Possible help for hot flashes/night sweats

I've been lifting weights for about 1.5 years now to try and regain
lean muscle mass and defeat the effects of gravity While I only ate
a high protein diet to get good gains, I decided to try creatine. It's
a supplement long used by athletes and bodybuilders. It's an acid, not
a steroid, already produced by the body that aids in increasing muscle
energy. Anyway, I started taking some pre- and post-workout and none
on nonlifting days unless I did cardio. And then I just took one dose
after cardio. What I noticed after the first week was an almost
complete halt to my strong hot flashes and night sweats during the
week when I lift and a slow return of the hot stuff by the end of the
weekend when I'd only do one cardio session. Come Monday they were
back but dropped off again after my two doses for my Monday workout.
Needless to say I now take the stuff everyday. So I have 4 days at 2
doses and 3 days at 1 dose.

Creatine increases the amount of fluid pulled into muscles and
increases ATP production (muscle energy) which is why now it's looked
at for MS and other muscle wasting problems/diseases. How if affects
hot flashes is unknown to me. There are so few female bodybuilders or
other athletes at this age that this simple supp may have not been
"discovered" yet to help with hot flashes. My gyno about jumped out of
her chair when I told her.

Anyway, it's a very safe supplement to at least try. There are three
forms, monohydrate, ethyl ester, and buffered. The old school mono is
cheap and easy to find. The drawback has always been bloating. Water
gets pulled into all cells and doesn't get wholly absorbed by the
muscles. That's why there's now ethyl ester and buffered creatine.
Both aim to direct more to the muscles and limit bloating. Doses are
smaller.

I'm using a powdered ethyl ester. It tastes awful!!!! So you have to
mix it with something. A flavored drink or food. I mix it in my sweet
potatoes. Powder also allows you to customize the dose. The
recommended amount on the labels is more for a 200 pound man. It does
come in pill form.

You can check Vitamin Shoppe, GNC, etc. I buy mine from
bodybuilding .com.

A few caveats, the first week you may have some tummy distress. But
that goes away. It really is temporary. You *must* drink a good amount
of water with it and stay hydrated. As it pulls water into the
muscles, it also can affect the colon (it's just a huge smooth
muscle). If you have IBS-C it's good news. It calmed my spasms down
nicely. If you have IBS-D or suffer from diarrhea for any other
reason, be very conservative in trying this stuff.

Heck they're even looking at this stuff for alzheimers.

On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 14:23:30 -0700 (PDT), freebird@mac.com wrote:


>Heck they're even looking at this stuff for alzheimers.

Some drug companies used to say the same about estrogen for
alzheimers when promoting HRT for hot flashes.

Anyway, you might like to do a little more reading. Researchers ARE
looking at 'this stuff' and alzheimers, but not quite the way you may
be thinking.

http://www.src.wisc.edu/news/Stories/gough.12.13.05.htm

>Illuminating Alzheimer's: Research Sheds First-Ever Light on
>Creatine's Presence in Alzheimer's-Affected Brain Tissues
>
>John Morgan, Science Writer, UW Madison Synchrotron Radiation Center
>
>December 13, 2005

<small quote>

>In a recent article in the Journal of Biological Chemistry a team of Canadian
>and American scientists reports the first-ever finding of elevated levels of
>creatine--the newly discovered agent of Alzheimer's--in brain tissue.

Of course these were mice.

Kathryn

On Oct 5, 12:28*am, kathryn <kdroz...@telus.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 14:23:30 -0700 (PDT), freeb...@mac.com wrote:
> >Heck they're even looking at this stuff for alzheimers.
>
> Some drug companies *used to say the same about estrogen for
> alzheimers when promoting HRT for hot flashes.
>
> Anyway, you might like to do a little more reading. Researchers ARE
> looking at 'this stuff' and alzheimers, but not quite the way you may
> be thinking.
>
> http://www.src.wisc.edu/news/Stories/gough.12.13.05.htm
>
> >Illuminating Alzheimer's: Research Sheds First-Ever Light on
> >Creatine's Presence in Alzheimer's-Affected Brain Tissues
>
You're assuming creatine levels indicate a causitive function. Indeed
it is the opposite.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1510941
http://www.prohealth.com/library/sho...5&t=Alzheimers



> >John Morgan, Science Writer, UW Madison Synchrotron Radiation Center
>
> >December 13, 2005
>
> <small quote>
>
> >In a recent article in the Journal of Biological Chemistry a team of Canadian
> >and American scientists reports the first-ever finding of elevated levels of
> >creatine--the newly discovered agent of Alzheimer's--in brain tissue.
>
> Of course these were mice.
>
> Kathryn

On Oct 4, 2:23�pm, freeb...@mac.com wrote:
> I've been lifting weights for about 1.5 years

Well and good, but you may also want to learn about...

1 The concept of Cause and effect
2) The Placebo effect
3 Statitics, including the fact that the smaller a statistical sample,
the less reliable it is, and a stastistical sample of one is not very
reliable
4) In all those alledged "studies", Follow The Money

Your Skeptical Eunuch

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 05:19:14 -0700 (PDT), "freebird@mac.com"
<freebird@mac.com> wrote:

>On Oct 5, 12:28*am, kathryn <kdroz...@telus.net> wrote:

>> Anyway, you might like to do a little more reading. Researchers ARE
>> looking at 'this stuff' and alzheimers, but not quite the way you may
>> be thinking.
>>
>> http://www.src.wisc.edu/news/Stories/gough.12.13.05.htm
>>
>> >Illuminating Alzheimer's: Research Sheds First-Ever Light on
>> >Creatine's Presence in Alzheimer's-Affected Brain Tissues
>>

>You're assuming creatine levels indicate a causitive function. Indeed
>it is the opposite.

>http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1510941
>http://www.prohealth.com/library/sho...5&t=Alzheimers
>
I couldn't get into either of the URLS posted. I did look at the Pro
Health website - {Commerce with Compassion}? and see they mention
estrogen therapy under pharmaceutical medical treatments for
Alzheimers. More Commerce with Compassion?

Anyway that is why I'm again responding. Perhaps you are not old
enough to remember how Wyeth and other drug companies led women to
believe that while they were treating hot flashes with hormones they
were doing other wonderful things for their health, including the
prevention of Alzheimers.

I did find a major University centered review article you might like
to read on the subject of possible creatine supplementation for
Alzheimers -- pretty iffy at the moment, unless the URLs you posted
above are more recent. This article is directly from the Journal
website, click on the right to download (it's free) the full pdf of
the article:

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jbb/...35936.abs.html

>Journal of Biomedicine and Biotechnology
>Volume 2006, Article ID 35936, Pages 1–11

>Review Article
>The Creatine Kinase/Creatine Connection to Alzheimer’s
>Disease: CK Inactivation, APP-CK Complexes, and
>Focal Creatine Deposits
>Tanja S. B ¨ [et al]

Article concludes:

> Since these focal Cr microdeposits are observed in the brain of
>transgenic APP mice, as well as AD patients [73], there is a valid
>concern that supplementation with extra Cr might exacerbate
>rather than ameliorate this situation. However, as reasoned
>above, Cr, if given at an early time point of disease,
>may prevent or delay the formation of Cr deposits that are a
>consequence of cellular pathology. In any case, Cr supplementation
>should be tested first on the transgenic APP mice
>in which the Cr deposits have been found. In the long term,
>if warranted by the outcome of such tests, further trials with
>AD patients could be performed. If successful, this cheap and
>safe intervention, involving as a nutritional supplement, may
>extend a huge socioeconomic benefit by improving the quality
>of life of AD patients and lowering exploding health care
>costs.

The article [73] cited is the study previously mentioned above.

>[73] Gallant M, Rak M, Szeghalmi A, et al. Elevated levels of creatine
>detected in APP transgenic mice and Alzeimer diseases
>brain tissue. The Journal of Biological Chemistry. 2005.

>>
>> Kathryn

I'm not sure why you keep going back to estrogen therapy. Creatine is
not a hormone and has no effect on hormone levels. Nor is any
supplement company pushing creatine for anything other than athletic
performance. Even with that, and anything else, you have to find
scientific studies not sponsored by benefiting institutions to find
unbiased data.

I suspect the creatine accumulations are a by product of the body
trying to self correct. It's a key element for muscular energy but
it's not the only one. Hopefully it's a clue that will get more
attention and lead to some real improvements in treatment and
prevention.


On Oct 7, 1:01*am, kathryn <kdroz...@telus.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 05:19:14 -0700 (PDT), "freeb...@mac.com"
>
>
>
> <freeb...@mac.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 5, 12:28*am, kathryn <kdroz...@telus.net> wrote:
> >> Anyway, you might like to do a little more reading. Researchers ARE
> >> looking at 'this stuff' and alzheimers, but not quite the way you may
> >> be thinking.
>
> >>http://www.src.wisc.edu/news/Stories/gough.12.13.05.htm
>
> >> >Illuminating Alzheimer's: Research Sheds First-Ever Light on
> >> >Creatine's Presence in Alzheimer's-Affected Brain Tissues
>
> >You're assuming creatine levels indicate a causitive function. Indeed
> >it is the opposite.
> >http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1510941
> >http://www.prohealth.com/library/sho...5&t=Alzheimers
>
> I couldn't get into either of the URLS posted. I did look at the Pro
> Health website - {Commerce with Compassion}? *and see they mention
> estrogen therapy under pharmaceutical medical treatments for
> Alzheimers. More Commerce with Compassion?
>
> Anyway that is why I'm again responding. Perhaps you are not old
> enough to remember how Wyeth and other drug companies led women to
> believe that while they were treating hot flashes with hormones they
> were doing other wonderful things for their health, including the
> prevention of Alzheimers.
>
> I did find a major University centered review article you might like
> to read on the subject of possible creatine supplementation for
> Alzheimers -- pretty iffy at the moment, unless the URLs you posted
> above are more recent. This article is directly from the Journal
> website, click on the right to download (it's free) the full pdf of
> the article:
>
> http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jbb/...5936.abs.html*
>
> >Journal of Biomedicine and Biotechnology
> >Volume 2006, Article ID 35936, Pages 1–11
> >Review Article
> >The Creatine Kinase/Creatine Connection to Alzheimer’s
> >Disease: CK Inactivation, APP-CK Complexes, and
> >Focal Creatine Deposits
> >Tanja S. B ¨ [et al]
>
> Article concludes:
>
> > Since these focal Cr microdeposits are observed in the brain of
> >transgenic APP mice, as well as AD patients [73], there is a valid
> >concern that supplementation with extra Cr might exacerbate
> >rather than ameliorate this situation. However, as reasoned
> >above, Cr, if given at an early time point of disease,
> >may prevent or delay the formation of Cr deposits that are a
> >consequence of cellular pathology. In any case, Cr supplementation
> >should be tested first on the transgenic APP mice
> >in which the Cr deposits have been found. In the long term,
> >if warranted by the outcome of such tests, further trials with
> >AD patients could be performed. If successful, this cheap and
> >safe intervention, involving as a nutritional supplement, may
> >extend a huge socioeconomic benefit by improving the quality
> >of life of AD patients and lowering exploding health care
> >costs.
>
> The article [73] cited is the study previously mentioned above.
>
> >[73] Gallant M, Rak M, Szeghalmi A, et al. Elevated levels of creatine
> >detected in APP transgenic mice and Alzeimer diseases
> >brain tissue. The Journal of Biological Chemistry. 2005.
>
> >> Kathryn

1). The concept of cause and effect: I took creatine to improve muscle
energy, no other supps were used, and hot flashes and night sweats
dramatically improved.

2) Placebo effect: Not even applicable. I have never read or heard of
creatine affecting anything other than muscle energy. This side effect
was off the radar and completely unexpected.

3) Statistics: None were given. I am a sole reporter. There are no
studies that I am aware of. It's hard enough to find women of
perimenopause and menopause age who are engaged in high level athletic
activity much less where creatine supplementation would even be
considered. So data points are going to be very tough to find in the
wild.

My experience may or may not be unusual. I have no idea. But creatine
is cheap, safe and I felt it was worthwhile to throw my experience out
here. I'll be interested to see what if anything my gyn does about it.
As with anything, the choice is yours. My own personal choice was not
to use hormones, prescription drugs, black cohosh, soy, red clover,
etc. Creatine for lean muscle gains was a long thought out choice for
me. While there are numerous studies backing it's effectiveness, many
people are considered to be nonresponders. That is, they do not sense
any improvements in strength, performance, or size gains while taking
it. Now while the young bucks will down anything and say it works,
most of the over 35 athletes I talk shop with are more discerning and
don't care to waste their money. I wouldn't expect anything less in
this group for hot flashes and night sweats.

On Oct 6, 7:37*pm, Harry Mary Andruschak <adoptsoldc...@aol.com>
wrote:
> On Oct 4, 2:23 pm, freeb...@mac.com wrote:
>
> > I've been lifting weights for about 1.5 years
>
> Well and good, but you may also want to learn about...
>
> 1 The concept of Cause and effect
> 2) The Placebo effect
> 3 Statitics, including the fact that the smaller a statistical sample,
> the less reliable it is, and a stastistical sample of one is not very
> reliable
> 4) In all those alledged "studies", Follow The Money
>
> Your Skeptical Eunuch

<freebird@mac.com> wrote in message
news:1ab0bf42-0290-4874-bb84-cbdf64300dd9@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...

Are you male or female?

On Oct 10, 2:14*am, "dejablues" <dejabl...@comcast.net> wrote:
> <freeb...@mac.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1ab0bf42-0290-4874-bb84-cbdf64300dd9@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> Are you male or female?

Ha! I'm a 50 year old woman

"freebird@mac.com" <freebird@mac.com> wrote in news:1ab0bf42-0290-4874-
bb84-cbdf64300dd9@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:

> The concept of cause and effect: I took creatine to improve muscle
> energy, no other supps were used, and hot flashes and night sweats
> dramatically improved.
>

It's worth checking into, but you should be aware that hot flashes often
disappear by themselves, or cycle off for a while. So it could very well
be a coincidence.

I'm one who says if you need help, you ought to try everything to see if
it works for you.

Chak

--
It is so important to be proved wrong when one is.
--Quentin Grady, posting to alt.support.diabetes

On Oct 11, 10:31*pm, Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpamm...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> "freeb...@mac.com" <freeb...@mac.com> wrote in news:1ab0bf42-0290-4874-
> bb84-cbdf64300...@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:
>
> > The concept of cause and effect: I took creatine to improve muscle
> > energy, no other supps were used, and hot flashes and night sweats
> > dramatically improved.
>
> It's worth checking into, but you should be aware that hot flashes often
> disappear by themselves, or cycle off for a while. *So it could very well
> be a coincidence. *
>
> I'm one who says if you need help, you ought to try everything to see if
> it works for you.
>
> Chak
>
> --
> It is so important to be proved wrong when one is.
> * --Quentin Grady, posting to alt.support.diabetes

I agree. It could have been coincidence. It was just so striking that
they diminished on the days I took CEE and returned after a couple of
days of not taking it. Over a two week period. And once I took it
everyday they went away. For the first time in years I am sleeping
through the night. I still have a spot on some months so I know I'm
not on the other side yet.

The possible mechanism eludes me. Creatine pulls water into muscles
and increases ATP energy. Maybe there's a hydration link or maybe
increased cellular energy can more quickly counteract hormone
upheavals. Dunno.

x-no-archive: yes

freebird@mac.com wrote:
> I'm not sure why you keep going back to estrogen therapy. Creatine is
> not a hormone and has no effect on hormone levels.

While it's true that creatine is not a hormone, at high doses, it is
demonstrated to stimulate growth hormone release, which will have an
effect on your entire HPA axis, including sex hormones via feedback.
One possible mechanism could be that higher HGH leads to higher
cortisol. See abstracts below demonstrating strong endocrine effects of
creatine.

In your case, it seems to be A Good Thing. :-)


Susan



J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2000 Dec;40(4):336-42.Links
Acute creatine loading enhances human growth hormone secretion.

Schedel JM, Tanaka H, Kiyonaga A, Shindo M, Schutz Y.
Laboratory of Exercise Physiology and Biomechanics, Graduate School of
Physical Education, Chukyo University, Toyota, Japan.
Jean-Marc.Schedel@iphysiol.unil.ch

BACKGROUND: The main objective of this study was to explore the effect
of acute creatine (Cr) ingestion on the secretion of human growth
hormone (GH). METHODS: In a comparative cross-sectional study, 6 healthy
male subjects ingested in resting conditions a single dose of 20 g
creatine (Cr-test) vs a control (c-test). During 6 hours the Cr,
creatinine and GH concentrations in blood serum were measured after Cr
ingestion (Cr-test). RESULTS: During the Cr-test, all subjects showed a
significant stimulation of GH (p<0.05), but with a large interindividual
variability in the GH response: the difference between Cr-test and
c-test averaged 83% (SD 45%). For the majority of subjects the maximum
GH concentration occurred between 2 hrs and 6 hrs after the acute Cr
ingestion. CONCLUSIONS: In resting conditions and at high dosages Cr
enhances GH secretion, mimicking the response of strong exercise which
also stimulates GH secretion. Acute body weight gain and strength
increase observed after Cr supplementation should consider the indirect
anabolic property of Cr.
PMID: 11297004 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


In Vivo. 1998 Mar-Apr;12(2):223-31.Links
Antitumor activity of creatine analogs produced by alterations in
pancreatic hormones and glucose metabolism.

Ara G, Gravelin LM, Kaddurah-Daouk R, Teicher BA.
Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, Boston, MA 02115, USA.
When rats bearing the 13,762 mammary carcinoma were treated with
intravenously administered creatine analogs, cyclocreatine,
beta-guanidinopropionic acid or creatine phosphate on days 4 through 8
and 14 through 18 post tumor implantation, the tumor growth delay
produced varied with whether the animals were drinking water or sugar
water over the course of the study. The tumor growth delays increased
when the animals drank sugar water from 9.3, 1.6 and 7.6 days for
cyclocreatine, beta-guanidinopropionic acid and creatine phosphate,
respectively, to 15.0, 6.3 and 12.6 days. Blood glucose was decreased
over the course of the creatine analog treatment regimen and the
skeletal muscle transport protein GLUT-4 increased 1.5 to 2-fold with
the creatine analog treatments. Plasma insulin was profoundly decreased
to 20-25% of normal by the creatine analog treatment while plasma
glucagon levels were increased. Plasma somatostatin increased 3- to
4-fold during the administration of the creatine analogs. These results
implicate alterations in pancreatic hormone balance in the antitumor
activity of these creatine analogs.
PMID: 9627806 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

x-no-archive: yes

freebird@mac.com wrote:
> 1). The concept of cause and effect: I took creatine to improve muscle
> energy, no other supps were used, and hot flashes and night sweats
> dramatically improved.

Either a happy coincidence or it worked. If you stop it and sx come
back, then start it and they go away, wah lah!

>
> 2) Placebo effect: Not even applicable. I have never read or heard of
> creatine affecting anything other than muscle energy. This side effect
> was off the radar and completely unexpected.

There is no placebo effect the way folks toss the term around. A meta
analysis put that to bed, but some folks believe in Santa, too.

>
> 3) Statistics: None were given. I am a sole reporter. There are no
> studies that I am aware of. It's hard enough to find women of
> perimenopause and menopause age who are engaged in high level athletic
> activity much less where creatine supplementation would even be
> considered. So data points are going to be very tough to find in the
> wild.

If it works for you, that's 100% effectiveness.

>
> My experience may or may not be unusual. I have no idea. But creatine
> is cheap, safe and I felt it was worthwhile to throw my experience out
> here. I'll be interested to see what if anything my gyn does about it.
> As with anything, the choice is yours. My own personal choice was not
> to use hormones, prescription drugs, black cohosh, soy, red clover,
> etc. Creatine for lean muscle gains was a long thought out choice for
> me. While there are numerous studies backing it's effectiveness, many
> people are considered to be nonresponders. That is, they do not sense
> any improvements in strength, performance, or size gains while taking
> it. Now while the young bucks will down anything and say it works,
> most of the over 35 athletes I talk shop with are more discerning and
> don't care to waste their money. I wouldn't expect anything less in
> this group for hot flashes and night sweats.

You should note, though, that anything that tips the balance of lbm vs.
adipose tissue is doing so via hormonal/metabolic alterations. Folks
vary wildly in endocrine makeup and responses, and the citation I posted
first demonstrates that as well.

Susan