Supporting my wife -- but I might need help

Hi!

Excuse me if I skip from here to there: I haven't really collected my
thoughts before writing.

My wonderful wife is beautiful but she does not feel comfortable at
all anymore. She told me that she wants to go on a diet because she
doesn't want to look in the mirror anymore. She says to put her weight
at "somewhere around 230 pounds".

Given that weight and her height her BMI is 36.02 and she is at least
70 pounds over her healthy range.

I use the PC program from www.fitday.com. Through it I learned that
the maximum you should lose per week is 2 pounds. For my wife this
means a restriction of 1000 calories a day, setting her intake at
about 1600 calories.

What I do is track her food intake. She is not the type of person who
has the patience to be bothered with it. I have also thrown away all
snacks.

She loves and *craves* salty snacks, especially chips, so I have
bought individual portions.

I too have started to track my food intake and have started to manage
my eating habbits (well, snack habbits). I am 10 pounds too heavy.

OK....

Now the problems and/or questions.

-- She absolutely hates physical activity. I love to walk (cheap,
relaxed, fun, etc.) but she despises it. In Summer it is too hot, in
Winter too cold. Thighs rub together, etc. Doesn't really help right?
Is there any kind of "cheap" activity: something you can do short,
fast, and burns some calories?

-- I see that she takes about 2500mg to 4000mg of sodium a day. I
understand that aroiund 2000mg is healthy and tops. Does this matter?
Will the icnrease of sodium retain her weight longer? Or is it better
to do one thing at a time; attack weight now (pure calories), sodium
later?

-- So far she feels hungry throughout the day. Even thinks she should
go to bed and sleep so that at least she doesn't feel hungry. Last
year she stopped smoking and she says that between that and this,
stopping smoking is easier for her. *Especially* when it comes to salt
and/or salty snacks. Should I/we get her more calories per day then?

-- I'm a sugar person. She is a salt person. What is it with this salt
thing? Can I help her get something else that will make her feel just
as satisfied?

-- I'm doing this the old-fashioned way. Track food intake, restrict
calories. I see you can restrict carbohydrates, fat, this and that...
Given that writing diet books is an ongoing goldmine this might not be
an answerable question... but what is a good way to go?

Thank you all for your patience and reading time!

If she won't take responsability for her own health, you are wasting your
time..
Will~

"Westbroek" <not@the.net> wrote in message
news:kgppq2h6ns97n0qrokf6u01ai5306fl85a@4ax.com...
> Hi!
>
> Excuse me if I skip from here to there: I haven't really collected my
> thoughts before writing.
>
> My wonderful wife is beautiful but she does not feel comfortable at
> all anymore. She told me that she wants to go on a diet because she
> doesn't want to look in the mirror anymore. She says to put her weight
> at "somewhere around 230 pounds".
>
> Given that weight and her height her BMI is 36.02 and she is at least
> 70 pounds over her healthy range.
>
> I use the PC program from www.fitday.com. Through it I learned that
> the maximum you should lose per week is 2 pounds. For my wife this
> means a restriction of 1000 calories a day, setting her intake at
> about 1600 calories.
>
> What I do is track her food intake. She is not the type of person who
> has the patience to be bothered with it. I have also thrown away all
> snacks.
>
> She loves and *craves* salty snacks, especially chips, so I have
> bought individual portions.
>
> I too have started to track my food intake and have started to manage
> my eating habbits (well, snack habbits). I am 10 pounds too heavy.
>
> OK....
>
> Now the problems and/or questions.
>
> -- She absolutely hates physical activity. I love to walk (cheap,
> relaxed, fun, etc.) but she despises it. In Summer it is too hot, in
> Winter too cold. Thighs rub together, etc. Doesn't really help right?
> Is there any kind of "cheap" activity: something you can do short,
> fast, and burns some calories?
>
> -- I see that she takes about 2500mg to 4000mg of sodium a day. I
> understand that aroiund 2000mg is healthy and tops. Does this matter?
> Will the icnrease of sodium retain her weight longer? Or is it better
> to do one thing at a time; attack weight now (pure calories), sodium
> later?
>
> -- So far she feels hungry throughout the day. Even thinks she should
> go to bed and sleep so that at least she doesn't feel hungry. Last
> year she stopped smoking and she says that between that and this,
> stopping smoking is easier for her. *Especially* when it comes to salt
> and/or salty snacks. Should I/we get her more calories per day then?
>
> -- I'm a sugar person. She is a salt person. What is it with this salt
> thing? Can I help her get something else that will make her feel just
> as satisfied?
>
> -- I'm doing this the old-fashioned way. Track food intake, restrict
> calories. I see you can restrict carbohydrates, fat, this and that...
> Given that writing diet books is an ongoing goldmine this might not be
> an answerable question... but what is a good way to go?
>
> Thank you all for your patience and reading time!

"Willow Herself" <willowkinda@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote in
message news:Qc6rh.34585$Gr2.23557@newssvr21.news.prodigy. net...
> If she won't take responsability for her own health, you are wasting your
> time..
> Will~

To elaborate a bit on that (if you don't mind Willow), weight loss has to be
an individual effort. You can't do it for her if she won't do it for
yourself. My DH hates to track his intake and at one time I tried to do it
for him but it was too much work for me and doing him no good. My
contributions to his efforts are now simply cooking healthy meals - he
decides how much he's going to eat, keeping healthy stuff in the house to
eat, and encouraging him to join me in activities that he likes.

I don't like to walk for walking's sake, but I do like to window shop so we
walk through town. We take hikes in parks and other places and take the dog
out with us. He doesn't like to lift weights but he does go to the gym with
me and helps me with my routine (spotting, etc) and does things he likes,
including the stationary bikes.
--
the volleyballchick

> "Westbroek" <not@the.net> wrote in message
> news:kgppq2h6ns97n0qrokf6u01ai5306fl85a@4ax.com...
>> Hi!
>>
>> Excuse me if I skip from here to there: I haven't really collected my
>> thoughts before writing.
>>
>> My wonderful wife is beautiful but she does not feel comfortable at
>> all anymore. She told me that she wants to go on a diet because she
>> doesn't want to look in the mirror anymore. She says to put her weight
>> at "somewhere around 230 pounds".
>>
>> Given that weight and her height her BMI is 36.02 and she is at least
>> 70 pounds over her healthy range.
>>
>> I use the PC program from www.fitday.com. Through it I learned that
>> the maximum you should lose per week is 2 pounds. For my wife this
>> means a restriction of 1000 calories a day, setting her intake at
>> about 1600 calories.
>>
>> What I do is track her food intake. She is not the type of person who
>> has the patience to be bothered with it. I have also thrown away all
>> snacks.
>>
>> She loves and *craves* salty snacks, especially chips, so I have
>> bought individual portions.
>>
>> I too have started to track my food intake and have started to manage
>> my eating habbits (well, snack habbits). I am 10 pounds too heavy.
>>
>> OK....
>>
>> Now the problems and/or questions.
>>
>> -- She absolutely hates physical activity. I love to walk (cheap,
>> relaxed, fun, etc.) but she despises it. In Summer it is too hot, in
>> Winter too cold. Thighs rub together, etc. Doesn't really help right?
>> Is there any kind of "cheap" activity: something you can do short,
>> fast, and burns some calories?
>>
>> -- I see that she takes about 2500mg to 4000mg of sodium a day. I
>> understand that aroiund 2000mg is healthy and tops. Does this matter?
>> Will the icnrease of sodium retain her weight longer? Or is it better
>> to do one thing at a time; attack weight now (pure calories), sodium
>> later?
>>
>> -- So far she feels hungry throughout the day. Even thinks she should
>> go to bed and sleep so that at least she doesn't feel hungry. Last
>> year she stopped smoking and she says that between that and this,
>> stopping smoking is easier for her. *Especially* when it comes to salt
>> and/or salty snacks. Should I/we get her more calories per day then?
>>
>> -- I'm a sugar person. She is a salt person. What is it with this salt
>> thing? Can I help her get something else that will make her feel just
>> as satisfied?
>>
>> -- I'm doing this the old-fashioned way. Track food intake, restrict
>> calories. I see you can restrict carbohydrates, fat, this and that...
>> Given that writing diet books is an ongoing goldmine this might not be
>> an answerable question... but what is a good way to go?
>>
>> Thank you all for your patience and reading time!
>
>

a good way to go is to learn to eat when you get hungry...real
hunger...and to not eat for other reasons
Westbroek wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Excuse me if I skip from here to there: I haven't really collected my
> thoughts before writing.
>
> My wonderful wife is beautiful but she does not feel comfortable at
> all anymore. She told me that she wants to go on a diet because she
> doesn't want to look in the mirror anymore. She says to put her weight
> at "somewhere around 230 pounds".
>
> Given that weight and her height her BMI is 36.02 and she is at least
> 70 pounds over her healthy range.
>
> I use the PC program from www.fitday.com. Through it I learned that
> the maximum you should lose per week is 2 pounds. For my wife this
> means a restriction of 1000 calories a day, setting her intake at
> about 1600 calories.
>
> What I do is track her food intake. She is not the type of person who
> has the patience to be bothered with it. I have also thrown away all
> snacks.
>
> She loves and *craves* salty snacks, especially chips, so I have
> bought individual portions.
>
> I too have started to track my food intake and have started to manage
> my eating habbits (well, snack habbits). I am 10 pounds too heavy.
>
> OK....
>
> Now the problems and/or questions.
>
> -- She absolutely hates physical activity. I love to walk (cheap,
> relaxed, fun, etc.) but she despises it. In Summer it is too hot, in
> Winter too cold. Thighs rub together, etc. Doesn't really help right?
> Is there any kind of "cheap" activity: something you can do short,
> fast, and burns some calories?
>
> -- I see that she takes about 2500mg to 4000mg of sodium a day. I
> understand that aroiund 2000mg is healthy and tops. Does this matter?
> Will the icnrease of sodium retain her weight longer? Or is it better
> to do one thing at a time; attack weight now (pure calories), sodium
> later?
>
> -- So far she feels hungry throughout the day. Even thinks she should
> go to bed and sleep so that at least she doesn't feel hungry. Last
> year she stopped smoking and she says that between that and this,
> stopping smoking is easier for her. *Especially* when it comes to salt
> and/or salty snacks. Should I/we get her more calories per day then?
>
> -- I'm a sugar person. She is a salt person. What is it with this salt
> thing? Can I help her get something else that will make her feel just
> as satisfied?
>
> -- I'm doing this the old-fashioned way. Track food intake, restrict
> calories. I see you can restrict carbohydrates, fat, this and that...
> Given that writing diet books is an ongoing goldmine this might not be
> an answerable question... but what is a good way to go?
>
> Thank you all for your patience and reading time!

Westbroek wrote:
>
> What I do is track her food intake. She is not the type of person who
> has the patience to be bothered with it.

If she isn't willing to do it herself, I repeat what others have stated
-
There's no way it can be sustained. You can and should support
her - family sabotage is far too common - but there's no way you
can do it for her.

> She loves and *craves* salty snacks, especially chips, so I have
> bought individual portions.

Maybe the ingredients other than the salt are causing addictive
reaction. I'm wheat intolerant and I act that way to salty snacks
but for me it isn't the salt. Try snacks made from only this for
a couple of weeks, only that for a couple of weeks, and see if
the cravings drop off.

> -- She absolutely hates physical activity. I love to walk (cheap,
> relaxed, fun, etc.) but she despises it. In Summer it is too hot, in
> Winter too cold. Thighs rub together, etc. Doesn't really help right?

Loss can happen without exercise. Keeping it off can't. And
there is no way to keep it off without exercise. Understand
that hating exercise is like hating vegitables - Something that
growing up is supposed to be growing out of. The political
realities of pushing a spouse for this sort of growing up experience,
not something I'll touch with a ten foot pole.

> Is there any kind of "cheap" activity: something you can do short,
> fast, and burns some calories?

I take it you're not celibate? Add positions that leave you both
exhausted. Wanna bet she doesn't mind exercise when you
pick the type cafefully enough? How to leverage this into the
growing up stuff I mentioned above, no clue.

> -- I see that she takes about 2500mg to 4000mg of sodium a day. I
> understand that aroiund 2000mg is healthy and tops. Does this matter?
> Will the icnrease of sodium retain her weight longer? Or is it better
> to do one thing at a time; attack weight now (pure calories), sodium
> later?

Is the goal to lose fat? Then understand that salt and the water
is dissolves in are not fat. Blood pressure and such matter, but
lose the fat and all of those other issues tend to go away.

The human body is evolved to eject prodigious amounts of salt.
Our kidneys are specially built for it. Eating extra salt is not
unhealthy once no longer fat. So I hold the minority opinion that
limiting salt isn't worth the effort.

> -- So far she feels hungry throughout the day. Even thinks she should
> go to bed and sleep so that at least she doesn't feel hungry. Last
> year she stopped smoking and she says that between that and this,
> stopping smoking is easier for her. *Especially* when it comes to salt
> and/or salty snacks. Should I/we get her more calories per day then?

More calories, maybe. Or select a type of plan that does not trigger
hunger.

> -- I'm a sugar person. She is a salt person. What is it with this salt
> thing? Can I help her get something else that will make her feel just
> as satisfied?

Diffferent people, different tastes. How would you feel if she worked
on your sugar intake? Sugar does effect fat storage far more directly
than salt does.

> -- I'm doing this the old-fashioned way. Track food intake, restrict
> calories. I see you can restrict carbohydrates, fat, this and that...
> Given that writing diet books is an ongoing goldmine this might not be
> an answerable question... but what is a good way to go?

The way that works is the good way. I am a low carber. it's one of
many good approaches. The folks to be wary of are the ones that
say only one way works.

"Nunya B." <nunyadayumbidnez@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:514clnF1ico0aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Willow Herself" <willowkinda@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote in
> message news:Qc6rh.34585$Gr2.23557@newssvr21.news.prodigy. net...
>> If she won't take responsability for her own health, you are wasting your
>> time..
>> Will~
>
> To elaborate a bit on that (if you don't mind Willow), weight loss has to
> be an individual effort. You can't do it for her if she won't do it for
> yourself. My DH hates to track his intake and at one time I tried to do it
> for him but it was too much work for me and doing him no good. My
> contributions to his efforts are now simply cooking healthy meals - he
> decides how much he's going to eat, keeping healthy stuff in the house to
> eat, and encouraging him to join me in activities that he likes.
>
> I don't like to walk for walking's sake, but I do like to window shop so
> we walk through town. We take hikes in parks and other places and take
> the dog out with us. He doesn't like to lift weights but he does go to
> the gym with me and helps me with my routine (spotting, etc) and does
> things he likes, including the stationary bikes.
> --
> the volleyballchick
>
I don't mind at all.. well said!
Will~

On 16 Jan 2007 11:01:54 -0800, "Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Westbroek wrote:
>>
>> What I do is track her food intake. She is not the type of person who
>> has the patience to be bothered with it.
>
>If she isn't willing to do it herself, I repeat what others have stated
>-
>There's no way it can be sustained. You can and should support
>her - family sabotage is far too common - but there's no way you
>can do it for her.

I couldn't agree more. It has to come from within or it won't work.

janice

In response to Doug Freyburger's:

> If she isn't willing to do it herself, I repeat what others have stated
> -
> There's no way it can be sustained. You can and should support
> her - family sabotage is far too common - but there's no way you
> can do it for her.

Thanks for the helpful reply, Doug! Good info and suggestions!

I don't know how I've created the impression that I am doing this for
her, instead of her, etc. *She* wants to lose weight, *she* wants to
be on a diet *now* -- and *she* finds it difficult.

Quit smoking sucks. No more chocolate (one of my daughters) is hard.
No more bunch-feeding sucks too.

So... she finds it hard. And I'm just trying to find out more so I can
help her more so it can be less hard for her :-)

"Westbroek" <not@the.net> wrote in message
news:kgppq2h6ns97n0qrokf6u01ai5306fl85a@4ax.com...
> Hi!
>
> Excuse me if I skip from here to there: I haven't really collected my
> thoughts before writing.
>
> My wonderful wife is beautiful but she does not feel comfortable at
> all anymore. She told me that she wants to go on a diet because she
> doesn't want to look in the mirror anymore. She says to put her weight
> at "somewhere around 230 pounds".
>
> Given that weight and her height her BMI is 36.02 and she is at least
> 70 pounds over her healthy range.
>
> I use the PC program from www.fitday.com. Through it I learned that
> the maximum you should lose per week is 2 pounds. For my wife this
> means a restriction of 1000 calories a day, setting her intake at
> about 1600 calories.
>
> What I do is track her food intake. She is not the type of person who
> has the patience to be bothered with it. I have also thrown away all
> snacks.
>
> She loves and *craves* salty snacks, especially chips, so I have
> bought individual portions.
>
> I too have started to track my food intake and have started to manage
> my eating habbits (well, snack habbits). I am 10 pounds too heavy.
>
> OK....
>
> Now the problems and/or questions.
>
> -- She absolutely hates physical activity. I love to walk (cheap,
> relaxed, fun, etc.) but she despises it. In Summer it is too hot, in
> Winter too cold. Thighs rub together, etc. Doesn't really help right?
> Is there any kind of "cheap" activity: something you can do short,
> fast, and burns some calories?
>
> -- I see that she takes about 2500mg to 4000mg of sodium a day. I
> understand that aroiund 2000mg is healthy and tops. Does this matter?
> Will the icnrease of sodium retain her weight longer? Or is it better
> to do one thing at a time; attack weight now (pure calories), sodium
> later?
>
> -- So far she feels hungry throughout the day. Even thinks she should
> go to bed and sleep so that at least she doesn't feel hungry. Last
> year she stopped smoking and she says that between that and this,
> stopping smoking is easier for her. *Especially* when it comes to salt
> and/or salty snacks. Should I/we get her more calories per day then?
>
> -- I'm a sugar person. She is a salt person. What is it with this salt
> thing? Can I help her get something else that will make her feel just
> as satisfied?
>
> -- I'm doing this the old-fashioned way. Track food intake, restrict
> calories. I see you can restrict carbohydrates, fat, this and that...
> Given that writing diet books is an ongoing goldmine this might not be
> an answerable question... but what is a good way to go?
>
> Thank you all for your patience and reading time!

When faced with the daunting task of losing "X" amount of weight, it can be
very discouraging. There are so many things "wrong" it's so hard to know
where to start. Here is what I would recommend - make small changes and set
small goals.

Like, a 500 calorie deficit per day. 10 minutes of walking, per day. Every
exercise I know of would have thighs rubbing together, except for riding a
bike, which can be too difficult for someone just starting out. The other
option is spandex, because at least it keeps you from chafing.

Salt will only make her retain water, not fat. So she may be holding extra
water, but it won't impede her losing fat. As she learns to eat healthier,
the salt should come down as a result of better eating.

What does her current diet look like?

Westbroek wrote:
> In response to Doug Freyburger's:
>
> > If she isn't willing to do it herself, I repeat what others have stated
> > -
> > There's no way it can be sustained. You can and should support
> > her - family sabotage is far too common - but there's no way you
> > can do it for her.
>
> Thanks for the helpful reply, Doug! Good info and suggestions!
>
> I don't know how I've created the impression that I am doing this for
> her, instead of her, etc. *She* wants to lose weight, *she* wants to
> be on a diet *now* -- and *she* finds it difficult.
>
> Quit smoking sucks. No more chocolate (one of my daughters) is hard.
> No more bunch-feeding sucks too.
>
> So... she finds it hard. And I'm just trying to find out more so I can
> help her more so it can be less hard for her :-)


It is hard, losing weight, being healthy is not easy. Nothing is easy
that's worthwhile. Everything is hard work. I don't understand how the
idea that life is *supposed* to be easy ever got started. It's
ridiculous and needs to be wiped out of people's minds.

All I can say is, if your wife wants it bad enough, she'll do the hard
work. I commend you for being there for her, that's so much more than
many of us have. Good luck.

Westbroek <not@the.net> wrote:

> I don't know how I've created the impression that I am doing this for
> her, instead of her, etc. *She* wants to lose weight, *she* wants to
> be on a diet *now* -- and *she* finds it difficult.

Is there some reason *she* can't ask her own questions here?

"Westbroek" <not@the.net> wrote in message
news:kgppq2h6ns97n0qrokf6u01ai5306fl85a@4ax.com...
> Hi!
>
> Excuse me if I skip from here to there: I haven't really collected my
> thoughts before writing.
>
> My wonderful wife is beautiful but she does not feel comfortable at
> all anymore. She told me that she wants to go on a diet because she
> doesn't want to look in the mirror anymore. She says to put her weight
> at "somewhere around 230 pounds".
>
> Given that weight and her height her BMI is 36.02 and she is at least
> 70 pounds over her healthy range.
>
> I use the PC program from www.fitday.com. Through it I learned that
> the maximum you should lose per week is 2 pounds. For my wife this
> means a restriction of 1000 calories a day, setting her intake at
> about 1600 calories.
>
> What I do is track her food intake. She is not the type of person who
> has the patience to be bothered with it. I have also thrown away all
> snacks.
>
> She loves and *craves* salty snacks, especially chips, so I have
> bought individual portions.
>
> I too have started to track my food intake and have started to manage
> my eating habbits (well, snack habbits). I am 10 pounds too heavy.
>
> OK....
>
> Now the problems and/or questions.
>
> -- She absolutely hates physical activity. I love to walk (cheap,
> relaxed, fun, etc.) but she despises it. In Summer it is too hot, in
> Winter too cold. Thighs rub together, etc. Doesn't really help right?
> Is there any kind of "cheap" activity: something you can do short,
> fast, and burns some calories?
>
> -- I see that she takes about 2500mg to 4000mg of sodium a day. I
> understand that aroiund 2000mg is healthy and tops. Does this matter?
> Will the icnrease of sodium retain her weight longer? Or is it better
> to do one thing at a time; attack weight now (pure calories), sodium
> later?
>
> -- So far she feels hungry throughout the day. Even thinks she should
> go to bed and sleep so that at least she doesn't feel hungry. Last
> year she stopped smoking and she says that between that and this,
> stopping smoking is easier for her. *Especially* when it comes to salt
> and/or salty snacks. Should I/we get her more calories per day then?
>
> -- I'm a sugar person. She is a salt person. What is it with this salt
> thing? Can I help her get something else that will make her feel just
> as satisfied?
>
> -- I'm doing this the old-fashioned way. Track food intake, restrict
> calories. I see you can restrict carbohydrates, fat, this and that...
> Given that writing diet books is an ongoing goldmine this might not be
> an answerable question... but what is a good way to go?
>
> Thank you all for your patience and reading time!

I'd agree with aiming for 1lb per week loss for now. Maybe when she is used
to it a bit more she will feel able to cut back a bit more. Sometimes
drinking more can help reduce the hunger pangs.


--
Rachael

176/116/<119

www.justgiving.com/rachaelslondonmarathon

Been there, done that. Started at 240 pounds on 5 foot 2 inches, hating
exercise, and loving salty crunchy snacks. Got down to 187 last year. It
took fifteen years.

Salty crunchy snack now: cheerios, slivered almonds, and soy nuts or
peanuts in about a 2:1:1 ratio. Add raisins or other dried fruit for a
little sweet.

Exercise: the facts of exercise are that during the first 20 minutes, most
of the calories you burn comes from carbs. After that, most of them (but
never all) come from fat. Work up to at least 1 30 minute workout a day. I
got the wakeup call when my LDL was 198 and in 2 1/2 months with double the
exercise and MINOR eating changes, I got it down to 119. 18 months later it
was 98. I saved $1500 a year on drugs. I also have asthma which is
irritated by cold weather, and I'm prone to heat exhaustion. So in summer I
workout where there's air conditioning. This year I bought a well-insulated
parka and I have been walking almost every day at work, even in 20 degree
wind chills, with almost no asthma breakouts. Email me for more numbers on
money you save by exercising.

More on nutrients
Institute of Medicine (2001) "Dietary Reference Intakes: Macronutrients"
http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/7/300/0.pdf Downloaded September 21,
2004
Institute of Medicine (2001) "Dietary Reference Intakes: Vitamins"
http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/7/296/0.pdf Downloaded September 21,
2004

Institute of Medicine. (2001) "Dietary Reference Intakes: Elements"
http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/7/294/0.pdf Downloaded September 21,
2004



"Westbroek" <not@the.net> wrote in message
news:kgppq2h6ns97n0qrokf6u01ai5306fl85a@4ax.com...
> Hi!
>
> Excuse me if I skip from here to there: I haven't really collected my
> thoughts before writing.
>
> My wonderful wife is beautiful but she does not feel comfortable at
> all anymore. She told me that she wants to go on a diet because she
> doesn't want to look in the mirror anymore. She says to put her weight
> at "somewhere around 230 pounds".
>
> Given that weight and her height her BMI is 36.02 and she is at least
> 70 pounds over her healthy range.
>
> I use the PC program from www.fitday.com. Through it I learned that
> the maximum you should lose per week is 2 pounds. For my wife this
> means a restriction of 1000 calories a day, setting her intake at
> about 1600 calories.
>
> What I do is track her food intake. She is not the type of person who
> has the patience to be bothered with it. I have also thrown away all
> snacks.
>
> She loves and *craves* salty snacks, especially chips, so I have
> bought individual portions.
>
> I too have started to track my food intake and have started to manage
> my eating habbits (well, snack habbits). I am 10 pounds too heavy.
>
> OK....
>
> Now the problems and/or questions.
>
> -- She absolutely hates physical activity. I love to walk (cheap,
> relaxed, fun, etc.) but she despises it. In Summer it is too hot, in
> Winter too cold. Thighs rub together, etc. Doesn't really help right?
> Is there any kind of "cheap" activity: something you can do short,
> fast, and burns some calories?
>
> -- I see that she takes about 2500mg to 4000mg of sodium a day. I
> understand that aroiund 2000mg is healthy and tops. Does this matter?
> Will the icnrease of sodium retain her weight longer? Or is it better
> to do one thing at a time; attack weight now (pure calories), sodium
> later?
>
> -- So far she feels hungry throughout the day. Even thinks she should
> go to bed and sleep so that at least she doesn't feel hungry. Last
> year she stopped smoking and she says that between that and this,
> stopping smoking is easier for her. *Especially* when it comes to salt
> and/or salty snacks. Should I/we get her more calories per day then?
>
> -- I'm a sugar person. She is a salt person. What is it with this salt
> thing? Can I help her get something else that will make her feel just
> as satisfied?
>
> -- I'm doing this the old-fashioned way. Track food intake, restrict
> calories. I see you can restrict carbohydrates, fat, this and that...
> Given that writing diet books is an ongoing goldmine this might not be
> an answerable question... but what is a good way to go?
>
> Thank you all for your patience and reading time!

In response to determined's:

> What does her current diet look like?

The basic food we always take but less of it. I also try to make meals
which are more filling. Tonight for example I made chicken breasts
with loads of veggies: we each had more than 2 cups of veggies. We
couldn't even eat the dessert (a 40 cal. yogurt)!

I do nothing special but monitor the number of total calories per day.

Knowing her, what she needs is an early win. Getting on the scales and
- bingo! - she has lost X pounds.


@Patricia Heil: thanks for all the good info. If I understand you
well, the first 20 minutes you excercise you burn what is "in your
system". The food you just ate or whatever. It is only *after* those
20 minutes that you start to burn the calories stored in fat?


@SFrunner: thanks for the encouragement! What I love from my wife is
that she keeps setting the good example in our family. I followed her
in her quit smoking -- and now I too am eating conciously and trying
to get rid of my 10lbs extra.


@The Queen of Cans and Jars: I think I might have utterly failed in
communicating the fact that I seek help in my attempt to help my wife.
PS: interesting choice of X-lyrics.

"Westbroek" <not@the.net> wrote in message
news:u6sqq2p0t2k2sajgvu7hnvtqk241afgkqu@4ax.com...
> In response to determined's:
>
>> What does her current diet look like?
>
> The basic food we always take but less of it. I also try to make meals
> which are more filling. Tonight for example I made chicken breasts
> with loads of veggies: we each had more than 2 cups of veggies. We
> couldn't even eat the dessert (a 40 cal. yogurt)!
>
> I do nothing special but monitor the number of total calories per day.
>
> Knowing her, what she needs is an early win. Getting on the scales and
> - bingo! - she has lost X pounds.
>
>
> @Patricia Heil: thanks for all the good info. If I understand you
> well, the first 20 minutes you excercise you burn what is "in your
> system". The food you just ate or whatever. It is only *after* those
> 20 minutes that you start to burn the calories stored in fat?
>
>
I believe that is a non issue. If you burn the glycogen in your body,
the body will replace it. If not enough food to replace it it will use
something else, like fat or muscle. interesting web site at
http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html
if you are into the geeky aspects of tracking and monitoring. Also has
some excellent info even if you aren't
> @SFrunner: thanks for the encouragement! What I love from my wife is
> that she keeps setting the good example in our family. I followed her
> in her quit smoking -- and now I too am eating conciously and trying
> to get rid of my 10lbs extra.
>
>
> @The Queen of Cans and Jars: I think I might have utterly failed in
> communicating the fact that I seek help in my attempt to help my wife.
> PS: interesting choice of X-lyrics.

Westbroek wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Excuse me if I skip from here to there: I haven't really collected my
> thoughts before writing.
>
> My wonderful wife is beautiful but she does not feel comfortable at
> all anymore. She told me that she wants to go on a diet because she
> doesn't want to look in the mirror anymore. She says to put her weight
> at "somewhere around 230 pounds".
>
> Given that weight and her height her BMI is 36.02 and she is at least
> 70 pounds over her healthy range.
>
> I use the PC program from www.fitday.com. Through it I learned that
> the maximum you should lose per week is 2 pounds. For my wife this
> means a restriction of 1000 calories a day, setting her intake at
> about 1600 calories.
>
> What I do is track her food intake. She is not the type of person who
> has the patience to be bothered with it. I have also thrown away all
> snacks.
>
> She loves and *craves* salty snacks, especially chips, so I have
> bought individual portions.
>
> I too have started to track my food intake and have started to manage
> my eating habbits (well, snack habbits). I am 10 pounds too heavy.
>
> OK....
>
> Now the problems and/or questions.
>
> -- She absolutely hates physical activity. I love to walk (cheap,
> relaxed, fun, etc.) but she despises it. In Summer it is too hot, in
> Winter too cold. Thighs rub together, etc. Doesn't really help right?
> Is there any kind of "cheap" activity: something you can do short,
> fast, and burns some calories?
>
> -- I see that she takes about 2500mg to 4000mg of sodium a day. I
> understand that aroiund 2000mg is healthy and tops. Does this matter?
> Will the icnrease of sodium retain her weight longer? Or is it better
> to do one thing at a time; attack weight now (pure calories), sodium
> later?
>
> -- So far she feels hungry throughout the day. Even thinks she should
> go to bed and sleep so that at least she doesn't feel hungry. Last
> year she stopped smoking and she says that between that and this,
> stopping smoking is easier for her. *Especially* when it comes to salt
> and/or salty snacks. Should I/we get her more calories per day then?
>
> -- I'm a sugar person. She is a salt person. What is it with this salt
> thing? Can I help her get something else that will make her feel just
> as satisfied?
>
> -- I'm doing this the old-fashioned way. Track food intake, restrict
> calories. I see you can restrict carbohydrates, fat, this and that...
> Given that writing diet books is an ongoing goldmine this might not be
> an answerable question... but what is a good way to go?
>
> Thank you all for your patience and reading time!

Walking, even if it is a little uncomfortable is essential. As she
loses fat around her legs it will be more comfortable. She just needs
to do it. Walk slowly at first, then increase the rate a little as she
loses weight. There is no finer exercise for very overweight
people...unless they really can't walk of course, then I would say
swimming. If you walk with her, it would give you some quality time
together, too. dkw

Westbroek wrote:

>
> @SFrunner: thanks for the encouragement! What I love from my wife is
> that she keeps setting the good example in our family. I followed her
> in her quit smoking -- and now I too am eating conciously and trying
> to get rid of my 10lbs extra.
>

That's really cool....you love each other very much.

I've been clean & sober for 1 year, 7 months. At one of the first AA
meetings I went to, the speaker said when he got sober, his Sponsor
asked him how hard he was willing work for his sobriety. The speaker
said he would do anything. He sponsor then asked him if he would be
willing to push a peanut accross the gym floor and back with his nose
for his sobriety. As long as he said he would, he would remain sober.

That's how hard we have to work for worthwhile things sometimes. It's
not always that difficult, but at times, it's even harder.

As long as we remember this and keep vigilant, we will achieve our
goals. I truly believe this and live this every day.

Westbroek wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Excuse me if I skip from here to there: I haven't really collected my
> thoughts before writing.
>
> My wonderful wife is beautiful but she does not feel comfortable at
> all anymore. She told me that she wants to go on a diet because she
> doesn't want to look in the mirror anymore. She says to put her weight
> at "somewhere around 230 pounds".

Like everyone else, I absolutely detest the concept of a husband
supervising his wife's weight loss. This is not YOUR project. It is
HER project. She's setting you up for failure by making you part of it.
If she wants to lose weight she needs to eat less and exercise more.
Period.

She can work on different parts of the puzzle: why she chooses the
insane behavior of eating more than is good for her, what form of
exercise she enjoys, how best to manage her hunger and energy levels at
lower calorie intakes: all these things take trial and error. But she's
the only one who can do it. You can only fail at this.

> Given that weight and her height her BMI is 36.02 and she is at least
> 70 pounds over her healthy range.

I was 245, I lost 75 pounds. My husband joined me in my first real
foray into this and lost 20 pounds. Now he's a competitive master's
athlete and I do triathlons and our three children are all in great
shape. His support was nice, but I had to choose to do it, and choose
to do it over and over again, six to eight times a day, solving each
problem as they came up because I didn't want to be fat anymore.

> I use the PC program from www.fitday.com. Through it I learned that
> the maximum you should lose per week is 2 pounds. For my wife this
> means a restriction of 1000 calories a day, setting her intake at
> about 1600 calories.

A rough rule of thumb is to not drop below 8x her weight in calories.
That means 1600 calories will leave her too low in energy and too
unsated to succeed.

> What I do is track her food intake. She is not the type of person who
> has the patience to be bothered with it. I have also thrown away all
> snacks.

Do you plan on tracking her food six times a day for the rest of her
life? Cut it out. Seriously, cut it out now. She solves this or she
doesn't solve it. You should NOT be in the middle between her and her fork.

> She loves and *craves* salty snacks, especially chips, so I have
> bought individual portions.

Craves, eh? Oh well, I guess she'll just have to stay fat.

> I too have started to track my food intake and have started to manage
> my eating habbits (well, snack habbits). I am 10 pounds too heavy.
>
> OK....
>
> Now the problems and/or questions.
>
> -- She absolutely hates physical activity. I love to walk (cheap,
> relaxed, fun, etc.) but she despises it. In Summer it is too hot, in
> Winter too cold. Thighs rub together, etc. Doesn't really help right?
> Is there any kind of "cheap" activity: something you can do short,
> fast, and burns some calories?

Of course there is. Tons of it. Seriously, go do your thing and let
her wallow on the couch. Go have fun. Go for a hike, take a bike ride,
go take swimming lessons, join a volleyball team at the Y, start lifting
weights in your basement. Do whatever makes sense to you to do for YOUR
body. Model good behavior for your children. You cannot help your wife.

Exercise is basic maintenance for owners of human bodies. She has
chosen to let her body fail. You can do NOTHING about this. Save
yourself and model good behavior for your kids. That's the best you can
hope for.

> -- I see that she takes about 2500mg to 4000mg of sodium a day. I
> understand that around 2000mg is healthy and tops. Does this matter?
> Will the icnrease of sodium retain her weight longer? Or is it better
> to do one thing at a time; attack weight now (pure calories), sodium
> later?

What does she think?

> -- So far she feels hungry throughout the day. Even thinks she should
> go to bed and sleep so that at least she doesn't feel hungry. Last
> year she stopped smoking and she says that between that and this,
> stopping smoking is easier for her. *Especially* when it comes to salt
> and/or salty snacks. Should I/we get her more calories per day then?

If she wants to stop being fat she is going to have to learn to eat so
that she is sated on less calories. If she wants to figure this out she
can come here and ask us herself how we do this.

> -- I'm a sugar person. She is a salt person. What is it with this salt
> thing? Can I help her get something else that will make her feel just
> as satisfied?

Sex is good.

> -- I'm doing this the old-fashioned way. Track food intake, restrict
> calories. I see you can restrict carbohydrates, fat, this and that...
> Given that writing diet books is an ongoing goldmine this might not be
> an answerable question... but what is a good way to go?

I'll tell her when she asks me herself.

> Thank you all for your patience and reading time!

Did you detect any patience? I didn't.

I actually don't mean you ill. We've all been there, wanting to help a
fat friend or family member. It just can't be done. All you can do is
model reasonable portion sizes and daily exercise in your life. Are you
lifting weights three times a week? If not, start. Are you breaking a
sweat for half an hour of cardio three times a week? If not, start.
Are you eating dinner on luncheon sized plates? I don't care if
everyone is shovelling food off a platter, YOU use a small plate.
That's the best you can do for her: behave like a slender person.
Perhaps she'll join you, perhaps she won't.

Dally
244/170/155

"SFrunner" <bastmag666@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1168998354.938048.69730@q2g2000cwa.googlegrou ps.com...
> Westbroek wrote:
>
>>
>> @SFrunner: thanks for the encouragement! What I love from my wife is
>> that she keeps setting the good example in our family. I followed her
>> in her quit smoking -- and now I too am eating conciously and trying
>> to get rid of my 10lbs extra.
>>
>
> That's really cool....you love each other very much.
>
> I've been clean & sober for 1 year, 7 months. At one of the first AA
> meetings I went to, the speaker said when he got sober, his Sponsor
> asked him how hard he was willing work for his sobriety. The speaker
> said he would do anything. He sponsor then asked him if he would be
> willing to push a peanut accross the gym floor and back with his nose
> for his sobriety. As long as he said he would, he would remain sober.

Ha! If that was all it took to lose weight, I'd be skinny already!

In response to Dally's:

> Did you detect any patience? I didn't.

I do. There are some very helpful answers and pointers in this thread.
Some great step-ins for someone who doesn't know a lot about dieting
except what I've heard around the grapevine.

Sure, there also is the misconception that I want to do it for her --
or that she *has* to do this or that before any help is extended ...
but I've been around Usenet long enough to smile a lot :-)

If my wife wants to learn a foreign language, I will encourage her and
help her. If my wife wants to master Adobe PhotoShop CS2, I help her
get books and tutorials and I back her up.

Or did you think helping her, being by her side, doing it as much
together as possible was about dieting only?

For as long as she wants to diet, I am determined to help her do it;
to help, to know, to understand, to support, to encourage.

But I fully respect those who see these things differently and prefer
to do them differently. Takes every kind of people ;-)

determined wrote:
> "SFrunner" <bastmag666@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> Ha! If that was all it took to lose weight, I'd be skinny already!

Ever try to push a peanut (not in the shell) across a gym floor and
back?

lol

"SFrunner" <bastmag666@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169007866.000759.267060@38g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>
> determined wrote:
>> "SFrunner" <bastmag666@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Ha! If that was all it took to lose weight, I'd be skinny already!
>
> Ever try to push a peanut (not in the shell) across a gym floor and
> back?
>
> lol

uh, no, but it sounds like something fun to do after a drink......of root
beer of course.

determined wrote:
> "SFrunner" <bastmag666@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1169007866.000759.267060@38g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> >
> > determined wrote:
> >> "SFrunner" <bastmag666@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >> Ha! If that was all it took to lose weight, I'd be skinny already!
> >
> > Ever try to push a peanut (not in the shell) across a gym floor and
> > back?
> >
> > lol
>
> uh, no, but it sounds like something fun to do after a drink......of root
> beer of course.

HAHA!!!!!

"Del Cecchi" <delcecchiofthenorth@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:515bp9F1im87hU1@mid.individual.net...

> I believe that is a non issue. If you burn the glycogen in your body, the
> body will replace it. If not enough food to replace it it will use
> something else, like fat or muscle. interesting web site at
> http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html
> if you are into the geeky aspects of tracking and monitoring. Also has
> some excellent info even if you aren't


I stumbled upon Walker's "Hacker's Diet" when I first started my program and
have modeled much of what I am doing on his theories. If nothing else, his
"Hacker's Diet" is humorous, fun to read and appeals to
technical/engineering nerds like me.

The only thing I emphasize more than he does is exercise.

Did you know he was the founder and president of AutoDesk ... producer of
the computer aided design program, "AutoCad"?

RCE

Westbroek wrote:
> In response to determined's:
>
> > What does her current diet look like?
>
> The basic food we always take but less of it. I also try to make meals
> which are more filling. Tonight for example I made chicken breasts
> with loads of veggies: we each had more than 2 cups of veggies. We
> couldn't even eat the dessert (a 40 cal. yogurt)!

Veggies are good on any type of plan. No one ever got fat
from eating too much cauliflower. Though some day I figure
I'll encounter someone with some sort of reaction to cauliflower
that it triggered binges and my "no one" will come to mean
99.99% of people, at the moment my observations still have
it at actuall 100% ...

> Knowing her, what she needs is an early win. Getting on the scales and
> - bingo! - she has lost X pounds.

Question - How many times will she quit if she doesn't see quick
progress, gain it all back, then try again some other month or
year? The biggest open secret out there is that the people who are
the most successfull are the ones that stayed on their plans without
sabotaging themselves with stuff like unlrealistic expectations.

Is it hard to face the fact that loss happens at the rate it really
happens and not at the rate we all want? Absolutely. I don't
recall any dieter in their first months ever wanting loss to happen
at the rates it happens at. No matter how fast or slow they lost.

It's got to be about doing the right things not about what the scale
said today or last week or last month. Behavior can be controlled,
the scale can't.

RCE wrote:
> "Del Cecchi" <delcecchiofthenorth@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:515bp9F1im87hU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>>I believe that is a non issue. If you burn the glycogen in your body, the
>>body will replace it. If not enough food to replace it it will use
>>something else, like fat or muscle. interesting web site at
>>http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html
>>if you are into the geeky aspects of tracking and monitoring. Also has
>>some excellent info even if you aren't
>
>
>
> I stumbled upon Walker's "Hacker's Diet" when I first started my program and
> have modeled much of what I am doing on his theories. If nothing else, his
> "Hacker's Diet" is humorous, fun to read and appeals to
> technical/engineering nerds like me.
>
> The only thing I emphasize more than he does is exercise.
>
> Did you know he was the founder and president of AutoDesk ... producer of
> the computer aided design program, "AutoCad"?
>
> RCE
>
>
Yes. And it might have been you that I got the link from in the first
place. He has a lot of good ideas even if I am not that uh analytical.

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

On 17 Jan 2007 07:53:31 -0800, "Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Veggies are good on any type of plan. No one ever got fat
>from eating too much cauliflower. Though some day I figure
>I'll encounter someone with some sort of reaction to cauliflower
>that it triggered binges and my "no one" will come to mean
>99.99% of people, at the moment my observations still have
>it at actuall 100% ...

LOL. I've probably got one of the worst binge eating problems of
anyone here. Cauliflower is my favourite vegetable and I eat it
several times a week. But bingeing on cauliflower is not something
that has ever entered my mind for one moment. So I think your theory
is probably right

janice