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  #1  
Old 12-07-2006, 02:49 PM
PeterB
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Default WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health

WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
Discourse on Matters of Public Health

To : All participants and readers of sci.med, misc.health.alternative,
uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine

Please be aware that many comments and responses posted to this forum
are not those of casual posters interested in an honest exchange. A
number of individuals with ties to industry are attempting to shape
public thinking about the risks of mainstream medicine while attacking
the benefits and validity of natural medicine. I refer to these
individuals broadly as "Pharma-bloggers" (see footnote). For obvious
reasons, pharma-bloggers on usenet don't promote a specific company or
product, as might be the case with standard "blogging" on a weblog, but
there is a common thread between industry blogging in a web blog and
industry participation in a newsgroup: both are done under the pretense
that the poster is not professionally affiliated. Most of these people
are likely to be associated with a PR project whose "blogging" efforts
are underwritten anonymously by the media or marketing groups of
industry. They are not difficult to identify due to specific patterns
in their posting. Please familiarize yourself with these tactics so
you can identify them.

See: http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2003Q1/monger.html
See: http://emord.com/stories/cherish.htm

What to look for while participating in usenet newsgroups:

1. Pharmabloggers on usenet use intimidation, mockery, and insults to
silence those who express belief or interest in natural medicine. They
actively discourage a scientific discussion and disrupt ongoing
discussions that explore alternative treatments in healthcare.

2. Pharmabloggers on usenet attack those who question the effectiveness
of mainstream medicine, asserting that disease-management "healthcare"
is the only viable form of treatment. Their comments are frequently
embedded in pseudo-scientific jargon, but without supporting scientific
documentation.

3. Pharmabloggers on usenet post the majority of their responses simply
to bury the comments of others; they also strive obsessively to have
the last word.

4. Pharmabloggers on usenet are much faster at posting than casual
participants; they almost always respond first to a new thread,
question, or observation.

5. Pharmabloggers on usenet use a "pile on" tactic to create an
aura of the "consensus view" in an effort to isolate posters who
disagree with them. You will experience this if you express a belief
in natural medicine or holistic healing. You will also see this tactic
used more often than any other.

6. Pharmabloggers on usenet refute numerous quality studies published
in major medical journals showing the benefits of natural medicine
applied in naturopathic healthcare, including nutrient supplementation,
exercise, stress reduction, biofeedback, accupuncture, accupressure,
reflexology, and other approaches. You can find the science supporting
a variety of natural medicine methods at http://www.newstarget.com.

7. Pharmabloggers on usenet frequently refer readers to "quack-busting"
websites designed to attack natural medicine approaches and their
proponents. Under the guise of "consumer protection," the extreme bias
of these promoters belies their true motives and reveals their ties to
industry.

8. Pharmabloggers on usenet rely on junk science references to support
their attacks on natural healing methods. They decline to provide
meaningful scientific references in support of their defense of most
conventional treatments. Since most conventional medicines are either
marginally effective, unproven, or dangerous, it is not suprising that
purely anecdotal or observational studies (usually sponsored by the
drug makers) are the only "science" available to them.

9. Pharmabloggers on usenet assert that conventional medicine is
"evidence based," however the lack of corroborating science disproves
that claim. Chemotherapy drugs, for instance, are unproven in the
majority of cancers, yet FDA permits these drugs to remain in use as
"experimental trial" medications, as has been the case for more
than thirty years. For most cancer patients, there is no proven
benefit in the use of these expensive and toxic chemicals.

10. Pharmabloggers on usenet ignore iatrogenic studies that show the
dangerous side effects of prescription drugs (ie., at least 100,000
deaths annually), as well as a 20% recall for all previously approved
drugs. They also ignore hundreds of studies showing a disease
relationship to use of such drugs and other unsafe medical treatments.


Tip: If you find yourself engaging a poster whose defense of mainstream
medicine is unusually dramatic in tone, or inexplicably vicious toward
others, and if that response is an attempt to attack natural medicine,
you can be sure you have stumbled upon a PR grunt whose mission is
preventing a critical mass of consumer awareness about disinformation
regarding matters of public health. Unfortunately, there are more of
these individuals posting to usenet on a daily basis than almost anyone
else, which is why I am posting this alert. If you find it odd that so
few people on health-related usenet newsgroups are expressing an
interest in natural medicine, it isn't because they aren't there, it's
because they have been intimidated into silence. The pharma-bloggers
have over-run the various newsgroups with their industrial brand of
dogma, mockery, and ridicule. Many casual posters are simply
frightened away, which is the objective of these PR-sponsored media
grunts.

* From Wikipedia: "An internet forum is not a blog (technically
speaking), but a blog can function as an internet forum. Internet
forums typically allow any user to post (into the discussion). Blogs
typically limit posting to the blogger or to the blogger and approved
others. The distinction between blogs and forums is sometimes gray.
Sites such as Slashdot, Indymedia and Daily Kos combine elements of the
two...many bloggers differentiate themselves from the mainstream media,
WHILE OTHERS ARE MEMBERS OF THAT MEDIA WORKING THROUGH A DIFFERENT
CHANNEL. SOME INSTITUTIONS SEE BLOGGING AS A MEANS OF "GETTING AROUND
THE FILTER" AND PUSHING MESSAGES DIRECTLY TO THE PUBLIC. Some critics
worry that bloggers respect neither intellectual property nor the role
of the mass media in presenting society with credible news...A blog is
a website in which items are posted on a regular basis and displayed in
reverse chronological order...Blogs use a conversational style of
documentation. Often blogs focus on a particular "area of interest",
such as Washington, D.C.'s political goings-on. Some blogs discuss
personal experiences."

While the advent of blogging was preceded by newsgroups, there are many
similiarities between posters in these venues. Primarily, the two are
distinguished by differences in their software platforms, not by the
uniqueness of published content. Please note that I did not refer to
the newsgroup itself as a weblog, I referred to individual posters as
"blogging" here on behalf of industry. While my focus is on nutrition
and science, the pharmabloggers rely on semantic and personal attacks
in their effort to distract from the real issues.

Pharmablogger: An individual who uses the Internet, and Usenet
newsgroups, to: 1) promote and defend maintstream medicine and disease
management; 2) attack those who express a favorable view of natural
medicine; and 3) cite a variety of junk medical science funded by
industry for the purpose of establishing markets for marginally
effective, and often dangerous, medical products and devices.
Typically, such references are by inference only, so as to avoid
linking directly to promotional material on the drug makers'
websites, which would make their ties to industry too obvious.

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  #2  
Old 12-07-2006, 02:49 PM
Mark Probert
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact thePublic Discourse on Matters of Public Health

PeterB wrote:
> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
> Discourse on Matters of Public Health


"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge
is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."

Petey, I hope one day that someone takes pity on you and writes a song
of the quality of the Edmund Fitzgerald about your shipwreck.
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2006, 10:01 PM
HCN
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Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


"PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165500691.564594.230580@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
> Discourse on Matters of Public Health
>
> To : All participants and readers of sci.med, misc.health.alternative,
> uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine
>

.....

None of those groups are blogs.

(you claiming otherwise makes you look like an idiot)


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  #4  
Old 12-07-2006, 10:01 PM
coonskin@amestwp.com
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Default Warning, was "WARNING: Industry"

The last time this was posted the author was asked to provide an example
by which this "shotgun" approach could be illustrated, it is of yet not
forthcoming. What this, putting the best possible face on it, is an
attempt to head off critical looks at the "alterblogger" posts which
push products of dubious utility from the big "alternative" industry
with income in the multiple billions per year.

When an example is provided then this can be a serious discussion but
now remains as before propaganda of "sour grapes" produced on a failure
of scientific facts to support many of the "alterblogger" claims. Those
claims must stand on their own merit, not the false support of stick
jabbing at what can be scientifically supported.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2006, 10:01 PM
vernon
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


"HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Q4GdnZ8EXPtKquXYnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165500691.564594.230580@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
>> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
>> Discourse on Matters of Public Health
>>
>> To : All participants and readers of sci.med, misc.health.alternative,
>> uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine
>>

> ....
>
> None of those groups are blogs.
>
> (you claiming otherwise makes you look like an idiot)



Claiming that the statement inferred that the News Groups are / were Blogs
is outright ignorance.
FYI
Blogging a News Group is posting information on a News Group that one would
expect and see on a personal (or paid) agenda blog.

DDUUUHHHH


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  #6  
Old 12-07-2006, 10:01 PM
Richard Schultz
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Warning, was "WARNING: Industry"

In misc.health.alternative coonskin@amestwp.com wrote:

: The last time this was posted the author was asked to provide an example
: by which this "shotgun" approach could be illustrated, it is of yet not
: forthcoming.

When has the author been forthcoming about *anything*?

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
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  #7  
Old 12-07-2006, 10:01 PM
PeterB
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Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


vernon wrote:
> "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:Q4GdnZ8EXPtKquXYnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >
> > "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1165500691.564594.230580@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
> >> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
> >> Discourse on Matters of Public Health
> >>
> >> To : All participants and readers of sci.med, misc.health.alternative,
> >> uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine
> >>

> > ....
> >
> > None of those groups are blogs.
> >
> > (you claiming otherwise makes you look like an idiot)

>
>
> Claiming that the statement inferred that the News Groups are / were Blogs
> is outright ignorance.
> FYI
> Blogging a News Group is posting information on a News Group that one would
> expect and see on a personal (or paid) agenda blog.
>
> DDUUUHHHH


Welcome back -- I thought you might be on vacation. You're right, it's
a description of the activity, not the medium. I guess I could have
used "pharmaflogging," but knowing they hate "pharmablogger" more, I'll
stick with that.

PeterB

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  #8  
Old 12-07-2006, 10:01 PM
PeterB
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Warning, was "WARNING: Industry"


Richard Schultz wrote:
> In misc.health.alternative coonskin@amestwp.com wrote:
>
> : The last time this was posted the author was asked to provide an example
> : by which this "shotgun" approach could be illustrated, it is of yet not
> : forthcoming.
>
> When has the author been forthcoming about *anything*?


Have you posted a new thread with your links as requested, or will you
make excuses for not having my address for postal delivery? We
wouldn't want anyone to think you weren't forthcoming, would we
pharmboy?

PeterB

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  #9  
Old 12-07-2006, 10:01 PM
PeterB
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Warning, was "WARNING: Industry"


coonskin@amestwp.com wrote:
> The last time this was posted the author was asked to provide an example
> by which this "shotgun" approach could be illustrated, it is of yet not
> forthcoming. What this, putting the best possible face on it, is an
> attempt to head off critical looks at the "alterblogger" posts which
> push products of dubious utility from the big "alternative" industry
> with income in the multiple billions per year.


I don't push products, I merely point out the differences between drugs
and nutrients. And if industry size is the issue, the dietary
supplement industry is but a small fraction the size of the drug
business.

> When an example is provided then this can be a serious discussion but
> now remains as before propaganda of "sour grapes" produced on a failure
> of scientific facts to support many of the "alterblogger" claims. Those
> claims must stand on their own merit, not the false support of stick
> jabbing at what can be scientifically supported.


If you mean claims that natural medicine is more effective in treating
disease than drugs, there is evidence to support those comments. A
review of the history of my posts will show several hundred references
in the past year alone, plus Roman Bystrianyk posts similar articles
here on an almost daily basis. By contrast, when asked for
risk-adjusted outcomes for various pharmaceutical drugs, you remain
conspicuously silent. BTW, it's considered bad form to change another
poster's subject header. If you can't argue the facts, changing the
header isn't going to make your case.

PeterB

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  #10  
Old 12-07-2006, 10:01 PM
coonskin@amestwp.com
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Default Re: Warning, was "WARNING: Industry"

"I don't push products, I merely point out the differences between drugs
and nutrients. And if industry size is the issue, the dietary
supplement industry is but a small fraction the size of the drug
business."

You push propaganda in support of the marketers. The "alternative"
market is very big business, many times the size of other familiar ones.
The point was that commercial intrest in aquiring even more billions
then it does now is also with this industry.

"If you mean claims that natural medicine is more effective in treating
disease than drugs, there is evidence to support those comments. A
review of the history of my posts will show several hundred references
in the past year alone, plus Roman Bystrianyk posts similar articles
here on an almost daily basis."

Because you cross posted this mindless slam against imagined windmills I
don't see your posts as "here" is not where I saw you for the first time
a couple of weeks ago with the first go round of this topic.

Please do show me some examples of the broad sweeping claim above. I
don't care to track your posts from other newsgroups. If you post so
much then many should be at your fingertips. If it be so easy then I
will pick the area, illustrate your claims with diabetes.

"By contrast, when asked for risk-adjusted outcomes for various
pharmaceutical drugs, you remain conspicuously silent. BTW, it's
considered bad form to change another poster's subject header. If you
can't argue the facts, changing the header isn't going to make your
case."


I think you have me confused with another, I ahve never before
interacted with you to my knowledge before your first post on this topic
as above.
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  #11  
Old 12-07-2006, 10:01 PM
vernon
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Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


"PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165519265.180637.261580@f1g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>
> vernon wrote:
>> "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:Q4GdnZ8EXPtKquXYnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> >
>> > "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1165500691.564594.230580@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
>> >> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
>> >> Discourse on Matters of Public Health
>> >>
>> >> To : All participants and readers of sci.med, misc.health.alternative,
>> >> uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine
>> >>
>> > ....
>> >
>> > None of those groups are blogs.
>> >
>> > (you claiming otherwise makes you look like an idiot)

>>
>>
>> Claiming that the statement inferred that the News Groups are / were
>> Blogs
>> is outright ignorance.
>> FYI
>> Blogging a News Group is posting information on a News Group that one
>> would
>> expect and see on a personal (or paid) agenda blog.
>>
>> DDUUUHHHH

>
> Welcome back -- I thought you might be on vacation. You're right, it's
> a description of the activity, not the medium. I guess I could have
> used "pharmaflogging," but knowing they hate "pharmablogger" more, I'll
> stick with that.
>
> PeterB
>


Pharmanure?
Pharmanurring?
Pharmiging?
Pharmplopping?


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  #12  
Old 12-08-2006, 07:01 AM
HCN
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


"vernon" <stillhere@anhere> wrote in message
news:4578486c$0$23644$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.co m...
>
> "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:Q4GdnZ8EXPtKquXYnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
>> "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1165500691.564594.230580@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
>>> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
>>> Discourse on Matters of Public Health
>>>
>>> To : All participants and readers of sci.med, misc.health.alternative,
>>> uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine
>>>

>> ....
>>
>> None of those groups are blogs.
>>
>> (you claiming otherwise makes you look like an idiot)

>
>
> Claiming that the statement inferred that the News Groups are / were Blogs
> is outright ignorance.
> FYI
> Blogging a News Group is posting information on a News Group that one
> would expect and see on a personal (or paid) agenda blog.
>
> DDUUUHHHH
>


That is one of the most idiotic things I have ever read.

The newsgroups are not blogs. Posting on a newsgroup on Usenet is not
blogging.

"Blog" is derived from the term "Web log", basically maintaining a log book
of thoughts on the Internet, in other words an online diary. Usenet is not
the "web", nor is it the Internet. So using the term "blogging" as a
reference to posting on Usenet is outright stupidity.

This has been mentioned to peteyb, but he is trying to make "all better" by
defining it to what he wants. The world does not work that way. He is just
making himself look like an idiot... and so are you by following along like
a little sheep.


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  #13  
Old 12-08-2006, 07:55 PM
vernon
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


"HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:WfqdnZephOQ8JuXYnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> "vernon" <stillhere@anhere> wrote in message
> news:4578486c$0$23644$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.co m...
>>
>> "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:Q4GdnZ8EXPtKquXYnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>>
>>> "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1165500691.564594.230580@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
>>>> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
>>>> Discourse on Matters of Public Health
>>>>
>>>> To : All participants and readers of sci.med, misc.health.alternative,
>>>> uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine
>>>>
>>> ....
>>>
>>> None of those groups are blogs.
>>>
>>> (you claiming otherwise makes you look like an idiot)

>>
>>
>> Claiming that the statement inferred that the News Groups are / were
>> Blogs is outright ignorance.
>> FYI
>> Blogging a News Group is posting information on a News Group that one
>> would expect and see on a personal (or paid) agenda blog.
>>
>> DDUUUHHHH
>>

>
> That is one of the most idiotic things I have ever read.
>
> The newsgroups are not blogs.


Slow aren't you.
I didn't say they were.

Of course you don't know the origination of the term blog and why certain
personal agenda sites are thus called blogs.

DUUHHHHH

>Posting on a newsgroup on Usenet is not blogging.


According to YOU

>
> "Blog" is derived from the term "Web log", basically maintaining a log
> book of thoughts on the Internet, in other words an online diary. Usenet
> is not the "web", nor is it the Internet. So using the term "blogging" as
> a reference to posting on Usenet is outright stupidity.


O.K. Your definition states clearly that blogging on a dial up really isn't
blogging because the person really isn't on the WEB.


>
> This has been mentioned to peteyb, but he is trying to make "all better"
> by defining it to what he wants. The world does not work that way. He is
> just making himself look like an idiot... and so are you by following
> along like a little sheep.


Come back when you ACTUALLY know something about language ant the INTERNET.


Start with finding out where Blog really came from.
Find out that the term "web" is NOT an acronym.

Usenet is about as close to the full meaning of "web" as it gets.
Posting ideas and propaganda on the Usenet is one step deeper than simply
creating a personally owned site.

You are by NO MEANS an aficionado of the internet. You have your limited
little teen age jargon within which you have created your own definitions.

What do you call it when a person creates a web log within a news group?

What do you call it when a person or persons create a log of information
within a corporate web, not available to the general public? Of COURSE you
know there are such webs comprised of thousands of users.

Bottom line.

PHARMS create there own blog network within individual and groups of News
Groups. They PRETEND to be mere participants.
Gee, sounds like some of the independent blogs where the owner is not truly
revealed.

WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
Discourse on Matters of Public Health.



A TRUTH


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  #14  
Old 12-08-2006, 07:55 PM
coonskin@amestwp.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health

"Bottom line.

PHARMS create there own blog network within individual and groups of
News
Groups. They PRETEND to be mere participants.
Gee, sounds like some of the independent blogs where the owner is not
truly
revealed.

WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
Discourse on Matters of Public Health."

We know we know, all we need now is just one example of a newsgroup
posting from these evil "pharmabloggers" to make reality for what to now
is only speculation.

They appear to be as rare as hen's teeth, while multiple "alterblogger"
posts touting one nostrum or another appears it seems daily. Or if not
specific nostrums pitches for "alternative" this and that as the sure
cure/treatment for something as opposed to the evil "other".
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  #15  
Old 12-08-2006, 07:55 PM
HCN
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


"vernon" <stillhere@anhere> wrote in message
news:45797a0a$0$23573$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.co m...
>
> "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:WfqdnZephOQ8JuXYnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
>> "vernon" <stillhere@anhere> wrote in message
>> news:4578486c$0$23644$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.co m...
>>>
>>> "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Q4GdnZ8EXPtKquXYnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>>>
>>>> "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1165500691.564594.230580@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
>>>>> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
>>>>> Discourse on Matters of Public Health
>>>>>
>>>>> To : All participants and readers of sci.med, misc.health.alternative,
>>>>> uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine
>>>>>
>>>> ....
>>>>
>>>> None of those groups are blogs.
>>>>
>>>> (you claiming otherwise makes you look like an idiot)
>>>
>>>
>>> Claiming that the statement inferred that the News Groups are / were
>>> Blogs is outright ignorance.
>>> FYI
>>> Blogging a News Group is posting information on a News Group that one
>>> would expect and see on a personal (or paid) agenda blog.
>>>
>>> DDUUUHHHH
>>>

>>
>> That is one of the most idiotic things I have ever read.
>>
>> The newsgroups are not blogs.

>
> Slow aren't you.
> I didn't say they were.
>
> Of course you don't know the origination of the term blog and why certain
> personal agenda sites are thus called blogs.
>
> DUUHHHHH
>
>>Posting on a newsgroup on Usenet is not blogging.

>
> According to YOU



Actually, according to everyone but you and peatyb.

>
>>
>> "Blog" is derived from the term "Web log", basically maintaining a log
>> book of thoughts on the Internet, in other words an online diary. Usenet
>> is not the "web", nor is it the Internet. So using the term "blogging"
>> as a reference to posting on Usenet is outright stupidity.

>
> O.K. Your definition states clearly that blogging on a dial up really
> isn't blogging because the person really isn't on the WEB.
>
>
>>
>> This has been mentioned to peteyb, but he is trying to make "all better"
>> by defining it to what he wants. The world does not work that way. He
>> is just making himself look like an idiot... and so are you by following
>> along like a little sheep.

>
> Come back when you ACTUALLY know something about language ant the
> INTERNET.
>
>
> Start with finding out where Blog really came from.
> Find out that the term "web" is NOT an acronym.
>
> Usenet is about as close to the full meaning of "web" as it gets.
> Posting ideas and propaganda on the Usenet is one step deeper than simply
> creating a personally owned site.
>
> You are by NO MEANS an aficionado of the internet. You have your limited
> little teen age jargon within which you have created your own definitions.
>
> What do you call it when a person creates a web log within a news group?
>
> What do you call it when a person or persons create a log of information
> within a corporate web, not available to the general public? Of COURSE
> you know there are such webs comprised of thousands of users.
>
> Bottom line.
>
> PHARMS create there own blog network within individual and groups of News
> Groups. They PRETEND to be mere participants.
> Gee, sounds like some of the independent blogs where the owner is not
> truly revealed.
>
> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
> Discourse on Matters of Public Health.
>
>
>
> A TRUTH
>
>


What color is the sky on your planet?


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  #16  
Old 12-08-2006, 07:55 PM
vernon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


<coonskin@amestwp.com> wrote in message
news:45797e9f$0$24655$1c4686b2@selenium.club.cc.cm u.edu...
> "Bottom line.
>
> PHARMS create there own blog network within individual and groups of
> News
> Groups. They PRETEND to be mere participants.
> Gee, sounds like some of the independent blogs where the owner is not
> truly
> revealed.
>
> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
> Discourse on Matters of Public Health."
>
> We know we know, all we need now is just one example of a newsgroup
> posting from these evil "pharmabloggers" to make reality for what to now
> is only speculation.



The pharmers are pure, uneducated sales persons.

Real researchers and lab people know the advantages of both, which includes
when prescription (dangerous) solutions are not required and OTC or
supplements work better with less side effects.

There is not a singe person classed as "pharmblogger" who adds any
information or credibility to the often real advantages of pharmaceuticals
where needed. REAL ADVANTAGES.


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  #17  
Old 12-08-2006, 07:55 PM
vernon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


"HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:bc-dnWKGI4vrAuTYnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "vernon" <stillhere@anhere> wrote in message
> news:45797a0a$0$23573$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.co m...
>>
>> "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:WfqdnZephOQ8JuXYnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>>
>>> "vernon" <stillhere@anhere> wrote in message
>>> news:4578486c$0$23644$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.co m...
>>>>
>>>> "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:Q4GdnZ8EXPtKquXYnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>>>>
>>>>> "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1165500691.564594.230580@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
>>>>>> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
>>>>>> Discourse on Matters of Public Health
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To : All participants and readers of sci.med,
>>>>>> misc.health.alternative,
>>>>>> uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine
>>>>>>
>>>>> ....
>>>>>
>>>>> None of those groups are blogs.
>>>>>
>>>>> (you claiming otherwise makes you look like an idiot)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Claiming that the statement inferred that the News Groups are / were
>>>> Blogs is outright ignorance.
>>>> FYI
>>>> Blogging a News Group is posting information on a News Group that one
>>>> would expect and see on a personal (or paid) agenda blog.
>>>>
>>>> DDUUUHHHH
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is one of the most idiotic things I have ever read.
>>>
>>> The newsgroups are not blogs.

>>
>> Slow aren't you.
>> I didn't say they were.
>>
>> Of course you don't know the origination of the term blog and why certain
>> personal agenda sites are thus called blogs.
>>
>> DUUHHHHH
>>
>>>Posting on a newsgroup on Usenet is not blogging.

>>
>> According to YOU

>
>
> Actually, according to everyone but you and peatyb.
>
>>
>>>
>>> "Blog" is derived from the term "Web log", basically maintaining a log
>>> book of thoughts on the Internet, in other words an online diary.
>>> Usenet is not the "web", nor is it the Internet. So using the term
>>> "blogging" as a reference to posting on Usenet is outright stupidity.

>>
>> O.K. Your definition states clearly that blogging on a dial up really
>> isn't blogging because the person really isn't on the WEB.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> This has been mentioned to peteyb, but he is trying to make "all better"
>>> by defining it to what he wants. The world does not work that way. He
>>> is just making himself look like an idiot... and so are you by following
>>> along like a little sheep.

>>
>> Come back when you ACTUALLY know something about language ant the
>> INTERNET.
>>
>>
>> Start with finding out where Blog really came from.
>> Find out that the term "web" is NOT an acronym.
>>
>> Usenet is about as close to the full meaning of "web" as it gets.
>> Posting ideas and propaganda on the Usenet is one step deeper than simply
>> creating a personally owned site.
>>
>> You are by NO MEANS an aficionado of the internet. You have your limited
>> little teen age jargon within which you have created your own
>> definitions.
>>
>> What do you call it when a person creates a web log within a news group?
>>
>> What do you call it when a person or persons create a log of information
>> within a corporate web, not available to the general public? Of COURSE
>> you know there are such webs comprised of thousands of users.
>>
>> Bottom line.
>>
>> PHARMS create there own blog network within individual and groups of News
>> Groups. They PRETEND to be mere participants.
>> Gee, sounds like some of the independent blogs where the owner is not
>> truly revealed.
>>
>> WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public
>> Discourse on Matters of Public Health.
>>
>>
>>
>> A TRUTH
>>
>>

>
> What color is the sky on your planet?


It's not acoustic ceiling in an isolated room.

You see, I actually have worked with and still do work with many pharm
agencies.
I know the difference between reality and the advertising arm.
I know the training given to the sales people.

Just the other day (last week) I was introduced to a woman who made a great
deal of money in pharm sales working with Doctors. It got to the point that
she learned some more truths. She now works in the office at a
Chiropractor, and selling outside, earning about half and feels much better
about herself. She didn't burn her bridges behind her and constantly gets
calls.


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  #18  
Old 12-09-2006, 04:48 AM
coonskin@amestwp.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health

> We know we know, all we need now is just one example of a newsgroup
> posting from these evil "pharmabloggers" to make reality for what to

now
> is only speculation.



The pharmers are pure, uneducated sales persons.

Real researchers and lab people know the advantages of both, which
includes
when prescription (dangerous) solutions are not required and OTC or
supplements work better with less side effects.

"There is not a singe person classed as "pharmblogger" who adds any
information or credibility to the often real advantages of
pharmaceuticals where needed. REAL ADVANTAGES."

We know we know, we still seek one example of a newsgroup post where
industry is sending posters in the way the original author suggested to
make further discussion aside from gossip and speculation possible.
..

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  #19  
Old 12-09-2006, 04:48 AM
vernon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


<coonskin@amestwp.com> wrote in message
news:4579c61d$0$24653$1c4686b2@selenium.club.cc.cm u.edu...
>> We know we know, all we need now is just one example of a newsgroup
>> posting from these evil "pharmabloggers" to make reality for what to

> now
>> is only speculation.

>
>
> The pharmers are pure, uneducated sales persons.
>
> Real researchers and lab people know the advantages of both, which
> includes
> when prescription (dangerous) solutions are not required and OTC or
> supplements work better with less side effects.
>
> "There is not a singe person classed as "pharmblogger" who adds any
> information or credibility to the often real advantages of
> pharmaceuticals where needed. REAL ADVANTAGES."
>
> We know we know, we still seek one example of a newsgroup post where
> industry is sending posters in the way the original author suggested to
> make further discussion aside from gossip and speculation possible.
> .
>


If you can't see them by reading, you are hopeless.


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  #20  
Old 12-09-2006, 07:52 PM
coonskin@amestwp.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health

> We know we know, we still seek one example of a newsgroup post where
> industry is sending posters in the way the original author suggested

to
> make further discussion aside from gossip and speculation possible.
> .
>


"If you can't see them by reading, you are hopeless."

We know we know, now we need someone with the "special magic glasses" to
point we the blind to one example in the real world so we can discuss
it. I "see" some "alternative" supporters being challendged on the
science of their claims, are those the "pharmabloggers"?

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  #21  
Old 12-09-2006, 07:52 PM
vernon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


<coonskin@amestwp.com> wrote in message
news:457ac0b9$0$24662$1c4686b2@selenium.club.cc.cm u.edu...
>> We know we know, we still seek one example of a newsgroup post where
>> industry is sending posters in the way the original author suggested

> to
>> make further discussion aside from gossip and speculation possible.
>> .
>>

>
> "If you can't see them by reading, you are hopeless."
>
> We know we know, now we need someone with the "special magic glasses" to
> point we the blind to one example in the real world so we can discuss
> it. I "see" some "alternative" supporters being challendged on the
> science of their claims, are those the "pharmabloggers"?
>


Challenged?

Challenge on the base that they state that prescription drugs are not
dangerous even though officially classified as such by the FDA.
Challenge on the basis that all drugs are safe.
Challenge on the base that NO supplements are advantageous.
Challenge on the base that the average American does not need supplements.

Intensely stupid or paid. I can't imagine any one that stupid. Well, yes,
many otherwise intelligent sales people start actually believing their own
hype.


There is a wide difference.

Drugs have their place. Drugs to the exclusion of "alternate" methods is a
con by those who are supported by the drug or AMA industry.

Many, many Doctors disagree with the drug sale pitch as well as most
researchers within drug companies.


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  #22  
Old 12-09-2006, 07:52 PM
coonskin@amestwp.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health

> We know we know, now we need someone with the "special magic glasses"
to
> point we the blind to one example in the real world so we can discuss
> it. I "see" some "alternative" supporters being challendged on the
> science of their claims, are those the "pharmabloggers"?


"Challenged?

Challenge on the base that they state that prescription drugs are not
dangerous even though officially classified as such by the FDA.
Challenge on the basis that all drugs are safe.
Challenge on the base that NO supplements are advantageous.
Challenge on the base that the average American does not need
supplements.

Intensely stupid or paid. I can't imagine any one that stupid. Well,
yes,
many otherwise intelligent sales people start actually believing their
own
hype.


There is a wide difference.

Drugs have their place. Drugs to the exclusion of "alternate" methods
is a
con by those who are supported by the drug or AMA industry.

Many, many Doctors disagree with the drug sale pitch as well as most
researchers within drug companies."

We know we know, now show us at least one of those sent by the drug
industry as the subject of this thread charges so we can have an example
to discuss. I see people challenging the claims of some "alternative"
poster's on the basis of scientific validity, are those the
"pharmabloggers"? Are they such when they only cast a critical eye on
those claims without supporting any drug or marketing practice in the
least?
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  #23  
Old 12-09-2006, 08:51 PM
vernon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


<coonskin@amestwp.com> wrote in message
news:457ad51c$0$24662$1c4686b2@selenium.club.cc.cm u.edu...
>> We know we know, now we need someone with the "special magic glasses"

> to
>> point we the blind to one example in the real world so we can discuss
>> it. I "see" some "alternative" supporters being challendged on the
>> science of their claims, are those the "pharmabloggers"?

>
> "Challenged?
>
> Challenge on the base that they state that prescription drugs are not
> dangerous even though officially classified as such by the FDA.
> Challenge on the basis that all drugs are safe.
> Challenge on the base that NO supplements are advantageous.
> Challenge on the base that the average American does not need
> supplements.
>
> Intensely stupid or paid. I can't imagine any one that stupid. Well,
> yes,
> many otherwise intelligent sales people start actually believing their
> own
> hype.
>
>
> There is a wide difference.
>
> Drugs have their place. Drugs to the exclusion of "alternate" methods
> is a
> con by those who are supported by the drug or AMA industry.
>
> Many, many Doctors disagree with the drug sale pitch as well as most
> researchers within drug companies."
>
> We know we know, now show us at least one of those sent by the drug
> industry as the subject of this thread charges so we can have an example
> to discuss. I see people challenging the claims of some "alternative"
> poster's on the basis of scientific validity, are those the
> "pharmabloggers"? Are they such when they only cast a critical eye on
> those claims without supporting any drug or marketing practice in the
> least?


Intensely stupid or paid. I can't imagine any one that stupid. Well,
yes,
many otherwise intelligent sales people start actually believing their
own
hype.


TAKE YOUR CHOICE


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  #24  
Old 12-09-2006, 10:48 PM
coonskin@amestwp.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health

> We know we know, now show us at least one of those sent by the drug
> industry as the subject of this thread charges so we can have an

example
> to discuss. I see people challenging the claims of some "alternative"
> poster's on the basis of scientific validity, are those the
> "pharmabloggers"? Are they such when they only cast a critical eye on
> those claims without supporting any drug or marketing practice in the
> least?


"Intensely stupid or paid. I can't imagine any one that stupid. Well,
yes, many otherwise intelligent sales people start actually believing
their own hype.


TAKE YOUR CHOICE"

We know we know, just one example please for discussion purposes. Show
us how the subjectline works by one example post by an industry sent
"pharmablogger" please. So, if someone is critical of the "alternative"
industry unsupported claims on scientific grounds then they are stupid
or in the pay of someone?

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  #25  
Old 12-10-2006, 10:02 AM
vernon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health


<coonskin@amestwp.com> wrote in message
news:457b2901$0$24655$1c4686b2@selenium.club.cc.cm u.edu...
>> We know we know, now show us at least one of those sent by the drug
>> industry as the subject of this thread charges so we can have an

> example
>> to discuss. I see people challenging the claims of some "alternative"
>> poster's on the basis of scientific validity, are those the
>> "pharmabloggers"? Are they such when they only cast a critical eye on
>> those claims without supporting any drug or marketing practice in the
>> least?

>
> "Intensely stupid or paid. I can't imagine any one that stupid. Well,
> yes, many otherwise intelligent sales people start actually believing
> their own hype.
>
>
> TAKE YOUR CHOICE"
>
> We know we know, just one example please for discussion purposes. Show
> us how the subjectline works by one example post by an industry sent
> "pharmablogger" please. So, if someone is critical of the "alternative"
> industry unsupported claims on scientific grounds then they are stupid
> or in the pay of someone?
>



I said NOTHING about just being critical.
If you can't see them (The pharm pushers / anti supplement), you have a BIG
problem.
Stupid or paid, take your choice. Choice three is stupid and paid.

Now, go get an education, especially in how to take care of yourself and
THEN go to a doctor when ALL ELSE fails.

Doctors are not gods.
Drugs are not a panacea.

EVERY attempt should be made to find out what YOU need. You were NOT born
with a deficiency in ANY marketed drug. You WERE born with a need for
certain supplements.
Also find what 3 sigma and 6 sigma means and apply it. KNOW that it APPLIES
to the TOTAL population.
The educated know that the edges are the ones and only ones who require
"PRESCRIPTION" drugs. Also the edges need way more of certain non-dangerous
supplements.
The fact that some waste money on supplements is different than many who
take prescription drugs (prescription MEANS CONTROL)

There are many schools and books.

See you in a couple years.

Like I say. It is VERY obvious that you are totally uneducated in the
health regime.


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  #26  
Old 12-10-2006, 10:02 AM
coonskin@amestwp.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health

> We know we know, just one example please for discussion purposes.
Show
> us how the subjectline works by one example post by an industry sent
> "pharmablogger" please. So, if someone is critical of the

"alternative"
> industry unsupported claims on scientific grounds then they are stupid
> or in the pay of someone?
>



"I said NOTHING about just being critical. If you can't see them (The
pharm pushers / anti supplement), you have a BIG problem. Stupid or
paid, take your choice. Choice three is stupid and paid.

Now, go get an education, especially in how to take care of yourself and
THEN go to a doctor when ALL ELSE fails.

Doctors are not gods. Drugs are not a panacea.

EVERY attempt should be made to find out what YOU need. You were NOT
born with a deficiency in ANY marketed drug. You WERE born with a need
for certain supplements. Also find what 3 sigma and 6 sigma means and
apply it. KNOW that it APPLIES to the TOTAL population. The educated
know that the edges are the ones and only ones who require
"PRESCRIPTION" drugs. Also the edges need way more of certain
non-dangerous supplements. The fact that some waste money on supplements
is different than many who take prescription drugs (prescription MEANS
CONTROL)

There are many schools and books.

See you in a couple years.

Like I say. It is VERY obvious that you are totally uneducated in the
health regime."

We know we know, for us poor ignorant folk plese do illuminate our
darkness with even one example of what the subject of this thread claims
so we can be as smart as you and for which you should be amptlly
positioned to do with all that superior mental stuff happening.


I want to be able to spot those raving evil "pharmabloggers" so I don't
get pulled into their propaganda when they post in these newsgroups. It
is your moral duty as superior and more informed in these matters to
help we ignorant and weak and so vulnerable inferiors to be cued into by
example their evil ways of leading us around.
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  #27  
Old 12-10-2006, 10:02 AM
vernon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health

P.S. find out how to use your news group reader. Mark previous posts as not
yours.


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  #28  
Old 12-10-2006, 10:02 AM
Richard Schultz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Warning, was "WARNING: Industry"

In misc.health.alternative PeterB <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote:

: I don't push products, I merely point out the differences between drugs
: and nutrients.

What deficiency disease is caused by a lack of "Vitamin B17" in the diet?

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."
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  #