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  #1  
Old 04-15-2007, 08:53 PM
Susan
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Default Statin information (lifted from another ng)

x-no-archive: yes


If you are interested in the topic of whether statins should be used
for primary prevention, you may want to look at the March 31, 2007
edition of The Lancet, which prints three letters responding to John
Abramson and James Wright's 1/20/07 comment, Are lipid-lowering
guidelines evidence-based?; Lancet 2007; 369:168-69. Abramson and
Wright argued that there is no evidence that lipid-lowering therapy
reduces mortality in individuals without evident coronary artery
disease.

Ruth McPherson and Nihan Kavaslar of the University of Ottawa Heart
Institute argue that Abramson and Wright "do not take into account the
fact that, owing to the young age of the participants and short
treatment period, none of the primary prevention studies was powered
to detect changes in total mortality." They argue that "moderately
low LDL cholesterol concentrations maintained over the course of a
lifetime greatly reduce long-term risk."

Marcus M. Reidenberg of Weill Cornell Medical College points out that
for people with HDL concentrations above 1.11 mmol/L in the four
placebo-controlled primary prevention trials for which HDL
stratification was presented, the number needed to treat to prevent
one cardiovascular event was much higher than the value of 67 people
treated for 5 years cited by Abramson and Wright. He concludes that
"the lack of benefit of statins for primary prevention, especially for
people with high HDL concentrations, does not imply that these people
do not have a high risk of having a cardiovascular event. It simply
means that statin therapy does not lower the risk."

Luca Mascitelli and Francesca Pezzatta point out that there is reason
to believe that side-effects of statins are much more common in
clinical practice than was found in statin trials. They conclude
that "statin therapy might worsen quality of life" and also might
discourage exercise because of muscle pain caused by the statins.

Author's reply: Abramson and Wright point out that the eight
available trials for primary prevention comprise more than 40,000
individuals, and that "these pooled data are certainly powered to
detect a reduction in mortality and fail to do so." In addition, they
state that although there is an association between LDL cholesterol
and coronary artery disease in some populations, "one can not assume
that predicted benefits from epidemiological data will be achieved in
drug intervention trials." They support subgroup analysis with
respect to people with high HDL concentrations, as suggested by
Reidenberg. They also support testing the hypothesis that statin-
related muscle complaints interfere with the ability of patients to
exercise. They conclude that "the first step in resolving these
issues is for the CTT collaborators to respond to these challenges."
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  #2  
Old 04-15-2007, 08:53 PM
Peter G. \(Bigbird\)
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Statin information (lifted from another ng)

Thanks Susan for this.... my Dr. seems determined to get me on a Statin
even though my latest numbers are ok. I keep dancing away, mostly because
of the side effects, but I fear she might make a crusade of the issue.

Total=175, Trig=69, HDL=52, LDL=109, Trig/HDL = 1.33
--
Peter G.
(bigbird)

"Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:58fa3sF2gh58fU1@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
> If you are interested in the topic of whether statins should be used
> for primary prevention, you may want to look at the March 31, 2007
> edition of The Lancet, which prints three letters responding to John
> Abramson and James Wright's 1/20/07 comment, Are lipid-lowering
> guidelines evidence-based?; Lancet 2007; 369:168-69. Abramson and
> Wright argued that there is no evidence that lipid-lowering therapy
> reduces mortality in individuals without evident coronary artery
> disease.
>
> Ruth McPherson and Nihan Kavaslar of the University of Ottawa Heart
> Institute argue that Abramson and Wright "do not take into account the
> fact that, owing to the young age of the participants and short
> treatment period, none of the primary prevention studies was powered
> to detect changes in total mortality." They argue that "moderately
> low LDL cholesterol concentrations maintained over the course of a
> lifetime greatly reduce long-term risk."
>
> Marcus M. Reidenberg of Weill Cornell Medical College points out that
> for people with HDL concentrations above 1.11 mmol/L in the four
> placebo-controlled primary prevention trials for which HDL
> stratification was presented, the number needed to treat to prevent
> one cardiovascular event was much higher than the value of 67 people
> treated for 5 years cited by Abramson and Wright. He concludes that
> "the lack of benefit of statins for primary prevention, especially for
> people with high HDL concentrations, does not imply that these people
> do not have a high risk of having a cardiovascular event. It simply
> means that statin therapy does not lower the risk."
>
> Luca Mascitelli and Francesca Pezzatta point out that there is reason
> to believe that side-effects of statins are much more common in
> clinical practice than was found in statin trials. They conclude
> that "statin therapy might worsen quality of life" and also might
> discourage exercise because of muscle pain caused by the statins.
>
> Author's reply: Abramson and Wright point out that the eight
> available trials for primary prevention comprise more than 40,000
> individuals, and that "these pooled data are certainly powered to
> detect a reduction in mortality and fail to do so." In addition, they
> state that although there is an association between LDL cholesterol
> and coronary artery disease in some populations, "one can not assume
> that predicted benefits from epidemiological data will be achieved in
> drug intervention trials." They support subgroup analysis with
> respect to people with high HDL concentrations, as suggested by
> Reidenberg. They also support testing the hypothesis that statin-
> related muscle complaints interfere with the ability of patients to
> exercise. They conclude that "the first step in resolving these
> issues is for the CTT collaborators to respond to these challenges."



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  #3  
Old 04-15-2007, 08:53 PM
Susan
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Statin information (lifted from another ng)

x-no-archive: yes

Peter G. (Bigbird) wrote:
> Thanks Susan for this.... my Dr. seems determined to get me on a Statin
> even though my latest numbers are ok. I keep dancing away, mostly because
> of the side effects, but I fear she might make a crusade of the issue.
>
> Total=175, Trig=69, HDL=52, LDL=109, Trig/HDL = 1.33



Peter, with those numbers and ratios, it's hard to figure out what she
wants to treat.

Susan
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  #4  
Old 04-15-2007, 08:53 PM
Peter G. \(Bigbird\)
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Statin information (lifted from another ng)


"Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:58fdkmF2e93m9U1@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Peter G. (Bigbird) wrote:
>> Thanks Susan for this.... my Dr. seems determined to get me on a Statin
>> even though my latest numbers are ok. I keep dancing away, mostly
>> because of the side effects, but I fear she might make a crusade of the
>> issue.
>>
>> Total=175, Trig=69, HDL=52, LDL=109, Trig/HDL = 1.33

>
>
> Peter, with those numbers and ratios, it's hard to figure out what she
> wants to treat.
>
> Susan


Yup, that's the way I'm seeing it too. Numbers not *great* but not really
bad either. I'm glad you agree.

I just had another lipid panel Friday.... not sure why she wanted it done,
but we'll see where she wants to take this.

FWIW, those numbers were achieved through exercise and activity, Niacin, and
Pantethine.

Hope you've had a pleasant weekend,

Peter G.
(bigbird)


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  #5  
Old 04-15-2007, 08:54 PM
Susan
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Statin information (lifted from another ng)

x-no-archive: yes

Peter G. (Bigbird) wrote:

> Yup, that's the way I'm seeing it too. Numbers not *great* but not really
> bad either. I'm glad you agree.


Peter, those numbers are great, IMO.

>
> I just had another lipid panel Friday.... not sure why she wanted it done,
> but we'll see where she wants to take this.
>
> FWIW, those numbers were achieved through exercise and activity, Niacin, and
> Pantethine.


Your high HDL and very low TGL point to undamaging, large and fluffy LDL.


>
> Hope you've had a pleasant weekend,


Nuh uh; in the middle of a dreary nor'easter right now.

Susan
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  #6  
Old 04-16-2007, 03:23 AM
Loretta Eisenberg
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Default Re: Statin information (lifted from another ng)

Dr.Robert Jarvik, the inventor of the artificial heart is on Lipitor.
There are many benefits to it. I know it absolutely works for me.

Loretta

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  #7  
Old 04-16-2007, 03:23 AM
Cheri
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Statin information (lifted from another ng)

Bet the good doctor is making a ton of money off those endorsements,
and his bio shows that even if he's not exactly the best doctor in the
world, he is a good businessman. I'm glad the medication works for you
Loretta, but it does cause problems for some. It's definitely a YMMV
type thing.

Cheri

Loretta Eisenberg wrote in message
<7286-4622B903-731@storefull-3235.bay.webtv.net>...
Dr.Robert Jarvik, the inventor of the artificial heart is on Lipitor.
There are many benefits to it. I know it absolutely works for me.

Loretta


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  #8  
Old 04-16-2007, 02:18 PM
Alan S
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Statin information (lifted from another ng)

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 12:25:58 -0700, "Peter G. \(Bigbird\)"
<unknown at whoknows dot us> wrote:

>Thanks Susan for this.... my Dr. seems determined to get me on a Statin
>even though my latest numbers are ok. I keep dancing away, mostly because
>of the side effects, but I fear she might make a crusade of the issue.
>
>Total=175, Trig=69, HDL=52, LDL=109, Trig/HDL = 1.33
>--
>Peter G.
>(bigbird)


I wish my numbers were as good as yours. Brilliant trigs/HDL
ratio in mg/dl terms.

Why on earth does the doc want you on statins? Just say
no:-)



Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Athens and The Adriatic
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  #9  
Old 04-16-2007, 02:18 PM
Peter G. \(Bigbird\)
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Statin information (lifted from another ng)


"Alan S" <loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:34r523dh1t7j20c3u45bum30dpo380q47k@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 12:25:58 -0700, "Peter G. \(Bigbird\)"
> <unknown at whoknows dot us> wrote:
>
>>Thanks Susan for this.... my Dr. seems determined to get me on a Statin
>>even though my latest numbers are ok. I keep dancing away, mostly because
>>of the side effects, but I fear she might make a crusade of the issue.
>>
>>Total=175, Trig=69, HDL=52, LDL=109, Trig/HDL = 1.33
>>--
>>Peter G.
>>(bigbird)

>
> I wish my numbers were as good as yours. Brilliant trigs/HDL
> ratio in mg/dl terms.
>
> Why on earth does the doc want you on statins? Just say
> no:-)
>
>
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.


I really can't say for sure. Possibly since she's a VA Dr., she may be
following some VA directive or guideline?? I plan to insist on my decision
to abstain from any of the statins.

I wish everyone's numbers could be ideal. I consider myself quite lucky that
I can manage this well. And I absolutely don't take the attitude that since
I can do it than everyone should be able to.......

Peter G.
(bigbird)


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