses, God, and in legality. Homosexuals have the right to marry,
> just
> not to the same gender, because thats not what marriage is. Homosexuality
> is based on sexual desire, not love, not monogomy, just the same as
> heterosexual lust is. Love between two people doesnt need to involve sex.
> If it were TRUE love, sex wouldnt be that important. I can love a man as
> a
> man, and a woman as a woman, and not have lust for them and feel the need
> to
> sleep with them. Homosexuality is not about that, its about inordinate
> desire for the same sex. If it were abut love as many homosexuals claim,
> they wouldnt need to engage in the behavior they do.
> When we cave into the notion that what they do is natural and ok, then we
> open the door for anyone to do anything they wish, because they believe it
> to be ok. And when that happens, we dont have a leg to stand on to point
> to
> what is right and wrong, or to have any laws that try to dictate right and
> wrong. We have to have a moral code, we have to have a moral standard. If
> you have laws and cant justify them with a moral value from somewhere,
> then
> they are of no value. As Ive said before, its not about hate. There are
> ministries just waiting with open arms to help any homosexual that wants
> to
> be free from that lifestyle. I dare you to find a hateful bone in those
> ministries bodies.
> The only real hate Ive seen for for those that stand up for whats right
> and
> wrong.



What's right is to respect other peoples religious beliefs.
What's wrong is to jam your imaginary friends down other peoples throats.

--
Best Regards,

Evelyn

In alt.support.diabetes on Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:28:52 -0400 in Msg.#
<460043ff$0$18858$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, "Evelyn Ruut"
<evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
> >> both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to
> >> death; their blood shall be upon them.

And, we know how much of the Levitican code and Levitican Priestly codes are
followed by Christians today.

> > I think Paul understood perfectly what God meant.

I think that the various individuals that are referred to as Paul when
speaking of the writings of the New Testament that had nothing at all to do
with the words of Jesus or even involved things happening while Jesus was
alive understood perfectly what he Paul wanted to say to people of the time,
and why. Among those was most assuredly a lack of concern with the Christian
connection to its roots in Judaism.

> > It has nothing to do with hatred Ev. Its about right and wrong.
> >
> > It is WRONG to pick on them that way. There is very good
> >> > evidence that homosexuality is hard wired in the brain from early
> >> childhood
> >> > on. It isn't just some choice or perverted behavior, it is what they
> >> are,
> >> > and as long as they don't hurt others, nobody should hurt them.
> >
> > You may be right about it being instilled from childhood.

That's not what she said, though.

> > Statistics show
> > that MOST homosexual males dont have a father figure in their lives.

And, yet I know so many gay people of both gender who have had both parents
in their lives. Of course, people who refuse to believe the reality of life
for gays today aren't above using specious cites & statistics.

> > As far as them not hurting anyone... everything someone does affects
> > someone
> > else. Their actions and demands for "marriage" water down what marriage
> > is,
> > a dedication to a mate of the opposite ses, as God intended, before
> > witnesses, God, and in legality.

Not at all. Gays are & have been living in monogamous pair-bonds for many
many many years now. All that is missing is the legal sanction in most
states, as we wait for our institutions to catch up with our reality. Gays
are married to their gay partners. Gays do marry each other. No harm has
come to straight marriage & no harm can come to straight marriage from
people doing right & making full citizens of gays.

> > Homosexuality
> > is based on sexual desire, not love, not monogomy, just the same as
> > heterosexual lust is.

You are so wrong. Sexual desire is only one of the many natural aspects of
being gay, just as sexual desire is only one of the many natural aspects of
being straight.

> > Love between two people doesnt need to involve sex.
> > If it were TRUE love, sex wouldnt be that important. I can love a man as
> > a
> > man, and a woman as a woman, and not have lust for them and feel the need
> > to
> > sleep with them.

You are being disingenuous about different kinds of love. Gays can love
friends & non-partner family members of the same & opposite gender, just as
straights can.

You keep trying to create specious differences which do not exist.

> > Homosexuality is not about that, its about inordinate
> > desire for the same sex.

No, not inordinate, just natural.

> > If it were abut love as many homosexuals claim,
> > they wouldnt need to engage in the behavior they do.

Because, of course, we know that it is not natural & life-affirming for
God's creatures to fulfill themselves in all ways in monogamous
relationships, according to their kind. LOL

> > When we cave into the notion that what they do is natural and ok, then we
> > open the door for anyone to do anything they wish, because they believe it
> > to be ok.

Wrong. We have morality. We know that for consenting adults to live with
parity allows everyone to have rights that extends just as far as, but no
further than, where they would violate someone else's rights. Voila. The
right thing to do.

> > ... We have to have a moral code, we have to have a moral standard.

And, we do & it is one that includes many different sets of beliefs & is not
just based on a certain portion of our society's beliefs.

> > ... There are
> > ministries just waiting with open arms to help any homosexual that wants
> > to be free from that lifestyle.

And, they are some of the most hateful, as at their very core they try to
make people hate themselves.

> What's right is to respect other peoples religious beliefs.
> What's wrong is to jam your imaginary friends down other peoples throats.

There, that's a moral code that works for a country like the US.

--
DonnaB
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg.
...................09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
...................12-20-06 hbA1C 5.2

"A man that does not know how to be angry does not know how to be good.
Now and then a man should be shaken to the core with indignation over things
evil." - Henry Ward Beecher

"Evelyn Ruut" <evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:460043ff$0$18858$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Brian O" <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote in message
> news:etot15019u7@enews4.newsguy.com...
> > Sorry, hit the wrong button. Lets look at this again.
> >
> > "Brian O" <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote in message news:...
> >>
> >> "Evelyn Ruut" <evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:45ff0fd0$0$27061$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >> > "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
> >> > news:322uv2tni1fotqn0vlg4nn5q51fn67887s@4ax.com...
> >> > > On 19 Mar 2007 19:48:11 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >>Brian O <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> "DonnaB shallotpeel" <shallotpeel@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> > >>> news0urv2llrhl58nmnbpda27b4d60q6avgfe@4ax.com...
> >> > >>>> In alt.support.diabetes on Sun, 18 Mar 2007 08:19:59 -0600 in
> >> > >>>> Msg.#
> >> > >>>> <etje060k1g@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Brian O"
> > <briano1812@lispwest.com>
> >> > >>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> > Have you ever read where Jesus taught anyone to murder?
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> The words attributed to Jesus are not the only words in the
Bible.
> >> For
> >> > >>>> example, Jesus never said one word about homosexuality in any
> >> > >>>> form.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> So, now, do you wish to go by Jesus's words only?
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> --
> >> > >>>> DonnaB
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> you have to consider the context of the whole Bible. And the
Bible
> >> does
> >> > >>> say
> >> > >>> plenty about the sin of homosexuality.
> >> > >>> B
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Mine is the King James Bible, which doesn't. Which version are you
> >> > >>using, and what does it say?
> >> > >
> >> > > Even if Brian happened to be right, is it not up to his god to pass
> >> > > judgment on sinners rather than people like Brian? I seem to
remember
> >> > > something about, "Let thou who art without sin, cast the first
> >> > > stone."
> >> > > --
> >> > >
> >> > > Grandpa Chuck
> >> > > -ô¿ô-
> >> > > ~
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Fundamentalist christians conveniently trot out the old testament in
> > such
> >> > cases. There was something said about it being not so nice for men
to
> >> lay
> >> > down with men as if they were a woman.
> >>
> >> Not so nice?!
> >> Here Ev, is what it says:
> >>
> >> Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a
woman,
> >> both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to
> >> death; their blood shall be upon them.
> >>
> >> Not so nice?! You say that when God says its an abomination to Him that
> > its
> >> "not so nice"?? LOL
> >>
> >> > It is NOT one of the commandments,
> >>
> >> If you will look at the reference I just gave you. It came from
> > Leviticus,
> >> which is all about the law that God gave to the Isrealites. It IS a
> > command
> >> of God.
> >>
> >> > and if they understood the concept of a "new testament in christ" in
> >> > the
> >> > first place they would be following the "he who is without sin should
> > cast
> >> > the first stone" idea.
> >>
> > So Paul didnt understand the "new testament in christ" as you put it?
> >
> >
> > Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the
> > lusts
> > of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
> >
> > Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for
even
> > their women did change the natural use into that which is against
nature:
> > Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the
> > woman,
> > burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which
> > is
> > unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error
which
> > was meet.
> >
> > I think Paul understood perfectly what God meant.
> >
> >>
> >> > But that would be too difficult to ask them to do. Instead they need
> >> > to
> >> > hate someone. Homosexuals are just an easy and convenient target
for
> >> that
> >> > hatred.
> >
> > It has nothing to do with hatred Ev. Its about right and wrong.
> >
> > It is WRONG to pick on them that way. There is very good
> >> > evidence that homosexuality is hard wired in the brain from early
> >> childhood
> >> > on. It isn't just some choice or perverted behavior, it is what
they
> >> are,
> >> > and as long as they don't hurt others, nobody should hurt them.
> >
> > You may be right about it being instilled from childhood. Statistics
show
> > that MOST homosexual males dont have a father figure in their lives. As
> > far
> > as it being born into them as some claim, there is no verifiable
evidence
> > of
> > any kind for that.
> > As far as them not hurting anyone... everything someone does affects
> > someone
> > else. Their actions and demands for "marriage" water down what marriage
> > is,
> > a dedication to a mate of the opposite ses, as God intended, before
> > witnesses, God, and in legality. Homosexuals have the right to marry,
> > just
> > not to the same gender, because thats not what marriage is.
Homosexuality
> > is based on sexual desire, not love, not monogomy, just the same as
> > heterosexual lust is. Love between two people doesnt need to involve
sex.
> > If it were TRUE love, sex wouldnt be that important. I can love a man
as
> > a
> > man, and a woman as a woman, and not have lust for them and feel the
need
> > to
> > sleep with them. Homosexuality is not about that, its about inordinate
> > desire for the same sex. If it were abut love as many homosexuals
claim,
> > they wouldnt need to engage in the behavior they do.
> > When we cave into the notion that what they do is natural and ok, then
we
> > open the door for anyone to do anything they wish, because they believe
it
> > to be ok. And when that happens, we dont have a leg to stand on to point
> > to
> > what is right and wrong, or to have any laws that try to dictate right
and
> > wrong. We have to have a moral code, we have to have a moral standard.
If
> > you have laws and cant justify them with a moral value from somewhere,
> > then
> > they are of no value. As Ive said before, its not about hate. There are
> > ministries just waiting with open arms to help any homosexual that wants
> > to
> > be free from that lifestyle. I dare you to find a hateful bone in those
> > ministries bodies.
> > The only real hate Ive seen for for those that stand up for whats right
> > and
> > wrong.
>
>
>
> What's right is to respect other peoples religious beliefs.
> What's wrong is to jam your imaginary friends down other peoples throats.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Evelyn
Yeah, whatever Evelyn,
B

"DonnaB shallotpeel" <shallotpeel@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:snh003p2m808rnirp5grspds14e3fshvs6@4ax.com...
> In alt.support.diabetes on Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:28:52 -0400 in Msg.#
> <460043ff$0$18858$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, "Evelyn Ruut"
> <evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a
woman,
> > >> both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put
to
> > >> death; their blood shall be upon them.
>
> And, we know how much of the Levitican code and Levitican Priestly codes
are
> followed by Christians today.

Depends on wether or not its ritual law or moral law.

>
> > > I think Paul understood perfectly what God meant.
>
> I think that the various individuals that are referred to as Paul when
> speaking of the writings of the New Testament that had nothing at all to
do
> with the words of Jesus or even involved things happening while Jesus was
> alive understood perfectly what he Paul wanted to say to people of the
time,
> and why. Among those was most assuredly a lack of concern with the
Christian
> connection to its roots in Judaism.

No actually it was just the opposite. Paul was clear that following the
Jewish law was not what Christians were to do.
And the large majority agree that Paul wrote most of the OT. Check out "The
Books and The Parchments" by F F Bruce.

>
> > > It has nothing to do with hatred Ev. Its about right and wrong.
> > >
> > > It is WRONG to pick on them that way. There is very good
> > >> > evidence that homosexuality is hard wired in the brain from early
> > >> childhood
> > >> > on. It isn't just some choice or perverted behavior, it is what
they
> > >> are,
> > >> > and as long as they don't hurt others, nobody should hurt them.
> > >
> > > You may be right about it being instilled from childhood.
>
> That's not what she said, though.

Actually she did. She said it was hardwired from childhood. Not from birth.

>
> > > Statistics show
> > > that MOST homosexual males dont have a father figure in their lives.
>
> And, yet I know so many gay people of both gender who have had both
parents
> in their lives. Of course, people who refuse to believe the reality of
life
> for gays today aren't above using specious cites & statistics.

Haveing both parents in a home doesnt mean they "had" two parents. If the
father was emotionally absent, its as bad as being physically absent.

>
> > > As far as them not hurting anyone... everything someone does affects
> > > someone
> > > else. Their actions and demands for "marriage" water down what
marriage
> > > is,
> > > a dedication to a mate of the opposite ses, as God intended, before
> > > witnesses, God, and in legality.
>
> Not at all. Gays are & have been living in monogamous pair-bonds for many
> many many years now. All that is missing is the legal sanction in most
> states, as we wait for our institutions to catch up with our reality. Gays
> are married to their gay partners. Gays do marry each other. No harm has
> come to straight marriage & no harm can come to straight marriage from
> people doing right & making full citizens of gays.

Its exactly the legality that is what makes it dangerous. If it becomes
legally accepted, then social acceptance will be crammed down peoples
throats in the schools to start with, not to mention that its ALREADY being
crammed down out throats in the business sector. That WILL affect the social
fabric of our nation, not to mention the moral fabric. Plenty of harm to be
done.

>
> > > Homosexuality
> > > is based on sexual desire, not love, not monogomy, just the same as
> > > heterosexual lust is.

>
> You are so wrong. Sexual desire is only one of the many natural aspects of
> being gay, just as sexual desire is only one of the many natural aspects
of
> being straight.


>
> > > Love between two people doesnt need to involve sex.
> > > If it were TRUE love, sex wouldnt be that important. I can love a man
as
> > > a
> > > man, and a woman as a woman, and not have lust for them and feel the
need
> > > to
> > > sleep with them.
>
> You are being disingenuous about different kinds of love. Gays can love
> friends & non-partner family members of the same & opposite gender, just
as
> straights can.
>
> You keep trying to create specious differences which do not exist.
>
> > > Homosexuality is not about that, its about inordinate
> > > desire for the same sex.
>
> No, not inordinate, just natural.
>
> > > If it were abut love as many homosexuals claim,
> > > they wouldnt need to engage in the behavior they do.
>
> Because, of course, we know that it is not natural & life-affirming for
> God's creatures to fulfill themselves in all ways in monogamous
> relationships, according to their kind. LOL
>
> > > When we cave into the notion that what they do is natural and ok, then
we
> > > open the door for anyone to do anything they wish, because they
believe it
> > > to be ok.
>
> Wrong. We have morality. We know that for consenting adults to live with
> parity allows everyone to have rights that extends just as far as, but no
> further than, where they would violate someone else's rights. Voila. The
> right thing to do.
>
> > > ... We have to have a moral code, we have to have a moral standard.
>
> And, we do & it is one that includes many different sets of beliefs & is
not
> just based on a certain portion of our society's beliefs.
>
> > > ... There are
> > > ministries just waiting with open arms to help any homosexual that
wants
> > > to be free from that lifestyle.
>
> And, they are some of the most hateful, as at their very core they try to
> make people hate themselves.
>
> > What's right is to respect other peoples religious beliefs.
> > What's wrong is to jam your imaginary friends down other peoples
throats.
>
> There, that's a moral code that works for a country like the US.
>
> --
> DonnaB
> 06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg.
> ..................09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
> ..................12-20-06 hbA1C 5.2
>
> "A man that does not know how to be angry does not know how to be good.
> Now and then a man should be shaken to the core with indignation over
things
> evil." - Henry Ward Beecher

"DonnaB shallotpeel" <shallotpeel@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:snh003p2m808rnirp5grspds14e3fshvs6@4ax.com...
> In alt.support.diabetes on Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:28:52 -0400 in Msg.#
> <460043ff$0$18858$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, "Evelyn Ruut"
> <evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a
woman,
> > >> both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put
to
> > >> death; their blood shall be upon them.
>
> And, we know how much of the Levitican code and Levitican Priestly codes
are
> followed by Christians today.
>
> > > I think Paul understood perfectly what God meant.
>
> I think that the various individuals that are referred to as Paul when
> speaking of the writings of the New Testament that had nothing at all to
do
> with the words of Jesus or even involved things happening while Jesus was
> alive understood perfectly what he Paul wanted to say to people of the
time,
> and why. Among those was most assuredly a lack of concern with the
Christian
> connection to its roots in Judaism.
>
> > > It has nothing to do with hatred Ev. Its about right and wrong.
> > >
> > > It is WRONG to pick on them that way. There is very good
> > >> > evidence that homosexuality is hard wired in the brain from early
> > >> childhood
> > >> > on. It isn't just some choice or perverted behavior, it is what
they
> > >> are,
> > >> > and as long as they don't hurt others, nobody should hurt them.
> > >
> > > You may be right about it being instilled from childhood.
>
> That's not what she said, though.
>
> > > Statistics show
> > > that MOST homosexual males dont have a father figure in their lives.
>
> And, yet I know so many gay people of both gender who have had both
parents
> in their lives. Of course, people who refuse to believe the reality of
life
> for gays today aren't above using specious cites & statistics.
>
> > > As far as them not hurting anyone... everything someone does affects
> > > someone
> > > else. Their actions and demands for "marriage" water down what
marriage
> > > is,
> > > a dedication to a mate of the opposite ses, as God intended, before
> > > witnesses, God, and in legality.
>
> Not at all. Gays are & have been living in monogamous pair-bonds for many
> many many years now. All that is missing is the legal sanction in most
> states, as we wait for our institutions to catch up with our reality. Gays
> are married to their gay partners. Gays do marry each other. No harm has
> come to straight marriage & no harm can come to straight marriage from
> people doing right & making full citizens of gays.
>
> > > Homosexuality
> > > is based on sexual desire, not love, not monogomy, just the same as
> > > heterosexual lust is.
>
> You are so wrong. Sexual desire is only one of the many natural aspects of
> being gay, just as sexual desire is only one of the many natural aspects
of
> being straight.

If Im so wrong, why do they engage in sexual behavior when its not a natural
thing to do? Men were not created for me, nor women for women. Its all
about lust and inordinate desire.


>
> > > Love between two people doesnt need to involve sex.
> > > If it were TRUE love, sex wouldnt be that important. I can love a man
as
> > > a
> > > man, and a woman as a woman, and not have lust for them and feel the
need
> > > to
> > > sleep with them.
>
> You are being disingenuous about different kinds of love. Gays can love
> friends & non-partner family members of the same & opposite gender, just
as
> straights can.
>
> You keep trying to create specious differences which do not exist.

Its obvious they do exist. The attraction they have for each othe sexually
is not natural nor moral. There is a big difference.

>
> > > Homosexuality is not about that, its about inordinate
> > > desire for the same sex.
>
> No, not inordinate, just natural.

There isnt anything natural about it.

>
> > > If it were abut love as many homosexuals claim,
> > > they wouldnt need to engage in the behavior they do.
>
> Because, of course, we know that it is not natural & life-affirming for
> God's creatures to fulfill themselves in all ways in monogamous
> relationships, according to their kind. LOL

So is what you mean here that adultery and fornication is ok also?

>
> > > When we cave into the notion that what they do is natural and ok, then
we
> > > open the door for anyone to do anything they wish, because they
believe it
> > > to be ok.
>
> Wrong. We have morality. We know that for consenting adults to live with
> parity allows everyone to have rights that extends just as far as, but no
> further than, where they would violate someone else's rights. Voila. The
> right thing to do.

Gays already have legal rights the same as everyone else. Benefits are the
same. But marriage is between a man and a woman. That is the moral
standard. Without a moral standard, there is no morality. Consentual sin
doesnt make it any less sinful.
>
> > > ... We have to have a moral code, we have to have a moral standard.
>
> And, we do & it is one that includes many different sets of beliefs & is
not
> just based on a certain portion of our society's beliefs.

No, because if it has to encompass all beliefs, then in actually it cant
encompass any beliefs except what feels good. Then again, you create
anarchy. You cant have it both ways.
>
> > > ... There are
> > > ministries just waiting with open arms to help any homosexual that
wants
> > > to be free from that lifestyle.
>
> And, they are some of the most hateful, as at their very core they try to
> make people hate themselves.

I dont know of ANY Christian ministry that would want a homosexual to hate
himself. We all sin, and need a Savior. Its about repentance and
forgivness, not shame.

>
> > What's right is to respect other peoples religious beliefs.
> > What's wrong is to jam your imaginary friends down other peoples
throats.
>
> There, that's a moral code that works for a country like the US.
>
> --
> DonnaB

Actually, live and let live encompasses no moral code. Laws have to come
from some standard. If you dont have a standard but to let everyone doe any
and everything, then again you have anarchy and no country at all.
B

In alt.support.diabetes on Tue, 20 Mar 2007 22:58:46 -0600 in Msg.#
<etqa7r02c1t@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Brian O" <briano1812@lispwest.com>
wrote:

> "DonnaB shallotpeel" <shallotpeel@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:snh003p2m808rnirp5grspds14e3fshvs6@4ax.com...
> > In alt.support.diabetes on Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:28:52 -0400 in Msg.#
> > <460043ff$0$18858$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, "Evelyn Ruut"
> > <evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >> Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a
> woman,
> > > >> both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put
> to
> > > >> death; their blood shall be upon them.
> >
> > And, we know how much of the Levitican code and Levitican Priestly codes
> are
> > followed by Christians today.
>
> Depends on wether or not its ritual law or moral law.

And, we're only talking about ritual laws here, so that is moot.

> > > > I think Paul understood perfectly what God meant.
> >
> > I think that the various individuals that are referred to as Paul when
> > speaking of the writings of the New Testament that had nothing at all to
> do
> > with the words of Jesus or even involved things happening while Jesus was
> > alive understood perfectly what he Paul wanted to say to people of the
> time,
> > and why. Among those was most assuredly a lack of concern with the
> Christian
> > connection to its roots in Judaism.
>
> No actually it was just the opposite. Paul was clear that following the
> Jewish law was not what Christians were to do.

That's what I said: Paul was unconcerned about Christians remaining
connected to the Jewish roots of the new religion.

> And the large majority agree that Paul wrote most of the OT.

Not surprising that we'd disagree here, too. Learn some timeline. Really.

> > > > It has nothing to do with hatred Ev. Its about right and wrong.
> > > >
> > > > It is WRONG to pick on them that way. There is very good
> > > >> > evidence that homosexuality is hard wired in the brain from early
> > > >> childhood
> > > >> > on. It isn't just some choice or perverted behavior, it is what
> they
> > > >> are,
> > > >> > and as long as they don't hurt others, nobody should hurt them.
> > > >
> > > > You may be right about it being instilled from childhood.
> >
> > That's not what she said, though.
>
> Actually she did. She said it was hardwired from childhood. Not from birth.

She also said, "It isn't just some choice or perverted behavior, it is what
they are, ..." Quotes mean so much more when taken in context.

> > > > Statistics show
> > > > that MOST homosexual males dont have a father figure in their lives.
> >
> > And, yet I know so many gay people of both gender who have had both
> parents
> > in their lives. Of course, people who refuse to believe the reality of
> life
> > for gays today aren't above using specious cites & statistics.
>
> Haveing both parents in a home doesnt mean they "had" two parents. If the
> father was emotionally absent, its as bad as being physically absent.

Not a problem to disagree with you yet again. But, it's also not what I
said. The phrase I used was 'in their lives' - not physically present on or
about the property.

> > Not at all. Gays are & have been living in monogamous pair-bonds for many
> > many many years now. All that is missing is the legal sanction in most
> > states, as we wait for our institutions to catch up with our reality. Gays
> > are married to their gay partners. Gays do marry each other. No harm has
> > come to straight marriage & no harm can come to straight marriage from
> > people doing right & making full citizens of gays.
>
> Its exactly the legality that is what makes it dangerous. If it becomes
> legally accepted, then social acceptance will be crammed down peoples
> throats in the schools to start with, not to mention that its ALREADY being
> crammed down out throats in the business sector. That WILL affect the social
> fabric of our nation, not to mention the moral fabric. Plenty of harm to be
> done.

Social & legal acceptance are what are needed for the right thing to be
done. The danger is to continue to make one class of people second class
citizens.

Please learn to trim. Or if not, then, at the very least delete everything
after you're done.

--
DonnaB
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg.
...................09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
...................12-20-06 hbA1C 5.2

"The UCC properly implied that millions of American Christians are at odds
with the Christian Right … In reality, there are no biblical literalists,
only selective literalists. By abolishing slavery & ordaining women,
millions of Protestants have gone far beyond biblical literalism." - William
Sloane Coffin

In alt.support.diabetes on Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:06:10 -0600 in Msg.#
<etqaln02cfd@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Brian O" <briano1812@lispwest.com>
wrote:

> "DonnaB shallotpeel" <shallotpeel@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:snh003p2m808rnirp5grspds14e3fshvs6@4ax.com...
> > In alt.support.diabetes on Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:28:52 -0400 in Msg.#
> > <460043ff$0$18858$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, "Evelyn Ruut"
> > <evelyn.ruut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >> Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a
> woman,
> > > >> both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put
> to
> > > >> death; their blood shall be upon them.
> >
> > And, we know how much of the Levitican code and Levitican Priestly codes
> are
> > followed by Christians today.
> >
> > > > I think Paul understood perfectly what God meant.
> >
> > I think that the various individuals that are referred to as Paul when
> > speaking of the writings of the New Testament that had nothing at all to
> do
> > with the words of Jesus or even involved things happening while Jesus was
> > alive understood perfectly what he Paul wanted to say to people of the
> time,
> > and why. Among those was most assuredly a lack of concern with the
> Christian
> > connection to its roots in Judaism.
> >
> > > > It has nothing to do with hatred Ev. Its about right and wrong.
> > > >
> > > > It is WRONG to pick on them that way. There is very good
> > > >> > evidence that homosexuality is hard wired in the brain from early
> > > >> childhood
> > > >> > on. It isn't just some choice or perverted behavior, it is what
> they
> > > >> are,
> > > >> > and as long as they don't hurt others, nobody should hurt them.
> > > >
> > > > You may be right about it being instilled from childhood.
> >
> > That's not what she said, though.
> >
> > > > Statistics show
> > > > that MOST homosexual males dont have a father figure in their lives.
> >
> > And, yet I know so many gay people of both gender who have had both
> parents
> > in their lives. Of course, people who refuse to believe the reality of
> life
> > for gays today aren't above using specious cites & statistics.
> >
> > > > As far as them not hurting anyone... everything someone does affects
> > > > someone
> > > > else. Their actions and demands for "marriage" water down what
> marriage
> > > > is,
> > > > a dedication to a mate of the opposite ses, as God intended, before
> > > > witnesses, God, and in legality.
> >
> > Not at all. Gays are & have been living in monogamous pair-bonds for many
> > many many years now. All that is missing is the legal sanction in most
> > states, as we wait for our institutions to catch up with our reality. Gays
> > are married to their gay partners. Gays do marry each other. No harm has
> > come to straight marriage & no harm can come to straight marriage from
> > people doing right & making full citizens of gays.
> >
> > > > Homosexuality
> > > > is based on sexual desire, not love, not monogomy, just the same as
> > > > heterosexual lust is.
> >
> > You are so wrong. Sexual desire is only one of the many natural aspects of
> > being gay, just as sexual desire is only one of the many natural aspects
> of
> > being straight.
>
> If Im so wrong, why do they engage in sexual behavior when its not a natural
> thing to do? Men were not created for me, nor women for women. Its all
> about lust and inordinate desire.

Affectional, romantic, sexual, in other words full relationships between
people of the same gender ARE what is natural for a numerical minority of
the people of the world. It has been as far back as can be told as far as we
know & it not only is true of humans but of most non-human species. It is a
part of God's creation.

But, then, I've basically already said this. See below where it was already
in the prior reply to you.

> > > > Love between two people doesnt need to involve sex.
> > > > If it were TRUE love, sex wouldnt be that important. I can love a man
> as
> > > > a
> > > > man, and a woman as a woman, and not have lust for them and feel the
> need
> > > > to
> > > > sleep with them.
> >
> > You are being disingenuous about different kinds of love. Gays can love
> > friends & non-partner family members of the same & opposite gender, just
> as
> > straights can.
> >
> > You keep trying to create specious differences which do not exist.
>
> Its obvious they do exist. The attraction they have for each othe sexually
> is not natural nor moral. There is a big difference.

The big difference is that for some reason you want it to be unnatural and
immoral despite all evidence to the contrary & without your citing anything
at all to justify why it is either except that your interpretation of the
Bible says so.

> > > > Homosexuality is not about that, its about inordinate
> > > > desire for the same sex.
> >
> > No, not inordinate, just natural.
>
> There isnt anything natural about it.

See above. Gays & straights have much more in common than they have
different.

> > > > If it were abut love as many homosexuals claim,
> > > > they wouldnt need to engage in the behavior they do.
> >
> > Because, of course, we know that it is not natural & life-affirming for
> > God's creatures to fulfill themselves in all ways in monogamous
> > relationships, according to their kind. LOL
>
> So is what you mean here that adultery and fornication is ok also?

How do you get to adulterous from monogamous? Your path from A to B is
getting more & more odd.

> > > > When we cave into the notion that what they do is natural and ok, then
> we
> > > > open the door for anyone to do anything they wish, because they
> believe it
> > > > to be ok.
> >
> > Wrong. We have morality. We know that for consenting adults to live with
> > parity allows everyone to have rights that extends just as far as, but no
> > further than, where they would violate someone else's rights. Voila. The
> > right thing to do.
>
> Gays already have legal rights the same as everyone else. Benefits are the
> same. But marriage is between a man and a woman. That is the moral
> standard. Without a moral standard, there is no morality. Consentual sin
> doesnt make it any less sinful.

And, there you are, once again, back at a theocratic mixing of your
religious beliefs with the law. They are not one & the same. We are a
pluralistic democratic republic, not a theocracy.

> > > > ... We have to have a moral code, we have to have a moral standard.
> >
> > And, we do & it is one that includes many different sets of beliefs & is
> not
> > just based on a certain portion of our society's beliefs.
>
> No, because if it has to encompass all beliefs, then in actually it cant
> encompass any beliefs except what feels good. Then again, you create
> anarchy. You cant have it both ways.

Now you're just being intentionally ridiculous. You absolutely can have the
rule of law without forcing one religion down the throats of all people &
you must know that.

> > > > ... There are
> > > > ministries just waiting with open arms to help any homosexual that
> wants
> > > > to be free from that lifestyle.
> >
> > And, they are some of the most hateful, as at their very core they try to
> > make people hate themselves.
>
> I dont know of ANY Christian ministry that would want a homosexual to hate
> himself. We all sin, and need a Savior. Its about repentance and
> forgivness, not shame.

All of the so-called gay recovery ministries do push self-hatred on gays.

> > > What's right is to respect other peoples religious beliefs.
> > > What's wrong is to jam your imaginary friends down other peoples
> throats.
> >
> > There, that's a moral code that works for a country like the US.
>
> Actually, live and let live encompasses no moral code. Laws have to come
> from some standard. If you dont have a standard but to let everyone doe any
> and everything, then again you have anarchy and no country at all.

We do have the standard that this country does actually have - one where my
rights do not invade yours & yours do not invade mine & each of us has our
own right of individuality moderated by the potential & real rights of
others. It's exceptionally moral & a standard to aspire to.

--
DonnaB
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg.
...................09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
...................12-20-06 hbA1C 5.2

"The public education movement has also been an anti-Christian movement. ...
We can change education in America if you put Christian principles in and
Christian pedagogy in. In three years, you would totally revolutionize
education in America." - Pat Robertson

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:06:10 -0600, "Brian O"
<briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote:

>
>"DonnaB shallotpeel" <shallotpeel@comcast.net> wrote in message

>> Not at all. Gays are & have been living in monogamous pair-bonds for many
>> many many years now. All that is missing is the legal sanction in most
>> states, as we wait for our institutions to catch up with our reality. Gays
>> are married to their gay partners. Gays do marry each other. No harm has
>> come to straight marriage & no harm can come to straight marriage from
>> people doing right & making full citizens of gays.
>>
>> > > Homosexuality
>> > > is based on sexual desire, not love, not monogomy, just the same as
>> > > heterosexual lust is.
>>
>> You are so wrong. Sexual desire is only one of the many natural aspects of
>> being gay, just as sexual desire is only one of the many natural aspects
>of
>> being straight.
>
>If Im so wrong, why do they engage in sexual behavior when its not a natural
>thing to do? Men were not created for me, nor women for women. Its all
>about lust and inordinate desire.

Why on earth do you care what consenting adults do in the privacy of
their homes? It isn't any of your business at all.
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~

Americans killed in Iraq as of March 17, 2007 is 3,219.
United Kingdom = 134 Other = 124.

As of March 20, 2007 it has been 1437 days since Bush
while standing in front of the banner which was sent
to the ship by the White House saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
declared,"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our
allies have prevailed." IOW MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair
Lewis

Brian O <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote:

> Statistics show
> that MOST homosexual males dont have a father figure in their lives.

No they don't. You've been listening to those fundamentalist priests again.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Brian O <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote:

[about homosexuals]

> If Im so wrong, why do they engage in sexual behavior when its not a natural
> thing to do?

You're obviously not taking your definition of "natural" from
nature. Let me guess, you found it in a religious text written by a
god, didn't you?

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

[Default] On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:07:12 -0600, "Brian O"
<briano1812@lispwest.com> Giggled into the madness of usenet:

>
>You may be right about it being instilled from childhood. Statistics show
>that MOST homosexual males dont have a father figure in their lives.

that's a lie.


As far
>as it being born into them as some claim, there is no verifiable evidence of
>any kind for that.

unsupported claim. but let me ask you this, if homosexuality is a
choice then heterosexuality is also a choice. when did you make this.
because having made this conscious choice you also admit to having
sexual attractions to males.

>As far as them not hurting anyone... everything someone does affects someone
>else. Their actions and demands for "marriage" water down what marriage is,
>a dedication to a mate of the opposite ses, as God intended, before
>witnesses, God, and in legality. Homosexuals have the right to marry, just
>not to the same gender, because thats not what marriage is.



so you are saying that if a gay man or woman marries a member of the
opposite sex this does not in any way harm that person or water down
the meaning of marriage? you truly are a sick individual. to condemn
people to a loveless life, a loveless marriage and you wonder why
heterosexual marriages are so frequently ending in divorce. you have
no clue what a real marriage is based on.

Homosexuality
>is based on sexual desire, not love, not monogomy, just the same as
>heterosexual lust is. Love between two people doesnt need to involve sex.
>If it were TRUE love, sex wouldnt be that important. I can love a man as a
>man, and a woman as a woman, and not have lust for them and feel the need to
>sleep with them. Homosexuality is not about that, its about inordinate
>desire for the same sex. If it were abut love as many homosexuals claim,
>they wouldnt need to engage in the behavior they do.


are you really that stupid? are you saying that couples who fall in
love, don't want to have sex, simply because of your mindless
ranting's?

sex is a normal healthy part of any relationship between 2 people in
romantic love. and that is the love we are talking about. the fact
that you deny gays are capable of that kind of love with one another
only shows how you have dehumanized them in your own mind to support
your prejudices.

dehumanizing the target of your hatred is a common tactic used by
fascists world wide through out all of human history.

>When we cave into the notion that what they do is natural and ok, then we
>open the door for anyone to do anything they wish, because they believe it
>to be ok. And when that happens, we dont have a leg to stand on to point to
>what is right and wrong, or to have any laws that try to dictate right and
>wrong. We have to have a moral code, we have to have a moral standard. If
>you have laws and cant justify them with a moral value from somewhere, then
>they are of no value. As Ive said before, its not about hate. There are
>ministries just waiting with open arms to help any homosexual that wants to
>be free from that lifestyle. I dare you to find a hateful bone in those
>ministries bodies.

cult behavior, isolating them from friends and family, food
deprivation, electroshock therapy, cold immersion, other forms of
sensory depravation and torture do not change sexual orientation they
do however damage the human being for the rest of their lives. I've
met some people who claim to have reformed through these so called
ministries. They are the saddest and most damaged people I have ever
known. using crack addicts are happier people.

>The only real hate Ive seen for for those that stand up for whats right and
>wrong.

in this you are correct, so stop hating those people who are pointing
out to you where you are wrong.

--
Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins


DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
..

[Default] On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:06:10 -0600, "Brian O"
<briano1812@lispwest.com> Giggled into the madness of usenet:

>
>If Im so wrong, why do they engage in sexual behavior when its not a natural
>thing to do? Men were not created for me, nor women for women. Its all
>about lust and inordinate desire.


Your answer lies within your own words. and I quote, you as a
heterosexual wrote : "Men were not created for me" if you were gay you
think and feel that way about women. What you expect of gays is to
either be with someone they do not love, or to go without love
entirely simply to support your prejudices. And you do not see that
as evil, as persecution and discrimination.

you are truly farther from God than you could ever possibly imagine
because of the insidious nature of what you have embraced.

you have rationalized dehumanizing and marginalizing an entire group
of human beings.

That evil has been done many times in human history with very tragic
results.

--
Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins


DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
..

"Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
news:hmf103lkce11bgc56vi1sn5upsri37u349@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:06:10 -0600, "Brian O"
> <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote:
>>
>>If Im so wrong, why do they engage in sexual behavior when its not a
>>natural
>>thing to do? Men were not created for me, nor women for women. Its all
>>about lust and inordinate desire.


> Why on earth do you care what consenting adults do in the privacy of
> their homes? It isn't any of your business at all.


Exactly. It isn't anyones business AS LONG AS NO ONE IS HARMED. And no one
is.

"Inordinate desire" ..... that phrase struck me. What a crock! According
to Brians philosophy, his god CREATED these individuals to desire same sex
contacts. There isn't anything "inordinate" about it as it is exactly what
they are hard wired to do......unless someone is suggesting they should be
dishonest with themselves and their god by forcing heterosexuality upon
them.

There are such things as perversions that do harm others. That is a
different kettle of fish. Those should be and are illegal. Homosexuals
harm no one, and it is unkind to try to force them to be different or to
deny them the right to be what their maker made them to be.

--
Best Regards,

Evelyn

"Chris Malcolm" <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:56ccjuF2754f2U2@mid.individual.net...
> Brian O <briano1812@lispwest.com> wrote:
>
> [about homosexuals]
>
>> If Im so wrong, why do they engage in sexual behavior when its not a
>> natural
>> thing to do?
>
> You're obviously not taking your definition of "natural" from
> nature. Let me guess, you found it in a religious text written by a
> god, didn't you?


Homosexual behavior is also seen in some animals. Gee, weren't they
listening to Brians god?

--
Best Regards,

Evelyn