Obesity Driving Rising U.S. Health Costs

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20071003...gushealthcosts

By Steven Reinberg
HealthDay Reporter
Tue Oct 2, 11:45 PM ET

TUESDAY, Oct. 2 (HealthDay News) -- Obesity is a big factor driving soaring
rates of chronic disease in the United States, with many more Americans
chronically ill than their European counterparts, a new study finds.

It's an expensive problem, too: According to researchers, chronic illnesses
such as diabetes and heart disease account for some $100 to $150 billion in
health-care spending in the United States each year.

"The United States spends twice as much as European countries on health
care," noted lead researcher Kenneth Thorpe, chairman of the department of
health policy and management at Emory University's Rollins School of Public
Health in Atlanta. "Seventy-five percent of what we spend in this country
is associated with patients that have one or more chronic conditions and
most of the growth is due to obesity."

"We have got to find more effective means to reduce, and at the worst,
stabilize this persistent rise in obesity among adults and kids in this
country," he said.

In addition, experts must find better and less expensive ways of managing
chronic health-care problems, Thorpe said.

"That's where all the money is being spent," he said. "We are not going to
control costs until we get the level and growth in chronic disease
prevalence down."

The report appears in the Oct. 2 online edition of Health Affairs.

In the study, Thorpe's team compared 2004 data on the prevalence and
treatment of diseases among adults aged 50 and older in the United States
and Austria, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Spain,
Sweden and Switzerland.

They report that about 17 percent of European adults are obese, compared
with around a third of American adults. In addition, 53 percent of adult
Americans are either former or current smokers, compared with 43 percent of
those in Europe. American adults were also more likely than Europeans to
have heart disease, cancer, diabetes and chronic lung disease -- all
associated with obesity and/or smoking.

"The United States spends more on health care than any country in Europe,"
Thorpe said. In the United States, in 2004 the per capita spending on
health care was $6,102 -- about twice as much as in the Netherlands and
Germany, and almost twice that of France.

If the prevalence of obesity could be reduced (and along with it, chronic
disease), Thorpe's team estimates that health spending could be cut by $100
billion to $150 billion per year, trimming up to 18.7 percent off the
nation's total health-care budget.

There are several reasons for the costs of chronic disease in the United
States, Thorpe's group notes. In addition to high rates of obesity and
smoking, these include more aggressive cancer screening in the United
States than in Europe, and more intensive drug treatment for chronic
disease than in Europe, further driving up costs.

Thorpe believes the only way to get health-care costs under control is to
find ways to reduce obesity. "There is a lack of an effective primary-care
system in this country," he said. "We have to manage patients with chronic
conditions more effectively, and we have got to find a way to prevent this
rise in obesity."

One expert agreed with the scope of the problem, but said solutions remain
elusive.

"There are two reasons why the U.S. might spend more of our total economy
on health care than any other country -- treatment here costs more, and
more of us need treatment," said Dr. David L. Katz, director of the
Prevention Research Center at Yale University School of Medicine.

That Americans are fatter than Europeans comes as no surprise, Katz said,
but that more Americans smoke is surprising. "This finding does make me
question the reliability of the data to some degree. But even if we know
for sure that Americans have more chronic disease risk factors than
populations abroad, it doesn't necessarily tell us how to fix the problem,"
he said.

Obesity rates in Europe are rising fast, so "we are exporting our bad
example and higher health-care costs may well follow [there]," Katz said.
"Without a doubt, the high costs of health care are best reduced by the
propagation of health. Defining how best to get there from here is as yet a
challenge inadequately met."

Another health-care cost expert agreed.

"I'm not sure obesity is a medical condition that lends itself to medical
treatment," said Greg Scandlen, the founder of Consumers for Health Care
Choices, a health-care lobbying group. "Certainly, it does suggest the need
for more exercise and better diets, but that is a grandmother's advice. Do
we need highly trained and expensive professionals telling people what
grandmothers have told them for free for generations?"

"I'm just not sure this information is of much use to the health-care
system, though it may be for the education system," Scandlen said. His
suggestions? "Bring back P.E. classes, [use the] transportation system, use
more bicycles and fewer cars, and urban design, get rid of escalators so
people will walk up stairs," he said.

More information

For more information on the cost of health care, visit the Kaiser Family
Foundation.

Oliver <oliver21@hotmail.com> wrote

> http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20071003...gushealthcosts

> By Steven Reinberg
> HealthDay Reporter
> Tue Oct 2, 11:45 PM ET

> TUESDAY, Oct. 2 (HealthDay News) -- Obesity is a big factor
> driving soaring rates of chronic disease in the United States,

It is however swamped by a number of other more important factors.

> with many more Americans chronically ill than
> their European counterparts, a new study finds.

Thats just plain wrong when you compare like with like
and compare lifespans with demographics allowed for.

> It's an expensive problem, too: According to researchers, chronic
> illnesses such as diabetes and heart disease account for some $100
> to $150 billion in health-care spending in the United States each year.

Thats primarily due to the stupid way US health care funding is done.

> "The United States spends twice as much as European countries on health care,"

And that is entirely due to the stupid way US health care funding is done.
All those massive insurance bureaucracys have to be paid for somehow.

> noted lead researcher Kenneth Thorpe, chairman of the department
> of health policy and management at Emory University's Rollins School
> of Public Health in Atlanta. "Seventy-five percent of what we spend in this
> country is associated with patients that have one or more chronic conditions

Just as true of all the other first world countrys.

> and most of the growth is due to obesity."

No it isnt. Most of the growth is in fact due to us all living longer.

> "We have got to find more effective means to reduce, and at the worst, stabilize
> this persistent rise in obesity among adults and kids in this country," he said.

Easy to say, hell of a lot harder to actually achieve.

> In addition, experts must find better and less expensive
> ways of managing chronic health-care problems, Thorpe said.

The real problem is the stupid way the US funds its health care.

Every other first world country has come to its senses and fixed that.

> "That's where all the money is being spent," he said.

Just as true of all the other first world countrys.

> "We are not going to control costs until we get the
> level and growth in chronic disease prevalence down."

Not even possible with an aging population.

> The report appears in the Oct. 2 online edition of Health Affairs.

> In the study, Thorpe's team compared 2004 data on the prevalence
> and treatment of diseases among adults aged 50 and older in the
> United States and Austria, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece,
> Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland.

> They report that about 17 percent of European adults are
> obese, compared with around a third of American adults.

Thats a mindlessly superficial comparison. And its stupid to not
be comparing the groups with the similar ethnic backgrounds too.

> In addition, 53 percent of adult Americans are either former or
> current smokers, compared with 43 percent of those in Europe.

Largely due to the different living standards
and the lower taxation of smoking in the US.

> American adults were also more likely than Europeans
> to have heart disease, cancer, diabetes and chronic lung
> disease -- all associated with obesity and/or smoking.

And its no surprise that you dont actually cite a
figure there, the difference is actually quite small.

> "The United States spends more on health care than any country
> in Europe," Thorpe said. In the United States, in 2004 the per
> capita spending on health care was $6,102 -- about twice as much
> as in the Netherlands and Germany, and almost twice that of France.

And that is entirely due to the stupid way US health care funding is done.
All those massive insurance bureaucracys have to be paid for somehow.

> If the prevalence of obesity could be reduced (and along with it,
> chronic disease), Thorpe's team estimates that health spending
> could be cut by $100 billion to $150 billion per year, trimming up
> to 18.7 percent off the nation's total health-care budget.

Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

And you've just ignored the cost of doing that too.

> There are several reasons for the costs of chronic disease in the
> United States, Thorpe's group notes. In addition to high rates of
> obesity and smoking, these include more aggressive cancer screening
> in the United States than in Europe, and more intensive drug
> treatment for chronic disease than in Europe, further driving up costs.

And you've ignore the real reason, the different
way health care costs are funded in the US.

> Thorpe believes the only way to get health-care
> costs under control is to find ways to reduce obesity.

More fool Thorpe.

> "There is a lack of an effective primary-care system in this country," he said.

No there isnt. The problem is with how its paid for.

> "We have to manage patients with chronic conditions more effectively,

Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually show how that can be done.

> and we have got to find a way to prevent this rise in obesity."

Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually show how that can be done.

> One expert agreed with the scope of the problem, but said solutions remain elusive.

Must be one of those rocket scientist ex-spurts.

> "There are two reasons why the U.S. might spend more of our total
> economy on health care than any other country -- treatment here costs
> more, and more of us need treatment," said Dr. David L. Katz, director
> of the Prevention Research Center at Yale University School of Medicine.

The main reason the US spends more is the stupid way health care costs
are funded, the last first world country to rely entirely on insurance for that.

> That Americans are fatter than Europeans comes as no surprise,
> Katz said, but that more Americans smoke is surprising.

Nope, its the result of a higher standard of living, just like car use
is, and lower taxation of the product, again just like with car use.

> "This finding does make me question the reliability of the data to some degree.

More fool you.

> But even if we know for sure that Americans have more
> chronic disease risk factors than populations abroad, it
> doesn't necessarily tell us how to fix the problem," he said.

Must be one of those rocket scientist ex-spurts.

> Obesity rates in Europe are rising fast,

Funny that.

> so "we are exporting our bad example

Nope. Those countrys are experiencing the same causes.

> and higher health-care costs may well follow [there]," Katz said.

But they have had enough of a clue to do something
about how they fund their health care costs.

> "Without a doubt, the high costs of health care
> are best reduced by the propagation of health.

Not even possible when the primary cause of that is the aging of the population.

> Defining how best to get there from here is as yet a challenge inadequately met."

Not even possible when the primary cause of that is the aging of the population.

> Another health-care cost expert agreed.

Well whoopy bloody do.

> "I'm not sure obesity is a medical condition that lends itself
> to medical treatment," said Greg Scandlen, the founder of
> Consumers for Health Care Choices, a health-care lobbying group.

Corse it isnt. Its a lifestyle issue, stupid.

> "Certainly, it does suggest the need for more exercise
> and better diets, but that is a grandmother's advice.

No one listens to grandmothers anymore.

> Do we need highly trained and expensive professionals telling
> people what grandmothers have told them for free for generations?"

No one would take any notice of them either.

> "I'm just not sure this information is of much use to the health-care
> system, though it may be for the education system," Scandlen said.

Nope.

> His suggestions? "Bring back P.E. classes, [use the] transportation
> system, use more bicycles and fewer cars, and urban design, get
> rid of escalators so people will walk up stairs," he said.

Mindlessly silly. That wouldnt fix the problem.

> More information

> For more information on the cost of health care, visit the Kaiser Family Foundation.

No thanks, they couldnt even get the most basic problem right.

Wow Rod...
How did you have the patience to wade through all that BS? You must
have a nicer shovel than me.

wifezilla@gmail.com wrote:

> Wow Rod...
> How did you have the patience to wade through all that BS?

I can read a hell of a lot faster than most.

Real problem when in hospital tho, burn thru books at one hell of a rate.

> You must have a nicer shovel than me.

Nope, just some skills.

On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Oliver wrote:

> TUESDAY, Oct. 2 (HealthDay News) -- Obesity is a big factor driving soaring
> rates of chronic disease in the United States, with many more Americans
> chronically ill than their European counterparts, a new study finds.

Really? Well then, I should go to my Doctor and get a RX for the latest
and greatest magic pill that makes me burn all sorts of energy, right?

You see, when a large person goes to the Doctor, they are told to lose
weight. "Oh gee Doctor, no one ever told me that before, you are such a
smart person" is probably the response they are expecting... So how do I
get skinny? Exercise my @$$ off (literally) and diet the rest of my life.

I work with someone who lost about 150 lbs. He did so by eating steamed
chicken breasts and veggies... That's ALL he eats... It's been several
years, he is still thin, but that's all he eats... That's not LIFE,
that's TORTURE. If he slips, he gains it back, so he is CONSTANTLY on his
diet. That's why diets fail, because eventually you get off it... The
only way to keep the weight off is to constantly diet.

> "We have got to find more effective means to reduce, and at the worst,
> stabilize this persistent rise in obesity among adults and kids in this
> country," he said.

Great! Invent the magic pill and I'll take it.

The Master <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote
> Oliver wrote

>> TUESDAY, Oct. 2 (HealthDay News) -- Obesity is a big factor driving
>> soaring rates of chronic disease in the United States, with many more Americans chronically ill than their European
>> counterparts, a new study finds.

> Really? Well then, I should go to my Doctor and get a RX for the latest and greatest magic pill that makes me burn
> all sorts of energy, right?

Wrong.

> You see, when a large person goes to the Doctor, they are told to lose
> weight. "Oh gee Doctor, no one ever told me that before, you are such a smart person" is probably the response they
> are expecting... So how do I get skinny? Exercise my @$$ off (literally) and diet the rest of my life.

Wrong again.

> I work with someone who lost about 150 lbs. He did so by eating steamed chicken breasts and veggies... That's ALL he
> eats... It's been several years, he is still thin, but that's all he eats... That's not LIFE, that's TORTURE. If he
> slips, he gains it back, so he is CONSTANTLY on his diet.

Plenty including me, maintain my weight without that sort
of extreme measure, and dont bother with exercise either.

> That's why diets fail, because eventually you get off it...

Yes, it makes a lot more sense to just eat a little less instead.

> The only way to keep the weight off is to constantly diet.

Wrong. I didnt even bother to stop drinking beer.

>> "We have got to find more effective means to reduce, and at the worst, stabilize this persistent rise in obesity
>> among adults and kids in this country," he said.

> Great! Invent the magic pill and I'll take it.

No magic pill needed, just a bit of basic sense.

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Rod Speed wrote:

>> You see, when a large person goes to the Doctor, they are told to lose
>> weight. "Oh gee Doctor, no one ever told me that before, you are such
>> a smart person" is probably the response they
>> are expecting... So how do I get skinny? Exercise my @$$ off
>> (literally) and diet the rest of my life.
>
> Wrong again.
>
>> I work with someone who lost about 150 lbs. He did so by eating steamed chicken breasts and veggies... That's ALL he
>> eats... It's been several years, he is still thin, but that's all he eats... That's not LIFE, that's TORTURE. If he
>> slips, he gains it back, so he is CONSTANTLY on his diet.
>
> Plenty including me, maintain my weight without that sort
> of extreme measure, and dont bother with exercise either.
>>
> Yes, it makes a lot more sense to just eat a little less instead.
>
>> The only way to keep the weight off is to constantly diet.
>
> Wrong. I didnt even bother to stop drinking beer.

Here are the choices that I have been "told" when it comes to how to
lose weight over the years.

1) Exercise exercise exercise... Working your butt off to burn more
calories so you lose weight.
2) Portion control. Eat much less, so you take in less calories.
3) Diet. Eat food you normally would never touch, just because it has so
much less calories.

If you have a number 4, please let me know, because it looks like you
support number 2. Again, it's nothing new. I have heard it all before.

Yes, if I follow that path, I will lose weight. However, the problem is
that I have to constantly focus on it. It takes a lot of time and energy
to do either one of those three choices. And you can never stop worrying
about it... Slipping or stoping isn't an option, it must become your new
way of life.

Sorry, but in my case, that would be torture rather then life.

On Oct 5, 9:34 am, The Master <tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam>
wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Rod Speed wrote:
> >> You see, when a large person goes to the Doctor, they are told to lose
> >> weight. "Oh gee Doctor, no one ever told me that before, you are such
> >> a smart person" is probably the response they
> >> are expecting... So how do I get skinny? Exercise my @$$ off
> >> (literally) and diet the rest of my life.
>
> > Wrong again.
>
> >> I work with someone who lost about 150 lbs. He did so by eating steamed chicken breasts and veggies... That's ALL he
> >> eats... It's been several years, he is still thin, but that's all he eats... That's not LIFE, that's TORTURE. If he
> >> slips, he gains it back, so he is CONSTANTLY on his diet.
>
> > Plenty including me, maintain my weight without that sort
> > of extreme measure, and dont bother with exercise either.
>
> > Yes, it makes a lot more sense to just eat a little less instead.
>
> >> The only way to keep the weight off is to constantly diet.
>
> > Wrong. I didnt even bother to stop drinking beer.
>
> Here are the choices that I have been "told" when it comes to how to
> lose weight over the years.
>
> 1) Exercise exercise exercise... Working your butt off to burn more
> calories so you lose weight.
> 2) Portion control. Eat much less, so you take in less calories.
> 3) Diet. Eat food you normally would never touch, just because it has so
> much less calories.
>
> If you have a number 4, please let me know, because it looks like you
> support number 2. Again, it's nothing new. I have heard it all before.
>
> Yes, if I follow that path, I will lose weight. However, the problem is
> that I have to constantly focus on it. It takes a lot of time and energy
> to do either one of those three choices. And you can never stop worrying
> about it... Slipping or stoping isn't an option, it must become your new
> way of life.
>
> Sorry, but in my case, that would be torture rather then life.



4. Move to another country.
5. Re-train your palate, maybe take a course in wine tasting from a
reputable wine school as a start.
6. Hire a personal chef.
7. Have something absolutely horrid happen to you so you get so
nervous and upset that you can't eat.
8. Change your religion and fast for religious purposes.

On Oct 5, 9:34 am, The Master <tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam>
wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Rod Speed wrote:
> >> You see, when a large person goes to the Doctor, they are told to lose
> >> weight. "Oh gee Doctor, no one ever told me that before, you are such
> >> a smart person" is probably the response they
> >> are expecting... So how do I get skinny? Exercise my @$$ off
> >> (literally) and diet the rest of my life.
>
> > Wrong again.
>
> >> I work with someone who lost about 150 lbs. He did so by eating steamed chicken breasts and veggies... That's ALL he
> >> eats... It's been several years, he is still thin, but that's all he eats... That's not LIFE, that's TORTURE. If he
> >> slips, he gains it back, so he is CONSTANTLY on his diet.
>
> > Plenty including me, maintain my weight without that sort
> > of extreme measure, and dont bother with exercise either.
>
> > Yes, it makes a lot more sense to just eat a little less instead.
>
> >> The only way to keep the weight off is to constantly diet.
>
> > Wrong. I didnt even bother to stop drinking beer.
>
> Here are the choices that I have been "told" when it comes to how to
> lose weight over the years.
>
> 1) Exercise exercise exercise... Working your butt off to burn more
> calories so you lose weight.
> 2) Portion control. Eat much less, so you take in less calories.
> 3) Diet. Eat food you normally would never touch, just because it has so
> much less calories.
>
> If you have a number 4, please let me know, because it looks like you
> support number 2. Again, it's nothing new. I have heard it all before.

4) quit before you begin.

It's clear (from this and other Master posts) that you have your
excuses
and rationale all mapped out. If you have all the answers, why ask a
question? That's rhetorical.

Ultimately, #1 will not work for you. #2 will probably be more work
than
you are willing to put in. So, #3 or stay overweight, pay the price
and
count the cost.

#3 will require reframing in your mind. It's not about calories so
much. It's
not about foods you don't like. It's about finding a program you can
work.
It's about adjustment to what's not working for you currently. But
ultimately
either you want to change or you don't think the reward is worth the
effort.

> Yes, if I follow that path, I will lose weight. However, the problem is
> that I have to constantly focus on it. It takes a lot of time and energy
> to do either one of those three choices. And you can never stop worrying
> about it... Slipping or stoping isn't an option, it must become your new
> way of life.

You spend a few weeks, a couple months learning a new way of eating.
You get it down to 5-10 simple rules. And you can make it habit. Then
it's
automatic. It takes a lot of time and energy at the beginning. But
what
that is worthwhile doesn't? Did you become the Master of anything
overnight? With ease? Without effort?

> Sorry, but in my case, that would be torture rather then life.

You might know better if you tried first, then analyzed after you has
some
actual results.

I'm gonna throw this out there. You should check out Protein Power. It
might be doable with foods you like (it might not). It's not actually
that
hard. And it doesn't really involve going hungry. Or don't. Live your
life
how you want to.

The Master <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>>> You see, when a large person goes to the Doctor, they are told to lose weight. "Oh gee Doctor, no one ever told me
>>> that before, you are such a smart person" is probably the response they are expecting... So how do I get skinny?
>>> Exercise my @$$ off
>>> (literally) and diet the rest of my life.

>> Wrong again.

>>> I work with someone who lost about 150 lbs. He did so by eating
>>> steamed chicken breasts and veggies... That's ALL he eats... It's
>>> been several years, he is still thin, but that's all he eats... That's not LIFE, that's TORTURE. If he slips, he
>>> gains it back, so
>>> he is CONSTANTLY on his diet.

>> Plenty including me, maintain my weight without that sort
>> of extreme measure, and dont bother with exercise either.

>> Yes, it makes a lot more sense to just eat a little less instead.

>>> The only way to keep the weight off is to constantly diet.

>> Wrong. I didnt even bother to stop drinking beer.

> Here are the choices that I have been "told" when it comes to how to lose weight over the years.

I've just 'told' you that that is just plain wrong.

> 1) Exercise exercise exercise... Working your butt off to burn more calories so you lose weight.

You dont have to exercise as much as that if you arent grossly overweight.

> 2) Portion control. Eat much less, so you take in less calories.

You only need to eat a little less if you arent grossly overweight.

> 3) Diet. Eat food you normally would never touch, just because it has so much less calories.

> If you have a number 4, please let me know,

Just did, eat a little less.

> because it looks like you support number 2.

You need new glasses. I never ever said you need to eat much less.

> Again, it's nothing new. I have heard it all before.

> Yes, if I follow that path, I will lose weight. However, the problem is that I have to constantly focus on it. It
> takes a lot of time and energy to do either one of those three choices. And you can never stop worrying about it...
> Slipping or stoping isn't an option, it must become your new way of life.

You're just looking for excuses to not lose weight.

> Sorry, but in my case, that would be torture rather then life.

Are you grossly overweight ?

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, honeybunch wrote:

>> 1) Exercise exercise exercise... Working your butt off to burn more
>> calories so you lose weight.
>> 2) Portion control. Eat much less, so you take in less calories.
>> 3) Diet. Eat food you normally would never touch, just because it has so
>> much less calories.
>
> 4. Move to another country.
> 5. Re-train your palate, maybe take a course in wine tasting from a
> reputable wine school as a start.
> 6. Hire a personal chef.
> 7. Have something absolutely horrid happen to you so you get so
> nervous and upset that you can't eat.
> 8. Change your religion and fast for religious purposes.

ROTFLMAO! Ok, so the solution to weight loss is to become a drunk
Hindu Ethopean with a personal chef? Sign me up!

Seriously though, the point remains... People ask why I don't lose
weight, and it's the same answer... "I don't want to." Why don't I you
ask? Because it's a pain in the ass, I have to change my life style in
such a way that I'm no longer "living" but rather "surviving", and it's
too much work to keep it up. Then why am I bitching about being fat?
Actually I'm not, it's the skinny trolls that bitch about my being fat.

The Master <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, honeybunch wrote:
>
>>> 1) Exercise exercise exercise... Working your butt off to burn more
>>> calories so you lose weight.
>>> 2) Portion control. Eat much less, so you take in less calories.
>>> 3) Diet. Eat food you normally would never touch, just because it
>>> has so much less calories.
>>
>> 4. Move to another country.
>> 5. Re-train your palate, maybe take a course in wine tasting from a
>> reputable wine school as a start.
>> 6. Hire a personal chef.
>> 7. Have something absolutely horrid happen to you so you get so
>> nervous and upset that you can't eat.
>> 8. Change your religion and fast for religious purposes.

> Seriously though, the point remains...

Nope, you just keep mindlessly claiming the same stupid pig ignorant drivel.

> People ask why I don't lose weight, and it's the same answer... "I don't want to." Why don't I you ask? Because
> it's a pain in the ass, I have to change my life style in such a way that I'm no longer "living" but rather
> "surviving", and it's too much work to keep it up.

Wrong if you arent grossly overweight.

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Hollywood wrote:

> 4) quit before you begin.
>
> It's clear (from this and other Master posts) that you have your
> excuses
> and rationale all mapped out. If you have all the answers, why ask a
> question? That's rhetorical.

But you see, I'm not making "excuses". I am not trying to "excuse" my
size, I accept it. The problem is that skinny trolls like you spend so
much time and energy complaining about my size.

My point is, if you are going to spew how "easy" weight loss is, then make
damn sure you have the answer. Because if you just spew the same lines
that we have already heard, then we just count you in the "moron" category
where you belong.

On Sat, 6 Oct 2007, Rod Speed wrote:

>> 2) Portion control. Eat much less, so you take in less calories.
>
> You only need to eat a little less if you arent grossly overweight.
>
>> If you have a number 4, please let me know,
>
> Just did, eat a little less.

Ummm, that's what "portion control" is... So in other words, you offered
no new information. Thanks for wasting my time.

The Master <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> The Master <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote

>>> 2) Portion control. Eat much less, so you take in less calories.

>> You only need to eat a little less if you arent grossly overweight.

>>> If you have a number 4, please let me know,

>> Just did, eat a little less.

> Ummm, that's what "portion control" is...

Pity about your EAT MUCH LESS. That isnt required
unless you are grossly over eating before you do that, fool.

> So in other words, you offered no new information.

Bare faced lie.

> Thanks for wasting my time.

Your time is of absolutely no value what so ever.

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007, Rod Speed wrote:

>> So in other words, you offered no new information.
>
> Bare faced lie.

ROTFLMAO!!!

Oh god, this is so much fun... Ok, ok... Hold on, I'l laughing so hard
I'm crying... Ok, ok, I'm fine now... *sigh* Thanks for the laugh.

So let me get this right... My "eat MUCH less" comment isn't right,
because all that needs to be done is eat a "little" less. And my
"exercise your butt off" comment isn't right, because all that needs to be
dine is exercise a"little" more...

I just want to make sure I fully understand your position here... That's
it, right? I didn't notice anything else in your post, so I want to make
sure I didn't skim over something that actually was earth shattering.

Assuming I did get your point, my previously mentioned "you aren't spewing
anything new" comment still applies. However, I am willing to accept that
I may have missed something. So PPLLEEAASSEE, tell me your golden
information once more. I promise to pay closer attention this time.

Some gutless fuckwit desperatey cowering behind
The Master <tardis@sdf.lonestar.org>
wrote just the puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.

> ROTFLMAO! Ok, so the solution to weight loss is to become a drunk Hindu
> Ethopean with a personal chef? Sign me up!
>
> Seriously though, the point remains... People ask why I don't lose
> weight, and it's the same answer... "I don't want to." Why don't I you
> ask? Because it's a pain in the ass, I have to change my life style in
> such a way that I'm no longer "living" but rather "surviving", and it's
> too much work to keep it up. Then why am I bitching about being fat?
> Actually I'm not, it's the skinny trolls that bitch about my being fat.

Like they will ever actaully see you, let alone meet you, IRL. If they
ever did, not even knowing who you might be, they'd most likely giggle like
middle school kids, then walk off the other way. No impact there, since you
are living with the fact that this could happen anyway. You are prepared,
and you really don't have to fix your life to suit the possibility of being
visually offensive to someone you could care less about pleasing any way.

I do the whole grains and organic foods thing because I like things that
taste fresh and natural, not processed or treated with things that shouldn't
be in them. That is my choice. If you want to indulge in anything from
pizza to gratin dauphinois to yakisoba, that is your choice.

As to health costs.... why should we have to push ourselves to the limit on
how long the gods have alloted our earthly time to be? Aren't there enough
people on this planet as it is? The obesity thing might be man-made, but
let's leave the population control to nature.

On Oct 5, 10:37 am, The Master <tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam>
wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, honeybunch wrote:
> >> 1) Exercise exercise exercise... Working your butt off to burn more
> >> calories so you lose weight.
> >> 2) Portion control. Eat much less, so you take in less calories.
> >> 3) Diet. Eat food you normally would never touch, just because it has so
> >> much less calories.
>
> > 4. Move to another country.
> > 5. Re-train your palate, maybe take a course in wine tasting from a
> > reputable wine school as a start.
> > 6. Hire a personal chef.
> > 7. Have something absolutely horrid happen to you so you get so
> > nervous and upset that you can't eat.
> > 8. Change your religion and fast for religious purposes.
>
> ROTFLMAO! Ok, so the solution to weight loss is to become a drunk
> Hindu Ethopean with a personal chef? Sign me up!
>
> Seriously though, the point remains... People ask why I don't lose
> weight, and it's the same answer... "I don't want to." Why don't I you
> ask? Because it's a pain in the ass, I have to change my life style in
> such a way that I'm no longer "living" but rather "surviving", and it's
> too much work to keep it up. Then why am I bitching about being fat?
> Actually I'm not, it's the skinny trolls that bitch about my being fat.

enjoy your shortened life, fat fuck. I'm only annoyed at you being a
porcine waste of space because the probability I'll have to help pay
for some fat-induced malady you incur goes up with each doughnut you
stuff down your jiggling, sickly face.

On Oct 7, 6:26 am, The Master <tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam>
wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2007, Hollywood wrote:
> > 4) quit before you begin.
>
> > It's clear (from this and other Master posts) that you have your
> > excuses
> > and rationale all mapped out. If you have all the answers, why ask a
> > question? That's rhetorical.
>
> But you see, I'm not making "excuses". I am not trying to "excuse" my
> size, I accept it. The problem is that skinny trolls like you spend so
> much time and energy complaining about my size.

I don't care what size the Master is. I simply wish the Master would
master
his whines about accepting his/her weight (whatever it is) and the
futility of
attempts at change. By master, I mean keep them to SSFA, not ASD/ASDLC
where folks are trying to master their weights.

> My point is, if you are going to spew how "easy" weight loss is, then make
> damn sure you have the answer. Because if you just spew the same lines
> that we have already heard, then we just count you in the "moron" category
> where you belong.

Here. Simple. For you.
1- Limit your carbs. Keep them reasonably spread out over the course
of the
day. Keep it under 50g total for the day.

2- Get adequate protein. Figure about 1g/kg of weight. If you are 220
lbs, that's
100g of protein. Make sure you spread this out over the day.

3- Drink water.

4- Take a multivitamin. Get adequate magnesium in it. Get a little
sun. The
vitamin D will do you wonders.

5- That's it.

I'm not gonna tell you to exercise. It's not gonna help you. I'm not
gonna tell
you to cut your food intake. That's not gonna work either, not in any
meaningful
way over any meaningful time frame. I'm not gonna tell you to eat a
lot of
veggies. I don't (I wish I could, but I'm not there) and you probably
aren't gonna
do it anyway.

The thing is, and I'm guilty too, Fat Acceptance doesn't mix with
folks who are
not willing to accept their own obesity. I'm unwilling to be obese. I
have an
obese parent and a slim one. I'd rather be like the slim one or the
obese one's
slim relations. I'm on my way (265/208/195 since 8/20/06). In fact,
I'm a lot more
like the slim ones at present. Why bother coming in and yaking with
people who
are trying to change? Why harsh their buzz? As I said, I'm guilty too.
I have been
lured into X-posting into SSFA. I don't start the threads, I don't
troll, but I can see
as where it might come like that. I'm sorry to the SSFA people. Don't
ever change.
Answer to yourself. That's the road. No sarcasm in that.

Master, you come off like you want to change. If you want to, then do
it. If you are
an acceptor, hard core, then accept and don't harsh people who aren't
going to be
acceptors.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007, Rod Speed wrote:

> Some gutless fuckwit desperatey cowering behind
> The Master <tardis@sdf.lonestar.org>
> wrote just the puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.

Your quote was blank Rod... The jury is still out on my being a "gutless
fuckwit", but it seems that there is ample proof that you are a moron, so
there ya go...

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007, Hollywood wrote:

>> But you see, I'm not making "excuses". I am not trying to "excuse" my
>> size, I accept it. The problem is that skinny trolls like you spend so
>> much time and energy complaining about my size.
>
> I don't care what size the Master is. I simply wish the Master would
> master
> his whines about accepting his/her weight (whatever it is) and the
> futility of
> attempts at change.

....but I don't have the desire to change, you have the desire for me to
change. Some skinny halftwit spews the same horsecrap about how easy it
is to lose weight, I'll call them out on it. That's not a whine about
how difficult it is to lose weight, it's bitch slapping the above
mentioned halftwit back into reality. Sorry I didn't make that clear. I
forgot that I was talking to a halftwit.

In article <3AxOi.2717$s8.1167@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, Miaka Yuki says...
>
>

>As to health costs.... why should we have to push ourselves to the limit on
>how long the gods have alloted our earthly time to be? Aren't there enough
>people on this planet as it is? The obesity thing might be man-made, but
>let's leave the population control to nature.
>

Meaning, what, exactly?

Meaning, health costs should be not impacted as morbidly obese people decide not
to treat the resultant diseases?

Banty

--
I like to drink martinis
Two at the very most.
Three, I'm under the table,
Four, I'm under my host.
-- Dorothy Parker

"Banty" <Banty_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:fefsnv02fur@drn.newsguy.com...
> In article <3AxOi.2717$s8.1167@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, Miaka Yuki says...
>>
>>
>
>>As to health costs.... why should we have to push ourselves to the limit
>>on
>>how long the gods have alloted our earthly time to be? Aren't there
>>enough
>>people on this planet as it is? The obesity thing might be man-made, but
>>let's leave the population control to nature.
>>
>
> Meaning, what, exactly?
>
> Meaning, health costs should be not impacted as morbidly obese people
> decide not
> to treat the resultant diseases?
>
How many of these super-size people are actually seeking treatments? For
the way you all talk, they should to embarassed to see any doctors.

Some gutless fuckwit desperatey cowering behind
The Master <tardis@sdf.lonestar.org>
wrote just the puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.

"neoconis_ignoramus" <bellamacina@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1191880218.811947.41710@r29g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
>
> enjoy your shortened life, fat fuck. I'm only annoyed at you being
a
> porcine waste of space because the probability I'll have to help pay
> for some fat-induced malady you incur goes up with each doughnut you
> stuff down your jiggling, sickly face.

And this is the kind of ignorant dipshit I'm supposed to want to
attract??

I've been told I'm somehow "encouraging" fat, but this guy has me
beat.

Robin

On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:46:38 GMT, "Robin King"
<mapletree@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>"neoconis_ignoramus" <bellamacina@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:1191880218.811947.41710@r29g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com...
>>
>> enjoy your shortened life, fat fuck. I'm only annoyed at you being
>a
>> porcine waste of space because the probability I'll have to help pay
>> for some fat-induced malady you incur goes up with each doughnut you
>> stuff down your jiggling, sickly face.
>
> And this is the kind of ignorant dipshit I'm supposed to want to
>attract??
>
> I've been told I'm somehow "encouraging" fat, but this guy has me
>beat.
>
>Robin
>

Robin, whether you will admit it or not, the guy you are actually
encouraging to visit you sooner rather than later is sometimes known
as the "Grim Reaper". He is also sometimes referred to as an angel.
Angel of-------- (I hate to say it)----------- Angel of Death.

Jason

On Oct 9, 8:21 am, The Master <tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam>
wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2007, Hollywood wrote:
> >> But you see, I'm not making "excuses". I am not trying to "excuse" my
> >> size, I accept it. The problem is that skinny trolls like you spend so
> >> much time and energy complaining about my size.
>
> > I don't care what size the Master is. I simply wish the Master would
> > master
> > his whines about accepting his/her weight (whatever it is) and the
> > futility of
> > attempts at change.
>
> ...but I don't have the desire to change, you have the desire for me to
> change. Some skinny halftwit spews the same horsecrap about how easy it
> is to lose weight, I'll call them out on it. That's not a whine about
> how difficult it is to lose weight, it's bitch slapping the above
> mentioned halftwit back into reality. Sorry I didn't make that clear. I
> forgot that I was talking to a halftwit.

Sticks and stones.

Don't change. I do not care. Basically, I'm in favor of anything that
thins
the herd, so do what you will.

I'm not skinny. I've lost 57 lbs. I have another 12 to go to being
skinny,
maybe. I'm not gonna argue about who is intelligent while you are
belligerent.

Everyone maximizes their own utility. You're finding yours.

On last thought: I will assume all halfwit comments are directed at
Rod Speed, and I would have trouble disagreeing with that line of
thought.

Peace to you, Master.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Hollywood wrote:

> I'm not skinny. I've lost 57 lbs. I have another 12 to go to being
> skinny,

LOL!!! 12 more to go, eh? THEN you will be skinny? What are you now?

On Oct 10, 1:08 pm, The Master <tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam>
wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Hollywood wrote:
> > I'm not skinny. I've lost 57 lbs. I have another 12 to go to being
> > skinny,
>
> LOL!!! 12 more to go, eh? THEN you will be skinny? What are you now?

Round about normal-ish.

It's not a question of being skinny (I know, I used the word), it's a
question