weight-loss / fitness software, fitday et al

I started looking around for diet & fitness software and found quite a
number of candidates. Checking them all out would be a bit of work so
I thought I'd see if some of the folks on these ngs might like to
contribute.

Here's my proposal: I'll create a little database of the more common
or popular fitness software offerings. I'll add fields for whatever
features people feel are relevant and important, such as price,
platform (Win, Mac, Palm, online), support, awards, units (English,
metric), and other features. I'll test as many of them as I can.
Anyone else who wants to test a product can submit reviews and I'll
try to summarize the information in the database.

I'll post the results periodically.

To get us started, here are the products I was able to find in a
couple of hours of searching. I limited myself to software costing
less than $100.



Fitday
http://www.fitday.com/

Fitess Assistant
http://www.x3msoftware.com/

Open Fitness
http://www.workoutware.com/

Diet Power
http://www.dietpower.com/

Health Engage Diet + Fitness
http://www.healthengage.com/healthen...etfitness.html

Natural Physiques
http://www.naturalphysiques.com/nutrition/

WeightMania Pro
http://www.weightmania.com/index.html

BeNutriFit
http://www.benutrifit.com/default.asp

Performance Diet Pro
http://www.health-runr.com/products/products.htm

BodyFitdb
http://www.bodyfitdb.com/

Diet Pro
http://www.dietpro.net/default.htm

Fit Body Pro

Weight by Date
http://www.weightbydate.com/index.html

Desktop Diet

CalorieKing Nutrition & Exercise Manager
http://www.calorieking.com/software/ckdietdiarywin.php



--

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:14:38 -0700, LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>I started looking around for diet & fitness software and found quite a
>number of candidates. Checking them all out would be a bit of work so
>I thought I'd see if some of the folks on these ngs might like to
>contribute.
>
>Here's my proposal: I'll create a little database of the more common
>or popular fitness software offerings. I'll add fields for whatever
>features people feel are relevant and important, such as price,
>platform (Win, Mac, Palm, online), support, awards, units (English,
>metric), and other features. I'll test as many of them as I can.
>Anyone else who wants to test a product can submit reviews and I'll
>try to summarize the information in the database.
>
>I'll post the results periodically.
>
>To get us started, here are the products I was able to find in a
>couple of hours of searching. I limited myself to software costing
>less than $100.

To get ths started, what are the features that a good software
application should include?

At least one of the ones I listed (Diet Power, I think), claimed to
calculate my metabolism over time so that it could better estimate
what it will take to achieve a goal.

Another feature I saw was weight & time goals. I would guess that they
all have this feature, but some may do it better.

One program claimed to keep track of deficits in nutrients throughout
the day and made recommendations from the user's list of favorite
foods as to which ones would provide the needed nutrients without
busting the calorie limits.

Does anyone know of a program that tracts obstacles, such as cravings?
Some days I have no trouble staying away from food. Other days I can't
get it out of my mind. If there is any correlation to the types of
foods recently consumed, it would be good to know what would make the
the cravings go away (carbs, protein, fat, ???). Maybe 100 calories of
fat would be more satisfying than 200 calories of carbs or vise versa.



--

That's a lot of work to do when you can just pop $20 to get an app. It may
be be the best, but it only needs to be good enough. I can name two that
are good enough based on proven user experience: fitday Online and Fitday
Desktop. One of those is free.

LurfysMa wrote:
:: I started looking around for diet & fitness software and found quite
:: a number of candidates. Checking them all out would be a bit of work
:: so I thought I'd see if some of the folks on these ngs might like to
:: contribute.
::
:: Here's my proposal: I'll create a little database of the more common
:: or popular fitness software offerings. I'll add fields for whatever
:: features people feel are relevant and important, such as price,
:: platform (Win, Mac, Palm, online), support, awards, units (English,
:: metric), and other features. I'll test as many of them as I can.
:: Anyone else who wants to test a product can submit reviews and I'll
:: try to summarize the information in the database.
::
:: I'll post the results periodically.
::
:: To get us started, here are the products I was able to find in a
:: couple of hours of searching. I limited myself to software costing
:: less than $100.
::
::
::
:: Fitday
:: http://www.fitday.com/
::
:: Fitess Assistant
:: http://www.x3msoftware.com/
::
:: Open Fitness
:: http://www.workoutware.com/
::
:: Diet Power
:: http://www.dietpower.com/
::
:: Health Engage Diet + Fitness
:: http://www.healthengage.com/healthen...etfitness.html
::
:: Natural Physiques
:: http://www.naturalphysiques.com/nutrition/
::
:: WeightMania Pro
:: http://www.weightmania.com/index.html
::
:: BeNutriFit
:: http://www.benutrifit.com/default.asp
::
:: Performance Diet Pro
:: http://www.health-runr.com/products/products.htm
::
:: BodyFitdb
:: http://www.bodyfitdb.com/
::
:: Diet Pro
:: http://www.dietpro.net/default.htm
::
:: Fit Body Pro
::
:: Weight by Date
:: http://www.weightbydate.com/index.html
::
:: Desktop Diet
::
:: CalorieKing Nutrition & Exercise Manager
:: http://www.calorieking.com/software/ckdietdiarywin.php
::
::
::
:: --

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:33:08 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:

>That's a lot of work to do when you can just pop $20 to get an app. It may
>be be the best, but it only needs to be good enough. I can name two that
>are good enough based on proven user experience: fitday Online and Fitday
>Desktop. One of those is free.

It's not that much work. Maybe a few hours here and there. It's a good
learning experience and maybe a way to give back a little to a lot of
good insight and information I have gleaned over the years reading
these and other ngs. Besides, I always overdo everything. Anything
worth doing is worth overdoing. ;-)

--

I use the Diet and Exercise Assistant (for desktops version)
from: http://www.keyoe.com/
At $10 it's a good deal.
--
LurfysMa wrote:
> I started looking around for diet & fitness software and found quite a
> number of candidates. Checking them all out would be a bit of work so
> I thought I'd see if some of the folks on these ngs might like to
> contribute.
>
> Here's my proposal: I'll create a little database of the more common
> or popular fitness software offerings. I'll add fields for whatever
> features people feel are relevant and important, such as price,
> platform (Win, Mac, Palm, online), support, awards, units (English,
> metric), and other features. I'll test as many of them as I can.
> Anyone else who wants to test a product can submit reviews and I'll
> try to summarize the information in the database.
>
> I'll post the results periodically.
>
> To get us started, here are the products I was able to find in a
> couple of hours of searching. I limited myself to software costing
> less than $100.
>
>
>
> Fitday
> http://www.fitday.com/
>
> Fitess Assistant
> http://www.x3msoftware.com/
>
> Open Fitness
> http://www.workoutware.com/
>
> Diet Power
> http://www.dietpower.com/
>
> Health Engage Diet + Fitness
> http://www.healthengage.com/healthen...etfitness.html
>
> Natural Physiques
> http://www.naturalphysiques.com/nutrition/
>
> WeightMania Pro
> http://www.weightmania.com/index.html
>
> BeNutriFit
> http://www.benutrifit.com/default.asp
>
> Performance Diet Pro
> http://www.health-runr.com/products/products.htm
>
> BodyFitdb
> http://www.bodyfitdb.com/
>
> Diet Pro
> http://www.dietpro.net/default.htm
>
> Fit Body Pro
>
> Weight by Date
> http://www.weightbydate.com/index.html
>
> Desktop Diet
>
> CalorieKing Nutrition & Exercise Manager
> http://www.calorieking.com/software/ckdietdiarywin.php
>
>
>

LurfysMa wrote:
:: On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:33:08 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
::
::: That's a lot of work to do when you can just pop $20 to get an app.
::: It may be be the best, but it only needs to be good enough. I can
::: name two that are good enough based on proven user experience:
::: fitday Online and Fitday Desktop. One of those is free.
::
:: It's not that much work. Maybe a few hours here and there. It's a
:: good learning experience and maybe a way to give back a little to a
:: lot of good insight and information I have gleaned over the years
:: reading these and other ngs. Besides, I always overdo everything.
:: Anything worth doing is worth overdoing. ;-)

Well, if you do the work I'll read the results!

::
:: --

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:32:40 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:

>LurfysMa wrote:
>:: On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:33:08 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
>:: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>::
>::: That's a lot of work to do when you can just pop $20 to get an app.
>::: It may be be the best, but it only needs to be good enough. I can
>::: name two that are good enough based on proven user experience:
>::: fitday Online and Fitday Desktop. One of those is free.
>::
>:: It's not that much work. Maybe a few hours here and there. It's a
>:: good learning experience and maybe a way to give back a little to a
>:: lot of good insight and information I have gleaned over the years
>:: reading these and other ngs. Besides, I always overdo everything.
>:: Anything worth doing is worth overdoing. ;-)
>
>Well, if you do the work I'll read the results!

I'll do some of the work. If there's no response, I'll assume there's
little interest.

--

Forget about the software that claims to calculate your metabolism or the
ones that give you calories burned vs calories eaten information, it's just
a gimmick. It is basically impossible for software to accomplish this
because the nutrition content of food could vary a lot even if you are
eating the same things, also energy expenditure by exercise could vary a lot
based on many factors.


People that say that gimmicks like that work say that just because they are
watching what they eat and that is 90% of your success not the nonsense
numbers.

That's not true. These things can be made to work even if the numbers aren't
exact. And these numbers are simply a tool to help you achieve a goal. They
aren't what makes the goal.


Tim wrote:
:: Forget about the software that claims to calculate your metabolism
:: or the ones that give you calories burned vs calories eaten
:: information, it's just a gimmick. It is basically impossible for
:: software to accomplish this because the nutrition content of food
:: could vary a lot even if you are eating the same things, also energy
:: expenditure by exercise could vary a lot based on many factors.
::
::
:: People that say that gimmicks like that work say that just because
:: they are watching what they eat and that is 90% of your success not
:: the nonsense numbers.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 03:41:45 GMT, "Tim" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>Forget about the software that claims to calculate your metabolism or the
>ones that give you calories burned vs calories eaten information, it's just
>a gimmick. It is basically impossible for software to accomplish this
>because the nutrition content of food could vary a lot even if you are
>eating the same things, also energy expenditure by exercise could vary a lot
>based on many factors.

The values do vary, sometimes quite a lot, but that does not make it
impossible. There are powerful statistical tools that can, over time,
tease out amazing data from apparent chaos. Now, whether any of these
programs actually do that, is another matter.

>People that say that gimmicks like that work say that just because they are
>watching what they eat and that is 90% of your success not the nonsense
>numbers.

Have you tested these products? If you have, I'd like to see your
impressions. I'll add them to my data base.

Otherwise, you are making a lot of attributions about products you
haven't tried and people you don't know. You may be right, but you may
be wrong.

Based on my limited study, I would say that simply keeping track (both
of what I eat and what exercise I do) is a huge factor.


--

> Based on my limited study, I would say that simply keeping track (both
> of what I eat and what exercise I do) is a huge factor.

I agree wholeheartedly.

The commitment to journaling is a big step in
the direction of success, in my opinion.

I think it would make for a worthwhile study;
compare two groups of dieters, one group has
to keep a basic journal (macronutrients, calories,
water, exercise, weight, and any strong emotions)
and the other doesn't. I'd bet that the journaling
group ends up losing more weight in less time.

I'd also bet that people that know nothing at all
about nutrition or dieting would lose weight by
doing nothing more than keeping a journal. The
feedback and extra effort required by journaling
is likely to cause weight loss in and of itself.
In other words, the act of gathering and entering
the data, and the visual feedback are powerful.
--

LurfysMa wrote:
:: On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 03:41:45 GMT, "Tim" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
::
::: Forget about the software that claims to calculate your metabolism
::: or the ones that give you calories burned vs calories eaten
::: information, it's just a gimmick. It is basically impossible for
::: software to accomplish this because the nutrition content of food
::: could vary a lot even if you are eating the same things, also
::: energy expenditure by exercise could vary a lot based on many
::: factors.
::
:: The values do vary, sometimes quite a lot, but that does not make it
:: impossible. There are powerful statistical tools that can, over time,
:: tease out amazing data from apparent chaos. Now, whether any of these
:: programs actually do that, is another matter.
::
::: People that say that gimmicks like that work say that just because
::: they are watching what they eat and that is 90% of your success not
::: the nonsense numbers.
::
:: Have you tested these products? If you have, I'd like to see your
:: impressions. I'll add them to my data base.
::
:: Otherwise, you are making a lot of attributions about products you
:: haven't tried and people you don't know. You may be right, but you
:: may be wrong.
::
:: Based on my limited study, I would say that simply keeping track
:: (both of what I eat and what exercise I do) is a huge factor.

Absolutely its a huge factor. The poster is clueless. Tracking food intake
and exercise (and other things such as emotional states and times when
you're binging, etc.) can easily be used by any intelligent person to
produce weight loss. It is true that this isn't the reason for weight loss,
because a person ahs to decide to do some combintation of eating less and
exercising more to produce weight change. Used properly as a tool, the
software can be a tremendous aid.

It is also true that some people wont' like tracking. the good news is that
some people can be effective at weight control without tracking. I see no
problem there. I personally like to track. if I get up 5 lbs over my target
I just starting tracking with fitday until I get right back to where I want
to be. The good news for me is that I no longer need to track all the time.
Standing on the scale everyday is also a good way to keep tabs on what's
happening, for some. Some people freak out, I don't.

No guy, you are the clueless one.

If you want to spend endless hours analyzing nonsense numbers that are based
on estimations of estimations then have a blast.

Re-read my post, I **never** said that tracking your diet and exercise was a
bad idea, no way!! hell, I track my diet and exercise all the time. What I
don't do is to be silly and do stupid things like comparing calories eaten
vs calories burned, that just idiotic.

There is no doubt that a piece of software has the capacity to track
everything with a degree of extreme accuracy, the problem is that this
accuracy is based on the reliability of the numbers you put in.

How the hell do you think they calculate nutrition facts for foods? Do you
think companies that sell food hire a team of scientist to analyze
everything with absolute accuracy? The dam nutrition's facts for foods are
estimations of estimations, and these estimations are based on a limited
sample of foods and these nutrition facts will vary even more depending on
how you cook the food etc etc. These numbers provide you with just a basic
idea of what you are putting in your mouth. Read the USDA documentation. The
exact same thing applies when you calculate the energy expended during
exercise.

The best thing to do is quite simple, set a target intake calorie amount and
after a week see how much weight you gain or lost and adjust the calorie
intake appropriately.

And yes, I have a good friend that is a dietician. 95% of the people that go
with here track their diet by using portions (they don't even count
calories). The simple fact of watching what their eat makes all the
difference, basing your calorie intake on a software that claims to
understand your metabolism or by comparing calories eaten vs calories burned
is simple RETARDED.

Hey there,

I'm the author of Open Fitness (http://www.workoutware.com), so I'll
offer some comments on differences I've noticed between Open Fitness
and the other software that's out there.

One of the things you'll find that Open Fitness offers, which is
different from the others, is a way to easily share any of your fitness
info (workouts, progress charts, etc) through email, or through an
integrated message board, called the Open Fitness Network
(http://www.openfitness.net). For instance, you could upload your
favorite workout, and all Open Fitness users would have access to it.
They could download it right into their copy of Open Fitness.

Open Fitness is more centered around progress and staying motivated
than other software packages. In addition to making it easy to share
progress, it's also easy to see your progress. Open Fitness
automatically looks at your history and offers progress messages every
time you use it (like 'your bodyweight decreased by X this month',
etc). It also provides comprehensive progress reports, that can be
viewed with just one click.

Another difference is that it can sync with Palm-based devices. I plan
my workouts on the desktop (once a month or so), then they're all
automatically copied to my Treo phone. at the gym, I can enter my
weight/reps into the phone, then they're automatically copied back to
the desktop software.

Open Fitness is one of the few fitness software packages that runs on
pretty much any platform (including Mac and Linux).

Hopefully that information will save you a little time in your
comparison.


LurfysMa wrote:
> I started looking around for diet & fitness software and found quite a
> number of candidates. Checking them all out would be a bit of work so
> I thought I'd see if some of the folks on these ngs might like to
> contribute.
>
> Here's my proposal: I'll create a little database of the more common
> or popular fitness software offerings. I'll add fields for whatever
> features people feel are relevant and important, such as price,
> platform (Win, Mac, Palm, online), support, awards, units (English,
> metric), and other features. I'll test as many of them as I can.
> Anyone else who wants to test a product can submit reviews and I'll
> try to summarize the information in the database.
>
> I'll post the results periodically.
>
> To get us started, here are the products I was able to find in a
> couple of hours of searching. I limited myself to software costing
> less than $100.
>
>
>
> Fitday
> http://www.fitday.com/
>
> Fitess Assistant
> http://www.x3msoftware.com/
>
> Open Fitness
> http://www.workoutware.com/
>
> Diet Power
> http://www.dietpower.com/
>
> Health Engage Diet + Fitness
> http://www.healthengage.com/healthen...etfitness.html
>
> Natural Physiques
> http://www.naturalphysiques.com/nutrition/
>
> WeightMania Pro
> http://www.weightmania.com/index.html
>
> BeNutriFit
> http://www.benutrifit.com/default.asp
>
> Performance Diet Pro
> http://www.health-runr.com/products/products.htm
>
> BodyFitdb
> http://www.bodyfitdb.com/
>
> Diet Pro
> http://www.dietpro.net/default.htm
>
> Fit Body Pro
>
> Weight by Date
> http://www.weightbydate.com/index.html
>
> Desktop Diet
>
> CalorieKing Nutrition & Exercise Manager
> http://www.calorieking.com/software/ckdietdiarywin.php
>
>
>
> --

On 13 Oct 2006 06:28:27 -0700, "Matt" <matt@workoutware.com> wrote:

>Hey there,
>
>I'm the author of Open Fitness (http://www.workoutware.com), so I'll
>offer some comments on differences I've noticed between Open Fitness
>and the other software that's out there.
>
>One of the things you'll find that Open Fitness offers, which is
>different from the others, is a way to easily share any of your fitness
>info (workouts, progress charts, etc) through email, or through an
>integrated message board, called the Open Fitness Network
>(http://www.openfitness.net). For instance, you could upload your
>favorite workout, and all Open Fitness users would have access to it.
>They could download it right into their copy of Open Fitness.
>
>Open Fitness is more centered around progress and staying motivated
>than other software packages. In addition to making it easy to share
>progress, it's also easy to see your progress. Open Fitness
>automatically looks at your history and offers progress messages every
>time you use it (like 'your bodyweight decreased by X this month',
>etc). It also provides comprehensive progress reports, that can be
>viewed with just one click.
>
>Another difference is that it can sync with Palm-based devices. I plan
>my workouts on the desktop (once a month or so), then they're all
>automatically copied to my Treo phone. at the gym, I can enter my
>weight/reps into the phone, then they're automatically copied back to
>the desktop software.
>
>Open Fitness is one of the few fitness software packages that runs on
>pretty much any platform (including Mac and Linux).
>
>Hopefully that information will save you a little time in your
>comparison.

Thanks for the comments. In my opinion, having the developers
contribute to relevant discussion groups is a HUGE plus for any
package.

I will definitely take a look at your program.

I take it Open Fitness is being actively developed, right? What is the
release history for the past couple ot years?

Do you encourage user feedback and does that feedback influence the
product?

--

Yes, Open Fitness is still actively being developed. Typically, a new
release comes out late in the fall. Last year, there was a major
release some time in October. The software was first released in 1998,
under a different name, and Open Fitness 1.x is basically release 7.x
of that software. So, it has averaged just under 1 major release per
year. In my opinion, last year's release was the biggest effort and the
biggest leap forward since the software first came out 8 years ago.

Open Fitness has had much more time to evolve than many competitors
(prototypes of it were being developed as far back as 1995). When the
version 1.0 came out in '98, I only remember there being 2 serious
competitors.

Each release, user feedback has had a huge impact on the software. Many
of the best ideas have come from the folks who use it every day.


LurfysMa wrote:
> On 13 Oct 2006 06:28:27 -0700, "Matt" <matt@workoutware.com> wrote:
>
> >Hey there,
> >
> >I'm the author of Open Fitness (http://www.workoutware.com), so I'll
> >offer some comments on differences I've noticed between Open Fitness
> >and the other software that's out there.
> >
> >One of the things you'll find that Open Fitness offers, which is
> >different from the others, is a way to easily share any of your fitness
> >info (workouts, progress charts, etc) through email, or through an
> >integrated message board, called the Open Fitness Network
> >(http://www.openfitness.net). For instance, you could upload your
> >favorite workout, and all Open Fitness users would have access to it.
> >They could download it right into their copy of Open Fitness.
> >
> >Open Fitness is more centered around progress and staying motivated
> >than other software packages. In addition to making it easy to share
> >progress, it's also easy to see your progress. Open Fitness
> >automatically looks at your history and offers progress messages every
> >time you use it (like 'your bodyweight decreased by X this month',
> >etc). It also provides comprehensive progress reports, that can be
> >viewed with just one click.
> >
> >Another difference is that it can sync with Palm-based devices. I plan
> >my workouts on the desktop (once a month or so), then they're all
> >automatically copied to my Treo phone. at the gym, I can enter my
> >weight/reps into the phone, then they're automatically copied back to
> >the desktop software.
> >
> >Open Fitness is one of the few fitness software packages that runs on
> >pretty much any platform (including Mac and Linux).
> >
> >Hopefully that information will save you a little time in your
> >comparison.
>
> Thanks for the comments. In my opinion, having the developers
> contribute to relevant discussion groups is a HUGE plus for any
> package.
>
> I will definitely take a look at your program.
>
> I take it Open Fitness is being actively developed, right? What is the
> release history for the past couple ot years?
>
> Do you encourage user feedback and does that feedback influence the
> product?
>
> --

Tim wrote:
:: No guy, you are the clueless one.
::
:: If you want to spend endless hours analyzing nonsense numbers that
:: are based on estimations of estimations then have a blast.

One need not do that. Only a clueless wonder would think it's ncessary.

::
:: Re-read my post, I **never** said that tracking your diet and
:: exercise was a bad idea, no way!! hell, I track my diet and exercise
:: all the time. What I don't do is to be silly and do stupid things
:: like comparing calories eaten vs calories burned, that just idiotic.
::
:: There is no doubt that a piece of software has the capacity to track
:: everything with a degree of extreme accuracy, the problem is that
:: this accuracy is based on the reliability of the numbers you put in.

Dude...this "degree of extreme accuracy" is in your mind. Just measure
portions and account for foods you eat. Just because software gives an
estimate of daily calories burned doesn't make the software unless. It
provides a guide and if used correctly it can lead to successful weight
loss.

::
:: How the hell do you think they calculate nutrition facts for foods?
:: Do you think companies that sell food hire a team of scientist to
:: analyze everything with absolute accuracy? The dam nutrition's facts
:: for foods are estimations of estimations, and these estimations are
:: based on a limited sample of foods and these nutrition facts will
:: vary even more depending on how you cook the food etc etc. These
:: numbers provide you with just a basic idea of what you are putting
:: in your mouth. Read the USDA documentation. The exact same thing
:: applies when you calculate the energy expended during exercise.

That was a complete waste of your time to type.

::
:: The best thing to do is quite simple, set a target intake calorie
:: amount and after a week see how much weight you gain or lost and
:: adjust the calorie intake appropriately.

Not, that's not the best thing. Best is to start at about 10x your body
weight in calories without any special exercise session. Only few people
will gain anything there. Then look at your loss after about 2 weeks (1 may
not be a enough for some). From that information you can back out your
burn-rate. If you're happy with that rate of loss, fine. If it's too much,
eat a bit more. If not, either eat a bit less or add exercise.

::
:: And yes, I have a good friend that is a dietician. 95% of the people
:: that go with here track their diet by using portions (they don't
:: even count calories). The simple fact of watching what their eat
:: makes all the difference, basing your calorie intake on a software
:: that claims to understand your metabolism or by comparing calories
:: eaten vs calories burned is simple RETARDED.

Nonsense. You just can't do it. I've done it successfully and so have
others. Software only provides an estimate and doesn't claim to be exact
for everyone. It has little if any bearing on anything. Same thing for
calories burned from exercise. It doesn't matter if the numbers are exact.
They aren't. But the give a more or less consistent estimate that, when
used by an intelligent person, can used to achieve weight loss.

All the software that I have seen that offer these features sell them as
amazing features. Ours software is so smart it will adjust your diet based
on your metabolism they say. With our software, you can compare calories
eaten vs calories burned so that you can adjust your diet and achieve
success they say.



You don't think this ass holes are irresponsible bastards? You said it
yourself; an intelligent person can use this data intelligently and benefit
from it. Unfortunately 99% of the people using diet software are clueless
about all of the realities regarding this information.



The bottom line is that you have to ** listen to what your body tells you**
and not what a piece of crap software is telling you. Gazillions of people
remain trimed and in shape throughout their lives because they listen to
their bodies not a stupid chart. That should be the goal of the software.

Companies that capitalize on the ignorance of people regarding nutrition
have no ethics these companies should make it very obvious to people that
these numbers are just for entertainment purposes. But they don't, because
if they do then the product is less appealing and that's no good because it's
all about the money.

And please, I have yet to meet a dietician that tells you to track your diet
by calories, every single dietician will tells you to watch the quality of
food and track portions. If you say no to that you either have never spoken
to a dietician or are flat out lying with your statement.


Have a good day.

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:03:36 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Dude...this "degree of extreme accuracy" is in your mind. Just measure
>portions and account for foods you eat.

Rog, you're a convert......to reality.

Is this where you bow to the Chung-Mu throne of the 2 pound diet?

Mu wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:03:36 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
> <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Dude...this "degree of extreme accuracy" is in your mind. Just measure
> >portions and account for foods you eat.
>
> Rog, you're a convert......to reality.

.... which is the truth.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life ... " -- LORD Jesus Christ

Amen !

Laus Deo ! !

Marana tha ! ! !

> Is this where you bow to the Chung-Mu throne of the 2 pound diet?

Tsk, tsk... remember the 2PD-OMER Approach has never been a diet from
the outset despite the misnomer:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

The proof is that we can dovetail the 2PD-OMER Approach with any
diet... even with the much maligned low-carb diet.

May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water, dear friend
Mu whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...ad7fe68478acf?

Mu wrote:
:: On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:03:36 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
::
::: Dude...this "degree of extreme accuracy" is in your mind. Just
::: measure portions and account for foods you eat.
::
:: Rog, you're a convert......to reality.
::
:: Is this where you bow to the Chung-Mu throne of the 2 pound diet?

Absolutely.........NOT. Calorie counting works, if you do it.

Tim wrote:
:: All the software that I have seen that offer these features sell
:: them as amazing features. Ours software is so smart it will adjust
:: your diet based on your metabolism they say. With our software, you
:: can compare calories eaten vs calories burned so that you can adjust
:: your diet and achieve success they say.
::

Tisk, tisk, tisk....

::
::
:: You don't think this ass holes are irresponsible bastards? You said
:: it yourself; an intelligent person can use this data intelligently
:: and benefit from it. Unfortunately 99% of the people using diet
:: software are clueless about all of the realities regarding this
:: information.
::

So? That just means people are clueless. What else is new.

::
::
:: The bottom line is that you have to ** listen to what your body
:: tells you** and not what a piece of crap software is telling you.
:: Gazillions of people remain trimed and in shape throughout their
:: lives because they listen to their bodies not a stupid chart. That
:: should be the goal of the software.

Some people simply have talent that enables them to remain trim and in shape
more easily than others. Not everyone can be Mozart, you know.

::
:: Companies that capitalize on the ignorance of people regarding
:: nutrition have no ethics these companies should make it very obvious
:: to people that these numbers are just for entertainment purposes.

The numbers can be used as guides, not absolute "truths". If I learn that I
can maintain my weight on 2000 kcal/day my some measure, then what does it
matter if I'm really eating 2200? If I then decrease to 1500 kcal/day, then
I'll start losing weight. You can claim that doesn't work all you want,
but I've done it many times and so have others. I've also found that I can
eat 2000 kcals/day and do 500 kcals of exercise, and lose weight. Now, that
might not work out to be some exact equation that says calories out >
calories in, thus I get X amount of weight loss, but it works. The end
result is that I lose weight. And if I want to lose faster, just eat less,
exercise more, or a combintation of both. It works, if you do it. The
software simply provides a nice means of tracking and a database of foods to
draw from. That's the value of the software.

:: But they don't, because if they do then the product is less
:: appealing and that's no good because it's all about the money.
::

No, it's about providing value for money. You're simply a foob that hates
they fact that others provide value-added software.

:: And please, I have yet to meet a dietician that tells you to track
:: your diet by calories, every single dietician will tells you to
:: watch the quality of food and track portions. If you say no to that
:: you either have never spoken to a dietician or are flat out lying
:: with your statement.

I've dealt with 3 dieticians in my day. I don't give a damn what they say.
Their word isn't like the word of God or something. Most of them are
probably not smart enough to track calories anyhow. Oh, and dieticians get
paid too for their services, why don't you hate them too.

::
::
:: Have a good day.

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Mu wrote:

> Tsk, tsk... remember the 2PD-OMER Approach has never been a diet from
> the outset despite the misnomer:

I thought we had been over this. Since the sole components of the
2PD-OMER Diet are a reduction in food intake and possibly some prayer,
it is a diet in the english language, as spoken throughout the world.
To say it is not a diet is to say that the sky does not appear blue or
that the New England Journal of Medicine is not a Journal of Medicine
and medical research and is not published in New England.

> The proof is that we can dovetail the 2PD-OMER Approach with any
> diet... even with the much maligned low-carb diet.
Malign - To make evil, harmful, and often untrue statements about.
*source: The Free Online Dictionary

I concur with your self-assessment, maligner.

-Hollywood

> No, it's about providing value for money. You're simply a foob that hates
> the fact that others provide value-added software.

???Why would I care about what some software company does or offers??? They
can fill up the software with so much crap you need a whole DVD to
distribute the garbage. It's simply not humanly possible for someone to
care less about it than I do.



It's people like you that make companies like bowflex claim that their
thread mill burns as many calories as other thread mills in half the time
and have a clean conscience about it it. Then you have all the ignorant
people go out and buy it based on that statement simply to discover that
whoooooooops, they just told you what you wanted to hear but they left out
the "small" details.





> Oh, and dieticians get paid too for their services, why

>don't you hate them too.


There are honest dieticians as well as scum ones, the same apply for
software companies. I am just trying to help out people sort through the
scum, what's the point of paying 20 or 30 dollars for software when 70% of
its features are worthless??

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Mu wrote:
> :: On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:03:36 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
> :: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ::
> ::: Dude...this "degree of extreme accuracy" is in your mind. Just
> ::: measure portions and account for foods you eat.
> ::
> :: Rog, you're a convert......to reality.
> ::
> :: Is this where you bow to the Chung-Mu throne of the 2 pound diet?
>
> Absolutely.........NOT. Calorie counting works, if you do it.

If you do the calorie counting right, you end up weighing the food but
still never being certain about how much you are eating.

May GOD continue to mercifully keep your heart beating, dear neighbor
Roger whom I love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...ad7fe68478acf?

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Mu wrote:
::::: On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:03:36 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
::::: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
:::::
:::::: Dude...this "degree of extreme accuracy" is in your mind. Just
:::::: measure portions and account for foods you eat.
:::::
::::: Rog, you're a convert......to reality.
:::::
::::: Is this where you bow to the Chung-Mu throne of the 2 pound diet?
:::
::: Absolutely.........NOT. Calorie counting works, if you do it.
::
:: If you do the calorie counting right, you end up weighing the food
:: but still never being certain about how much you are eating.

Obviously, then, being certain how much you are eating is not important.

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::: Mu wrote:
> ::::: On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:03:36 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
> ::::: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
> :::::
> :::::: Dude...this "degree of extreme accuracy" is in your mind. Just
> :::::: measure portions and account for foods you eat.
> :::::
> ::::: Rog, you're a convert......to reality.
> :::::
> ::::: Is this where you bow to the Chung-Mu throne of the 2 pound diet?
> :::
> ::: Absolutely.........NOT. Calorie counting works, if you do it.
> ::
> :: If you do the calorie counting right, you end up weighing the food
> :: but still never being certain about how much you are eating.
>
> Obviously, then, being certain how much you are eating is not important.

Actually, the widespread failure of calorie counting to help people
achieve lasting (> 5yrs) significant ( > 20%) weight loss indicates
that not being certain about how much one is eating is a serious
drawback.

Enter the 2PD-OMER Approach...

http://HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Roger whom I
love unconditionally.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...ad7fe68478acf?

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:22:49 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Mu wrote:
>:: On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:03:36 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
>:: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>::
>::: Dude...this "degree of extreme accuracy" is in your mind. Just
>::: measure portions and account for foods you eat.
>::
>:: Rog, you're a convert......to reality.
>::
>:: Is this where you bow to the Chung-Mu throne of the 2 pound diet?
>
>Absolutely.........NOT. Calorie counting works, if you do it.

Still preaching that nonsense, are you, Holy Cow, we shot the cal
counting mythology dead a couple of years ago.

I thought.

Pass me your bomb calorimeter and...what, you don't have one? Then how
do you know the cals you ate? A book told you? lol

Which books, I got books that disagree to the tune of as much as 25%
on the portion sizes. How much chicken skin was there? How much fat
under the skin? How much wasn't cooked off?

This so simple to understand but if you take cal counting away, what
have you got left?

One more time. If you count cals, and you eat 2,000 cals a day and
that is your "no weight gain" cal baseline, if you are off just 10%
each day (which it is more likely that you are off more than that),
what's 200 x 30? How much weight did you just gain?

<eom>

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:58:12 -0700, LurfysMa <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>To get ths started, what are the features that a good software
>application should include?

Freeware, anything else is spending money to spend money.

A spreadsheet with one column. Food weight. I tossed mine away after 8
weeks or so.

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:37:51 GMT, "Tim" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>> No, it's about providing value for money. You're simply a foob that hates
>> the fact that others provide value-added software.
>
>???Why would I care about what some software company does or offers??? They
>can fill up the software with so much crap you need a whole DVD to
>distribute the garbage. It's simply not humanly possible for someone to
>care less about it than I do.

For someone who cares so little about it, you sure go on and on and on
about it. Hmmm...

--