Re: Not Okay (Yet)

I posted here a week or so ago because I was having issues with my
doctor switching me from Prempro to Activella (estradiol & synthetic
progesterone) and then back to Prempro, because Activella gave me
major jitters. I got some great info, and switched to oral estradiol
(3.75 mg) and natural progesterone cream (1 1/2 ml). She actually
prescribed 5 mg estradiol and 2 ml, but that was a higher dose than I
was taking on the prempro, and since I thought the whole point was to
eventually go off of it, I was reluctant to up my dose.

I don't ever want to go back to Prempro; it had become toxic to me.
But I'm still having some issues that I did not have before any of
this switching ever started. I'm shivery and jittery most of the time
and my hand often has a fine tremor to it. Basically my nerves feel
sort of a-jangle. And I have mild hot flashes, I've noticed today, to
offset all that shivery stuff. I didn't have any of this going on
before we started messing with the HRT.

I don't know if I just need to:

*Give it more time, just wait it out - it doesn't really seem to be
getting better
*Go up to the whole 5 mg estradiol
*Cut back to 2 1/2 mg estradiol (could that be making me jittery?) or
*Go see my family practice doctor to see if there is something else
causing it. I don't have a lot of faith, cynical me, that she would
fine anything.

My gynecologist told me to give it 2-3 months to see whether it worked
well for me. She stressed that more than once. So I don't see her
telling me anything different if I call her office.

Anyway, any insight or wisdom anyone has, I'd appreciate. Oh, and
I've been steadily gaining weight now for the past few months. I've
outgrown all of my pants - I've gone up about a size and a half.

Thanks in advance,

Pat

"Miss Trish" <trishcat55@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:af067a07-0c8e-4673-9653-e8216afc3a9a@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>I posted here a week or so ago because I was having issues with my
> doctor switching me from Prempro to Activella (estradiol & synthetic
> progesterone) and then back to Prempro, because Activella gave me
> major jitters. I got some great info, and switched to oral estradiol
> (3.75 mg) and natural progesterone cream (1 1/2 ml). She actually
> prescribed 5 mg estradiol and 2 ml, but that was a higher dose than I
> was taking on the prempro, and since I thought the whole point was to
> eventually go off of it, I was reluctant to up my dose.
>
> I don't ever want to go back to Prempro; it had become toxic to me.
> But I'm still having some issues that I did not have before any of
> this switching ever started. I'm shivery and jittery most of the time
> and my hand often has a fine tremor to it. Basically my nerves feel
> sort of a-jangle. And I have mild hot flashes, I've noticed today, to
> offset all that shivery stuff. I didn't have any of this going on
> before we started messing with the HRT.

Arghh. Hormones can do all sorts of things; both nice & crummy. BTDT with
the jittery feeling. Hate it. Feels like my skin can't contain myself -
want to "jump out of my skin." The shivery stuff can be part & parcel
(BTDT, too) of the hormonal junk, but also hypo-T people tend to run cold.
See below...

>
> I don't know if I just need to:
>
> *Give it more time, just wait it out - it doesn't really seem to be
> getting better
> *Go up to the whole 5 mg estradiol
> *Cut back to 2 1/2 mg estradiol (could that be making me jittery?) or
> *Go see my family practice doctor to see if there is something else
> causing it. I don't have a lot of faith, cynical me, that she would
> fine anything.
>
> My gynecologist told me to give it 2-3 months to see whether it worked
> well for me. She stressed that more than once. So I don't see her
> telling me anything different if I call her office.
>
> Anyway, any insight or wisdom anyone has, I'd appreciate. Oh, and
> I've been steadily gaining weight now for the past few months. I've
> outgrown all of my pants - I've gone up about a size and a half.

I don't remember: have you had your thyroid checked? (I'm thinking possible
hypo-T... the weight gain.)

Cathy


>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Pat

On Mar 14, 6:33*pm, "Cathy F." <clfrc...@adelphiadotdashdot.net>
wrote:
> Arghh. *Hormones can do all sorts of things; both nice & crummy. *BTDTwith
> the jittery feeling. *Hate it. *Feels like my skin can't contain myself -
> want to "jump out of my skin." *The shivery stuff can be part & parcel
> (BTDT, too) of the hormonal junk, but also hypo-T people tend to run cold.
> See below...
> I don't remember: have you had your thyroid checked? (I'm thinking possible
> hypo-T... the weight gain.)
>
> Cathy
>
>
-
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That's exactly what it feels like - like I am jumping out of my skin.

Yes, I have had my thyroid checked, a month or so ago - family
practice doc says it's just fine.

I should also mention that, having chronic fatigue syndrome, I am very
sensitive to any medications. Magnesium and b-vitamins have in the
past made me feel jittery like this. I don't take any of them right
now. And I don't know if this is a meno symptom that the estrogen
isn't handling or a reaction to the estrogen. Argh!!!


This is so frustrating! I'm supposed to go on a cruise in a couple of
months and I so very much want to be evened out so I can enjoy it.
Pat

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:
> I posted here a week or so ago because I was having issues with my
> doctor switching me from Prempro to Activella (estradiol & synthetic
> progesterone) and then back to Prempro, because Activella gave me
> major jitters. I got some great info, and switched to oral estradiol
> (3.75 mg) and natural progesterone cream (1 1/2 ml). She actually
> prescribed 5 mg estradiol and 2 ml, but that was a higher dose than I
> was taking on the prempro, and since I thought the whole point was to
> eventually go off of it, I was reluctant to up my dose.
>
> I don't ever want to go back to Prempro; it had become toxic to me.
> But I'm still having some issues that I did not have before any of
> this switching ever started. I'm shivery and jittery most of the time
> and my hand often has a fine tremor to it. Basically my nerves feel
> sort of a-jangle. And I have mild hot flashes, I've noticed today, to
> offset all that shivery stuff. I didn't have any of this going on
> before we started messing with the HRT.
>
> I don't know if I just need to:
>
> *Give it more time, just wait it out - it doesn't really seem to be
> getting better
> *Go up to the whole 5 mg estradiol
> *Cut back to 2 1/2 mg estradiol (could that be making me jittery?) or
> *Go see my family practice doctor to see if there is something else
> causing it. I don't have a lot of faith, cynical me, that she would
> fine anything.

Cutting back will make you more, not less, jittery. Jitters are a very
typical sign of insufficiency, not so much excess, IME. You could go
higher, and then taper by tiny increments every month or two to see if
that makes it more tolerable. That's what I had to do with my dose of
transdermal estrogen.

>
> My gynecologist told me to give it 2-3 months to see whether it worked
> well for me. She stressed that more than once. So I don't see her
> telling me anything different if I call her office.

There's a good reason for that; that's about how long it takes for your
body's whole endocrine feedback loop to adjust to changes and rejigger.
Any change in one hormone causes a whole cascade of changes in all the
others and it takes time. If you feel awful, you can either decide to
tough it out, or raise the dose to the one she initially rx'ed and taper
more gradually to avoid relapse of symptoms.

>
> Anyway, any insight or wisdom anyone has, I'd appreciate. Oh, and
> I've been steadily gaining weight now for the past few months. I've
> outgrown all of my pants - I've gone up about a size and a half.

I don't recall; have you had your thyroid and/or cortisol checked?
Fasting insulin?

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:

>
> That's exactly what it feels like - like I am jumping out of my skin.

Yeah, HATE it!

>
> Yes, I have had my thyroid checked, a month or so ago - family
> practice doc says it's just fine.

You need more info than that. What did the FP test, free T3 and T4, or
just TSH? If your cortisol is high, it lowers the TSH and you'd look
fine but feel awful.

Susan

On Mar 14, 7:56*pm, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Miss Trish wrote:
>
> > That's exactly what it feels like - like I am jumping out of my skin.
>
> Yeah, HATE it!
>
>
>
> > Yes, I have had my thyroid checked, a month or so ago - family
> > practice doc says it's just fine.
>
> You need more info than that. What did the FP test, free T3 and T4, or
> just TSH? *If your cortisol is high, it lowers the TSH and you'd look
> fine but feel awful.
>
> Susan

This was my family practice doc, actually - I don't know what exactly
she tested; it was a routine slate of bloodwork. I have to go back to
see her this next week to get a refill for my amitryptiline and I'll
ask. What exactly should I ask? She's a P.A., btw, and not IMO
particularly aggressive about getting to the bottom of this kind of
thing. In all fairness, she sees a lot of walk-in, really sick
people.

I think I will go up to the prescribed dose. If I feel worse, more
jittery, then maybe I am reacting to the estradiol? Ack! I hate this
stuff! But I appreciate all of you!

Pat

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:

> This was my family practice doc, actually - I don't know what exactly
> she tested; it was a routine slate of bloodwork. I have to go back to
> see her this next week to get a refill for my amitryptiline and I'll
> ask. What exactly should I ask? She's a P.A., btw, and not IMO
> particularly aggressive about getting to the bottom of this kind of
> thing. In all fairness, she sees a lot of walk-in, really sick
> people.
>
> I think I will go up to the prescribed dose. If I feel worse, more
> jittery, then maybe I am reacting to the estradiol? Ack! I hate this
> stuff! But I appreciate all of you!
>

Pat, how long have you been on amitryptline? It, too, has hormonal
effects that bother some folks a lot.

Susan

On Mar 15, 8:53*am, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Miss Trish wrote:
> > This was my family practice doc, actually - I don't know what exactly
> > she tested; it was a routine slate of bloodwork. *I have to go back to
> > see her this next week to get a refill for my amitryptiline and I'll
> > ask. *What exactly should I ask? *She's a P.A., btw, and not IMO
> > particularly aggressive about getting to the bottom of this kind of
> > thing. *In all fairness, she sees a lot of walk-in, really sick
> > people.
>
> > I think I will go up to the prescribed dose. *If I feel worse, more
> > jittery, then maybe I am reacting to the estradiol? *Ack! *I hate this
> > stuff! *But I appreciate all of you!
>
> Pat, how long have you been on amitryptline? *It, too, has hormonal
> effects that bother some folks a lot.
>
> Susan

I've been on it (50 mg) for about twenty years for sleep, and other
issues related to CFS. I tried tapering off of it very slowly two
years ago and got the exact same symptoms (although much less) that I
am having right now. They did not resolve, I bumped my dose back up
to 50 mg., and was fine again. I'm wondering if it is reacting badly
with the estrogen.

I'm suspecting that, even after all we've discussed, that I might need
to back down on the estrogen, down to .5 mg, instead of bumping it
up. I have an issue with a nerve running up the back of my left leg,
from my foot all the way up my calf, that buzzes like a chainsaw when
I'm having problems with medications. It is sort of my barometer - it
reacts to magnesium that way, to B-vitamins, for instance. It is in
overdrive right now, and has been getting worse every day, rather than
better. And since my sleep has also been getting worse every night,
rather than better, I did only take .5 mg estradiol this morning.
Hopefully in a few days I might see an improvement.

Pat

P.S.

I just looked up Estradiol on drugs.com and among common side effects
listed were: anxiety and insomnia. Hmmm....

Pat

On Mar 15, 6:35*am, Miss Trish <trishca...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> P.S.
>
> I just looked up Estradiol on drugs.com and among common side effects
> listed were: *anxiety and insomnia. *Hmmm....
>
> Pat

Pat,

I've been on generic oral estradiol over two years now, .5 mg a day.
I had insomnia before I started, and although it didn't help, it
didn't get any worse. My long-standing mild nervous anxiety didn't
worsen either. My friend takes 1 mg. estradiol and doesn't get these
side effects either. A comprehensive side effects list will say what
percentage of people get a side effect.

Does anyone else think 5 mg. estradiol is a very high dose? 1 mg. is
the standard dose, equivalent to the standard premarin dose of .625
mg. I remember a doctor being very alarmed to see I had a scrip for 2
mg. estradiol, until I explained that I was cutting it in quarters
because it was cheaper that way. She said 2 mg. was an excessively
high dose.

What was the premarin dose you were on for years? I know nothing
about progesterone doses so can't comment on that.
I once tried 10 mg. amitryptiline for sleep, but it didn't seem to
help. I was told that's the standard dose for insomnia, and that
higher doses are for depression. The RevolutionHealth site, where
people post opinions about drugs, rates mirtazapine and trazadone as
the best sedating anti-depressants for sleep (for some people).

Whatever changes you make in your hormone dose, you'd be wise to make
gradually.

Les

>
> I've been on generic oral estradiol over two years now, .5 mg a day.
> I had insomnia before I started, and although it didn't help, it
> didn't get any worse. *My long-standing mild nervous anxiety didn't
> worsen either. *My friend takes 1 mg. estradiol and doesn't get these
> side effects either. *A comprehensive side effects list will say what
> percentage of people get a side effect.
>
> Does anyone else think 5 mg. estradiol is a very high dose? *1 mg. is
> the standard dose, equivalent to the standard premarin dose of .625
> mg. *I remember a doctor being very alarmed to see I had a scrip for 2
> mg. estradiol, until I explained that I was cutting it in quarters
> because it was cheaper that way. *She said 2 mg. was an excessively
> high dose.
>
> What was the premarin dose you were on for years? *I know nothing
> about progesterone doses so can't comment on that.
> I once tried 10 mg. amitryptiline for sleep, but it didn't seem to
> help. *I was told that's the standard dose for insomnia, and that
> higher doses are for depression. *The RevolutionHealth site, where
> people post opinions about drugs, rates mirtazapine and trazadone as
> the best sedating anti-depressants for sleep (for some people).
>
> Whatever changes you make in your hormone dose, you'd be wise to make
> gradually.
>
> Les

I was on the .45 dosage of premarin, comparable to what I started with
on the estradiol. This morning I dropped the estradiol to .5,
comparable to the lowest dose of premarin. I couldn't take the
shaking and sleeplessness anymore. It was getting worse by the day,
rather than better, and I did not want to break down and ask my doctor
for anti-anxiety meds. And that's a personal decision and not a
judgmental statement about anxiety drugs, btw. So far the tremors
seem to have abated some. I'm sure I'm in for some withdrawal in the
near future, though - hot flashes among them, I'd assume?

I make no claim that 1 mg is a high dose for other people, or that
most people would react in the way stated above, although obviously,
some people have. I just know that I personally react more strongly
to medications than most people do. (One oral dose of prednisone a
few months back kept me up for two solid nights. I suspect if I ever
am dx'd w/cancer, I'm toast, because I won't be able to tolerate
chemo). Anyway, I have nothing against estradiol; I know it is
helpful for lots of people.

I know many people who are taking or who have taken amitryptiline for
pain and/or sleep. 25 mg. seems to be the standard starting dose in
those I know. People with serious depression often take up to 150
mg. In any case, as much as I'd love to not be on it, tapering just
didn't work out well for me. And Trazadone did nothing for me in the
sleep department. I took doxepin for a while, but it was far too
sedating.

I'm wondering - how do people who have to come off of HRT quickly do
it? Those who are dx'd w/breast cancer for instance?

Pat

x-no-archive: yes

sage hen wrote:
> On Mar 15, 6:35 am, Miss Trish <trishca...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>P.S.
>>
>>I just looked up Estradiol on drugs.com and among common side effects
>>listed were: anxiety and insomnia. Hmmm....
>>
>>Pat
>
>
> Pat,
>
> I've been on generic oral estradiol over two years now, .5 mg a day.
> I had insomnia before I started, and although it didn't help, it
> didn't get any worse. My long-standing mild nervous anxiety didn't
> worsen either. My friend takes 1 mg. estradiol and doesn't get these
> side effects either. A comprehensive side effects list will say what
> percentage of people get a side effect.

My insomnia was completely reversed with, initially, TriEst .625, which
I gradually tapered way down from over a long time to prevent symptoms
returning. I now use estradiol transdermal.

>
> Does anyone else think 5 mg. estradiol is a very high dose? 1 mg. is
> the standard dose, equivalent to the standard premarin dose of .625
> mg. I remember a doctor being very alarmed to see I had a scrip for 2
> mg. estradiol, until I explained that I was cutting it in quarters
> because it was cheaper that way. She said 2 mg. was an excessively
> high dose.

I have no idea what a high dose is for oral, I've only ever used
transdermal.

>
> What was the premarin dose you were on for years? I know nothing
> about progesterone doses so can't comment on that.
> I once tried 10 mg. amitryptiline for sleep, but it didn't seem to
> help. I was told that's the standard dose for insomnia, and that
> higher doses are for depression. The RevolutionHealth site, where
> people post opinions about drugs, rates mirtazapine and trazadone as
> the best sedating anti-depressants for sleep (for some people).
>
> Whatever changes you make in your hormone dose, you'd be wise to make
> gradually.
>

I so agree with this, very gradually, and taking several weeks, at
least, between dosage changes.

Susan

On Mar 15, 6:06*pm, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:
> > Whatever changes you make in your hormone dose, you'd be wise to make
> > gradually.
>
> I so agree with this, very gradually, and taking several weeks, at
> least, between dosage changes.
>
> Susan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks - I appreciate the support. More than I can say!

Pat

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:

> Thanks - I appreciate the support. More than I can say!
>


Good luck, Pat. Many of us know well the feelings you're describing,
and I hope they're gone sooner, not later, for you.

Susan

Miss Trish wrote:

> I'm suspecting that, even after all we've discussed, that I might need
> to back down on the estrogen, down to .5 mg, instead of bumping it
> up. I have an issue with a nerve running up the back of my left leg,
> from my foot all the way up my calf, that buzzes like a chainsaw when
> I'm having problems with medications. It is sort of my barometer - it
> reacts to magnesium that way, to B-vitamins, for instance. It is in
> overdrive right now, and has been getting worse every day, rather than
> better. And since my sleep has also been getting worse every night,
> rather than better, I did only take .5 mg estradiol this morning.
> Hopefully in a few days I might see an improvement.

Pat -

Do you still have your uterus? If so, as you experiment with
estradiol levels, make sure you're getting sufficient
progesterone. (I can't tell you how to do that; just that if
you're taking more estrogen, you need more progesterone.)
Estrogen that's is unopposed by progesterone greatly increases
your risk of endometrial cancer.

I wish I could help with other aspects of your problem, but I
don't have anything more to offer.

FUrPaw

--
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched,
every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense
a theft from those who hunger and are not fed,
those who are cold and are not clothed."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

To reply, unleash the dogs.

Miss Trish wrote:

> I'm wondering - how do people who have to come off of HRT quickly do
> it? Those who are dx'd w/breast cancer for instance?

I did it cold turkey. Just stopped. I had been taking Premarin
(and I'm ashamed to admit that - I just didn't investigate it
sufficiently at the time). I think the effects of stopping were
kind of lost in the noise of coping with the EC diagnosis,
hysterectomy, etc.

FurPaw

--
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched,
every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense
a theft from those who hunger and are not fed,
those who are cold and are not clothed."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

To reply, unleash the dogs.

On Mar 15, 2:27*pm, Miss Trish <trishca...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > I've been on generic oral estradiol over two years now, .5 mg a day.
> > I had insomnia before I started, and although it didn't help, it
> > didn't get any worse. *My long-standing mild nervous anxiety didn't
> > worsen either. *My friend takes 1 mg. estradiol and doesn't get these
> > side effects either. *A comprehensive side effects list will say what
> > percentage of people get a side effect.
>
> > Does anyone else think 5 mg. estradiol is a very high dose? *1 mg. is
> > the standard dose, equivalent to the standard premarin dose of .625
> > mg. *I remember a doctor being very alarmed to see I had a scrip for 2
> > mg. estradiol, until I explained that I was cutting it in quarters
> > because it was cheaper that way. *She said 2 mg. was an excessively
> > high dose.
>
> > What was the premarin dose you were on for years? *I know nothing
> > about progesterone doses so can't comment on that.
> > I once tried 10 mg. amitryptiline for sleep, but it didn't seem to
> > help. *I was told that's the standard dose for insomnia, and that
> > higher doses are for depression. *The RevolutionHealth site, where
> > people post opinions about drugs, rates mirtazapine and trazadone as
> > the best sedating anti-depressants for sleep (for some people).
>
> > Whatever changes you make in your hormone dose, you'd be wise to make
> > gradually.
>
> > Les
>
> I was on the .45 dosage of premarin, comparable to what I started with
> on the estradiol. *This morning I dropped the estradiol to .5,
> comparable to the lowest dose of premarin. *I couldn't take the
> shaking and sleeplessness anymore. *It was getting worse by the day,
> rather than better, and I did not want to break down and ask my doctor
> for anti-anxiety meds. *And that's a personal decision and not a
> judgmental statement about anxiety drugs, btw. *So far the tremors
> seem to have abated some. *I'm sure I'm in for some withdrawal in the
> near future, though - hot flashes among them, I'd assume?
>
> I make no claim that 1 mg is a high dose for other people, or that
> most people would react in the way stated above, although obviously,
> some people have. *I just know that I personally react more strongly
> to medications than most people do. *(One oral dose of prednisone a
> few months back kept me up for two solid nights. *I suspect if I ever
> am dx'd w/cancer, I'm toast, because I won't be able to tolerate
> chemo). *Anyway, I have nothing against estradiol; I know it is
> helpful for lots of people.
>
> I know many people who are taking or who have taken amitryptiline for
> pain and/or sleep. *25 mg. seems to be the standard starting dose in
> those I know. *People with serious depression often take up to 150
> mg. *In any case, as much as I'd love to not be on it, tapering just
> didn't work out well for me. *And Trazadone did nothing for me in the
> sleep department. *I took doxepin for a while, but it was far too
> sedating.
>
> I'm wondering - how do people who have to come off of HRT quickly do
> it? *Those who are dx'd w/breast cancer for instance?
>
> Pat- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Pat,

Glad it's point five mg. estradiol you were prescribed, and not five.
Point five cuts my hot flashes 75 percent and helps other symptoms as
well. I've never suffered the pains and jitters you describe.

I knew a woman who went off standard dose premarin, cold turkey, upon
learning about the horse cruelty issue. She didn't substitute
anything, and suffered very little. She'd been taking it 7 years so
probably didn't need it any more, but it's still surprising nothing
happened. My mom also stopped standard premarin all at once with zero
consequences. Some clueless doctor prescribed it for her heart
problems, and then reversed himself when some bad WHI news came out.
I think the bottom line is, it's possible to drop HRT without tapering
only if you're completely out of the post-meno stage. No doubt many
women have continued HRT unnecessarily because they thought it's the
fountain of youth or some such crap.

Looking through RevolutionHealth ratings, I noticed some people can
take sedating anti-depressants successfully for years, while others
have to increase the dose with diminishing returns. Ditto with anti-
anxiety meds (benzodiazepines) for sleep. Doctors are much more
willing to prescribe anti-depressants than benzos. Benzos and Ambien
work for me, but if you don't want to end up in detox, it's vital not
to keep increasing the dose. I've tried several anti-depressants for
sleep; they either speed me up, or make me feel dopey but not sleepy,
or do nothing (trazadone).

The first HRT I tried was bioidentical cream similar to Susan's,
except it was Bi-Est with 1 mg. estriol and .25 mg. estradiol a day,
along with 1 mg. testosterone. It did help my sleep and other
symptoms, but my breasts swelled up painfully and fibrocystically. I
also gained five pounds in three months. No doubt the dose was too
high, and it was also too expensive. In other words, there's an
estrogen dose high enough to help me sleep, but the side effects are
unbearable.

Hope you're doing better soon, Pat.

Les

>
> Looking through RevolutionHealth ratings, I noticed some people can
> take sedating anti-depressants successfully for years, while others
> have to increase the dose with diminishing returns. *Ditto with anti-
> anxiety meds (benzodiazepines) for sleep. *Doctors are much more
> willing to prescribe anti-depressants than benzos. *Benzos and Ambien
> work for me, but if you don't want to end up in detox, it's vital not
> to keep increasing the dose. *I've tried several anti-depressants for
> sleep; they either speed me up, or make me feel dopey but not sleepy,
> or do nothing (trazadone).

I took a low dose of Librium, a benzo, for about 14 years at night
along with the amitryptiline. I slept great, and never increased the
dose, but when I started having cognitive problems, that looked like a
likely candidate, so I began tapering, very slowly. It was not easy
at all, but I did manage to taper successfully, and although it didn't
solve my cognitive problems (most likely due to CFS), I felt a lot
better off of the benzos. So I'm scared to take them again; I don't
want to go through that w/d again. It was not fun.

> The first HRT I tried was bioidentical cream similar to Susan's,
> except it was Bi-Est with 1 mg. estriol and .25 mg. estradiol a day,
> along with 1 mg. testosterone. *It did help my sleep and other
> symptoms, but my breasts swelled up painfully and fibrocystically. *I
> also gained five pounds in three months. *No doubt the dose was too
> high, and it was also too expensive. *In other words, there's an
> estrogen dose high enough to help me sleep, but the side effects are
> unbearable.
>
> Hope you're doing better soon, Pat.

I do feel better, so far. This is day two on the .5 mg., and the
chills and shakes and general nervousness blessedly went away last
night for the first time in about a week. And my leg quit buzzing.
That buzz is very annoying, btw. Anyway, I felt so good! It all
started up again, after this morning's dose, but it's already abating
a bit. I'm also tapering the progesterone accordingly. That's pretty
easy since it's in cream form.

If things level off well, and I'm still feeling really good, I will
stay at this dose at least for a while.

But I'll probably check in and bitch and moan anyway, if that's okay,
lol. Thanks so much for sharing your own stories - all of you!

Pat