Question please

There is sz in my immediate family, but there is one child who's now 30 who
had not shown symptoms until recently. The difference also was, she was a
speed user for a couple of periods of time. She used to inject and the last
time was twice a day for 4 weeks. That was 18 mths ago. Prior to that time
she was using speed at a rate unknown.

My question is about her chronic paranoia she gets from time to time. It
doesnt *seem* to be the same paranoia as my other 2 family members gets, and
it doesnt respond as well to drug-therapy.

The differences in her paranoia are: about things going around her, not
stuff that happened in the past which is characteristic of my other child.

Is this difference significant in that her paranoia is likely to be drug
related? I am at a loss on what is going on here.

thanks,...Jim

Jim,

Men usually become mentally ill around 18 years of age. Women don't become
mentally ill until around age 28. So this is how Schizophrenia and many
other mental illnesses are. As far as getting help for someone check your
local social services and find out what is legal where your at.

Hope this helps.

girl

"Jim" <at@peace.com> wrote in message
news:463d1db8$0$90309$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...
> There is sz in my immediate family, but there is one child who's now 30
> who
> had not shown symptoms until recently. The difference also was, she was a
> speed user for a couple of periods of time. She used to inject and the
> last
> time was twice a day for 4 weeks. That was 18 mths ago. Prior to that time
> she was using speed at a rate unknown.
>
> My question is about her chronic paranoia she gets from time to time. It
> doesnt *seem* to be the same paranoia as my other 2 family members gets,
> and
> it doesnt respond as well to drug-therapy.
>
> The differences in her paranoia are: about things going around her, not
> stuff that happened in the past which is characteristic of my other child.
>
> Is this difference significant in that her paranoia is likely to be drug
> related? I am at a loss on what is going on here.
>
> thanks,...Jim
>
>

Thanks for your reply, Girl. Because of privacy-laws, we are restricted on
what we are told,..not even the diagnosis has been revealed to us. I just
need to know if she is considered paranoid sz, or a paranoid personality
disorder. With this knowledge, I would have a better idea on how to approach
her with a view to counselling. Her delusions are based on misinterpreted
events in the present time, while her sz mother and sister are very
long-term and intricate.

Jason


"girl30" <girl30us2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zKe%h.986$ri3.809@newsfe02.lga...
> Jim,
>
> Men usually become mentally ill around 18 years of age. Women don't become
> mentally ill until around age 28. So this is how Schizophrenia and many
> other mental illnesses are. As far as getting help for someone check your
> local social services and find out what is legal where your at.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> girl
>
> "Jim" <at@peace.com> wrote in message
> news:463d1db8$0$90309$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...
> > There is sz in my immediate family, but there is one child who's now 30
> > who
> > had not shown symptoms until recently. The difference also was, she was
a
> > speed user for a couple of periods of time. She used to inject and the
> > last
> > time was twice a day for 4 weeks. That was 18 mths ago. Prior to that
time
> > she was using speed at a rate unknown.
> >
> > My question is about her chronic paranoia she gets from time to time. It
> > doesnt *seem* to be the same paranoia as my other 2 family members gets,
> > and
> > it doesnt respond as well to drug-therapy.
> >
> > The differences in her paranoia are: about things going around her, not
> > stuff that happened in the past which is characteristic of my other
child.
> >
> > Is this difference significant in that her paranoia is likely to be drug
> > related? I am at a loss on what is going on here.
> >
> > thanks,...Jim
> >
> >
>
>

"Speed" can produce effects that look like schizophrenia. 30 is a bit late
for the typical onset of schizophrenia. My guess is that you are dealing
with the effects of illegal drug use, not schizophrenia.


"Jim" <at@peace.com> wrote in message
news:463d1db8$0$90309$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...
> There is sz in my immediate family, but there is one child who's now 30
> who
> had not shown symptoms until recently. The difference also was, she was a
> speed user for a couple of periods of time. She used to inject and the
> last
> time was twice a day for 4 weeks. That was 18 mths ago. Prior to that time
> she was using speed at a rate unknown.
>
> My question is about her chronic paranoia she gets from time to time. It
> doesnt *seem* to be the same paranoia as my other 2 family members gets,
> and
> it doesnt respond as well to drug-therapy.
>
> The differences in her paranoia are: about things going around her, not
> stuff that happened in the past which is characteristic of my other child.
>
> Is this difference significant in that her paranoia is likely to be drug
> related? I am at a loss on what is going on here.
>
> thanks,...Jim
>
>

"Quiet Neighbor" <private@spamless.net> wrote in message
news:soo%h.673$LR5.218@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net. ..
> "Speed" can produce effects that look like schizophrenia. 30 is a bit
late
> for the typical onset of schizophrenia. My guess is that you are dealing
> with the effects of illegal drug use, not schizophrenia.

Thanks for your reply, QN. We look after her and our g/daughter, so I have
lots of contact and am frustrated at the lack of success the local health
team are having with her, so I try to do as much counselling as I can.

Jason



> "Jim" <at@peace.com> wrote in message
> news:463d1db8$0$90309$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...
> > There is sz in my immediate family, but there is one child who's now 30
> > who
> > had not shown symptoms until recently. The difference also was, she was
a
> > speed user for a couple of periods of time. She used to inject and the
> > last
> > time was twice a day for 4 weeks. That was 18 mths ago. Prior to that
time
> > she was using speed at a rate unknown.
> >
> > My question is about her chronic paranoia she gets from time to time. It
> > doesnt *seem* to be the same paranoia as my other 2 family members gets,
> > and
> > it doesnt respond as well to drug-therapy.
> >
> > The differences in her paranoia are: about things going around her, not
> > stuff that happened in the past which is characteristic of my other
child.
> >
> > Is this difference significant in that her paranoia is likely to be drug
> > related? I am at a loss on what is going on here.
> >
> > thanks,...Jim
> >
> >
>
>

I didn't become sz until I was 35.

Can you ask your daughter what her diagnosis is?

penguin

"Penguin A" <kola5z@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:14462-463E4216-312@storefull-3177.bay.webtv.net...
>
> I didn't become sz until I was 35.
>
> Can you ask your daughter what her diagnosis is?

Well, over the last 18 mths, OCD,Bipolar and now sz. Her sister has
paranoia which is always the same ie based on something which happened in
the past, never right now. Her mother is totally different again, her's are
elaborate communication powers and influences on other people's life events.
Now my daughter I'm referring to in these posts, has paranoid delusions
about things which are happening now, in the present, and dont have any
fantasy or bizarre features. They could be true, except there are too many
of them,..everything from someone meddling with her tablets to the front
door lock being picked and her clothing being taken or when she visits a
shop, everyone stops talking and looks at her. There are countless more
examples, but they are all in the present time, and aren't fantastic.

The mental-health team are aware of her speed and heroin use, which she has
now ceased. They still urine tested her, and she was clean. She does have a
short temper, sometimes this can go on to violence.

tks for your comments PA.

On 6 mei, 02:16, "Jim" <a...@peace.com> wrote:
> There is sz in my immediate family, but there is one child who's now 30 who
> had not shown symptoms until recently. The difference also was, she was a
> speed user for a couple of periods of time. She used to inject and the last
> time was twice a day for 4 weeks. That was 18 mths ago. Prior to that time
> she was using speed at a rate unknown.
>
> My question is about her chronic paranoia she gets from time to time. It
> doesnt *seem* to be the same paranoia as my other 2 family members gets, and
> it doesnt respond as well to drug-therapy.
>
> The differences in her paranoia are: about things going around her, not
> stuff that happened in the past which is characteristic of my other child.
>
> Is this difference significant in that her paranoia is likely to be drug
> related? I am at a loss on what is going on here.
>
> thanks,...Jim

Hello Jim,

I got schizophrenia at the age of 31 without drugsabuse.
However later in live (about 8 years later without a psychosis)
I started to use cannabis for a few years and everything went
ok until I suddenly stopped it and right into a psychosis I
went and had to take stronger meds.

Drugs can be enough to start an onset of schizophrenia and
after that you are schizophrenic

You can look up the DSM-IV manual for diagnosis.

Here something about schizophrenia from the DSM-IV

Go to... Schizophrenia


Featured Book
Surviving Schizophrenia: A Manual for Families, Consumers, and
Providers (4th Edition)

Six years ago, Dr. Torrey's third edition of Surviving Schizophrenia
was the first book I read on the subject. Our family was in crisis
after my oldest son had his first psychotic break. Dr. Torrey's
practical, sound, humane advice was godsent information. I had read
Bateson and Satir years before in grad school. Based on their
writings, I felt responsible and guilty that my son developed
schizophrenia. Dr. Torrey's book allowed me to move beyond misplaced
guilt with it's clarity of thought on an illness beset by flakey books
and ideas. His practical advice guided us in selecting a
multidisciplinary team to work with our son who is doing well even
though he requires occasional hospitalization. Dr. Torrey's endnotes
guided us into a wide field of research that broadened our
understanding.




Overview
The most common psychotic disorder, affecting 1% of the world
population, and having a strong familial tendency. Between one third
and one half of homeless Americans have schizophrenia.

Learning Problem
Hypoactivity
Psychosis
Euphoric Mood
Depressed Mood
Somatic or Sexual Dysfunction
Hyperactivity
Guilt or Obsession
Sexually Deviant Behavior
Odd/Eccentric or Suspicious Personality
Anxious or Fearful or Dependent Personality
Dramatic or Erratic or Antisocial Personality


Diagnostic Criteria
Characteristic symptoms: Two (or more) of the following, each present
for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if
successfully treated):


delusions
hallucinations
disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
negative symptoms (i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition)
Note: Only one Criterion A symptom is required if delusions are
bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running
commentary on the person's behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices
conversing with each other.

Social/occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time
since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of
functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care are
markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset (or when the
onset is in childhood or adolescence, failure to achieve expected
level of interpersonal, academic, or occupational achievement).


Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6
months. This 6-month period must include at least 1 month of symptoms
(or less if successfully treated) that meet Criterion A (i.e., active-
phase symptoms) and may include periods of prodromal or residual
symptoms. During these prodromal or residual periods, the signs of the
disturbance may be manifested by only negative symptoms or two or more
symptoms listed in Criterion A present in an attenuated form (e.g.,
odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).


Schizoaffective and Mood Disorder exclusion: Schizoaffective Disorder
and Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features have been ruled out because
either (1) no Major Depressive Episode, Manic Episode, or Mixed
Episode have occurred concurrently with the active-phase symptoms; or
(2) if mood episodes have occurred during active-phase symptoms, their
total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the active
and residual periods.


Substance/general medical condition exclusion: The disturbance is not
due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug
of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.


Relationship to a Pervasive Developmental Disorder: If there is a
history of Autistic Disorder or another Pervasive Developmental
Disorder, the additional diagnosis of Schizophrenia is made only if
prominent delusions or hallucinations are also present for at least a
month (or less if successfully treated).


Diagnostic Criteria of Schizophrenia Subtypes


Paranoid Type
A type of Schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met:

Preoccupation with one or more delusions or frequent auditory
hallucinations.
None of the following is prominent: disorganized speech, disorganized
or catatonic behavior, or flat or inappropriate affect.
Catatonic Type
A type of Schizophrenia in which the clinical picture is dominated by
at least two of the following:

motoric immobility as evidenced by catalepsy (including waxy
flexibility) or stupor
excessive motor activity (that is apparently purposeless and not
influenced by external stimuli)
extreme negativism (an apparently motiveless resistance to all
instructions or maintenance of a rigid posture against attempts to be
moved) or mutism
peculiarities of voluntary movement as evidenced by posturing
(voluntary assumption of inappropriate or bizarre postures)
stereotyped movements, prominent mannerisms, or prominent grimacing
echolalia or echopraxia
Disorganized Type
A type of Schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met:

All of the following are prominent:
disorganized speech
disorganized behavior
flat or inappropriate affect
The criteria are not met for Catatonic Type.
Undifferentiated Type
A type of Schizophrenia in which symptoms that meet Criterion A are
present, but the criteria are not met for the Paranoid, Disorganized,
or Catatonic Type.

Residual Type
A type of Schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met:

Absence of prominent delusions, hallucinations, disorganized speech,
and grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior.
There is continuing evidence of the disturbance, as indicated by the
presence of negative symptoms or two or more symptoms listed in
Criterion A for Schizophrenia, present in an attenuated form (e.g.,
odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).

Greetings,

Berty

"Adamski_Rasputin" <adamskirasputin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178534955.660879.184460@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
> On 6 mei, 02:16, "Jim" <a...@peace.com> wrote:
> > There is sz in my immediate family, but there is one child who's now 30
who
> > had not shown symptoms until recently. The difference also was, she was
a
> > speed user for a couple of periods of time. She used to inject and the
last
> > time was twice a day for 4 weeks. That was 18 mths ago. Prior to that
time
> > she was using speed at a rate unknown.
> >
> > My question is about her chronic paranoia she gets from time to time. It
> > doesnt *seem* to be the same paranoia as my other 2 family members gets,
and
> > it doesnt respond as well to drug-therapy.
> >
> > The differences in her paranoia are: about things going around her, not
> > stuff that happened in the past which is characteristic of my other
child.
> >
> > Is this difference significant in that her paranoia is likely to be drug
> > related? I am at a loss on what is going on here.
> >
> > thanks,...Jim
>
> Hello Jim,
>
> I got schizophrenia at the age of 31 without drugsabuse.
> However later in live (about 8 years later without a psychosis)
> I started to use cannabis for a few years and everything went
> ok until I suddenly stopped it and right into a psychosis I
> went and had to take stronger meds.
>
> Drugs can be enough to start an onset of schizophrenia and
> after that you are schizophrenic
>
> You can look up the DSM-IV manual for diagnosis.
>
> Here something about schizophrenia from the DSM-IV
>
> Go to... Schizophrenia
>
>
> Featured Book
> Surviving Schizophrenia: A Manual for Families, Consumers, and
> Providers (4th Edition)
>
> Six years ago, Dr. Torrey's third edition of Surviving Schizophrenia
> was the first book I read on the subject. Our family was in crisis
> after my oldest son had his first psychotic break. Dr. Torrey's
> practical, sound, humane advice was godsent information. I had read
> Bateson and Satir years before in grad school. Based on their
> writings, I felt responsible and guilty that my son developed
> schizophrenia. Dr. Torrey's book allowed me to move beyond misplaced
> guilt with it's clarity of thought on an illness beset by flakey books
> and ideas. His practical advice guided us in selecting a
> multidisciplinary team to work with our son who is doing well even
> though he requires occasional hospitalization. Dr. Torrey's endnotes
> guided us into a wide field of research that broadened our
> understanding.
>
>
>
>
> Overview
> The most common psychotic disorder, affecting 1% of the world
> population, and having a strong familial tendency. Between one third
> and one half of homeless Americans have schizophrenia.
>
> Learning Problem
> Hypoactivity
> Psychosis
> Euphoric Mood
> Depressed Mood
> Somatic or Sexual Dysfunction
> Hyperactivity
> Guilt or Obsession
> Sexually Deviant Behavior
> Odd/Eccentric or Suspicious Personality
> Anxious or Fearful or Dependent Personality
> Dramatic or Erratic or Antisocial Personality
>
>
> Diagnostic Criteria
> Characteristic symptoms: Two (or more) of the following, each present
> for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if
> successfully treated):
>
>
> delusions
> hallucinations
> disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence)
> grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
> negative symptoms (i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition)
> Note: Only one Criterion A symptom is required if delusions are
> bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running
> commentary on the person's behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices
> conversing with each other.
>
> Social/occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time
> since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of
> functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care are
> markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset (or when the
> onset is in childhood or adolescence, failure to achieve expected
> level of interpersonal, academic, or occupational achievement).
>
>
> Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6
> months. This 6-month period must include at least 1 month of symptoms
> (or less if successfully treated) that meet Criterion A (i.e., active-
> phase symptoms) and may include periods of prodromal or residual
> symptoms. During these prodromal or residual periods, the signs of the
> disturbance may be manifested by only negative symptoms or two or more
> symptoms listed in Criterion A present in an attenuated form (e.g.,
> odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).
>
>
> Schizoaffective and Mood Disorder exclusion: Schizoaffective Disorder
> and Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features have been ruled out because
> either (1) no Major Depressive Episode, Manic Episode, or Mixed
> Episode have occurred concurrently with the active-phase symptoms; or
> (2) if mood episodes have occurred during active-phase symptoms, their
> total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the active
> and residual periods.
>
>
> Substance/general medical condition exclusion: The disturbance is not
> due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug
> of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.
>
>
> Relationship to a Pervasive Developmental Disorder: If there is a
> history of Autistic Disorder or another Pervasive Developmental
> Disorder, the additional diagnosis of Schizophrenia is made only if
> prominent delusions or hallucinations are also present for at least a
> month (or less if successfully treated).
>
>
> Diagnostic Criteria of Schizophrenia Subtypes
>
>
> Paranoid Type
> A type of Schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met:
>
> Preoccupation with one or more delusions or frequent auditory
> hallucinations.
> None of the following is prominent: disorganized speech, disorganized
> or catatonic behavior, or flat or inappropriate affect.
> Catatonic Type
> A type of Schizophrenia in which the clinical picture is dominated by
> at least two of the following:
>
> motoric immobility as evidenced by catalepsy (including waxy
> flexibility) or stupor
> excessive motor activity (that is apparently purposeless and not
> influenced by external stimuli)
> extreme negativism (an apparently motiveless resistance to all
> instructions or maintenance of a rigid posture against attempts to be
> moved) or mutism
> peculiarities of voluntary movement as evidenced by posturing
> (voluntary assumption of inappropriate or bizarre postures)
> stereotyped movements, prominent mannerisms, or prominent grimacing
> echolalia or echopraxia
> Disorganized Type
> A type of Schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met:
>
> All of the following are prominent:
> disorganized speech
> disorganized behavior
> flat or inappropriate affect
> The criteria are not met for Catatonic Type.
> Undifferentiated Type
> A type of Schizophrenia in which symptoms that meet Criterion A are
> present, but the criteria are not met for the Paranoid, Disorganized,
> or Catatonic Type.
>
> Residual Type
> A type of Schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met:
>
> Absence of prominent delusions, hallucinations, disorganized speech,
> and grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior.
> There is continuing evidence of the disturbance, as indicated by the
> presence of negative symptoms or two or more symptoms listed in
> Criterion A for Schizophrenia, present in an attenuated form (e.g.,
> odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).
>
> Greetings,
>
> Berty

That was very informative, Bert, and I thank you very much. Sadly, it
includes definitions which meet the symptoms of my daughter I have been
talking about, but at least I now know what the situation is.

tks again, Jim

Well as you will find if you go to a couple different psychiatrists you will
get two complete different diagnosis's. Good luck. It would take a
evaluation on her last year of life and how she is doing currently. There is
a DSM IV that you can look up on-line to see if she fits this or that. Good
luck again.

Girl

"Jim" <at@peace.com> wrote in message
news:463dd4b6$0$34242$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...
> Thanks for your reply, Girl. Because of privacy-laws, we are restricted on
> what we are told,..not even the diagnosis has been revealed to us. I just
> need to know if she is considered paranoid sz, or a paranoid personality
> disorder. With this knowledge, I would have a better idea on how to
> approach
> her with a view to counselling. Her delusions are based on misinterpreted
> events in the present time, while her sz mother and sister are very
> long-term and intricate.
>
> Jason
>
>
> "girl30" <girl30us2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:zKe%h.986$ri3.809@newsfe02.lga...
>> Jim,
>>
>> Men usually become mentally ill around 18 years of age. Women don't
>> become
>> mentally ill until around age 28. So this is how Schizophrenia and many
>> other mental illnesses are. As far as getting help for someone check your
>> local social services and find out what is legal where your at.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> girl
>>
>> "Jim" <at@peace.com> wrote in message
>> news:463d1db8$0$90309$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...
>> > There is sz in my immediate family, but there is one child who's now 30
>> > who
>> > had not shown symptoms until recently. The difference also was, she was
> a
>> > speed user for a couple of periods of time. She used to inject and the
>> > last
>> > time was twice a day for 4 weeks. That was 18 mths ago. Prior to that
> time
>> > she was using speed at a rate unknown.
>> >
>> > My question is about her chronic paranoia she gets from time to time.
>> > It
>> > doesnt *seem* to be the same paranoia as my other 2 family members
>> > gets,
>> > and
>> > it doesnt respond as well to drug-therapy.
>> >
>> > The differences in her paranoia are: about things going around her,
>> > not
>> > stuff that happened in the past which is characteristic of my other
> child.
>> >
>> > Is this difference significant in that her paranoia is likely to be
>> > drug
>> > related? I am at a loss on what is going on here.
>> >
>> > thanks,...Jim
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

"Jim" <at@peace.com> wrote in message
news:463d1db8$0$90309$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...

> she was using speed at a rate unknown.
>
probably very fast