Benign Voices.

Is it right to shut out the voices with medication if they are benign?
Somehow I don't think so. My voices work for my mutual advancement and
beneficial acceleration into a better understanding of the world
around me.

Or is this delusional?

On 24 jul, 20:53, ChrisC <chrisp...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Is it right to shut out the voices with medication if they are benign?
> Somehow I don't think so. My voices work for my mutual advancement and
> beneficial acceleration into a better understanding of the world
> around me.
>
> Or is this delusional?

Some sz choose to live with their symptoms rather than take meds.

If you stay stable and don't become too psychotic and still be able
to
think logically while hearing the voices.

Personally I rather be without them, they may be benign in the
beginning
but in the end I am going to do things I wouldn't do if I am without
symptoms.


Berty

On Jul 24, 2:53 pm, ChrisC <chrisp...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Is it right to shut out the voices with medication if they are benign?
> Somehow I don't think so. My voices work for my mutual advancement and
> beneficial acceleration into a better understanding of the world
> around me.
>
> Or is this delusional?

I think that one should take as little medication as possible,
consistent with _appearing_ normal to others. I believe if you _can_
act normal and you _want_ to act normal, there's no need to worry
about whether your _thoughts_ are normal.

If I can act normal and not feel the need to discuss my odder feelings
and ideas with normal people who would be disturbed by them, then I
think I'm taking enough medication.

I feel like ideas of reference come in a stream that's almost like a
"sign-language" equivalent of a voice, and I value the input that I
get that way. It's addicting and enjoyable, as long as I keep in mind
that any of my interpretations can be and frequently are wrong.

On Jul 25, 6:52*am, Pies de Arcilla <dearci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 24, 2:53 pm, ChrisC <chrisp...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is it right to shut out the voices with medication if they are benign?
> > Somehow I don't think so. My voices work for my mutual advancement and
> > beneficial acceleration into a better understanding of the world
> > around me.
>
> > Or is this delusional?
>
> I think that one should take as little medication as possible,
> consistent with _appearing_ normal to others. I believe if you _can_
> act normal and you _want_ to act normal, there's no need to worry
> about whether your _thoughts_ are normal.
>
> If I can act normal and not feel the need to discuss my odder feelings
> and ideas with normal people who would be disturbed by them, then I
> think I'm taking enough medication.
>
> I feel like ideas of reference come in a stream that's almost like a
> "sign-language" equivalent of a voice, and I value the input that I
> get that way. It's addicting and enjoyable, as long as I keep in mind
> that any of my interpretations can be and frequently are wrong.

I'm still taking my medication. Although in such a state of high alert
aka stress. Voices and strange feelings of otherworldlyness are
breaking through. I will be seeing my Pdoc in two weeks. In the mean
time I have a prescription of Amitriptyline, Sulpiride and Diazepam to
collect today.

The Diazepam normally helps take the edge off of everything.

Dopamine blockers don't shut out "voices" or any other
halluciniation. Dopamine blockers just take your mind off of everything
by the misery caused by having your brain's reward system blocked.
Spiritualists have spirit guides. And some Spiritualists have so
many spirit guides that they need to appoint a boss to manager them,
called a "gate keeper".
Pentecostal Christians consider these spirit guides to be fallen
angels of Satan, not the spirits of the deceased that the Spiritualists
believe that they are.
Witches can order their spirit guides to assume the forms of their
favorite actor and actresses. Then they refer to them by the names these
actors and actresses played in thier favorite movies.
This flexability and skill of the spirit guides indicates that
they have the abilities that the human deceased most likely wouldn't
have and are therefore actually fallen angels.
But then, Pentecostal Christians are told to believe that all
their voices are from God. And, they are told to obey the voice of God.
Today, governmental psychiatric systems don't seem to want to mess
with religion. And, you can walk out on private psychiatric systems,
but, only governmental psychiatric systems can be imposed. But, it looks
like they have their limits now.

On Jul 25, 5:57 am, gellie...@webtv.net (Miguel Alberto) wrote:
> But then, Pentecostal Christians are told to believe that all
> their voices are from God. And, they are told to obey the voice of God.

In a metaphorical sense, I think that voices can be from God or the
Devil, and you can never know which for sure. If they're telling you
the truth, then they're from God, but if they're lies, then the Devil
is testing you.

On 25 jul, 19:00, Pies de Arcilla <dearci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 25, 5:57 am, gellie...@webtv.net (Miguel Alberto) wrote:
>
> > * * * But then, Pentecostal Christians are told to believe that all
> > their voices are from God. And, they are told to obey the voice of God.
>
> In a metaphorical sense, I think that voices can be from God or the
> Devil, and you can never know which for sure. If they're telling you
> the truth, then they're from God, but if they're lies, then the Devil
> is testing you.

If you talk to a p-doc he would say the voices are fabrications of
your own mind.

However from my own experiences I have to say, they are too origional
and complex to be just a random thought generated by a malfunctioning
mind. I sought anwers in telepathy, spirits, aliens whatever..
So far I don't think the voices are god or the devil, because in my
case they are distinct characters with voices of a man or woman and
they are many. Maybe the devil can fabricate more personalities, who
knows. Other explanations are demons or angels. So far they haven't
been agressive to me, just nosy and strict.

Berty

When a voice has ordered you to do anything, always check it out
with the Bible. If it's not Biblical, don't do it.
A number plate suggested, by the number symbolism I have, to look
up a past personal journal. I did, and I'm very glad I did. A being who
knows your personal symbol system and can arrange for a car to be in
front of you with that number plate, has to be God.
My voices have said words I had to look up in the dictionary. They
were always in proper context.

There is no transcendental. Neither God or the Devil exist. Voices are a
clever concoction emerging from the unconscious. It is very easy to be
deceived by them. If you trust them you can land up in hot water. Better
investigate suitable drugs with your psychiatrist to eliminate them. If they
turn nasty it can be very frightening and dangerous to yourself. (Read my
poem 'Skiathos' if you want a classic description of what once happened to
me)


--
Douglas Clark ..................... Bath, Somerset, UK ......
http://usergroup.plus.net .......... http://www.dgdclynx.plus.com

I posted the poem separately..

--
Douglas Clark ..................... Bath, Somerset, UK ......
http://usergroup.plus.net .......... http://www.dgdclynx.plus.com

On Jul 26, 2:30 am, "Douglas Clark" <dgdcl...@dgdclynx.plus.com>
wrote:
> There is no transcendental. Neither God or the Devil exist.

I think that the historical ideas of God and the Devil ultimately came
from "voices" and similar experiences. If you take a dualistic view of
this sort of thing, everything can be classified as from "God" if
true, and from the "Devil" if false.

"Pies de Arcilla" <dearcilla@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cbc4d6b5-f2c8-45e5-80a8-5705f1aba177@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 26, 2:30 am, "Douglas Clark" <dgdcl...@dgdclynx.plus.com>
> wrote:
>> There is no transcendental. Neither God or the Devil exist.
>
> I think that the historical ideas of God and the Devil ultimately came
> from "voices" and similar experiences. If you take a dualistic view of
> this sort of thing, everything can be classified as from "God" if
> true, and from the "Devil" if false.

Yes. The shamans used drugs to hear those voices. But they came from within
the shaman.

"Douglas Clark" <dgdclynx@dgdclynx.plus.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:u6CdnXuf6rx-DBbVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> "Pies de Arcilla" <dearcilla@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cbc4d6b5-f2c8-45e5-80a8-5705f1aba177@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 26, 2:30 am, "Douglas Clark" <dgdcl...@dgdclynx.plus.com>
>> wrote:
>>> There is no transcendental. Neither God or the Devil exist.
>>
>> I think that the historical ideas of God and the Devil ultimately came
>> from "voices" and similar experiences. If you take a dualistic view of
>> this sort of thing, everything can be classified as from "God" if
>> true, and from the "Devil" if false.
>
> Yes. The shamans used drugs to hear those voices. But they came from
> within the shaman.
>
>

No they didn´t come from the shaman, they came from the plants. I know
because i lived a few weeks with a mushroomhealer and they told me.

"rainbowguardian" <robert_smrdelj@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:6f2hkuF9hp4vU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Douglas Clark" <dgdclynx@dgdclynx.plus.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:u6CdnXuf6rx-DBbVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>> "Pies de Arcilla" <dearcilla@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:cbc4d6b5-f2c8-45e5-80a8-5705f1aba177@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Jul 26, 2:30 am, "Douglas Clark" <dgdcl...@dgdclynx.plus.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> There is no transcendental. Neither God or the Devil exist.
>>>
>>> I think that the historical ideas of God and the Devil ultimately came
>>> from "voices" and similar experiences. If you take a dualistic view of
>>> this sort of thing, everything can be classified as from "God" if
>>> true, and from the "Devil" if false.
>>
>> Yes. The shamans used drugs to hear those voices. But they came from
>> within the shaman.
>>
>>
>
> No they didn´t come from the shaman, they came from the plants. I know
> because i lived a few weeks with a mushroomhealer and they told me.
>
They came from inside the shaman's head after the taking of the drugs like
mushrooms etc. Not from the mushrooms. Before monotheism etc religion was
shaman-based .

"Douglas Clark" <dgdclynx@dgdclynx.plus.com> wrote in message
news:eL-dneNRzKobhhHVnZ2dnUVZ8vOdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> "rainbowguardian" <robert_smrdelj@gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:6f2hkuF9hp4vU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Douglas Clark" <dgdclynx@dgdclynx.plus.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> news:u6CdnXuf6rx-DBbVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>> "Pies de Arcilla" <dearcilla@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:cbc4d6b5-f2c8-45e5-80a8-5705f1aba177@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Jul 26, 2:30 am, "Douglas Clark" <dgdcl...@dgdclynx.plus.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> There is no transcendental. Neither God or the Devil exist.
>>>>
>>>> I think that the historical ideas of God and the Devil ultimately came
>>>> from "voices" and similar experiences. If you take a dualistic view of
>>>> this sort of thing, everything can be classified as from "God" if
>>>> true, and from the "Devil" if false.
>>>
>>> Yes. The shamans used drugs to hear those voices. But they came from
>>> within the shaman.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No they didn´t come from the shaman, they came from the plants. I know
>> because i lived a few weeks with a mushroomhealer and they told me.
>>
> They came from inside the shaman's head after the taking of the drugs like
> mushrooms etc. Not from the mushrooms. Before monotheism etc religion was
> shaman-based .
>
I should have added that shamans are a world-wide phenomenum and I think it
would be incorrect to tie them down to just one drug. But the basic thing is
that the shamans induced the visions, voices from their own unconscious, not
from the supernatural. This new theory of epigenetics is fascinating cos I
believe it gives support to Jung's idea of archetypes passing down the
generations. The vision of the Devil doesnt seem to have changed much over
thousands of years.

"Douglas Clark" <dgdclynx@dgdclynx.plus.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:eL-dneNRzKobhhHVnZ2dnUVZ8vOdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> "rainbowguardian" <robert_smrdelj@gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:6f2hkuF9hp4vU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Douglas Clark" <dgdclynx@dgdclynx.plus.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> news:u6CdnXuf6rx-DBbVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>> "Pies de Arcilla" <dearcilla@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:cbc4d6b5-f2c8-45e5-80a8-5705f1aba177@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Jul 26, 2:30 am, "Douglas Clark" <dgdcl...@dgdclynx.plus.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> There is no transcendental. Neither God or the Devil exist.
>>>>
>>>> I think that the historical ideas of God and the Devil ultimately came
>>>> from "voices" and similar experiences. If you take a dualistic view of
>>>> this sort of thing, everything can be classified as from "God" if
>>>> true, and from the "Devil" if false.
>>>
>>> Yes. The shamans used drugs to hear those voices. But they came from
>>> within the shaman.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No they didn´t come from the shaman, they came from the plants. I know
>> because i lived a few weeks with a mushroomhealer and they told me.
>>
> They came from inside the shaman's head after the taking of the drugs like
> mushrooms etc. Not from the mushrooms. Before monotheism etc religion was
> shaman-based .

NO, do you think the mushroom healer don´t know their art and they are lying
to me or what?
Do you think you know better than the healer and that the healer is stupid
or what?
You mofo, go somewhere else and spread your lies there!

Greetings
Bob the flyer

"rainbowguardian" <robert_smrdelj@gmx.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:6f2l16F9bn96U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Douglas Clark" <dgdclynx@dgdclynx.plus.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:eL-dneNRzKobhhHVnZ2dnUVZ8vOdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>> "rainbowguardian" <robert_smrdelj@gmx.de> wrote in message
>> news:6f2hkuF9hp4vU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Douglas Clark" <dgdclynx@dgdclynx.plus.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>>> news:u6CdnXuf6rx-DBbVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>>> "Pies de Arcilla" <dearcilla@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:cbc4d6b5-f2c8-45e5-80a8-5705f1aba177@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Jul 26, 2:30 am, "Douglas Clark" <dgdcl...@dgdclynx.plus.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> There is no transcendental. Neither God or the Devil exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that the historical ideas of God and the Devil ultimately came
>>>>> from "voices" and similar experiences. If you take a dualistic view of
>>>>> this sort of thing, everything can be classified as from "God" if
>>>>> true, and from the "Devil" if false.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. The shamans used drugs to hear those voices. But they came from
>>>> within the shaman.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> No they didn´t come from the shaman, they came from the plants. I know
>>> because i lived a few weeks with a mushroomhealer and they told me.
>>>
>> They came from inside the shaman's head after the taking of the drugs
>> like mushrooms etc. Not from the mushrooms. Before monotheism etc
>> religion was shaman-based .
>
> NO, do you think the mushroom healer don´t know their art and they are
> lying to me or what?
> Do you think you know better than the healer and that the healer is stupid
> or what?
> You mofo, go somewhere else and spread your lies there!
>
> Greetings
> Bob the flyer

And if you don´t believe me or the healer, read the literatur about "The
plants of God".

No, no, no.
Shamans didn't have to use drugs. They could accomplish the same
with vagal stimulation. See http://www.holotropic.com
Shamans often practiced vagal stimultion so direct and hard that
they caused scar tissue in their muscarinic nervous systems, which kept
their muscarinic nerves stimulated, keeping the abnormally high extra
percentage of the brain awake, as the mushroom fly aminita drug
muscarine would do. Also, LSD works by blocking the inhibitory neurons
thereby allowing the brain to be much more awake than "normal". You
always get the same Underworld.
You wouldn't have the name of the disease, Shamans' Disease, if
shamans didn't often cause scar tissue in their muscarinic nervous
systems. This name was common in the old antisuperstitious Soviet Union,
but in the superstitious West this very knolwedge has been the most
suppressed secret in the Western World.
And, as a result people with Shaman's Disease have been tagged
schizophrenic and remain untreated for their disease, which is usually
thought to be self inflicted and therefore deserved and not worthy of
medical attention. The "lodge" considers them "profaners of the sacred
mysteries" and tries to inflict maximum torment on them.
Actual schizophrenia has been found to be having too many links
between the neurons of the brain, which also awakens much more than the
"normal" 10% of the brain. This extra growth has been found to be caused
by a gene called DISC1. But, THEY'D have to perform a brain biopsy to
proove any of this. It's all biological rights.
The ancient religions and mystical traditions encouragd this
"spiritual development" among its chosen, and celibacy encouraged what
has been called the "rising of the Kundalini to awakwen the Higher
Chakras. But, this celibacy was forced on the public involuntarily. It
is the fault of the state that so many people give themselves Shaman's
Disease, and therefore it should be fully compensated. The state owes
these so called "witches" a living.

"Miguel Alberto" <gellie618@webtv.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:14766-488C54C5-1440@storefull-3132.bay.webtv.net...
> No, no, no.
> Shamans didn't have to use drugs. They could accomplish the same
> with vagal stimulation. See http://www.holotropic.com
> Shamans often practiced vagal stimultion so direct and hard that
> they caused scar tissue in their muscarinic nervous systems, which kept
> their muscarinic nerves stimulated, keeping the abnormally high extra
> percentage of the brain awake, as the mushroom fly aminita drug
> muscarine would do. Also, LSD works by blocking the inhibitory neurons
> thereby allowing the brain to be much more awake than "normal". You
> always get the same Underworld.
> You wouldn't have the name of the disease, Shamans' Disease, if
> shamans didn't often cause scar tissue in their muscarinic nervous
> systems. This name was common in the old antisuperstitious Soviet Union,
> but in the superstitious West this very knolwedge has been the most
> suppressed secret in the Western World.
> And, as a result people with Shaman's Disease have been tagged
> schizophrenic and remain untreated for their disease, which is usually
> thought to be self inflicted and therefore deserved and not worthy of
> medical attention. The "lodge" considers them "profaners of the sacred
> mysteries" and tries to inflict maximum torment on them.
> Actual schizophrenia has been found to be having too many links
> between the neurons of the brain, which also awakens much more than the
> "normal" 10% of the brain. This extra growth has been found to be caused
> by a gene called DISC1. But, THEY'D have to perform a brain biopsy to
> proove any of this. It's all biological rights.
> The ancient religions and mystical traditions encouragd this
> "spiritual development" among its chosen, and celibacy encouraged what
> has been called the "rising of the Kundalini to awakwen the Higher
> Chakras. But, this celibacy was forced on the public involuntarily. It
> is the fault of the state that so many people give themselves Shaman's
> Disease, and therefore it should be fully compensated. The state owes
> these so called "witches" a living.
>
>

No, No, No, No, i personally know that they use holy plants.
End of discussion.

Of course, the lazy ones have used plants for drugs, drugs which
result in the waking up of more than the normal 10% of the brain.
At least it isn't downright unethical, causing evil karma, like
the sacrifice of other living beings. Ya, that's what the sacrifice of
other living beings was originally for. The root word of sacrifice comes
from the ancient Sumerian word "zook", the Vishuddha Chakra. Sacrifice
wasn't "giving something up".
The assistants who attend clients in Dr. Stanislav Grof's
Holotropic Breathing, http://www.holotropic.com must have taken the full
trip, perinatal matrices one through four, in order to have that job;
othewise, when the client goes into, for example, perinatal matrix
three, which is Hell itself, anyone near the client, like the assistant,
will be drawn down into perinatal matrix three, even though he, or she,
hasn't done anything to himself to get there. And, he or she had better
be prepared to deal with it.
An unprepared assistant, or person who gets too close, could end
up catatonic for life, while his or her consciousness remains in the
Underworld, perhaps even after death, forever.
Priests who use sacrifice cause their victims to go into the
Underworld, and are thereby drawn there themselves by the entropy
production rate of their victims.
It is evil, causes suffering and the resultant evil karma, and is
fortunately illegal in every civilized country. But, it does take place
in Africa, and in the West, in traditions like Ju Ju, Voodoo, Santaria,
Candomble, and Umbanda, etc. Sacrifice of other beings is very
unethical.
It is honorable to do it with one's own body, and some shamans are
proud to do it with their own bodies. You could call it "self
sacrifice", the real thing. It is a biological right.