re: Substitute for Avanida

I don't know of an equal substitute but would suggest you discuss this with
your doctor.

On a side note, My mail order pharmacy seems to be out of stock on Avandia.
Indicated a shipping delay in my case. If there is a supply problem then
that could have an impact on cost.

RB

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:09:53 -0600, "RB" <Youguesswho@aol.com> wrote:

>I don't know of an equal substitute but would suggest you discuss this with
>your doctor.
>
>On a side note, My mail order pharmacy seems to be out of stock on Avandia.
>Indicated a shipping delay in my case. If there is a supply problem then
>that could have an impact on cost.
>
>RB
>
My doctor took me off Avandia because of reported problems with the
stuff and put me on glimiperide -- which I think is generic Amaryl. I
was at first my BG meter was busted because of the much lower BGs than
I was accustomed to with Avandia. Over a month or so now, my BG has
run about 20 points lower than it was with the supposedly wonderful
Avandia -- and it costs about a tenth what Avandia does at my
pharmacy.

Somebody tell me what is wonderful about that stuff?

My Endo removed me from Avandia because I started to retain fluids and my
wt. shot up by 15 pounds.


JB


"Frank Emens" <femens@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:stb5r25sl6kpcmutsg6o7o2pahccubovd7@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:09:53 -0600, "RB" <Youguesswho@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>I don't know of an equal substitute but would suggest you discuss this
>>with
>>your doctor.
>>
>>On a side note, My mail order pharmacy seems to be out of stock on
>>Avandia.
>>Indicated a shipping delay in my case. If there is a supply problem then
>>that could have an impact on cost.
>>
>>RB
>>
> My doctor took me off Avandia because of reported problems with the
> stuff and put me on glimiperide -- which I think is generic Amaryl. I
> was at first my BG meter was busted because of the much lower BGs than
> I was accustomed to with Avandia. Over a month or so now, my BG has
> run about 20 points lower than it was with the supposedly wonderful
> Avandia -- and it costs about a tenth what Avandia does at my
> pharmacy.
>
> Somebody tell me what is wonderful about that stuff?

I am not making a case for or against Avandia. My point was that there may
be a supply problem which could affect the OP's concern with cost.

RB


"Jim" <helieco@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_6Nsh.1229$qt.292@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> My Endo removed me from Avandia because I started to retain fluids and my
> wt. shot up by 15 pounds.
>
>
> JB
>
>
> "Frank Emens" <femens@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
> news:stb5r25sl6kpcmutsg6o7o2pahccubovd7@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:09:53 -0600, "RB" <Youguesswho@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I don't know of an equal substitute but would suggest you discuss this
>>>with
>>>your doctor.
>>>
>>>On a side note, My mail order pharmacy seems to be out of stock on
>>>Avandia.
>>>Indicated a shipping delay in my case. If there is a supply problem then
>>>that could have an impact on cost.
>>>
>>>RB
>>>
>> My doctor took me off Avandia because of reported problems with the
>> stuff and put me on glimiperide -- which I think is generic Amaryl. I
>> was at first my BG meter was busted because of the much lower BGs than
>> I was accustomed to with Avandia. Over a month or so now, my BG has
>> run about 20 points lower than it was with the supposedly wonderful
>> Avandia -- and it costs about a tenth what Avandia does at my
>> pharmacy.
>>
>> Somebody tell me what is wonderful about that stuff?
>
>

neighbor Frank Emens wrote:
> neighbor "RB" <Youguesswho@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >I don't know of an equal substitute but would suggest you discuss this with
> >your doctor.
> >
> >On a side note, My mail order pharmacy seems to be out of stock on Avandia.
> >Indicated a shipping delay in my case. If there is a supply problem then
> >that could have an impact on cost.
> >
> >RB
> >
> My doctor took me off Avandia because of reported problems with the
> stuff and put me on glimiperide -- which I think is generic Amaryl. I
> was at first my BG meter was busted because of the much lower BGs than
> I was accustomed to with Avandia. Over a month or so now, my BG has
> run about 20 points lower than it was with the supposedly wonderful
> Avandia -- and it costs about a tenth what Avandia does at my
> pharmacy.
>
> Somebody tell me what is wonderful about that stuff?

It is a PPAR gamma agonist which addresses the underlying insulin
resistance of type-2 diabetes.

For this reason, it is like metformin (aka glucophage) in that it
functions as an insulin sensitizer.

Insulin sensitizers have the theoretical potential to either postpone
or avert the beta islet cell failure which leads to exogenous insulin
dependence of worsening type-2 diabetes.

For folks using the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach, weight gain on Avandia
does not happen because increased hunger does not result in increased
intake.

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com

My doctor took me off Avandia about 4 or 5 months ago, and switched me
to Actos. It has had a dramatic side effect of reducing my cholesterol
by about 30 or 40 points.

Unrelated, my A1c was creeping up with each successive quarterly test.
He sent me to an Endo, who started me on Byetta mid-November. This has
really brought down my glucose levels, often into the 90's or low
100's. I am not due for another A1c for a few more weeks, but expect
some very good results.

Byetta is a twice daily sub-cutaneous injection into the abdominal fat
layer. It is taken before breakfast and dinner, and is designed to
supplement metformin or sulfonyurea.

Byetta as a possible side-effect of severe nausea, but I did not
experience any at all. YMMV.

Jim

Warning, new readers, this source should be ignored as outlined from
long experience below.


> For folks using the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach, weight gain on Avandia
> does not happen because increased hunger does not result in increased
> intake."

The 2 pound diet has no basis in science. On it one can consume using
ordinary foods from 600 to 2500 calories with out regard to height or
activity level. At the latter intake all but the most active and/or
tall individuals will gain weight, a short and/or sedentary person will
become quickly obese.

Once more we find evidence reflecting:

The poster is not current on the latest diabetic literature, opinions
are distorted away from science toward a non-scientific agenda, research
to the contrary is willfully ignored, all the more reason to ignore the
source as it does not contain the truth.

On 21 Jan 2007 11:25:02 -0800, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> neighbor Frank Emens wrote:
/snip/

>> My doctor took me off Avandia because of reported problems with the
>> stuff and put me on glimiperide -
/snip/


> [Avandia] is a PPAR gamma agonist which addresses the underlying insulin
> resistance of type-2 diabetes.
>
> For this reason, it is like metformin (aka glucophage) in that it
> functions as an insulin sensitizer.
>
> Insulin sensitizers have the theoretical potential to either postpone
> or avert the beta islet cell failure which leads to exogenous insulin
> dependence of worsening type-2 diabetes.
>
> For folks using the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach, weight gain on Avandia
> does not happen because increased hunger does not result in increased
> intake.


This might relate to some issues my T2 friend has been having. Since being
diag in 2002, he has gone from Glyburide to Tolbutamide to 5MG Glipizide to
half dose Glipizide, each time having less 'hypo'-like crashes than the
previous regimen. People online at the uk ng have indicated that the next
step might be Glimiperide if the half dose Glip does not work out.

Under the half dose Glip (2.5MG), at least he FEELS hunger coming on in
time to stop and eat, instead of being surprised by a crash. (Weight is not
an issue, he has never been overweight.)

Insulin sensitivity meds have been in his plan for a while, and timing of
various meds has been tweaked to help the lack of hunger; but halving the
Glip dose recently has made a big difference.



Skinny

[Default] On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:51:08 -0800, default
<default@default.com> Giggled into the madness of usenet:
>
>This might relate to some issues my T2 friend has been having. Since being
>diag in 2002, he has gone from Glyburide to Tolbutamide to 5MG Glipizide to
>half dose Glipizide, each time having less 'hypo'-like crashes than the
>previous regimen. People online at the uk ng have indicated that the next
>step might be Glimiperide if the half dose Glip does not work out.
>
>Under the half dose Glip (2.5MG), at least he FEELS hunger coming on in
>time to stop and eat, instead of being surprised by a crash. (Weight is not
>an issue, he has never been overweight.)
>
>Insulin sensitivity meds have been in his plan for a while, and timing of
>various meds has been tweaked to help the lack of hunger; but halving the
>Glip dose recently has made a big difference.
>
>
>
>Skinny

you missed something, first that individual is a known nut case and
troll. second he is not saying that the meds suppress the appetite,
he falsely claims that restricting food intake to a total of his
nutter advise per day causes hunger and that the individual embraces
their hunger and therefore does not over eat.

--
Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins


DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
..

neighbor "Skinny" (default) wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > neighbor Frank Emens wrote:
> /snip/
>
> >> My doctor took me off Avandia because of reported problems with the
> >> stuff and put me on glimiperide -
> /snip/
>
>
> > [Avandia] is a PPAR gamma agonist which addresses the underlying insulin
> > resistance of type-2 diabetes.
> >
> > For this reason, it is like metformin (aka glucophage) in that it
> > functions as an insulin sensitizer.
> >
> > Insulin sensitizers have the theoretical potential to either postpone
> > or avert the beta islet cell failure which leads to exogenous insulin
> > dependence of worsening type-2 diabetes.
> >
> > For folks using the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach, weight gain on Avandia
> > does not happen because increased hunger does not result in increased
> > intake.
>
>
> This might relate to some issues my T2 friend has been having. Since being
> diag in 2002, he has gone from Glyburide to Tolbutamide to 5MG Glipizide to
> half dose Glipizide, each time having less 'hypo'-like crashes than the
> previous regimen. People online at the uk ng have indicated that the next
> step might be Glimiperide if the half dose Glip does not work out.
>
> Under the half dose Glip (2.5MG), at least he FEELS hunger coming on in
> time to stop and eat, instead of being surprised by a crash.

When the hypoglycemia occurs rapidly, there is typically no hunger but
rather a loss of appetite because of a compensatory hyperadrenergic
response.

> (Weight is not
> an issue, he has never been overweight.)

For type-2 diabetics, it is not the weight but the insulin resistance
arising from the visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that is universally an
issue.

> Insulin sensitivity meds have been in his plan for a while, and timing of
> various meds has been tweaked to help the lack of hunger; but halving the
> Glip dose recently has made a big difference.

See above.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love

On 23 Jan 2007 04:45:07 -0800, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

> neighbor "Skinny" (default) wrote:
>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>> neighbor Frank Emens wrote:
>> /snip/
>>
>>>> My doctor took me off Avandia because of reported problems with the
>>>> stuff and put me on glimiperide -
>> /snip/
>>
>>
>>> [Avandia] is a PPAR gamma agonist which addresses the underlying insulin
>>> resistance of type-2 diabetes.
>>>
>>> For this reason, it is like metformin (aka glucophage) in that it
>>> functions as an insulin sensitizer.
>>>
>>> Insulin sensitizers have the theoretical potential to either postpone
>>> or avert the beta islet cell failure which leads to exogenous insulin
>>> dependence of worsening type-2 diabetes.
>>>
>>> For folks using the diabetic 2PD-OMER Approach, weight gain on Avandia
>>> does not happen because increased hunger does not result in increased
>>> intake.
>>
>>
>> This might relate to some issues my T2 friend has been having. Since being
>> diag in 2002, he has gone from Glyburide to Tolbutamide to 5MG Glipizide to
>> half dose Glipizide, each time having less 'hypo'-like crashes than the
>> previous regimen. People online at the uk ng have indicated that the next
>> step might be Glimiperide if the half dose Glip does not work out.
>>
>> Under the half dose Glip (2.5MG), at least he FEELS hunger coming on in
>> time to stop and eat, instead of being surprised by a crash.
>
> When the hypoglycemia occurs rapidly, there is typically no hunger but
> rather a loss of appetite because of a compensatory hyperadrenergic
> response.


These hypoglycemia-like episodes occur after he has gone 2 or 3 hours since
a meal. He slowly loses energy, feels distaste for food, and it is only
after that that he sometimes has a sudden crash.

A loss of appetite at the key times has been a big part of the problem. He
was told to eat small meals every 2 or 3 hours, but when that time is
approaching often he feels distaste for food and cannot bring himself to
eat 'in advance of need.' Than perhaps 10 minutes later suddenly he will be
weak and furiously hungry. All this has improved somewhat since he halved
the Glip dosage.



Skinny

[Default] On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:04:57 -0800, skinny <no@none.com>
Giggled into the madness of usenet:

troll nuttery deleted

>These hypoglycemia-like episodes occur after he has gone 2 or 3 hours since
>a meal. He slowly loses energy, feels distaste for food, and it is only
>after that that he sometimes has a sudden crash.
>
>A loss of appetite at the key times has been a big part of the problem. He
>was told to eat small meals every 2 or 3 hours, but when that time is
>approaching often he feels distaste for food and cannot bring himself to
>eat 'in advance of need.' Than perhaps 10 minutes later suddenly he will be
>weak and furiously hungry. All this has improved somewhat since he halved
>the Glip dosage.
>
>
>
>Skinny

I don't know if the reaction to food is a direct result of the oral
meds. You'll have to ask someone who takes them. However the
response to a hypo is an individual thing. When I go hypo I get
extremely hungry most of the time. It's only rarely that I do not
want food before the hypo.

there is no universal pattern to how we react to hypos.

the individual you responded to is a known nut case and troll. he
doesn't know anything about diabetes other than what he has read and
misinterpreted on the net.

--
Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins


DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
..