[OT] Everybody knows that Hydrogen Peroxide kills bacteria in wounds...

Or does it?

According to this article, no... and the study was done 20 years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/health/19real.html

"...does hydrogen peroxide really make a difference?

"According to most studies of its effectiveness, not really.
Parents and school nurses might insist otherwise, but researchers
have found that hydrogen peroxide has little ability to reduce
bacteria in wounds and can actually inflame healthy skin cells
that surround a cut or a scrape, increasing the amount of time
wounds take to heal. "

Bacitracin works better (that's typically one of active
ingredient in antibiotic ointments, like Neosporin).

H2O2 can help dislodge dirt, debris and dead tissue.

Another medical myth put to rest by evidence.

(My experience is consistent with this.)

FurPaw

--
The Bush legacy - no child left a dime.

To reply, unleash the dog.

x-no-archive: yes

FurPaw wrote:
>
> Or does it?
>
> According to this article, no... and the study was done 20 years ago.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/health/19real.html
>
> "...does hydrogen peroxide really make a difference?
>
> "According to most studies of its effectiveness, not really. Parents and
> school nurses might insist otherwise, but researchers have found that
> hydrogen peroxide has little ability to reduce bacteria in wounds and
> can actually inflame healthy skin cells that surround a cut or a scrape,
> increasing the amount of time wounds take to heal. "
>
> Bacitracin works better (that's typically one of active ingredient in
> antibiotic ointments, like Neosporin).
>
> H2O2 can help dislodge dirt, debris and dead tissue.
>
> Another medical myth put to rest by evidence.
>
> (My experience is consistent with this.)
>
> FurPaw
>

I never thought it killed germs, but it sure cleans things out.

Some of us chronic sinus sufferers irrigate with it in saline solution
for cleaning stuff out and for debridment.

Susan

FurPaw <furrealpawdog@gmail.com> wrote in
news:jZqdnUx1q4fmXeTbnZ2dnUVZ_sapnZ2d@comcast.com:

> H2O2 can help dislodge dirt, debris and dead tissue.
>

I expect that's where hydrogen peroxide's reputed ability to kill germs
comes from - it cleans the wound of dirt.

Chak

--
Because we don't think about future generations, they will never forget us.
--Henrik Tikkanen

"Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpammers@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9955DDA23D144chakolatehotmailcom@207.115.1 7.102...
> FurPaw <furrealpawdog@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:jZqdnUx1q4fmXeTbnZ2dnUVZ_sapnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>> H2O2 can help dislodge dirt, debris and dead tissue.
>>
>
> I expect that's where hydrogen peroxide's reputed ability to kill germs
> comes from - it cleans the wound of dirt.

Whereas I'd say it's because of the fizzing.

Cathy

FurPaw wrote:
>
> Or does it?
>
> According to this article, no... and the study was done 20 years ago.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/health/19real.html
>
> "...does hydrogen peroxide really make a difference?
>
> "According to most studies of its effectiveness, not really. Parents and
> school nurses might insist otherwise, but researchers have found that
> hydrogen peroxide has little ability to reduce bacteria in wounds and
> can actually inflame healthy skin cells that surround a cut or a scrape,
> increasing the amount of time wounds take to heal. "
>
> Bacitracin works better (that's typically one of active ingredient in
> antibiotic ointments, like Neosporin).
>
> H2O2 can help dislodge dirt, debris and dead tissue.
>
> Another medical myth put to rest by evidence.
>
> (My experience is consistent with this.)
>
> FurPaw
>

I do think peroxide kils germs on a toothbrush! DH had a
near-constant gum infection problem, with accompanying
headaches, till he started storing his brush in a peroxide cup.
The frequency for him went down to 3-4 gum infections
a year. I only had about that many anyway, but storing the
brush in the peroxide reduced them to very rare things.

I dunno why. Type of bacteria? Or that it works better on
unchecked germ growth on an inanimate object, than it does in
living tissue that has an immune system fighting the bacteria?


--
pax,
ruth


Save trees AND money! Buy used books!
http://stores.ebay.com/Noir-and-More-Books-and-Trains

"nickelshrink" <nickelshrink@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5du7nrF35p8o4U1@mid.individual.net...
> FurPaw wrote:
>>
>> Or does it?
>>
>> According to this article, no... and the study was done 20 years ago.
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/health/19real.html
>>
>> "...does hydrogen peroxide really make a difference?
>>
>> "According to most studies of its effectiveness, not really. Parents and
>> school nurses might insist otherwise, but researchers have found that
>> hydrogen peroxide has little ability to reduce bacteria in wounds and can
>> actually inflame healthy skin cells that surround a cut or a scrape,
>> increasing the amount of time wounds take to heal. "
>>
>> Bacitracin works better (that's typically one of active ingredient in
>> antibiotic ointments, like Neosporin).
>>
>> H2O2 can help dislodge dirt, debris and dead tissue.
>>
>> Another medical myth put to rest by evidence.
>>
>> (My experience is consistent with this.)
>>
>> FurPaw
>>
>
> I do think peroxide kils germs on a toothbrush! DH had a
> near-constant gum infection problem, with accompanying
> headaches, till he started storing his brush in a peroxide cup.
> The frequency for him went down to 3-4 gum infections
> a year. I only had about that many anyway, but storing the
> brush in the peroxide reduced them to very rare things.
>
> I dunno why. Type of bacteria? Or that it works better on
> unchecked germ growth on an inanimate object, than it does in
> living tissue that has an immune system fighting the bacteria?

Personally, I also think it does kill bacteria, based on when I've used it
on little localized infections - which quickly cleared up after using
hydrogen peroxide.

Cathy

>
>
> --
> pax,
> ruth
>
>
> Save trees AND money! Buy used books!
> http://stores.ebay.com/Noir-and-More-Books-and-Trains

Cathy F. <clfr@adelphiadotdedot.net> wrote:

> "nickelshrink" <nickelshrink@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5du7nrF35p8o4U1@mid.individual.net...
> > I do think peroxide kils germs on a toothbrush! DH had a
> > near-constant gum infection problem, with accompanying
> > headaches, till he started storing his brush in a peroxide cup.
> > The frequency for him went down to 3-4 gum infections
> > a year. I only had about that many anyway, but storing the
> > brush in the peroxide reduced them to very rare things.
> >
> > I dunno why. Type of bacteria? Or that it works better on
> > unchecked germ growth on an inanimate object, than it does in
> > living tissue that has an immune system fighting the bacteria?
>
> Personally, I also think it does kill bacteria, based on when I've used it
> on little localized infections - which quickly cleared up after using
> hydrogen peroxide.

It could be mechanics: Keeping a surface so clean (or unexposed to air)
there's nothing for the bacteria to grow on.

--
Keera in Norway * Think big. Shrink to fit.
http://home.online.no/~kafox/

On Jun 21, 3:37 am, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>
> FurPaw wrote:
>
> > Or does it?
>
> > According to this article, no... and the study was done 20 years ago.
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/health/19real.html
>
> > "...does hydrogen peroxide really make a difference?
>
> > "According to most studies of its effectiveness, not really. Parents and
> > school nurses might insist otherwise, but researchers have found that
> > hydrogen peroxide has little ability to reduce bacteria in wounds and
> > can actually inflame healthy skin cells that surround a cut or a scrape,
> > increasing the amount of time wounds take to heal. "
>
> > Bacitracin works better (that's typically one of active ingredient in
> > antibiotic ointments, like Neosporin).
>
> > H2O2 can help dislodge dirt, debris and dead tissue.
>
> > Another medical myth put to rest by evidence.
>
> > (My experience is consistent with this.)
>
> > FurPaw
>
> I never thought it killed germs, but it sure cleans things out.
>
> Some of us chronic sinus sufferers irrigate with it in saline solution
> for cleaning stuff out and for debridment.
>

I used to use h2o2 with water to gargle in the days when I got strep
throat 3-4 times a year. It worked wonders (along with the
antibiotics, of course). Made recovery very quick.

And just in case anyone is wondering, I cured my strep throats
completely by stopping smoking.... :-) I've had no need for h2o2
since.

JustGB

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:36:50 +0200, thinkbig.shrinktofit@online.no
(Keera Ann Fox) wrote:

>Cathy F. <clfr@adelphiadotdedot.net> wrote:
>
>> "nickelshrink" <nickelshrink@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:5du7nrF35p8o4U1@mid.individual.net...
>> > I do think peroxide kils germs on a toothbrush! DH had a
>> > near-constant gum infection problem, with accompanying
>> > headaches, till he started storing his brush in a peroxide cup.
>> > The frequency for him went down to 3-4 gum infections
>> > a year. I only had about that many anyway, but storing the
>> > brush in the peroxide reduced them to very rare things.
>> >
>> > I dunno why. Type of bacteria? Or that it works better on
>> > unchecked germ growth on an inanimate object, than it does in
>> > living tissue that has an immune system fighting the bacteria?
>>
>> Personally, I also think it does kill bacteria, based on when I've used it
>> on little localized infections - which quickly cleared up after using
>> hydrogen peroxide.
>
>It could be mechanics: Keeping a surface so clean (or unexposed to air)
>there's nothing for the bacteria to grow on.

An overdose of O2 kills just as well.

R

Ratatosk,Jola
--

If you need to e-mail me, replace "don'tbother" with "zedicus"

Evidence for the assertion that H2O2 isn't as effective as folks
think comes from this journal article:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yrv4rg

The abstract itself doesn't mention which antiseptics were used,
so I expect that the NY Times author has access to the full article.

"Contaminated blister wounds treated with the triple antibiotic
ointment healed significantly faster (mean nine days) than wounds
treated with any antiseptic and those receiving no treatment.
Only the neomycin-polymyxin B-bacitracin combination effectively
eliminated bacterial contamination of the wounds after two
applications (within 16 to 24 hours after contamination with
Staphylococcus aureus). The overall clinical appearance and
healing rates of wounds treated with the triple antibiotic were
ranked superior to all treatments (and no treatment) except the
other antibiotic ointment in the study."

FurPaw

FurPaw wrote:
>
> Or does it?
>
> According to this article, no... and the study was done 20 years ago.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/health/19real.html
>
> "...does hydrogen peroxide really make a difference?
>
> "According to most studies of its effectiveness, not really. Parents and
> school nurses might insist otherwise, but researchers have found that
> hydrogen peroxide has little ability to reduce bacteria in wounds and
> can actually inflame healthy skin cells that surround a cut or a scrape,
> increasing the amount of time wounds take to heal. "
>
> Bacitracin works better (that's typically one of active ingredient in
> antibiotic ointments, like Neosporin).
>
> H2O2 can help dislodge dirt, debris and dead tissue.
>
> Another medical myth put to rest by evidence.
>
> (My experience is consistent with this.)

--
The Bush legacy - no child left a dime.

To reply, unleash the dog.

FurPaw wrote:
>
> Or does it?
>
> According to this article, no... and the study was done 20 years ago.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/health/19real.html
>
> "...does hydrogen peroxide really make a difference?
>
> "According to most studies of its effectiveness, not really. Parents and
> school nurses might insist otherwise, but researchers have found that
> hydrogen peroxide has little ability to reduce bacteria in wounds and
> can actually inflame healthy skin cells that surround a cut or a scrape,
> increasing the amount of time wounds take to heal. "
>
> Bacitracin works better (that's typically one of active ingredient in
> antibiotic ointments, like Neosporin).
>
> H2O2 can help dislodge dirt, debris and dead tissue.
>
> Another medical myth put to rest by evidence.
>
> (My experience is consistent with this.)
>
> FurPaw
>


I was somewhat ....... surprised ..... when I first encountered the idea
of pouring peroxide into wounds in the US. Here it's used for getting
stains out of your laundry, but most people would avoid getting it on
their skin.


--
Jette Goldie
jette@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)

Jette wrote:
> FurPaw wrote:

> I was somewhat ....... surprised ..... when I first encountered the idea
> of pouring peroxide into wounds in the US. Here it's used for getting
> stains out of your laundry, but most people would avoid getting it on
> their skin.

Those bubbles just have to be DOING something, don't they?
Actually, from what I've read (though I haven't seen studies) the
current thinking is that while it can be effective for cleaning
the wound - the bubbles may help dislodge dirt - it actually
irritates the skin and hence several medical sites recommend not
using it, along with other old remedies like iodine.

It's also used to induce vomiting here. I used it on my dogs
after they had eaten a pound of baker's chocolate, which I'd
stupidly left in a grocery bag on the floor. It works.

FurPaw

--
The Bush legacy - no child left a dime.

To reply, unleash the dog.

FurPaw wrote:
> Jette wrote:
>> FurPaw wrote:
>
>> I was somewhat ....... surprised ..... when I first encountered the
>> idea of pouring peroxide into wounds in the US. Here it's used for
>> getting stains out of your laundry, but most people would avoid
>> getting it on their skin.
>
> Those bubbles just have to be DOING something, don't they? Actually,
> from what I've read (though I haven't seen studies) the current thinking
> is that while it can be effective for cleaning the wound - the bubbles
> may help dislodge dirt - it actually irritates the skin and hence
> several medical sites recommend not using it, along with other old
> remedies like iodine.
>


I use a hydrogen peroxide based laundry bleach. VERY good at those ...
uh ... "awkward biological" stains, but if I get it on my fingers while
I'm dosing the laundry, it makes the top layer of skin go white and
slough off - burns it off, in effect.

Therefore, it AIN'T going in any open wounds *I* have!


--
Jette Goldie
jette@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)

nickelshrink <nickelshrink@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I do think peroxide kils germs on a toothbrush! DH had a
> near-constant gum infection problem, with accompanying
> headaches, till he started storing his brush in a peroxide cup.
> The frequency for him went down to 3-4 gum infections
> a year. I only had about that many anyway, but storing the
> brush in the peroxide reduced them to very rare things.
>
> I dunno why. Type of bacteria? Or that it works better on
> unchecked germ growth on an inanimate object, than it does in
> living tissue that has an immune system fighting the bacteria?
>

I think peroxide does kill germs, but it isn't as useful on a wound
because it doesn't stay put and keep killing germs like an ointment
does. But it would be perfect for a toothbrush, where it won't irritate
skin, it can be kept there for a while, and you don't want any ointment.

Jette <bosslady@scotlandmail.com> wrote in news:NCxei.9331$p8.1488
@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

> I use a hydrogen peroxide based laundry bleach. VERY good at those ...
> uh ... "awkward biological" stains, but if I get it on my fingers while
> I'm dosing the laundry, it makes the top layer of skin go white and
> slough off - burns it off, in effect.
>

Good heavens, what else is in it? Hydrogen peroxide is just water with
extra oxygen. In the US, it's most often used as a gargle.

Oh, wait - what strength is that? I think most of what's labelled as
hydrogen peroxide in the US is a 3% solution. Is yours stronger?

Chak

--
Because we don't think about future generations, they will never forget
us.
--Henrik Tikkanen

Chakolate wrote:
> Jette <bosslady@scotlandmail.com> wrote in news:NCxei.9331$p8.1488
> @text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
>> I use a hydrogen peroxide based laundry bleach. VERY good at those ...
>> uh ... "awkward biological" stains, but if I get it on my fingers while
>> I'm dosing the laundry, it makes the top layer of skin go white and
>> slough off - burns it off, in effect.
>>
>
> Good heavens, what else is in it? Hydrogen peroxide is just water with
> extra oxygen. In the US, it's most often used as a gargle.
>
> Oh, wait - what strength is that? I think most of what's labelled as
> hydrogen peroxide in the US is a 3% solution. Is yours stronger?
>

No idea - but if you wanted to buy a hydrogen peroxide solution *other*
than commercially mixed laundry bleach, you'd probably have to get it
either from a pharmacist or a chemical supply company. You can't walk
around Boots (big drug store) and pick it up off the shelves.


--
Jette Goldie
jette@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)

Jette wrote:
> Chakolate wrote:
>> Jette <bosslady@scotlandmail.com> wrote in news:NCxei.9331$p8.1488
>> @text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
>>
>>> I use a hydrogen peroxide based laundry bleach. VERY good at those
>>> ... uh ... "awkward biological" stains, but if I get it on my fingers
>>> while I'm dosing the laundry, it makes the top layer of skin go white
>>> and slough off - burns it off, in effect.
>>>
>>
>> Good heavens, what else is in it? Hydrogen peroxide is just water
>> with extra oxygen. In the US, it's most often used as a gargle.
>> Oh, wait - what strength is that? I think most of what's labelled as
>> hydrogen peroxide in the US is a 3% solution. Is yours stronger?
>>
>
> No idea - but if you wanted to buy a hydrogen peroxide solution *other*
> than commercially mixed laundry bleach, you'd probably have to get it
> either from a pharmacist or a chemical supply company. You can't walk
> around Boots (big drug store) and pick it up off the shelves.
>
>

Oh yeah, you can get it in a gel form for whitening teeth - to be used
with moulds that fit over your teeth and gums. All the packages I've
seen of products that contain it have big "Toxic" or "Caustic" warnings
on them (if used incorrectly).


--
Jette Goldie
jette@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)

FurPaw wrote the following on 6/21/2007 12:10 PM:

> It's also used to induce vomiting here. I used it on my dogs
> after they had eaten a pound of baker's chocolate, which I'd
> stupidly left in a grocery bag on the floor. It works.

If that was the brand name, your dog was doing you a favor. :-) There are
much better cooking chocolates than the common supermarket brands.

Karen R.

Karen R. wrote:
> FurPaw wrote the following on 6/21/2007 12:10 PM:
>
>> It's also used to induce vomiting here. I used it on my dogs after
>> they had eaten a pound of baker's chocolate, which I'd stupidly left
>> in a grocery bag on the floor. It works.
>
> If that was the brand name, your dog was doing you a favor. :-) There
> are much better cooking chocolates than the common supermarket brands.

Let's see... why did we buy Baker's chocolate? IIRC,
Hubster was planning on using it to cook something for his
family, and they can't tell the difference. He'd learned a long
time ago not to spend the extra money on them. :-(

FurPaw

--
The Bush legacy - no child left a dime.

To reply, unleash the dog.

FurPaw wrote the following on 6/21/2007 2:54 PM:
> Karen R. wrote:
>> FurPaw wrote the following on 6/21/2007 12:10 PM:
>>
>>> It's also used to induce vomiting here. I used it on my dogs after
>>> they had eaten a pound of baker's chocolate, which I'd stupidly left
>>> in a grocery bag on the floor. It works.
>> If that was the brand name, your dog was doing you a favor. :-) There
>> are much better cooking chocolates than the common supermarket brands.
>
> Let's see... why did we buy Baker's chocolate? IIRC,
> Hubster was planning on using it to cook something for his
> family, and they can't tell the difference. He'd learned a long
> time ago not to spend the extra money on them. :-(

That makes sense. Though I have found that if I buy my chocolate in bulk
(dark chocolate, stored properly, actually improves with age, and I use
it up within the recommended two years) the per pound cost is less than
Baker's. Not being able to tell the difference; sad, that. :-)

Karen

x-no-archive: yes

FurPaw wrote:

> Let's see... why did we buy Baker's chocolate? IIRC,
> Hubster was planning on using it to cook something for his family, and
> they can't tell the difference. He'd learned a long time ago not to
> spend the extra money on them. :-(

I got a KILLER brownie recipe (very moderate carb) from my box of
Scharfen Berger bittersweet. Better the next day, texturewise.
Only calls for a 1/3 cup of flour, and I sub CarbSense bake mix and
lower the sweetener called for and use erythritol in its place with no
flavor compromise at all.

It's a workout to make, a lot more stirring than most, emotionally,
spiritually and physically :-)

Robert's Fudgy Brownies

Ingredients:

8 oz. Scharffenberger 70% bittersweet chocolate, chopped
6 TBS unsalted butter, cubed, plus extra for pan
1/4 tsp. salt
1/4 tsp. vanilla extract (optional)
1 scant cup sugar (I used erythritol, and the brownies were too sweet
for my dark chocolate loving taste, so I'd cut it to 3/4 or 2/3 Cup next
time)
2 large eggs
1/3 cup all purpose flour (I substitute CarbSense bake mix)
1/2 to 1 Cup chopped nuts (optional)

Method:

1. Adjust a rack 1/3 from the bottom of the oven and preheat to 350 F.
Butter an 8 x 8 inch pan (I used Pam) and line with parchment (I didn't)

2. Place the chocolate and butter in a large stainless steel bowl and
place over a pan of gently simmering water. Stir occasionally until
melted and smooth. Remove from heat.

3. Beat the salt, vanilla (if using) and sugar into the melted
chocolate mixture. Beat in the eggs, one at a time. Add the flour and
mix th batter vigorously until it becomes very shiny and pulls away from
the sides of the bowl *(This may take more time and more vigorous mixing
than you are accustomed to when making brownies, but it is critical to
the success of this recipe; depending on how vigorously you mix, it
could take up to several minutes* [Author Quote]) Stir in the nuts, if
using. Turn the mixture into the prepared pan and bake until a
toothpick inserted in the center comes out moist, but free of batter;
about 30-40 minutes. Cool on a rack.

That's it. More work than I recall from past brownie making, but an
amazingly rich, chocolatey brownie. Recipe originally from Maida
Heater's "Great Desserts." I make Tom beat it using a whisk, it comes
out kind of thick and stiff a batter this way.

Susan

Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpammers@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jette <bosslady@scotlandmail.com> wrote in news:NCxei.9331$p8.1488
> @text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> > I use a hydrogen peroxide based laundry bleach. VERY good at those ...
> > uh ... "awkward biological" stains, but if I get it on my fingers while
> > I'm dosing the laundry, it makes the top layer of skin go white and
> > slough off - burns it off, in effect.
>
> Good heavens, what else is in it? Hydrogen peroxide is just water with
> extra oxygen. In the US, it's most often used as a gargle.

And it used to be used to bleach hair.

> Oh, wait - what strength is that? I think most of what's labelled as
> hydrogen peroxide in the US is a 3% solution. Is yours stronger?

If it's a household cleaner, probably. I use the stuff as an alternative
to bleach. My bottle says "< 5%".

--
Keera in Norway * Think big. Shrink to fit.
http://home.online.no/~kafox/

Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> FurPaw wrote:
>
>> Let's see... why did we buy Baker's chocolate? IIRC,
>> Hubster was planning on using it to cook something for his family, and
>> they can't tell the difference. He'd learned a long time ago not to
>> spend the extra money on them. :-(
>
> I got a KILLER brownie recipe (very moderate carb) from my box of
> Scharfen Berger bittersweet. Better the next day, texturewise.
> Only calls for a 1/3 cup of flour, and I sub CarbSense bake mix and
> lower the sweetener called for and use erythritol in its place with no
> flavor compromise at all.
>
> It's a workout to make, a lot more stirring than most, emotionally,
> spiritually and physically :-)
>
> Robert's Fudgy Brownies
>
> Ingredients:
>
> 8 oz. Scharffenberger 70% bittersweet chocolate, chopped
> 6 TBS unsalted butter, cubed, plus extra for pan
> 1/4 tsp. salt
> 1/4 tsp. vanilla extract (optional)
> 1 scant cup sugar (I used erythritol, and the brownies were too sweet
> for my dark chocolate loving taste, so I'd cut it to 3/4 or 2/3 Cup next
> time)
> 2 large eggs
> 1/3 cup all purpose flour (I substitute CarbSense bake mix)
> 1/2 to 1 Cup chopped nuts (optional)
>
> Method:
>
> 1. Adjust a rack 1/3 from the bottom of the oven and preheat to 350 F.
> Butter an 8 x 8 inch pan (I used Pam) and line with parchment (I didn't)
>
> 2. Place the chocolate and butter in a large stainless steel bowl and
> place over a pan of gently simmering water. Stir occasionally until
> melted and smooth. Remove from heat.
>
> 3. Beat the salt, vanilla (if using) and sugar into the melted
> chocolate mixture. Beat in the eggs, one at a time. Add the flour and
> mix th batter vigorously until it becomes very shiny and pulls away from
> the sides of the bowl *(This may take more time and more vigorous mixing
> than you are accustomed to when making brownies, but it is critical to
> the success of this recipe; depending on how vigorously you mix, it
> could take up to several minutes* [Author Quote]) Stir in the nuts, if
> using. Turn the mixture into the prepared pan and bake until a
> toothpick inserted in the center comes out moist, but free of batter;
> about 30-40 minutes. Cool on a rack.
>
> That's it. More work than I recall from past brownie making, but an
> amazingly rich, chocolatey brownie. Recipe originally from Maida
> Heater's "Great Desserts." I make Tom beat it using a whisk, it comes
> out kind of thick and stiff a batter this way.
>
> Susan
>


Wooo! THANK you. I'm gonna try this. I've been struggling to
find a way to make decent low carb cookies. Got two bags full
that i made yesterday, which DH says are OK, but taste like
astroturf to me.

8~)

--
pax,
ruth


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x-no-archive: yes

nickelshrink wrote:

> Wooo! THANK you. I'm gonna try this. I've been struggling to
> find a way to make decent low carb cookies. Got two bags full
> that i made yesterday, which DH says are OK, but taste like
> astroturf to me.
>
>
I haven't used it to make cookies, but CarbSense bake mix is the only LC
one so far that doesn't disgust me, or taste like soy flavored sand.

I plan to try making a carrot cake with it, but don't dare now, since
I'm trying not to eat.

I gave away all my larger clothes, and cortisol is driving my weight up
again, even without my pigging out.

Susan

"Jette" <bosslady@scotlandmail.com> wrote in message
news:NCxei.9331$p8.1488@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk ...
> FurPaw wrote:
>> Jette wrote:
>>> FurPaw wrote:
>>
>>> I was somewhat ....... surprised ..... when I first encountered the idea
>>> of pouring peroxide into wounds in the US. Here it's used for getting
>>> stains out of your laundry, but most people would avoid getting it on
>>> their skin.
>>
>> Those bubbles just have to be DOING something, don't they? Actually, from
>> what I've read (though I haven't seen studies) the current thinking is
>> that while it can be effective for cleaning the wound - the bubbles may
>> help dislodge dirt - it actually irritates the skin and hence several
>> medical sites recommend not using it, along with other old remedies like
>> iodine.
>>
>
>
> I use a hydrogen peroxide based laundry bleach. VERY good at those ... uh
> ... "awkward biological" stains, but if I get it on my fingers while I'm
> dosing the laundry, it makes the top layer of skin go white and slough
> off - burns it off, in effect.
>
> Therefore, it AIN'T going in any open wounds *I* have!

A different strength then, probably? The stuff I have/use (on myself - not
laundry) is a 3% solution.

Cathy


>
>
> --
> Jette Goldie
> jette@blueyonder.co.uk
> http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
> http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
> ("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)

Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpammers@gmail.com> wrote:
> FurPaw <furrealpawdog@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:jZqdnUx1q4fmXeTbnZ2dnUVZ_sapnZ2d@comcast.com:

>> H2O2 can help dislodge dirt, debris and dead tissue.

> I expect that's where hydrogen peroxide's reputed ability to kill germs
> comes from - it cleans the wound of dirt.

It's a powerful oxidant, hence it has sterilising tendencies. Not only
does it kill germs, but it's strong enough to impede the healing
process by damaging the local cells. However, since in doing so it
simply becomes pure water it's rather less harmful to the healing
process than most sterilising agents (e.g bleach or iodine). It's
special usefulness on wounds, however, is that being an oxidant it
clots blood quickly. If you apply a strong solution of H2O2 to blood
you can watch it fizz and solidify into a scab.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

ratatosk <ratatosk@don'tbother.tweakdsl.nl> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:36:50 +0200, thinkbig.shrinktofit@online.no
> (Keera Ann Fox) wrote:

>>Cathy F. <clfr@adelphiadotdedot.net> wrote:
>>
>>> "nickelshrink" <nickelshrink@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:5du7nrF35p8o4U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> > I do think peroxide kils germs on a toothbrush! DH had a
>>> > near-constant gum infection problem, with accompanying
>>> > headaches, till he started storing his brush in a peroxide cup.
>>> > The frequency for him went down to 3-4 gum infections
>>> > a year. I only had about that many anyway, but storing the
>>> > brush in the peroxide reduced them to very rare things.
>>> >
>>> > I dunno why. Type of bacteria? Or that it works better on
>>> > unchecked germ growth on an inanimate object, than it does in
>>> > living tissue that has an immune system fighting the bacteria?
>>>
>>> Personally, I also think it does kill bacteria, based on when I've used it
>>> on little localized infections - which quickly cleared up after using
>>> hydrogen peroxide.
>>
>>It could be mechanics: Keeping a surface so clean (or unexposed to air)
>>there's nothing for the bacteria to grow on.

> An overdose of O2 kills just as well.

Not quite as well, since H2O2 releases the very much more active
monatomic oxygen.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Emma Anne <emma_anne@mac.com> wrote:
> nickelshrink <nickelshrink@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> I do think peroxide kils germs on a toothbrush! DH had a
>> near-constant gum infection problem, with accompanying
>> headaches, till he started storing his brush in a peroxide cup.
>> The frequency for him went down to 3-4 gum infections
>> a year. I only had about that many anyway, but storing the
>> brush in the peroxide reduced them to very rare things.
>>
>> I dunno why. Type of bacteria? Or that it works better on
>> unchecked germ growth on an inanimate object, than it does in
>> living tissue that has an immune system fighting the bacteria?

> I think peroxide does kill germs, but it isn't as useful on a wound
> because it doesn't stay put and keep killing germs like an ointment
> does. But it would be perfect for a toothbrush, where it won't irritate
> skin, it can be kept there for a while, and you don't want any ointment.

When exposed to the air it gives up its oxygen quite quickly and
becomes inactive. Its activity is temporary and only when fresh.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

In article <1P2dnejOcPxxP-fbnZ2dnUVZ_tWhnZ2d@comcast.com>,
FurPaw <furrealpawdog@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jette wrote:
> > FurPaw wrote:
>
> > I was somewhat ....... surprised ..... when I first encountered the idea
> > of pouring peroxide into wounds in the US. Here it's used for getting
> > stains out of your laundry, but most people would avoid getting it on
> > their skin.
>
> Those bubbles just have to be DOING something, don't they?
> Actually, from what I've read (though I haven't seen studies) the
> current thinking is that while it can be effective for cleaning
> the wound - the bubbles may help dislodge dirt - it actually
> irritates the skin and hence several medical sites recommend not
> using it, along with other old remedies like iodine.
>
> It's also used to induce vomiting here. I used it on my dogs
> after they had eaten a pound of baker's chocolate, which I'd
> stupidly left in a grocery bag on the floor. It works.

How did you get them to drink it? Or is the image better left unformed?

Priscilla

In article <5e00ljF362lk7U1@mid.individual.net>,
Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes
>
> FurPaw wrote:
>
> > Let's see... why did we buy Baker's chocolate? IIRC,
> > Hubster was planning on using it to cook something for his family, and
> > they can't tell the difference. He'd learned a long time ago not to
> > spend the extra money on them. :-(
>
> I got a KILLER brownie recipe (very moderate carb) from my box of
> Scharfen Berger bittersweet. Better the next day, texturewise.
> Only calls for a 1/3 cup of flour, and I sub CarbSense bake mix and
> lower the sweetener called for and use erythritol in its place with no
> flavor compromise at all.
>
> It's a workout to make, a lot more stirring than most, emotionally,
> spiritually and physically :-)
>
> Robert's Fudgy Brownies
>
> Ingredients:
>
> 8 oz. Scharffenberger 70% bittersweet chocolate, chopped
> 6 TBS unsalted butter, cubed, plus extra for pan
> 1/4 tsp. salt
> 1/4 tsp. vanilla extract (optional)
> 1 scant cup sugar (I used erythritol, and the brownies were too sweet
> for my dark chocolate loving taste, so I'd cut it to 3/4 or 2/3 Cup next
> time)
> 2 large eggs
> 1/3 cup all purpose flour (I substitute CarbSense bake mix)
> 1/2 to 1 Cup chopped nuts (optional)
>
> Method:
>
> 1. Adjust a rack 1/3 from the bottom of the oven and preheat to 350 F.
> Butter an 8 x 8 inch pan (I used Pam) and line with parchment (I didn't)
>
> 2. Place the chocolate and butter in a large stainless steel bowl and
> place over a pan of gently simmering water. Stir occasionally until
> melted and smooth. Remove from heat.
>
> 3. Beat the salt, vanilla (if using) and sugar into the melted
> chocolate mixture. Beat in the eggs, one at a time. Add the flour and
> mix th batter vigorously until it becomes very shiny and pulls away from
> the sides of the bowl *(This may take more time and more vigorous mixing
> than you are accustomed to when making brownies, but it is critical to
> the success of this recipe; depending on how vigorously you mix, it
> could take up to several minutes* [Author Quote]) Stir in the nuts, if
> using. Turn the mixture into the prepared pan and bake until a
> toothpick inserted in the center comes out moist, but free of batter;
> about 30-40 minutes. Cool on a rack.
>
> That's it. More work than I recall from past brownie making, but an
> amazingly rich, chocolatey brownie. Recipe originally from Maida
> Heater's "Great Desserts." I make Tom beat it using a whisk, it comes
> out kind of thick and stiff a batter this way.

Thanks for the recipe! Does it not come out right if one uses one's
Kitchenaid?

Priscilla

x-no-archive: yes

Priscilla H. Ballou wrote:

> Thanks for the recipe! Does it not come out right if one uses one's
> Kitchenaid?

I don't know. Brownies are usually mixed by hand, and from the way it
was written, I'd assumed that these should be. OTOH, since a whish
worked so well, you could try low speed mixing.

Susan

Priscilla H. Ballou wrote:

>> It's [hyrdorgen peroxide] also used to induce vomiting here. I used it on my dogs
>> after they had eaten a pound of baker's chocolate, which I'd
>> stupidly left in a grocery bag on the floor. It works.
>
> How did you get them to drink it? Or is the image better left unformed?

If you prefer not to find out, stop reading here...
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Turkey baster.

FurPaw
--
The Bush legacy - no child left a dime.

To reply, unleash the dog.