What we thought of the movie "Sicko"

Hello dear friends,

We went to see "Sicko" yesterday as planned. To us it is definitely a
MUST SEE movie. It will really make you wonder why the United States
has to be so far behind other nations on something as important as
health care. The is the only country where people are forced into
bankruptcy and lost their homes even if they have health insurance. It
is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
We have heard it said that doctors would leave medicine in droves if
we ever pass a universal health care plan in this country. Just wait
till you see the French general practice doctor who drives a new Audi
and owns a one million dollar three story house on his wages paid by
the government. Even if you are not a Michael Moore fan, if you
believe only half of what is said in the movie, we think you will
still believe you would be better off medically if you lived somewhere
else - even Cuba. Go see it yourself and take the time to think about
what you just saw.
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~


Americans killed in the occupation of Iraq as of July 29, 2007 is 3,651.
United Kingdom = 163 Other = 129.

How many more Americans must die to satisfy Bush's ego?
Let us all pray for Bush - God knows he needs it!

As of July 30, 2007 it has been 1552 days since Bush
while standing in front of the banner which was sent
to the ship by the White House saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
declared,"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our
allies have prevailed." IOW MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Isn't Bush's "surge" of troops working well?
Pay attention to the frequency of American deaths since it began.


"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair
Lewis

Thanks Chuck, I think I will see this this weekend.

Loretta

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:59:31 GMT, Grandpa Chuck
<GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote:

>Hello dear friends,
>
>We went to see "Sicko" yesterday as planned. To us it is definitely a
>MUST SEE movie. It will really make you wonder why the United States
>has to be so far behind other nations on something as important as
>health care. The is the only country where people are forced into
>bankruptcy and lost their homes even if they have health insurance. It
>is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>We have heard it said that doctors would leave medicine in droves if
>we ever pass a universal health care plan in this country. Just wait
>till you see the French general practice doctor who drives a new Audi
>and owns a one million dollar three story house on his wages paid by
>the government. Even if you are not a Michael Moore fan, if you
>believe only half of what is said in the movie, we think you will
>still believe you would be better off medically if you lived somewhere
>else - even Cuba. Go see it yourself and take the time to think about
>what you just saw.

Michael Moore makes interesting movies. They are not documentries by
any stretch of the imagination. Some of what he says is true, some is
out of context, and some is just not true. Everyone is free to go to
Cuba to live (I think). Or anywhere else that you have mentioned. I am
not saying that our health system is great. I am not saying that I am
against Free health Care for everyone. I don't think the government
should run the program. Oversee it, sure, but not run it. Just one
true independents opinion.

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:59:31 GMT, Grandpa Chuck
<GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote:

>Hello dear friends,
>
>We went to see "Sicko" yesterday as planned. To us it is definitely a
>MUST SEE movie. It will really make you wonder why the United States
>has to be so far behind other nations on something as important as
>health care. The is the only country where people are forced into
>bankruptcy and lost their homes even if they have health insurance. It
>is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>We have heard it said that doctors would leave medicine in droves if
>we ever pass a universal health care plan in this country. Just wait
>till you see the French general practice doctor who drives a new Audi
>and owns a one million dollar three story house on his wages paid by
>the government. Even if you are not a Michael Moore fan, if you
>believe only half of what is said in the movie, we think you will
>still believe you would be better off medically if you lived somewhere
>else - even Cuba. Go see it yourself and take the time to think about
>what you just saw.

Chuck, if you are down on mr. Bush as a person, you could be wrong.

If you are down on Bushm the icon, yo may be on track.

When we elect a new icon, we need to look at where they have
obligations.

To stay on topic. If there is ot an outcry, diabetes will never be
cured.

As far as a strike, The medical lcense is a legal document.

Abuse it and lose it.

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On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:27:31 -0400, jtees4 <jtees4@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:59:31 GMT, Grandpa Chuck
><GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote:
>
>>Hello dear friends,
>>
>>We went to see "Sicko" yesterday as planned. To us it is definitely a
>>MUST SEE movie. It will really make you wonder why the United States
>>has to be so far behind other nations on something as important as
>>health care. The is the only country where people are forced into
>>bankruptcy and lost their homes even if they have health insurance. It
>>is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>>We have heard it said that doctors would leave medicine in droves if
>>we ever pass a universal health care plan in this country. Just wait
>>till you see the French general practice doctor who drives a new Audi
>>and owns a one million dollar three story house on his wages paid by
>>the government. Even if you are not a Michael Moore fan, if you
>>believe only half of what is said in the movie, we think you will
>>still believe you would be better off medically if you lived somewhere
>>else - even Cuba. Go see it yourself and take the time to think about
>>what you just saw.
>
>Michael Moore makes interesting movies. They are not documentries by
>any stretch of the imagination. Some of what he says is true, some is
>out of context, and some is just not true. Everyone is free to go to
>Cuba to live (I think). Or anywhere else that you have mentioned. I am
>not saying that our health system is great. I am not saying that I am
>against Free health Care for everyone. I don't think the government
>should run the program. Oversee it, sure, but not run it. Just one
>true independents opinion.

Then who should run it? Private insurance companies? Drug companies?
If this country cannot establish a free health care system better than
any other in the world by learning from mistakes other countries have
made then we have failed at our old inspirational (not religious) and
our ingenuity.
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~


Americans killed in the occupation of Iraq as of July 29, 2007 is 3,651.
United Kingdom = 163 Other = 129.

How many more Americans must die to satisfy Bush's ego?
Let us all pray for Bush - God knows he needs it!

As of July 30, 2007 it has been 1552 days since Bush
while standing in front of the banner which was sent
to the ship by the White House saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
declared,"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our
allies have prevailed." IOW MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Isn't Bush's "surge" of troops working well?
Pay attention to the frequency of American deaths since it began.


"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair
Lewis

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:40:05 -0700, guys@consolidated.net wrote:

>On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:59:31 GMT, Grandpa Chuck
><GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote:
>
>>Hello dear friends,
>>
>>We went to see "Sicko" yesterday as planned. To us it is definitely a
>>MUST SEE movie. It will really make you wonder why the United States
>>has to be so far behind other nations on something as important as
>>health care. The is the only country where people are forced into
>>bankruptcy and lost their homes even if they have health insurance. It
>>is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>>We have heard it said that doctors would leave medicine in droves if
>>we ever pass a universal health care plan in this country. Just wait
>>till you see the French general practice doctor who drives a new Audi
>>and owns a one million dollar three story house on his wages paid by
>>the government. Even if you are not a Michael Moore fan, if you
>>believe only half of what is said in the movie, we think you will
>>still believe you would be better off medically if you lived somewhere
>>else - even Cuba. Go see it yourself and take the time to think about
>>what you just saw.
>
>Chuck, if you are down on mr. Bush as a person, you could be wrong.

What does that have to do with our medical establishment?

>
>If you are down on Bushm the icon, yo may be on track.
>
>When we elect a new icon, we need to look at where they have
>obligations.
>
>To stay on topic. If there is ot an outcry, diabetes will never be
>cured.

The drug companies don't want to cure diabetes. That would be killing
the golden calf.

>
>As far as a strike, The medical lcense is a legal document.

Please explain that statement. It makes no sense to me.

>
>Abuse it and lose it.
>

Huh?
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~


Americans killed in the occupation of Iraq as of July 29, 2007 is 3,651.
United Kingdom = 163 Other = 129.

How many more Americans must die to satisfy Bush's ego?
Let us all pray for Bush - God knows he needs it!

As of July 30, 2007 it has been 1552 days since Bush
while standing in front of the banner which was sent
to the ship by the White House saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
declared,"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our
allies have prevailed." IOW MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Isn't Bush's "surge" of troops working well?
Pay attention to the frequency of American deaths since it began.


"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair
Lewis

"Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
news:n96sa3h8i5lj97a75rrrjni9vcj6e5p3jq@4ax.com...
> United States....
> > is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>

Huh?
I've never had that problem. Sure, sometimes a doctor has commented that my
insurance might not cover something-or-other, but hasn't refused treatment
on that basis alone. I've had treatment that the insurance company refused
to cover, but as long as I agreed to pay for it the doctor & the hospital
were fine with doing it.

I also go to one doctor that doesn't even take insurance. I work out any
coverage/repayment with the insurance company but meanwhile the doctor has
been paid.
bj

bj wrote:
> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
> news:n96sa3h8i5lj97a75rrrjni9vcj6e5p3jq@4ax.com...
>
>> United States....
>>
>>> is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>>
>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>>
>>
>
> Huh?
> I've never had that problem. Sure, sometimes a doctor has commented that my
> insurance might not cover something-or-other, but hasn't refused treatment
> on that basis alone. I've had treatment that the insurance company refused
> to cover, but as long as I agreed to pay for it the doctor & the hospital
> were fine with doing it.
>
> I also go to one doctor that doesn't even take insurance. I work out any
> coverage/repayment with the insurance company but meanwhile the doctor has
> been paid.
> bj
>
>
>
well you can afford that. . Many can't. The classic case which helped
get the Children's coverage passed initially was a couple in DC with an
asthmatic daughter, They both worked minimum wage with no benefits -
about 20,000 per year total, WAY too much for medical assistance. Every
tie the child had an attack, they went to the ER - at a cost of over
$1,000, soon they owed the hospital $20,000. The hospital got a
judgment and garnished the very small amount of wages that they could,
but the debt kept mounting, Now the child had very uncomplicated
asthma, and a few regular doctors visits and an inhaler. The advise to
the parents by Social Services was to stop working and than they could
get Medical assistance,.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:50:55 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
wrote:

>"Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>news:n96sa3h8i5lj97a75rrrjni9vcj6e5p3jq@4ax.com.. .
>> United States....
>> > is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>>
>
>Huh?
>I've never had that problem. Sure, sometimes a doctor has commented that my
>insurance might not cover something-or-other, but hasn't refused treatment
>on that basis alone. I've had treatment that the insurance company refused
>to cover, but as long as I agreed to pay for it the doctor & the hospital
>were fine with doing it.

But if you lived in Canada, Great Britain or France it would not have
cost you anything.

>
>I also go to one doctor that doesn't even take insurance. I work out any
>coverage/repayment with the insurance company but meanwhile the doctor has
>been paid.
>bj
>

Not all of us have that much money.
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~


Americans killed in the occupation of Iraq as of July 29, 2007 is 3,651.
United Kingdom = 163 Other = 129.

How many more Americans must die to satisfy Bush's ego?
Let us all pray for Bush - God knows he needs it!

As of July 30, 2007 it has been 1552 days since Bush
while standing in front of the banner which was sent
to the ship by the White House saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
declared,"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our
allies have prevailed." IOW MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Isn't Bush's "surge" of troops working well?
Pay attention to the frequency of American deaths since it began.


"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair
Lewis

"Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
news:jgdta3t4tm19aaqke7nnvuvmgjhnrpo3a5@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:50:55 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
> wrote:
>
>>"Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>>news:n96sa3h8i5lj97a75rrrjni9vcj6e5p3jq@4ax.com. ..
>>> United States....
>>> > is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>>>
>>
>>Huh?
>>I've never had that problem. Sure, sometimes a doctor has commented that
>>my
>>insurance might not cover something-or-other, but hasn't refused treatment
>>on that basis alone. I've had treatment that the insurance company refused
>>to cover, but as long as I agreed to pay for it the doctor & the hospital
>>were fine with doing it.
>
> But if you lived in Canada, Great Britain or France it would not have
> cost you anything.
>

Would it have been done at all?
If it's not approved by my insurance company & I can't afford to have it
anyway so I skip it, how is that different from not having it (for free)
when the health authority doesn't approve it?

And it did turn out to be well worth the trouble, since they did "find
something" -- made for an easy fix then but could have been a lot ickier
later.
bj

"ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
news:f8m8f6$ujk$1@aioe.org...
> bj wrote:
>> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>> news:n96sa3h8i5lj97a75rrrjni9vcj6e5p3jq@4ax.com...
>>
>>> United States....
>>>
>>>> is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>>>
>>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Huh?
>> I've never had that problem. Sure, sometimes a doctor has commented that
>> my insurance might not cover something-or-other, but hasn't refused
>> treatment on that basis alone. I've had treatment that the insurance
>> company refused to cover, but as long as I agreed to pay for it the
>> doctor & the hospital were fine with doing it.
>>
>> I also go to one doctor that doesn't even take insurance. I work out any
>> coverage/repayment with the insurance company but meanwhile the doctor
>> has been paid.
>> bj
>>
> well you can afford that. . Many can't.

I was disputing the idea that a doctor must get approval from <insurance co.
etc> no matter the financial status.
bj

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:43:20 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
wrote:

>"ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
>news:f8m8f6$ujk$1@aioe.org...
>> bj wrote:
>>> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>>> news:n96sa3h8i5lj97a75rrrjni9vcj6e5p3jq@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> United States....
>>>>
>>>>> is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>>>>
>>>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>>> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>> I've never had that problem. Sure, sometimes a doctor has commented that
>>> my insurance might not cover something-or-other, but hasn't refused
>>> treatment on that basis alone. I've had treatment that the insurance
>>> company refused to cover, but as long as I agreed to pay for it the
>>> doctor & the hospital were fine with doing it.
>>>
>>> I also go to one doctor that doesn't even take insurance. I work out any
>>> coverage/repayment with the insurance company but meanwhile the doctor
>>> has been paid.
>>> bj
>>>
>> well you can afford that. . Many can't.
>
>I was disputing the idea that a doctor must get approval from <insurance co.
>etc> no matter the financial status.
>bj
>
>The issue is that people in the US do suffer and do die
every day because they cannot afford medical care.

But we make a big deal over a dog fight operation which is very common
in the US.

Hurt a pet and it is a major case. A simple person setting in a
waiting room for tens of hours is not a big deal. They are just a
bunch of trash-good riddance.

People here live in the temporary golden age of insurance and DO not
realize it.

Some of the crap that cluttes our life should disaappear before the
sun sets.

i

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On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:48:03 GMT, Grandpa Chuck
<GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote:

>On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:27:31 -0400, jtees4 <jtees4@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:59:31 GMT, Grandpa Chuck
>><GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Hello dear friends,
>>>
>>>We went to see "Sicko" yesterday as planned. To us it is definitely a
>>>MUST SEE movie. It will really make you wonder why the United States
>>>has to be so far behind other nations on something as important as
>>>health care. The is the only country where people are forced into
>>>bankruptcy and lost their homes even if they have health insurance. It
>>>is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>>from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>>a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>>>We have heard it said that doctors would leave medicine in droves if
>>>we ever pass a universal health care plan in this country. Just wait
>>>till you see the French general practice doctor who drives a new Audi
>>>and owns a one million dollar three story house on his wages paid by
>>>the government. Even if you are not a Michael Moore fan, if you
>>>believe only half of what is said in the movie, we think you will
>>>still believe you would be better off medically if you lived somewhere
>>>else - even Cuba. Go see it yourself and take the time to think about
>>>what you just saw.
>>
>>Michael Moore makes interesting movies. They are not documentries by
>>any stretch of the imagination. Some of what he says is true, some is
>>out of context, and some is just not true. Everyone is free to go to
>>Cuba to live (I think). Or anywhere else that you have mentioned. I am
>>not saying that our health system is great. I am not saying that I am
>>against Free health Care for everyone. I don't think the government
>>should run the program. Oversee it, sure, but not run it. Just one
>>true independents opinion.
>
>Then who should run it? Private insurance companies? Drug companies?
>If this country cannot establish a free health care system better than
>any other in the world by learning from mistakes other countries have
>made then we have failed at our old inspirational (not religious) and
>our ingenuity.

Don't know the answer. Don't claim to know the answer.

bj wrote:
> "ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
> news:f8m8f6$ujk$1@aioe.org...
>
>> bj wrote:
>>
>>> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>>> news:n96sa3h8i5lj97a75rrrjni9vcj6e5p3jq@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>> United States....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>>> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Huh?
>>> I've never had that problem. Sure, sometimes a doctor has commented that
>>> my insurance might not cover something-or-other, but hasn't refused
>>> treatment on that basis alone. I've had treatment that the insurance
>>> company refused to cover, but as long as I agreed to pay for it the
>>> doctor & the hospital were fine with doing it.
>>>
>>> I also go to one doctor that doesn't even take insurance. I work out any
>>> coverage/repayment with the insurance company but meanwhile the doctor
>>> has been paid.
>>> bj
>>>
>>>
>> well you can afford that. . Many can't.
>>
>
> I was disputing the idea that a doctor must get approval from <insurance co.
> etc> no matter the financial status.
> bj
>
>
>
>
No,rxcept in an emergancy, a doctor must get approval, often
pre-approval, or an agreement that YOU will pay, or they won't do anything.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:43:20 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
wrote:

>"ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
>news:f8m8f6$ujk$1@aioe.org...
>> bj wrote:
>>> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>>> news:n96sa3h8i5lj97a75rrrjni9vcj6e5p3jq@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> United States....
>>>>
>>>>> is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>>>>
>>>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>>> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>> I've never had that problem. Sure, sometimes a doctor has commented that
>>> my insurance might not cover something-or-other, but hasn't refused
>>> treatment on that basis alone. I've had treatment that the insurance
>>> company refused to cover, but as long as I agreed to pay for it the
>>> doctor & the hospital were fine with doing it.
>>>
>>> I also go to one doctor that doesn't even take insurance. I work out any
>>> coverage/repayment with the insurance company but meanwhile the doctor
>>> has been paid.
>>> bj
>>>
>> well you can afford that. . Many can't.
>
>I was disputing the idea that a doctor must get approval from <insurance co.
>etc> no matter the financial status.
>bj
>
>

Thank you for admitting you were wrong. If the person is covered by
health insurance the doctor has to get prior approval for most
procedures and tests. BTW if you volunteer to pay it yourself it still
does on your medical record and may end up costing you coverage later
on for subsequent services.
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~


Americans killed in the occupation of Iraq as of July 30, 2007 is 3,653.
United Kingdom = 163 Other = 129.

How many more Americans must die to satisfy Bush's ego?
Let us all pray for Bush - God knows he needs it!

As of July 31, 2007 it has been 1553 days since Bush
while standing in front of the banner which was sent
to the ship by the White House saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
declared,"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our
allies have prevailed." IOW MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Isn't Bush's "surge" of troops working well?
Pay attention to the frequency of American deaths since it began.


"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair
Lewis

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:43:20 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
wrote:

>"Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>news:jgdta3t4tm19aaqke7nnvuvmgjhnrpo3a5@4ax.com.. .
>> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:50:55 GMT, "bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>>>news:n96sa3h8i5lj97a75rrrjni9vcj6e5p3jq@4ax.com ...
>>>> United States....
>>>> > is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>>> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Huh?
>>>I've never had that problem. Sure, sometimes a doctor has commented that
>>>my
>>>insurance might not cover something-or-other, but hasn't refused treatment
>>>on that basis alone. I've had treatment that the insurance company refused
>>>to cover, but as long as I agreed to pay for it the doctor & the hospital
>>>were fine with doing it.
>>
>> But if you lived in Canada, Great Britain or France it would not have
>> cost you anything.
>>
>
>Would it have been done at all?

That is a ridiculous question. Did you see the movie?

>If it's not approved by my insurance company & I can't afford to have it
>anyway so I skip it, how is that different from not having it (for free)
>when the health authority doesn't approve it?

You do not appear to have seen the movie or if you did to have paid
attention.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~


Americans killed in the occupation of Iraq as of July 30, 2007 is 3,653.
United Kingdom = 163 Other = 129.

How many more Americans must die to satisfy Bush's ego?
Let us all pray for Bush - God knows he needs it!

As of July 31, 2007 it has been 1553 days since Bush
while standing in front of the banner which was sent
to the ship by the White House saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
declared,"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our
allies have prevailed." IOW MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Isn't Bush's "surge" of troops working well?
Pay attention to the frequency of American deaths since it began.


"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair
Lewis

On Jul 30, 11:59 am, Grandpa Chuck <GrandpaCh...@B4me.org> wrote:
> Hello dear friends,
>
> We went to see "Sicko" yesterday as planned. To us it is definitely a
> MUST SEE movie. It will really make you wonder why the United States
> has to be so far behind other nations on something as important as
> health care. >
> Grandpa Chuck
> -ô¿ô-
> ~
>

Couple of questions and a thought or two Chuck; I've read through the
complete thread and you say that healthcare should be free. No matter
what source healthcare comes from it won't be free. Someone will be
paying, either directly or through taxes. How much of your income are
you willing to ante up for "Free Healthcare?"

Who should run this magical Healthcare organization? I take it you
think the government should be in charge. Name one federal agency
that does an excellent job. I can't think of any I would trust to
manage a program like that. But heck, let FEMA have it! I wonder how
many GS14's will be needed for this outfit!

I agree that changes need to be made, dollars collected by insurance
are eaten away by the insurance companies mass so little is left for
direct care.

I agree that the ill of body or mind who are not capable of work
should be provided care. However, if a person is capable of work and
refuses to do so and lives off the public dole then I have little
sympathy. Individuals must be responsible for their actions or lack
of action.

I also admit that I don't have the answers, but I really don't think
that "Free Healthcare" is the answer.

RB

The complete thread was not on my newserver so I posted through Google

bj wrote:
> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>> United States....
>>> is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.

Chuck, I really doubt you know whether any other countries
allow that to happen. In fact, I doubt whether you can name
two-thirds of the countries in the world without looking them
up. I know I can't and I'm pretty good at geography.

In fact, to be accurate, no one can prevent you and your doctor
from getting any legal treatment. They may refuse to pay, but
it depends on the plan and contract. There are a lot of payers
that do not have such restrictions.

--
Wes Groleau

Even if you do learn to speak correct English,
whom are you going to speak it to?
-- Clarence Darrow

ron.bonner@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 30, 11:59 am, Grandpa Chuck <GrandpaCh...@B4me.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello dear friends,
>>
>> We went to see "Sicko" yesterday as planned. To us it is definitely a
>> MUST SEE movie. It will really make you wonder why the United States
>> has to be so far behind other nations on something as important as
>> health care. >
>> Grandpa Chuck
>> -ô¿ô-
>> ~
>>
>>
>
> Couple of questions and a thought or two Chuck; I've read through the
> complete thread and you say that healthcare should be free. No matter
> what source healthcare comes from it won't be free. Someone will be
> paying, either directly or through taxes. How much of your income are
> you willing to ante up for "Free Healthcare?"
>
probably little or none - currently US healthcare is SO bad and SO
inefficient that the per capita cost the federal government pays for
health care is greater than the per capita cost for any country which
provides universal heath care. as much as 80% of the health care dollar
goees to sales and administratiom. The medicare admin costs are about
4%, VA less.

> Who should run this magical Healthcare organization? I take it you
> think the government should be in charge. Name one federal agency
> that does an excellent job. I can't think of any I would trust to
> manage a program like that.
CMS is currently doing an excellent job

> But heck, let FEMA have it! I wonder how
> many GS14's will be needed for this outfit!
>
>
GE$E I asume that you8r ignorant brain thought that was funny
> I agree that changes need to be made, dollars collected by insurance
> are eaten away by the insurance companies mass so little is left for
> direct care.
>
> I agree that the ill of body or mind who are not capable of work
> should be provided care. However, if a person is capable of work and
> refuses to do so and lives off the public dole then I have little
> sympathy. Individuals must be responsible for their actions or lack
> of action.
>
>
THAT isn't the problem - the problem is people who ARE working
> I also admit that I don't have the answers, but I really don't think
> that "Free Healthcare" is the answer.
>
> RB
>
> The complete thread was not on my newserver so I posted through Google
>
>

Wes Groleau wrote:
> bj wrote:
>> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>>> United States....
>>>> is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>
> Chuck, I really doubt you know whether any other countries
> allow that to happen. In fact, I doubt whether you can name
> two-thirds of the countries in the world without looking them
> up. I know I can't and I'm pretty good at geography.
>
> In fact, to be accurate, no one can prevent you and your doctor
> from getting any legal treatment. They may refuse to pay, but
> it depends on the plan and contract. There are a lot of payers
> that do not have such restrictions.
>

Wes - I guess you don't know
IF NO ONE WILL PAY, THE PROVIDERS WON'T WORK

No physician or hospital will give you anything but the barest
emergencey treatment unless they are sure that they will be paid

To give you an example: My daughter was in an explosion and had a badly
shattered leg. She went to Shock/Trauma, and had it rebuilt, and the
shrapnel removed from her - This was covered by Workman's Comp

She has to get follow up care

A few years ago University of Maryland Hospital's Orthopedic division
decided that Workman's Comp doesn't pay well enough, so, when she went
for a follow up visit, they fold her to get lost, and be sure not to
call ANY ortho in the UMMS system. She HAD insurance, which covered the
visit, But the hospital wouldn't accept the payment offered, and
wouldn't see her..Workman's comp only pays "reasonable and customary"
fees, and the patient can NOT be billed.

She is seen at Hainan University Hospital in China. Her insurance
doesn't cover it, but the costs are low enough that she can pay them
herself.

"ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
news:f8ol7l$dd3$1@aioe.org...
> ron.bonner@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Jul 30, 11:59 am, Grandpa Chuck <GrandpaCh...@B4me.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello dear friends,
>>>
>>> We went to see "Sicko" yesterday as planned. To us it is definitely a
>>> MUST SEE movie. It will really make you wonder why the United States
>>> has to be so far behind other nations on something as important as
>>> health care. >
>>> Grandpa Chuck
>>> -ô¿ô-
>>> ~
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Couple of questions and a thought or two Chuck; I've read through the
>> complete thread and you say that healthcare should be free. No matter
>> what source healthcare comes from it won't be free. Someone will be
>> paying, either directly or through taxes. How much of your income are
>> you willing to ante up for "Free Healthcare?"
>>
> probably little or none - currently US healthcare is SO bad and SO
> inefficient that the per capita cost the federal government pays for
> health care is greater than the per capita cost for any country which
> provides universal heath care. as much as 80% of the health care dollar
> goees to sales and administratiom. The medicare admin costs are about 4%,
> VA less.

Ted, if you think there will not be a tax impact then I think your overly
optimistic. Someone will have to manage the program. Those of us paying
taxes will fund it. From what has been in the news about healhtcare (or
lack of) in the VA system recently I think I'll take a pass.


>
>> Who should run this magical Healthcare organization? I take it you
>> think the government should be in charge. Name one federal agency
>> that does an excellent job. I can't think of any I would trust to
>> manage a program like that.
> CMS is currently doing an excellent job


Ok, I'll bite, who is CMS? What job are they doing so well now?


>
>> But heck, let FEMA have it! I wonder how
>> many GS14's will be needed for this outfit!
>>
>>
> GE$E I asume that you8r ignorant brain thought that was funny
>> I agree that changes need to be made, dollars collected by insurance
>> are eaten away by the insurance companies mass so little is left for
>> direct care.


No realistic, employees of the government are paid pretty well. GS-14 is a
paygrade and any agency that manages healthcare administration will be
loaded with them, Lower grades mostly but it will not be a cheap operation.


>>
>> I agree that the ill of body or mind who are not capable of work
>> should be provided care. However, if a person is capable of work and
>> refuses to do so and lives off the public dole then I have little
>> sympathy. Individuals must be responsible for their actions or lack
>> of action.
>>
>>
> THAT isn't the problem - the problem is people who ARE working


No both working and non working people are the problem. Someone will pay
for the non-working as is done now. Those who work will have access but
taxes will fund it.

Ted, why so angry? I posted civily, without name calling. Try to show some
maturity!

RB



>> I also admit that I don't have the answers, but I really don't think
>> that "Free Healthcare" is the answer.
>>
>> RB
>>
>> The complete thread was not on my newserver so I posted through Google
>>
>>

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:54:54 GMT, Wes Groleau
<groleau+news@freeshell.org> wrote:

>bj wrote:
>> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>>> United States....
>>>> is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>> a patient regardless of who that person is or their financial status.
>
>Chuck, I really doubt you know whether any other countries
>allow that to happen. In fact, I doubt whether you can name
>two-thirds of the countries in the world without looking them
>up. I know I can't and I'm pretty good at geography.
>
>In fact, to be accurate, no one can prevent you and your doctor
>from getting any legal treatment. They may refuse to pay, but
>it depends on the plan and contract. There are a lot of payers
>that do not have such restrictions.

Wes, I was talking about western developed nations.
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~


Americans killed in the occupation of Iraq as of July 30, 2007 is 3,653.
United Kingdom = 163 Other = 129.

How many more Americans must die to satisfy Bush's ego?
Let us all pray for Bush - God knows he needs it!

As of July 31, 2007 it has been 1553 days since Bush
while standing in front of the banner which was sent
to the ship by the White House saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
declared,"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our
allies have prevailed." IOW MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Isn't Bush's "surge" of troops working well?
Pay attention to the frequency of American deaths since it began.


"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair
Lewis

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:48:44 -0700, ron.bonner@gmail.com wrote:

>On Jul 30, 11:59 am, Grandpa Chuck <GrandpaCh...@B4me.org> wrote:
>> Hello dear friends,
>>
>> We went to see "Sicko" yesterday as planned. To us it is definitely a
>> MUST SEE movie. It will really make you wonder why the United States
>> has to be so far behind other nations on something as important as
>> health care. >
>> Grandpa Chuck
>> -ô¿ô-
>> ~
>>
>
>Couple of questions and a thought or two Chuck; I've read through the
>complete thread and you say that healthcare should be free. No matter
>what source healthcare comes from it won't be free. Someone will be
>paying, either directly or through taxes. How much of your income are
>you willing to ante up for "Free Healthcare?"

Whatever it takes so long as we don't have to pay any insurance
premiums and everyone pays the same amount.

>
>Who should run this magical Healthcare organization? I take it you
>think the government should be in charge. Name one federal agency
>that does an excellent job. I can't think of any I would trust to
>manage a program like that. But heck, let FEMA have it! I wonder how
>many GS14's will be needed for this outfit!

If we can't look at other countries that have national health care
systems and do it even better then this country has become a third
world nation.

>
>I agree that changes need to be made, dollars collected by insurance
>are eaten away by the insurance companies mass so little is left for
>direct care.
>
>I agree that the ill of body or mind who are not capable of work
>should be provided care. However, if a person is capable of work and
>refuses to do so and lives off the public dole then I have little
>sympathy. Individuals must be responsible for their actions or lack
>of action.

And who decides exactly who they are?

>
>I also admit that I don't have the answers, but I really don't think
>that "Free Healthcare" is the answer.

Did you see the movie?

>
>RB
>
>The complete thread was not on my newserver so I posted through Google
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~


Americans killed in the occupation of Iraq as of July 30, 2007 is 3,653.
United Kingdom = 163 Other = 129.

How many more Americans must die to satisfy Bush's ego?
Let us all pray for Bush - God knows he needs it!

As of July 31, 2007 it has been 1553 days since Bush
while standing in front of the banner which was sent
to the ship by the White House saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
declared,"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our
allies have prevailed." IOW MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Isn't Bush's "surge" of troops working well?
Pay attention to the frequency of American deaths since it began.


"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair
Lewis

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:15:13 -0500, "RB" <bonmel2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"ted rosenberg" <tedrosenberg@iname.com> wrote in message
>news:f8ol7l$dd3$1@aioe.org...
>> ron.bonner@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Jul 30, 11:59 am, Grandpa Chuck <GrandpaCh...@B4me.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello dear friends,
>>>>
>>>> We went to see "Sicko" yesterday as planned. To us it is definitely a
>>>> MUST SEE movie. It will really make you wonder why the United States
>>>> has to be so far behind other nations on something as important as
>>>> health care. >
>>>> Grandpa Chuck
>>>> -ô¿ô-
>>>> ~
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Couple of questions and a thought or two Chuck; I've read through the
>>> complete thread and you say that healthcare should be free. No matter
>>> what source healthcare comes from it won't be free. Someone will be
>>> paying, either directly or through taxes. How much of your income are
>>> you willing to ante up for "Free Healthcare?"
>>>
>> probably little or none - currently US healthcare is SO bad and SO
>> inefficient that the per capita cost the federal government pays for
>> health care is greater than the per capita cost for any country which
>> provides universal heath care. as much as 80% of the health care dollar
>> goees to sales and administratiom. The medicare admin costs are about 4%,
>> VA less.
>
>Ted, if you think there will not be a tax impact then I think your overly
>optimistic. Someone will have to manage the program. Those of us paying
>taxes will fund it. From what has been in the news about healhtcare (or
>lack of) in the VA system recently I think I'll take a pass.

What percent of our national defense budget will it take to operate
such a system? We don't need to have a defense department that spends
more than all other nations in the world combined.
>
>
>>
>>> Who should run this magical Healthcare organization? I take it you
>>> think the government should be in charge. Name one federal agency
>>> that does an excellent job. I can't think of any I would trust to
>>> manage a program like that.
>> CMS is currently doing an excellent job
>
>
>Ok, I'll bite, who is CMS? What job are they doing so well now?
>
>
>>
>>> But heck, let FEMA have it! I wonder how
>>> many GS14's will be needed for this outfit!
>>>
>>>
>> GE$E I asume that you8r ignorant brain thought that was funny
>>> I agree that changes need to be made, dollars collected by insurance
>>> are eaten away by the insurance companies mass so little is left for
>>> direct care.
>
>
>No realistic, employees of the government are paid pretty well. GS-14 is a
>paygrade and any agency that manages healthcare administration will be
>loaded with them, Lower grades mostly but it will not be a cheap operation.
>
>
>>>
>>> I agree that the ill of body or mind who are not capable of work
>>> should be provided care. However, if a person is capable of work and
>>> refuses to do so and lives off the public dole then I have little
>>> sympathy. Individuals must be responsible for their actions or lack
>>> of action.
>>>
>>>
>> THAT isn't the problem - the problem is people who ARE working
>
>
>No both working and non working people are the problem. Someone will pay
>for the non-working as is done now. Those who work will have access but
>taxes will fund it.
>
>Ted, why so angry? I posted civily, without name calling. Try to show some
>maturity!
>
>RB
>
>
>
>>> I also admit that I don't have the answers, but I really don't think
>>> that "Free Healthcare" is the answer.
>>>
>>> RB
>>>
>>> The complete thread was not on my newserver so I posted through Google
>>>
>>>
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~


Americans killed in the occupation of Iraq as of July 30, 2007 is 3,653.
United Kingdom = 163 Other = 129.

How many more Americans must die to satisfy Bush's ego?
Let us all pray for Bush - God knows he needs it!

As of July 31, 2007 it has been 1553 days since Bush
while standing in front of the banner which was sent
to the ship by the White House saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
declared,"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our
allies have prevailed." IOW MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Isn't Bush's "surge" of troops working well?
Pay attention to the frequency of American deaths since it began.


"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair
Lewis

ted rosenberg wrote:
> Wes - I guess you don't know
> IF NO ONE WILL PAY, THE PROVIDERS WON'T WORK

Ted - I guess you haven't been paying attention.

I work for a provider posting payments from payers.

I _do_ know about ABNs and up-front discounts and such.

I have had four other employers with various sorts
of health plans. Some of them have had rather stupid
restrictions on treatment. Some have not.

> No physician or hospital will give you anything but the barest
> emergencey treatment unless they are sure that they will be paid

We do our best to ensure payment, up front if possible,
but it doesn't always happen. Over the past week, I closed
over thirty thousand accounts totaling over eleven million
dollars. We NEVER refuse _medical_ treatment. We certainly
can and do get paid in advance for _cosmetic_ or _convenience_
treatment.

However, none of that has any bearing on what I said.

I said:

1. What Chuck complained happens "only in America"
probably happens in at least one other place in
this big world.

2. And it does not happen in every case in America.

--
Wes Groleau
-----------

"Thinking I'm dumb gives people something to
feel smug about. Why should I disillusion them?"
-- Charles Wallace
(in _A_Wrinkle_In_Time_)

RB wrote:
> Ok, I'll bite, who is CMS? What job are they doing so well now?

Medicare. I can imagine better, but I've definitely
seen much worse.

--
Wes Groleau
-----------
Daily Hoax: http://www.snopes2.com/cgi-bin/random/random.asp

How can you claim to be "prettty good" at geography if you can't name
countries ?


"Wes Groleau" <groleau+news@freeshell.org> a écrit ...
> bj wrote:
>> "Grandpa Chuck" <GrandpaChuck@B4me.org> wrote in message
>>> United States....
>>>> is also the only country where the doctor has to get prior approval
>>> from an insurance company or anyone else before providing a service to
>>> a patient regardless of who that person is