Results 1 to 15 of 15
what are NON-diabetic numbers
  1. #1
    Greg Guest

    Default what are NON-diabetic numbers

    OK, so it has been about 3 weeks since I have learned that I am
    pre-diabetic. I have been trying to absorb as much information as
    possible about this disease, and how to slow it down. My question comes
    from the fact that I have found so many varying numbers to determine
    whats ok and whats bad. 126 is the diabetic cutoff, one hour numbers
    and two hour numbers vary depending on what book or site you read. It
    almost seems if you pick the wrong place to read from the start and
    look no further, you will determine that you dont have a problem and
    not address it. Some information says just go by your A1C, some say
    only 2 hour numbers matter. My Dr. feels just fasting numbers are all I
    need to look at. I am trying to establish a blend of all the suggested
    test regimes, but it gets a bit daunting at times and I loose focus. So
    what if I look at things this way, what would the numbers be at
    different times for a person that is NOT diabetic. Fasting, one and two
    hour, after a bowl of pasta etc...

    Anyone?


    Greg


  2. #2
    Susan Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers

    x-no-archive: yes

    Greg wrote:
    > OK, so it has been about 3 weeks since I have learned that I am
    > pre-diabetic. I have been trying to absorb as much information as
    > possible about this disease, and how to slow it down. My question comes
    > from the fact that I have found so many varying numbers to determine
    > whats ok and whats bad. 126 is the diabetic cutoff, one hour numbers
    > and two hour numbers vary depending on what book or site you read. It
    > almost seems if you pick the wrong place to read from the start and
    > look no further, you will determine that you dont have a problem and
    > not address it. Some information says just go by your A1C, some say
    > only 2 hour numbers matter. My Dr. feels just fasting numbers are all I
    > need to look at. I am trying to establish a blend of all the suggested
    > test regimes, but it gets a bit daunting at times and I loose focus. So
    > what if I look at things this way, what would the numbers be at
    > different times for a person that is NOT diabetic. Fasting, one and two
    > hour, after a bowl of pasta etc...
    >
    > Anyone?
    >
    >
    > Greg
    >


    Greg, rather than distinguishing between what is officially diagnostic
    for DM and what isn't, maybe think about focusing on what numbers
    produce damage and complications. These happen at much lower numbers
    than those that meet the diagnostic criterion.

    Peripheral neuropathy, nephropathy, CVD all happen with IGT, what's
    called pre-diabetes. If "pre diabetes" has the same complications as
    DM, it stands to reason that the DM ranges are way too high to prevent them.

    Numbers between about 85-105 are ideal. Under 140 at all times is
    important for avoiding permanent cellular damage, whether those numbers
    are diabetic or not.

    Susan

  3. #3
    Chrome Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers

    Greg wrote:
    > OK, so it has been about 3 weeks since I have learned that I

    am
    > pre-diabetic. I have been trying to absorb as much information

    as
    > possible about this disease, and how to slow it down.


    Get your blood pressure down. Lower your LDL and other
    cholesterol numbers. Lose weight if you need to. Reduce salt in
    your diet. Keep saturated fat at 20 grams or less. Try to eat
    low(er) glycemic index foods. Get your doc to start you on 500mg
    of metformin.

    http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm

    Normal A1c for people without diabetes is 4.0-6.0. The ADA
    recommends below 7.0 and an endo group recommends less than 6.5
    for diabetics. Personally I think anything above 6 is too high
    but I realize it's hard for some to stay that low.



    C


    My question
    > comes from the fact that I have found so many varying numbers

    to
    > determine whats ok and whats bad. 126 is the diabetic cutoff,

    one
    > hour numbers and two hour numbers vary depending on what book

    or
    > site you read. It almost seems if you pick the wrong place to

    read
    > from the start and look no further, you will determine that

    you
    > dont have a problem and not address it. Some information says

    just
    > go by your A1C, some say only 2 hour numbers matter. My Dr.

    feels
    > just fasting numbers are all I need to look at. I am trying to
    > establish a blend of all the suggested test regimes, but it

    gets a
    > bit daunting at times and I loose focus. So what if I look at
    > things this way, what would the numbers be at different times

    for a
    > person that is NOT diabetic. Fasting, one and two hour, after

    a
    > bowl of pasta etc...
    >
    > Anyone?
    >
    >
    > Greg






  4. #4
    oldal4865 Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers


    Greg wrote in message
    <[email protected] com>...
    >OK, so it has been about 3 weeks . . . . So
    >what if I look at things this way, what would the numbers be at
    >different times for a person that is NOT diabetic. Fasting, one and two
    >hour, after a bowl of pasta etc...
    >
    >Anyone?
    >
    >
    >Greg
    >


    I have some numbers for non-diabetics. But first, a warning:

    Type 2 diabetes is a Progressive disease. In effect, that means that
    T2 beta cells die by apoptosis because of what might be considered
    "over-use", i.e. T2 "Progressively" lose the ability to make insulin.
    There are data which indicate that almost anything T2 do to reduce the
    amount of insulin they manufacture will slow the Progression.

    You have posted information which indicates that you have Type 2 diabetes
    genes. The "Progressive" remarks probably apply to you. No matter what
    kind of conclusion you draw from looking at non-diabetic numbers, the odds
    are that you would best be served by doing whatever you can to reduce the
    amount of insulin you manufacture. That means lose fat, gain muscle,
    exercise daily and restrict your carb intake.

    1. Non-diabetic response to a glucose tolerance test

    http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/201/300...maj/vol-162/is
    sue-7/pdf/pg993.pdf

    http://tinyurl.com/5zxzk

    75 gram of glucose on an empty, overnight fasting stomach

    Time 0 15 30 45 60 90 120
    Sugar 92 130 160 164 149 120 100

    Note that some experts discount any sugar reading in the first 30 minutes
    because normal person-to-person variability is just too high.

    2. Sugars after a 50-gram carb meal of French bread or rice or spaghetti
    or mashed potatoes on an empty stomach

    http://tinyurl.com/gxnme

    See Table 3 and Figure 3. These scientists saw a maximum rise
    of about 40 - 80 mg/dL (~2.2 - 4.4 mmol/L) at one hour .

    To be specific, they saw a 40 mg/dL rise at one hour after 50 gram
    (uncooked wt) of spaghetti on an empty stomach.

    Note that the rise was related to the rate of stomach emptying so the
    behavior of your particular stomach can move these numbers around. Tagamet
    or a proton pump inhibitor would tend to squash the curves.

    Regards
    Old Al










  5. #5
    ray Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers

    On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 05:41:05 -0800, Greg wrote:

    > OK, so it has been about 3 weeks since I have learned that I am
    > pre-diabetic. I have been trying to absorb as much information as
    > possible about this disease, and how to slow it down. My question comes
    > from the fact that I have found so many varying numbers to determine
    > whats ok and whats bad. 126 is the diabetic cutoff, one hour numbers
    > and two hour numbers vary depending on what book or site you read. It
    > almost seems if you pick the wrong place to read from the start and
    > look no further, you will determine that you dont have a problem and
    > not address it. Some information says just go by your A1C, some say
    > only 2 hour numbers matter. My Dr. feels just fasting numbers are all I
    > need to look at. I am trying to establish a blend of all the suggested
    > test regimes, but it gets a bit daunting at times and I loose focus. So
    > what if I look at things this way, what would the numbers be at
    > different times for a person that is NOT diabetic. Fasting, one and two
    > hour, after a bowl of pasta etc...
    >
    > Anyone?
    >
    >
    > Greg


    For a healthy non-diabetic it's 83 +- 3 except after heavy carb intake.
    Suggest you read "Diabetes for Dummies" and Dr. Bernstein's "Diabetes
    Solution" if you haven't already - should be at your local library. These
    are certainly not gospel, but should help you organize your thoughts about
    the situation. What are your numbers? A1C for healthy non-diabetics, I
    believe, run in the 4.2-4.5 range. I'm not happy with anything over 5.5 -
    not really happy at 5.0-5.5, but I can live with it for now.


  6. #6
    Slap Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers


    "oldal4865" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    >
    > Type 2 diabetes is a Progressive disease. In effect, that means that
    > T2 beta cells die by apoptosis because of what might be considered
    > "over-use", i.e. T2 "Progressively" lose the ability to make insulin.
    > There are data which indicate that almost anything T2 do to reduce the
    > amount of insulin they manufacture will slow the Progression.
    >
    > You have posted information which indicates that you have Type 2 diabetes
    > genes. The "Progressive" remarks probably apply to you. No matter

    what
    > kind of conclusion you draw from looking at non-diabetic numbers, the

    odds
    > are that you would best be served by doing whatever you can to reduce the
    > amount of insulin you manufacture. That means lose fat, gain muscle,
    > exercise daily and restrict your carb intake.
    >
    > 1. Non-diabetic response to a glucose tolerance test
    >
    >

    http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/201/300...maj/vol-162/is
    > sue-7/pdf/pg993.pdf
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/5zxzk
    >
    > 75 gram of glucose on an empty, overnight fasting stomach
    >
    > Time 0 15 30 45 60 90

    120
    > Sugar 92 130 160 164 149 120 100
    >
    > Note that some experts discount any sugar reading in the first 30 minutes
    > because normal person-to-person variability is just too high.
    >
    > 2. Sugars after a 50-gram carb meal of French bread or rice or spaghetti
    > or mashed potatoes on an empty stomach
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/gxnme
    >
    > See Table 3 and Figure 3. These scientists saw a maximum rise
    > of about 40 - 80 mg/dL (~2.2 - 4.4 mmol/L) at one hour .
    >
    > To be specific, they saw a 40 mg/dL rise at one hour after 50 gram
    > (uncooked wt) of spaghetti on an empty stomach.
    >
    > Note that the rise was related to the rate of stomach emptying so the
    > behavior of your particular stomach can move these numbers around.

    Tagamet
    > or a proton pump inhibitor would tend to squash the curves.
    >
    > Regards
    > Old Al
    >


    I always read posts by oldal4865. Save many of them.

    You by any chance have a web page with all this stuff you know about
    diabetes?

    --
    Dave T2, Canada



  7. #7
    Greg Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers

    Ray asked: What are your numbers?

    Here are my last two:

    Jan 31 A1C - 6.3
    Nov 1 A1C - 5.8

    Low, but still not good


  8. #8
    oldal4865 Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers


    Slap wrote in message <5ap2h.248033$R63.216274@pd7urf1no>...
    >
    >"oldal4865" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]..
    >>
    >> Type 2 diabetes is a Progressive disease. In effect, that means

    that
    >> T2 beta cells die by apoptosis because of what might be considered
    >> "over-use", i.e. T2 "Progressively" lose the ability to make insulin.
    >> There are data which indicate that almost anything T2 do to reduce the
    >> amount of insulin they manufacture will slow the Progression.
    >>
    >> You have posted information which indicates that you have Type 2 diabetes
    >> genes. The "Progressive" remarks probably apply to you. No matter

    >what
    >> kind of conclusion you draw from looking at non-diabetic numbers, the

    >odds
    >> are that you would best be served by doing whatever you can to reduce the
    >> amount of insulin you manufacture. That means lose fat, gain muscle,
    >> exercise daily and restrict your carb intake.
    >>
    >> 1. Non-diabetic response to a glucose tolerance test
    >>
    >>

    >http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/201/300...cmaj/vol-162/i

    s
    >> sue-7/pdf/pg993.pdf
    >>
    >> http://tinyurl.com/5zxzk
    >>
    >> 75 gram of glucose on an empty, overnight fasting stomach
    >>
    >> Time 0 15 30 45 60 90

    >120
    >> Sugar 92 130 160 164 149 120 100
    >>
    >> Note that some experts discount any sugar reading in the first 30 minutes
    >> because normal person-to-person variability is just too high.
    >>
    >> 2. Sugars after a 50-gram carb meal of French bread or rice or

    spaghetti
    >> or mashed potatoes on an empty stomach
    >>
    >> http://tinyurl.com/gxnme
    >>
    >> See Table 3 and Figure 3. These scientists saw a maximum rise
    >> of about 40 - 80 mg/dL (~2.2 - 4.4 mmol/L) at one hour .
    >>
    >> To be specific, they saw a 40 mg/dL rise at one hour after 50 gram
    >> (uncooked wt) of spaghetti on an empty stomach.
    >>
    >> Note that the rise was related to the rate of stomach emptying so the
    >> behavior of your particular stomach can move these numbers around.

    >Tagamet
    >> or a proton pump inhibitor would tend to squash the curves.
    >>
    >> Regards
    >> Old Al
    >>

    >
    >
    >You by any chance have a web page with all this stuff you know about
    >diabetes?
    >
    >--
    >Dave T2, Canada
    >


    Not a one; I just quote other folks' pages.

    By coincidence, that's about what I did best during my science career. .
    ..carrying the big brains' stuff to the Production folks.

    Regards
    Old Al



  9. #9
    Alan S Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers

    On 2 Nov 2006 05:41:05 -0800, "Greg" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >OK, so it has been about 3 weeks since I have learned that I am
    >pre-diabetic. I have been trying to absorb as much information as
    >possible about this disease, and how to slow it down. My question comes
    >from the fact that I have found so many varying numbers to determine
    >whats ok and whats bad. 126 is the diabetic cutoff, one hour numbers
    >and two hour numbers vary depending on what book or site you read. It
    >almost seems if you pick the wrong place to read from the start and
    >look no further, you will determine that you dont have a problem and
    >not address it. Some information says just go by your A1C, some say
    >only 2 hour numbers matter. My Dr. feels just fasting numbers are all I
    >need to look at. I am trying to establish a blend of all the suggested
    >test regimes, but it gets a bit daunting at times and I loose focus. So
    >what if I look at things this way, what would the numbers be at
    >different times for a person that is NOT diabetic. Fasting, one and two
    >hour, after a bowl of pasta etc...
    >
    >Anyone?
    >
    >
    >Greg


    Hi Greg

    I wrote this only a couple of days ago on the ADA forum.
    Being lazy - I'm cut-and-pasting most of it:-) .

    It's a question that comes up regularly. This answer is
    mainly aimed at post-prandial numbers. And I know from a
    later post that your numbers are becoming pretty good - so
    I'm probably really talking to the lurkers.

    As you've read, and others have noted, there is disagreement
    among the major authorities on both the timing of
    post-prandial testing and the targets to aim for. The
    ADA(180), Joslin(160) and the AACE(140) all have quite
    different two-hour targets; additionally there has been very
    little research using one-hour tests, or testing to find the
    real timing of the peak BG excursion after meals in either
    diabetics or non-diabetics - the "spike".

    I look at it more simplistically. I tried to research what
    level was likely to cause me harm, when did it occur, and
    how to stay below it. Among many scientific books and
    articles I found some type 2 diabetics who had done the
    research before me. None of these people are doctors - just
    diabetics who believed that their life depended on their own
    efforts.

    This is a link to Jenny, who has several scientific
    references supporting her view that going over 140(7.8) at
    ANY time causes some harm:
    http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php

    This is a link to Derek Paice, a guy who decided to use
    himself as an experiment::
    http://www.mendosa.com/DiabetesAndDiet.pdf

    You can read his story here:
    http://www.mendosa.com/paice.htm

    Putting that together, there is another site that showed me
    how to test in a way that would find my peak time, and how
    to then use that information to improve the "spike". That is
    written by Jennifer and can be found at
    http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

    Here's Jennifer's opinion on what numbers to aim for, they
    are non-diabetic numbers in her opinion:

    FBG under 110
    One hour after meals under 140
    Two hours after meals under 120

    or for those, like me, in the mmol parts of the world:

    Fasting Under 6
    One hour after meals Under 8
    Two hours after meals Under 6.5

    I used those as targets when I started; once I achieved
    those I re-set them significantly lower.

    HTH

    Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
    d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
    --
    http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
    http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
    latest: Tuscany, Radicofani, Lake Bolsena

  10. #10
    Gantlet Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers


    "Alan S" <[email protected]> wrote in message > Hi Greg
    >
    > I wrote this only a couple of days ago on the ADA forum.
    > Being lazy - I'm cut-and-pasting most of it:-) .
    >
    > It's a question that comes up regularly. This answer is
    > mainly aimed at post-prandial numbers. And I know from a
    > later post that your numbers are becoming pretty good - so
    > I'm probably really talking to the lurkers.
    >
    > As you've read, and others have noted, there is disagreement
    > among the major authorities on both the timing of
    > post-prandial testing and the targets to aim for. The
    > ADA(180),


    for those that actual read and understand.
    A web page on the ADA web site does say

    Good control means getting as close to a normal (nondiabetic) blood glucose
    level as you safely can. Ideally, this means levels between 90 and 130 mg/dl
    before meals, and less than 180 two hours after starting a meal, with a
    glycated hemoglobin level less than 7 percent. The target number for
    glycated hemoglobin will vary depending on the type of test your doctor's
    laboratory uses.



    but what is says next is more important. ok ok i know many in here feel
    reading a book or
    a study on the internet is how you will find what numbers to shoot for.
    places that
    dont feel the need to play doctor on the internet will tell you something
    like this.

    In real life, you should set your goals with your doctor. Keeping a normal
    level all the time is not practical. And it's not needed to get results.
    Every bit you lower your blood glucose level helps to prevent complications.



    so you see.. that 180 does not really mean much. if you are newly diagnosed
    with a fbs of 300 does that mean
    you should be below 180 2 hours after your next meal? or how long will it
    take for your medications to kick in. there is so much more to it than any
    web site or book can tell. to bad arm chair doctors dont think that way.

    or by Anal S's new book on how to read a book and become an internet doctor
    and expert in anything over night.



    Tom


    Joslin(160) and the AACE(140) all have quite
    > different two-hour targets; additionally there has been very
    > little research using one-hour tests, or testing to find the
    > real timing of the peak BG excursion after meals in either
    > diabetics or non-diabetics - the "spike".
    >
    > I look at it more simplistically. I tried to research what
    > level was likely to cause me harm, when did it occur, and
    > how to stay below it. Among many scientific books and
    > articles I found some type 2 diabetics who had done the
    > research before me. None of these people are doctors - just
    > diabetics who believed that their life depended on their own
    > efforts.
    >
    > This is a link to Jenny, who has several scientific
    > references supporting her view that going over 140(7.8) at
    > ANY time causes some harm:
    > http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php
    >
    > This is a link to Derek Paice, a guy who decided to use
    > himself as an experiment::
    > http://www.mendosa.com/DiabetesAndDiet.pdf
    >
    > You can read his story here:
    > http://www.mendosa.com/paice.htm
    >
    > Putting that together, there is another site that showed me
    > how to test in a way that would find my peak time, and how
    > to then use that information to improve the "spike". That is
    > written by Jennifer and can be found at
    > http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm
    >
    > Here's Jennifer's opinion on what numbers to aim for, they
    > are non-diabetic numbers in her opinion:
    >
    > FBG under 110
    > One hour after meals under 140
    > Two hours after meals under 120
    >
    > or for those, like me, in the mmol parts of the world:
    >
    > Fasting Under 6
    > One hour after meals Under 8
    > Two hours after meals Under 6.5
    >
    > I used those as targets when I started; once I achieved
    > those I re-set them significantly lower.
    >
    > HTH
    >
    > Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
    > d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
    > Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
    > --
    > http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
    > http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
    > latest: Tuscany, Radicofani, Lake Bolsena




  11. #11
    Trinkwasser Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers

    On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:51:50 -0500, "oldal4865" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >Slap wrote in message <5ap2h.248033$R63.216274@pd7urf1no>...
    >>
    >>
    >>You by any chance have a web page with all this stuff you know about
    >>diabetes?



    > Not a one; I just quote other folks' pages.



    Maybe you should consider a new career in website building?

    >By coincidence, that's about what I did best during my science career. .
    >.carrying the big brains' stuff to the Production folks.


    <G> I sometimes wonder if I ever had an original thought in my life,
    mostly I pick other folks' brains and improvise around the themes . .
    ..

  12. #12
    oldal4865 Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers


    Trinkwasser wrote in message <[email protected]>...
    >On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:51:50 -0500, "oldal4865" <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>Slap wrote in message <5ap2h.248033$R63.216274@pd7urf1no>...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>You by any chance have a web page with all this stuff you know about
    >>>diabetes?

    >
    >
    >> Not a one; I just quote other folks' pages.

    >
    >
    >Maybe you should consider a new career in website building?
    >
    >>By coincidence, that's about what I did best during my science career. .
    >>.carrying the big brains' stuff to the Production folks.

    >
    ><G> I sometimes wonder if I ever had an original thought in my life,
    >mostly I pick other folks' brains and improvise around the themes . .
    >.




    ". . . .new career. . ."

    Nope! Retirement grows on one really fast, especially after 43 years in
    the work force. I use my wife's hand-me-down computers and don't even
    have a digital watch anymore.


    ". . . .pick other folks' brains and improvise around the themes . . ."

    That's a fascinating topic. Our whole group took "Creativity" testing
    instruments once. The scoring considered 180 points to be "Wildly
    off-the-wall" creative, and 0 points to be "Adaptable only". I
    scored 110, mildly on the "off-the-wall" side; some of our best Research
    people maxed out at 180; all of the Production folks were solidly below
    80, i.e. solidly in the "adaptable only".

    That's about the way it should work out. You give the conservative,
    adaptable-only folks control over 10,000 gallon reactors with contents that
    could blanket the city with fumes in 15 minutes if the polymerization ran
    away. You lock the "wildly-off-the-wall" folks in small laboratory rooms
    and throw money at them. Folks like me, in the middle, run the 1000
    gallon reactors and translate the off-the-wall stuff for the adaptable
    folks.

    For me, that meant among other things, giving training sessions in the
    Plant at Midnight on Saturday, and supervising scale ups on Saturday
    afternoons while the "wildly" folks were off playing golf. However, when
    the Company downsized 30%, the grim reaper** passed right by my office
    and collected some really bright Ph.D's.

    We had an Emergency Preparedness Planning session just before I retired.
    The Production supervisors and I made-up a work assignments list for all of
    the Research staff. We stuck the really creative folks into warehouse
    inventory and clean-up; we were afraid to let them near the dangerous stuff
    lest they start "getting creative"

    (**grim reaper: They actually told everybody to be in their office between
    2 and 4 on a certain afternoon because somebody would come down the hall
    firing people on the spot. Fired folks had to leave the premises
    immediately.

    My co-worker (the GD lady) was quietly going nuts awaiting the gruesome
    afternoon. I told my boss and he did something very clever and very nice.
    He couldn't tell her anything under peril of his own job. However, before
    the event, he scheduled an early Performance Review for her. . . to be
    conducted a week after the firings. That meant he expected her to still be
    there.)

    Regards
    Old Al



  13. #13
    Trinkwasser Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers

    On Sat, 4 Nov 2006 07:17:46 -0500, "oldal4865" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >Trinkwasser wrote in message <[email protected]>...
    >>On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:51:50 -0500, "oldal4865" <[email protected]>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>Slap wrote in message <5ap2h.248033$R63.216274@pd7urf1no>...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>You by any chance have a web page with all this stuff you know about
    >>>>diabetes?

    >>
    >>
    >>> Not a one; I just quote other folks' pages.

    >>
    >>
    >>Maybe you should consider a new career in website building?
    >>
    >>>By coincidence, that's about what I did best during my science career. .
    >>>.carrying the big brains' stuff to the Production folks.

    >>
    >><G> I sometimes wonder if I ever had an original thought in my life,
    >>mostly I pick other folks' brains and improvise around the themes . .
    >>.

    >
    >
    >
    >". . . .new career. . ."
    >
    >Nope! Retirement grows on one really fast, especially after 43 years in
    >the work force. I use my wife's hand-me-down computers and don't even
    >have a digital watch anymore.


    Yeah, I'm semi-retired due to having to do so much stuff for my
    mother. I'm just soooo far behind on everything, currently I've got
    nearly 2000 photographs I haven't even looked at let alone scanned
    manipulated or printed, and a couple of half-finished websites . . .
    how I used to work 45 hours *and* have a life, well I can't really
    remember now. Last year I was only about 1000 photos behind so I guess
    I'll never catch up. Really I need to do enough work to employ someone
    to be me . . .

    >". . . .pick other folks' brains and improvise around the themes . . ."
    >
    >That's a fascinating topic. Our whole group took "Creativity" testing
    >instruments once. The scoring considered 180 points to be "Wildly
    >off-the-wall" creative, and 0 points to be "Adaptable only". I
    >scored 110, mildly on the "off-the-wall" side; some of our best Research
    >people maxed out at 180; all of the Production folks were solidly below
    >80, i.e. solidly in the "adaptable only".
    >
    >That's about the way it should work out. You give the conservative,
    >adaptable-only folks control over 10,000 gallon reactors with contents that
    >could blanket the city with fumes in 15 minutes if the polymerization ran
    >away. You lock the "wildly-off-the-wall" folks in small laboratory rooms
    >and throw money at them. Folks like me, in the middle, run the 1000
    >gallon reactors and translate the off-the-wall stuff for the adaptable
    >folks.


    Well they can't all be telephone sanitisers.

    >For me, that meant among other things, giving training sessions in the
    >Plant at Midnight on Saturday, and supervising scale ups on Saturday
    >afternoons while the "wildly" folks were off playing golf. However, when
    >the Company downsized 30%, the grim reaper** passed right by my office
    >and collected some really bright Ph.D's.


    Yes it's always sad and rather surprising when that happens. I used to
    wish I could win the lottery and start a business, I knew exactly who
    I'd want to employ, most of the "rejects" from where I used to work.
    It was little recompense to see the firm change hands half a dozen
    times while in the hands of the Clueless Leaders and their yes-men. I
    think the Germans own them now unless they;ve been sold on again. And
    so many other businesses I either worked for or had dealings with (and
    in some cases was turned down for jobs at) have gone to the wall
    completely.

    I got interested in the history of engineering, in a way it was like
    the current "internet boom" the guys you now think of as kind of elder
    statesmen were once young lions and innovators, building bridges,
    combine harvesters, diesel engines and all that new fangled technology
    stuff. Only some of the firms they founded now have the same values
    "they said it couldn't be done so I did it"

    >We had an Emergency Preparedness Planning session just before I retired.
    >The Production supervisors and I made-up a work assignments list for all of
    >the Research staff. We stuck the really creative folks into warehouse
    >inventory and clean-up; we were afraid to let them near the dangerous stuff
    >lest they start "getting creative"
    >
    >(**grim reaper: They actually told everybody to be in their office between
    >2 and 4 on a certain afternoon because somebody would come down the hall
    >firing people on the spot. Fired folks had to leave the premises
    >immediately.


    Ours did it the other way round, let it be known long in advance that
    your card was marked in hopes you'd be motivated by the fear. Everyone
    who'd had more than one sick day in two years got a Verbal Warning
    (illegal as hell but "prove it") they pulled a thing called "creative
    dismissal" where you get the things you're good at taken away and
    given to someone else and replaced with more of the things you were
    bad at so they could "prove" your performance had fallen off for your
    next Annual Review, that saved them the redundancy money. (They get
    trained in this technique, it backfired when they pulled it on someone
    they'd trained to do it!)

    >My co-worker (the GD lady) was quietly going nuts awaiting the gruesome
    >afternoon. I told my boss and he did something very clever and very nice.
    >He couldn't tell her anything under peril of his own job. However, before
    >the event, he scheduled an early Performance Review for her. . . to be
    >conducted a week after the firings. That meant he expected her to still be
    >there.)


    Nice touch. I hope he was still there too!

  14. #14
    Jay Stootzmann Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers --- Refrences to look at

    There are several good places to start. I'd suggest:

    http://www.joslin.org/LearnAboutDiabetes_Index_home.asp be sure to check
    out all the links along the left side of the page like:

    http://www.joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_707.asp

    http://www.joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_709.asp

    and to answer your question about Goals for Diabetics and what non-diebetic
    numbers look like check:

    http://www.joslin.org/Beginners_guide_523.asp

    Be sure to check out their store and discussion board

    https://store.joslin.org/

    http://www.joslin.org/1863.asp

    "Trinkwasser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]..
    > On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:51:50 -0500, "oldal4865" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>Slap wrote in message <5ap2h.248033$R63.216274@pd7urf1no>...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>You by any chance have a web page with all this stuff you know about
    >>>diabetes?

    >




  15. #15
    [email protected] Guest

    Default Re: what are NON-diabetic numbers --- Refrences to look at

    ""and to answer your question about Goals for Diabetics and what
    non-diebetic numbers look like check:

    http://www.joslin.org/Beginners_guide_523.asp "

    Those numbers are very misleading. For example a "normal" post meal 2
    hour 140 is a worst case example. The great bulk of people never see
    such a number because most people don't often exceed 97/115 at one hour
    and are far below 100 at two hours. The "diabetic" post meal 160 means
    the 1 hour peak was very very high and damage is happening most likely.

    Like too many diabetic guidelines they are intended to encourage by
    giving worst case examples as goals so as not to discourage. Diabetics
    would be better served with real "normal" numbers as a goal which can
    and are being realized.


Similar Threads

  1. question for Non-diabectic numbers
    By Tony in forum alt.support.diabetes
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-08-2006, 10:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28