CES estrogen questions

I have not posted here for a long time but I've had ten years + of
perimenopause. I am probably post menopausal by now but I can't know as I
had a hysterectomy 31 years ago. I have one ovary.

My endocrinologist prescribed bioidentical estrogen (Tri-est) and
progesterone (generic form of Prometrium) both compounded, for the last 3
years. Prior to this I suffered all the symptoms of peri on the list, for
years, no matter what I tried. These compounded hormones worked and I felt
better, almost normal, in every way. My IBS went away; I was able to go back
to work briefly.

I lost the jobs and have been unable to find another yet - I have a small
disability pension - and after using up all my savings, just recently, I
could no longer afford the compounded hormones as they aren't covered. So I
went to the plant based conjugated estrogen, CES, and no progesterone at all
as none are covered. I've been using CES for a few months now.

I'm feeling horrible with a return of severe IBS and anxiety ,and I decided
to stop the CES 3 days ago, so now I don't know if it was stopping the
progesterone or the tri-est, which caused this. I don't feel the CES was
working or I wouldn't have a dramatic downturn in my wellbeing. I had a
certain wellness baseline before which is gone since I stopped the 2
compounded hormones.

Have any of you had experience with CES (it may be just the Canadian name)
compared to other forms? The dr. gave me what was supposed to be the
equivalent of what I took in Tri-est. I never took anything else but this or
the compounded Tri-est. Years ago I used the progesterone cream but I never
was sure if it was helping at all.

I did some reading just now online and find that CES is just like Premarin
in the body and gives the risk of thrombosis. It's not at all equivalent to
compounded tri-est.

I determined a few years ago I'd live with the risk of the hormones in order
to be able to function, but now with this CES I'm back to being non
functional. So there is no point to it.

I don't know what to do now. I was stable on the two hormones for 3 years;
no hot flashes or IBS. I still had anxiety but not a lot. Now that is back
as well as constant IBS.

I'd be grateful to hear from other women with hysterectomies who had success
or not, using CES or bioidentical hormones. Perhaps I'm wrong and it's
nothing to do with the hormones or lack of them. Just wondering if others
have experienced this.

aspidistra wrote:
> I have not posted here for a long time but I've had ten years + of
> perimenopause. I am probably post menopausal by now but I can't know as I
> had a hysterectomy 31 years ago. I have one ovary.
>
> My endocrinologist prescribed bioidentical estrogen (Tri-est) and
> progesterone (generic form of Prometrium) both compounded, for the last 3
> years. Prior to this I suffered all the symptoms of peri on the list, for
> years, no matter what I tried. These compounded hormones worked and I felt
> better, almost normal, in every way. My IBS went away; I was able to go back
> to work briefly.
>
> I lost the jobs and have been unable to find another yet - I have a small
> disability pension - and after using up all my savings, just recently, I
> could no longer afford the compounded hormones as they aren't covered. So I
> went to the plant based conjugated estrogen, CES, and no progesterone at all
> as none are covered. I've been using CES for a few months now.
>
> I'm feeling horrible with a return of severe IBS and anxiety ,and I decided
> to stop the CES 3 days ago, so now I don't know if it was stopping the
> progesterone or the tri-est, which caused this. I don't feel the CES was
> working or I wouldn't have a dramatic downturn in my wellbeing. I had a
> certain wellness baseline before which is gone since I stopped the 2
> compounded hormones.
>
> Have any of you had experience with CES (it may be just the Canadian name)
> compared to other forms? The dr. gave me what was supposed to be the
> equivalent of what I took in Tri-est. I never took anything else but this or
> the compounded Tri-est. Years ago I used the progesterone cream but I never
> was sure if it was helping at all.
>
> I did some reading just now online and find that CES is just like Premarin
> in the body and gives the risk of thrombosis. It's not at all equivalent to
> compounded tri-est.
>
> I determined a few years ago I'd live with the risk of the hormones in order
> to be able to function, but now with this CES I'm back to being non
> functional. So there is no point to it.
>
> I don't know what to do now. I was stable on the two hormones for 3 years;
> no hot flashes or IBS. I still had anxiety but not a lot. Now that is back
> as well as constant IBS.
>
> I'd be grateful to hear from other women with hysterectomies who had success
> or not, using CES or bioidentical hormones. Perhaps I'm wrong and it's
> nothing to do with the hormones or lack of them. Just wondering if others
> have experienced this.

Hi, aspidistra, and welcome back to asm!

I can't answer any of your questions regarding CES - I'm not
familiar with it. What has been observed, however, is that
stopping hormone therapy can, for a fair number of women, bring
on the set of symptoms that they took HT to overcome.

Did you stop taking the first set of hormones suddenly, and then
switch to CES? Or did you phase them out slowly, gradually
reducing your dose over a period of a few months? If you stopped
them suddenly, it might be worth considering going back on lower
doses of Tri-est and the prometrium, and then gradually
decreasing them over the period of a few months.

Have you explored other means of controlling your IBS, e.g.,
trying elimination diets, such as eliminating wheat?

I don't know if any of this will help; other folks will be along
with more suggestions.

FurPaw


--
My family values don't involve depleted uranium.

To reply, unleash the dog.

I stopp
"FurPaw" <furrealpawdog@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:PI2dnaseu7U0CkrYnZ2dnUVZ_v2knZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Did you stop taking the first set of hormones suddenly, and then switch to
> CES? Or did you phase them out slowly, gradually reducing your dose over
> a period of a few months? If you stopped them suddenly, it might be worth
> considering going back on lower doses of Tri-est and the prometrium, and
> then gradually decreasing them over the period of a few months.
>
> Have you explored other means of controlling your IBS, e.g., trying
> elimination diets, such as eliminating wheat?
> FurPaw
>
>

Thanks, FurPaw. I ran out of the tri-est first, then the progesterone a week
later; I got the CES right away and that was in December.

I've just phoned in a renewal for the ones I couldn't afford. For now I'll
charge them because I've got to see if that is why I'm feeling so rotten.
They won't be ready till next week though.

I've experimented with my diet re the IBS, and read a lot about it lately
when it flared up. I found out that fibre can make it worse so I gave up
whole wheat and bran. I hardly know what to eat anymore as nothing makes
much difference, though some are worse like bran. White flour is supposed to
be easier to digest and I ate some waffles that didn't hurt, but this is not
healthy eating. I've got to go buy the things that are supposed to be
easiest, applesauce, white bread and bananas.

I've got this bloating today but at least it's not painful like it was all
week.

>> Have you explored other means of controlling your IBS, e.g., trying
>> elimination diets, such as eliminating wheat?
>> FurPaw
>>
>>
>
> Thanks, FurPaw. I ran out of the tri-est first, then the progesterone a
> week later; I got the CES right away and that was in December.
>
> I've just phoned in a renewal for the ones I couldn't afford. For now I'll
> charge them because I've got to see if that is why I'm feeling so rotten.
> They won't be ready till next week though.
>
> I've experimented with my diet re the IBS, and read a lot about it lately
> when it flared up. I found out that fibre can make it worse so I gave up
> whole wheat and bran. I hardly know what to eat anymore as nothing makes
> much difference, though some are worse like bran. White flour is supposed
> to be easier to digest and I ate some waffles that didn't hurt, but this
> is not healthy eating. I've got to go buy the things that are supposed to
> be easiest, applesauce, white bread and bananas.
>
> I've got this bloating today but at least it's not painful like it was all
> week.

I know money is a concern with you but I have found that acupuncture has
helped my IBS and GERD tremendously. My reflux was under control for about 4
months and then flared badly and I was back on Nexium.The IBS has never been
under good control. After 6 sessions of acupuncture my digestive tract is so
much happier, no constipation, bloating or gas. I found taking 1 tsp of
psyllium HUSKS twice/day really helps.

Roseanne

foggydoggy <foggydoggy@cogeco.ca> wrote:

>aspidistra <aspidistra@x82md.com>
> > I've got this bloating today but at least it's not painful like it was all
> > week.

Did this start after the hysterectomy? Because if so, I can't help but
wonder if that's what is causing it. Some women find that other organs
shift into the empty space the uterus once occupied, which can interfere
with those organs' functioning. It may be something that could be fixed
with surgery.

> I found taking 1 tsp of psyllium HUSKS twice/day really helps.

Helps me, too. Takes care of constipation, diarrhea and gas.

--
Keera in Norway * Think big. Shrink to fit.
http://home.online.no/~kafox/

foggydoggy wrote:
>>> Have you explored other means of controlling your IBS, e.g., trying
>>> elimination diets, such as eliminating wheat?
>>> FurPaw
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks, FurPaw. I ran out of the tri-est first, then the progesterone a
>> week later; I got the CES right away and that was in December.
>>
>> I've just phoned in a renewal for the ones I couldn't afford. For now I'll
>> charge them because I've got to see if that is why I'm feeling so rotten.
>> They won't be ready till next week though.
>>
>> I've experimented with my diet re the IBS, and read a lot about it lately
>> when it flared up. I found out that fibre can make it worse so I gave up
>> whole wheat and bran.

Although I'm no expert on IBS, I thought that fiber was
recommended to help improve IBS - possibly by filling the colon
and thereby reducing the spasms.
http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/ibs/
http://www.webmd.com/hw/irritable_bo...e/hw117980.asp

However, fiber can cause gas and bloating, so it's recommended to
introduce it into your diet gradually. Have you experimented
with different types of fiber? I've found that just wheat bran
by itself or in cereal gives me more gas, but other forms and
types of fiber, like psyllium, or ground flax seed, or oat bran,
don't have that effect on me.

I hardly know what to eat anymore as nothing makes
>> much difference, though some are worse like bran. White flour is supposed
>> to be easier to digest and I ate some waffles that didn't hurt, but this
>> is not healthy eating.

The above articles (and many others) recommend eating whole grain
foods, because the indigestible fiber absorbs water and helps to
keep the stool soft and the colon filled (among many other
reasons). But whole grain wheat may not be the thing for you,
while other whole grains might be beneficial.

I've got to go buy the things that are supposed to
>> be easiest, applesauce, white bread and bananas.

Applesauce and bananas both contain some fiber; whole apples with
skin add more. Here's a chart:
http://library.umsmed.edu/pe-db/pe-fiber-food.pdf

>> I've got this bloating today but at least it's not painful like it was all
>> week.

Another thing you could consider is yogurt with live cultures,
for the acidophilus and bifidum and other "probiotic" bacteria.
There are some studies that indicate IBS improvement with
probiotics for some people, but the information is still spotty
as to which type of probiotic works best - or there may just be a
lot of variation and people would need to experiment to find the
ones that work best for them.
http://www.webmd.com/content/Article...m?pagenumber=1

Here's a Wikipedia article about probiotics - though I'd take
what it says about colon hydrotherapy with a grain of salt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probiotic

> I know money is a concern with you but I have found that acupuncture has
> helped my IBS and GERD tremendously. My reflux was under control for about 4
> months and then flared badly and I was back on Nexium.The IBS has never been
> under good control. After 6 sessions of acupuncture my digestive tract is so
> much happier, no constipation, bloating or gas. I found taking 1 tsp of
> psyllium HUSKS twice/day really helps.

I've experimented with a variety of different types of fiber, and
I keep coming back to psyllium husks myself. They're the "active
ingredient" in Metamucil, but if you buy the plain husks (whole
or ground) you avoid the extra sugar or sweetener or flavorings.
Right now I'm using 1-2 tsp a day, along with ground flax seed
(a tablespoon before grinding, both for fiber and omega-3s), and
I mix them either in yogurt or with breakfast cereal (usually
both simultaneously).

FurPaw


--
My family values don't involve depleted uranium.

To reply, unleash the dog.

FurPaw <furrealpawdog@gmail.com> wrote:

> foggydoggy wrote:
> >>> Have you explored other means of controlling your IBS, e.g., trying
> >>> elimination diets, such as eliminating wheat?
> >>> FurPaw
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Thanks, FurPaw. I ran out of the tri-est first, then the progesterone a
> >> week later; I got the CES right away and that was in December.
> >>
> >> I've just phoned in a renewal for the ones I couldn't afford. For now I'll
> >> charge them because I've got to see if that is why I'm feeling so rotten.
> >> They won't be ready till next week though.
> >>
> >> I've experimented with my diet re the IBS, and read a lot about it lately
> >> when it flared up. I found out that fibre can make it worse so I gave up
> >> whole wheat and bran.
>
> Although I'm no expert on IBS, I thought that fiber was
> recommended to help improve IBS - possibly by filling the colon
> and thereby reducing the spasms.
> http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/ibs/
> http://www.webmd.com/hw/irritable_bo...e/hw117980.asp

That depends on the fiber. There are two kinds: Soluble and non-soluble.
The latter is found in vegetables and fruits and can irritate an already
sensitive gut; the former is usually found in starchy foods, like whole
rice, and is gentler.

> However, fiber can cause gas and bloating, so it's recommended to
> introduce it into your diet gradually. Have you experimented
> with different types of fiber? I've found that just wheat bran
> by itself or in cereal gives me more gas, but other forms and
> types of fiber, like psyllium, or ground flax seed, or oat bran,
> don't have that effect on me.

See? You stick to soluble primarily, too. :-)

I got a good education about food and IBS here:
<http://www.helpforibs.com/diet/> That's when I realized that all the
fiber I was eating to do something about the constipation, was the
reason I know also get diarrhea.

Reminds me of treating acne when I was a teenager: The products for the
zits were murder on the rest of my face. Giving up those products
actually helped my complexion.

> >> I hardly know what to eat anymore as nothing makes
> >> much difference, though some are worse like bran. White flour is supposed
> >> to be easier to digest and I ate some waffles that didn't hurt, but this
> >> is not healthy eating.
>
> The above articles (and many others) recommend eating whole grain
> foods, because the indigestible fiber absorbs water and helps to
> keep the stool soft and the colon filled (among many other
> reasons). But whole grain wheat may not be the thing for you,
> while other whole grains might be beneficial.

There is a suggestion that IBS-sufferers are slightly gluten intolerant,
but may tolerate spelt (a non-commercial type of wheat).

--
Keera in Norway * Think big. Shrink to fit.
http://home.online.no/~kafox/

Keera Ann Fox wrote:
> FurPaw <furrealpawdog@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> foggydoggy wrote:
>>>>> Have you explored other means of controlling your IBS, e.g., trying
>>>>> elimination diets, such as eliminating wheat?
>>>>> FurPaw
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks, FurPaw. I ran out of the tri-est first, then the progesterone a
>>>> week later; I got the CES right away and that was in December.
>>>>
>>>> I've just phoned in a renewal for the ones I couldn't afford. For now I'll
>>>> charge them because I've got to see if that is why I'm feeling so rotten.
>>>> They won't be ready till next week though.
>>>>
>>>> I've experimented with my diet re the IBS, and read a lot about it lately
>>>> when it flared up. I found out that fibre can make it worse so I gave up
>>>> whole wheat and bran.
>> Although I'm no expert on IBS, I thought that fiber was
>> recommended to help improve IBS - possibly by filling the colon
>> and thereby reducing the spasms.
>> http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/ibs/
>> http://www.webmd.com/hw/irritable_bo...e/hw117980.asp
>
> That depends on the fiber. There are two kinds: Soluble and non-soluble.
> The latter is found in vegetables and fruits and can irritate an already
> sensitive gut; the former is usually found in starchy foods, like whole
> rice, and is gentler.

Right - but most fruits and vegetables contain both types of
fiber, with proportions varying with the type of fruit/vegetable
and the part that you're eating.
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/sp-su99/santana.html

What I hadn't heard before was about modifying HOW you eat
insoluble fiber, to minimize its impact - cooking, chopping,
pureeing, not eating it on an empty stomach, frex (from one of
the links off the site you give below -
http://www.helpforibs.com/diet/fiber2.asp)

>> However, fiber can cause gas and bloating, so it's recommended to
>> introduce it into your diet gradually. Have you experimented
>> with different types of fiber? I've found that just wheat bran
>> by itself or in cereal gives me more gas, but other forms and
>> types of fiber, like psyllium, or ground flax seed, or oat bran,
>> don't have that effect on me.
>
> See? You stick to soluble primarily, too. :-)

Actually, I try to avoid processed grains and eat whole wheat,
other whole grains and other insoluble fiber sources like
broccoli, whole fruit with peel, beans. Wheat bran doesn't seem
to bother me when it's packaged with the rest of the grain; the
main problem I had with it was in eating things like All-bran cereal.

> I got a good education about food and IBS here:
> <http://www.helpforibs.com/diet/> That's when I realized that all the
> fiber I was eating to do something about the constipation, was the
> reason I know also get diarrhea.

Looks like a good site.

> Reminds me of treating acne when I was a teenager: The products for the
> zits were murder on the rest of my face. Giving up those products
> actually helped my complexion.

Or using Noxzema on a subburn... intuitively, it seems like the
menthol or whatever in Noxzema would have a cooling effect, but
it turns out to be one of the worst things you can use on a sunburn.

>>>> I hardly know what to eat anymore as nothing makes
>>>> much difference, though some are worse like bran. White flour is supposed
>>>> to be easier to digest and I ate some waffles that didn't hurt, but this
>>>> is not healthy eating.
>> The above articles (and many others) recommend eating whole grain
>> foods, because the indigestible fiber absorbs water and helps to
>> keep the stool soft and the colon filled (among many other
>> reasons). But whole grain wheat may not be the thing for you,
>> while other whole grains might be beneficial.
>
> There is a suggestion that IBS-sufferers are slightly gluten intolerant,
> but may tolerate spelt (a non-commercial type of wheat).

I have a friend who says that giving up gluten has has worked for
her.

FurPaw

--
My family values don't involve depleted uranium.

To reply, unleash the dog.

Thanks for the tips about diet and fibre. I am still exploring the idea that
stopping the hormones has thrown my body into some kind of distress. I still
think it might be. I found a very informative page with quotes from this
newsgroup:

http://www.geocities.com/menobeyond/....html#anecdote

In this page I found a very important sentence, which was that coming off
estrogen suddenly was not good especially when on thyroid. I had completely
forgotten that estrogen and thyroid were related and I was only taking my
higher dose of thyroid WHILE on estrogen because it increases the need for
thyroid. So perhaps I am having hyper symptoms which include anxiety and
diarrhea because the thyroid dose is now too high. As I am going to start
taking the estrogen again on Tues. I will take less thyroid till then, and I
guess I will try to be patient will my ill feelings.

Any comments or experiences with estrogen especially those who are on
thyroid would be so welcome, thanks for your patience with me.

FurPaw wrote:
> foggydoggy wrote:
>>>> Have you explored other means of controlling your IBS, e.g., trying
>>>> elimination diets, such as eliminating wheat?
>>>> FurPaw
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Thanks, FurPaw. I ran out of the tri-est first, then the progesterone
>>> a week later; I got the CES right away and that was in December.
>>>
>>> I've just phoned in a renewal for the ones I couldn't afford. For now
>>> I'll charge them because I've got to see if that is why I'm feeling
>>> so rotten. They won't be ready till next week though.
>>>
>>> I've experimented with my diet re the IBS, and read a lot about it
>>> lately when it flared up. I found out that fibre can make it worse so
>>> I gave up whole wheat and bran.
>
> Although I'm no expert on IBS, I thought that fiber was recommended to
> help improve IBS - possibly by filling the colon and thereby reducing
> the spasms.
> http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/ibs/
> http://www.webmd.com/hw/irritable_bo...e/hw117980.asp
>
> However, fiber can cause gas and bloating, so it's recommended to
> introduce it into your diet gradually. Have you experimented with
> different types of fiber? I've found that just wheat bran by itself or
> in cereal gives me more gas, but other forms and types of fiber, like
> psyllium, or ground flax seed, or oat bran, don't have that effect on me.
>
I have IBS as well. You are right about fiber being recommended - my doc
always told me to make sure I got my fiber every day. I eat Fiber One
cereal every day and it seems to help. You are also right about
introducing fiber into the diet gradually.

It is hell to have! I had to have a colonoscopy in order for them to
diagnose me with this.

Has anyone tried BeneFiber or anything like that? Just curious if that
helps.

Kath

aspidistra <aspidistra@x82md.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the tips about diet and fibre. I am still exploring the idea that
> stopping the hormones has thrown my body into some kind of distress. I still
> think it might be. I found a very informative page with quotes from this
> newsgroup:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/menobeyond/....html#anecdote
>
> In this page I found a very important sentence, which was that coming off
> estrogen suddenly was not good especially when on thyroid. I had completely
> forgotten that estrogen and thyroid were related and I was only taking my
> higher dose of thyroid WHILE on estrogen because it increases the need for
> thyroid. So perhaps I am having hyper symptoms which include anxiety and
> diarrhea because the thyroid dose is now too high. As I am going to start
> taking the estrogen again on Tues. I will take less thyroid till then, and I
> guess I will try to be patient will my ill feelings.

Uh, why not reduce the thyroid medication and see if that will do the
trick? (Guided by your doctor. Shouldn't mess with that stuff
willy-nilly.)

--
Keera in Norway * Think big. Shrink to fit.
http://home.online.no/~kafox/