Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds

Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds

Story Highlights• Eating less, exercising more equally good at helping take
off pounds, study finds
• Research adds to evidence that adding muscle mass does not boost
metabolism
• Dieting alone also did not appear to cause loss of muscle mass along with
fat

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Eating less and exercising more are equally good at
helping take off the pounds, U.S. researchers said Friday in a study that
challenges many of the popular tenets of the multibillion dollar diet and
fitness industry.

Tests on overweight people show that a calorie is just a calorie, whether
lost by dieting or by running, they said.

They found there is no way to selectively lose belly fat, for instance, or
trim thighs. And their carefully controlled study added to evidence that
adding muscle mass does not somehow boost metabolism and help dieters take
off even more weight.

"It's all about the calories," said Dr. Eric Ravussin of the Pennington
Biomedical Research Center, part of Louisiana State University in Baton
Rouge.

"So long as the energy deficit is the same, body weight, fat weight, and
abdominal fat will all decrease in the same way."

Ravussin said the study, published in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology
& Metabolism, is one of the few done under controlled conditions that can
& actually demonstrate what happens to a human body while dieting and
& exercising.

Ravussin's team has been testing volunteers for another reason -- to see
whether taking in fewer calories helps people live longer. Strict diets
have been shown to help animals from worms to dogs live longer, but it
takes longer to study monkeys and humans.

They tested 24 people, 12 who ate a calorie-restricted diet, and 12 who
dieted and also exercised five times a week for six months.

The dieters ate 25 percent less than normal, while the exercisers reduced
their calorie intake by 12.5 percent and increased their physical activity
to lose an extra 12.5 percent in calories.

An additional 10 volunteers acted as controls. All food was provided by the
university in carefully measured portions for most of the study.

The volunteers in both groups lost about 10 percent of their body weight,
24 percent of their fat mass, and 27 percent of their abdominal visceral
fat. Visceral fat is packed in between the internal organs and is
considered the most dangerous type of fat, linked with heart disease and
diabetes.

The distribution of the fat on the body was not altered by either approach
-- helping prove that there is no such thing as "spot reducing", Ravussin
said in a telephone interview.

This suggests that "individuals are genetically programmed for fat storage
in a particular pattern and that this programming cannot easily be
overcome," he added.

Ravussin has published other studies that also dispute the idea that
exercise builds muscle that helps people lose weight.

"If anything, highly trained people are highly efficient, so they burn
fewer calories at rest," Ravussin said.

Dieting alone also did not appear to cause the volunteers to lose muscle
mass along with fat, Ravussin's team found.

"There is a concept that if you exercise, you are going to lose less of
your muscle," he said. But his team found no evidence this is true.

Ravussin believes exercise is crucial to health, however.

"For overall health, an appropriate program of diet and exercise is still
the best," he said.

His team found some small suggestion that cutting 25 percent of calories by
either diet or diet and exercise might extend life.

"We found that 2 of the biomarkers of aging were improved -- core
temperature was 0.4 to 0.5 degrees C less," he said. "Insulin, which has
been shown to be a biomarker of aging, was reduced," Ravussin said. That
finding was published in the Journal of the American Medical Associaton
last April.


Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet....ise.reut/index.
html

You would think that in 2007, after decades of research, after
spending billons of dollars on research, the knowledge accumalted that
they would have figured out how the human body works. It seems that we
still know little about it.

On Jan 27, 2:44 pm, morgan-...@yahoo.com (Morgan) wrote:
> Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>
> Story Highlights· Eating less, exercising more equally good at helping take
> off pounds, study finds
> · Research adds to evidence that adding muscle mass does not boost
> metabolism
> · Dieting alone also did not appear to cause loss of muscle mass along with
> fat
>
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Eating less and exercising more are equally good at
> helping take off the pounds, U.S. researchers said Friday in a study that
> challenges many of the popular tenets of the multibillion dollar diet and
> fitness industry.
>
> Tests on overweight people show that a calorie is just a calorie, whether
> lost by dieting or by running, they said.
>
> They found there is no way to selectively lose belly fat, for instance, or
> trim thighs. And their carefully controlled study added to evidence that
> adding muscle mass does not somehow boost metabolism and help dieters take
> off even more weight.
>
> "It's all about the calories," said Dr. Eric Ravussin of the Pennington
> Biomedical Research Center, part of Louisiana State University in Baton
> Rouge.
>
> "So long as the energy deficit is the same, body weight, fat weight, and
> abdominal fat will all decrease in the same way."
>
> Ravussin said the study, published in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology
> & Metabolism, is one of the few done under controlled conditions that can
> & actually demonstrate what happens to a human body while dieting and
> & exercising.
>
> Ravussin's team has been testing volunteers for another reason -- to see
> whether taking in fewer calories helps people live longer. Strict diets
> have been shown to help animals from worms to dogs live longer, but it
> takes longer to study monkeys and humans.
>
> They tested 24 people, 12 who ate a calorie-restricted diet, and 12 who
> dieted and also exercised five times a week for six months.
>
> The dieters ate 25 percent less than normal, while the exercisers reduced
> their calorie intake by 12.5 percent and increased their physical activity
> to lose an extra 12.5 percent in calories.
>
> An additional 10 volunteers acted as controls. All food was provided by the
> university in carefully measured portions for most of the study.
>
> The volunteers in both groups lost about 10 percent of their body weight,
> 24 percent of their fat mass, and 27 percent of their abdominal visceral
> fat. Visceral fat is packed in between the internal organs and is
> considered the most dangerous type of fat, linked with heart disease and
> diabetes.
>
> The distribution of the fat on the body was not altered by either approach
> -- helping prove that there is no such thing as "spot reducing", Ravussin
> said in a telephone interview.
>
> This suggests that "individuals are genetically programmed for fat storage
> in a particular pattern and that this programming cannot easily be
> overcome," he added.
>
> Ravussin has published other studies that also dispute the idea that
> exercise builds muscle that helps people lose weight.
>
> "If anything, highly trained people are highly efficient, so they burn
> fewer calories at rest," Ravussin said.
>
> Dieting alone also did not appear to cause the volunteers to lose muscle
> mass along with fat, Ravussin's team found.
>
> "There is a concept that if you exercise, you are going to lose less of
> your muscle," he said. But his team found no evidence this is true.
>
> Ravussin believes exercise is crucial to health, however.
>
> "For overall health, an appropriate program of diet and exercise is still
> the best," he said.
>
> His team found some small suggestion that cutting 25 percent of calories by
> either diet or diet and exercise might extend life.
>
> "We found that 2 of the biomarkers of aging were improved -- core
> temperature was 0.4 to 0.5 degrees C less," he said. "Insulin, which has
> been shown to be a biomarker of aging, was reduced," Ravussin said. That
> finding was published in the Journal of the American Medical Associaton
> last April.
>
> Find this article at:http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet....exercise.reut/....
> html

["Followup-To:" header set to misc.fitness.weights.]
Dnia 2007-01-27 Morgan napisa³(a):
> Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>
> Story Highlights• Eating less, exercising more equally good at helping take
> off pounds, study finds
> • Research adds to evidence that adding muscle mass does not boost
> metabolism

Written this way, it's simply nonsense. For two people of the same
weight, the one who exercises eats more, so this person metabolises
more.

> • Dieting alone also did not appear to cause loss of muscle mass along with
> fat

Appearances can vary. From study to study.

> "So long as the energy deficit is the same, body weight, fat weight, and
> abdominal fat will all decrease in the same way."

No. If a person starts a muscle building program, this person will
lose way less muscles than a sedentary dieter.

> Ravussin has published other studies that also dispute the idea that
> exercise builds muscle that helps people lose weight.
>
> "If anything, highly trained people are highly efficient, so they burn
> fewer calories at rest," Ravussin said.

Sure. They burn about the same *at rest*. 300 lbs person and 200 lbs
person will burn roughly the same amount of calories at rest, but if
they move around, heavier person will burn more. Muscles are weight
which looks good and by carrying it around one will burn extra calories
(and look better too).

> Dieting alone also did not appear to cause the volunteers to lose muscle
> mass along with fat, Ravussin's team found.

Strange.

> "There is a concept that if you exercise, you are going to lose less of
> your muscle," he said. But his team found no evidence this is true.

Depends which kind of exercises one does.

--
Andrzej Rosa

What's with all the crossposting lately?
Will~

"Morgan" <morgan-s13@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:R2PLZNAX39109.5312037037@anonymous.poster...
> Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>
> Story Highlights. Eating less, exercising more equally good at helping
> take
> off pounds, study finds
> . Research adds to evidence that adding muscle mass does not boost
> metabolism
> . Dieting alone also did not appear to cause loss of muscle mass along
> with
> fat
>
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Eating less and exercising more are equally good
> at
> helping take off the pounds, U.S. researchers said Friday in a study that
> challenges many of the popular tenets of the multibillion dollar diet and
> fitness industry.
>
> Tests on overweight people show that a calorie is just a calorie, whether
> lost by dieting or by running, they said.
>
> They found there is no way to selectively lose belly fat, for instance, or
> trim thighs. And their carefully controlled study added to evidence that
> adding muscle mass does not somehow boost metabolism and help dieters take
> off even more weight.
>
> "It's all about the calories," said Dr. Eric Ravussin of the Pennington
> Biomedical Research Center, part of Louisiana State University in Baton
> Rouge.
>
> "So long as the energy deficit is the same, body weight, fat weight, and
> abdominal fat will all decrease in the same way."
>
> Ravussin said the study, published in the Journal of Clinical
> Endocrinology
> & Metabolism, is one of the few done under controlled conditions that can
> & actually demonstrate what happens to a human body while dieting and
> & exercising.
>
> Ravussin's team has been testing volunteers for another reason -- to see
> whether taking in fewer calories helps people live longer. Strict diets
> have been shown to help animals from worms to dogs live longer, but it
> takes longer to study monkeys and humans.
>
> They tested 24 people, 12 who ate a calorie-restricted diet, and 12 who
> dieted and also exercised five times a week for six months.
>
> The dieters ate 25 percent less than normal, while the exercisers reduced
> their calorie intake by 12.5 percent and increased their physical activity
> to lose an extra 12.5 percent in calories.
>
> An additional 10 volunteers acted as controls. All food was provided by
> the
> university in carefully measured portions for most of the study.
>
> The volunteers in both groups lost about 10 percent of their body weight,
> 24 percent of their fat mass, and 27 percent of their abdominal visceral
> fat. Visceral fat is packed in between the internal organs and is
> considered the most dangerous type of fat, linked with heart disease and
> diabetes.
>
> The distribution of the fat on the body was not altered by either approach
> -- helping prove that there is no such thing as "spot reducing", Ravussin
> said in a telephone interview.
>
> This suggests that "individuals are genetically programmed for fat storage
> in a particular pattern and that this programming cannot easily be
> overcome," he added.
>
> Ravussin has published other studies that also dispute the idea that
> exercise builds muscle that helps people lose weight.
>
> "If anything, highly trained people are highly efficient, so they burn
> fewer calories at rest," Ravussin said.
>
> Dieting alone also did not appear to cause the volunteers to lose muscle
> mass along with fat, Ravussin's team found.
>
> "There is a concept that if you exercise, you are going to lose less of
> your muscle," he said. But his team found no evidence this is true.
>
> Ravussin believes exercise is crucial to health, however.
>
> "For overall health, an appropriate program of diet and exercise is still
> the best," he said.
>
> His team found some small suggestion that cutting 25 percent of calories
> by
> either diet or diet and exercise might extend life.
>
> "We found that 2 of the biomarkers of aging were improved -- core
> temperature was 0.4 to 0.5 degrees C less," he said. "Insulin, which has
> been shown to be a biomarker of aging, was reduced," Ravussin said. That
> finding was published in the Journal of the American Medical Associaton
> last April.
>
>
> Find this article at:
> http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet....ise.reut/index.
> html
>
>

On 27 Jan 2007 19:44:56 -0000, morgan-s13@yahoo.com (Morgan) wrote:

>Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds

lose 150 pounds by shooting a troll. Keep this stupidity out of SSFA.

LV

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones

Someone started it and now it's like a plague...GG
"Willow Herself" <willowkinda@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote in
message news:NaRuh.36070$QU1.13492@newssvr22.news.prodigy. net...
> What's with all the crossposting lately?
> Will~
>
> "Morgan" <morgan-s13@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:R2PLZNAX39109.5312037037@anonymous.poster...
>> Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>>
>> Story Highlights. Eating less, exercising more equally good at helping
>> take
>> off pounds, study finds
>> . Research adds to evidence that adding muscle mass does not boost
>> metabolism
>> . Dieting alone also did not appear to cause loss of muscle mass along
>> with
>> fat
>>
>> WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Eating less and exercising more are equally good
>> at
>> helping take off the pounds, U.S. researchers said Friday in a study that
>> challenges many of the popular tenets of the multibillion dollar diet and
>> fitness industry.
>>
>> Tests on overweight people show that a calorie is just a calorie, whether
>> lost by dieting or by running, they said.
>>
>> They found there is no way to selectively lose belly fat, for instance,
>> or
>> trim thighs. And their carefully controlled study added to evidence that
>> adding muscle mass does not somehow boost metabolism and help dieters
>> take
>> off even more weight.
>>
>> "It's all about the calories," said Dr. Eric Ravussin of the Pennington
>> Biomedical Research Center, part of Louisiana State University in Baton
>> Rouge.
>>
>> "So long as the energy deficit is the same, body weight, fat weight, and
>> abdominal fat will all decrease in the same way."
>>
>> Ravussin said the study, published in the Journal of Clinical
>> Endocrinology
>> & Metabolism, is one of the few done under controlled conditions that can
>> & actually demonstrate what happens to a human body while dieting and
>> & exercising.
>>
>> Ravussin's team has been testing volunteers for another reason -- to see
>> whether taking in fewer calories helps people live longer. Strict diets
>> have been shown to help animals from worms to dogs live longer, but it
>> takes longer to study monkeys and humans.
>>
>> They tested 24 people, 12 who ate a calorie-restricted diet, and 12 who
>> dieted and also exercised five times a week for six months.
>>
>> The dieters ate 25 percent less than normal, while the exercisers reduced
>> their calorie intake by 12.5 percent and increased their physical
>> activity
>> to lose an extra 12.5 percent in calories.
>>
>> An additional 10 volunteers acted as controls. All food was provided by
>> the
>> university in carefully measured portions for most of the study.
>>
>> The volunteers in both groups lost about 10 percent of their body weight,
>> 24 percent of their fat mass, and 27 percent of their abdominal visceral
>> fat. Visceral fat is packed in between the internal organs and is
>> considered the most dangerous type of fat, linked with heart disease and
>> diabetes.
>>
>> The distribution of the fat on the body was not altered by either
>> approach
>> -- helping prove that there is no such thing as "spot reducing", Ravussin
>> said in a telephone interview.
>>
>> This suggests that "individuals are genetically programmed for fat
>> storage
>> in a particular pattern and that this programming cannot easily be
>> overcome," he added.
>>
>> Ravussin has published other studies that also dispute the idea that
>> exercise builds muscle that helps people lose weight.
>>
>> "If anything, highly trained people are highly efficient, so they burn
>> fewer calories at rest," Ravussin said.
>>
>> Dieting alone also did not appear to cause the volunteers to lose muscle
>> mass along with fat, Ravussin's team found.
>>
>> "There is a concept that if you exercise, you are going to lose less of
>> your muscle," he said. But his team found no evidence this is true.
>>
>> Ravussin believes exercise is crucial to health, however.
>>
>> "For overall health, an appropriate program of diet and exercise is still
>> the best," he said.
>>
>> His team found some small suggestion that cutting 25 percent of calories
>> by
>> either diet or diet and exercise might extend life.
>>
>> "We found that 2 of the biomarkers of aging were improved -- core
>> temperature was 0.4 to 0.5 degrees C less," he said. "Insulin, which has
>> been shown to be a biomarker of aging, was reduced," Ravussin said. That
>> finding was published in the Journal of the American Medical Associaton
>> last April.
>>
>>
>> Find this article at:
>> http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet....ise.reut/index.
>> html
>>
>>
>
>

Sick and tired of those studies. Researchers want their name in the
media and want to get funds to extend their research that will create
more media attraction which in turn will bring more funding.

On Jan 27, 2:44 pm, morgan-...@yahoo.com (Morgan) wrote:
> Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>
> Story Highlights· Eating less, exercising more equally good at helping take
> off pounds, study finds
> · Research adds to evidence that adding muscle mass does not boost
> metabolism
> · Dieting alone also did not appear to cause loss of muscle mass along with
> fat
>
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Eating less and exercising more are equally good at
> helping take off the pounds, U.S. researchers said Friday in a study that
> challenges many of the popular tenets of the multibillion dollar diet and
> fitness industry.
>
> Tests on overweight people show that a calorie is just a calorie, whether
> lost by dieting or by running, they said.
>
> They found there is no way to selectively lose belly fat, for instance, or
> trim thighs. And their carefully controlled study added to evidence that
> adding muscle mass does not somehow boost metabolism and help dieters take
> off even more weight.
>
> "It's all about the calories," said Dr. Eric Ravussin of the Pennington
> Biomedical Research Center, part of Louisiana State University in Baton
> Rouge.
>
> "So long as the energy deficit is the same, body weight, fat weight, and
> abdominal fat will all decrease in the same way."
>
> Ravussin said the study, published in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology
> & Metabolism, is one of the few done under controlled conditions that can
> & actually demonstrate what happens to a human body while dieting and
> & exercising.
>
> Ravussin's team has been testing volunteers for another reason -- to see
> whether taking in fewer calories helps people live longer. Strict diets
> have been shown to help animals from worms to dogs live longer, but it
> takes longer to study monkeys and humans.
>
> They tested 24 people, 12 who ate a calorie-restricted diet, and 12 who
> dieted and also exercised five times a week for six months.
>
> The dieters ate 25 percent less than normal, while the exercisers reduced
> their calorie intake by 12.5 percent and increased their physical activity
> to lose an extra 12.5 percent in calories.
>
> An additional 10 volunteers acted as controls. All food was provided by the
> university in carefully measured portions for most of the study.
>
> The volunteers in both groups lost about 10 percent of their body weight,
> 24 percent of their fat mass, and 27 percent of their abdominal visceral
> fat. Visceral fat is packed in between the internal organs and is
> considered the most dangerous type of fat, linked with heart disease and
> diabetes.
>
> The distribution of the fat on the body was not altered by either approach
> -- helping prove that there is no such thing as "spot reducing", Ravussin
> said in a telephone interview.
>
> This suggests that "individuals are genetically programmed for fat storage
> in a particular pattern and that this programming cannot easily be
> overcome," he added.
>
> Ravussin has published other studies that also dispute the idea that
> exercise builds muscle that helps people lose weight.
>
> "If anything, highly trained people are highly efficient, so they burn
> fewer calories at rest," Ravussin said.
>
> Dieting alone also did not appear to cause the volunteers to lose muscle
> mass along with fat, Ravussin's team found.
>
> "There is a concept that if you exercise, you are going to lose less of
> your muscle," he said. But his team found no evidence this is true.
>
> Ravussin believes exercise is crucial to health, however.
>
> "For overall health, an appropriate program of diet and exercise is still
> the best," he said.
>
> His team found some small suggestion that cutting 25 percent of calories by
> either diet or diet and exercise might extend life.
>
> "We found that 2 of the biomarkers of aging were improved -- core
> temperature was 0.4 to 0.5 degrees C less," he said. "Insulin, which has
> been shown to be a biomarker of aging, was reduced," Ravussin said. That
> finding was published in the Journal of the American Medical Associaton
> last April.
>
> Find this article at:http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet....exercise.reut/....
> html

Ben tiens..

Back home they are funded anyway... whether they get results or not.. at
least they ain't bugging anybody..
Will~

<mikesmith9999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169961989.674896.241700@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
Sick and tired of those studies. Researchers want their name in the
media and want to get funds to extend their research that will create
more media attraction which in turn will bring more funding.

On Jan 27, 2:44 pm, morgan-...@yahoo.com (Morgan) wrote:
> Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>
> Story Highlights· Eating less, exercising more equally good at helping
> take
> off pounds, study finds
> · Research adds to evidence that adding muscle mass does not boost
> metabolism
> · Dieting alone also did not appear to cause loss of muscle mass along
> with
> fat
>
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Eating less and exercising more are equally good
> at
> helping take off the pounds, U.S. researchers said Friday in a study that
> challenges many of the popular tenets of the multibillion dollar diet and
> fitness industry.
>
> Tests on overweight people show that a calorie is just a calorie, whether
> lost by dieting or by running, they said.
>
> They found there is no way to selectively lose belly fat, for instance, or
> trim thighs. And their carefully controlled study added to evidence that
> adding muscle mass does not somehow boost metabolism and help dieters take
> off even more weight.
>
> "It's all about the calories," said Dr. Eric Ravussin of the Pennington
> Biomedical Research Center, part of Louisiana State University in Baton
> Rouge.
>
> "So long as the energy deficit is the same, body weight, fat weight, and
> abdominal fat will all decrease in the same way."
>
> Ravussin said the study, published in the Journal of Clinical
> Endocrinology
> & Metabolism, is one of the few done under controlled conditions that can
> & actually demonstrate what happens to a human body while dieting and
> & exercising.
>
> Ravussin's team has been testing volunteers for another reason -- to see
> whether taking in fewer calories helps people live longer. Strict diets
> have been shown to help animals from worms to dogs live longer, but it
> takes longer to study monkeys and humans.
>
> They tested 24 people, 12 who ate a calorie-restricted diet, and 12 who
> dieted and also exercised five times a week for six months.
>
> The dieters ate 25 percent less than normal, while the exercisers reduced
> their calorie intake by 12.5 percent and increased their physical activity
> to lose an extra 12.5 percent in calories.
>
> An additional 10 volunteers acted as controls. All food was provided by
> the
> university in carefully measured portions for most of the study.
>
> The volunteers in both groups lost about 10 percent of their body weight,
> 24 percent of their fat mass, and 27 percent of their abdominal visceral
> fat. Visceral fat is packed in between the internal organs and is
> considered the most dangerous type of fat, linked with heart disease and
> diabetes.
>
> The distribution of the fat on the body was not altered by either approach
> -- helping prove that there is no such thing as "spot reducing", Ravussin
> said in a telephone interview.
>
> This suggests that "individuals are genetically programmed for fat storage
> in a particular pattern and that this programming cannot easily be
> overcome," he added.
>
> Ravussin has published other studies that also dispute the idea that
> exercise builds muscle that helps people lose weight.
>
> "If anything, highly trained people are highly efficient, so they burn
> fewer calories at rest," Ravussin said.
>
> Dieting alone also did not appear to cause the volunteers to lose muscle
> mass along with fat, Ravussin's team found.
>
> "There is a concept that if you exercise, you are going to lose less of
> your muscle," he said. But his team found no evidence this is true.
>
> Ravussin believes exercise is crucial to health, however.
>
> "For overall health, an appropriate program of diet and exercise is still
> the best," he said.
>
> His team found some small suggestion that cutting 25 percent of calories
> by
> either diet or diet and exercise might extend life.
>
> "We found that 2 of the biomarkers of aging were improved -- core
> temperature was 0.4 to 0.5 degrees C less," he said. "Insulin, which has
> been shown to be a biomarker of aging, was reduced," Ravussin said. That
> finding was published in the Journal of the American Medical Associaton
> last April.
>
> Find this article
> at:http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet....exercise.reut/....
> html

Ben coudon!

On Jan 28, 12:42 am, "Willow Herself"
<willowki...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote:
> Ben tiens..
>
> Back home they are funded anyway... whether they get results or not.. at
> least they ain't bugging anybody..
> Will~
>
> <mikesmith9...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1169961989.674896.241700@p10g2000cwp.g ooglegroups.com...
> Sick and tired of those studies. Researchers want their name in the
> media and want to get funds to extend their research that will create
> more media attraction which in turn will bring more funding.
>
> On Jan 27, 2:44 pm, morgan-...@yahoo.com (Morgan) wrote:
>
>
>
> > Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>
> > Story Highlights· Eating less, exercising more equally good at helping
> > take
> > off pounds, study finds
> > · Research adds to evidence that adding muscle mass does not boost
> > metabolism
> > · Dieting alone also did not appear to cause loss of muscle mass along
> > with
> > fat
>
> > WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Eating less and exercising more are equally good
> > at
> > helping take off the pounds, U.S. researchers said Friday in a study that
> > challenges many of the popular tenets of the multibillion dollar diet and
> > fitness industry.
>
> > Tests on overweight people show that a calorie is just a calorie, whether
> > lost by dieting or by running, they said.
>
> > They found there is no way to selectively lose belly fat, for instance,or
> > trim thighs. And their carefully controlled study added to evidence that
> > adding muscle mass does not somehow boost metabolism and help dieters take
> > off even more weight.
>
> > "It's all about the calories," said Dr. Eric Ravussin of the Pennington
> > Biomedical Research Center, part of Louisiana State University in Baton
> > Rouge.
>
> > "So long as the energy deficit is the same, body weight, fat weight, and
> > abdominal fat will all decrease in the same way."
>
> > Ravussin said the study, published in the Journal of Clinical
> > Endocrinology
> > & Metabolism, is one of the few done under controlled conditions that can
> > & actually demonstrate what happens to a human body while dieting and
> > & exercising.
>
> > Ravussin's team has been testing volunteers for another reason -- to see
> > whether taking in fewer calories helps people live longer. Strict diets
> > have been shown to help animals from worms to dogs live longer, but it
> > takes longer to study monkeys and humans.
>
> > They tested 24 people, 12 who ate a calorie-restricted diet, and 12 who
> > dieted and also exercised five times a week for six months.
>
> > The dieters ate 25 percent less than normal, while the exercisers reduced
> > their calorie intake by 12.5 percent and increased their physical activity
> > to lose an extra 12.5 percent in calories.
>
> > An additional 10 volunteers acted as controls. All food was provided by
> > the
> > university in carefully measured portions for most of the study.
>
> > The volunteers in both groups lost about 10 percent of their body weight,
> > 24 percent of their fat mass, and 27 percent of their abdominal visceral
> > fat. Visceral fat is packed in between the internal organs and is
> > considered the most dangerous type of fat, linked with heart disease and
> > diabetes.
>
> > The distribution of the fat on the body was not altered by either approach
> > -- helping prove that there is no such thing as "spot reducing", Ravussin
> > said in a telephone interview.
>
> > This suggests that "individuals are genetically programmed for fat storage
> > in a particular pattern and that this programming cannot easily be
> > overcome," he added.
>
> > Ravussin has published other studies that also dispute the idea that
> > exercise builds muscle that helps people lose weight.
>
> > "If anything, highly trained people are highly efficient, so they burn
> > fewer calories at rest," Ravussin said.
>
> > Dieting alone also did not appear to cause the volunteers to lose muscle
> > mass along with fat, Ravussin's team found.
>
> > "There is a concept that if you exercise, you are going to lose less of
> > your muscle," he said. But his team found no evidence this is true.
>
> > Ravussin believes exercise is crucial to health, however.
>
> > "For overall health, an appropriate program of diet and exercise is still
> > the best," he said.
>
> > His team found some small suggestion that cutting 25 percent of calories
> > by
> > either diet or diet and exercise might extend life.
>
> > "We found that 2 of the biomarkers of aging were improved -- core
> > temperature was 0.4 to 0.5 degrees C less," he said. "Insulin, which has
> > been shown to be a biomarker of aging, was reduced," Ravussin said. That
> > finding was published in the Journal of the American Medical Associaton
> > last April.
>
> > Find this article
> > at:http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet....exercise.reut/....
> > html- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

In article <R2PLZNAX39109.5312037037@anonymous.poster>,
morgan-s13@yahoo.com (Morgan) wrote:

> Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds

It would be hard to even count how many things are wrong with this study,
or how Reuters reported on it. Some times it's not the study that is
fu*&^, but the way the media reports on it. Regardless, the bulk of the
data out there is counter to this silly study. For something of a counter
point to this stdy, see:

A Unified Theory of Nutrition

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...catid=3&aid=18

Willow Herself wrote:

> What's with all the crossposting lately?

This information is on topic for all the groups it was posted to.

> Will~
>
> "Morgan" <morgan-s13@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:R2PLZNAX39109.5312037037@anonymous.poster...
> > Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
> >
> > Story Highlights. Eating less, exercising more equally good at
> > helping take
> > off pounds, study finds
> > . Research adds to evidence that adding muscle mass does not boost
> > metabolism
> > . Dieting alone also did not appear to cause loss of muscle mass
> > along with
> > fat
> >
> > WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Eating less and exercising more are equally
> > good at
> > helping take off the pounds, U.S. researchers said Friday in a
> > study that challenges many of the popular tenets of the
> > multibillion dollar diet and fitness industry.
> >
> > Tests on overweight people show that a calorie is just a calorie,
> > whether lost by dieting or by running, they said.
> >
> > They found there is no way to selectively lose belly fat, for
> > instance, or trim thighs. And their carefully controlled study
> > added to evidence that adding muscle mass does not somehow boost
> > metabolism and help dieters take off even more weight.
> >
> > "It's all about the calories," said Dr. Eric Ravussin of the
> > Pennington Biomedical Research Center, part of Louisiana State
> > University in Baton Rouge.
> >
> > "So long as the energy deficit is the same, body weight, fat
> > weight, and abdominal fat will all decrease in the same way."
> >
> > Ravussin said the study, published in the Journal of Clinical
> > Endocrinology
> > & Metabolism, is one of the few done under controlled conditions
> > that can & actually demonstrate what happens to a human body while
> > dieting and & exercising.
> >
> > Ravussin's team has been testing volunteers for another reason --
> > to see whether taking in fewer calories helps people live longer.
> > Strict diets have been shown to help animals from worms to dogs
> > live longer, but it takes longer to study monkeys and humans.
> >
> > They tested 24 people, 12 who ate a calorie-restricted diet, and 12
> > who dieted and also exercised five times a week for six months.
> >
> > The dieters ate 25 percent less than normal, while the exercisers
> > reduced their calorie intake by 12.5 percent and increased their
> > physical activity to lose an extra 12.5 percent in calories.
> >
> > An additional 10 volunteers acted as controls. All food was
> > provided by the
> > university in carefully measured portions for most of the study.
> >
> > The volunteers in both groups lost about 10 percent of their body
> > weight, 24 percent of their fat mass, and 27 percent of their
> > abdominal visceral fat. Visceral fat is packed in between the
> > internal organs and is considered the most dangerous type of fat,
> > linked with heart disease and diabetes.
> >
> > The distribution of the fat on the body was not altered by either
> > approach -- helping prove that there is no such thing as "spot
> > reducing", Ravussin said in a telephone interview.
> >
> > This suggests that "individuals are genetically programmed for fat
> > storage in a particular pattern and that this programming cannot
> > easily be overcome," he added.
> >
> > Ravussin has published other studies that also dispute the idea that
> > exercise builds muscle that helps people lose weight.
> >
> > "If anything, highly trained people are highly efficient, so they
> > burn fewer calories at rest," Ravussin said.
> >
> > Dieting alone also did not appear to cause the volunteers to lose
> > muscle mass along with fat, Ravussin's team found.
> >
> > "There is a concept that if you exercise, you are going to lose
> > less of your muscle," he said. But his team found no evidence this
> > is true.
> >
> > Ravussin believes exercise is crucial to health, however.
> >
> > "For overall health, an appropriate program of diet and exercise is
> > still the best," he said.
> >
> > His team found some small suggestion that cutting 25 percent of
> > calories by
> > either diet or diet and exercise might extend life.
> >
> > "We found that 2 of the biomarkers of aging were improved -- core
> > temperature was 0.4 to 0.5 degrees C less," he said. "Insulin,
> > which has been shown to be a biomarker of aging, was reduced,"
> > Ravussin said. That finding was published in the Journal of the
> > American Medical Associaton last April.
> >
> >
> > Find this article at:
> > http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet.....exercise.reut
> > /index. html
> >
> >

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:31:21 -0800, "Gary G"

<mrhiggins1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Someone is determined that they are going to shove this drek down our
throat.

Lose weight-shoot a troll.

LV

"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."

---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones

;o)

<mikesmith9999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169965510.177312.11100@j27g2000cwj.googlegro ups.com...
Ben coudon!

On Jan 28, 12:42 am, "Willow Herself"
<willowki...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote:
> Ben tiens..
>
> Back home they are funded anyway... whether they get results or not.. at
> least they ain't bugging anybody..
> Will~
>
> <mikesmith9...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:1169961989.674896.241700@p10g2000cwp.g ooglegroups.com...
> Sick and tired of those studies. Researchers want their name in the
> media and want to get funds to extend their research that will create
> more media attraction which in turn will bring more funding.
>
> On Jan 27, 2:44 pm, morgan-...@yahoo.com (Morgan) wrote:
>
>
>
> > Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>
> > Story Highlights· Eating less, exercising more equally good at helping
> > take
> > off pounds, study finds
> > · Research adds to evidence that adding muscle mass does not boost
> > metabolism
> > · Dieting alone also did not appear to cause loss of muscle mass along
> > with
> > fat
>
> > WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Eating less and exercising more are equally good
> > at
> > helping take off the pounds, U.S. researchers said Friday in a study
> > that
> > challenges many of the popular tenets of the multibillion dollar diet
> > and
> > fitness industry.
>
> > Tests on overweight people show that a calorie is just a calorie,
> > whether
> > lost by dieting or by running, they said.
>
> > They found there is no way to selectively lose belly fat, for instance,
> > or
> > trim thighs. And their carefully controlled study added to evidence that
> > adding muscle mass does not somehow boost metabolism and help dieters
> > take
> > off even more weight.
>
> > "It's all about the calories," said Dr. Eric Ravussin of the Pennington
> > Biomedical Research Center, part of Louisiana State University in Baton
> > Rouge.
>
> > "So long as the energy deficit is the same, body weight, fat weight, and
> > abdominal fat will all decrease in the same way."
>
> > Ravussin said the study, published in the Journal of Clinical
> > Endocrinology
> > & Metabolism, is one of the few done under controlled conditions that
> > can
> > & actually demonstrate what happens to a human body while dieting and
> > & exercising.
>
> > Ravussin's team has been testing volunteers for another reason -- to see
> > whether taking in fewer calories helps people live longer. Strict diets
> > have been shown to help animals from worms to dogs live longer, but it
> > takes longer to study monkeys and humans.
>
> > They tested 24 people, 12 who ate a calorie-restricted diet, and 12 who
> > dieted and also exercised five times a week for six months.
>
> > The dieters ate 25 percent less than normal, while the exercisers
> > reduced
> > their calorie intake by 12.5 percent and increased their physical
> > activity
> > to lose an extra 12.5 percent in calories.
>
> > An additional 10 volunteers acted as controls. All food was provided by
> > the
> > university in carefully measured portions for most of the study.
>
> > The volunteers in both groups lost about 10 percent of their body
> > weight,
> > 24 percent of their fat mass, and 27 percent of their abdominal visceral
> > fat. Visceral fat is packed in between the internal organs and is
> > considered the most dangerous type of fat, linked with heart disease and
> > diabetes.
>
> > The distribution of the fat on the body was not altered by either
> > approach
> > -- helping prove that there is no such thing as "spot reducing",
> > Ravussin
> > said in a telephone interview.
>
> > This suggests that "individuals are genetically programmed for fat
> > storage
> > in a particular pattern and that this programming cannot easily be
> > overcome," he added.
>
> > Ravussin has published other studies that also dispute the idea that
> > exercise builds muscle that helps people lose weight.
>
> > "If anything, highly trained people are highly efficient, so they burn
> > fewer calories at rest," Ravussin said.
>
> > Dieting alone also did not appear to cause the volunteers to lose muscle
> > mass along with fat, Ravussin's team found.
>
> > "There is a concept that if you exercise, you are going to lose less of
> > your muscle," he said. But his team found no evidence this is true.
>
> > Ravussin believes exercise is crucial to health, however.
>
> > "For overall health, an appropriate program of diet and exercise is
> > still
> > the best," he said.
>
> > His team found some small suggestion that cutting 25 percent of calories
> > by
> > either diet or diet and exercise might extend life.
>
> > "We found that 2 of the biomarkers of aging were improved -- core
> > temperature was 0.4 to 0.5 degrees C less," he said. "Insulin, which has
> > been shown to be a biomarker of aging, was reduced," Ravussin said. That
> > finding was published in the Journal of the American Medical Associaton
> > last April.
>
> > Find this article
> > at:http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet....exercise.reut/....
> > html- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

"Willow Herself" <willowkinda@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote in
message news:H0cvh.1791$4H1.1790@newssvr17.news.prodigy.ne t...
> ;o)
>
> <mikesmith9999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1169965510.177312.11100@j27g2000cwj.googlegro ups.com...
> Ben coudon!
>
> On Jan 28, 12:42 am, "Willow Herself"
> <willowki...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote:
>> Ben tiens..
>>
>> Back home they are funded anyway... whether they get results or not..
>> at
>> least they ain't bugging anybody..
>> Will~
>>
>> <mikesmith9...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:1169961989.674896.241700@p10g2000cwp.g ooglegroups.com...
>> Sick and tired of those studies. Researchers want their name in the
>> media and want to get funds to extend their research that will create
>> more media attraction which in turn will bring more funding.
>>
>> On Jan 27, 2:44 pm, morgan-...@yahoo.com (Morgan) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>>
>> > Story Highlights· Eating less, exercising more equally good at
>> > helping
>> > take
>> > off pounds, study finds
>> > · Research adds to evidence that adding muscle mass does not boost
>> > metabolism
>> > · Dieting alone also did not appear to cause loss of muscle mass
>> > along
>> > with
>> > fat
>>
>> > WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Eating less and exercising more are equally
>> > good
>> > at
>> > helping take off the pounds, U.S. researchers said Friday in a study
>> > that
>> > challenges many of the popular tenets of the multibillion dollar
>> > diet and
>> > fitness industry.
>>
>> > Tests on overweight people show that a calorie is just a calorie,
>> > whether
>> > lost by dieting or by running, they said.
>>
>> > They found there is no way to selectively lose belly fat, for
>> > instance, or
>> > trim thighs. And their carefully controlled study added to evidence
>> > that
>> > adding muscle mass does not somehow boost metabolism and help
>> > dieters take
>> > off even more weight.
>>
>> > "It's all about the calories," said Dr. Eric Ravussin of the
>> > Pennington
>> > Biomedical Research Center, part of Louisiana State University in
>> > Baton
>> > Rouge.
>>
>> > "So long as the energy deficit is the same, body weight, fat weight,
>> > and
>> > abdominal fat will all decrease in the same way."
>>
>> > Ravussin said the study, published in the Journal of Clinical
>> > Endocrinology
>> > & Metabolism, is one of the few done under controlled conditions
>> > that can
>> > & actually demonstrate what happens to a human body while dieting
>> > and
>> > & exercising.
>>
>> > Ravussin's team has been testing volunteers for another reason -- to
>> > see
>> > whether taking in fewer calories helps people live longer. Strict
>> > diets
>> > have been shown to help animals from worms to dogs live longer, but
>> > it
>> > takes longer to study monkeys and humans.
>>
>> > They tested 24 people, 12 who ate a calorie-restricted diet, and 12
>> > who
>> > dieted and also exercised five times a week for six months.
>>
>> > The dieters ate 25 percent less than normal, while the exercisers
>> > reduced
>> > their calorie intake by 12.5 percent and increased their physical
>> > activity
>> > to lose an extra 12.5 percent in calories.
>>
>> > An additional 10 volunteers acted as controls. All food was provided
>> > by
>> > the
>> > university in carefully measured portions for most of the study.
>>
>> > The volunteers in both groups lost about 10 percent of their body
>> > weight,
>> > 24 percent of their fat mass, and 27 percent of their abdominal
>> > visceral
>> > fat. Visceral fat is packed in between the internal organs and is
>> > considered the most dangerous type of fat, linked with heart disease
>> > and
>> > diabetes.
>>
>> > The distribution of the fat on the body was not altered by either
>> > approach
>> > -- helping prove that there is no such thing as "spot reducing",
>> > Ravussin
>> > said in a telephone interview.
>>
>> > This suggests that "individuals are genetically programmed for fat
>> > storage
>> > in a particular pattern and that this programming cannot easily be
>> > overcome," he added.
>>
>> > Ravussin has published other studies that also dispute the idea that
>> > exercise builds muscle that helps people lose weight.
>>
>> > "If anything, highly trained people are highly efficient, so they
>> > burn
>> > fewer calories at rest," Ravussin said.
>>
>> > Dieting alone also did not appear to cause the volunteers to lose
>> > muscle
>> > mass along with fat, Ravussin's team found.
>>
>> > "There is a concept that if you exercise, you are going to lose less
>> > of
>> > your muscle," he said. But his team found no evidence this is true.
>>
>> > Ravussin believes exercise is crucial to health, however.
>>
>> > "For overall health, an appropriate program of diet and exercise is
>> > still
>> > the best," he said.
>>
>> > His team found some small suggestion that cutting 25 percent of
>> > calories
>> > by
>> > either diet or diet and exercise might extend life.
>>
>> > "We found that 2 of the biomarkers of aging were improved -- core
>> > temperature was 0.4 to 0.5 degrees C less," he said. "Insulin, which
>> > has
>> > been shown to be a biomarker of aging, was reduced," Ravussin said.
>> > That
>> > finding was published in the Journal of the American Medical
>> > Associaton
>> > last April.
>>
>> > Find this article
>> > at:http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet....exercise.reut/....
>> > html- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
>
I wonder how much lean body mass one can add in 6 months of the kind of
exercise, presumably aerobic, that the test subjects did? But it was
interesting that there was apparently no difference in the ending body
composition between a group that exercised and one that didn't.

Snip

"Del Cecchi" <delcecchiofthenorth@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:52510aF1mvj3bU1@mid.individual.net...

> I wonder how much lean body mass one can add in 6 months of the kind of
> exercise, presumably aerobic, that the test subjects did? But it was
> interesting that there was apparently no difference in the ending body
> composition between a group that exercised and one that didn't.
>

It takes an awfully huge amount of exercise to "build muscle".. in 6 month,
you won't add much... even less by doing Cardio..

Will~

Will Brink <willbrink@comcast.net> wrote:
> morgan-s13@yahoo.com (Morgan) wrote:
>> Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>
> It would be hard to even count how many things are wrong with this
> study, or how Reuters reported on it. Some times it's not the study
> that is fu*&^, but the way the media reports on it. Regardless, the
> bulk of the data out there is counter to this silly study. For
> something of a counter point to this stdy, see: A Unified Theory of
> Nutrition
> http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...catid=3&aid=18

They said that their study is unique in that it was done under
controlled conditions which allowed to demonstrate what happens to a
body while dieting and exercising. Any specific critique of the
design? Here is a link to the original study (free access) -
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/rap...006-2184v1.pdf

["Followup-To:" header set to misc.fitness.weights.]
Dnia 2007-01-29 DZ napisa³(a):
> Will Brink <willbrink@comcast.net> wrote:
>> morgan-s13@yahoo.com (Morgan) wrote:
>>> Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>>
>> It would be hard to even count how many things are wrong with this
>> study, or how Reuters reported on it. Some times it's not the study
>> that is fu*&^, but the way the media reports on it. Regardless, the
>> bulk of the data out there is counter to this silly study. For
>> something of a counter point to this stdy, see: A Unified Theory of
>> Nutrition
>> http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...catid=3&aid=18
>
> They said that their study is unique in that it was done under
> controlled conditions which allowed to demonstrate what happens to a
> body while dieting and exercising. Any specific critique of the
> design? Here is a link to the original study (free access) -
> http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/rap...006-2184v1.pdf

Exercise was supposed to consume 12.5% of daily consumed calories.
They wrote that women expended 405 kcal on average and men 569 kcal.
It turns out that an average overweight woman eats around 3300 kcal and
man 4500 kcal. It's quite a lot.

--
Andrzej Rosa

On Jan 29, 9:39 am, DZ <2...@33114800.834111461.6517.26520.32355>
wrote:
> Will Brink <willbr...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > morgan-...@yahoo.com (Morgan) wrote:
> >> Diet, exercise take off equal pounds, study finds
>
> > It would be hard to even count how many things are wrong with this
> > study, or how Reuters reported on it. Some times it's not the study
> > that is fu*&^, but the way the media reports on it. Regardless, the
> > bulk of the data out there is counter to this silly study. For
> > something of a counter point to this stdy, see: A Unified Theory of
> > Nutrition
> >http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...d=3&aid=18They said that their study is unique in that it was done under
> controlled conditions which allowed to demonstrate what happens to a
> body while dieting and exercising. Any specific critique of the
> design? Here is a link to the original study (free access) -http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/rapidpdf/jc.2006-2184v1.pdf

Where to start? We know that all studies are inherently flawed, just
some better than others.

I would start, without even reading the paper with the sample size. We
are going to make definitive statements about the entire human race
based on the weight loss differences between two groups of 12 people?
A total of 24? In terms of margin of error, I don't know that you can
say much about anything (besides 24 people) with 24 people. This alone
makes it pretty hard to swallow.

Now, lemme look at the methodology.
First: We are looking at things in a calorie-is-a-calorie sense of the
universe. The fact of the matter is that this view is not consistent
with the second law of thermodynamics. That's not my opinion. I'm not
that smart. That's what this paper says:
http://proteinpower.com/forum/attachment.php?
attachmentid=7&d=1141961325
Now, I'm not one to play with fundamental laws of physics, but
apparently the authors of the study are.

Next: I might quibble with the findings: Their observation, based on a
very small sample that might skew the results is that cal restriction
works as well as 1/2 cal restriction and 1/2 exercise increase (from a
caloric POV), is that they lost the same amount of weight +/- .8 lbs.
It could be the same, it could be 1.6 lbs different. Ditto fat mass
(where their observation is actually 5.8 +/- .6 for CR and 6.4+/- .6
for CR+EX, a possible difference of up to 1.8 whatevers. The units are
not explained well). Also ditto for VAT.

Next: For about 40% of the trial period (10 weeks out of 24), the
study participants used food journals to report their caloric input. I
hope I don't have to explain the problems with that.

The Last Thing I'm gonna look at is: The type of exercise. They did
"slow cardio." What they did was pick a cardio exercise (treadmill,
stairmaster, stationary bike), and ramp up over 6 weeks to the level
of caloric burn they should be up to. They looked at them with heart
monitors (Polar s-610), and figured out how long they should be on the
treadmill (et al) given their caloric output need. Why this is flawed?
Couple things:
1- EVERYBODY knows that "slow cardio" is not the way to lose weight.
Well, maybe not everybody, but anyone who is up on the literature
knows that, if you are looking to lose weight and see "improved
metabolic effects" you should be doing some kind of High Intensity
Intervals. You get the effects of running for 10.5 hours a week with
only 2.5 hours per week according to a British study (all the effects,
plus you get 8 hours back to do whatever with). This type of workout
creates the "afterburn" where you continue to burn more calories for
up to 48 hours, post workout. "Slow Cardio" fails to do this, thus,
the extra 8 hours of steady state road running.

2- NOBODY expects to build muscle or significantly alter body
composition with Cardio. Well, maybe not NOBODY, but no one who is up
on the literature. Building muscle takes resistance exercises.
Stationary bike is not resistance exercise, no matter how high you
crank the resistance (I suppose if you could theoretically push it to
like 50, but you would lose the cardio effects, right?). A better
study might have them do some weight lifting, burn something like 10%
of their calories with resistance, and eat the goofy AHA diet, but at
the full caloric requirement. See who builds more muscle and burns
more fat. Or, replace the cardio with Sprint Intervals, and see who
burns more fat.

After reading this portion of the description, I am not surprised that
they found what they found. It's what the study was designed for. It
takes NONE of the knowledge that is easily available regarding muscle
building or efficient cardio training and it takes none of the
knowledge on efficient dieting or nutrition. Let's design a better
study. Design each diet from the ground up with the proper strategy.
An example:

We are going to see if Diet and Exercise take off equal pounds, VAT,
body fat. So, we want to do a traditional diet, like the AHA 25% cal
restriction they used in this goofy study. For the exercise model, we
are going to try to build muscle and jack metabolism. So, the workouts
will look like this: Big muscle targeting circuit workouts, with a
couple days of sprint intervals. What kind of diet is going to support
muscle building? I would suggest something like the Zone or Protein
Power. Something with a real dose of protein and reduced carbs. Enough
fat to burn for energy. Yeah. If you want controls, we can have four
groups, one AHA 25% Cal Reduction, one AHA with 25% Cal Expend in
smarter workouts, one PP no exercise, and one PP with smarter
workouts. Then, you might be able to say something for real. This
study, as it is, is at best, ignorant, and at worst, willfully so.

-Hollywood, who loves junk science.

Hollywood <maxlharris@gmail.com> wrote:
> DZ wrote:
>> They said that their study is unique in that it was done under
>> controlled conditions which allowed to demonstrate what happens to a
>> body while dieting and exercising. Any specific critique of the
>> design? Here is a link to the original study (free access) -
>> http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/rap...006-2184v1.pdf
>
> Where to start? We know that all studies are inherently flawed, just
> some better than others.
>
> I would start, without even reading the paper with the sample size. We
> are going to make definitive statements about the entire human race
> based on the weight loss differences between two groups of 12 people?
> A total of 24? In terms of margin of error, I don't know that you can
> say much about anything (besides 24 people) with 24 people. This alone
> makes it pretty hard to swallow.

You cannot talk about the "margin of error" in terms of the sample
size alone. In other words, a small sample size can either be
sufficient or not depending on the problem and the underlying
distribution.

I would still be interested if they for example thoroughly followed
just a SINGLE pair of identical twins and made conclusions about those
twins only. In fact I know a pair of twin scientists (geneticists) who
have been living on two drastically different diets for many years. In
this case, "sample size" (the amount of observations on this pair) is
quite large, and there is certainly something to learn from
experiments like that that concerns other humans.

I would still be interested if they had ZERO humans instead of the 24,
and did a similar experiment using 10,000 rats.

> Now, lemme look at the methodology.
> First: We are looking at things in a calorie-is-a-calorie sense of the
> universe. The fact of the matter is that this view is not consistent
> with the second law of thermodynamics. That's not my opinion. I'm not
> that smart. That's what this paper says:
> http://proteinpower.com/forum/attach...7&d=1141961325
> Now, I'm not one to play with fundamental laws of physics, but
> apparently the authors of the study are.

No, the paper you quote is saying that a calorie-is-a-calorie doesn't
need to be the case, and perhaps never is, when measured well enough
to detect even most minuscule differences. That doesn't mean that a
certain diet containing X cals cannot approximately counterbalance X
cals spent through a certain exercise mode.

> Next: I might quibble with the findings: Their observation, based on a
> very small sample that might skew the results is that cal restriction
> works as well as 1/2 cal restriction and 1/2 exercise increase (from a
> caloric POV), is that they lost the same amount of weight +/- .8 lbs.
> It could be the same, it could be 1.6 lbs different.

No, they lost what they lost. Apparently you're trying to use the
sample variability or the confidence limits to directly reflect
uncertainty about the population mean. This is a a statistical mistake
(technically, this woul