Re: So haldol and risperdal are similar

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:13:20 GMT, "Quiet Neighbor"
<private@spamless.net> wrote:

>I would bet that what the p-doc said is not true. Many times, when I heard
>someone got TD, they were taking Haldol for years. I have yet to
>communicate with someone that got TD from Risperdal.
>
>My understanding is that the atypical neuroleptics are, in some way,
>significantly different than the older anti-cholinergics.
>
>
>"Luke Flyswatter" <chewie_roar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1163045656.536444.32720@h54g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>> Never knew that one. Learned it from my doc tonight. Who would of
>> thunk it?
>>
>


I have taken Risperdal for years and done well. I wouldn't touch
Haldol or Stelazine again with a ten foot pole.


---------
Ray W. Kinserlow Jr.
Lubbock, Texas
webpage http://members.cox.net/rkinserlow/
blog http://360.yahoo.com/kinserlow
---------

"Ray Kinserlow" <me@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:h0vot21glf07jok9r6b44d0i78sprr0thp@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:13:20 GMT, "Quiet Neighbor"
> <private@spamless.net> wrote:
>
>>I would bet that what the p-doc said is not true. Many times, when
>>I heard
>>someone got TD, they were taking Haldol for years. I have yet to
>>communicate with someone that got TD from Risperdal.
>>
>>My understanding is that the atypical neuroleptics are, in some way,
>>significantly different than the older anti-cholinergics.
>>
>
> I have taken Risperdal for years and done well. I wouldn't touch
> Haldol or Stelazine again with a ten foot pole.

The older antipsychotics (aka neuroleptics) are more likely to cause
TD than the new ones, because they inhibit dopamine chemistry
everywhere in the brain. The newer atypical antipsychotics (like
Risperdal) are *less* likely to cause TD or other dyskinesias, which
is a blessing. On the other hand, some of them (Zyprexa, Clozapine)
can cause diabetes.

You can find more details on the differences between the two
generations of antipsychotics in my book, on my Web site, if you are
interested.

--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.

Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/

=====

But the old ones don't cause diabetes like some of the new ones. (I may
have read that at your new web site).

"Nom dePlume" <nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:erj4ad0ub3@news1.newsguy.com...
> "Ray Kinserlow" <me@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:h0vot21glf07jok9r6b44d0i78sprr0thp@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:13:20 GMT, "Quiet Neighbor"
>> <private@spamless.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I would bet that what the p-doc said is not true. Many times, when I
>>>heard
>>>someone got TD, they were taking Haldol for years. I have yet to
>>>communicate with someone that got TD from Risperdal.
>>>
>>>My understanding is that the atypical neuroleptics are, in some way,
>>>significantly different than the older anti-cholinergics.
>>>
>>
>> I have taken Risperdal for years and done well. I wouldn't touch
>> Haldol or Stelazine again with a ten foot pole.
>
> The older antipsychotics (aka neuroleptics) are more likely to cause TD
> than the new ones, because they inhibit dopamine chemistry everywhere in
> the brain. The newer atypical antipsychotics (like Risperdal) are *less*
> likely to cause TD or other dyskinesias, which is a blessing. On the other
> hand, some of them (Zyprexa, Clozapine) can cause diabetes.
>
> You can find more details on the differences between the two generations
> of antipsychotics in my book, on my Web site, if you are interested.
>
> --
> Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
> Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
>
> Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
> http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/
>
> =====
>
>

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:20:00 -0500, "Just Me" <justme@nospam.com>
wrote:

>But the old ones don't cause diabetes like some of the new ones. (I may
>have read that at your new web site).
>
>"Nom dePlume" <nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:erj4ad0ub3@news1.newsguy.com...
>> "Ray Kinserlow" <me@nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:h0vot21glf07jok9r6b44d0i78sprr0thp@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:13:20 GMT, "Quiet Neighbor"
>>> <private@spamless.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I would bet that what the p-doc said is not true. Many times, when I
>>>>heard
>>>>someone got TD, they were taking Haldol for years. I have yet to
>>>>communicate with someone that got TD from Risperdal.
>>>>
>>>>My understanding is that the atypical neuroleptics are, in some way,
>>>>significantly different than the older anti-cholinergics.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have taken Risperdal for years and done well. I wouldn't touch
>>> Haldol or Stelazine again with a ten foot pole.
>>
>> The older antipsychotics (aka neuroleptics) are more likely to cause TD
>> than the new ones, because they inhibit dopamine chemistry everywhere in
>> the brain. The newer atypical antipsychotics (like Risperdal) are *less*
>> likely to cause TD or other dyskinesias, which is a blessing. On the other
>> hand, some of them (Zyprexa, Clozapine) can cause diabetes.
>>
>> You can find more details on the differences between the two generations
>> of antipsychotics in my book, on my Web site, if you are interested.
>>
>> --
>> Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
>> Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
>>

If I understand correctly, any of the anti-psychotics can cause weight
gain which can lead to diabetes. The main reason it wasn't noticable
with the typical anti-psychotics was no one could stand to take the
damn stuff long enough to have weight gain.

Regards,
Ray


---------
Ray W. Kinserlow Jr.
Lubbock, Texas
webpage http://members.cox.net/rkinserlow/
blog http://360.yahoo.com/kinserlow
---------
>> Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
>> http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/
>>
>> =====
>>
>>
>

I don't remember reading that the diabetes was caused specifically by weight
gain from taking the new drugs. It just said the new drugs themselves
caused it and the older drugs did not.

You usually need to take a side effect med with the old anti psychotics. If
you don't, then I agree with you that you would be miserable and would
probably quit taking it.

"Ray Kinserlow" <me@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:h8mst296iqhgapf8d2kjik6g1dsg9ljfbh@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:20:00 -0500, "Just Me" <justme@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>>But the old ones don't cause diabetes like some of the new ones. (I may
>>have read that at your new web site).
>>
>>"Nom dePlume" <nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:erj4ad0ub3@news1.newsguy.com...
>>> "Ray Kinserlow" <me@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:h0vot21glf07jok9r6b44d0i78sprr0thp@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:13:20 GMT, "Quiet Neighbor"
>>>> <private@spamless.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I would bet that what the p-doc said is not true. Many times, when I
>>>>>heard
>>>>>someone got TD, they were taking Haldol for years. I have yet to
>>>>>communicate with someone that got TD from Risperdal.
>>>>>
>>>>>My understanding is that the atypical neuroleptics are, in some way,
>>>>>significantly different than the older anti-cholinergics.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have taken Risperdal for years and done well. I wouldn't touch
>>>> Haldol or Stelazine again with a ten foot pole.
>>>
>>> The older antipsychotics (aka neuroleptics) are more likely to cause TD
>>> than the new ones, because they inhibit dopamine chemistry everywhere in
>>> the brain. The newer atypical antipsychotics (like Risperdal) are *less*
>>> likely to cause TD or other dyskinesias, which is a blessing. On the
>>> other
>>> hand, some of them (Zyprexa, Clozapine) can cause diabetes.
>>>
>>> You can find more details on the differences between the two generations
>>> of antipsychotics in my book, on my Web site, if you are interested.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
>>> Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
>>>
>
> If I understand correctly, any of the anti-psychotics can cause weight
> gain which can lead to diabetes. The main reason it wasn't noticable
> with the typical anti-psychotics was no one could stand to take the
> damn stuff long enough to have weight gain.
>
> Regards,
> Ray
>
>
> ---------
> Ray W. Kinserlow Jr.
> Lubbock, Texas
> webpage http://members.cox.net/rkinserlow/
> blog http://360.yahoo.com/kinserlow
> ---------
>>> Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
>>> http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/
>>>
>>> =====
>>>
>>>
>>

"Just Me" <justme@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:45de6d88$0$16981$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>I don't remember reading that the diabetes was caused specifically by
>weight gain from taking the new drugs. It just said the new drugs
>themselves caused it and the older drugs did not.
>
> You usually need to take a side effect med with the old anti
> psychotics. If you don't, then I agree with you that you would be
> miserable and would probably quit taking it.

My impression is that there is more going on than weight gain alone
leading to diabetes with Zyprexa and Clozaril. The drugs themselves
appear to cause diabetes directly, but I am not aware that a mechanism
has been discovered yet.

--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.

Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/

=====

"Just Me" <justme@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:45de4149$0$8936$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> But the old ones don't cause diabetes like some of the new ones. (I
> may have read that at your new web site).


Here's hoping that the diabetes problem doesn't happen for all of the
atypical antipsychotics!
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.

Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/

=====

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:39:43 -0800, "Nom dePlume"
<nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Just Me" <justme@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:45de6d88$0$16981$4c368faf@roadrunner.com.. .
>>I don't remember reading that the diabetes was caused specifically by
>>weight gain from taking the new drugs. It just said the new drugs
>>themselves caused it and the older drugs did not.
>>
>> You usually need to take a side effect med with the old anti
>> psychotics. If you don't, then I agree with you that you would be
>> miserable and would probably quit taking it.
>
>My impression is that there is more going on than weight gain alone
>leading to diabetes with Zyprexa and Clozaril. The drugs themselves
>appear to cause diabetes directly, but I am not aware that a mechanism
>has been discovered yet.


While I am willing to admit there may be unknown factors in Zyprexa
and Clozaril which cause increased risk of diabetes, I also know that
weight gain alone is a risk factor for diabetes.

As far as the old anti-psychotics, the side effects of the side
effects drug( I took Cogentin as I recall) were a pain in the kazoo
also. I'll stick with my Risperdal.

Regards,
Ray


---------
Ray W. Kinserlow Jr.
Lubbock, Texas
webpage http://members.cox.net/rkinserlow/
blog http://360.yahoo.com/kinserlow
---------

I hope it doesn't either, but for those who take the old drugs, that's one
less worry. My daily routine now is so crammed that I don't believe I would
want to work in diabetes treatments also.

"Nom dePlume" <nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:erlr62025mu@news2.newsguy.com...
> "Just Me" <justme@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:45de4149$0$8936$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> But the old ones don't cause diabetes like some of the new ones. (I may
>> have read that at your new web site).
>
>
> Here's hoping that the diabetes problem doesn't happen for all of the
> atypical antipsychotics!
> --
> Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
> Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
>
> Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
> http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/
>
> =====
>
>

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:40:42 -0800, "Nom dePlume"
<nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Just Me" <justme@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:45de4149$0$8936$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> But the old ones don't cause diabetes like some of the new ones. (I
>> may have read that at your new web site).
>
>
>Here's hoping that the diabetes problem doesn't happen for all of the
>atypical antipsychotics!


You might be familar with these links but here they are anyway:

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/...es/004646.html

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/...es/004306.html

The one about Metformin, I showed my pdoc and he agreed it was
promising but not yet SOP.

Regards,
Ray


---------
Ray W. Kinserlow Jr.
Lubbock, Texas
webpage http://members.cox.net/rkinserlow/
blog http://360.yahoo.com/kinserlow
---------

"Ray Kinserlow" <me@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:a5sst21gcuvikt3a9rb4oic9l4kqsapndb@4ax.com...
> While I am willing to admit there may be unknown factors in Zyprexa
> and Clozaril which cause increased risk of diabetes, I also know
> that
> weight gain alone is a risk factor for diabetes.

Agreed.

> As far as the old anti-psychotics, the side effects of the side
> effects drug( I took Cogentin as I recall) were a pain in the kazoo
> also.

Also agreed.

> I'll stick with my Risperdal.

Risperdal may be just fine in this regard. I haven't seen any studies
that point to diabetes risks for Risperdal, just Zyprexa and Clozaril.

--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.

Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/

=====

"Ray Kinserlow" <me@nospam.net> wrote in message
news3vst2ht07f9jk243ssd5mpfv6vvgjc5p0@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:40:42 -0800, "Nom dePlume"
> <nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>"Just Me" <justme@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>news:45de4149$0$8936$4c368faf@roadrunner.com.. .
>>> But the old ones don't cause diabetes like some of the new ones.
>>> (I
>>> may have read that at your new web site).
>>
>>
>>Here's hoping that the diabetes problem doesn't happen for all of
>>the
>>atypical antipsychotics!
>
>
> You might be familar with these links but here they are anyway:
>
> http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/...es/004646.html
>
> http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/...es/004306.html
>
> The one about Metformin, I showed my pdoc and he agreed it was
> promising but not yet SOP.
>
> Regards,
> Ray

I had read about the connection between histamine blockade and weight
gain, but not about Metformin. The Metformin article is very
interesting indeed, and I'm glad you pointed it out. It would be
wonderful if Metformin prevented weight gain and diabetes when
administered along with antipsychotics.

--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.

Guide to Medications for Mental Illness:
http://www.geocities.com/nomdeplume1000/

=====

Ray Kinserlow wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:40:42 -0800, "Nom dePlume"
> <nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >"Just Me" <justme@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >news:45de4149$0$8936$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >> But the old ones don't cause diabetes like some of the new ones. (I
> >> may have read that at your new web site).
> >
> >
> >Here's hoping that the diabetes problem doesn't happen for all of the
> >atypical antipsychotics!
>
>
> You might be familar with these links but here they are anyway:
>
> http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/...es/004646.html
>
> http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/...es/004306.html
>
> The one about Metformin, I showed my pdoc and he agreed it was
> promising but not yet SOP.
>
> Regards,
> Ray
>
>
> ---------
> Ray W. Kinserlow Jr.
> Lubbock, Texas
> webpage http://members.cox.net/rkinserlow/
> blog http://360.yahoo.com/kinserlow
> ---------










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