Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked

Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
best source of protein?

Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked

http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm

In article <464ba5b5$0$5018$1c4686b2@selenium.club.cc.cmu.edu >,
farmer@barnyard.com wrote:

> Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> best source of protein?
>
> Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
>
> http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm

Soy makes me fart.
Whey doesn't.

;-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On Thu, 17 May 2007, farmer@barnyard.com wrote:

> Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked

SOY! SOY! SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!

tom

--
Miscellaneous Terrorists: Ducks | Bird Flu | Avian flu | Jimbo Wales |
Backstreet Boys | The Al Queda Network | Tesco -- Uncyclopedia

In article <464ba5b5$0$5018$1c4686b2@selenium.club.cc.cmu.edu >,
farmer@barnyard.com wrote:

> Is protein all the same?

No. Soy is inferior to whey in almsot every respect.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

> Is protein all the same?

"No. Soy is inferior to whey in almsot every respect."

Then you didn't read the article, the proper comparison is not protein
to protein but isolate to isolate of the protein products. They are
different but "better" depends on what measure of what one uses for what
goal. He goes into considerable detail on the topic.

In article <464c607c$0$5021$1c4686b2@selenium.club.cc.cmu.edu >,
farmer@barnyard.com wrote:

> > Is protein all the same?
>
> "No. Soy is inferior to whey in almsot every respect."
>
> Then you didn't read the article,

I dont have to. I know more about the topic than the author ever will and
have written and published more on the topic than the author ever will.

> the proper comparison is not protein
> to protein but isolate to isolate of the protein products.

That makes no sense and exposes the ignorance of the person who said it (you?).

> They are
> different but "better" depends on what measure of what one uses for what
> goal.

Pretty much any goal you can name, whey is superior, unless your goal is
to get phyto estrogens into your diet, which is fine, if that's what you
want. I am not an anti soy zealot but facts is facts.

> He goes into considerable detail on the topic.

Most of which are all wrong ad it's clear the author sells soy.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
> Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> best source of protein?
>
> Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
>
> http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm

Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination. Eat proteins from
real whole foods, not processed and refined (denatured) proteins.

And soy is not real food. It has only been traditionally eaten as a
fermented condiment. That is fermented and in small amounts for
flavoring. Without fermentation you will be exposed to excessive
amounts of phyto-toxins and phyto-hormones. Unfermented soy is a low-
grade poison.

In article <1179416388.062477.192920@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups .com>,
Tunderbar <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
> > Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> > best source of protein?
> >
> > Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
> >
> > http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
>
> Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination. Eat proteins from
> real whole foods, not processed and refined (denatured) proteins.
>
> And soy is not real food. It has only been traditionally eaten as a
> fermented condiment. That is fermented and in small amounts for
> flavoring. Without fermentation you will be exposed to excessive
> amounts of phyto-toxins and phyto-hormones. Unfermented soy is a low-
> grade poison.

Ok, I'll agree with that one.

Same goes for unfermented dairy products (except for whey protein
isolates).

IMHO cottage cheese, yogurt and hard cheeses are better for you than
even raw milk.

Sorry, no sites to prove that. Just comes from many years of experience
for what agrees with most people's digestive systems.

Symbiotic bacteria are a good thing. :-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote

> Symbiotic bacteria are a good thing. :-)

I tried, several times over the years, to take "probiotic" capsules and
all they ever did was give me an upset stomach, but lately I've been
getting some live, ethnic-type yogurt almost every day and I like it. I
couldn't quantify what it's done for me except that I feel better - a
bit more energy, a bit less sleepy in the evenings, and I think a bit
less hungry overall as well.

This is the stuff I have mostly:

http://www.amazon.com/Fage-Total-Pla.../dp/B00032K91A

although we just buy it in the store, not through amazon.com - either
that or some Greek yogurt from Trader Joe's. The former tastes great
with maple syrup added, and in the latter honey and walnuts, which is
the way we had it when we were in Greece.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

In article <5b3gjcF2r33vgU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> "Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > Symbiotic bacteria are a good thing. :-)
>
> I tried, several times over the years, to take "probiotic" capsules and
> all they ever did was give me an upset stomach, but lately I've been
> getting some live, ethnic-type yogurt almost every day and I like it. I
> couldn't quantify what it's done for me except that I feel better - a
> bit more energy, a bit less sleepy in the evenings, and I think a bit
> less hungry overall as well.

The fascinating thing about humans is how everybody's body chemistry
varies. I'm glad you found something that worked for you.

Me?

I just take PB-8 and skip the Lactose sugars in most dairy products.
Granted, I adore cheese, but I use it in limited quantities:

http://www.sweetmedicineessentials.com/product/216553

I can get it at more than one local health food store and I can't help
but think that a balanced mix of probiotic critters is better than just
Lactobacillus acidophilus.

>
> This is the stuff I have mostly:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Fage-Total-Pla.../dp/B00032K91A

Looks good, but I've never seen it here.

>
> although we just buy it in the store, not through amazon.com - either
> that or some Greek yogurt from Trader Joe's. The former tastes great
> with maple syrup added, and in the latter honey and walnuts, which is
> the way we had it when we were in Greece.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Tunderbar <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
>> Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
>> best source of protein?
>>
>> Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
>>
>> http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
>
>Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination. Eat proteins from
>real whole foods, not processed and refined (denatured) proteins.
>
>And soy is not real food. It has only been traditionally eaten as a
>fermented condiment. That is fermented and in small amounts for
>flavoring. Without fermentation you will be exposed to excessive
>amounts of phyto-toxins and phyto-hormones. Unfermented soy is a low-
>grade poison.

I hate it when this stuff gets cross-posted from
sci.med.natural-food-dingbats.

"Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
newsmp_omelet-C46EFD.12201017052007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <5b3gjcF2r33vgU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" <omp_omelet@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>> > Symbiotic bacteria are a good thing. :-)
>>
>> I tried, several times over the years, to take "probiotic" capsules
>> and
>> all they ever did was give me an upset stomach, but lately I've been
>> getting some live, ethnic-type yogurt almost every day and I like it.
>> I
>> couldn't quantify what it's done for me except that I feel better - a
>> bit more energy, a bit less sleepy in the evenings, and I think a bit
>> less hungry overall as well.
>
> The fascinating thing about humans is how everybody's body chemistry
> varies. I'm glad you found something that worked for you.
>
> Me?
>
> I just take PB-8 and skip the Lactose sugars in most dairy products.

I may well be addicated to dairy products. I'm fond of eating fresh
mozarella cheese all by itself - who needs the bread and tomatoe sauce,
anyway?

> Granted, I adore cheese, but I use it in limited quantities:
>
> http://www.sweetmedicineessentials.com/product/216553
>
> I can get it at more than one local health food store and I can't help
> but think that a balanced mix of probiotic critters is better than
> just
> Lactobacillus acidophilus.

-snip-

I guess the question is whether a mix from a pill is better than
whatever's in some real food. My "solution" is to keep trying different
brands of yogurts. I think, these days, at least some manufacturers
attempt to get a few different good bugs running around in their
yogurts. Kefir seems to get good press - will have to try some of that
sometime soon.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

On May 17, 12:28 pm, JMW <jmwilli...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
> Tunderbar <tdcom...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
> >> Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> >> best source of protein?
>
> >> Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
>
> >>http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
>
> >Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination. Eat proteins from
> >real whole foods, not processed and refined (denatured) proteins.
>
> >And soy is not real food. It has only been traditionally eaten as a
> >fermented condiment. That is fermented and in small amounts for
> >flavoring. Without fermentation you will be exposed to excessive
> >amounts of phyto-toxins and phyto-hormones. Unfermented soy is a low-
> >grade poison.
>
> I hate it when this stuff gets cross-posted from
> sci.med.natural-food-dingbats.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

How about from common-sense.nutrition ?

"JMW" <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
news:a24p43d52mhlibl6t1v6q8jsmtufid06al@4ax.com...
> Tunderbar <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
>>> Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is
>>> the
>>> best source of protein?
>>>
>>> Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
>>>
>>> http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
>>
>>Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination. Eat proteins from
>>real whole foods, not processed and refined (denatured) proteins.
>>
>>And soy is not real food. It has only been traditionally eaten as a
>>fermented condiment. That is fermented and in small amounts for
>>flavoring. Without fermentation you will be exposed to excessive
>>amounts of phyto-toxins and phyto-hormones. Unfermented soy is a low-
>>grade poison.
>
> I hate it when this stuff gets cross-posted from
> sci.med.natural-food-dingbats.

I hadn't even noticed - I thought it was just us mfw'ers. In the
interest of mfw-relevant content, my workout today. Brief background -
focus of this cycle and the few before and after is better performance
at the 32 kg kettlebell snatch. M/W/F, that's what I do, but since
today is Thursday, it was "whatever I'm in the mood for" day. Here you
go:

32 kg: one-arm (of course) military press, 5 sets of 2 each side

32 kg: windmill, 1 set of 3 each side

Superset: bw + 24 kg: pullup to touch throat, 3 reps - with - bw + 16
kg: pistol, 3 each side

Superset: same as above but 5 reps instead of 3.

And there you have it. Equipment: one each 16, 24, and 32 kg
kettlebells. Pullup bar was an Oly bar bungeed to the top of my power
rack - thicker so a bit better grip training. Age: 52 years, bodyweight
this morning: 69.5 kg.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

In article <1179416388.062477.192920@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups .com>,
Tunderbar <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
> > Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> > best source of protein?
> >
> > Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
> >
> > http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
>
> Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination.

There is no 'ideal' protein

>Eat proteins from
> real whole foods, not processed and refined (denatured) proteins.

Whey is not denatured if produced correctly and offers some benefits that
can't be had with other proteins. Do I need to keep repeating that over
and over?

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Thu, 17 May 2007, farmer@barnyard.com wrote:
>
>> Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
>
> SOY! SOY! SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!
>
> tom
>
Soy slows down your thyroid.

http://thyroid.about.com/b/a/073380.htm

soy makes you gay
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=53327

soy also contains phytoestrogens and high levels of phytic acid.
Phytic acid will prevent minerals from being absorbed. Please don't
eat soy. Unless it is fermented. And even then only in small amounts.

On May 17, 3:43 pm, "toot...@sbcglobal.net" <toot...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> Tom Anderson wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 May 2007, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
>
> >> Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
>
> > SOY! SOY! SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!
>
> > tom
>
> Soy slows down your thyroid.
>
> http://thyroid.about.com/b/a/073380.htm
>
> soy makes you gayhttp://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327

Will Brink wrote:
> In article <1179416388.062477.192920@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups .com>,
> Tunderbar <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
>>> Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
>>> best source of protein?
>>>
>>> Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
>>>
>>> http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
>> Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination.
> http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=53327
> There is no 'ideal' protein
>
>> Eat proteins from
>> real whole foods, not processed and refined (denatured) proteins.
>
> Whey is not denatured if produced correctly and offers some benefits that
> can't be had with other proteins. Do I need to keep repeating that over
> and over?
>
Soy makes people gay

http://www.the7thfire.com/health_and...n/manhood.html
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=53327

On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
> Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> best source of protein?

It's a complicated issue because there are several essential amino
acids (EAA) which occur in different ratios in protein sources.

It may pay to have a mixture of proteins to get a better EAA balance.

See http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/MEETING/00...E/M2835E00.HTM

--
Ron

In article <willbrink-1705071510370001@192.168.2.156>,
willbrink@comcast.net (Will Brink) wrote:

> In article <1179416388.062477.192920@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups .com>,
> Tunderbar <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
> > > Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> > > best source of protein?
> > >
> > > Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
> > >
> > > http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
> >
> > Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination.
>
> There is no 'ideal' protein


I dunno. I consider a good, thick "Q'ed" t-bone of local angus beef darn
near ideal.

:^)

--
Keith

willbrink@comcast.net (Will Brink) writes:

> In article <1179416388.062477.192920@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups .com>,
> Tunderbar <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
>> > Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
>> > best source of protein?
>> >
>> > Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
>> >
>> > http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
>>
>> Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination.
>
> There is no 'ideal' protein
>
>>Eat proteins from
>> real whole foods, not processed and refined (denatured) proteins.
>
> Whey is not denatured if produced correctly and offers some benefits
> that can't be had with other proteins. Do I need to keep repeating
> that over and over?

Apparently you do. Just so you know I certainly appreciate it. I
simply read the dingbat post and respond to it in my head, and then
read your response to see how well I did.

It's like a self-grading protein quiz.

Jason

In article <87zm43m88y.fsf@workhorse.earlhome>, Jason Earl
<jearl@xmission.com> wrote:

> willbrink@comcast.net (Will Brink) writes:
>
> > In article <1179416388.062477.192920@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups .com>,
> > Tunderbar <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
> >> > Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> >> > best source of protein?
> >> >
> >> > Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
> >> >
> >> > http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
> >>
> >> Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination.
> >
> > There is no 'ideal' protein
> >
> >>Eat proteins from
> >> real whole foods, not processed and refined (denatured) proteins.
> >
> > Whey is not denatured if produced correctly and offers some benefits
> > that can't be had with other proteins. Do I need to keep repeating
> > that over and over?
>
> Apparently you do. Just so you know I certainly appreciate it. I
> simply read the dingbat post and respond to it in my head, and then
> read your response to see how well I did.
>
> It's like a self-grading protein quiz.

Just as long as the voices in your head don't give you the wrong answers,
it's all good.

>
> Jason

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

In article <5b3mpgF2rds08U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> >
> > I just take PB-8 and skip the Lactose sugars in most dairy products.
>
> I may well be addicated to dairy products. I'm fond of eating fresh
> mozarella cheese all by itself - who needs the bread and tomatoe sauce,
> anyway?

Cheese heads string cheese rulz. ;-)
Cheese is one thing I really like and try to limit my intake.
It's especially good melted over steamed veggies.

>
> > Granted, I adore cheese, but I use it in limited quantities:
> >
> > http://www.sweetmedicineessentials.com/product/216553
> >
> > I can get it at more than one local health food store and I can't help
> > but think that a balanced mix of probiotic critters is better than
> > just
> > Lactobacillus acidophilus.
>
> -snip-
>
> I guess the question is whether a mix from a pill is better than
> whatever's in some real food. My "solution" is to keep trying different
> brands of yogurts. I think, these days, at least some manufacturers
> attempt to get a few different good bugs running around in their
> yogurts. Kefir seems to get good press - will have to try some of that
> sometime soon.
>
> -S-

Seems that different manufacturers do use different strains so by
switching around, you are getting a more balanced flora, or so I'd think?
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article <1179431247.202445.263070@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups .com>,
cleanskin@itspuresoap.com wrote:

> soy also contains phytoestrogens and high levels of phytic acid.
> Phytic acid will prevent minerals from being absorbed. Please don't
> eat soy. Unless it is fermented. And even then only in small amounts.

What?

No marinated tofu in my stir fry's or egg drop soups?

Perish the thought. ;-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article <1179434091.186089.264310@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups .com>,
Ron Peterson <ron@shell.core.com> wrote:

> On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
> > Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> > best source of protein?
>
> It's a complicated issue because there are several essential amino
> acids (EAA) which occur in different ratios in protein sources.
>
> It may pay to have a mixture of proteins to get a better EAA balance.
>
> See http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/MEETING/00...E/M2835E00.HTM
>
> --
> Ron

Beef!

It's what's for dinner. ;-d

Hunka cow grilled:
http://tinypic.com/2qw3589.jpg

Hunka cow sliced:
http://tinypic.com/4g7csi0.jpg
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article
<khobman800-A5FCC9.14445317052007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Hobbes <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <willbrink-1705071510370001@192.168.2.156>,
> willbrink@comcast.net (Will Brink) wrote:
>
> > In article <1179416388.062477.192920@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups .com>,
> > Tunderbar <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On May 16, 7:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
> > > > Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> > > > best source of protein?
> > > >
> > > > Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
> > > >
> > > > http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm
> > >
> > > Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination.
> >
> > There is no 'ideal' protein
>
>
> I dunno. I consider a good, thick "Q'ed" t-bone of local angus beef darn
> near ideal.
>
> :^)

Seconded, but IMHO Rib-eye is a better cut. <G>

Rare.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

willbr...@comcast.net (Will Brink) wrote:
> Tunderbar <tdcom...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > far...@barnyard.com wrote:
>
> > > Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> > > best source of protein?
>
> > > Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
>
> > Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination.
>
> There is no 'ideal' protein

You missed the old advertising campaign
"Eggs - Nature's most nearly perfect food"

In article <1179512102.318190.202340@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups .com>, Doug
Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:

> willbr...@comcast.net (Will Brink) wrote:
> > Tunderbar <tdcom...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > far...@barnyard.com wrote:
> >
> > > > Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> > > > best source of protein?
> >
> > > > Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
> >
> > > Neither is ideal by any stretch of the imagination.
> >
> > There is no 'ideal' protein
>
> You missed the old advertising campaign
> "Eggs - Nature's most nearly perfect food"

I didn't miss it actually. Didn't miss the "pork, the new white meat"
campaign either, but that don't make it right :-)

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

Do not forget the fact that the soluble whey proteins are the
allergenic component in dairy products. It is also interesting that
cheese has a relatively low level of these allergenic proteins. With
the increasing use of the soluble whey proteins in food formulations I
think we can expect a very significant increase in food allergys.

Bob M

On May 17, 12:45 pm, far...@barnyard.com wrote:
> Is protein all the same? What does all the jargon mean? What is the
> best source of protein?
>
> Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
>
> http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm