Transdermal Timing

I've been using progesterone cream for about a month now, I think.
BTW, I posted here while I was going through hormone hell, coming off
of Prempro onto estradiol (oral) and the natural prog. The estradiol,
at 1 mg, was more than my system could handle, and I'm doing well
right now at .5 mg with 1 ml prog.

I've thought for health reasons I should taper down further, but I
really don't want to upset this delicate balance I've found for now,
lol.

Anyway, my question has to do with showering or bathing after applying
the transdermal progesterone cream. I usually apply the cream about
an hour before bedtime. (That seems to work better for me than right
before bedtime.) I normally shower in the mornings, but a couple of
times, after I'd applied the cream, I decided I wanted a bubble bath
before bedtime. I was afraid it would wash off the progesterone,
though.

Anyone know how long it takes for it to get completely into your
system after applying it?

Pat

"Miss Trish" <trishcat55@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:2075c469-0911-4beb-9b7e-a40fe5f14297@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> I've been using progesterone cream for about a month now, I think.
> BTW, I posted here while I was going through hormone hell, coming off
> of Prempro onto estradiol (oral) and the natural prog. The estradiol,
> at 1 mg, was more than my system could handle, and I'm doing well
> right now at .5 mg with 1 ml prog.
>
> I've thought for health reasons I should taper down further, but I
> really don't want to upset this delicate balance I've found for now,
> lol.
>
> Anyway, my question has to do with showering or bathing after applying
> the transdermal progesterone cream. I usually apply the cream about
> an hour before bedtime. (That seems to work better for me than right
> before bedtime.) I normally shower in the mornings, but a couple of
> times, after I'd applied the cream, I decided I wanted a bubble bath
> before bedtime. I was afraid it would wash off the progesterone,
> though.
>
> Anyone know how long it takes for it to get completely into your
> system after applying it?
>
> Pat

I would think the absorption is pretty quick once on contact. I wouldn't add
another dose after a bath as you may get too much. You can plan a bath an
hour before the dose.

How long were you on Prempro before starting the bioidenticals and how often
do you get your hormone levels tested and does this dose give you a
period?My naturopath tries to get the thyroid and adrenals balanced before
using HRT, if the adrenals are in balance they they successfully take over
estrogen & progesterone production when the ovaries retire.

Roseanne

x-no-archive: yes

Miss Trish wrote:
> I've been using progesterone cream for about a month now, I think.
> BTW, I posted here while I was going through hormone hell, coming off
> of Prempro onto estradiol (oral) and the natural prog. The estradiol,
> at 1 mg, was more than my system could handle, and I'm doing well
> right now at .5 mg with 1 ml prog.
>
> I've thought for health reasons I should taper down further, but I
> really don't want to upset this delicate balance I've found for now,
> lol.
>
> Anyway, my question has to do with showering or bathing after applying
> the transdermal progesterone cream. I usually apply the cream about
> an hour before bedtime. (That seems to work better for me than right
> before bedtime.) I normally shower in the mornings, but a couple of
> times, after I'd applied the cream, I decided I wanted a bubble bath
> before bedtime. I was afraid it would wash off the progesterone,
> though.
>
> Anyone know how long it takes for it to get completely into your
> system after applying it?

It's so hard to say; my skin is very thin and I probably get most of it
right into my bloodstream, but who knows what rate you absorb it, how
the various ingredients affect it's rate? I think you should take it
closer to bed time, in case the urge for bubbles comes up. :-)

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

foggydoggy wrote:
?My naturopath tries to get the thyroid and adrenals balanced before
> using HRT, if the adrenals are in balance they they successfully take over
> estrogen & progesterone production when the ovaries retire.
>

Estradiol is an adrenal hormone before and during menopause. There's a
wonderful chart at zrtlabs.com that shows the entire adrenal hormone
cascade.

http://tinyurl.com/4k26ma will take you to the link for the PDF, the
top result.


All of our adrenal hormones are made by LDL cholesterol, I learned from
this, which is why our bodies raise LDL as our steroid production wanes,
and probably why elderly folks with lower LDL have a higher mortality rate.

We need it. NIH has just undertaken to study the adrenal suppressive
effects of statins; long after the horse is out of the barn.

Susan

"Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:66cnqnF2ju587U1@mid.individual.net...


Estradiol is an adrenal hormone before and during menopause. There's a
> wonderful chart at zrtlabs.com that shows the entire adrenal hormone
> cascade.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4k26ma will take you to the link for the PDF, the top
> result.
>
>
> All of our adrenal hormones are made by LDL cholesterol, I learned from
> this, which is why our bodies raise LDL as our steroid production wanes,
> and probably why elderly folks with lower LDL have a higher mortality
> rate.
>
> We need it. NIH has just undertaken to study the adrenal suppressive
> effects of statins; long after the horse is out of the barn.
>
> Susan

I didn't know statins suppress the adrenals or that elderly people with low
LDL's have a higher mortality rate. I wonder if this is also the case with
using red yeast rice for cholesterol control? I used to be on Crestor and
stopped it due to muscle pain, my ND told me to take RYR for a cholesterol
of 7.2 (I don't know US parameters) but I think 7.2 is above 250 mg/dl and
my total cholestrol dropped to 5.8, still on the higher side and LDL dropped
to normal levels but the most important is that my HDL went up nicely. Now I
wonder if my years of adrenal fatigue was related to the statins and not so
much due to stress & peri?

Roseanne

x-no-archive: yes

foggydoggy wrote:

> I didn't know statins suppress the adrenals or that elderly people with low
> LDL's have a higher mortality rate. I wonder if this is also the case with
> using red yeast rice for cholesterol control?

Yes, anything that lowers LDL lowers the available material that adrenal
steroids are made from. RYR is a statin.

I used to be on Crestor and
> stopped it due to muscle pain, my ND told me to take RYR for a cholesterol
> of 7.2 (I don't know US parameters) but I think 7.2 is above 250 mg/dl and
> my total cholestrol dropped to 5.8, still on the higher side and LDL dropped
> to normal levels but the most important is that my HDL went up nicely. Now I
> wonder if my years of adrenal fatigue was related to the statins and not so
> much due to stress & peri?

My LDL bounces around depending upon how my endocrine system responds to
lesser and greater amounts of available adrenal hormones. Your
triglycerides and HDL are the most predictive for CVD mortality risk,
not LDL, which is a red herring used to great advantage to sell statins.

If you got muscle aches on Crestor, you shouldn't be using RYR, either.
You're aiming mostly at the least helpful target, LDL, and are
adrenally suppressing yourself. Have you noted your triglycerides? You
don't want those much above 100.

Susan

On Apr 12, 4:05*pm, "foggydoggy" <foggydo...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
> "Miss Trish" <trishca...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> news:2075c469-0911-4beb-9b7e-a40fe5f14297@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've been using progesterone cream for about a month now, I think.
> > BTW, I posted here while I was going through hormone hell, coming off
> > of Prempro onto estradiol (oral) and the natural prog. *The estradiol,
> > at 1 mg, was more than my system could handle, and I'm doing well
> > right now at .5 mg with 1 ml prog.
>
> > I've thought for health reasons I should taper down further, but I
> > really don't want to upset this delicate balance I've found for now,
> > lol.
>
> > Anyway, my question has to do with showering or bathing after applying
> > the transdermal progesterone cream. *I usually apply the cream about
> > an hour before bedtime. *(That seems to work better for me than right
> > before bedtime.) I normally shower in the mornings, but a couple of
> > times, after I'd applied the cream, I decided I wanted a bubble bath
> > before bedtime. *I was afraid it would wash off the progesterone,
> > though.
>
> > Anyone know how long it takes for it to get completely into your
> > system after applying it?
>
> > Pat
>
> I would think the absorption is pretty quick once on contact. I wouldn't add
> another dose after a bath as you may get too much. You can plan a bath an
> hour before the dose.
>
> How long were you on Prempro before starting the bioidenticals and how often
> do you get your hormone levels tested and does this dose give you a
> period?My naturopath tries to get the thyroid and adrenals balanced before
> using HRT, if the adrenals are in balance they they successfully take over
> estrogen & progesterone production when the ovaries retire.
>
> Roseanne- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I was on the Prempro for about three years, I think. I was on birth
control pills before that. I've only been on the bioidenticals for
about a month. I haven't had my hormones tested in three or four
years, actually. I'm not sure who I could make an app't with that
would do that. Getting in to see another gyno would take months. Ah,
pursuing medical care is so exhausting and frustrating!

I'm just thinking that if I do this slowly enough, this taper, that
balancing might happen on its own.... wishful thinking? I do know the
body does try to balance and regulate itself.

Pat

>
> > Anyone know how long it takes for it to get completely into your
> > system after applying it?
>
> It's so hard to say; my skin is very thin and I probably get most of it
> right into my bloodstream, but who knows what rate you absorb it, how
> the various ingredients affect it's rate? *I think you should take it
> closer to bed time, in case the urge for bubbles comes up. *:-)
>
> Susan- Hide quoted text -
>

My skin is pretty thin as well. Ah yes - I guess I'll just have to
plan a bit better for those warm soaks, won't I?

Pat

"Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:66cqn7F2jooimU1@mid.individual.net...
> My LDL bounces around depending upon how my endocrine system responds to
> lesser and greater amounts of available adrenal hormones. Your
> triglycerides and HDL are the most predictive for CVD mortality risk, not
> LDL, which is a red herring used to great advantage to sell statins.
>
> If you got muscle aches on Crestor, you shouldn't be using RYR, either.
> You're aiming mostly at the least helpful target, LDL, and are adrenally
> suppressing yourself. Have you noted your triglycerides? You don't want
> those much above 100.
>
> Susan

I got muscle aches on 1200 mg of RRY and disappeared on 600 mg which I'm
still taking.The problem lies with the depletion of CoQ10 which I'm taking
100 mg of highly absorbable.There is a familial hypercholesteremia on my
mother's side of family and it really does have to be treated. My LDL was
definitely too high and needed to be treated but I had a decent HDL and
always had low triglycerides.All my adrenal hormones have been at normal
levels except certain times of stress in which cortisols were elevated.

When I was taking psyllium husks regularly my LDL and total cholesterol
dropped but I stopped taking it when my body started reacting to it.The red
rice yeast is a statin in the sense that Big Pharma turned the active
ingredient into Lovastatin. RRY is the yeast the chinese use to make rice
wine.

Roseanne

x-no-archive: yes

foggydoggy wrote:

> I got muscle aches on 1200 mg of RRY and disappeared on 600 mg which I'm
> still taking.The problem lies with the depletion of CoQ10 which I'm taking
> 100 mg of highly absorbable.

There is a problem with depletion of CoQ10, yes. But aches and pains
are also a manifestation of adrenal suppression.

There is a familial hypercholesteremia on my
> mother's side of family and it really does have to be treated.

In my lay opinion and personal experience, no, it doesn't. The right
diet will lower risks. No family has a worse CVD history than mine and
my dyslipidemia reversed within two weeks of a major dietary change.

My LDL was
> definitely too high and needed to be treated but I had a decent HDL and
> always had low triglycerides.All my adrenal hormones have been at normal
> levels except certain times of stress in which cortisols were elevated.

Have you read the research? Low TGL and higher HDL means the LDL is the
bouyant, non damaging kind. I know someone whose family was in a study
because they had LDL of over 300 and long lives; it was large molecules.
LDL is an important factor in endocrine function and even the statin
pushers are saying that it's not the LDL lowering conferring benefits,
that it's some other mystery factor.

>
> When I was taking psyllium husks regularly my LDL and total cholesterol
> dropped but I stopped taking it when my body started reacting to it.The red
> rice yeast is a statin in the sense that Big Pharma turned the active
> ingredient into Lovastatin. RRY is the yeast the chinese use to make rice
> wine.

Here's something to chew on:

A comparison of lipid variables as predictors of cardiovascular disease
in the Asia Pacific region.

Barzi F, Patel A, Woodward M, Lawes CM, Ohkubo T, Gu D, Lam TH, Ueshima
H; Asia Pacific Cohort Studies Collaboration.

The George Institute for International Health, University of Sydney,
Camperdown, NSW 2050, Australia. fbarzi@thegeorgeinstitute.org

PURPOSE: Many guidelines advocate measurement of total or low density
lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL), high density lipoprotein cholesterol
(HDL), and triglycerides (TG) to determine treatment recommendations for
preventing coronary heart disease (CHD) and cardiovascular disease
(CVD). This analysis is a comparison of lipid variables as predictors of
cardiovascular disease. METHODS: Hazard ratios for coronary and
cardiovascular deaths by fourths of total cholesterol (TC), LDL, HDL,
TG, non-HDL, TC/HDL, and TG/HDL values, and for a one standard deviation
change in these variables, were derived in an individual participant
data meta-analysis of 32 cohort studies conducted in the Asia-Pacific
region. The predictive value of each lipid variable was assessed using
the likelihood ratio statistic. RESULTS: Adjusting for confounders and
regression dilution, each lipid variable had a positive (negative for
HDL) log-linear association with fatal CHD and CVD. Individuals in the
highest fourth of each lipid variable had approximately twice the risk
of CHD compared with those with lowest levels.

****TG and HDL were each better predictors of CHD and CVD risk compared
with TC alone, with test statistics similar to TC/HDL and TG/HDL ratios.
Calculated LDL was a relatively poor predictor. ****

****CONCLUSIONS: While LDL reduction remains the main target of
intervention for lipid-lowering, these data support the potential use of
TG or lipid ratios for CHD risk prediction.****

PMID: 15840555 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

"Miss Trish" <trishcat55@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:9a9f4d52-e2a5-4a77-acdc-

I was on the Prempro for about three years, I think. I was on birth
control pills before that. I've only been on the bioidenticals for
about a month. I haven't had my hormones tested in three or four
years, actually. I'm not sure who I could make an app't with that
would do that. Getting in to see another gyno would take months. Ah,
pursuing medical care is so exhausting and frustrating!

I'm just thinking that if I do this slowly enough, this taper, that
balancing might happen on its own.... wishful thinking? I do know the
body does try to balance and regulate itself.

Pat

If you are in a state of well being on the bioidenticals I would leave
things as is for the time being, especially since you just came off the
Prempro, but it would be a good idea to get the levels done to make sure
they aren't too high and I don't know if a state of feeling well on your
dose is an accurate way of assessing this. My ND does it through a blood
test or saliva levels which are supposed to be more accurate for all
hormones or you could get it done through a family doctor.

You could try the slow taper, a very slow taper since the discomforts will
return if you drop too quickly or you may just not be ready for it. My ND is
big on supporting adrenal function to see if that support will kick in the
estrogen/progesterone production. Suggesting bHRT is the last resort when
all else fails.I was on Deglyzhirized Licorice root for about a year for
this and I must say I did feel better and it really helped my mood swings.
Kept me off of antidepressants.Also try to alleviate or minimize adrenal
exhaustersoor nutrition, stress, inadequate sleep ( good sleep is the best
adrenal support) caffiene, alcohol, sugar, smoking...She feels if the
endocrine system is balanced women aren't supposed to have a difficult peri
and difficult peri is a result of the way we lead our lives these days and
deficient nutrition related to garbage in our food supply.

True? Who knows.

Roseanne

x-no-archive: yes

foggydoggy wrote:

> If you are in a state of well being on the bioidenticals I would leave
> things as is for the time being, especially since you just came off the
> Prempro, but it would be a good idea to get the levels done to make sure
> they aren't too high and I don't know if a state of feeling well on your
> dose is an accurate way of assessing this.

I think this is really good advice.


My ND does it through a blood
> test or saliva levels which are supposed to be more accurate for all
> hormones or you could get it done through a family doctor.

Saliva tests are very accurate for testing free hormones, and blood
tests can check for both bound and free hormones, so you can get a
complete picture if both are ordered.

>
> You could try the slow taper, a very slow taper since the discomforts will
> return if you drop too quickly or you may just not be ready for it. My ND is
> big on supporting adrenal function to see if that support will kick in the
> estrogen/progesterone production. Suggesting bHRT is the last resort when
> all else fails.I was on Deglyzhirized Licorice root for about a year for
> this and I must say I did feel better and it really helped my mood swings.
> Kept me off of antidepressants.Also try to alleviate or minimize adrenal
> exhaustersoor nutrition, stress, inadequate sleep ( good sleep is the best
> adrenal support) caffiene, alcohol, sugar, smoking...She feels if the
> endocrine system is balanced women aren't supposed to have a difficult peri
> and difficult peri is a result of the way we lead our lives these days and
> deficient nutrition related to garbage in our food supply.
>
> True? Who knows.

I think, and I know I sound like a broken record on this, that high carb
nutrition has a lot to do with epidemic adrenal suppression, obesity,
etc. Turns out that high insulin levels suppress adrenal function and
cortisol binding globulin, then also causes the pituitary to stary
overproducing inflammatory products trying to restimulate the adrenals.

Add to that stressors like inadequate sleep, sunlight avoidance, etc...
you've got a recipe for disaster. Adrenal and pituitary disorders also
really cluster in families.

Susan

"Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:66d07bF2grvdlU1@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> foggydoggy wrote:
>
>> I got muscle aches on 1200 mg of RRY and disappeared on 600 mg which I'm
>> still taking.The problem lies with the depletion of CoQ10 which I'm
>> taking 100 mg of highly absorbable.
>
> There is a problem with depletion of CoQ10, yes. But aches and pains are
> also a manifestation of adrenal suppression.

Interesting you say that because my muscle aches & joint pains have
returned, along with hot flashes, anxiety, palpitations and vaginal dryness
and at the moment I'm now undergoing plenty of stress.Stress= adrenal
fatigue= decreased sex hormones. Although you call it adrenal suppression,
all these years on a statin my adrenal hormones have all been at normal
levels except for occasional elevated cortisol levels, so there's no
suppression when you are able to produce cortisol.

> There is a familial hypercholesteremia on my
>> mother's side of family and it really does have to be treated.
>
> In my lay opinion and personal experience, no, it doesn't. The right diet
> will lower risks. No family has a worse CVD history than mine and my
> dyslipidemia reversed within two weeks of a major dietary change.

What kind of dietary changes did you make? My mother for 15 yrs did her
utmost to decrease her levels through strict dietary changes: low fat, no
saturated fat, semi vegetarian,whole grains etc.. heavy duty excercise, (2-3
hrs of cardio & calsithenics 5-6X/wk) and although the levels dropped they
still remained well above the normals. Couldn't get below 6.8 (Sorry, using
SI units, don't know the conversion to US parameters) She denied herself so
much and finally gave up after 15 yrs and started treating herself to
forbidden foods.My similiar dietary changes although not as rigid made
little difference henceforth I decided to go on the Crestor and enjoy
eating.
>
> My LDL was
>> definitely too high and needed to be treated but I had a decent HDL and
>> always had low triglycerides.All my adrenal hormones have been at normal
>> levels except certain times of stress in which cortisols were elevated.
>
> Have you read the research? Low TGL and higher HDL means the LDL is the
> bouyant, non damaging kind. I know someone whose family was in a study
> because they had LDL of over 300 and long lives; it was large molecules.
> LDL is an important factor in endocrine function and even the statin
> pushers are saying that it's not the LDL lowering conferring benefits,
> that it's some other mystery factors

Well I guess that's good to hear. So if my low triglycerides and high HDL
means it's the non damaging kind I can relax until the next research tells
me that they're wrong and it's back to square one.Till more conclusive
evidence comes out I can't be comfortable not being on RRY.

Roseanne

x-no-archive: yes

foggydoggy wrote:

> Interesting you say that because my muscle aches & joint pains have
> returned, along with hot flashes, anxiety, palpitations and vaginal dryness
> and at the moment I'm now undergoing plenty of stress.Stress= adrenal
> fatigue= decreased sex hormones. Although you call it adrenal suppression,
> all these years on a statin my adrenal hormones have all been at normal
> levels except for occasional elevated cortisol levels, so there's no
> suppression when you are able to produce cortisol.

That's completely incorrect. I ended up with extremely high cortisol,
which now cycles from normal to high to low, after years of extreme
adrenal suppression. In fact, rebound hypercortisolemia is the rule in
my case and some others following suppression. Can't explain the
mechanism, but it's kind of like a dog taking off once a leash is let go.


> What kind of dietary changes did you make?

Cut out starches and sugar, greatly increased fat and protein.

My mother for 15 yrs did her
> utmost to decrease her levels through strict dietary changes: low fat, no
> saturated fat, semi vegetarian,whole grains etc.. heavy duty excercise, (2-3
> hrs of cardio & calsithenics 5-6X/wk) and although the levels dropped they
> still remained well above the normals. Couldn't get below 6.8 (Sorry, using
> SI units, don't know the conversion to US parameters) She denied herself so
> much and finally gave up after 15 yrs and started treating herself to
> forbidden foods.My similiar dietary changes although not as rigid made
> little difference henceforth I decided to go on the Crestor and enjoy
> eating.

Yeah, that's the low fat, high carb diet that caused my labile
hypertension, PCOS and extreme insulin resistance til I traded it in for
fat and protein.

I enjoy my diet a LOT, a decade later, but it was a kind of evolution,
lots of incremental adjustments along the way.


> Well I guess that's good to hear. So if my low triglycerides and high HDL
> means it's the non damaging kind I can relax until the next research tells
> me that they're wrong and it's back to square one.Till more conclusive
> evidence comes out I can't be comfortable not being on RRY.

It's not the research that's telling us unreliable things, it's the
researchers and their spin. Ignore their conclusions and evaluate only
the data, subject selection and methodology. Skip the headlines in the
news and the bottom lines of the abstracts/studies.

Susan