tough questions for those more experienced than me

What do you do if someone volunteers to do something for you without you
asking first; and promises to do it; and then changes their mind and,
instead of telling you about changing their mind, decides to be avoidant and
non-confrontational and just never mention it; knowing that you'll be too
embarrassed to ask about it, and the whole thing will be quietly forgotten;
except that you were counting on them, and them letting you down fucks
things up for you?

And what do you do if someone tells a whopper of a lie in public, then lets
you go on believing that lie, but blabs that it's a lie to the most
inappropriate person and the person least likely to be trusted with a
secret; and doesn't expect you to find out?

And what if you love this person and want to spend the rest of your life
with them; and were planning to change countries to be with them; and faced
the prospect of having no income of your own and being totally dependent on
them in your new country; and you realize now that only a total fool would
put that kin of trust in them?

My heart hurts right now and I feel very, very betrayed. But love is stupid,
so I don't want out.

Woody
durwoodie@hushmail.com

Hell if I know.

However, the interesting aspect is that I have had the impression that meds
interfere with falling in love.

I once had a friend who repeatedly chastised himself for digging holes for
himself. He was really good at digging those holes, but his being aware of
the problem didn't stop him.

QN wrote:

> Hell if I know.
>
> However, the interesting aspect is that I have had the impression that
> meds interfere with falling in love.
>
> I once had a friend who repeatedly chastised himself for digging holes for
> himself. He was really good at digging those holes, but his being aware
> of the problem didn't stop him.

Knowing that a car is on fire won't help you put it out. You need some
water, or fire extinguisher.

In the same way: knowing that you have a problem, and the cause(s) of that
problem, does not lead to a solution. If it's a problem in the psyche then
it will require a change of some sort, and potentially facing failure in
order to expand and change. You and I make "right" or "wrong" choices using
what we know at the moment, and that's all we really can do.

I have made many poor decisions, and mistakes. In my experience changing
some thought, behavior, or action, often requires expanding my experiences,
and perceptions. If it was a matter of analyzing my thoughts alone, I would
have probably solved it already. So, I read books about new subjects that
may help. I analyze my current thoughts, and experiences using the new
knowledge. I apply that knowledge, and if it works, and I like what I have
become, I continue. If it doesn't work, I find another solution that may
work. I find my own truth this way for my life.

Keeping an open mind sometimes means being open to things I have labeled
before as "shit" or "useless." I look deeper, and find a meaning behind the
information I previously labeled in such a way, and this allows me to
understand why others believe in it, even if I later choose to not believe
what they do, or the view itself.

-George

Woody wrote:

> What do you do if someone volunteers to do something for you without you
> asking first; and promises to do it; and then changes their mind and,
> instead of telling you about changing their mind, decides to be avoidant
> and non-confrontational and just never mention it; knowing that you'll be
> too embarrassed to ask about it, and the whole thing will be quietly
> forgotten; except that you were counting on them, and them letting you
> down fucks things up for you?

I try to abandon expectations and learn why I have expectations. I
recognize the good purpose and intention behind the expectations I had,
because this seems to avoid anger, and saying things I regret. As things
have progressed in my life I have tried to understand and learn why people
with good intentions say hurtful things to me. I also have put my foot in
my mouth, on more than one occasion.

When I have lashed out against someone, because they changed, or I didn't
get what I wanted, it has never lead to me getting what I wanted. When I
have understood their intent, with peace, and an understanding of what I
want, and an understanding of what the other person wants, I have made
progress.

> And what do you do if someone tells a whopper of a lie in public, then
> lets you go on believing that lie, but blabs that it's a lie to the most
> inappropriate person and the person least likely to be trusted with a
> secret; and doesn't expect you to find out?

If you know it is a lie, then treat the person that lied with respect and
compassion. The person that told the lie had a good reason that they
justified. Had you or I lived with the circumstances that person has, we
would make the same decision.

If you find anger towards this person, I suggest that you do something you
enjoy, away from the reminders of that person, so that you can ask yourself
what and why, and come to a new understanding of what you can learn about
yourself, and the person that hurt you. If you don't find the answers, then
expand your experiences, and perceptions, with more information.

> And what if you love this person and want to spend the rest of your life
> with them; and were planning to change countries to be with them; and
> faced the prospect of having no income of your own and being totally
> dependent on them in your new country; and you realize now that only a
> total fool would put that kin of trust in them?

Live and learn. We all make mistakes. If we don't make mistakes and learn
in life, there is little purpose to this plane of existence.

We are faced with lost jobs, lost friends, and lost property.

We can learn to succeed. We can learn to appreciate those around us.

I choose to live, and learn. Thus, I choose to fail at times, because I am
not an expert. I choose to be a baker, and the bread is my life :-)

> My heart hurts right now and I feel very, very betrayed. But love is
> stupid, so I don't want out.

Love yourself, and show yourself some compassion. The person that made
choices that caused you to feel hurt is most likely hurt as well. Loss of
love is never permanent, and love comes and goes, as we make it.

-George

On Jul 2, 4:54*pm, "Woody" <durwoo...@hushmail.com> wrote:
> What do you do if someone volunteers to do something for you without you
> asking first; and promises to do it; and then changes their mind and,
> instead of telling you about changing their mind, decides to be avoidant and
> non-confrontational and just never mention it; knowing that you'll be too
> embarrassed to ask about it, and the whole thing will be quietly forgotten;
> except that you were counting on them, and them letting you down fucks
> things up for you?
>
> And what do you do if someone tells a whopper of a lie in public, then lets
> you go on believing that lie, but blabs that it's a lie to the most
> inappropriate person and the person least likely to be trusted with a
> secret; and doesn't expect you to find out?
>
> And what if you love this person and want to spend the rest of your life
> with them; and were planning to change countries to be with them; and faced
> the prospect of having no income of your own and being totally dependent on
> them in your new country; and you realize now that only a total fool would
> put that kin of trust in them?
>
> My heart hurts right now and I feel very, very betrayed. But love is stupid,
> so I don't want out.
>
> Woody
> durwoo...@hushmail.com



Hmm, I would want to know the full story before really saying anything
really... do you feel you got "played" (maliciously, to boost their
own ego probably) or was the person just a confused mess themselves
and screwed up, made a lot of mistakes? Or, something in between went
on here is my guess... hmm. If they toyed with you, forget them and
move on to someone better. Don't cling to someone who lies to you and
toys with you in a serious relationship. This person needs to learn
that they can't act like that. Playing with your heart, mind and
financial poverty/vulnerability is a lousy thing to do. I would say
distance yourself from anyone who does that. You can no longer trust
this person.

Once you do that, after a while you might give them one more chance if
they come back begging for forgiveness and say they were all wrong,
but keep your eye on them and realize you can never fully trust them
again quite the same way.

On Jul 2, 4:54*pm, "Woody" <durwoo...@hushmail.com> wrote:

>love is stupid,
> so I don't want out.


?????? The only way this would make sense if if you think you can
never find anyone who treats you better.

"Gelly" <Gelly.D@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ec725c7-cdb5-4ea5-a95d-5301e77283a3@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...


Hmm, I would want to know the full story before really saying anything
really... do you feel you got "played" (maliciously, to boost their
own ego probably) or was the person just a confused mess themselves
and screwed up, made a lot of mistakes? Or, something in between went
on here is my guess... hmm. If they toyed with you, forget them and
move on to someone better. Don't cling to someone who lies to you and
toys with you in a serious relationship. This person needs to learn
that they can't act like that. Playing with your heart, mind and
financial poverty/vulnerability is a lousy thing to do. I would say
distance yourself from anyone who does that. You can no longer trust
this person.

Once you do that, after a while you might give them one more chance if
they come back begging for forgiveness and say they were all wrong,
but keep your eye on them and realize you can never fully trust them
again quite the same way.

------------------------------------------------------

I can discuss it with you in private but not in public because other
people's secrets are involved. My eyes have definitely been opened to
something, however. In the last few years this person has made other serious
decisions through avoidant and non-confrontational behaviour, and I didn't
clue into the significance of that until that kind of behaviour victimized
me personally. It's going to be a major issue in our continuing relationship
because I don't think I can change that aspect of their personality. I can
expect to be blindsided on a regular basis in the future; the person will
just do shit, or not do shit, and avoid telling me until it's a fait
accompli. I love that person but I am not sure I can _like_ someone with
that personality trait and pattern of behaviour. Sure, we can get married
and fuck each other's brains out, but can we be friends? And if we can't be
friends, what kind of relationship is it really going to be?

I don't want out of the relationship at this point. I just need to do a lot
of hard thinking and decide for myself whether I can live with this person's
flaws. From my perspective this is a very, very serious one.

Woody
durwoodie@hushmail.com

"Gelly" <Gelly.D@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a69fdd19-6275-4139-902d-35e4563c084e@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 2, 4:54 pm, "Woody" <durwoo...@hushmail.com> wrote:

>love is stupid,
> so I don't want out.


?????? The only way this would make sense if if you think you can
never find anyone who treats you better.

--------------------------------------------------------

I already _have_ someone who treats me a _lot_ better. That's the beauty of
having two girlfriends who know about each other. The problem is that they
come as a package and I'm not sure if I can maintain a relationship with the
"Witch of the East" should I ditch the "Witch of the West."

In any case, the offending party has a _lot_ of very positive qualities too.
Is this one negative bad enough to outweigh all the positives? I don't know
right now.

Woody
durwoodie@hushmail.com

Sounds like you need more physical in your relationship. Bring a
jimmy hat!

Woody wrote:
> "Gelly" <Gelly.D@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a69fdd19-6275-4139-902d-35e4563c084e@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 2, 4:54 pm, "Woody" <durwoo...@hushmail.com> wrote:
>
>> love is stupid,
>> so I don't want out.
>
>
> ?????? The only way this would make sense if if you think you can
> never find anyone who treats you better.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> I already _have_ someone who treats me a _lot_ better. That's the beauty of
> having two girlfriends who know about each other. The problem is that they
> come as a package and I'm not sure if I can maintain a relationship with the
> "Witch of the East" should I ditch the "Witch of the West."
>
> In any case, the offending party has a _lot_ of very positive qualities too.
> Is this one negative bad enough to outweigh all the positives? I don't know
> right now.
>
> Woody
> durwoodie@hushmail.com
>
>
Look. Don;t expect too much and you will be surprised!

Save some money for bus ticket if your plans fail.

Womens are wonderful!

Ne zna zena ko je kakve vjere, stotinu ce promijeniti
vjerah da ucini sto joj srcu drago!

Ba a cool guy , and no problem!

Greets

Woody wrote:
> What do you do if someone volunteers to do something for you without you
> asking first; and promises to do it; and then changes their mind and,
> instead of telling you about changing their mind, decides to be avoidant and
> non-confrontational and just never mention it; knowing that you'll be too
> embarrassed to ask about it, and the whole thing will be quietly forgotten;
> except that you were counting on them, and them letting you down fucks
> things up for you?
>
> And what do you do if someone tells a whopper of a lie in public, then lets
> you go on believing that lie, but blabs that it's a lie to the most
> inappropriate person and the person least likely to be trusted with a
> secret; and doesn't expect you to find out?
>
> And what if you love this person and want to spend the rest of your life
> with them; and were planning to change countries to be with them; and faced
> the prospect of having no income of your own and being totally dependent on
> them in your new country; and you realize now that only a total fool would
> put that kin of trust in them?
>
> My heart hurts right now and I feel very, very betrayed. But love is stupid,
> so I don't want out.
>
> Woody
> durwoodie@hushmail.com
>
>
NOthing unusual here. It's just a normal human behavior!

Greets

"Duke Leto" <spock_smokes@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0cafb0ee-5fb5-47df-8145-e88bf19a920b@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> Sounds like you need more physical in your relationship. Bring a
> jimmy hat!

Is that slang for a raincoat?

I've been working downtown way too long. (It's a condom)
I'm learning all kinds of things about hair extensions and hair oil,
too.

That someone sounds mentally ill. Do you remember the parable of
Jesus in the Gospel about building on sandy ground? I'd reread it.