Post menopausal (63) taking Estrace (atrophy) do I need progesterone, too?

I have vaginal atrophy and 'am taking 1 gm of Estrace, vaginally, per
night for 2 weeks - then Monday, Wednesday and Friday "forever."

Should I be taking some progesterone to offset the estrogen from
Estrace? So far, its very much helped my atrophy and urogenital
problems but I don't like to take hormones (cancer risk) and sure
don't want to take anything that might cause me problems in the
future.

Thanks.

"Zazenzky" <rdlesh@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1180143448.726818.277430@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
>I have vaginal atrophy and 'am taking 1 gm of Estrace, vaginally, per
> night for 2 weeks - then Monday, Wednesday and Friday "forever."
>
> Should I be taking some progesterone to offset the estrogen from
> Estrace? So far, its very much helped my atrophy and urogenital
> problems but I don't like to take hormones (cancer risk) and sure
> don't want to take anything that might cause me problems in the
> future.
>
> Thanks.

I gm? That's 1000 mg. Most estrogens are prescibed are less than 1 mg and
some may be up to 2-3 mg. Estrogens are generally never taken alone unless
you've had a hysterectomy, you definitely need some progesterone to prevent
excess endometrial proliferation. Check back with your doc about this.

Roseanne

"foggydoggy" <foggydoggy@cogeco.ca> wrote in
news:5PN5i.14300$aX.13677@read1.cgocable.net:

>
> "Zazenzky" <rdlesh@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:1180143448.726818.277430@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
>>I have vaginal atrophy and 'am taking 1 gm of Estrace, vaginally, per
>> night for 2 weeks - then Monday, Wednesday and Friday "forever."
>>
>> Should I be taking some progesterone to offset the estrogen from
>> Estrace? So far, its very much helped my atrophy and urogenital
>> problems but I don't like to take hormones (cancer risk) and sure
>> don't want to take anything that might cause me problems in the
>> future.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> I gm? That's 1000 mg. Most estrogens are prescibed are less than 1 mg
> and some may be up to 2-3 mg. Estrogens are generally never taken
> alone unless you've had a hysterectomy, you definitely need some
> progesterone to prevent excess endometrial proliferation. Check back
> with your doc about this.

I believe that the estrogen she's taking is in cream form. A gram isn't
much for a cream, is it?

Chak


--
Because we don't think about future generations, they will never forget
us.
--Henrik Tikkanen

"Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpammers@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns993CB7F69433chakolatehotmailcom@207.115.33 .102...
> "foggydoggy" <foggydoggy@cogeco.ca> wrote in
> news:5PN5i.14300$aX.13677@read1.cgocable.net:
>
> >
> > "Zazenzky" <rdlesh@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:1180143448.726818.277430@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
> >>I have vaginal atrophy and 'am taking 1 gm of Estrace, vaginally, per
> >> night for 2 weeks - then Monday, Wednesday and Friday "forever."
> >>
> >> Should I be taking some progesterone to offset the estrogen from
> >> Estrace? So far, its very much helped my atrophy and urogenital
> >> problems but I don't like to take hormones (cancer risk) and sure
> >> don't want to take anything that might cause me problems in the
> >> future.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >
> > I gm? That's 1000 mg. Most estrogens are prescibed are less than 1 mg
> > and some may be up to 2-3 mg. Estrogens are generally never taken
> > alone unless you've had a hysterectomy, you definitely need some
> > progesterone to prevent excess endometrial proliferation. Check back
> > with your doc about this.
>
> I believe that the estrogen she's taking is in cream form. A gram isn't
> much for a cream, is it?

A gram of the cream contains 0.1mg active estradiol

http://www.drugs.com/pro/estrace-cream.html

Each gram of ESTRACE® (estradiol vaginal cream, USP, 0.01%) contains 0.1 mg
estradiol in a nonliquefying base containing purified water, propylene
glycol, stearyl alcohol, white ceresin wax, mono- and di-glycerides,
hypromellose 2208 (4000 cps), sodium lauryl sulfate, methylparaben, edetate
di-sodium and tertiary-butylhydroquinone.


>
I was hunting for some formulation information and came across the list of
"common" side effects for Estrace(tm). Hooboy....tooth abscess???

All medicines may cause side effects, but many people have no, or minor,
side effects. Check with your doctor if any of these most COMMON side
effects persist or become bothersome:
Abnormal hair growth; arthritis; back pain; bladder infection; bone and
limb pain; breakthrough bleeding; breast tenderness; bronchitis; carpal
tunnel syndrome; changes in sex drive; constipation; diarrhea; dizziness;
ear infection; emotional disturbance; flu-like symptoms (fever, headache,
sore throat); flushing; fungal infection; hair loss; herpes; indigestion;
joint and muscle strain; lightheadedness; muscle cramps, pain, and spasms;
nausea; neck pain; nose and throat pain; reduced tolerance to carbohydrates;
sinus headache; sleeplessness; stomach bloating and upset; swelling of the
legs and feet; tiredness; tooth abscess; toothache; upper respiratory tract
infection; urinary tract infection; vaginal infection; vaginal irritation;
vomiting; weight changes.

"suzilem" <slemcke@deflectprocessedmeat.texas.net> wrote in
news:46582086$0$4049$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net:

> All medicines may cause side effects, but many people have no, or
> minor, side effects. Check with your doctor if any of these most
> COMMON side effects persist or become bothersome:
> Abnormal hair growth; arthritis; back pain; bladder infection; bone
> and
> limb pain; breakthrough bleeding; breast tenderness; bronchitis;
> carpal tunnel syndrome; changes in sex drive; constipation; diarrhea;
> dizziness; ear infection; emotional disturbance; flu-like symptoms
> (fever, headache, sore throat); flushing; fungal infection; hair loss;
> herpes; indigestion; joint and muscle strain; lightheadedness; muscle
> cramps, pain, and spasms; nausea; neck pain; nose and throat pain;
> reduced tolerance to carbohydrates; sinus headache; sleeplessness;
> stomach bloating and upset; swelling of the legs and feet; tiredness;
> tooth abscess; toothache; upper respiratory tract infection; urinary
> tract infection; vaginal infection; vaginal irritation; vomiting;
> weight changes.
>

Hormones sure are potent, ain't they?

Chak, glad she doesn't

--
Because we don't think about future generations, they will never forget
us.
--Henrik Tikkanen

"Zazenzky" <rdlesh@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1180143448.726818.277430@g4g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
> I have vaginal atrophy and 'am taking 1 gm of Estrace, vaginally, per
> night for 2 weeks - then Monday, Wednesday and Friday "forever."
>
> Should I be taking some progesterone to offset the estrogen from
> Estrace? So far, its very much helped my atrophy and urogenital
> problems but I don't like to take hormones (cancer risk) and sure
> don't want to take anything that might cause me problems in the
> future.
-----------------
Estrogen cream applied "locally" supposedly doesn't get into your
bloodstream enough to cause endometrial cancer like oral estrogen would.
Therefore, no need for progesterone to counter it.

Three years ago, I was using Premarin cream and it was working very well.
Unfortunately, then I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was told to stop
using the cream and that I could never use it again. Well, if it doesn't
get into your bloodstream, why is that the case? I don't know.

BTW, 1 g is the standard initial dose.

Eva

"Eva" <EvaDStructionNOT@NOTverizon.net> wrote in message
news:xoe6i.297$106.195@trndny02...
>

> Estrogen cream applied "locally" supposedly doesn't get into your
> bloodstream enough to cause endometrial cancer like oral estrogen would.
> Therefore, no need for progesterone to counter it.
>
> Three years ago, I was using Premarin cream and it was working very well.
> Unfortunately, then I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was told to
> stop
> using the cream and that I could never use it again. Well, if it doesn't
> get into your bloodstream, why is that the case? I don't know.
>
> BTW, 1 g is the standard initial dose.
>
> Eva

Bioidenticals are usually compounded into creams, so if they can work well
topically that means adequate absorption is there. A friend tried a
compunded bioidentical progesterone cream which within a week made her hot
flashes much worse.So much for skin not absorbing much.Mucous membranes
(vagina) absorb much faster than the epidermal layer. I recall reading about
men coming down with breast enlargement related to the vaginal estrogen
creams used by their wives.

Roseanne

"foggydoggy" <foggydoggy@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:X1G6i.1816$Y_.370@read1.cgocable.net...
>
> "Eva" <EvaDStructionNOT@NOTverizon.net> wrote in message
> news:xoe6i.297$106.195@trndny02...
>>
>
>> Estrogen cream applied "locally" supposedly doesn't get into your
>> bloodstream enough to cause endometrial cancer like oral estrogen would.
>> Therefore, no need for progesterone to counter it.
>>
>> Three years ago, I was using Premarin cream and it was working very well.
>> Unfortunately, then I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was told to
>> stop
>> using the cream and that I could never use it again. Well, if it doesn't
>> get into your bloodstream, why is that the case? I don't know.
>>
>> BTW, 1 g is the standard initial dose.
>>
>> Eva
>
> Bioidenticals are usually compounded into creams, so if they can work well
> topically that means adequate absorption is there. A friend tried a
> compunded bioidentical progesterone cream which within a week made her hot
> flashes much worse.So much for skin not absorbing much.Mucous membranes
> (vagina) absorb much faster than the epidermal layer. I recall reading
> about men coming down with breast enlargement related to the vaginal
> estrogen creams used by their wives.

I was going to reply to this days ago - found the reference in a book I
have, but then forgot to post...

An incident re: your last sentence or two (above) is related in Dr. Susan
Love's "Menopause & Hormone Book". On pages 206 - 207 (2003 copyright - the
edition I have), under the heading "Drugs for Vaginal Dryness: Vaginal
Estrogen", she writes:

"An example of how well vaginal estrogen can be absorbed was reported in a
letter to the New England Journal of Medicine. A seventy-year-old man came
to his doctor complaining of a lump in his left breast. The lump was removed
and found to be benign. But tow months later he was back with a lump on the
other side. This time the doctors checked his history before operating. It
turned out that his wife had been using vaginal estrogen cream for eight
years. She applied the cream twice a week for vaginal dryness and then two
to three times a week as a lubricant right before intercourse - something,
as we'll discuss shortly, that she shouldn't have been doing. The poor man
had been absorbing this estrogen during intercourse. As soon as his wife
stopped using it for lubricant, his breast lump disappeared."

She goes on to say (slightly paraphrased) that for vaginal dryness, only a
very low dose its required, one which doens't appear to have dangerous side
effects. And that the manufacturer's recommended dosage is 10 to 30 times
what will actually do the trick. That, like the Brylcreem ad, "A little
dab'll do ya."

In the next paragraph she talks about Estring and Vagifem - not creams.
Says of Estring (& implies same for Vagifem), "the estrogen dose is so low
that it is not absorbed into the rest of the body."

Cathy



>
> Roseanne
>

"Cathy F." <clfr@adelphiadotdedot.net> wrote in message
news:RfmdnZ8ZevsDb_zb4p2dnA@giganews.com...
>
> "foggydoggy" <foggydoggy@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
> news:X1G6i.1816$Y_.370@read1.cgocable.net...
>>
>> "Eva" <EvaDStructionNOT@NOTverizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:xoe6i.297$106.195@trndny02...
>>>
>>
>>> Estrogen cream applied "locally" supposedly doesn't get into your
>>> bloodstream enough to cause endometrial cancer like oral estrogen would.
>>> Therefore, no need for progesterone to counter it.
>>>
>>> Three years ago, I was using Premarin cream and it was working very
>>> well.
>>> Unfortunately, then I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was told to
>>> stop
>>> using the cream and that I could never use it again. Well, if it
>>> doesn't
>>> get into your bloodstream, why is that the case? I don't know.
>>>
>>> BTW, 1 g is the standard initial dose.
>>>
>>> Eva
>>
>> Bioidenticals are usually compounded into creams, so if they can work
>> well topically that means adequate absorption is there. A friend tried a
>> compunded bioidentical progesterone cream which within a week made her
>> hot flashes much worse.So much for skin not absorbing much.Mucous
>> membranes (vagina) absorb much faster than the epidermal layer. I recall
>> reading about men coming down with breast enlargement related to the
>> vaginal estrogen creams used by their wives.
>
> I was going to reply to this days ago - found the reference in a book I
> have, but then forgot to post...
>
> An incident re: your last sentence or two (above) is related in Dr. Susan
> Love's "Menopause & Hormone Book". On pages 206 - 207 (2003 copyright -
> the edition I have), under the heading "Drugs for Vaginal Dryness: Vaginal
> Estrogen", she writes:
>
> "An example of how well vaginal estrogen can be absorbed was reported in a
> letter to the New England Journal of Medicine. A seventy-year-old man
> came to his doctor complaining of a lump in his left breast. The lump was
> removed and found to be benign. But tow

Actually, it says "two" in the book. ;-)


months later he was back with a lump on the
> other side. This time the doctors checked his history before operating.
> It turned out that his wife had been using vaginal estrogen cream for
> eight years. She applied the cream twice a week for vaginal dryness and
> then two to three times a week as a lubricant right before intercourse -
> something, as we'll discuss shortly, that she shouldn't have been doing.
> The poor man had been absorbing this estrogen during intercourse. As soon
> as his wife stopped using it for lubricant, his breast lump disappeared."

And, IMO, that woman was not exactly the smartest cookie in the jar.

Cathy




>
> She goes on to say (slightly paraphrased) that for vaginal dryness, only a
> very low dose its required, one which doens't appear to have dangerous
> side effects. And that the manufacturer's recommended dosage is 10 to 30
> times what will actually do the trick. That, like the Brylcreem ad, "A
> little dab'll do ya."
>
> In the next paragraph she talks about Estring and Vagifem - not creams.
> Says of Estring (& implies same for Vagifem), "the estrogen dose is so low
> that it is not absorbed into the rest of the body."
>
> Cathy
>
>
>
>>
>> Roseanne
>>
>
>

On Jun 3, 1:54 am, "Cathy F." <c...@adelphiadotdedot.net> wrote:
> "Cathy F." <c...@adelphiadotdedot.net> wrote in message

> > [snip] She applied the cream twice a week for vaginal dryness and
> > then two to three times a week as a lubricant right before intercourse -
> > something, as we'll discuss shortly, that she shouldn't have been doing.
> > The poor man had been absorbing this estrogen during intercourse. As soon
> > as his wife stopped using it for lubricant, his breast lump disappeared."
>
> And, IMO, that woman was not exactly the smartest cookie in the jar.
>

I shudder to think what the overdose did to her too.

JustGB