Doctors Are Not Gods

Some of the posts from my fellow Menoans (does someone have a better
name?) have confirmed my view that we expect too much from doctors and
the whole medical establishment. Of course we all need doctors at
times, and they do a great deal of good. But they're only human, and
they make mistakes like the rest of us. Most of them don't seem to
know much about menopause, and most medical resarch is done only on
men.
Almost everyone assumes that more medical care is better than less,
but my experience is that this isn't necessarily so. My mom and I are
at opposite extremes. She's had numerous medical problems; hardly a
week goes by without a doctor visit. She also has conditions CAUSED
by doctors, including chronic infections she got during dozens of
hospital stays. The progressively stronger antibiotics she's taken
for five years have destroyed her immune system. I think it's safe to
say she may die of too much medical care.
I started out assuming that my lifelong lack of health insurance would
be health-threatening, but so far it's been a blessing in disguise.
20 years ago I had a very scary heart episode that lasted a week, but
was too poverty-stricken to go to a doctor, and too young to be
scared. The problem went away and never came back. If I'd gone to a
doctor, I would doubtless have been put on some heavy-duty pills and
told to limit my activity, for no reason. I admit I was lucky.
I've also seen enough examples of doctor inconsistency to sow some
doubt. The latest was two relatives with tick bites. Both got the
tick off in a couple hours, head and all. One went to a doctor and
was given a long course of antibiotics. The other was told what the
literature says--if you get the whole tick out within 24 hours, the
chance of getting lyme disease is astronomically small, and no
treatment is warranted. Most of us know people who died because some
doctor wouldn't admit his ignorance.
Only time will tell if I win my gamble of trying to make it to age 65
(and Medicare) without a ruinous medical bill. But so far, I'm better
off than my mom was at my age, when she started losing her game of
doctor roulette.
Of course doctors have their place, and yes, their jobs are hard. I'm
not saying we should doubt everything doctors say, or to avoid them
when something's wrong. I believe they really want to help us, but
sometimes we expect too much from them. And we need to take more
responsibility for maintaining our own health. No doctor can know us
as well as we know ourselves.
Les

"sage hen" <desertnymph@cwo.com> wrote in message
news:1185052479.868766.157430@w3g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
> Some of the posts from my fellow Menoans (does someone have a better
> name?) .....
----------------
The usual designation around here is "menobabes."

Eva

"sage hen" <desertnymph@cwo.com> wrote in message
news:1185052479.868766.157430@w3g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
> Some of the posts from my fellow Menoans (does someone have a better
> name?)

Menobabes. :-)

Cathy

sage hen <desertnymph@cwo.com> wrote in news:1185052479.868766.157430
@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

> Some of the posts from my fellow Menoans (does someone have a better
> name?)

We often use 'meno-babes' but personally I like the word 'crone'.

> have confirmed my view that we expect too much from doctors and
> the whole medical establishment. Of course we all need doctors at
> times, and they do a great deal of good. But they're only human, and
> they make mistakes like the rest of us. Most of them don't seem to
> know much about menopause, and most medical resarch is done only on
> men.

Plus most of them seem to think that they must act as if they do know
everything, even when they don't. And they're trained from educational
infancy to believe that they're smarter than everybody else.

I just always remember that it may take an 'A' average to get into med
school, but you can graduate with a 'C' average.

> Almost everyone assumes that more medical care is better than less,
> but my experience is that this isn't necessarily so. My mom and I are
> at opposite extremes. She's had numerous medical problems; hardly a
> week goes by without a doctor visit. She also has conditions CAUSED
> by doctors, including chronic infections she got during dozens of
> hospital stays. The progressively stronger antibiotics she's taken
> for five years have destroyed her immune system. I think it's safe to
> say she may die of too much medical care.

90,000 people die every year of 'medical misadventure' in hospitals.
That doesn't even count the number of people who die from prescribed
drugs. More than half of all liver transplants are necessitated by
patients taking meds that were properly prescribed and properly taken.

> I started out assuming that my lifelong lack of health insurance would
> be health-threatening, but so far it's been a blessing in disguise.
> 20 years ago I had a very scary heart episode that lasted a week, but
> was too poverty-stricken to go to a doctor, and too young to be
> scared. The problem went away and never came back. If I'd gone to a
> doctor, I would doubtless have been put on some heavy-duty pills and
> told to limit my activity, for no reason. I admit I was lucky.
> I've also seen enough examples of doctor inconsistency to sow some
> doubt. The latest was two relatives with tick bites. Both got the
> tick off in a couple hours, head and all. One went to a doctor and
> was given a long course of antibiotics. The other was told what the
> literature says--if you get the whole tick out within 24 hours, the
> chance of getting lyme disease is astronomically small, and no
> treatment is warranted. Most of us know people who died because some
> doctor wouldn't admit his ignorance.

This is why I'm relieved that my medical care these days comes from the
Chicago Board of Health. They can't afford to give you the latest and
most expensive, so I'll get minimal care, and that suits me just fine.

> Only time will tell if I win my gamble of trying to make it to age 65
> (and Medicare) without a ruinous medical bill. But so far, I'm better
> off than my mom was at my age, when she started losing her game of
> doctor roulette.

Same here. By the time my father was eligible for Medicare, he was on so
many different meds he didn't even know what they were all for. Several
of them were to treat the side effects of the other drugs.

I'm taking two prescription meds, for diabetes, and neither of them gives
me any trouble. They're both old tried-and-trues, and not under patent,
which gives me much more confidence than getting the 'latest thing'.

> Of course doctors have their place, and yes, their jobs are hard. I'm
> not saying we should doubt everything doctors say, or to avoid them
> when something's wrong. I believe they really want to help us, but
> sometimes we expect too much from them. And we need to take more
> responsibility for maintaining our own health. No doctor can know us
> as well as we know ourselves.
> Les

And the ones who do best are the ones who recognize that the patient is
the one who heals, the doctor can only help out from time to time.


Chak

--
Ninety-Ninety Law: The first 90% of the code accounts for the first 90%
of the development time. The remaining 10% of the code accounts for the
other 90% of the development time.

Chakolate wrote:

> I just always remember that it may take an 'A' average to get into med
> school, but you can graduate with a 'C' average.

What do you call the person who graduates at the bottom of
his/her medical school class?
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
Doctor.

FurPaw

--
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched,
every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense
a theft from those who hunger and are not fed,
those who are cold and are not clothed."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

To reply, unleash the dog.

Eva wrote:
> "sage hen" <desertnymph@cwo.com> wrote in message
> news:1185052479.868766.157430@w3g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
>> Some of the posts from my fellow Menoans (does someone have a better
>> name?) .....
> ----------------
> The usual designation around here is "menobabes."
>
> Eva
>
>

I like them both -- but you know, the Minoan civilization
was goddess-based, so menoans seems kind of appropriate.


--
pax,
ruth


Save trees AND money! Buy used books!
http://stores.ebay.com/Noir-and-More-Books-and-Trains

On Jul 22, 1:14 am, Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpamm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> 90,000 people die every year of 'medical misadventure' in hospitals.
> That doesn't even count the number of people who die from prescribed
> drugs. More than half of all liver transplants are necessitated by
> patients taking meds that were properly prescribed and properly taken.
>

Proportions! Although the number of deaths from medical misadventure
I found was even more than what you found, 98,000, it still represents
about 1 person in 2,775 or 0.04%. I will take my chances with doctors
and hospitals when I need them. I think our chances are not so bad
with doctors and hospitals when we need them.

JustGB

On Jul 22, 9:20 am, JustGB <gettingb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 22, 1:14 am, Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpamm...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > 90,000 people die every year of 'medical misadventure' in hospitals.
> > That doesn't even count the number of people who die from prescribed
> > drugs. More than half of all liver transplants are necessitated by
> > patients taking meds that were properly prescribed and properly taken.
>
> Proportions! Although the number of deaths from medical misadventure
> I found was even more than what you found, 98,000, it still represents
> about 1 person in 2,775 or 0.04%. I will take my chances with doctors
> and hospitals when I need them. I think our chances are not so bad
> with doctors and hospitals when we need them.

Sorry, I meant to add here that there were 33.7 million hospital stays
(in 2002, not counting new-borns).

On Jul 21, 5:14 pm, sage hen <desertny...@cwo.com> wrote:
> Some of the posts from my fellow Menoans (does someone have a better
> name?) have confirmed my view that we expect too much from doctors and
> the whole medical establishment. Of course we all need doctors at
> times, and they do a great deal of good. But they're only human, and
> they make mistakes like the rest of us. Most of them don't seem to
> know much about menopause, and most medical resarch is done only on
> men.
> Almost everyone assumes that more medical care is better than less,
> but my experience is that this isn't necessarily so. My mom and I are
> at opposite extremes. She's had numerous medical problems; hardly a
> week goes by without a doctor visit. She also has conditions CAUSED
> by doctors, including chronic infections she got during dozens of
> hospital stays. The progressively stronger antibiotics she's taken
> for five years have destroyed her immune system. I think it's safe to
> say she may die of too much medical care.
> I started out assuming that my lifelong lack of health insurance would
> be health-threatening, but so far it's been a blessing in disguise.
> 20 years ago I had a very scary heart episode that lasted a week, but
> was too poverty-stricken to go to a doctor, and too young to be
> scared. The problem went away and never came back. If I'd gone to a
> doctor, I would doubtless have been put on some heavy-duty pills and
> told to limit my activity, for no reason. I admit I was lucky.
> I've also seen enough examples of doctor inconsistency to sow some
> doubt. The latest was two relatives with tick bites. Both got the
> tick off in a couple hours, head and all. One went to a doctor and
> was given a long course of antibiotics. The other was told what the
> literature says--if you get the whole tick out within 24 hours, the
> chance of getting lyme disease is astronomically small, and no
> treatment is warranted. Most of us know people who died because some
> doctor wouldn't admit his ignorance.
> Only time will tell if I win my gamble of trying to make it to age 65
> (and Medicare) without a ruinous medical bill. But so far, I'm better
> off than my mom was at my age, when she started losing her game of
> doctor roulette.
> Of course doctors have their place, and yes, their jobs are hard. I'm
> not saying we should doubt everything doctors say, or to avoid them
> when something's wrong. I believe they really want to help us, but
> sometimes we expect too much from them. And we need to take more
> responsibility for maintaining our own health. No doctor can know us
> as well as we know ourselves.
> Les

good points, les.

i don't expect doctors to be gods, i just don't appreciate it when
they act like they are. incompetency doesn't help matters either.

coincidently, today would have been my mother's 75th birthday. she
died 19 years ago from a massive stroke. her long time physician
dismissed her transient ischemic attacks as a combination of
psychological issues & carpal tunnel syndrome. i don't know if she
expected too much from her doctor; i do know that she trusted him & so
desperately wanted to believe that what was happening to her was
nothing serious. she hadn't taken good care of herself; she wouldn't
get a second opinion even though my father had had a stroke a few
years earlier, complete with similar tias.

i have chronic health issues. it's taken me a long time to know &
trust myself & to take responsibility for all areas of my life,
especially my health. i'm still learning & i realize that there have
been & may continue to be areas in which there are no clear answers.
but it would be such a help to have a respectful & competent health
care partner to assist me in the process of trying to live as well as
i possibly can.

& i think i remember a motto about "first do no harm."

physician certified 'pmdd'babe,
possibly peribabe,
hope-to-be menobabe,
ellen

JustGB <gettingbttr@gmail.com> wrote in news:1185085206.529086.93200@
57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com:

> On Jul 22, 1:14 am, Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpamm...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> 90,000 people die every year of 'medical misadventure' in hospitals.
>> That doesn't even count the number of people who die from prescribed
>> drugs. More than half of all liver transplants are necessitated by
>> patients taking meds that were properly prescribed and properly taken.
>>
>
> Proportions! Although the number of deaths from medical misadventure
> I found was even more than what you found, 98,000, it still represents
> about 1 person in 2,775 or 0.04%. I will take my chances with doctors
> and hospitals when I need them. I think our chances are not so bad
> with doctors and hospitals when we need them.

Well, that's the ticket, isn't it? When we need them. The problem IMO
is that doctors only make money if you keep coming back. We don't know
if what they're recommending is really necessary.

Who was it that said a doctor may have to cut off your leg, but you're a
fool if you give him an incentive to do so.

Chak


--
Ninety-Ninety Law: The first 90% of the code accounts for the first 90%
of the development time. The remaining 10% of the code accounts for the
other 90% of the development time.

On Jul 22, 3:54 pm, Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpamm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Crone Power!
Chak, glad you brought up the issue of prescriptions. Several elders
I know are taking inappropriate high blood pressure meds. They drag
through the day, registering low blood pressure on their hand-held
units, but don't dare stop their pills because some MD prescribed
them. I say why don't you at least cut them in half, but they just
can't do it. My mom presently takes 15 prescriptions, 33 pills a
day. Several years ago, after a trans ischemic stroke, some doctor
took her off all her pills for a while, and she didn't die. Now she's
back on them.
A friend told me about his 85 year old mother, taking a handful of
prescriptions each day and feeling sick and miserable. She decided to
commit suicide by stopping all her pills at once, on the same day. A
week later she had a new lease on life, never took another pill, and
felt great several years later.
I agree that doctors can be great partners. I do my own research, and
then go to my GP with proposals to help her help me get through my
difficult menopause. She seems to welcome this approach--a good
foundation for mutual trust. It's true that sometimes you have to put
your life in their hands, but I'd have to be on death's doorstep to do
that.
Les



> JustGB <gettingb...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1185085206.529086.93200@
> 57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Jul 22, 1:14 am, Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpamm...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> 90,000 people die every year of 'medical misadventure' in hospitals.
> >> That doesn't even count the number of people who die from prescribed
> >> drugs. More than half of all liver transplants are necessitated by
> >> patients taking meds that were properly prescribed and properly taken.
>
> > Proportions! Although the number of deaths from medical misadventure
> > I found was even more than what you found, 98,000, it still represents
> > about 1 person in 2,775 or 0.04%. I will take my chances with doctors
> > and hospitals when I need them. I think our chances are not so bad
> > with doctors and hospitals when we need them.
>
> Well, that's the ticket, isn't it? When we need them. The problem IMO
> is that doctors only make money if you keep coming back. We don't know
> if what they're recommending is really necessary.
>
> Who was it that said a doctor may have to cut off your leg, but you're a
> fool if you give him an incentive to do so.
>
> Chak
>
> --
> Ninety-Ninety Law: The first 90% of the code accounts for the first 90%
> of the development time. The remaining 10% of the code accounts for the
> other 90% of the development time.

On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:33:37 -0600, FurPaw <furrealpawdog@gmail.com>
wrote:

>What do you call the person who graduates at the bottom of
>his/her medical school class?
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>Doctor.
>
I thought you were going to say "plaintiff".



Dana
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

On Jul 23, 6:03 pm, Dana© <AneeB...@ownmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:33:37 -0600, FurPaw <furrealpaw...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >What do you call the person who graduates at the bottom of
> >his/her medical school class?
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >Doctor.
>
> I thought you were going to say "plaintiff".

I'd have thought "defendant" ....

JustGB

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:51:55 -0000, JustGB <gettingbttr@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> I thought you were going to say "plaintiff".
>
>I'd have thought "defendant" ....


Yeah, you're right. I realized my mistake and thought I would just let
it go....no sense in drawing attention to my error. Thanks, GB!!
LOL!!


Dana
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

sage hen <desertnymph@cwo.com> wrote:

> A friend told me about his 85 year old mother, taking a handful of
> prescriptions each day and feeling sick and miserable. She decided to
> commit suicide by stopping all her pills at once, on the same day. A
> week later she had a new lease on life, never took another pill, and
> felt great several years later.

This is both wonderful and hilarious (and ironic)!

--
Keera in Norway * Think big. Shrink to fit.
http://home.online.no/~kafox/