Autism Story In The Vancouver Sun

Autism: what it is, and what it isn't [Comments in brackets are my
own.]

Pete McMartin
Vancouver Sun

In the course of doing this series, several times during those
interviews a parent or academic would mention "the Rain Man thing."

Probably, you've seen Rain Man -- the movie that featured Dustin
Hoffman in the role of a long-institutionalized adult with autism.
(Tom Cruise played his slimeball brother).

Hoffman's depiction of autism alternated between vacant stares and a
monotone recitation of trivia, punctuated by screaming fits when he
became frightened. He also exhibited a savant's computer-like talent
for numbers -- which Cruise's character used for his own profit.
It was in many ways an accurate portrayal of autism.

In many more ways, as those parents and academics well knew, it was
not.

The incidence of savantism, for instance, is statistically rare among
those with autism. Most are not human calculators.

And while many do exhibit that sense of isolation and removal from the
real world, there are degrees to those conditions, just as there are
degrees of severity to the types of autism.

Not that those with autism are emotional and intellectual voids. Many
show moments of love and need that are positively heart-rending. Many
are sweet-natured and inquisitive. One of the concerns of some parents
of children with autism is that their children can be too friendly and
too trusting, and thus can expose themselves to risk.

Simply put, there is no one profile that fits those diagnosed with
autism. So, to define what autism is, it might be best by pointing out
what it is not.

It is not a mental illness or a disease.

[if it is not a disease why are those suffering from it often given
the same medication as schizophrenics?]

It is a neurological and, ultimately, a biological disorder that
affects the normal development of the brain in areas of social
interaction, communication and sometimes cognitive skills. Usually,
that disorder manifests itself before the child reaches three. (More
on those symptoms and their diagnosis in a later instalment).

Autism is not a singularity.

It is a spectrum of disorders. On that spectrum are five related
disorders, the three most common of these being classic autistic
disorder (AD), pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise
specified (PDD-NOS) and Asperger's syndrome. {Many Asperger's patients
get the same drugs given to schizophrenics.] They share some
behaviours but not others. Those with AD, for example, are often
withdrawn and can be completely non-verbal, while those diagnosed with
Asperger's syndrome can have normal verbal and academic skills but
have extreme difficulty interacting socially with others.

There is no mental standard or median for those on the autism
spectrum.

Some have below-average intelligence, some are average and some are
above average.

Additionally, mental abilities can be uneven. A person on the autism
spectrum might be able to do complex math but be unable to tie his or
her own shoes.

Some are capable of holding jobs and of living independently or semi-
independently; some have the intellectual capacity to work but not the
social skills to make their way in the work environment; some must
receive 24-hour care their entire lives.

The causes of autism are still unknown.

There is no magic bullet for autism because science has yet to
identify the target. What causes autism disorders is still a matter of
scientific investigation and heated debate, just as there is a heated
debate over whether the number of cases is rising or not. (More on
causes and incidence in a later instalment.) [I have never met anyone
with autism not any one who said they had such a person in their
family. I've met at least three schizophrenics through work.]

In 1930, autism was first described in psychiatric literature as being
the social withdrawal observed in some schizophrenics. In 1943, John
Hopkins psychiatrist Leo Kanner was the first to describe it as a
discrete childhood disorder.

The confusion between autism and schizophrenia continued for years
afterwards, however, with the result that many people with autism
ended up being institutionalized for what was essentially a
misdiagnosis of mental illness (including, I was told more than once,
many of the former residents of Riverview). Even when autism was
recognized as a separate disorder, some of the theories behind its
cause were positively medieval. Even as late as the 1970s, it was
promoted by psychologists that "refrigerator mothers" -- mothers who
were distant and unnurturing -- caused autism in their children.

Autism is not curable.

It is a life-long condition. As one parent of a 12-year-old girl
diagnosed with severe autism said:

"Parents have to understand:

"This isn't a sprint. It's a marathon."

The initial symptoms, however, can be ameliorated through a
combination of intensive early childhood therapy and, it has to be
said, the fierce and protective love of parents and family.

pmcmartin@png.canwest.com or 604-605-2905

© Vancouver Sun 2007
================================================== ====================
The other article in the Vancouver Sun had one of these ppl nicknamed
as Bug as in as cute as a June bug. Nice enough nick but this person
with severe autism may be treated as a bug by ppl she meets in
adulthood. Many ppl with autism end up involved with drugs and alcohol
and being named Bug by her family will translate into insect and ppl
will want to stomp on her or burn her with magnifying glasses etc.
Hopefully these ppl will find the help and support systems they need.

"Greg Carr" <gregcarrsober@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177280376.006790.122950@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...

That was an interesting article.

"There is no magic bullet for autism because science has yet to
identify the target. What causes autism disorders is still a matter of
scientific investigation and heated debate, just as there is a heated
debate over whether the number of cases is rising or not. (More on
causes and incidence in a later instalment.) [I have never met anyone
with autism not any one who said they had such a person in their
family. I've met at least three schizophrenics through work.]"

A psychiatrist I know believes that autism diagnosis rates increased
markedly at the same time as, and because of, the inclusion of Asperger's
Syndrome as part of an "autistic spectrum." He also thinks it doesn't belong
there.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.

Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/

=====

On Apr 22, 11:19�pm, Greg Carr <gregcarrso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Autism: what it is, and what it isn't [Comments in brackets are my
> own.]
>
> Pete McMartin
> Vancouver Sun
>
> In the course of doing this series, several times during those
> interviews a parent or academic would mention "the Rain Man thing."
>
> Probably, you've seen Rain Man -- the movie that featured Dustin
> Hoffman in the role of a long-institutionalized adult with autism.
> (Tom Cruise played his slimeball brother).
>
> Hoffman's depiction of autism alternated between vacant stares and a
> monotone recitation of trivia, punctuated by screaming fits when he
> became frightened. He also exhibited a savant's computer-like talent
> for numbers -- which Cruise's character used for his own profit.
> It was in many ways an accurate portrayal of autism.
>
> In many more ways, as those parents and academics well knew, it was
> not.
>
> The incidence of savantism, for instance, is statistically rare among
> those with autism. Most are not human calculators.
>
> And while many do exhibit that sense of isolation and removal from the
> real world, there are degrees to those conditions, just as there are
> degrees of severity to the types of autism.
>
> Not that those with autism are emotional and intellectual voids. Many
> show moments of love and need that are positively heart-rending. Many
> are sweet-natured and inquisitive. One of the concerns of some parents
> of children with autism is that their children can be too friendly and
> too trusting, and thus can expose themselves to risk.
>
> Simply put, there is no one profile that fits those diagnosed with
> autism. So, to define what autism is, it might be best by pointing out
> what it is not.
>
> It is not a mental illness or a disease.
>
> [if it is not a disease why are those suffering from it often given
> the same medication as schizophrenics?]
>
> It is a neurological and, ultimately, a biological disorder that
> affects the normal development of the brain in areas of social
> interaction, communication and sometimes cognitive skills. Usually,
> that disorder manifests itself before the child reaches three. (More
> on those symptoms and their diagnosis in a later instalment).
>
> Autism is not a singularity.
>
> It is a spectrum of disorders. On that spectrum are five related
> disorders, the three most common of these being classic autistic
> disorder (AD), pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise
> specified (PDD-NOS) and Asperger's syndrome. {Many Asperger's patients
> get the same drugs given to schizophrenics.] They share some
> behaviours but not others. Those with AD, for example, are often
> withdrawn and can be completely non-verbal, while those diagnosed with
> Asperger's syndrome can have normal verbal and academic skills but
> have extreme difficulty interacting socially with others.
>
> There is no mental standard or median for those on the autism
> spectrum.
>
> Some have below-average intelligence, some are average and some are
> above average.
>
> Additionally, mental abilities can be uneven. A person on the autism
> spectrum might be able to do complex math but be unable to tie his or
> her own shoes.
>
> Some are capable of holding jobs and of living independently or semi-
> independently; some have the intellectual capacity to work but not the
> social skills to make their way in the work environment; some must
> receive 24-hour care their entire lives.
>
> The causes of autism are still unknown.
>
> There is no magic bullet for autism because science has yet to
> identify the target. What causes autism disorders is still a matter of
> scientific investigation and heated debate, just as there is a heated
> debate over whether the number of cases is rising or not. (More on
> causes and incidence in a later instalment.) [I have never met anyone
> with autism not any one who said they had such a person in their
> family. I've met at least three schizophrenics through work.]
>
> In 1930, autism was first described in psychiatric literature as being
> the social withdrawal observed in some schizophrenics. In 1943, John
> Hopkins psychiatrist Leo Kanner was the first to describe it as a
> discrete childhood disorder.
>
> The confusion between autism and schizophrenia continued for years
> afterwards, however, with the result that many people with autism
> ended up being institutionalized for what was essentially a
> misdiagnosis of mental illness (including, I was told more than once,
> many of the former residents of Riverview). Even when autism was
> recognized as a separate disorder, some of the theories behind its
> cause were positively medieval. Even as late as the 1970s, it was
> promoted by psychologists that "refrigerator mothers" -- mothers who
> were distant and unnurturing -- caused autism in their children.
>
> Autism is not curable.
>
> It is a life-long condition. As one parent of a 12-year-old girl
> diagnosed with severe autism said:
>
> "Parents have to understand:
>
> "This isn't a sprint. It's a marathon."
>
> The initial symptoms, however, can be ameliorated through a
> combination of intensive early childhood therapy and, it has to *be
> said, the fierce and protective love of parents and family.
>
> pmcmar...@png.canwest.com or 604-605-2905
>
> © Vancouver Sun 2007
> ================================================== ====================
> The other article in the Vancouver Sun had one of these ppl nicknamed
> as Bug as in as cute as a June bug. Nice enough nick but this person
> with severe autism may be treated as a bug by ppl she meets in
> adulthood. Many ppl with autism end up involved with drugs and alcohol
> and being named Bug by her family will translate into insect and ppl
> will want to stomp on her or burn her with magnifying glasses etc.
> Hopefully these ppl will find the help and support systems they need.

You have contradicted yourself. You say that autism is a disorder that
is not an disease. What do you mean by 'disorder'. I think you are
very mixed up with these ideas and are simply content to regurgitate
medical platitudes. You confuse impressive-looking diagnostic
categories with personality differences. Ultimately, you position has
much in common with a pharmaceutical or therapeutic eugenics.

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:57:29 -0700, "Nom dePlume"
<nomdeplume1000@yahoo.com> wrote:

>A psychiatrist I know believes that autism diagnosis rates increased
>markedly at the same time as, and because of, the inclusion of Asperger's
>Syndrome as part of an "autistic spectrum." He also thinks it doesn't belong
>there.

But how many autistics / AS has he talked to and actually *listened*
to?

Unfortunately both with real mental health issues, and conditions like
autism, ADHD, CFS, etc., far too much of the theorising is "top down"
and the "evidence" based on "lab rat" and "tick the box" - It also has
the habit of ignoring any evidence or inputs which might call into
question particular dogmas and neat classifications (a.k.a. the "prior
investment" problem).

--

Terry

On Apr 22, 3:19 pm, Greg Carr <gregcarrso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Autism: what it is, and what it isn't [Comments in brackets are my
> own.]
>
> Pete McMartin
> Vancouver Sun
>
> In the course of doing this series, several times during those
> interviews a parent or academic would mention "the Rain Man thing."
>
> Probably, you've seen Rain Man -- the movie that featured Dustin
> Hoffman in the role of a long-institutionalized adult with autism.
> (Tom Cruise played his slimeball brother).
>
> Hoffman's depiction of autism alternated between vacant stares and a
> monotone recitation of trivia, punctuated by screaming fits when he
> became frightened. He also exhibited a savant's computer-like talent
> for numbers -- which Cruise's character used for his own profit.
> It was in many ways an accurate portrayal of autism.
>
> In many more ways, as those parents and academics well knew, it was
> not.
>
> The incidence of savantism, for instance, is statistically rare among
> those with autism. Most are not human calculators.
>
> And while many do exhibit that sense of isolation and removal from the
> real world, there are degrees to those conditions, just as there are
> degrees of severity to the types of autism.
>
> Not that those with autism are emotional and intellectual voids. Many
> show moments of love and need that are positively heart-rending. Many
> are sweet-natured and inquisitive. One of the concerns of some parents
> of children with autism is that their children can be too friendly and
> too trusting, and thus can expose themselves to risk.
>
> Simply put, there is no one profile that fits those diagnosed with
> autism. So, to define what autism is, it might be best by pointing out
> what it is not.
>
> It is not a mental illness or a disease.
>
> [if it is not a disease why are those suffering from it often given
> the same medication as schizophrenics?]
>
> It is a neurological and, ultimately, a biological disorder that
> affects the normal development of the brain in areas of social
> interaction, communication and sometimes cognitive skills. Usually,
> that disorder manifests itself before the child reaches three. (More
> on those symptoms and their diagnosis in a later instalment).
>
> Autism is not a singularity.
>
> It is a spectrum of disorders. On that spectrum are five related
> disorders, the three most common of these being classic autistic
> disorder (AD), pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise
> specified (PDD-NOS) and Asperger's syndrome. {Many Asperger's patients
> get the same drugs given to schizophrenics.] They share some
> behaviours but not others. Those with AD, for example, are often
> withdrawn and can be completely non-verbal, while those diagnosed with
> Asperger's syndrome can have normal verbal and academic skills but
> have extreme difficulty interacting socially with others.
>
> There is no mental standard or median for those on the autism
> spectrum.
>
> Some have below-average intelligence, some are average and some are
> above average.
>
> Additionally, mental abilities can be uneven. A person on the autism
> spectrum might be able to do complex math but be unable to tie his or
> her own shoes.
>
> Some are capable of holding jobs and of living independently or semi-
> independently; some have the intellectual capacity to work but not the
> social skills to make their way in the work environment; some must
> receive 24-hour care their entire lives.
>
> The causes of autism are still unknown.
>
> There is no magic bullet for autism because science has yet to
> identify the target. What causes autism disorders is still a matter of
> scientific investigation and heated debate, just as there is a heated
> debate over whether the number of cases is rising or not. (More on
> causes and incidence in a later instalment.) [I have never met anyone
> with autism not any one who said they had such a person in their
> family. I've met at least three schizophrenics through work.]
>
> In 1930, autism was first described in psychiatric literature as being
> the social withdrawal observed in some schizophrenics. In 1943, John
> Hopkins psychiatrist Leo Kanner was the first to describe it as a
> discrete childhood disorder.
>
> The confusion between autism and schizophrenia continued for years
> afterwards, however, with the result that many people with autism
> ended up being institutionalized for what was essentially a
> misdiagnosis of mental illness (including, I was told more than once,
> many of the former residents of Riverview). Even when autism was
> recognized as a separate disorder, some of the theories behind its
> cause were positively medieval. Even as late as the 1970s, it was
> promoted by psychologists that "refrigerator mothers" -- mothers who
> were distant and unnurturing -- caused autism in their children.
>
> Autism is not curable.
>
> It is a life-long condition. As one parent of a 12-year-old girl
> diagnosed with severe autism said:
>
> "Parents have to understand:
>
> "This isn't a sprint. It's a marathon."
>
> The initial symptoms, however, can be ameliorated through a
> combination of intensive early childhood therapy and, it has to be
> said, the fierce and protective love of parents and family.
>
> pmcmar...@png.canwest.com or 604-605-2905
>
> © Vancouver Sun 2007
> ================================================== ====================
> The other article in the Vancouver Sun had one of these ppl nicknamed
> as Bug as in as cute as a June bug. Nice enough nick but this person
> with severe autism may be treated as a bug by ppl she meets in
> adulthood. Many ppl with autism end up involved with drugs and alcohol
> and being named Bug by her family will translate into insect and ppl
> will want to stomp on her or burn her with magnifying glasses etc.
> Hopefully these ppl will find the help and support systems they need.

Hi, some of you may remember Greg Carr, the nutjob who wants to bring
back the death penalty for witchcraft, homosexuality, and whatever
else happens to be a capital crime in the Old Testament.

Well, I was leafing through that book one day, and I happened across
the following passage: "He who speaks evil of his mother or father,
let him be put to death."

Greggy - I seem to recall you saying some pretty nasty things about
your Mom and Dad. That makes you guilty of a capital crime.

So..how come you're still alive? Seems to me you want to kill people
for other biblical crimes, you should be willing to endure voluntary
execution if that's what you really believe?

So how about it? You aren't a hypocrite are you? Hypocrites don't
get to go to heaven, Greggy. Better step up.

On Apr 23, 12:15 am, John Jones <jonescard...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Apr 22, 11:19?pm, Greg Carr <gregcarrso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Autism: what it is, and what it isn't [Comments in brackets are my
> > own.]
>
> > Pete McMartin
> > Vancouver Sun
>
> > In the course of doing this series, several times during those
> > interviews a parent or academic would mention "the Rain Man thing."
>
> > Probably, you've seen Rain Man -- the movie that featured Dustin
> > Hoffman in the role of a long-institutionalized adult with autism.
> > (Tom Cruise played his slimeball brother).
>
> > Hoffman's depiction of autism alternated between vacant stares and a
> > monotone recitation of trivia, punctuated by screaming fits when he
> > became frightened. He also exhibited a savant's computer-like talent
> > for numbers -- which Cruise's character used for his own profit.
> > It was in many ways an accurate portrayal of autism.
>
> > In many more ways, as those parents and academics well knew, it was
> > not.
>
> > The incidence of savantism, for instance, is statistically rare among
> > those with autism. Most are not human calculators.
>
> > And while many do exhibit that sense of isolation and removal from the
> > real world, there are degrees to those conditions, just as there are
> > degrees of severity to the types of autism.
>
> > Not that those with autism are emotional and intellectual voids. Many
> > show moments of love and need that are positively heart-rending. Many
> > are sweet-natured and inquisitive. One of the concerns of some parents
> > of children with autism is that their children can be too friendly and
> > too trusting, and thus can expose themselves to risk.
>
> > Simply put, there is no one profile that fits those diagnosed with
> > autism. So, to define what autism is, it might be best by pointing out
> > what it is not.
>
> > It is not a mental illness or a disease.
>
> > [if it is not a disease why are those suffering from it often given
> > the same medication as schizophrenics?]
>
> > It is a neurological and, ultimately, a biological disorder that
> > affects the normal development of the brain in areas of social
> > interaction, communication and sometimes cognitive skills. Usually,
> > that disorder manifests itself before the child reaches three. (More
> > on those symptoms and their diagnosis in a later instalment).
>
> > Autism is not a singularity.
>
> > It is a spectrum of disorders. On that spectrum are five related
> > disorders, the three most common of these being classic autistic
> > disorder (AD), pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise
> > specified (PDD-NOS) and Asperger's syndrome. {Many Asperger's patients
> > get the same drugs given to schizophrenics.] They share some
> > behaviours but not others. Those with AD, for example, are often
> > withdrawn and can be completely non-verbal, while those diagnosed with
> > Asperger's syndrome can have normal verbal and academic skills but
> > have extreme difficulty interacting socially with others.
>
> > There is no mental standard or median for those on the autism
> > spectrum.
>
> > Some have below-average intelligence, some are average and some are
> > above average.
>
> > Additionally, mental abilities can be uneven. A person on the autism
> > spectrum might be able to do complex math but be unable to tie his or
> > her own shoes.
>
> > Some are capable of holding jobs and of living independently or semi-
> > independently; some have the intellectual capacity to work but not the
> > social skills to make their way in the work environment; some must
> > receive 24-hour care their entire lives.
>
> > The causes of autism are still unknown.
>
> > There is no magic bullet for autism because science has yet to
> > identify the target. What causes autism disorders is still a matter of
> > scientific investigation and heated debate, just as there is a heated
> > debate over whether the number of cases is rising or not. (More on
> > causes and incidence in a later instalment.) [I have never met anyone
> > with autism not any one who said they had such a person in their
> > family. I've met at least three schizophrenics through work.]
>
> > In 1930, autism was first described in psychiatric literature as being
> > the social withdrawal observed in some schizophrenics. In 1943, John
> > Hopkins psychiatrist Leo Kanner was the first to describe it as a
> > discrete childhood disorder.
>
> > The confusion between autism and schizophrenia continued for years
> > afterwards, however, with the result that many people with autism
> > ended up being institutionalized for what was essentially a
> > misdiagnosis of mental illness (including, I was told more than once,
> > many of the former residents of Riverview). Even when autism was
> > recognized as a separate disorder, some of the theories behind its
> > cause were positively medieval. Even as late as the 1970s, it was
> > promoted by psychologists that "refrigerator mothers" -- mothers who
> > were distant and unnurturing -- caused autism in their children.
>
> > Autism is not curable.
>
> > It is a life-long condition. As one parent of a 12-year-old girl
> > diagnosed with severe autism said:
>
> > "Parents have to understand:
>
> > "This isn't a sprint. It's a marathon."
>
> > The initial symptoms, however, can be ameliorated through a
> > combination of intensive early childhood therapy and, it has to ?be
> > said, the fierce and protective love of parents and family.
>
> > pmcmar...@png.canwest.com or 604-605-2905
>
> > ? Vancouver Sun 2007
> > ================================================== ====================
> > The other article in the Vancouver Sun had one of these ppl nicknamed
> > as Bug as in as cute as a June bug. Nice enough nick but this person
> > with severe autism may be treated as a bug by ppl she meets in
> > adulthood. Many ppl with autism end up involved with drugs and alcohol
> > and being named Bug by her family will translate into insect and ppl
> > will want to stomp on her or burn her with magnifying glasses etc.
> > Hopefully these ppl will find the help and support systems they need.
>
> You have contradicted yourself. You say that autism is a disorder that
> is not an disease. What do you mean by 'disorder'. I think you are
> very mixed up with these ideas and are simply content to regurgitate
> medical platitudes. You confuse impressive-looking diagnostic
> categories with personality differences. Ultimately, you position has
> much in common with a pharmaceutical or therapeutic eugenics.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I think your refering to the original newspaper article writer not
myself. If it is just a matter of personality then in theory it should
be easier to change the behavior if the person is willing to.

On Apr 23, 7:50 am, sbm2...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Apr 22, 3:19 pm, Greg Carr <gregcarrso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Autism: what it is, and what it isn't [Comments in brackets are my
> > own.]
>
> > Pete McMartin
> > Vancouver Sun
>
> > In the course of doing this series, several times during those
> > interviews a parent or academic would mention "the Rain Man thing."
>
> > Probably, you've seen Rain Man -- the movie that featured Dustin
> > Hoffman in the role of a long-institutionalized adult with autism.
> > (Tom Cruise played his slimeball brother).
>
> > Hoffman's depiction of autism alternated between vacant stares and a
> > monotone recitation of trivia, punctuated by screaming fits when he
> > became frightened. He also exhibited a savant's computer-like talent
> > for numbers -- which Cruise's character used for his own profit.
> > It was in many ways an accurate portrayal of autism.
>
> > In many more ways, as those parents and academics well knew, it was
> > not.
>
> > The incidence of savantism, for instance, is statistically rare among
> > those with autism. Most are not human calculators.
>
> > And while many do exhibit that sense of isolation and removal from the
> > real world, there are degrees to those conditions, just as there are
> > degrees of severity to the types of autism.
>
> > Not that those with autism are emotional and intellectual voids. Many
> > show moments of love and need that are positively heart-rending. Many
> > are sweet-natured and inquisitive. One of the concerns of some parents
> > of children with autism is that their children can be too friendly and
> > too trusting, and thus can expose themselves to risk.
>
> > Simply put, there is no one profile that fits those diagnosed with
> > autism. So, to define what autism is, it might be best by pointing out
> > what it is not.
>
> > It is not a mental illness or a disease.
>
> > [if it is not a disease why are those suffering from it often given
> > the same medication as schizophrenics?]
>
> > It is a neurological and, ultimately, a biological disorder that
> > affects the normal development of the brain in areas of social
> > interaction, communication and sometimes cognitive skills. Usually,
> > that disorder manifests itself before the child reaches three. (More
> > on those symptoms and their diagnosis in a later instalment).
>
> > Autism is not a singularity.
>
> > It is a spectrum of disorders. On that spectrum are five related
> > disorders, the three most common of these being classic autistic
> > disorder (AD), pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise
> > specified (PDD-NOS) and Asperger's syndrome. {Many Asperger's patients
> > get the same drugs given to schizophrenics.] They share some
> > behaviours but not others. Those with AD, for example, are often
> > withdrawn and can be completely non-verbal, while those diagnosed with
> > Asperger's syndrome can have normal verbal and academic skills but
> > have extreme difficulty interacting socially with others.
>
> > There is no mental standard or median for those on the autism
> > spectrum.
>
> > Some have below-average intelligence, some are average and some are
> > above average.
>
> > Additionally, mental abilities can be uneven. A person on the autism
> > spectrum might be able to do complex math but be unable to tie his or
> > her own shoes.
>
> > Some are capable of holding jobs and of living independently or semi-
> > independently; some have the intellectual capacity to work but not the
> > social skills to make their way in the work environment; some must
> > receive 24-hour care their entire lives.
>
> > The causes of autism are still unknown.
>
> > There is no magic bullet for autism because science has yet to
> > identify the target. What causes autism disorders is still a matter of
> > scientific investigation and heated debate, just as there is a heated
> > debate over whether the number of cases is rising or not. (More on
> > causes and incidence in a later instalment.) [I have never met anyone
> > with autism not any one who said they had such a person in their
> > family. I've met at least three schizophrenics through work.]
>
> > In 1930, autism was first described in psychiatric literature as being
> > the social withdrawal observed in some schizophrenics. In 1943, John
> > Hopkins psychiatrist Leo Kanner was the first to describe it as a
> > discrete childhood disorder.
>
> > The confusion between autism and schizophrenia continued for years
> > afterwards, however, with the result that many people with autism
> > ended up being institutionalized for what was essentially a
> > misdiagnosis of mental illness (including, I was told more than once,
> > many of the former residents of Riverview). Even when autism was
> > recognized as a separate disorder, some of the theories behind its
> > cause were positively medieval. Even as late as the 1970s, it was
> > promoted by psychologists that "refrigerator mothers" -- mothers who
> > were distant and unnurturing -- caused autism in their children.
>
> > Autism is not curable.
>
> > It is a life-long condition. As one parent of a 12-year-old girl
> > diagnosed with severe autism said:
>
> > "Parents have to understand:
>
> > "This isn't a sprint. It's a marathon."
>
> > The initial symptoms, however, can be ameliorated through a
> > combination of intensive early childhood therapy and, it has to be
> > said, the fierce and protective love of parents and family.
>
> > pmcmar...@png.canwest.com or 604-605-2905
>
> > © Vancouver Sun 2007
> > ================================================== ====================
> > The other article in the Vancouver Sun had one of these ppl nicknamed
> > as Bug as in as cute as a June bug. Nice enough nick but this person
> > with severe autism may be treated as a bug by ppl she meets in
> > adulthood. Many ppl with autism end up involved with drugs and alcohol
> > and being named Bug by her family will translate into insect and ppl
> > will want to stomp on her or burn her with magnifying glasses etc.
> > Hopefully these ppl will find the help and support systems they need.
>
> Hi, some of you may remember Greg Carr, the nutjob who wants to bring
> back the death penalty for witchcraft, homosexuality, and whatever
> else happens to be a capital crime in the Old Testament.
>
> Well, I was leafing through that book one day, and I happened across
> the following passage: "He who speaks evil of his mother or father,
> let him be put to death."
>
> Greggy - I seem to recall you saying some pretty nasty things about
> your Mom and Dad. That makes you guilty of a capital crime.
>
> So..how come you're still alive? Seems to me you want to kill people
> for other biblical crimes, you should be willing to endure voluntary
> execution if that's what you really believe?
>
> So how about it? You aren't a hypocrite are you? Hypocrites don't
> get to go to heaven, Greggy. Better step up.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

This poster is best put in a kill file. Maybe one day it will be
capable of starting threads and sexual relationships not involving
cash payment but I'm not optimistic.

sbm2006@shaw.ca wrote:
> Greggy - I seem to recall you saying some pretty nasty things about
> your Mom and Dad. That makes you guilty of a capital crime.
>
> So..how come you're still alive? Seems to me you want to kill people
> for other biblical crimes, you should be willing to endure voluntary
> execution if that's what you really believe?
>
> So how about it? You aren't a hypocrite are you? Hypocrites don't
> get to go to heaven, Greggy. Better step up.

Yes, Smeg is a hypocrit -- and, yes, of all the evil sins of the "old
testament", Jesus didn't preach against any of it. . . what DID Jesus preach
against constantly & consistently? Hypocrisy & Sanctimoniousness. . .

I can prove that Greg has committed, in God's eyes, a FAR worse sin than either
homosexuality or even murder(or abortion)!

The fact that Greg is more focussed on judging others is proof positive he's
not seeking forgiveness for his own crimes. . .


--

Because I care,

|<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-
note new preferred reply email: Cyberpope67(at)yahoo(dot)com
(replies to this vcn address likely to be auto-deleted without reading)

PS This post specially encoded for verification purposes
--
..
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
..

On Apr 23, 7:29�pm, Greg Carr <gregcarrso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 23, 12:15 am, John Jones <jonescard...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 22, 11:19?pm, Greg *Carr <gregcarrso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Autism: what it is, and what it isn't [Comments in brackets are my
> > > own.]
>
> > > Pete McMartin
> > > Vancouver Sun
>
> > > In the course of doing this series, several times during those
> > > interviews a parent or academic would mention "the Rain Man thing."
>
> > > Probably, you've seen Rain Man -- the movie that featured Dustin
> > > Hoffman in the role of a long-institutionalized adult with autism.
> > > (Tom Cruise played his slimeball brother).
>
> > > Hoffman's depiction of autism alternated between vacant stares and a
> > > monotone recitation of trivia, punctuated by screaming fits when he
> > > became frightened. He also exhibited a savant's computer-like talent
> > > for numbers -- which Cruise's character used for his own profit.
> > > It was in many ways an accurate portrayal of autism.
>
> > > In many more ways, as those parents and academics well knew, it was
> > > not.
>
> > > The incidence of savantism, for instance, is statistically rare among
> > > those with autism. Most are not human calculators.
>
> > > And while many do exhibit that sense of isolation and removal from the
> > > real world, there are degrees to those conditions, just as there are
> > > degrees of severity to the types of autism.
>
> > > Not that those with autism are emotional and intellectual voids. Many
> > > show moments of love and need that are positively heart-rending. Many
> > > are sweet-natured and inquisitive. One of the concerns of some parents
> > > of children with autism is that their children can be too friendly and
> > > too trusting, and thus can expose themselves to risk.
>
> > > Simply put, there is no one profile that fits those diagnosed with
> > > autism. So, to define what autism is, it might be best by pointing out
> > > what it is not.
>
> > > It is not a mental illness or a disease.
>
> > > [if it is not a disease why are those suffering from it often given
> > > the same medication as schizophrenics?]
>
> > > It is a neurological and, ultimately, a biological disorder that
> > > affects the normal development of the brain in areas of social
> > > interaction, communication and sometimes cognitive skills. Usually,
> > > that disorder manifests itself before the child reaches three. (More
> > > on those symptoms and their diagnosis in a later instalment).
>
> > > Autism is not a singularity.
>
> > > It is a spectrum of disorders. On that spectrum are five related
> > > disorders, the three most common of these being classic autistic
> > > disorder (AD), pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise
> > > specified (PDD-NOS) and Asperger's syndrome. {Many Asperger's patients
> > > get the same drugs given to schizophrenics.] They share some
> > > behaviours but not others. Those with AD, for example, are often
> > > withdrawn and can be completely non-verbal, while those diagnosed with
> > > Asperger's syndrome can have normal verbal and academic skills but
> > > have extreme difficulty interacting socially with others.
>
> > > There is no mental standard or median for those on the autism
> > > spectrum.
>
> > > Some have below-average intelligence, some are average and some are
> > > above average.
>
> > > Additionally, mental abilities can be uneven. A person on the autism
> > > spectrum might be able to do complex math but be unable to tie his or
> > > her own shoes.
>
> > > Some are capable of holding jobs and of living independently or semi-
> > > independently; some have the intellectual capacity to work but not the
> > > social skills to make their way in the work environment; some must
> > > receive 24-hour care their entire lives.
>
> > > The causes of autism are still unknown.
>
> > > There is no magic bullet for autism because science has yet to
> > > identify the target. What causes autism disorders is still a matter of
> > > scientific investigation and heated debate, just as there is a heated
> > > debate over whether the number of cases is rising or not. (More on
> > > causes and incidence in a later instalment.) [I have never met anyone
> > > with autism not any one who said they had such a person in their
> > > family. I've met at least three schizophrenics through work.]
>
> > > In 1930, autism was first described in psychiatric literature as being
> > > the social withdrawal observed in some schizophrenics. In 1943, John
> > > Hopkins psychiatrist Leo Kanner was the first to describe it as a
> > > discrete childhood disorder.
>
> > > The confusion between autism and schizophrenia continued for years
> > > afterwards, however, with the result that many people with autism
> > > ended up being institutionalized for what was essentially a
> > > misdiagnosis of mental illness (including, I was told more than once,
> > > many of the former residents of Riverview). Even when autism was
> > > recognized as a separate disorder, some of the theories behind its
> > > cause were positively medieval. Even as late as the 1970s, it was
> > > promoted by psychologists that "refrigerator mothers" -- mothers who
> > > were distant and unnurturing -- caused autism in their children.
>
> > > Autism is not curable.
>
> > > It is a life-long condition. As one parent of a 12-year-old girl
> > > diagnosed with severe autism said:
>
> > > "Parents have to understand:
>
> > > "This isn't a sprint. It's a marathon."
>
> > > The initial symptoms, however, can be ameliorated through a
> > > combination of intensive early childhood therapy and, it has to ?be
> > > said, the fierce and protective love of parents and family.
>
> > > pmcmar...@png.canwest.com or 604-605-2905
>
> > > ? Vancouver Sun 2007
> > > ================================================== ====================
> > > The other article in the Vancouver Sun had one of these ppl nicknamed
> > > as Bug as in as cute as a June bug. Nice enough nick but this person
> > > with severe autism may be treated as a bug by ppl she meets in
> > > adulthood. Many ppl with autism end up involved with drugs and alcohol
> > > and being named Bug by her family will translate into insect and ppl
> > > will want to stomp on her or burn her with magnifying glasses etc.
> > > Hopefully these ppl will find the help and support systems they need.
>
> > You have contradicted yourself. You say that autism is a disorder that
> > is not an disease. What do you mean by 'disorder'. I think you are
> > very mixed up with these ideas and are simply content to regurgitate
> > medical platitudes. You confuse impressive-looking diagnostic
> > categories with personality differences. Ultimately, you position has
> > much in common with a pharmaceutical or therapeutic eugenics.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I think your refering to the original newspaper article writer not
> myself. If it is just a matter of personality then in theory it should
> be easier to change the behavior if the person is willing to.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It's not easy to change anyone to be something they are not. There
isn't a natural gravitation to a 'normal behaviour'.

"Greg Carr" <gregcarrsober@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177280376.006790.122950@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
> if [autism] is not a disease why are those suffering from it often
> given the same medication as schizophrenics?

Two reasons off the top of my head:

(1) It's a mistake. The doctors shouldn't be giving them that
medication, but they do. Mistakes happen.

(2) The medication is to treat certain symptoms, and not schizophrenia
itself. If an autistic person has the same symptoms, it may make sense to
give them that same medication.

- Oliver

On Apr 24, 11:31 am, "Oliver Wong" <o...@castortech.com> wrote:
> "Greg Carr" <gregcarrso...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1177280376.006790.122950@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>
> > if [autism] is not a disease why are those suffering from it often
> > given the same medication as schizophrenics?
>
> Two reasons off the top of my head:
>
> (1) It's a mistake. The doctors shouldn't be giving them that
> medication, but they do. Mistakes happen.
>
> (2) The medication is to treat certain symptoms, and not schizophrenia
> itself. If an autistic person has the same symptoms, it may make sense to
> give them that same medication.
>
> - Oliver

I have seen a W5 special on autism and it was shown that two types of
therapy had a high level of curing it. One was an intensive huggy
feely love type therapy the other electric shock. I have also read
recently in the Vancouver Sun that there is no such thing as an actual
cure just new behaviour patterns. All medications regarding
schizophrenia have horrible side effects and the idea that these are
being given to autistic ppl as a way of saving money instead of the
therapy option is abhorent. Worse patients are now being told to use
meds for six months before forming an opinion while in the past it was
2-8 weeks. By waiting longer the misdiagnosed are caused to suffer
longer while their original problem goes on.

Greg Carr wrote:
> I have seen a W5 special on autism and it was shown that two types of
> therapy had a high level of curing it. One was an intensive huggy
> feely love type therapy the other electric shock. I have also read
> recently in the Vancouver Sun that there is no such thing as an actual
> cure just new behaviour patterns.

There is no cure for autism period. I don't see how electric shock could
have much effect. I have had it for depression and it didn't seem to make me
less autistic.

Gareeth

On 25 Apr 2007 18:14:17 -0700, Greg Carr <gregcarrsober@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I have seen a W5 special on autism and it was shown that two types of
>therapy had a high level of curing it. One was an intensive huggy
>feely love type therapy the other electric shock. I have also read
>recently in the Vancouver Sun that there is no such thing as an actual
>cure just new behaviour patterns.

Well the Sun is right in that there's no "cure", that would require
"rewiring" someone's brain.

But the W5 "therapies" seem to be pure snake-oil - Theories of
psychological "causes" of autism, to which an "intensive huggy
feely" approach would be aimed, have long been discredited.

And especially for autistics with sensory problems, enforced touching
and hugging would be *extremely" distressing - essentially a form of
abuse.

It's true that deep pressure is helpful to a proportion of autistics,
but this is essentially a stress reliever / "recharging" enabler, and
by no means a "cure" - And as far as I know, it has to be repeated
regularly as needed, lifelong.

As for "electric shock", there are two forms of this - There is ECT
which involve shocks applied to the brain, which isn't intended for
long term use, which produces short term disruption meant to break
someone out of a cycle of depression.

Then there are electric shocks used as "aversives" to try and "train
out" certain behaviours - this would generally be considered abusive,
and isn't used in modern behavioural "therapies".

(Plus there's a considerable question mark over many of the claims
made for the behavioural approach - it has its' uses, but the claims
made for it with respect to autism do appear to have been considerably
exaggerated, and its' long-term benefits never scientifically
examined.)

Whoever researched the W5 item is way, way out of date, back in the
"dark ages" of autism "therapy"

--

Terry

Autistic people have been found to lack an amazing portion of the
brain that we have, therefore, autism is caused by genetics. Whether it
is a disease or not is determined by the "establishement". For example,
Double Y Syndrome is treated like a crime and called a disease, yet, all
Cro Magnon men were found to also be Double Y. In reality, Double Y is a
race and is due all the respect and human rights that is due to any
members of a race.
That amazing portion of the brain, that autistic people lack,
causes us to mirror in the brain the intentions of any person we are
interacting with. Autistic people have poor communications skills due to
lacking this portion of the brain.
But, as it was said, autism is more than one thing. Also,
schizophrenia is an assortment of about a thousand different brain
conditions. Dopamine blockers are used on these and other people simply
as a legal baseball bat. Dopamine blockers devastate thier victims by
blocking the reward system of the brain. Dopamine blockers and shock
treatments are "cruel and unusual punishments" forbidden by the Eighth
Amendment of the Constitution.