The people who seem to get over schizophrenia???

My Sister in Her late teens had a Schizophrenic breakdown and I ended
up admitting Her to the State Hospital. She was there for over a year
and since then has not had any major problems ( 25 years later) with
hearing voices, thinking there is a conspiracy against Her, and just
freaking out in general. But...., something doesn't seem quite
right. There is a long history of Mental Health issues in my family
and I am wondering if people who seem to get over the worst of this
disease are still affected by it? Those who are lucky and do not get
stuck with a life time of Schizophrenia and return to life are they
completely free of it? What type of symptoms would they exhibit? if
the disease is still doing its thing? Should she still be on some
meds even though She says nothing is wrong with Her? I am not saying
something is wrong but it seems something is not right with Her. I
see some of the same things in my Mom who has lived a lifetime with no
treatment. Does anyone have any insight into people like my Sister
and Mom? And what to do about it.
Thanks very much
Uriah

One third of those who are diagnosed as schizophrenic recover and have no
further trouble. However, I assume that these are usually recoveries that
take less than a year. Maybe I shouldn't assume....



"Uriah" <uriahsky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177894443.684328.201530@y5g2000hsa.googlegro ups.com...
> My Sister in Her late teens had a Schizophrenic breakdown and I ended
> up admitting Her to the State Hospital. She was there for over a year
> and since then has not had any major problems ( 25 years later) with
> hearing voices, thinking there is a conspiracy against Her, and just
> freaking out in general. But...., something doesn't seem quite
> right. There is a long history of Mental Health issues in my family
> and I am wondering if people who seem to get over the worst of this
> disease are still affected by it? Those who are lucky and do not get
> stuck with a life time of Schizophrenia and return to life are they
> completely free of it? What type of symptoms would they exhibit? if
> the disease is still doing its thing? Should she still be on some
> meds even though She says nothing is wrong with Her? I am not saying
> something is wrong but it seems something is not right with Her. I
> see some of the same things in my Mom who has lived a lifetime with no
> treatment. Does anyone have any insight into people like my Sister
> and Mom? And what to do about it.
> Thanks very much
> Uriah
>

Uriah wrote:
> My Sister in Her late teens had a Schizophrenic breakdown and I ended
> up admitting Her to the State Hospital. She was there for over a year
> and since then has not had any major problems ( 25 years later) with
> hearing voices, thinking there is a conspiracy against Her, and just
> freaking out in general. But...., something doesn't seem quite
> right. There is a long history of Mental Health issues in my family
> and I am wondering if people who seem to get over the worst of this
> disease are still affected by it? Those who are lucky and do not get
> stuck with a life time of Schizophrenia and return to life are they
> completely free of it? What type of symptoms would they exhibit? if
> the disease is still doing its thing? Should she still be on some
> meds even though She says nothing is wrong with Her? I am not saying
> something is wrong but it seems something is not right with Her. I
> see some of the same things in my Mom who has lived a lifetime with no
> treatment. Does anyone have any insight into people like my Sister
> and Mom? And what to do about it.
> Thanks very much
> Uriah

My late ex was dxed with sz in his twenties and hospitalized for a
while, I'm not sure exactly how long because this was a year or so
before I knew him. He never had another episode. He had problems which
I suspect would be considered schizotypical or something like that, but
he had a pretty successful life. Unfortunately our son didn't get off
so easily, his sz has stayed with him.

I'm no pdoc but it seems to me that someone who seems to have gotten
over it has no reason to be on meds. Thinking something isn't right
with someone isn't a reason for them to be put on meds. They aren't for
making someone conform to someone else's idea of what's "right," they
are for people who suffer from psychosis.

If you really think your sister has a serious problem (which it does not
sound like from what you've said) try to get her to see a pdoc.
Otherwise leave her alone. That's what I think anyway.

Lily


--
http://ourbeautifulminds.com

I think it's part of "letting go". Let's get personal here.
Either you or someone you are quite afraid of did something to her and you
won't let it go.
That something not right, is your justification for keeping her "chained".

-let it go.

--
"Always remember that you are absolutely unique, just like everyone else."
William K. Mahler, http://www.mahlers.com
Singer - Songwriter - Photographer - Webmaster
Yahoo Instant Messenger ID: mahlerscom
reply: mahlers dot com at mahlers dot com

"Uriah" <uriahsky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177894443.684328.201530@y5g2000hsa.googlegro ups.com...
> My Sister in Her late teens had a Schizophrenic breakdown and I ended
> up admitting Her to the State Hospital. She was there for over a year
> and since then has not had any major problems ( 25 years later) with
> hearing voices, thinking there is a conspiracy against Her, and just
> freaking out in general. But...., something doesn't seem quite
> right. There is a long history of Mental Health issues in my family
> and I am wondering if people who seem to get over the worst of this
> disease are still affected by it? Those who are lucky and do not get
> stuck with a life time of Schizophrenia and return to life are they
> completely free of it? What type of symptoms would they exhibit? if
> the disease is still doing its thing? Should she still be on some
> meds even though She says nothing is wrong with Her? I am not saying
> something is wrong but it seems something is not right with Her. I
> see some of the same things in my Mom who has lived a lifetime with no
> treatment. Does anyone have any insight into people like my Sister
> and Mom? And what to do about it.
> Thanks very much
> Uriah
>

On Apr 29, 5:54 pm, Uriah <uriah...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> My Sister in Her late teens had a Schizophrenic breakdown and I ended
> up admitting Her to the State Hospital. She was there for over a year
> and since then has not had any major problems ( 25 years later) with
> hearing voices, thinking there is a conspiracy against Her, and just
> freaking out in general. But...., something doesn't seem quite
> right. There is a long history of Mental Health issues in my family
> and I am wondering if people who seem to get over the worst of this
> disease are still affected by it? Those who are lucky and do not get
> stuck with a life time of Schizophrenia and return to life are they
> completely free of it? What type of symptoms would they exhibit? if
> the disease is still doing its thing? Should she still be on some
> meds even though She says nothing is wrong with Her? I am not saying
> something is wrong but it seems something is not right with Her. I
> see some of the same things in my Mom who has lived a lifetime with no
> treatment. Does anyone have any insight into people like my Sister
> and Mom? And what to do about it.
> Thanks very much
> Uriah

You are correct. Some schizophrenics do not have any profoundly
disturbing symptoms but they are not free of the schizophrenia.
Schizophrenia is simply a state of separation of consciousness that is
more separate than the ordinary state. The schizophrenic is simply
stuck in this closed loop state and cannot find the way out. There is
a way out. It is described below. Buy the books Uriah.

Roky



THE CURE FOR SCHIZOPHRENIA AND THE ENJOYMENT OF CONSCIOUSNESS

I don not recommend people to stop taking their P-meds. This Teaching
or Cure will work even if you are taking them.

This is the cure for schizophrenia. It is not of my origin. And it
should not be judged on how poorly I explain it. Please read it all.
This is a continuation of my earlier post.

THE INTRODUCTION

The human being as I see it is made of three parts, the physical, the
psychological, and the spiritual.
The psychological part consists of the past memories and an imagined
future. The physical part we know.
The spiritual part consists of ones present feelings and intuitions in
the present moment. These three parts are in some way separate yet
related to one another.

If you think I am talking about psychology or pyscho-babel you are
wrong. This teaching is not about belief. Belief is the opposite of
it.

When we are born we all start out in a state that is much more one of
oneness or inherence in all of experience. As our brains mature we
begin to lose that feeling. Most people end up in the state of
consciousness that is called normal or ordinary by the time they are
in their teens or earlier.

I describe consciousness as levels, starting with the lowest,
psychosis , the next up is schizophrenia, the next up is normal, then
come the spiritual levels. The first being the beginning level or
conversion, it has as many names as there are spiritual traditions.
Beyond that level is the mystical and beyond that is Enlightenment or
Oneness.

For some unknown reason some people end up in the spiritual state and
some end up in the schizophrenic state. Most end up in the normal
state. Maybe it is bio-chemical and a result of genetics. There may be
environmental factors such as poor nutrition during the prenatal
stage. I don't believe that it has anything to do with parenting
skills.

This state of schizophrenia can be described as a feeling of being
apart or separated from the world. There is a feeling of anxiety or
fear. It is a state of tension. There may be other symptoms. In more
extreme cases people become separated from their thoughts. Those who
are in that state only know it as their normal state. But
others ,including doctors , know it is not normal. When you are freed
from that state it becomes very clear where you had been.

It is very important to understand that the Normal state of
consciousness is not normal at all, only common. Normal consciousness
is also a state of separation from the world. Some people get tired of
it and seek to enter into a state that is more one with everything or
Reality. We call these people spiritual seekers. Some take
psychedelics, some practice austere disciplines, others practice
meditation in various forms.

THE CURE IS THE TEACHING FOUND IN THE BOOKS ,THE KNEE OF LISTENING AND
THE METHOD OF THE SIDDHAS. Below is my summary explanation of them.
You must read the actual books to truly understand what I am trying to
explain.

IF NORMAL PEOPLE CAN CHANGE THEIR CONSCIOUSNESS THEN SO CAN
SCHIZOPHRENICS.

What is consciousness? Human consciousness is a lesser intensity of
Pure Consciousness. As Alan Watts put it, "The ocean waves, the
universe peoples." In some people that consciousness has been
constricted to much and they are schizophrenic. They have become too
separated from consciousness itself.

CONSCIOUSNESS EXISTS IN THE PRESENT MOMENT

All modifications or contractions of consciousness occur in the
present moment. Your consciousness is the result of your activity in
the present moment. It is in the present moment that you create the
sense of separation to whatever degree it exists in you. It did not
happen in the past and since it is happening now it can be changed.

WHY DOES THIS SENSE OF SEPARATION EXIST?

It is written in the Upanishads that as soon as an other is noticed
there is fear. In that moment of noticing an other the Ego is born out
of fear. The ego is not love. It is at its core fear. As soon as there
is separation there is fear. "Fear is when love stops short of
infinity."-Adi Da Samraj

WHAT IS PERCEPTION?

What you consider to be your sense of perception is in fact that
avoidance of relationship (to everything). You are always avoiding
being already in relationship to consciousness.

WHY DOES THIS SENSE OF SEPARATION CONTINUE?

It continues because in every single moment of the day you meditate on
it. Everything you do and everything you think is meditation on this
separation.
It is best described in the Myth of Narcissus from Greek mythology.
Narcissus fell in love with his own image in the pond and spent his
whole life meditating on himself. That is what everyone is doing.

HOW DOES THIS SEPARATION STOP AND ONES CONSCIOUSNESS EXPAND AND THUS
CURE SCHIZOPHRENIA?

The natural state of consciousness is oneness, the unnatural state is
separation. Thus consciousness naturally always wants to return to its
prior nature of oneness. If you simply observe yourself in every
moment you will see that you are always meditating on yourself, you
will see that you are separating your self in every moment. This
applies to all people including the normal and even spiritual people.

REAL ENQUIRY

All you must do in every moment of the day is to enquire of yourself,
"Avoiding being already entirely in relationship?" There is no "I" in
this question. In its short form simple enquire of yourself, "Avoiding
relationship?" This mantra is actually the Form of Consciousness
Itself reinforcing its Own Nature. This action is called
Understanding. It is simply self observation.

THE GREATEST BOOKS ABOUT THE NATURE OF REALITY OR CONSCIOUSNESS EVER
WRITTEN

They are THE KNEE OF LISTENING and THE METHOD OF THE SIDDHAS by Adi Da
Samraj. They are the source of all I have learned. I have read many
spiritual books but there are none which so clearly explain
consciousness as ones present activity. This Teaching is about freeing
yourself from your limitations of self meditation and the separation
it causes. It is for everyone. It is not about schizophrenia which is
just a word describing a state of separation.
Excerpts from those books can be found at: Thebeezone.com


MY MOMENT OF FREEDOM

I read those two books in 1975 and experienced the most extraordinary
change in my consciousness. One moment I was thinking about what I had
read and reread and re -reread .
The next moment I was FREE. My mind had been released from that bond
of contraction. I fell into that state of Grace or Conversion or
Little Samadhi or Rebirth or whatever name you give it. It lasted for
two hours. Then I contracted back into that state of schizophrenia. I
read some more. The next day I fell back into that state of Grace or
Conversion again but this time it lasted 4 hours. I read some more.
The next time it lasted longer. Eventually it became my permanent
state of being.

OTHERS HAVE BEEN FREED
I have known a few others who have been freed from schizophrenia also
by this Teaching. What works for one should work for all who can
understand it.
This Teaching is not a cure all for all diseases or even all mental
illness. There is no other Teaching like it.

SEE FOR YOURSELF
If you wish to try this for yourself you MUST get the books and read
them many times. You cannot grasp this teaching from only from my
posts. Amazon.com has used ones at cheap prices at least for the Knee
of Listening. I do not get any money from anyone for doing this. I am
not a member of the Sect of Adi Da Samraj though I was a student of it
many years ago.

THE FORCE
The is a literal force generated by this Teaching. The force or energy
will intensify your feelings. This force will keep most people away
from it. In the presence of the truth one either surrenders,flees or
attacks it.

WHAT I KNOW
This is what I know. I have told you everything. Some will say it is
too simple. Others will say it is too complicated. Most will ignore
it.

Now it is up to you.

Roky

THE MEDITATION OF UNDERSTANDING from The KNee of Listening

Real meditation doesn't do anything for you. It has no purpose. When a
person begins some form of seeking, he immediately turns to an
effective, remedial technique that will get him quickly to his goal.
Thus, when a man adapts to various kinds of religious and spiritual
effort, he begins almost immediately to meditate in some way. The
Christian and the devotee begin to pray and adapt to religious forms.
The spiritual seeker begins to concentrate and internalize the mind.
Others use drugs, study, critical thought, relaxation and poetry,
pleasure, etc.
But real life, the way of understanding, is not another form of
seeking. For the man of understanding, meditation is not adopted for
the sake of something else. He does not pursue understanding or
reality or any kind of experience through meditation. Real meditation
is already a radical activity. It is understanding.
In the logic of Narcissus, the separative mentality, all things are
seeking. But the man of understanding perceives the logic of reality
and lives as it. Therefore, he is not concerned about meditation His
business is understanding, not ascent,vision, transformation,
liberation. or any other goal. The way of understanding belongs to
those who recognize the fruitlessness of seeking.
I do not recommend that you meditate. There is only understanding.
Therefore, understand. And when understanding has become observation,
reflection, insight and radical cognition, then the state of
consciousness itself is meditation. When understanding has become a
radical process, and the avoidance of relationship has become an
inclusive and sufficient recognition, when you have understood that
seeking is all a function of dilemma and when you no longer are
voluntarily motivated by the physical, mental or spiritual problem,
then you are already meditating.
Meditation is simply understanding as a radical process in
consciousness. It is what understanding is when it has become
necessary and profound. There is no right motive for adopting it.
There is only the discovery that you are already doing it.
Thus, when understanding has become founded in you by observation of
your life, and you have truly realized the radical process of
avoidance on every level of your being. then you have ceased to
approach life without intelligence, simply reacting, becoming
motivated, and seeking various ends. Instead, you have begun to
approach all experience with a simplicity in consciousness, a presence
you bring to all things, which is understanding.
When you have begun to approach life with understanding, knowing the
radical truth of understanding, then you have begun to meditate. Then
understanding, the logic of reality, can be extended as itself to
conscious or real meditation.
Real meditation is not purposive. It has no effect that it seeks to
produce. It has no dilemma to solve. It has already become
understanding. And understanding is conscious knowing. Understanding
is in fact the knowledge that is consciousness, non-separation,
reality. Therefore, it is the enjoyment of consciousness. To
understand is already to meditate, to contemplate consciousness
itself. And it does this not by an act of concentration on
consciousness, or any form or center of consciousness, but by
understanding experience, the action of consciousness.
Where there is understanding in life, what is actually being known is
consciousness, unqualified reality. Thus the understanding of
experience by observation leads to the recognition of the avoidance of
relationship as a radical activity. And even where this recognition
arises it will also cease to be the fundamental object or activity of
conscious life. It will simply give way to the fundamental perception
prior to avoidance, which is reality, Unqualified relationship,
consciousness.
Thus understanding first becomes actual in the mind, and then it is
extended as enquiry. Enquiry is the approach of understanding to
experience. And enquiry is meditation. It is in the form: 'Avoiding
relationship?'
As enquiry continues as the radical activity of life, even enquiry
becomes occasional . Even in the beginning it is not repetitive, like
a mantra. That which is identified and enjoyed in consciousness
through enquiry does not need constant enquiry to reduce the
tendencies of the mind and life to prior understanding. That reality
which is the source and realization of enquiry eventually becomes the
ready object of the mind and life, and one tends to return to it
easily and naturally.
Thus, when understanding becomes radical knowledge, there is no
constant enquiry, no special meditation. Knowledge becomes
consciousness itself, which is unqualified, which is "no-seeking" in
the heart and "no-dilemma" in the mind.

There are over a thousand different brain and nervous system
conditions that are generalized under the tag "schizophrenia". For
example, there is a condition which was called Shamans' Disease in the
old anti-superstitous Soviet Union. It is analogous to reflux
sympathetic dystrophy, RSD, but it is a condition of the parasympathetic
nervous system. Scar tissue in the parasympathetic nervous system
excites similar muscarinic nerves all the way up to the brain,
overriding inhibitory neurons that LSD blocks, therefore having the same
effects as LSD. Due to the fact that superstitious priestcrafts and
secret societies have secretly considered this sacred, or a profanation
by those not entitled to this knolwedge, even the knowledge of this
disease is suppressed in superstitious countries. Those caught with this
disease have been tagged schizophrenic. I have never heard of anyone
with Shamans' Disease ever "legally" recovering, though, the extra
dimensions of experience can be sufficiently mastered and a successful
identity change could be a cure.

My problem (with the establishment) started with a so called
"nervous breakdown". It seems that the nervous system is forced to
overheat and the neuron walls start melting, increased neuron wall
permeability and the hallucinatory withdrawal from that "narcotic" like
neuron wall permeability, similar to the DT's. During that time I could
smell something burning all the time. It was me. But, there was a relief
allowed by it. One just has to get used to that state, that realm called
the Underworld, and one can take advantage of the situation. With first
the coincidence and simultaneity and then thoughts maniifesting, if one
can master it one can take advantage of it and get rich.
It is understandable why the "establishement" spirits us away and
tries to erase our memories about this. The system tries to burry us and
smother us in dopamine blockers. Why? That's where the accepted members
of the "esablishement" get their power from. Having exprienced this, you
can see it in a book like "The Morals and Dogma of the Scotch Rite" by
Albert Pike. These morons think they have a monoply on Hell.

Dopamine never causes hallucinations! Dopamine is the
neurotransmitter of the reward system of the brain. Dopamine blockers
devastate people into helplessness and were originally used to render
dangerous patients harmless. From this grew the huge dopamine blocker
industry which still attempts to flourish by bribing psychiatrists to
force dopamine blockers on anyone they can.
Hallucinations are caused by cholinergic and glutamatergic
neurons. Blocking acetylcholine causes paralysis; but, blocking
glutamate is pleasant and is being researched by medical science.

Uriah <uriahsky@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1177894443.684328.201530
@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:

> Those who are lucky and do not get
> stuck with a life time of Schizophrenia and return to life are they
> completely free of it?

Those who are lucky and do not get
stuck with a life time of Schizophrenia and return to life are they
completely free of it?

well, in my case.. i seem to have recovered to a satisfactory leve, i no
longer need medication and i dont get voices and hallucinations much at all
anymore. I think the term for what i get is called "residual symptoms". i
have good days and bad days, i will occaisonally think someone is poisoning
me or that cars are following me, but whereas before it was very real and
scared the hell out of me, now i have some insight into the situation and
can say to myself "oh its just my illness". Id be lying if i said im fully
recovered but if i want to i can function in society at some level.
sometimes i get really depressed about the fact i cant shake all the
symptoms. but what can i do? my family also has a big history of mental
illness, i have my dad who is undiagnosed but for sure he is crazy, and at
least 2 uncles who are bonkas too, all from the same side of the family. my
mothers side is more neurotic than psychotic.

On 2 May 2007 10:24:40 +1100, heh <heh@heh.com> wrote:

>Uriah <uriahsky@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1177894443.684328.201530
>@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Those who are lucky and do not get
>> stuck with a life time of Schizophrenia and return to life are they
>> completely free of it?
>
>Those who are lucky and do not get
>stuck with a life time of Schizophrenia and return to life are they
>completely free of it?
>
>well, in my case.. i seem to have recovered to a satisfactory leve, i no
>longer need medication and i dont get voices and hallucinations much at all
>anymore. I think the term for what i get is called "residual symptoms". i
>have good days and bad days, i will occaisonally think someone is poisoning
>me or that cars are following me, but whereas before it was very real and
>scared the hell out of me, now i have some insight into the situation and
>can say to myself "oh its just my illness". Id be lying if i said im fully
>recovered but if i want to i can function in society at some level.
>sometimes i get really depressed about the fact i cant shake all the
>symptoms. but what can i do? my family also has a big history of mental
>illness, i have my dad who is undiagnosed but for sure he is crazy, and at
>least 2 uncles who are bonkas too, all from the same side of the family. my
>mothers side is more neurotic than psychotic.

I am having problems but they are underneath the ice I am skating on.
I am trying to keep skating.

On May 1, 9:22 pm, Phin <some...@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
>
> I am having problems but they are underneath the ice I am skating on.
> I am trying to keep skating.

Read any good books lately?

Roky

On 2 May 2007 18:15:16 -0700, roky <rokybird@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 1, 9:22 pm, Phin <some...@somewhere.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am having problems but they are underneath the ice I am skating on.
>> I am trying to keep skating.
>
>Read any good books lately?
>
>Roky

I did check it out but cannot concentrate enough to read. I will look
for it if it is on audio.

Phin $B$N%a%C%;!<%8(B:
> On 2 May 2007 18:15:16 -0700, roky <rokybird@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On May 1, 9:22 pm, Phin <some...@somewhere.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I am having problems but they are underneath the ice I am skating on.
> >> I am trying to keep skating.
> >
> >Read any good books lately?
> >
> >Roky
>
> I did check it out but cannot concentrate enough to read. I will look
> for it if it is on audio.









When free from Schizophrenic,, it's able to tell, it's able to
tell that one are separated from Schizophrenia paranoia
separated from the state and feel what others are experienceing
whichever the state, with or without any answers.

When I can't read, it is good not to force reading stop reading
for a while and get back at. Sometime schizophrenic part need
to be focus, maybe not, it's whos mind reading, not only the I or
i reading tracing perhaps for everyone, maybe not.

a penny to my peggy bank, just kidding,

On May 3, 1:19 am, Phin <some...@somewhere.net> wrote:
> On 2 May 2007 18:15:16 -0700, roky <rokyb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On May 1, 9:22 pm, Phin <some...@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
> >> I am having problems but they are underneath the ice I am skating on.
> >> I am trying to keep skating.
>
> >Read any good books lately?
>
> >Roky
>
> I did check it out but cannot concentrate enough to read. I will look
> for it if it is on audio.


Audio talks (not the complete book)
http://www.dawnhorsepress.com/produc...n.asp?PID=2235

When the individual begins to see again the dilemma that motivates
his or her strategic method, that seeing is understanding. As long as
the individual is simply seeking, and has all kinds of motivation,
fascination with the search, this is not understanding-this is dilemma
itself. But where this dilemma is understood, there is the re-
cognition of a structure in the living consciousness, a separation.
And when that separation is observed more and more directly, one
begins to see that what one is suffering is not something happening to
oneself but it is one's own action. It is as if you are pinching
yourself, without being aware of it.

-Avatar Adi Da Samraj

On the first night of His Teaching-Work (April 25, 1972), Avatar Adi
Da Gave this presentation of His "radical" argument relative to the
activity of separation that is the root of all suffering and dilemma.
When that activity is "understood", then the Real Divine Condition can
be felt and Enjoyed.

(Note: This Talk was recorded in North Hollywood adjacent to a busy
highway, and the sound of traffic in the background makes it difficult
to hear Avatar Adi Da Samraj at times.)

Roky

dont spam, u maggot.