Bleeding and Pregnancy

Hello:

I'm new to the group. I'm finally accepting the fact that I've begun
perimenopause. (That alone was a struggle for me.) I will be 49 in
September. I had my only child (naturally conceived) when I was 44.
I'd like to have another. I am using the Clear Blue Easy Fertility
Monitor. This month I'm in Day 14 of what appears to be a non-stop
period (not unusually heavy or painful). Prior months I've had the
the chicken liver clots. I didn't have them this time, but instead I
have a reddish-brown discharge which colors the toilet water when I
urinate (but does not flow onto a pad). I've undergone an endometrial
biopsy and have had urinary tests done which indicate the bladder is
OK.

Is it still possible to get pregnant even though I'm bleeding? I hope
this isn't a stupid question. I read that perimenopausal women are at
increased risk for pregnancy due to the irregularity of their cycles,
so I thought I'd ask.

Many thanks,

GabrielsMom

"GabrielsMom" <tecassist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:947f6658-4426-4599-bfe4-1881339dd563@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Hello:
>
> I'm new to the group. I'm finally accepting the fact that I've begun
> perimenopause. (That alone was a struggle for me.) I will be 49 in
> September. I had my only child (naturally conceived) when I was 44.
> I'd like to have another. I am using the Clear Blue Easy Fertility
> Monitor. This month I'm in Day 14 of what appears to be a non-stop
> period (not unusually heavy or painful). Prior months I've had the
> the chicken liver clots. I didn't have them this time, but instead I
> have a reddish-brown discharge which colors the toilet water when I
> urinate (but does not flow onto a pad). I've undergone an endometrial
> biopsy and have had urinary tests done which indicate the bladder is
> OK.
>
> Is it still possible to get pregnant even though I'm bleeding? I hope
> this isn't a stupid question. I read that perimenopausal women are at
> increased risk for pregnancy due to the irregularity of their cycles,
> so I thought I'd ask.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> GabrielsMom

I can't answer re: if one could be pregnant even if relatively minor (as
opposed to the heavy, clotty stuff) period-like bleeding going on. But...
in general one is less apt to become pregnant in peri than before. Although
I think I see what you're getting at - can't count on any sort of
regularity, so when to know when ovulation occurs - or even if it does - in
any given month? IMO, all of peri is basically a crap shoot as to what's
about to happen. Or not happen.

That reddish-brown gunk... I had it at the beginning & end of my periods in
peri. But in my case I found it on tampons or pantiliners, not in the
toilet water. I'm also wondering... if the endometrial biopsy was recent -
could the bleeding maybe be from that, at least partially? (I had minor
bleeding for about a week after that procedure.)

Cathy

"GabrielsMom" <tecassist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:947f6658-4426-4599-bfe4-1881339dd563@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Hello:
>
> I'm new to the group. I'm finally accepting the fact that I've begun
> perimenopause. (That alone was a struggle for me.) I will be 49 in
> September. I had my only child (naturally conceived) when I was 44.
> I'd like to have another. I am using the Clear Blue Easy Fertility
> Monitor. This month I'm in Day 14 of what appears to be a non-stop
> period (not unusually heavy or painful). Prior months I've had the
> the chicken liver clots. I didn't have them this time, but instead I
> have a reddish-brown discharge which colors the toilet water when I
> urinate (but does not flow onto a pad). I've undergone an endometrial
> biopsy and have had urinary tests done which indicate the bladder is
> OK.
>
> Is it still possible to get pregnant even though I'm bleeding?
-------------
Some years ago we did have a poster here who became pregnant, naturally but
accidentally, at age 50. She had a miscarriage (again, naturally). She
said at the time (I paraphrase) that the ability to *get* pregnant is one
thing, the ability to *stay* pregnant is another.

So the answer to your question is that it is *possible*, but the odds are of
course not in your favor.

I must say, I had a baby a month before my 40th birthday. Now she is 20 and
I am 60. You're looking at parenting a teenager when you're close to
retirement age. It won't be easy!

Good luck,
Eva

>
> I must say, I had a baby a month before my 40th birthday. Now she is 20
> and I am 60. You're looking at parenting a teenager when you're close to
> retirement age. It won't be easy!

she could adopt a 5 year-old and give Gabriel a same-age sib. that would be
very cool.
>
>

Thank you, Cathy -

I had the weird reddish-brown bleeding before the biopsy; in fact it
was one of the reasons I went in for a thorough check-up.

GabrielsMom

Thank you, Eva:

I think I better understand why one can't easily stay pregnant - the
hormones are out of whack and one minute the uterine lining is getting
nice and thick then there is the 'get rid of it!' signal. I'm just
hoping that if I'm successful in getting pregnant, my system will
prepare for a baby instead of a miscarriage.

You're sooo right about the age thing! I thought of that when I found
out I was pregnant. I was 17 weeks along when I learned the news
(never had regular periods so the skipped periods weren't a clue). I
had never planned to have children. The reason I'd like to have one
now is more for a sib for my son than anything else. I'm also
thinking of the age difference between us. We don't have much in
terms of family and I don't want to see him alone. However, I have
faith things will work out as they should (which might not be
according to my wishes!).

Today I feel very crampy - my lower back is killing me and my usual 2
Aleve/2 Excedrin aren't helping.

GabrielsMom

Thanks, Pumpkin:

I've started looking into adoption. I know someone who waited 2 years
to finally adopt a sib for her first child (also adopted). I hadn't
planned on being a parent to begin with, and back then I thought that
if my biological clock runs out adoption is an option.

GabrielsMom

Hi there,

Have you had an ultrasound to see if there were fibroids? That can also be
a cause for the chicken liver clots and other bleeding you are having.

Been there,

Stacey

"GabrielsMom" <tecassist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1f1825a1-8159-4d61-8d2f-82b57f6a032c@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> Thank you, Cathy -
>
> I had the weird reddish-brown bleeding before the biopsy; in fact it
> was one of the reasons I went in for a thorough check-up.
>
> GabrielsMom

"GabrielsMom" <tecassist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1f1825a1-8159-4d61-8d2f-82b57f6a032c@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> Thank you, Cathy -
>
> I had the weird reddish-brown bleeding before the biopsy; in fact it
> was one of the reasons I went in for a thorough check-up.
>
> GabrielsMom

From what I've read here, a bunch of us have had the reddish-brown stuff.
Personally, I called it "gunk". ;-)

Cathy

"GabrielsMom" <tecassist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8c2c512d-dbba-433c-bb73-e95f112a0aba@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks, Pumpkin:
>
> I've started looking into adoption. I know someone who waited 2 years
> to finally adopt a sib for her first child (also adopted). I hadn't
> planned on being a parent to begin with, and back then I thought that
> if my biological clock runs out adoption is an option.

think not only of your son but all the other sons and daughters and cousins
on the planet.....and of....a child without parents.....

just my .02......

it's dicey to have a child for the sake of the existing child....many of us
know siblings who, er, despise each other...there are no
guarantees....adoption, it seems to me, is never anything but....appropriate
and moral and transforming and...oh hell, I don't know. this is OT again. I
think the "biological clock" runs out around age 42, in practical terms.
none of is grows younger, and old eggs are old eggs, with more exposure to
potentially deleterious things.

good for you, adoption ahead of surrogacy or....other stuff. thanks.

>
> GabrielsMom

Cathy F. <clfrclfr@adelphiadotdashdot.net> wrote:

> "GabrielsMom" <tecassist@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1f1825a1-8159-4d61-8d2f-82b57f6a032c@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> > Thank you, Cathy -
> >
> > I had the weird reddish-brown bleeding before the biopsy; in fact it
> > was one of the reasons I went in for a thorough check-up.
> >
> > GabrielsMom
>
> From what I've read here, a bunch of us have had the reddish-brown stuff.
> Personally, I called it "gunk". ;-)

Someone here (Furry?) referred to them as brown flowers, and I adopted
that term. I like the positive spin it has.

--
Keera in Norway * Think big and then ask for more.
http://home.online.no/~kafox/

Keera Ann Fox wrote:
> Cathy F. <clfrclfr@adelphiadotdashdot.net> wrote:

>> From what I've read here, a bunch of us have had the reddish-brown stuff.
>> Personally, I called it "gunk". ;-)
>
> Someone here (Furry?) referred to them as brown flowers, and I adopted
> that term. I like the positive spin it has.

That wasn't me - I think it was Chak - but that term that I was
all too familiar with has receded into the distant past :-D .

FurPaw



--
The plural of anecdote is not proof.

To reply, unleash the dog.

"Cathy F." <clfrclfr@adelphiadotdashdot.net> wrote in message
news:57-dnVoCGYY2ovDV4p2dnAA@giganews.com...
>
> "GabrielsMom" <tecassist@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:947f6658-4426-4599-bfe4-1881339dd563@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> Hello:
>>
>> I'm new to the group. I'm finally accepting the fact that I've begun
>> perimenopause. (That alone was a struggle for me.) I will be 49 in
>> September. I had my only child (naturally conceived) when I was 44.
>> I'd like to have another. I am using the Clear Blue Easy Fertility
>> Monitor. This month I'm in Day 14 of what appears to be a non-stop
>> period (not unusually heavy or painful). Prior months I've had the
>> the chicken liver clots. I didn't have them this time, but instead I
>> have a reddish-brown discharge which colors the toilet water when I
>> urinate (but does not flow onto a pad). I've undergone an endometrial
>> biopsy and have had urinary tests done which indicate the bladder is
>> OK.
>>
>> Is it still possible to get pregnant even though I'm bleeding? I hope
>> this isn't a stupid question. I read that perimenopausal women are at
>> increased risk for pregnancy due to the irregularity of their cycles,
>> so I thought I'd ask.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> GabrielsMom
>
> I can't answer re: if one could be pregnant even if relatively minor (as
> opposed to the heavy, clotty stuff) period-like bleeding going on. But...
> in general one is less apt to become pregnant in peri than before.
> Although I think I see what you're getting at - can't count on any sort of
> regularity, so when to know when ovulation occurs - or even if it does -
> in any given month? IMO, all of peri is basically a crap shoot as to
> what's about to happen. Or not happen.

I did not see the OP since I filter googlegropers, but this person needs to
see a gynecologist and/or reproductive endocrinologist and not rely on
Usenet diagnoses, if she selfishly insists on becoming pregnant
(gagcoughspewpukedontdoit).

I have to agree with the other posters that say she's too old. Menopause
happens for a reason. For god's sake, having a baby at 50 means you will be
chasing a toddler at 53, parenting a teenager at 65, and dying when your
child is in his/her 20's.

dejablues wrote the following on 7/9/08 11:49 PM:

> I did not see the OP since I filter googlegropers

As more and more ISPs drop the alt.* newsgroups -- an overblown reaction
to finding kiddie porn on less that 1% of them -- more and more people
will end up posting from Google Groups. I was able to find a free news
server, but not everyone may be able to do that.

Sheesh -- if wholesale blocks have to occur, wouldn't it make more sense
to only block groups that contain binaries?

On the rest of your post, I couldn't imagine trying to start over raising
a child. I had my first in my early 20s, and my third ten years later.
There was a huge difference in my energy level between my first and last
child, and, almost 20 years later, and even greater drop. I'm happy to be
at the stage of life where my children are grown. If I had to start over
with a grandchild, I would. But it isn't something I would choose to do
at this time.

My father was in his early 40s when I was born -- the first of three
children. I remember him as always being too tired to deal with me. In
his last years he was very bitter that he had spent his entire life
supporting others. His mother and siblings after his father died while
my father was in his teens, then his own. He died while still supporting
my brother and sister.

Karen

>
> I did not see the OP since I filter googlegropers, but this person needs to
> see a gynecologist and/or reproductive endocrinologist and not rely on
> Usenet diagnoses, if she selfishly *insists on becoming pregnant
> (gagcoughspewpukedontdoit).


I have seen doctors and specialists and I'm clear on what's going on
with my body as far as perimenopausal symptoms go. My question was
simply whether bleeding makes pregnancy impossible - I was not looking
for a "Usenet diagnosis".

Dejablues, you clearly have strong feelings having a child later in
life and I respect that. However, I believe the experience is
different for each person. Energy levels are different when you're
older but there is much more to childrearing than that. I had my son
when I was 44 - no small feat! He's four now and thriving, and so am
I - more than ever before. Sure, it's difficult to keep up with him,
but I wouldn't trade this journey for anything in the world.
Experiencing the wonder and joy of life throgh his eyes energizes me
and keeps my mind open and perspective wide. Keeping up with him has
forced me to make good, healthy lifestyle changes. I'm grateful for
this experience.

Yes, menopause occurs for a reason. When I'm in menopause I won't be
having this discussion. In the meantime, I'll keep asking questions
and considering my options.

GabrielsMom





>
> I have to agree with the other posters that say she's too old. *Menopause
> happens for a reason. For god's sake, having *a baby at 50 means you will be
> chasing a toddler at 53, parenting a teenager at 65, and dying when your
> child is in his/her 20's.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

>
> On the rest of your post, I couldn't imagine trying to start over raising
> a child. I had my first in my early 20s, and my third ten years later.
> There was a huge difference in my energy level between my first and last
> child, and, almost 20 years later, and even greater drop. I'm happy to be
> at the stage of life where my children are grown. If I had to start over
> with a grandchild, I would. But it isn't something I would choose to do
> at this time.
>
> My father was in his early 40s when I was born -- the first of three
> children. I remember him as always being too tired to deal with me. In
> his last years he was very bitter that he had spent his entire life
> supporting others. His mother and siblings after his father died while
> my father was in his teens, then his own. He died while still supporting
> my brother and sister.
>
> Karen

Karen, I'm sorry to hear what you went through! Thank you for
sharing your thoughts.

I'm not in a die-hard "gotta have a baby" frame of mind. I never have
been. In fact, I had never planned to be a parent in the first
place! Due to my own background, I honestly never saw myself as
someone who would be a mother. I had zero insights/skills/'instincts'
when the journey began. It was tough in the beginning, but in
retrospect well worth it. I feel confident in my mothering skills and
instincts now and couldn't imagine my life without our child.

I'm approaching the possibility of having another child from more of a
pragmatic point of view. I'd like my son to have a sibling and I'm
certainly conscious of the age/mortality factor of his parents.
Though people are living a lot longer now than they have in the past,
one never knows what issues will arise with age. My genetics are good
as far as long life is concerned, but that's not a guarantee either.

Having a supportive husband helps a lot in the Depleted Energy
department. We both take on the parenting responsibilities and work
together as a team most of the time.

GabrielsMom

my own "pragmatic" view differs markedly, as does my definition of morality,
but....such is life.

"GabrielsMom" <tecassist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7f4344ed-43ff-43de-98aa-2d70bce55bfb@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> >
>> On the rest of your post, I couldn't imagine trying to start over raising
>> a child. I had my first in my early 20s, and my third ten years later.
>> There was a huge difference in my energy level between my first and last
>> child, and, almost 20 years later, and even greater drop. I'm happy to be
>> at the stage of life where my children are grown. If I had to start over
>> with a grandchild, I would. But it isn't something I would choose to do
>> at this time.
>>
>> My father was in his early 40s when I was born -- the first of three
>> children. I remember him as always being too tired to deal with me. In
>> his last years he was very bitter that he had spent his entire life
>> supporting others. His mother and siblings after his father died while
>> my father was in his teens, then his own. He died while still supporting
>> my brother and sister.
>>
>> Karen
>
> Karen, I'm sorry to hear what you went through! Thank you for
> sharing your thoughts.
>
> I'm not in a die-hard "gotta have a baby" frame of mind. I never have
> been. In fact, I had never planned to be a parent in the first
> place! Due to my own background, I honestly never saw myself as
> someone who would be a mother. I had zero insights/skills/'instincts'
> when the journey began. It was tough in the beginning, but in
> retrospect well worth it. I feel confident in my mothering skills and
> instincts now and couldn't imagine my life without our child.
>
> I'm approaching the possibility of having another child from more of a
> pragmatic point of view. I'd like my son to have a sibling and I'm
> certainly conscious of the age/mortality factor of his parents.
> Though people are living a lot longer now than they have in the past,
> one never knows what issues will arise with age. My genetics are good
> as far as long life is concerned, but that's not a guarantee either.
>
> Having a supportive husband helps a lot in the Depleted Energy
> department. We both take on the parenting responsibilities and work
> together as a team most of the time.
>
> GabrielsMom

"fortunata" <pacifist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:iatdk.215597$SV4.77819@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> my own "pragmatic" view differs markedly, as does my definition of
> morality, but....such is life.
---------------
Yes (and I'm addressing this post also to dejablues who accused the OP of
"selfishness"), but above all it is *her* life and *her* decision. IMO a
baby is worse off having a mom that's too young than a mom that's too old.

One size never, ever, ever fits all.

Eva

"Eva" <EvaDStructionNO@NOverizon.net> wrote in message
newsbWdncTGfelIPevVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@giganews.com ...
> Yes (and I'm addressing this post also to dejablues who accused the OP of
> "selfishness"), but above all it is *her* life and *her* decision. IMO a
> baby is worse off having a mom that's too young than a mom that's too old.

It's not about *her* life and *her* decision. Her life and decisions need
take a backseat where a child is concerned. The OP didn't make mention of
the baby's father, what about him?

Physically, there are optimal times to have children. Too young is not good,
too old is also not good.

is any of us an island; every flutter of every butterfly's wing impacts....

yes indeed. it is always each individual's decision. and each person defines
"greater good" his/her own way also. and "pragmatic" too is subjective.

"Eva" <EvaDStructionNO@NOverizon.net> wrote in message
newsbWdncTGfelIPevVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@giganews.com ...
>
> "fortunata" <pacifist@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:iatdk.215597$SV4.77819@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> my own "pragmatic" view differs markedly, as does my definition of
>> morality, but....such is life.
> ---------------
> Yes (and I'm addressing this post also to dejablues who accused the OP of
> "selfishness"), but above all it is *her* life and *her* decision. IMO a
> baby is worse off having a mom that's too young than a mom that's too old.
>
> One size never, ever, ever fits all.
>
> Eva
>

"dejablues" <dejablues@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:g56miq$8nt$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Eva" <EvaDStructionNO@NOverizon.net> wrote in message
> newsbWdncTGfelIPevVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> Yes (and I'm addressing this post also to dejablues who accused the OP of
>> "selfishness"), but above all it is *her* life and *her* decision. IMO a
>> baby is worse off having a mom that's too young than a mom that's too
>> old.
>
> It's not about *her* life and *her* decision. Her life and decisions need
> take a backseat where a child is concerned.

it's strange, I always feel that my life and my decisions have to take into
account a large large number of people.....thousands, even millions. I'm
dependent on many people and processes and factors, and any child I created
would be as well. "a child" is every child, and every child is every
geriatric, by my lights.

it's not "my" air or "my" water or "my" dirt.

but as I said, I'm strange. and not immodestly so...just....fringed.

>
> Physically, there are optimal times to have children.



Too young is not good,
> too old is also not good.
>

Yes, menopause occurs for a reason. When I'm in menopause I won't be
having this discussion.

you might.

"dejablues" <dejablues@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:g56miq$8nt$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Eva" <EvaDStructionNO@NOverizon.net> wrote in message
> newsbWdncTGfelIPevVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> Yes (and I'm addressing this post also to dejablues who accused the OP of
>> "selfishness"), but above all it is *her* life and *her* decision. IMO a
>> baby is worse off having a mom that's too young than a mom that's too
>> old.
>
> It's not about *her* life and *her* decision. Her life and decisions need
> take a backseat where a child is concerned.
--------------
Do you seriously believe most women have children for purely altruistic
purposes?!
Eva

"pumpkin" <billowroad@att.net> wrote in message
news:3QBdk.217628$SV4.70230@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> it's strange, I always feel that my life and my decisions have to take
> into account a large large number of people.....thousands, even millions.
> I'm dependent on many people and processes and factors, and any child I
> created would be as well. "a child" is every child, and every child is
> every geriatric, by my lights.
>
----------------
If I thought that way I would never be able to make *any* decisions. Do you
think these women in Niger who keep having babies over and over and over
even though half of them die from starvation are worried about The Planet?
Even the ability to *make* decisions about having children is a luxury most
people in the world don't have. I'm not saying I would do what the OP wants
to do, I'm saying not to pontificate about her moral character so quickly.
There are a lot bigger crimes she could commit than having an ill-timed
baby.

Eva

"Eva" <EvaDStructionNO@NOverizon.net> wrote in message
news:eJidnQfxxeS_2erVnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>
> "dejablues" <dejablues@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:g56miq$8nt$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "Eva" <EvaDStructionNO@NOverizon.net> wrote in message
>> newsbWdncTGfelIPevVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>> Yes (and I'm addressing this post also to dejablues who accused the OP
>>> of "selfishness"), but above all it is *her* life and *her* decision.
>>> IMO a baby is worse off having a mom that's too young than a mom that's
>>> too old.
>>
>> It's not about *her* life and *her* decision. Her life and decisions need
>> take a backseat where a child is concerned.
> --------------
> Do you seriously believe most women have children for purely altruistic
> purposes?!
> Eva

No, I believe most women reproduce purely by chance, without giving it
serious thought, or for selfish reasons, ie: "what is this baby going to do
for ME".

Eva wrote:
> "pumpkin" <billowroad@att.net> wrote in message
> news:3QBdk.217628$SV4.70230@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> it's strange, I always feel that my life and my decisions have to take
>> into account a large large number of people.....thousands, even millions.
>> I'm dependent on many people and processes and factors, and any child I
>> created would be as well. "a child" is every child, and every child is
>> every geriatric, by my lights.
>>
> ----------------
> If I thought that way I would never be able to make *any* decisions. Do you
> think these women in Niger who keep having babies over and over and over
> even though half of them die from starvation are worried about The Planet?

In some societies, big families are valued, because that
increases the odds that a few children will survive to take care
of the parents in their old age.

> Even the ability to *make* decisions about having children is a luxury most
> people in the world don't have. I'm not saying I would do what the OP wants
> to do, I'm saying not to pontificate about her moral character so quickly.
> There are a lot bigger crimes she could commit than having an ill-timed
> baby.

Yeah... there are so many unknowns when it comes to having a
child, that while _in general_ I think it's wiser to have your
children before age 40, _specific_ cases can turn that upside down.

Some of the objections to having a child at an older age can
apply to young women, too. A young woman can become disabled,
leaving her unable to keep up with the child, or she may even die
while her child is a toddler. And many energetic young women
don't have a clue about how to raise a child, while an older
mother may make up in wisdom what she lacks in energy.

FurPaw

--
The plural of anecdote is not proof.

To reply, unleash the dog.

"Eva" <EvaDStructionNO@NOverizon.net> wrote in message
news:v82dnY99uNtY2-rVnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "pumpkin" <billowroad@att.net> wrote in message
> news:3QBdk.217628$SV4.70230@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>> it's strange, I always feel that my life and my decisions have to take
>> into account a large large number of people.....thousands, even millions.
>> I'm dependent on many people and processes and factors, and any child I
>> created would be as well. "a child" is every child, and every child is
>> every geriatric, by my lights.
>>
> ----------------
> If I thought that way I would never be able to make *any* decisions. Do
> you think these women in Niger who keep having babies over and over and
> over even though half of them die from starvation are worried about The
> Planet? Even the ability to *make* decisions about having children is a
> luxury most people in the world don't have. I'm not saying I would do
> what the OP wants to do, I'm saying not to pontificate about her moral
> character so quickly. There are a lot bigger crimes she could commit than
> having an ill-timed baby.
>
> Eva

Yep. This sort of thing is a very personal deal, & there are so many
variables - what's applicable to one person, or the majority of people, may
not be applicable to other individuals.

Cathy

>
>

>
> It's not about *her* life and *her* decision. Her life and decisions need
> take a backseat where a child is concerned.

Believe me, if this was all about *me* I wouldn't even consider having
a second child. As has been plainly stated here, it's not easy being
a mother of a child when one is older. It isn't easy at 48 with a 4
year old; it would be harder at 49 or 50 with an infant. However,
this is something I'm willing to do - for my son, with him first and
foremost in mind. As I posted before, I'm not of the "gotta have a
baby" mindset.

Age counts, but in my mind what counts more is that the child is
wanted, loved and cherished. My son is all of those, and any other
addition to the family would be also.

One plus to having a child later in life is that I've already 'been
there, done that'. I've reached the pinnacle in my career and have
been able to experience life prior to becoming a parent. My life has
changed radically since my son was born and it will continue to change
as he enters Kindergarten. It's now about him and I can honestly say
that is way OK with me.

>The OP didn't make mention of
> the baby's father, what about him?
>
Actually, I did make mention of the baby's father: "Having a
supportive husband helps a lot in the Depleted Energy
department. We both take on the parenting responsibilities and work
together as a team most of the time."

But here's a little more info - we've been married almost 27 years,
he's my age and he loves being a dad and would also like to have
another child. He's always been keen on the idea of having kids but
never pressed it because of me - I didn't see myself as the mother
type. He and I both knew the child would suffer if both parents
didn't really *want* to be parents. He wasn't sure what I would do
when I found out I was pregnant, but silently hoped I would be OK with
it. His hope became our reality.

GabrielsMom wrote:
>

>
> I'm not in a die-hard "gotta have a baby" frame of mind. I never have
> been. In fact, I had never planned to be a parent in the first
> place! Due to my own background, I honestly never saw myself as
> someone who would be a mother. I had zero insights/skills/'instincts'
> when the journey began. It was tough in the beginning, but in
> retrospect well worth it. I feel confident in my mothering skills and
> instincts now and couldn't imagine my life without our child.
>

My mother was almost 47 when my youngest sister was born (and I was
22) - she was something of a "surprise" - especially to the doctor who
insisted Mum was menopausal, not pregnant (and continued to do so
until Mum was about 5 months pregnant).

While this in itself wasn't a problem, my sister tells about how she
was bullied at school because her mother, waiting at the school gates,
looked more like her grandmother. Mum was in her late 50s when Sis
started going into puberty and the "teen angst" crisis was so extreme
MUM ran away from home! (Dad reckons he should be a mediator for the
UN after that episode <g>)

Then shortly after my sister's 16th birthday, Mum died. She was just
62. It rather screwed up sis's teen years. By 17 she'd "gotten
engaged" and moved in with her fiancé, by 21 she'd been dumped and
engaged and left with all the joint debts of the relationships three
times. She says she thinks she was looking for the stability of her
parents' and older sisters' marriages.


--
Jette Goldie
jette@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)

Jette wrote:
> GabrielsMom wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> I'm not in a die-hard "gotta have a baby" frame of mind. I never have
>> been. In fact, I had never planned to be a parent in the first
>> place! Due to my own background, I honestly never saw myself as
>> someone who would be a mother. I had zero insights/skills/'instincts'
>> when the journey began. It was tough in the beginning, but in
>> retrospect well worth it. I feel confident in my mothering skills and
>> instincts now and couldn't imagine my life without our child.
>>
>
> My mother was almost 47 when my youngest sister was born (and I was 22)
> - she was something of a "surprise" - especially to the doctor who
> insisted Mum was menopausal, not pregnant (and continued to do so until
> Mum was about 5 months pregnant).
>
> While this in itself wasn't a problem, my sister tells about how she was
> bullied at school because her mother, waiting at the school gates,
> looked more like her grandmother. Mum was in her late 50s when Sis
> started going into puberty and the "teen angst" crisis was so extreme
> MUM ran away from home! (Dad reckons he should be a mediator for the UN
> after that episode <g>)
>
> Then shortly after my sister's 16th birthday, Mum died. She was just
> 62. It rather screwed up sis's teen years. By 17 she'd "gotten
> engaged" and moved in with her fiancé, by 21 she'd been dumped and
> engaged and left with all the joint debts of the relationships three
> times. She says she thinks she was looking for the stability of her
> parents' and older sisters' marriages.
>

For every story of problems that resulted from an older mom,
there are a number of successes, too.

My mom was nearly 40 when I was born, and while she wanted
children, she had pretty much resigned herself to the idea that
she wouldn't be able to have them. After I was born, she had a
few miscarriages, so I was an only child.

The downside - being older, she wasn't as "liberal" and was more
protective than the mothers of many of my peers. I wished that
she was more "with it." I thought she "hovered" too much, but
when I see the "helicopter parents" today that actually accompany
their young-adult children on job interviews, she wasn't even
close to that definition of "hovering." In hindsight, she only
prevented me from doing a lot of stupid things, and I actually
had plenty of freedom.

[I went away to various camps, spent a summer with an aunt when I
was 8, rode my bike all over town, was allowed to date when I
finally snagged a boyfriend at 15, got a driver's license at the
earliest legal age, went on several overnight trips associated
with school or club activities, went away to a summer institute
at a college when I was 16, went 1500 miles away to college, etc.
Probably more freedom than I'd give a child now, if I had one.]

The upside - she was interested in me, supported most of the
activities I wanted to do [music, science, clubs], and somehow
managed to hold a full-time job for part of my childhood and do
things like being a room mother and Girl Scout leader - she was a
lot more energetic than I am!

She wasn't perfect. But I don't think that her imperfections
were related to her age at my birth.

And I was 47 when she died.

FurPaw

--
The plural of anecdote is not proof.

To reply, unleash the dog.

On Jul 11, 10:00*am, "Cathy F." <clfrc...@adelphiadotdashdot.net>
wrote:
> "Eva" <EvaDStructio...@NOverizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:v82dnY99uNtY2-rVnZ2dnUVZ_tDinZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "pumpkin" <billowr...@att.net> wrote in message
> >news:3QBdk.217628$SV4.70230@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> >> it's strange, I always feel that my life and my decisions have to take
> >> into account a large large number of people.....thousands, even millions.
> >> I'm dependent on many people and processes and factors, and any child I
> >> created would be as well. "a child" is every child, and every child is
> >> every geriatric, by my lights.
>
> > ----------------
> > If I thought that way I would never be able to make *any* decisions. *Do
> > you think these women in Niger who keep having babies over and over and
> > over even though half of them die from starvation are worried about The
> > Planet? Even the ability to *make* decisions about having children is a
> > luxury most people in the world don't have. *I'm not saying I would do
> > what the OP wants to do, I'm saying not to pontificate about her moral
> > character so quickly. There are a lot bigger crimes she could commit than
> > having an ill-timed baby.
>
> > Eva
>
> Yep. *This sort of thing is a very personal deal, & there are so many
> variables - what's applicable to one person, or the majority of people, may
> not be applicable to other individuals.
>
> Cathy
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

My very personal take on this question. I was married when I was 22
and my husband was 51. Because I was from the Zero Population Growth
school of thought (early 1970's) and he had children from his first
marriage, we decided he should have a vasectomy early in our marriage
so that I would not be exposed to years of hormones from the Pill.
Turned out that at the time, he wanted to try to have a child, so I am
the one whose convictions governed this decision. Fast forward to when
I was 40 and he was 69. Even with the potential complications of
endometriosis, my clock was ticking. We had a long, hard talk and he
had an unsuccessful reversal of his vasectomy. That he was willing to
try meant the world to me at that time in our marriage, even with our
ages being as they were. I am 56 now and he died in 2006 at the age of
83.

Linda Scheimann

>> ----------------
>> If I thought that way I would never be able to make *any* decisions.

I do think that way, and I make decisions.

Do you
>> think these women in Niger who keep having babies over and over and over
>> even though half of them die from starvation are worried about The
>> Planet?

that has nothing to do with what someone in this NG is writing or thinking.
It's like a salmon talking about being a salmon, and then a debater saying
"Well, do you think lemurs consider that when they leap to the next tree?"
>
> In some societies, big families are valued,

societies? In most parts of the world (and historically in the U.S.)
children are/were labor, period. The more the better. In Third World
countries, children are the only "product" many families have, the only
assets. For women without education, there is no option but uncontrolled
reproduction. Finca and other "microlending" organizations are doing wonders
to empower these people.

>
>> Even the ability to *make* decisions about having children is a luxury
>> most people in the world don't have.

again, not relevant to this discussion among these privileged people.

I'm not saying I would do what the OP wants
>> to do, I'm saying not to pontificate about her moral character so
>> quickly.

It wasn't that quick.

>> There are a lot bigger crimes she could commit than having an ill-timed
>> baby.

Well, that's just silly. Yes, that serial killer who slaughtered 10, at
least he didn't slaughter 15.

now someone will say I am equating childbirth with mass murder.

this whole thread has become hopelessly off topic. time to absquatulate!
>
> Yeah... there are so many unknowns when it comes to having a child, that
> while _in general_ I think it's wiser to have your children before age 40,
> _specific_ cases can turn that upside down.
>
> Some of the objections to having a child at an older age can apply to
> young women, too. A young woman can become disabled, leaving her unable
> to keep up with the child, or she may even die while her child is a
> toddler. And many energetic young women don't have a clue about how to
> raise a child, while an older mother may make up in wisdom what she lacks
> in energy.
>
> FurPaw
>
> --
> The plural of anecdote is not proof.
>
> To reply, unleash the dog.

My very personal take on this question. I was married when I was 22
and my husband was 51. Because I was from the Zero Population Growth
school of thought (early 1970's)

I was in that group but bagged out because their priorities were skewed, at
least I thought so.

and he had children from his first
marriage, we decided he should have a vasectomy early in our marriage
so that I would not be exposed to years of hormones from the Pill.
Turned out that at the time, he wanted to try to have a child, so I am
the one whose convictions governed this decision. Fast forward to when
I was 40 and he was 69. Even with the potential complications of
endometriosis, my clock was ticking. We had a long, hard talk and he
had an unsuccessful reversal of his vasectomy. That he was willing to
try meant the world to me at that time in our marriage, even with our
ages being as they were. I am 56 now and he died in 2006 at the age of
83.

Linda Scheimann

I love this story! It is poignant and sweet and....uplifting. You married at
22 and were married more than 30 (I presume happy) years....that is so
wonderful. Did you talk about adopting, or fostering? In any event, thank
you for sharing that. my goodness, that's a big age difference, but it
obviously worked for you. way to go!