What "doc" do you trusr

With a long history in use of docs, I do not trust any of them without
qualification.

I think I can "assume" that there is many variation in the
syndrome we call diabetes.

I had to get busy and dig for information when the
complication became severe. Too much of
my good information came from MHD.

If you want quick simple answers you simply stick with
a doc.

That did not work for me. I still search several times
a week..

I feel we are still weak in information and understanding.

Who in the hell is smart enough to have all of the answers
All seem to fall short in the long term.

I do have other problems and the docs are falling short.
But the bills do increase.

In my opinion, We do fall short on ther subject of diabetes.
We need to quit bragging and childish criticism and grab
all of the collective knowledge. We will not do that by being
arrogant at the teen level.

Diabetes will eat your lunch if you are wrong. Be very careful
in offering advice not based on firm information or
principles. Qualify what you post for others to read

..

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guy wrote:
> With a long history in use of docs, I do not trust any of them without
> qualification.
>
> I think I can "assume" that there is many variation in the
> syndrome we call diabetes.
>
> I had to get busy and dig for information when the
> complication became severe. Too much of
> my good information came from MHD.
>
> If you want quick simple answers you simply stick with
> a doc.
>
> That did not work for me. I still search several times
> a week..
>
> I feel we are still weak in information and understanding.
>
> Who in the hell is smart enough to have all of the answers
> All seem to fall short in the long term.
>
> I do have other problems and the docs are falling short.
> But the bills do increase.
>
> In my opinion, We do fall short on ther subject of diabetes.
> We need to quit bragging and childish criticism and grab
> all of the collective knowledge. We will not do that by being
> arrogant at the teen level.
>
> Diabetes will eat your lunch if you are wrong. Be very careful
> in offering advice not based on firm information or
> principles. Qualify what you post for others to read

When it comes to diabetes, I trust my Endocrinologist who understands
diabetes and understands my personal needs. When it comes to other
general problems that are not diabetic related, I trust my GP. If I
have a problem that is not general in nature then I seek out a
specialist. As a diabetic, I understand the importance of learning as
much as I can about my disease so that I can make intelligent choices
with the medical team that I do trust. I don't have all the
answers...hell, I don't even have all of the questions. I never mind
paying for quality medical care because there are so many costs that
doctors must incur just to stay in practice.

What I don't trust are people who think they are diabetes experts
because they have a computer and have learned how to use a search
engine. The best part of these newsgroups is it provides a forum on
which many people can share stories about how they personally deal with
this insidious disease. The worst part of these newsgroups is that it
contains amateurs who are dispensing medical advice and have cobbled
together enough "cites" to push their agenda.

Kurt

On 9 Dec 2006 18:41:12 -0800, "Kurt"
<kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>guy wrote:
>> With a long history in use of docs, I do not trust any of them without
>> qualification.
>>
>> I think I can "assume" that there is many variation in the
>> syndrome we call diabetes.
>>
>> I had to get busy and dig for information when the
>> complication became severe. Too much of
>> my good information came from MHD.
>>
>> If you want quick simple answers you simply stick with
>> a doc.
>>
>> That did not work for me. I still search several times
>> a week..
>>
>> I feel we are still weak in information and understanding.
>>
>> Who in the hell is smart enough to have all of the answers
>> All seem to fall short in the long term.
>>
>> I do have other problems and the docs are falling short.
>> But the bills do increase.
>>
>> In my opinion, We do fall short on ther subject of diabetes.
>> We need to quit bragging and childish criticism and grab
>> all of the collective knowledge. We will not do that by being
>> arrogant at the teen level.
>>
>> Diabetes will eat your lunch if you are wrong. Be very careful
>> in offering advice not based on firm information or
>> principles. Qualify what you post for others to read
>
>When it comes to diabetes, I trust my Endocrinologist who understands
>diabetes and understands my personal needs. When it comes to other
>general problems that are not diabetic related, I trust my GP. If I
>have a problem that is not general in nature then I seek out a
>specialist. As a diabetic, I understand the importance of learning as
>much as I can about my disease so that I can make intelligent choices
>with the medical team that I do trust. I don't have all the
>answers...hell, I don't even have all of the questions. I never mind
>paying for quality medical care because there are so many costs that
>doctors must incur just to stay in practice.
>
Why are you here?

>What I don't trust are people who think they are diabetes experts
>because they have a computer and have learned how to use a search
>engine. The best part of these newsgroups is it provides a forum on
>which many people can share stories about how they personally deal with
>this insidious disease. The worst part of these newsgroups is that it
>contains amateurs who are dispensing medical advice and have cobbled
>together enough "cites" to push their agenda.
>
>Kurt

Why are you here?

Alan, T2, Australia.

Alan S wrote:
> On 9 Dec 2006 18:41:12 -0800, "Kurt"
> <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >guy wrote:
> >> With a long history in use of docs, I do not trust any of them without
> >> qualification.
> >>
> >> I think I can "assume" that there is many variation in the
> >> syndrome we call diabetes.
> >>
> >> I had to get busy and dig for information when the
> >> complication became severe. Too much of
> >> my good information came from MHD.
> >>
> >> If you want quick simple answers you simply stick with
> >> a doc.
> >>
> >> That did not work for me. I still search several times
> >> a week..
> >>
> >> I feel we are still weak in information and understanding.
> >>
> >> Who in the hell is smart enough to have all of the answers
> >> All seem to fall short in the long term.
> >>
> >> I do have other problems and the docs are falling short.
> >> But the bills do increase.
> >>
> >> In my opinion, We do fall short on ther subject of diabetes.
> >> We need to quit bragging and childish criticism and grab
> >> all of the collective knowledge. We will not do that by being
> >> arrogant at the teen level.
> >>
> >> Diabetes will eat your lunch if you are wrong. Be very careful
> >> in offering advice not based on firm information or
> >> principles. Qualify what you post for others to read
> >
> >When it comes to diabetes, I trust my Endocrinologist who understands
> >diabetes and understands my personal needs. When it comes to other
> >general problems that are not diabetic related, I trust my GP. If I
> >have a problem that is not general in nature then I seek out a
> >specialist. As a diabetic, I understand the importance of learning as
> >much as I can about my disease so that I can make intelligent choices
> >with the medical team that I do trust. I don't have all the
> >answers...hell, I don't even have all of the questions. I never mind
> >paying for quality medical care because there are so many costs that
> >doctors must incur just to stay in practice.
> >
> Why are you here?
>
> >What I don't trust are people who think they are diabetes experts
> >because they have a computer and have learned how to use a search
> >engine. The best part of these newsgroups is it provides a forum on
> >which many people can share stories about how they personally deal with
> >this insidious disease. The worst part of these newsgroups is that it
> >contains amateurs who are dispensing medical advice and have cobbled
> >together enough "cites" to push their agenda.
> >
> >Kurt
>
> Why are you here?

Well, I know why YOU are here and happily I say, "it ain't the same
reason."

I'm here for several reasons but unlike you it does not give my life
meaning, nor do I even consider it an important part of my day. Like
most, not you, who post on newsgroups I do so because there is a point
of interest I share with the people who have come together to share
words. In this case, it's diabetes. Since I have been a diabetic for
over 20 years I have something in common with many people here. I
enjoy reading many of the posters here and get something out of what
they have to say.

But, in your case, Alan, I think I also serve a purpose. I provide an
anal, obsessive, passive-aggressive, net-nanny like yourself someone to
critcize and try to play den mother to at every turn. Without me, you
are nothing.

Kurt

I trust them as much as a doctor with a search engine. The worst part of
these newsgroups are those that discount everything that is said, just
because it's said on a newsgroup. The best part of these newsgroups, is
that they are living it, and not charging you $132.00 a visit to tell
you...I don't know.
--
Cheri

Kurt wrote in message

<1165718472.604341.89340@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.c om>...
>What I don't trust are people who think they are diabetes experts
>because they have a computer and have learned how to use a search
>engine. The best part of these newsgroups is it provides a forum on
>which many people can share stories about how they personally deal with
>this insidious disease. The worst part of these newsgroups is that it
>contains amateurs who are dispensing medical advice and have cobbled
>together enough "cites" to push their agenda.
>
>Kurt
>

On 9 Dec 2006 19:21:11 -0800, "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Alan S wrote:
>> On 9 Dec 2006 18:41:12 -0800, "Kurt"
>> <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >guy wrote:
>> >> With a long history in use of docs, I do not trust any of them without
>> >> qualification.
>> >>
>> >> I think I can "assume" that there is many variation in the
>> >> syndrome we call diabetes.
>> >>
>> >> I had to get busy and dig for information when the
>> >> complication became severe. Too much of
>> >> my good information came from MHD.
>> >>
>> >> If you want quick simple answers you simply stick with
>> >> a doc.
>> >>
>> >> That did not work for me. I still search several times
>> >> a week..
>> >>
>> >> I feel we are still weak in information and understanding.
>> >>
>> >> Who in the hell is smart enough to have all of the answers
>> >> All seem to fall short in the long term.
>> >>
>> >> I do have other problems and the docs are falling short.
>> >> But the bills do increase.
>> >>
>> >> In my opinion, We do fall short on ther subject of diabetes.
>> >> We need to quit bragging and childish criticism and grab
>> >> all of the collective knowledge. We will not do that by being
>> >> arrogant at the teen level.
>> >>
>> >> Diabetes will eat your lunch if you are wrong. Be very careful
>> >> in offering advice not based on firm information or
>> >> principles. Qualify what you post for others to read
>> >
>> >When it comes to diabetes, I trust my Endocrinologist who understands
>> >diabetes and understands my personal needs. When it comes to other
>> >general problems that are not diabetic related, I trust my GP. If I
>> >have a problem that is not general in nature then I seek out a
>> >specialist. As a diabetic, I understand the importance of learning as
>> >much as I can about my disease so that I can make intelligent choices
>> >with the medical team that I do trust. I don't have all the
>> >answers...hell, I don't even have all of the questions. I never mind
>> >paying for quality medical care because there are so many costs that
>> >doctors must incur just to stay in practice.
>> >
>> Why are you here?
>>
>> >What I don't trust are people who think they are diabetes experts
>> >because they have a computer and have learned how to use a search
>> >engine. The best part of these newsgroups is it provides a forum on
>> >which many people can share stories about how they personally deal with
>> >this insidious disease. The worst part of these newsgroups is that it
>> >contains amateurs who are dispensing medical advice and have cobbled
>> >together enough "cites" to push their agenda.
>> >
>> >Kurt
>>
>> Why are you here?
>
>Well, I know why YOU are here and happily I say, "it ain't the same
>reason."
>
>I'm here for several reasons but unlike you it does not give my life
>meaning, nor do I even consider it an important part of my day. Like
>most, not you, who post on newsgroups I do so because there is a point
>of interest I share with the people who have come together to share
>words. In this case, it's diabetes. Since I have been a diabetic for
>over 20 years I have something in common with many people here. I
>enjoy reading many of the posters here and get something out of what
>they have to say.
>
>But, in your case, Alan, I think I also serve a purpose. I provide an
>anal, obsessive, passive-aggressive, net-nanny like yourself someone to
>critcize and try to play den mother to at every turn. Without me, you
>are nothing.
>
>Kurt

I left all replies to show the varied comments.

Now, I will say one thing for sure.

I was in a tough situation nd was losing the diabetes game.

I even had a librarian get ,me diabetes reference book from
a Ga;vestion Medical library.. I was close to being unable to work
and lose medical coverage.

The first week I could get a local ISP I was on line searching
diabetes.. Not a lot then but I did find MHD and started to make
some sense of my condition.

I found a bunch of capable people that were trying th help.
I slowly started to learn the facts related to my case.

If that had not happened I would not be here.

I still see a lot of lazy docs in the game that had a Saturday
session. They will never understand a closed loop system
and think NPH lasts over 24 hours. I have long list of
misinformation. MHD and some people there
gave me what I could not find elsewhere.

I do have less trust in doctors than most with good
reason. There is no argument over the quality
and expense of some docs. It is sad situation.

But I will take them over some ego post and
I trust some docs but not all.

I posted this because some computer
users use these groups. for the wrong purpose.

I do know I am an ignorant bum but I do want
to do a tiny bit for others. All I have now. is
not much.

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Alan S wrote:
> On 9 Dec 2006 18:41:12 -0800, "Kurt"
> <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>When it comes to diabetes, I trust my Endocrinologist who
understands
>>diabetes and understands my personal needs. When it comes
to other
>>general problems that are not diabetic related, I trust my
GP. If I
>>have a problem that is not general in nature then I seek
out a
>>specialist. As a diabetic, I understand the importance of
learning as
>>much as I can about my disease so that I can make
intelligent choices
>>with the medical team that I do trust. I don't have all
the
>>answers...hell, I don't even have all of the questions. I
never mind
>>paying for quality medical care because there are so many
costs that
>>doctors must incur just to stay in practice.
>>
> Why are you here?

To bitch and moan about people who take a pro-active stance
with their diabetes treatment. If the majority of people who
are pro-active took their doctors' advice literally we would
be seeing far more complications amongst us. Most GP advice
is for the brain-dead and the potential non-compliants (who
are deemed non-compliant before the doctor even gets to
speak to them). I don't expect any GP to have more than a
passing knowledege of the many illnesses they see every day,
but I do expect them to have the ability to take their ego
hats off and direct a person to a specialist instead of
trying to treat something outside their scope by themselves.
My GP was a good 4 years behind with prescribing ACE
medication to diabetics. And that is just the tip of the
iceberg with him. I pity his patients who had never had any
contact with an endo like I was fortunate enough to have
had.

If I had heart problems I would fully expect to be referred
to a cardiologist, if cancer then an oncologist. Why do GP's
think they are God and able to effectively advise and treat
a multi-faceted disease like type 2 diabetes? It's not hard
at all to know more about diabetes than the average GP.
Kurt would like to see everyone return to the Dark Ages if
his insistence on following a doctor's guidelines are any
indication. Endo, yes, GP not likely. Kurt's recommendations
(and the ADA's for that matter) rarely recommend an endo or
qualify the statement about "seeing you doctor". In fact
today is the first time I remember seeing Kurt advise an
endo over a GP.

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 04:17:57 GMT, guys@consolidated.neet
(guy) wrote:

>
>I do have less trust in doctors than most with good
>reason. There is no argument over the quality
>and expense of some docs. It is sad situation.
>
>But I will take them over some ego post and
>I trust some docs but not all.

Guy, you left in the links with some pretty nasty stuff
about me. If you have a problem with me - say so directly
please. If not, say that too please.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus

There is so much good info in these groups Kurt, including your mantra
of see your endo. Hopefully, someone will see that and do it, and
hopefully someone will see test, test, test, and do that. I have never
seen anyone who said...this is the way it is, period. I don't know where
you see that Kurt, I really don't.

--
Cheri

>>What I don't trust are people who think they are diabetes experts
>>because they have a computer and have learned how to use a search
>>engine. The best part of these newsgroups is it provides a forum on
>>which many people can share stories about how they personally deal
with
>>this insidious disease. The worst part of these newsgroups is that it
>>contains amateurs who are dispensing medical advice and have cobbled
>>together enough "cites" to push their agenda.
>>
>>Kurt

$132.00...mine charges twice as much. I swear they have a pipeline to
my bank and they base their fee on how much money I have. Bastards!

Cheri, I just returned from a very boring party and am having a beer
right now, I just might chase it with some tomato juice in your honor!
-

Best,
Kurt


Cheri wrote:
> I trust them as much as a doctor with a search engine. The worst part of
> these newsgroups are those that discount everything that is said, just
> because it's said on a newsgroup. The best part of these newsgroups, is
> that they are living it, and not charging you $132.00 a visit to tell
> you...I don't know.
> --
> Cheri
>
> Kurt wrote in message
>
> <1165718472.604341.89340@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.c om>...
> >What I don't trust are people who think they are diabetes experts
> >because they have a computer and have learned how to use a search
> >engine. The best part of these newsgroups is it provides a forum on
> >which many people can share stories about how they personally deal with
> >this insidious disease. The worst part of these newsgroups is that it
> >contains amateurs who are dispensing medical advice and have cobbled
> >together enough "cites" to push their agenda.
> >
> >Kurt
> >

Ozgirl wrote:
> Alan S wrote:
> > On 9 Dec 2006 18:41:12 -0800, "Kurt"
> > <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>When it comes to diabetes, I trust my Endocrinologist who
> understands
> >>diabetes and understands my personal needs. When it comes
> to other
> >>general problems that are not diabetic related, I trust my
> GP. If I
> >>have a problem that is not general in nature then I seek
> out a
> >>specialist. As a diabetic, I understand the importance of
> learning as
> >>much as I can about my disease so that I can make
> intelligent choices
> >>with the medical team that I do trust. I don't have all
> the
> >>answers...hell, I don't even have all of the questions. I
> never mind
> >>paying for quality medical care because there are so many
> costs that
> >>doctors must incur just to stay in practice.
> >>
> > Why are you here?
>
> To bitch and moan about people who take a pro-active stance
> with their diabetes treatment.

Then I would be bitching and moaning about myself because I'm very
proactive with my diabetes.

> If the majority of people who
> are pro-active took their doctors' advice literally we would
> be seeing far more complications amongst us.

To borrow your words: "Just because you say it doesn't make it true."
You have had a couple of bad GP's so you damn them all. Your slice of
life doesn't necessarily mean everyone's is like that.

>Most GP advice
> is for the brain-dead and the potential non-compliants (who
> are deemed non-compliant before the doctor even gets to
> speak to them).

Your opinion.

>I don't expect any GP to have more than a
> passing knowledege of the many illnesses they see every day,
> but I do expect them to have the ability to take their ego
> hats off and direct a person to a specialist instead of
> trying to treat something outside their scope by themselves.

Generalization. My GP refers to specialists all the time.

> My GP was a good 4 years behind with prescribing ACE
> medication to diabetics.

So you think that means ALL are like that? For someone who complains
whenever I go near a Type 2 thread you sure do speak a lot in
generalizations for the whole world from your little corner of
Australia.

>And that is just the tip of the
> iceberg with him. I pity his patients who had never had any
> contact with an endo like I was fortunate enough to have
> had.

Maybe others found an endo like you did.

> If I had heart problems I would fully expect to be referred
> to a cardiologist, if cancer then an oncologist. Why do GP's
> think they are God and able to effectively advise and treat
> a multi-faceted disease like type 2 diabetes?

Who are you speaking about? Your GP? A couple of others? In
Australia? Again, you live in a microcosm of the world...doesn't mean
we all do.

>It's not hard
> at all to know more about diabetes than the average GP.

Diabetes is a complicated disease and involves the entire body. A GP
certainly knows more about the human body than you do. You only know
what you have discovered about yourself and anything you have read
about. You are still just a layman. Sometimes a little knowledge can
be dangerous. Let me know when you study and get any kind of medical
degree.

> Kurt would like to see everyone return to the Dark Ages if
> his insistence on following a doctor's guidelines are any
> indication.

Is that what you think Kurt would like to do? Probably doesn't matter
if I told you that you were wrong because you seem pretty rigid in your
opinions. I will never apologize to you or anyone else in here for
recommending that they work with their doctor first. In the Dark Ages
people had to diagnose and treat themselves...so it seems as you are
the one who longs for that.

> Endo, yes, GP not likely. Kurt's recommendations
> (and the ADA's for that matter) rarely recommend an endo or
> qualify the statement about "seeing you doctor".

In a word, you're "wrong."

>In fact
> today is the first time I remember seeing Kurt advise an
> endo over a GP.

Then open your eyes. I say that all the time. To newbies and oldies
alike. But it doesn't surprise me at all that it's the first time
you've seen it because you never really read what I have to say.
You're one of these people that wear blinders and when you see my name
you just expect it to be something that you will find offensive and
disagree with. Once and a while you will be pleasant with your replies
to me but I have seen too many times where you snap like a dry twig in
response to my posts that I realize that you are not all that stable.
It may work with your kids to stomp your foot and rule by emotional
outburst but it doesn't with me.

I have my opinions and you have yours. There is nothing you post that
I really object to and if you asked me my obejective opinion about you
I would say that I think you are very correct in your approach to your
personal diabetes. That you have found what you need to stay in
optimal control. And that you are a good example of what all people
with diabetes should do. I applaud you for that. Subjectively, I
think you have the Alan S. disease and have some kind of need to
strongarm others. You are very nice to them if they need help and you
offer help, but look out if they disagree with your advice.

So it goes...

Kurt

On 10 Dec 2006 00:27:52 -0800, "Kurt"
<kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Ozgirl wrote:
>> Alan S wrote:
>> > On 9 Dec 2006 18:41:12 -0800, "Kurt"
>> > <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>When it comes to diabetes, I trust my Endocrinologist who
>> understands
>> >>diabetes and understands my personal needs. When it comes
>> to other
>> >>general problems that are not diabetic related, I trust my
>> GP. If I
>> >>have a problem that is not general in nature then I seek
>> out a
>> >>specialist. As a diabetic, I understand the importance of
>> learning as
>> >>much as I can about my disease so that I can make
>> intelligent choices
>> >>with the medical team that I do trust. I don't have all
>> the
>> >>answers...hell, I don't even have all of the questions. I
>> never mind
>> >>paying for quality medical care because there are so many
>> costs that
>> >>doctors must incur just to stay in practice.
>> >>
>> > Why are you here?
>>
>> To bitch and moan about people who take a pro-active stance
>> with their diabetes treatment.
>
>Then I would be bitching and moaning about myself because I'm very
>proactive with my diabetes.
>
>> If the majority of people who
>> are pro-active took their doctors' advice literally we would
>> be seeing far more complications amongst us.
>
>To borrow your words: "Just because you say it doesn't make it true."
>You have had a couple of bad GP's so you damn them all. Your slice of
>life doesn't necessarily mean everyone's is like that.
>
>>Most GP advice
>> is for the brain-dead and the potential non-compliants (who
>> are deemed non-compliant before the doctor even gets to
>> speak to them).
>
>Your opinion.
>
>>I don't expect any GP to have more than a
>> passing knowledege of the many illnesses they see every day,
>> but I do expect them to have the ability to take their ego
>> hats off and direct a person to a specialist instead of
>> trying to treat something outside their scope by themselves.
>
>Generalization. My GP refers to specialists all the time.
>
>> My GP was a good 4 years behind with prescribing ACE
>> medication to diabetics.
>
>So you think that means ALL are like that? For someone who complains
>whenever I go near a Type 2 thread you sure do speak a lot in
>generalizations for the whole world from your little corner of
>Australia.
>
>>And that is just the tip of the
>> iceberg with him. I pity his patients who had never had any
>> contact with an endo like I was fortunate enough to have
>> had.
>
>Maybe others found an endo like you did.
>
>> If I had heart problems I would fully expect to be referred
>> to a cardiologist, if cancer then an oncologist. Why do GP's
>> think they are God and able to effectively advise and treat
>> a multi-faceted disease like type 2 diabetes?
>
>Who are you speaking about? Your GP? A couple of others? In
>Australia? Again, you live in a microcosm of the world...doesn't mean
>we all do.
>
>>It's not hard
>> at all to know more about diabetes than the average GP.
>
>Diabetes is a complicated disease and involves the entire body. A GP
>certainly knows more about the human body than you do. You only know
>what you have discovered about yourself and anything you have read
>about. You are still just a layman. Sometimes a little knowledge can
>be dangerous. Let me know when you study and get any kind of medical
>degree.
>
>> Kurt would like to see everyone return to the Dark Ages if
>> his insistence on following a doctor's guidelines are any
>> indication.
>
>Is that what you think Kurt would like to do? Probably doesn't matter
>if I told you that you were wrong because you seem pretty rigid in your
>opinions. I will never apologize to you or anyone else in here for
>recommending that they work with their doctor first. In the Dark Ages
>people had to diagnose and treat themselves...so it seems as you are
>the one who longs for that.
>
>> Endo, yes, GP not likely. Kurt's recommendations
>> (and the ADA's for that matter) rarely recommend an endo or
>> qualify the statement about "seeing you doctor".
>
>In a word, you're "wrong."
>
>>In fact
>> today is the first time I remember seeing Kurt advise an
>> endo over a GP.
>
>Then open your eyes. I say that all the time. To newbies and oldies
>alike. But it doesn't surprise me at all that it's the first time
>you've seen it because you never really read what I have to say.
>You're one of these people that wear blinders and when you see my name
>you just expect it to be something that you will find offensive and
>disagree with. Once and a while you will be pleasant with your replies
>to me but I have seen too many times where you snap like a dry twig in
>response to my posts that I realize that you are not all that stable.
>It may work with your kids to stomp your foot and rule by emotional
>outburst but it doesn't with me.
>
>I have my opinions and you have yours. There is nothing you post that
>I really object to and if you asked me my obejective opinion about you
>I would say that I think you are very correct in your approach to your
>personal diabetes. That you have found what you need to stay in
>optimal control. And that you are a good example of what all people
>with diabetes should do. I applaud you for that. Subjectively, I
>think you have the Alan S. disease and have some kind of need to
>strongarm others. You are very nice to them if they need help and you
>offer help, but look out if they disagree with your advice.
>
>So it goes...
>
>Kurt

Kurt

It has taken me a long time to realise what a piece of
oozing slime your really are. I was naive enough to treat
you with courtesy a while back, when you were claiming to be
the voice of reason ready to approach the ADA. You are
nothing but a windbag, hot air without substance. A small
and pathetic person. Who, exactly, have you helped by your
presence here? Not even yourself.

You know bugger-all about type 2. Yet you're ready to cavil
and complain to all and sundry about opinions here that you
know nothing about and will never experience nor learn
about.

I know, personally and closely, at least four people who
have received poor or even injurious advice from their
medical practitioners for diabetes management. One has died.
Practitioners who gave that advice in good faith based on
guidelines from "authorities".

Can you find a single person of the thousands who have come
to this newsgroup over it's existence who has actually
suffered detriment to their health from advice received
here? Apart, of course, from the crap you've spewed.

Goodbye Kurt. When I return after the Christmas break, if I
return rather than concentrate on other things like
blogging, I sincerely hope you will be gone. But it's a
forlorn hope. You need the stage, don't you?

Well, for the next two months, it will be all yours. Enjoy
it.

Alan, T2, Australia.

wait for it...wait for it...
now, here's Tom:
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Epidaurus

Alan S wrote:
> Kurt
>
> It has taken me a long time to realise what a piece of
> oozing slime your really are.

You've realized that many times before. It usually goes like
this...you disagree with something I say and then chastise me for it, I
respond with the same attitude you give me, then you throw a hissy fit
and say things like "I'm sending you to my twit file." Followed by a
lecture on how vile I am and how you have tried so hard to set me
straight.

>I was naive enough to treat
> you with courtesy a while back, when you were claiming to be
> the voice of reason ready to approach the ADA.

I created the thread to gather criticism and ideas for the ADA because
I got tired of people like you making malicious comments about them
here. Any "claim" I made I backed up by sending the thread to them,
without editing.

>You are
> nothing but a windbag, hot air without substance. A small
> and pathetic person.

You're projecting, Alan.

>Who, exactly, have you helped by your
> presence here? Not even yourself.

Helped? What does that mean, Alan? Do you see yourself the savior of
diabetic souls by posting your blog and amateur findings, encouraging
people to listen to you over their doctors? I don't pretend to "help"
anyone with their diabetes because I don't know them and what they
individually need. I don't give medical advice here, but I do post
some links from people who know more than I, I offer my personal story
for anyone who wants to listen, and from time to time I offer a
supportive word when I can truly be sincere about it. There have been
times when people have thanked me for what I have to say but unlike you
that is not why I am here. Perhaps the bes thing I have, and can, do
is to offer an alternative view to doctor bashing that goes on here.
You seem to have a real problem with anyone who does not believe and
offer what you believe and offer.

> You know bugger-all about type 2.

Never claimed to. Nor would I give specific medical advice about Type
1 diabetes. Your problem is that you claim to know bugger all about
diabetes.

>Yet you're ready to cavil
> and complain to all and sundry about opinions here that you
> know nothing about and will never experience nor learn
> about.

That's how you see it. I like to think of it as suggesting that others
listen to their doctor, and if what they are hearing doesn't make sense
to go seek out a doctor that does. I also am pretty consistant with
suggesting that others not place their diabetes care solely in the
hands of strangers in a newsgroup. I have learned much because of the
stories I hear from many posters in here that have prodded me to go
looking in areas I had not considered. But I have learned nothing from
heavy handed posters who say "this is how it is because I say so."

> I know, personally and closely, at least four people who
> have received poor or even injurious advice from their
> medical practitioners for diabetes management.

And based on that you hold all doctors responsible?

>One has died.

It saddens me to think that anyone with diabetes died because of bad
advice they got from their doctor.

> Practitioners who gave that advice in good faith based on
> guidelines from "authorities".

So you say.

> Can you find a single person of the thousands who have come
> to this newsgroup over it's existence who has actually
> suffered detriment to their health from advice received
> here?

I don't know the thousands you speak of. Neither do you. Seems like
the people who have been posting here for many years are a much smaller
number and they seem to already have their minds made up about how to
deal with diabetes. They don't seek advice, they only give it. Many
people who have come and gone might have realized that this place is a
good place to hear other anectdotal stories but when it comes to
someone who should be advising them they turn to their doctors.

>Apart, of course, from the crap you've spewed.

Of course you see my words as spewing crap...because I usually don't
agree with you.

> Goodbye Kurt. When I return after the Christmas break, if I
> return rather than concentrate on other things like
> blogging, I sincerely hope you will be gone.

Yeah, whatever.

>But it's a
> forlorn hope.

You never know. Your forlorn hope may just come true.

>You need the stage, don't you?

This is the most telling thing you have to say. You see this group as
a stage, I don't.

> Well, for the next two months, it will be all yours. Enjoy
> it.

No, for two months it will be for anyone who wants to post here.
That's how these newsgroups work. I'm just another poster here. Not
having you following me around playing den mother might make it more
enjoyable, but it doesn't really matter. I just don't have the
emotional attachment to this place that you seem to, not do I consider
it a stage.

> Alan, T2, Australia.
>
> wait for it...wait for it...
> now, here's Tom:

You sure have a lot of issues, don't you.

Kurt

Kurt wrote:
> Ozgirl wrote:
>> Alan S wrote:
>> > On 9 Dec 2006 18:41:12 -0800, "Kurt"
>> > <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>When it comes to diabetes, I trust my Endocrinologist
who
>> >>understands diabetes and understands my personal needs.
When it
>> >>comes
>> to other
>> >>general problems that are not diabetic related, I trust
my
>> GP. If I
>> >>have a problem that is not general in nature then I
seek
>> out a
>> >>specialist. As a diabetic, I understand the importance
of
>> >>learning as much as I can about my disease so that I
can make
>> intelligent choices
>> >>with the medical team that I do trust. I don't have
all
>> the
>> >>answers...hell, I don't even have all of the questions.
I
>> never mind
>> >>paying for quality medical care because there are so
many
>> costs that
>> >>doctors must incur just to stay in practice.
>> >>
>> > Why are you here?
>>
>> To bitch and moan about people who take a pro-active
stance
>> with their diabetes treatment.
>
> Then I would be bitching and moaning about myself because
I'm very
> proactive with my diabetes.
>
>> If the majority of people who
>> are pro-active took their doctors' advice literally we
would
>> be seeing far more complications amongst us.
>
> To borrow your words: "Just because you say it doesn't
make it true."
> You have had a couple of bad GP's so you damn them all.
Your slice of
> life doesn't necessarily mean everyone's is like that.

If you paid attention to the groups you would notice that it
is not just me who has had advice that is seriously lacking
from GP's, you are in a minority, a very small minority when
it comes to so called good doctors. It is quite a slur to
keep bringing up my corner of Australia, the problem is
world-wide, but as you have a very bad habit of not noticing
the truths around you when it comes to the groups then I am
not surprised by your comments.

Everyone is trying to play doctor, everyone gives medical
advice, no one but me has hopeless doctors and so it goes
on. But, even when the truth of what people are saying is
put in your face you still pretend that you are seeing
something different. You are one weird person. But there is
no point asking you to prove what you are saying, you never
do, you just keep repeating the lies over and over with no
proof. I am still wondering why you told someone when you
first arrived here that you were a type 2 on diet and
exercise.

>>Most GP advice
>> is for the brain-dead and the potential non-compliants
(who
>> are deemed non-compliant before the doctor even gets to
>> speak to them).
>
> Your opinion.
>
>>I don't expect any GP to have more than a
>> passing knowledege of the many illnesses they see every
day,
>> but I do expect them to have the ability to take their
ego
>> hats off and direct a person to a specialist instead of
>> trying to treat something outside their scope by
themselves.
>
> Generalization. My GP refers to specialists all the time.

Aren't you the lucky one, just like me but there are many
that aren't that lucky. Just becasue you have a good
experience doesn't mean that everyone else gets the same
treatment.


>>It's not hard
>> at all to know more about diabetes than the average GP.
>
> Diabetes is a complicated disease and involves the entire
body. A GP
> certainly knows more about the human body than you do.

The average GP knows squat about diabetes. They have been
provided with certain guidelines and a bunch of drugs.

Let me know when you study and get any kind of medical
> degree.

Having a medical degree doesn't improve the knowledge of
most GP's regarding diabetes.

>> Kurt would like to see everyone return to the Dark Ages
if
>> his insistence on following a doctor's guidelines are any
>> indication.
>
> Is that what you think Kurt would like to do? Probably
doesn't matter
> if I told you that you were wrong because you seem pretty
rigid in
> your opinions. I will never apologize to you or anyone
else in here
> for recommending that they work with their doctor first.
In the Dark
> Ages people had to diagnose and treat themselves...so it
seems as you
> are the one who longs for that.

In the dark ages we didn't have the same access to knowledge
that we have now. Relying solely upon a person who has a
limited education in diabetes is no substitute for
researching the disease yourself (and the average newly
diagnosed diabetic does not automatically get referred to an
endo, some long term diabetics don't even know what one is).
Just because a person didn't go to medical school doesn't
mean they lack the capacity to learn. Even you have learned
a lot yourself without your doctors' help.

Once and a while you will be pleasant with your
> replies to me but I have seen too many times where you
snap like a
> dry twig in response to my posts that I realize that you
are not all
> that stable.

My responses are individual.

It may work with your kids to stomp your foot and rule
> by emotional outburst but it doesn't with me.

I gather you don't have children. I also presume you haven't
been a fly on the wall in my house.

> I have my opinions and you have yours. There is nothing
you post that
> I really object to and if you asked me my obejective
opinion about you
> I would say that I think you are very correct in your
approach to your
> personal diabetes. That you have found what you need to
stay in
> optimal control. And that you are a good example of what
all people
> with diabetes should do. I applaud you for that.
Subjectively, I
> think you have the Alan S. disease and have some kind of
need to
> strongarm others. You are very nice to them if they need
help and you
> offer help, but look out if they disagree with your
advice.

I don't like bullshit, I don't like the way you lie to
newbies.

"Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165739272.080815.283400@80g2000cwy.googlegro ups.com...
>
> To borrow your words: "Just because you say it doesn't make it true."
> You have had a couple of bad GP's so you damn them all. Your slice of
> life doesn't necessarily mean everyone's is like that.

Have a google. We fairly regularly get someone who does a poll on GP
experience, good or bad. The last one might have been a year ago? There's
usually a few people who struck lucky, but most people have pretty dire PCP
experiences. In the UK, and I suspect Australia and possibly Canada too, T2s
don't routinely get to see an endo.

My GP has changed his views on treatment of diabetes radically since he's
observed my success, and that of his father, who also believes in
test,test,test against the doc's advice. That is, incidentally, the 4th doc
who had a shot at my hypothyroidism and diabetes, both straight and
gestational; it wasn't until I started ignoring GPs and doing my own
research that I got control of my health. I bitterly wish that I'd done so
before my two untreated GD pregnancies worsened my kids' chances.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
100ug Thyroxine
95/72/72Kg

The trick is to only have two. They do taste good and it would be easy
to overdo them, but I don't. I like to use two of those little cans of
spicy V-8 or Snap-E-Tom. Hope you're having a good weekend Kurt, even
though the party was boring. :-)

--
Cheri

Kurt wrote in message
<1165738247.816811.278050@16g2000cwy.googlegroups. com>...
>$132.00...mine charges twice as much. I swear they have a pipeline to
>my bank and they base their fee on how much money I have. Bastards!
>
>Cheri, I just returned from a very boring party and am having a beer
>right now, I just might chase it with some tomato juice in your honor!
>-
>
>Best,
>Kurt
>
>
>Cheri wrote:
>> I trust them as much as a doctor with a search engine. The worst part
of
>> these newsgroups are those that discount everything that is said,
just
>> because it's said on a newsgroup. The best part of these newsgroups,
is
>> that they are living it, and not charging you $132.00 a visit to tell
>> you...I don't know.
>> --
>> Cheri
>>
>> Kurt wrote in message
>>
>> <1165718472.604341.89340@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.c om>...
>> >What I don't trust are people who think they are diabetes experts
>> >because they have a computer and have learned how to use a search
>> >engine. The best part of these newsgroups is it provides a forum on
>> >which many people can share stories about how they personally deal
with
>> >this insidious disease. The worst part of these newsgroups is that
it
>> >contains amateurs who are dispensing medical advice and have cobbled
>> >together enough "cites" to push their agenda.
>> >
>> >Kurt
>> >
>

On 9 Dec 2006 18:41:12 -0800, "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>guy wrote:
>> With a long history in use of docs, I do not trust any of them without
>> qualification.
>>
>> I think I can "assume" that there is many variation in the
>> syndrome we call diabetes.
>>
>> I had to get busy and dig for information when the
>> complication became severe. Too much of
>> my good information came from MHD.
>>
>> If you want quick simple answers you simply stick with
>> a doc.
>>
>> That did not work for me. I still search several times
>> a week..
>>
>> I feel we are still weak in information and understanding.
>>
>> Who in the hell is smart enough to have all of the answers
>> All seem to fall short in the long term.
>>
>> I do have other problems and the docs are falling short.
>> But the bills do increase.
>>
>> In my opinion, We do fall short on ther subject of diabetes.
>> We need to quit bragging and childish criticism and grab
>> all of the collective knowledge. We will not do that by being
>> arrogant at the teen level.
>>
>> Diabetes will eat your lunch if you are wrong. Be very careful
>> in offering advice not based on firm information or
>> principles. Qualify what you post for others to read
>
>When it comes to diabetes, I trust my Endocrinologist who understands
>diabetes and understands my personal needs. When it comes to other
>general problems that are not diabetic related, I trust my GP. If I
>have a problem that is not general in nature then I seek out a
>specialist. As a diabetic, I understand the importance of learning as
>much as I can about my disease so that I can make intelligent choices
>with the medical team that I do trust. I don't have all the
>answers...hell, I don't even have all of the questions. I never mind
>paying for quality medical care because there are so many costs that
>doctors must incur just to stay in practice.
>
>What I don't trust are people who think they are diabetes experts
>because they have a computer and have learned how to use a search
>engine. The best part of these newsgroups is it provides a forum on
>which many people can share stories about how they personally deal with
>this insidious disease. The worst part of these newsgroups is that it
>contains amateurs who are dispensing medical advice and have cobbled
>together enough "cites" to push their agenda.
>

I see where the medical professionals have too many shortcomings. If
you have a medical need or problem, first research it on the Internet
before asking a medical person. This will give you a good reference
point to start from. I've asked doctors a lot of questions to only
hear - I don't know. Or been told some bullshit answer where common
sense told me the doc was just pulling the answer out of his/her butt.
Modern health care is more of a business where the bottom line is more
important than what is best for the patient. The internet and
newsgroups are just another source of medical information. Use each
per your own desire.

Kurt wrote:
> Alan S wrote:
> > On 9 Dec 2006 18:41:12 -0800, "Kurt"
> > <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >guy wrote:
> > >> With a long history in use of docs, I do not trust any of them without
> > >> qualification.
> > >>
> > >> I think I can "assume" that there is many variation in the
> > >> syndrome we call diabetes.
> > >>
> > >> I had to get busy and dig for information when the
> > >> complication became severe. Too much of
> > >> my good information came from MHD.
> > >>
> > >> If you want quick simple answers you simply stick with
> > >> a doc.
> > >>
> > >> That did not work for me. I still search several times
> > >> a week..
> > >>
> > >> I feel we are still weak in information and understanding.
> > >>
> > >> Who in the hell is smart enough to have all of the answers
> > >> All seem to fall short in the long term.
> > >>
> > >> I do have other problems and the docs are falling short.
> > >> But the bills do increase.
> > >>
> > >> In my opinion, We do fall short on ther subject of diabetes.
> > >> We need to quit bragging and childish criticism and grab
> > >> all of the collective knowledge. We will not do that by being
> > >> arrogant at the teen level.
> > >>
> > >> Diabetes will eat your lunch if you are wrong. Be very careful
> > >> in offering advice not based on firm information or
> > >> principles. Qualify what you post for others to read
> > >
> > >When it comes to diabetes, I trust my Endocrinologist who understands
> > >diabetes and understands my personal needs. When it comes to other
> > >general problems that are not diabetic related, I trust my GP. If I
> > >have a problem that is not general in nature then I seek out a
> > >specialist. As a diabetic, I understand the importance of learning as
> > >much as I can about my disease so that I can make intelligent choices
> > >with the medical team that I do trust. I don't have all the
> > >answers...hell, I don't even have all of the questions. I never mind
> > >paying for quality medical care because there are so many costs that
> > >doctors must incur just to stay in practice.
> > >
> > Why are you here?
> >
> > >What I don't trust are people who think they are diabetes experts
> > >because they have a computer and have learned how to use a search
> > >engine. The best part of these newsgroups is it provides a forum on
> > >which many people can share stories about how they personally deal with
> > >this insidious disease. The worst part of these newsgroups is that it
> > >contains amateurs who are dispensing medical advice and have cobbled
> > >together enough "cites" to push their agenda.
> > >
> > >Kurt
> >
> > Why are you here?
>
> Well, I know why YOU are here and happily I say, "it ain't the same
> reason."
>
> I'm here for several reasons but unlike you it does not give my life
> meaning, nor do I even consider it an important part of my day. Like
> most, not you, who post on newsgroups I do so because there is a point
> of interest I share with the people who have come together to share
> words. In this case, it's diabetes. Since I have been a diabetic for
> over 20 years I have something in common with many people here. I
> enjoy reading many of the posters here and get something out of what
> they have to say.
>
> But, in your case, Alan, I think I also serve a purpose. I provide an
> anal, obsessive, passive-aggressive, net-nanny like yourself someone to
> critcize and try to play den mother to at every turn. Without me, you
> are nothing.

Well said.
Except for your last sentence.
Even you can't put a dent into his nothingness :-(

Bob

Alan S whined about Kurt:

> It has taken me a long time to realise what a piece of
> oozing slime your really are. I was naive enough to treat
> you with courtesy a while back,

Cut the crap. The only ones you "treat with courtesy" are folks who
suck up to you. Anyone disagrees with your cut'n paste "knowledge" and
you get all bent out of shape. Which of course is a hell of a way to
"compliment" your body :-)


when you were claiming to be
> the voice of reason ready to approach the ADA. You are
> nothing but a windbag, hot air without substance. A small
> and pathetic person. Who, exactly, have you helped by your
> presence here? Not even yourself.
>
> You know bugger-all about type 2. Yet you're ready to cavil
> and complain to all and sundry about opinions here that you
> know nothing about and will never experience nor learn
> about.
>
> I know, personally and closely, at least four people who
> have received poor or even injurious advice from their
> medical practitioners for diabetes management. One has died.
> Practitioners who gave that advice in good faith based on
> guidelines from "authorities".
>
> Can you find a single person of the thousands who have come
> to this newsgroup over it's existence who has actually
> suffered detriment to their health from advice received
> here? Apart, of course, from the crap you've spewed.
>
> Goodbye Kurt. When I return after the Christmas break, if I
> return rather than concentrate on other things

Promises, promises....

Bob

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:54:52 +1100, Alan S
<loralgtweightandcarbs@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 04:17:57 GMT, guys@consolidated.neet
>(guy) wrote:
>
>>
>>I do have less trust in doctors than most with good
>>reason. There is no argument over the quality
>>and expense of some docs. It is sad situation.
>>
>>But I will take them over some ego post and
>>I trust some docs but not all.
>
>Guy, you left in the links with some pretty nasty stuff
>about me. If you have a problem with me - say so directly
>please. If not, say that too please.
>
>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
>d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
>Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Alan I was never concerned about you..I prefer to
avoid conflict of any personal nature. Diabetes is
something to DISCUSS and argument involving
a personal nature I do not like.

Open discussions are give and take..The
exception is a irrational disruptive
post

We do have to drop personal offenses and
try to find a few answers.

In certain areas I do have a bit of experience
and post things some do not like.

I do go the trouble to specify I am no expert
on diabetes. I was a expert in scientific
instrumentation.

I am an old sick BUM of not much value.
A burden to my wife.

I want the group to serve diabetrics,and not be
a mess of personal conflicts which are of no value.



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"Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165744446.502102.99400@j72g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
:
: Alan S wrote:
: > Kurt
: >
:
: Helped? What does that mean, Alan? Do you see yourself the savior of
: diabetic souls by posting your blog and amateur findings, encouraging
: people to listen to you over their doctors?

I'm NOT siding with anyone.. but I think you've pegged it well Kurt.. How
*I* read many of his posts.. I've often wondered who died and made him
ASD God. Of course he'll deny it.. but then again.. what bully owns up to
their actions..

: You sure have a lot of issues, don't you.

me thinks so..
:
: Kurt
: