Catch-22 Hormone Issue

I find myself in a sort of catch-22 situation with my hormones. A
little background - I posted here a couple of months ago or maybe
three. I had been switched from Prempro to Estradiol and natural
prog. cream. I had trouble tolerating the side effects from the full
dose of Estradiol and went down to half a dose (.5 mg).

Well, after a couple of months I see I am not doing well at all in the
emotional/anxiety department. I actually even went down to .25 for
about a week and that wasn't good. So I have been taking Buspar (an
antianxiety med) for two weeks now and it has helped the anxiety, but
I now see that the depression side of things is bad. Just like it was
post-partum and PMS during my pre-peri-years. And this week the hot
flashes started rolling in - even at .5 mg.

So on Sunday, out of desperation, I bumped the estradiol up to .75
mg. Within a few hours I felt my mood lifting. And I still feel
great, but here is the problem - I can't sleep and I have a headache.
I've slept five hours in the past two nights.

This is why I lowered the estradiol before - I couldn't relax and it
gave me a headache. If I don't sleep, I WILL be depressed pretty
quickly. I am going to see my doctor today, hopefully, to see about
getting something to help with sleep.

So it's either be depressed and squirrelly and somewhat agoraphobic or
not-depressed and mentally healthier. We are leaving to go on a
cruise on Sunday for a week and I really hope I am somewhat functional
by then.

Does anyone know if this high energy/sleepless/headache thing is
likely to calm down? I do not want to go back to that other feeling,
but I definitely need to rest. I have chronic fatigue syndrome and
this just isn't a healthy thing for me.

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:

> Does anyone know if this high energy/sleepless/headache thing is
> likely to calm down? I do not want to go back to that other feeling,
> but I definitely need to rest. I have chronic fatigue syndrome and
> this just isn't a healthy thing for me.

If you have chronic fatigue syndrome and taking a steroid makes you feel
better but unable to sleep and headachey, you desperately need your HPA
axis evaluated thoroughly.

It's been very well documented repeatedly that CFS patients are low and
slow when it comes to HPA axis function.

You're loading up on one steroid (estradiol) and if it's oral, it's
raising your cortisol binding globulin, if it's transdermal it doesn't.
In addition, I have HPA axis dysfunction, and if I raise my trandermal
progesterone above 20mg per day, I get very weak and shakey, feels just
like my early years with a CFS misdiagnosis.

Susan

On Jun 3, 8:11*am, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Miss Trish wrote:
> > Does anyone know if this high energy/sleepless/headache thing is
> > likely to calm down? *I do not want to go back to that other feeling,
> > but I definitely need to rest. *I have chronic fatigue syndrome and
> > this just isn't a healthy thing for me.
>
> If you have chronic fatigue syndrome and taking a steroid makes you feel
> better but unable to sleep and headachey, you desperately need your HPA
> axis evaluated thoroughly.
>
> It's been very well documented repeatedly that CFS patients are low and
> slow when it comes to HPA axis function.
>
> You're loading up on one steroid (estradiol) and if it's oral, it's
> raising your cortisol binding globulin, if it's transdermal it doesn't.
> In addition, I have HPA axis dysfunction, and if I raise my trandermal
> progesterone above 20mg per day, I get very weak and shakey, feels just
> like my early years with a CFS misdiagnosis.
>
> Susan

So are you saying that I would not feel like this on the transdermal
version?

Pat

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:

> So are you saying that I would not feel like this on the transdermal
> version?


No, I can't tell you anything other than you NEED HPA axis evaluation by
an endocrinologist, though finding one who isn't completely ignorant
about it is a real challenge.

It's very possible, yes, that the oral estrogen is whacking out your HPA
axis by tying up your cortisol in serum.

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Miss Trish wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if this high energy/sleepless/headache thing is
>> likely to calm down? I do not want to go back to that other feeling,
>> but I definitely need to rest. I have chronic fatigue syndrome and
>> this just isn't a healthy thing for me.
>
>
> If you have chronic fatigue syndrome and taking a steroid makes you feel
> better but unable to sleep and headachey, you desperately need your HPA
> axis evaluated thoroughly.
>
> It's been very well documented repeatedly that CFS patients are low and
> slow when it comes to HPA axis function.
>
> You're loading up on one steroid (estradiol) and if it's oral, it's
> raising your cortisol binding globulin, if it's transdermal it doesn't.
> In addition, I have HPA axis dysfunction, and if I raise my trandermal
> progesterone above 20mg per day, I get very weak and shakey, feels just
> like my early years with a CFS misdiagnosis.
>
> Susan

P.S. I forgot to mention that you cannot have your HPA evaluated until
you've been off of oral estrogens for a couple of months, due to the
derangement in CBG that I mentioned earlier.

Neither my endo nor the other specialists I know will test anyone who's
on it.

Susan

On Jun 3, 8:41*am, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>
>
>
> Susan wrote:
> > x-no-archive: yes
>
> > Miss Trish wrote:
>
> >> Does anyone know if this high energy/sleepless/headache thing is
> >> likely to calm down? *I do not want to go back to that other feeling,
> >> but I definitely need to rest. *I have chronic fatigue syndrome and
> >> this just isn't a healthy thing for me.
>
> > If you have chronic fatigue syndrome and taking a steroid makes you feel
> > better but unable to sleep and headachey, you desperately need your HPA
> > axis evaluated thoroughly.
>
> > It's been very well documented repeatedly that CFS patients are low and
> > slow when it comes to HPA axis function.
>
> > You're loading up on one steroid (estradiol) and if it's oral, it's
> > raising your cortisol binding globulin, if it's transdermal it doesn't.
> > In addition, I have HPA axis dysfunction, and if I raise my trandermal
> > progesterone above 20mg per day, I get very weak and shakey, feels just
> > like my early years with a CFS misdiagnosis.
>
> > Susan
>
> P.S. I forgot to mention that you cannot have your HPA evaluated until
> you've been off of oral estrogens for a couple of months, due to the
> derangement in CBG that I mentioned earlier.
>
> Neither my endo nor the other specialists I know will test anyone who's
> on it.
>
> Susan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ok, thanks. That's good info for the long haul - in the short term, I
feel like I'm that fabled creek right now w/no paddle.

Pat

On Jun 3, 8:45*am, Miss Trish <trishca...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On Jun 3, 8:41*am, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > x-no-archive: yes
>
> > Susan wrote:
> > > x-no-archive: yes
>
> > > Miss Trish wrote:
>
> > >> Does anyone know if this high energy/sleepless/headache thing is
> > >> likely to calm down? *I do not want to go back to that other feeling,
> > >> but I definitely need to rest. *I have chronic fatigue syndrome and
> > >> this just isn't a healthy thing for me.
>
> > > If you have chronic fatigue syndrome and taking a steroid makes you feel
> > > better but unable to sleep and headachey, you desperately need your HPA
> > > axis evaluated thoroughly.
>
> > > It's been very well documented repeatedly that CFS patients are low and
> > > slow when it comes to HPA axis function.
>
> > > You're loading up on one steroid (estradiol) and if it's oral, it's
> > > raising your cortisol binding globulin, if it's transdermal it doesn't..
> > > In addition, I have HPA axis dysfunction, and if I raise my trandermal
> > > progesterone above 20mg per day, I get very weak and shakey, feels just
> > > like my early years with a CFS misdiagnosis.
>
> > > Susan
>
> > P.S. I forgot to mention that you cannot have your HPA evaluated until
> > you've been off of oral estrogens for a couple of months, due to the
> > derangement in CBG that I mentioned earlier.
>
> > Neither my endo nor the other specialists I know will test anyone who's
> > on it.
>
> > Susan- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Okay - thanks. *That's good to know for the long haul - for the short
> term, I feel like I'm up that fabled creek w/no paddle.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sorry about the double post - my brain is fried at the moment.

Pat

On Jun 3, 8:41*am, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>
>
>
> Susan wrote:
> > x-no-archive: yes
>
> > Miss Trish wrote:
>
> >> Does anyone know if this high energy/sleepless/headache thing is
> >> likely to calm down? *I do not want to go back to that other feeling,
> >> but I definitely need to rest. *I have chronic fatigue syndrome and
> >> this just isn't a healthy thing for me.
>
> > If you have chronic fatigue syndrome and taking a steroid makes you feel
> > better but unable to sleep and headachey, you desperately need your HPA
> > axis evaluated thoroughly.
>
> > It's been very well documented repeatedly that CFS patients are low and
> > slow when it comes to HPA axis function.
>
> > You're loading up on one steroid (estradiol) and if it's oral, it's
> > raising your cortisol binding globulin, if it's transdermal it doesn't.
> > In addition, I have HPA axis dysfunction, and if I raise my trandermal
> > progesterone above 20mg per day, I get very weak and shakey, feels just
> > like my early years with a CFS misdiagnosis.
>
> > Susan
>
> P.S. I forgot to mention that you cannot have your HPA evaluated until
> you've been off of oral estrogens for a couple of months, due to the
> derangement in CBG that I mentioned earlier.
>
> Neither my endo nor the other specialists I know will test anyone who's
> on it.
>
> Susan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Okay - thanks. That's good to know for the long haul - for the short
term, I feel like I'm up that fabled creek w/no paddle.

Another question - if I did switch to a skin patch, what changes in
side effects (negative or positive) would I see, do you think? I'm
wondering how risky it would be for me to change right now. I really
am sweating this cruise, lol. It's too expensive not to enjoy it!

Pat

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:

> Ok, thanks. That's good info for the long haul - in the short term, I
> feel like I'm that fabled creek right now w/no paddle.
>
> Pat

You can do what my sister is doing to get off her massive dose of
Premarin; she's lowering it by very small increments every few weeks,
and adding transdermal Oestrogel at the same time. Two headachey days
and she's over the hump til the next change.

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:
> Another question - if I did switch to a skin patch, what changes in
> side effects (negative or positive) would I see, do you think? I'm
> wondering how risky it would be for me to change right now. I really
> am sweating this cruise, lol. It's too expensive not to enjoy it!


Why use a patch, why not cream? With individual creams, you can adjust
the dose my very individualized amounts. With a patch, you risk
irritation and/or allergy and you're stuck with a dose developed for the
masses instead of your body.

I can't say if you'd feel better or worse on transdermal in the short
run, but I can tell you that deranging your whole HPA axis by elevating
CBG is very damaging to your health and functioning as a whole.

Susan

On Jun 3, 11:38*am, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Miss Trish wrote:
> > Ok, thanks. *That's good info for the long haul - in the short term, I
> > feel like I'm that fabled creek right now w/no paddle.
>
> > Pat
>
> You can do what my sister is doing to get off her massive dose of
> Premarin; she's lowering it by very small increments every few weeks,
> and adding transdermal Oestrogel at the same time. Two headachey days
> and she's over the hump til the next change.
>
> Susan

I have been off of the Premarin now for about three months and boy am
I glad! I wonder how costly Oestrogel is... I pay about $65 for my
progesterone cream for a month.

Pat

On Jun 3, 11:37*am, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Why use a patch, why not cream? *With individual creams, you can adjust
> the dose my very individualized amounts. *With a patch, you risk
> irritation and/or allergy and you're stuck with a dose developed for the
> masses instead of your body.
>
> I can't say if you'd feel better or worse on transdermal in the short
> run, but I can tell you that deranging your whole HPA axis by elevating
> CBG is very damaging to your health and functioning as a whole.
>
> Susan

I was wanting a patch because my insurance pays for most of that. It
will not pay for any of the cream, and we are on a tight budget right
now. I did talk to the pharmacist, and after I get back from our
cruise I am going to try switching over to either the patch or the
cream. He is a big advocate of the transdermal method.

Pat

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:

> I have been off of the Premarin now for about three months and boy am
> I glad! I wonder how costly Oestrogel is... I pay about $65 for my
> progesterone cream for a month.


I've been Using Progest and what looks like a few month's supply or more
costs me about $40.

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:

> I was wanting a patch because my insurance pays for most of that. It
> will not pay for any of the cream, and we are on a tight budget right
> now. I did talk to the pharmacist, and after I get back from our
> cruise I am going to try switching over to either the patch or the
> cream. He is a big advocate of the transdermal method.


I got what's probably a year's supply from masters pharmacy in the UK
with my doc's rex for about $56 including shipping.

If you can afford a cruise, you can afford Oestrogel.

Susan

On Jun 3, 3:12*pm, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Miss Trish wrote:
> > I was wanting a patch because my insurance pays for most of that. *It
> > will not pay for any of the cream, and we are on a tight budget right
> > now. *I did talk to the pharmacist, and after I get back from our
> > cruise I am going to try switching over to either the patch or the
> > cream. *He is a big advocate of the transdermal method.
>
> I got what's probably a year's supply from masters pharmacy in the UK
> with my doc's rex for about $56 including shipping.
>
> If you can afford a cruise, you can afford Oestrogel.
>
> Susan

The cruise is a one shot thing.

I am crashing from lack of sleep.

Pat

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:

> The cruise is a one shot thing.
>
> I am crashing from lack of sleep.
>


I wasn't begrudging you the cruise, just pointing out how affordable the
gel is!

Here's where my endo rx's from:

http://www.masters-uk.com/medicines/


Susan

On Jun 3, 5:29*pm, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Miss Trish wrote:
> > The cruise is a one shot thing.
>
> > I am crashing from lack of sleep.
>
> I wasn't begrudging you the cruise, just pointing out how affordable the
> gel is!
>
> Here's where my endo rx's from:
>
> http://www.masters-uk.com/medicines/
>
> Susan

Excellent - thanks so much. I am saving this link and when I get back
I will explore this option more thoroughly.

Pat