<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Short-term peaks in glucose promote renal fibrogenesis<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
Health Forums

Go Back   Health Forums > Diseases and Conditions > Diabetes > alt.support.diabetes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-18-2007, 12:29 AM
Alan S
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Short-term peaks in glucose promote renal fibrogenesis

There is a continuing discussion as to which is worse -
long-term high exposure to moderately elevated blood glucose
levels or short-term much higher spikes. Most of the
discussion I've read here on the subject tend to focus on
vascular and cardio damage. While searching for something
else I came across this paper on renal aspects.

I won't pretend to be able to follow it all, so I'll be
interested to hear the comments by our scientists.

Here is how I understand it as a layman. I may be totally
wrong so please correct me if I am.

Segments of normal renal cortex from nine renally healthy
non-diabetic subjects were treated in the laboratory by
exposure to four different "glucose conditions."

1. One glucose condition was the control and was subjected
to 72 hours constant exposure to 5mM(90mg/dl).

2. The second was exposed to 72 hours of 15mM(270).

3. The third "fluctuating glucose" was exposed to a cycle of
two hours at 15(270) followed by three hours at 5(90). This
was repeated three times daily, then incubated at 5(90)
overnight and the cycle repeated for two more days. In this
fluctuating protocol, the cells were exposed to a total of
180 mM glucose over a 24-h period compared with 120 mM under
control conditions.

4. The fourth or "moderately elevated glucose" involved
constant exposure to 7.5 mM. This condition gave the same
total glucose load over 24 h as the fluctuating condition
(180 mM) but delivered it in a constant manner.

There was a separate control to check on the experimental
methods.

Their results, in brief:

"In summary, this study provides evidence that short-term
repeated exposure to high-glucose conditions amplifies the
adverse cellular responses compared with cells exposed to
the same glucose load or constantly high levels of glucose.
These effects are shown to be mediated through both
osmotically and nonosmotically induced mechanisms. These
results are likely to have important implications for the
monitoring and treatment strategies implemented in patients
with diabetes mellitus."

If you read the detail, the surprise to me was that the
fluctuating 5-15 mM levels were actually worse for some
results than continuous high 15mM levels; they were
definitely worse than steady 7.5 mM . Maybe I'm reading it
wrong. However, despite it's limitations it's one of the few
papers indicating that short term high spikes may be causing
damage, in this case to kidneys.


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Slovenia
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-18-2007, 01:37 PM
J.C. Hartmann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Short-term peaks in glucose promote renal fibrogenesis

Alan S wrote:
> There is a continuing discussion as to which is worse -
> long-term high exposure to moderately elevated blood glucose
> levels or short-term much higher spikes. Most of the
> discussion I've read here on the subject tend to focus on
> vascular and cardio damage. While searching for something
> else I came across this paper on renal aspects.
>
> I won't pretend to be able to follow it all, so I'll be
> interested to hear the comments by our scientists.
>
> Here is how I understand it as a layman. I may be totally
> wrong so please correct me if I am.
>
> Segments of normal renal cortex from nine renally healthy
> non-diabetic subjects were treated in the laboratory by
> exposure to four different "glucose conditions."
>
> 1. One glucose condition was the control and was subjected
> to 72 hours constant exposure to 5mM(90mg/dl).
>
> 2. The second was exposed to 72 hours of 15mM(270).
>
> 3. The third "fluctuating glucose" was exposed to a cycle of
> two hours at 15(270) followed by three hours at 5(90). This
> was repeated three times daily, then incubated at 5(90)
> overnight and the cycle repeated for two more days. In this
> fluctuating protocol, the cells were exposed to a total of
> 180 mM glucose over a 24-h period compared with 120 mM under
> control conditions.
>
> 4. The fourth or "moderately elevated glucose" involved
> constant exposure to 7.5 mM. This condition gave the same
> total glucose load over 24 h as the fluctuating condition
> (180 mM) but delivered it in a constant manner.
>
> There was a separate control to check on the experimental
> methods.
>
> Their results, in brief:
>
> "In summary, this study provides evidence that short-term
> repeated exposure to high-glucose conditions amplifies the
> adverse cellular responses compared with cells exposed to
> the same glucose load or constantly high levels of glucose.
> These effects are shown to be mediated through both
> osmotically and nonosmotically induced mechanisms. These
> results are likely to have important implications for the
> monitoring and treatment strategies implemented in patients
> with diabetes mellitus."
>
> If you read the detail, the surprise to me was that the
> fluctuating 5-15 mM levels were actually worse for some
> results than continuous high 15mM levels; they were
> definitely worse than steady 7.5 mM . Maybe I'm reading it
> wrong. However, despite it's limitations it's one of the few
> papers indicating that short term high spikes may be causing
> damage, in this case to kidneys.
>
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.


Ummm. Got a URL?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-18-2007, 01:37 PM
Alan S
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Short-term peaks in glucose promote renal fibrogenesis

On Thu, 17 May 2007 20:04:52 -0500, "J.C. Hartmann"
<jch@meadecom.com> wrote:
<snip>
>
>Ummm. Got a URL?


Oops:-)

http://ajprenal.physiology.org/cgi/c...act/287/2/F268

Am J Physiol Renal Physiol 287: F268-F273, 2004. First
published April 27, 2004; doi:10.1152/ajprenal.00084.2004
0363-6127/04


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Slovenia
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-18-2007, 01:37 PM
Alan S
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Short-term peaks in glucose promote renal fibrogenesis

On Thu, 17 May 2007 20:04:52 -0500, "J.C. Hartmann"
<jch@meadecom.com> wrote:

>Ummm. Got a URL?


And the full text pdf is:
http://ajprenal.physiology.org/cgi/reprint/287/2/F268


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Slovenia
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-18-2007, 01:38 PM
Nicky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Short-term peaks in glucose promote renal fibrogenesis

On Fri, 18 May 2007 01:50:14 GMT, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 17 May 2007 20:04:52 -0500, "J.C. Hartmann"
><jch@meadecom.com> wrote:
><snip>
>>
>>Ummm. Got a URL?

>
>Oops:-)
>
>http://ajprenal.physiology.org/cgi/c...act/287/2/F268


Aha! : ) Human tissue. That's interesting - I assumed it was mouse
from the extracts you posted earlier.

I wonder why they chose 7.5mmol? - Jenny's research suggests 7.8, I
wonder where the actual figure lies.

Don't know enough about what's going on to comment.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.5% BMI 25
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Post Prandial Peaks Alan S alt.support.diabetes 68 05-22-2007 09:20 PM
How to treat renal pelvis cancer??? Sigi Rindler alt.support.cancer 2 04-26-2007 06:40 PM
How to treat renal pelvis cancer??? Sigi Rindler alt.support.cancer.breast 1 04-26-2007 10:17 AM
How to treat renal pelvis cancer??? Sigi Rindler alt.support.cancer.prostate 0 04-26-2007 10:17 AM
What's your next short term goal? Cynthia P alt.support.diet 20 04-14-2007 07:26 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0
     
   
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41