154 lbs to 176 lbs possible?

Hey everyone,

My name's Cheng. I'm 18 and want to try bulking up. I'm currently 70
kgs (154 lbs) and wanna be 80 kgs (176 lbs).

I own 1 dumbell with a 5 kg set, 10 kg set, have a pole I found that
lets me do barbells and a Swiss ball.

I actually don't do half bad with what I have. I'm able to do my
biceps, triceps and stomach muscles. I do push ups and that as well.

I'm just wondering if it's possible to get to 80 kgs with no protein
powder... there's just this guy that claims you can do that. He's
apparently reputable and has won awards in modeling competitions and
the like online.

I'm interested in his programme, he seems trustworthy but I'm yet to
invest in his information. So yeah, any feedback about him would be
great.

Cheers,

Cheng.

----------------------------------------------------------

Check out www.aussieaznguns.blogspot.com

Cheng. wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> My name's Cheng. I'm 18 and want to try bulking up. I'm currently 70
> kgs (154 lbs) and wanna be 80 kgs (176 lbs).
>
> I own 1 dumbell with a 5 kg set, 10 kg set, have a pole I found that
> lets me do barbells and a Swiss ball.
>

Having somewhere you could do pull ups/chins from would be a
useful addition. Look up push up and pull up workouts on youtube for
some handy tips.

Cheng. wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> My name's Cheng. I'm 18 and want to try bulking up. I'm currently 70
> kgs (154 lbs) and wanna be 80 kgs (176 lbs).
>
> I own 1 dumbell with a 5 kg set, 10 kg set, have a pole I found that
> lets me do barbells and a Swiss ball.
>
> I actually don't do half bad with what I have. I'm able to do my
> biceps, triceps and stomach muscles. I do push ups and that as well.
>
> I'm just wondering if it's possible to get to 80 kgs with no protein
> powder...

Yes, but not unless you're actually lifting weights with progressively
increasing poundages. What you have (described above) is not suitable.
Join a gym or invest in equipment for a home gym.


> there's just this guy that claims you can do that. He's
> apparently reputable and has won awards in modeling competitions and
> the like online.

'this guy' claims a lot of things. 'this guy' is everywhere and tells
everyone just about anything.

>
> I'm interested in his programme, he seems trustworthy but I'm yet to
> invest in his information.

There's no need to pay money for what can easily be found online. If you
want to buy something to get some basics under your belt, try reading
one of the Beyond Brawn type books by Stuart McRobert. You won't go
wrong using that as the beginning of your education in weight training.

> So yeah, any feedback about him would be
> great.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cheng.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Check out www.aussieaznguns.blogspot.com
>


--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

"Cheng." <jaykay21089@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4ea7ea5b-e943-4da3-bfdc-a3295eccfa0f@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Hey everyone,
>
> My name's Cheng. I'm 18 and want to try bulking up. I'm currently 70
> kgs (154 lbs) and wanna be 80 kgs (176 lbs).
>
> I own 1 dumbell with a 5 kg set, 10 kg set, have a pole I found that
> lets me do barbells and a Swiss ball.
>
> I actually don't do half bad with what I have. I'm able to do my
> biceps, triceps and stomach muscles. I do push ups and that as well.
>
> I'm just wondering if it's possible to get to 80 kgs with no protein
> powder... there's just this guy that claims you can do that. He's
> apparently reputable and has won awards in modeling competitions and
> the like online.
>
> I'm interested in his programme, he seems trustworthy but I'm yet to
> invest in his information. So yeah, any feedback about him would be
> great.

I don't know the program about which you're speaking, but if your goal
is to add muscle, one tried and true method is to squat a lot. Google
"20 rep squats" and do some reading. You will want a power rack and a
heavy barbell set, or to belong to a gym that has this equipment. A
Swiss ball won't do much for you in this regard, I'm afraid, nor will 10
kg dumbbells.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008, Cheng. wrote:

> I'm just wondering if it's possible to get to 80 kgs with no protein
> powder...

Yes, you just need to eat lots, doesn't have to be protein powder but
that's cheap and easy, and lift lots - your weight set won't be enough.

> I'm interested in his programme, he seems trustworthy but I'm yet to
> invest in his information. So yeah, any feedback about him would be
> great.

You didn't give us a link to him or anything. But it doesn't matter: he's
full of shit. The secret is that there are no secrets. Weight training
isn't complicated. Nobody has anything they can tell you that will make
you get stronger faster than just doing good old-fashioned weight
training.

tom

--
Hesgadin. It was in two parts - both of them silent. I remember this map
came with a letter accusing me of stealing eggs. I had never understood
the relationship of the map to the accusation. I still don't, but I'm
grateful for the map.

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008, Steve Freides wrote:

> I don't know the program about which you're speaking, but if your goal
> is to add muscle, one tried and true method is to squat a lot. Google
> "20 rep squats" and do some reading.

Is that really tried and true, or an old wives' tale?

Nothing wrong with squats, but they do next to nothing for your upper
body, and there's no sense doing 20-rep sets.

10-rep squats plus 10-rep overhead presses, and we're talking.

tom

--
Hesgadin. It was in two parts - both of them silent. I remember this map
came with a letter accusing me of stealing eggs. I had never understood
the relationship of the map to the accusation. I still don't, but I'm
grateful for the map.

"Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0806112230570.11913@urchin.eart h.li...
> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008, Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> I don't know the program about which you're speaking, but if your
>> goal is to add muscle, one tried and true method is to squat a lot.
>> Google "20 rep squats" and do some reading.
>
> Is that really tried and true, or an old wives' tale?
>
> Nothing wrong with squats, but they do next to nothing for your upper
> body, and there's no sense doing 20-rep sets.
>
> 10-rep squats plus 10-rep overhead presses, and we're talking.

Hypertrophy ain't my thing, but I don't think it's an old wives' tale, I
think it works and people continue to practice it, not continuously, but
a few cycles a year can help. No one suggested _not_ pressing or doing
other movements, but everything I've read and discussed with people
suggests that a squat belongs in most lifting programs designed to
improve both size and strength.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Steve Freides wrote:

> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0806112230570.11913@urchin.eart h.li...
>> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008, Steve Freides wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know the program about which you're speaking, but if your
>>> goal is to add muscle, one tried and true method is to squat a lot.
>>> Google "20 rep squats" and do some reading.
>>
>> Is that really tried and true, or an old wives' tale?
>>
>> Nothing wrong with squats, but they do next to nothing for your upper
>> body, and there's no sense doing 20-rep sets.
>>
>> 10-rep squats plus 10-rep overhead presses, and we're talking.
>
> Hypertrophy ain't my thing, but I don't think it's an old wives' tale, I
> think it works and people continue to practice it, not continuously, but
> a few cycles a year can help. No one suggested _not_ pressing or doing
> other movements, but everything I've read and discussed with people
> suggests that a squat belongs in most lifting programs designed to
> improve both size and strength.

I'm not disputing that for an instant. The squat is the king of exercises.
I'd do 'em myself if the gym had weights big enough.

It's the use of 20 reps, and the idea that it might have any significant
effect on the upper body, that i'm disputing.

tom

--
We do what we must because we can.

"Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0806122027240.17211@urchin.eart h.li...
> On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
>> news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0806112230570.11913@urchin.eart h.li...
>>> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008, Steve Freides wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't know the program about which you're speaking, but if your
>>>> goal is to add muscle, one tried and true method is to squat a lot.
>>>> Google "20 rep squats" and do some reading.
>>>
>>> Is that really tried and true, or an old wives' tale?
>>>
>>> Nothing wrong with squats, but they do next to nothing for your
>>> upper
>>> body, and there's no sense doing 20-rep sets.
>>>
>>> 10-rep squats plus 10-rep overhead presses, and we're talking.
>>
>> Hypertrophy ain't my thing, but I don't think it's an old wives'
>> tale, I think it works and people continue to practice it, not
>> continuously, but a few cycles a year can help. No one suggested
>> _not_ pressing or doing other movements, but everything I've read and
>> discussed with people suggests that a squat belongs in most lifting
>> programs designed to improve both size and strength.
>
> I'm not disputing that for an instant. The squat is the king of
> exercises. I'd do 'em myself if the gym had weights big enough.
>
> It's the use of 20 reps, and the idea that it might have any
> significant effect on the upper body, that i'm disputing.

I didn't see anything specifically about upper body in the original
post. To gain muscle, pound for pound, squatting is likely your best
bet. Even skinny, old me gains muscle if squat heavy and for enough
volume.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Dnia 2008-06-11 Cheng. napisa³(a):
> Hey everyone,
>
> My name's Cheng. I'm 18 and want to try bulking up. I'm currently 70
> kgs (154 lbs) and wanna be 80 kgs (176 lbs).
>
> I own 1 dumbell with a 5 kg set, 10 kg set, have a pole I found that
> lets me do barbells and a Swiss ball.

Normal workouts won't work with your setup. You need to move a lot of
weight. Bodyweight based workouts will be much better choice, but if
you want to gain weight, you need to judge your progress by the total
amount of weight moved, not by the amount of additional weight used. If
you gain 5 kg and your additional weight drops by 3 kg, you still
gained strength.

But in general it's possible to build muscles with next to nothing in
terms of equipment. Do pullups, pushups, one-armed pushups, timed
handstands, handstand pushups, and so on. They will build muscles all
right.

> I actually don't do half bad with what I have. I'm able to do my
> biceps, triceps and stomach muscles. I do push ups and that as well.

Biceps and triceps aren't especially heavy muscles. Even on
bodybuilders.

> I'm just wondering if it's possible to get to 80 kgs with no protein
> powder...

Sure. At 18 I was your weight, by the end of college I was 82. No
protein powder or even any lifting involved. I just matured.

But seriously, protein powders aren't anything special. It's just a
food, which works for some people. For most it doesn't do squat.

> there's just this guy that claims you can do that. He's
> apparently reputable and has won awards in modeling competitions and
> the like online.
>
> I'm interested in his programme, he seems trustworthy but I'm yet to
> invest in his information. So yeah, any feedback about him would be
> great.
>
> Cheng.

Working hard matters more than any program, but I've no idea about whom
you are talking, so no further comments.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Dnia 2008-06-12 Tom Anderson napisa³(a):
> On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> Hypertrophy ain't my thing, but I don't think it's an old wives' tale, I
>> think it works and people continue to practice it, not continuously, but
>> a few cycles a year can help. No one suggested _not_ pressing or doing
>> other movements, but everything I've read and discussed with people
>> suggests that a squat belongs in most lifting programs designed to
>> improve both size and strength.
>
> I'm not disputing that for an instant. The squat is the king of exercises.
> I'd do 'em myself if the gym had weights big enough.
>
> It's the use of 20 reps, and the idea that it might have any significant
> effect on the upper body, that i'm disputing.

I think there is a context to all that somewhere, which we might be
missing. At least that's what I tend to think nowadays. Let's take a
typical gym goer, who lives off benches, curls and something "for back".
If you make him squat hard, he will gain a lot of muscles, and fast. He
will gain also some upper body muscles too, simply because now he uses
real weights and his body needs to support them for quite some time, so
it will grow what's needed.

In this view of things 20 rep squats are just a way of insuring that
someone is squatting really hard. You do them by first doing a set of
10 to "failure", taking some rest with bar still on your back and then
doing another 10 somehow. One or two at the time, with some rest in
between, but bar still on your back. So 20 rep squats are hard. Really
hard. Strongmen do the to build their pain tolerance...

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Jun 11, 7:08 am, "Cheng." <jaykay21...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> My name's Cheng. I'm 18 and want to try bulking up. I'm currently 70
> kgs (154 lbs) and wanna be 80 kgs (176 lbs).
>
> I own 1 dumbell with a 5 kg set, 10 kg set, have a pole I found that
> lets me do barbells and a Swiss ball.
>
> I actually don't do half bad with what I have. I'm able to do my
> biceps, triceps and stomach muscles. I do push ups and that as well.
>
> I'm just wondering if it's possible to get to 80 kgs with no protein
> powder... there's just this guy that claims you can do that. He's
> apparently reputable and has won awards in modeling competitions and
> the like online.
>
> I'm interested in his programme, he seems trustworthy but I'm yet to
> invest in his information. So yeah, any feedback about him would be
> great.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cheng.

Forget his information and invest in some food!

More than 30 years ago I read an article in MuscleMag International
wherein the author recommended simply eating a variety of food. He
stated that by simply eating and doing some light exercise (situps,
pushups, deep knee bends, chins) the average teenager would put on
some quality or lean muscle weight.

You're 18. I bet you could gain ten pounds over the course of 3 to 6
months simply by increasing the calories you're taking in.

Best of luck.

--

Curt wrote:
> On Jun 11, 7:08 am, "Cheng." <jaykay21...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey everyone,
>>
>> My name's Cheng. I'm 18 and want to try bulking up. I'm currently 70
>> kgs (154 lbs) and wanna be 80 kgs (176 lbs).
>>
>> I own 1 dumbell with a 5 kg set, 10 kg set, have a pole I found that
>> lets me do barbells and a Swiss ball.
>>
>> I actually don't do half bad with what I have. I'm able to do my
>> biceps, triceps and stomach muscles. I do push ups and that as well.
>>
>> I'm just wondering if it's possible to get to 80 kgs with no protein
>> powder... there's just this guy that claims you can do that. He's
>> apparently reputable and has won awards in modeling competitions and
>> the like online.
>>
>> I'm interested in his programme, he seems trustworthy but I'm yet to
>> invest in his information. So yeah, any feedback about him would be
>> great.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Cheng.
>
> Forget his information and invest in some food!
>
> More than 30 years ago I read an article in MuscleMag International
> wherein the author recommended simply eating a variety of food. He
> stated that by simply eating and doing some light exercise (situps,
> pushups, deep knee bends, chins) the average teenager would put on
> some quality or lean muscle weight.
>
> You're 18. I bet you could gain ten pounds over the course of 3 to 6
> months simply by increasing the calories you're taking in.
>
> Best of luck.
>
> --

Yes. It isn't complicated.

Lift and consume more if you want to gain weight, lift and consume less
if you wish to lose weight. Lift = compound for preference, all the
nuances are kinda fluff.

Bob

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008, Andrzej Rosa wrote:

> Dnia 2008-06-12 Tom Anderson napisa?(a):
>> On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Steve Freides wrote:
>>
>>> Hypertrophy ain't my thing, but I don't think it's an old wives' tale, I
>>> think it works and people continue to practice it, not continuously, but
>>> a few cycles a year can help. No one suggested _not_ pressing or doing
>>> other movements, but everything I've read and discussed with people
>>> suggests that a squat belongs in most lifting programs designed to
>>> improve both size and strength.
>>
>> I'm not disputing that for an instant. The squat is the king of exercises.
>> I'd do 'em myself if the gym had weights big enough.
>>
>> It's the use of 20 reps, and the idea that it might have any significant
>> effect on the upper body, that i'm disputing.
>
> I think there is a context to all that somewhere, which we might be
> missing. At least that's what I tend to think nowadays. Let's take a
> typical gym goer, who lives off benches, curls and something "for back".
> If you make him squat hard, he will gain a lot of muscles, and fast.
> He will gain also some upper body muscles too, simply because now he
> uses real weights and his body needs to support them for quite some
> time, so it will grow what's needed.

'Some' is the operative word here.

> In this view of things 20 rep squats are just a way of insuring that
> someone is squatting really hard. You do them by first doing a set of
> 10 to "failure", taking some rest with bar still on your back and then
> doing another 10 somehow. One or two at the time, with some rest in
> between, but bar still on your back. So 20 rep squats are hard.
> Really hard. Strongmen do the to build their pain tolerance...

All well and good. But if the goal is to build strength or mass, 20 reps
is too many.

tom

--
That must be one of the best things you can possibly do with a piglet,
booze and a cannon. -- D

Dnia 2008-06-15 Tom Anderson napisa³(a):
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>
>> In this view of things 20 rep squats are just a way of insuring that
>> someone is squatting really hard. You do them by first doing a set of
>> 10 to "failure", taking some rest with bar still on your back and then
>> doing another 10 somehow. One or two at the time, with some rest in
>> between, but bar still on your back. So 20 rep squats are hard.
>> Really hard. Strongmen do the to build their pain tolerance...
>
> All well and good. But if the goal is to build strength or mass, 20 reps
> is too many.

It's not 20 reps. It's 10 reps plus whatever you can squeeze for however
long it takes until you get to 20. It's 10 rep set to failure plus 10
post failure reps. Don't confuse it with a "normal" set of 20.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008, Andrzej Rosa wrote:

> Dnia 2008-06-15 Tom Anderson napisa?(a):
>> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>
>>> In this view of things 20 rep squats are just a way of insuring that
>>> someone is squatting really hard. You do them by first doing a set of
>>> 10 to "failure", taking some rest with bar still on your back and then
>>> doing another 10 somehow. One or two at the time, with some rest in
>>> between, but bar still on your back. So 20 rep squats are hard.
>>> Really hard. Strongmen do the to build their pain tolerance...
>>
>> All well and good. But if the goal is to build strength or mass, 20 reps
>> is too many.
>
> It's not 20 reps. It's 10 reps plus whatever you can squeeze for
> however long it takes until you get to 20. It's 10 rep set to failure
> plus 10 post failure reps. Don't confuse it with a "normal" set of 20.

I'm not totally convinced about this.

tom

--
That must be one of the best things you can possibly do with a piglet,
booze and a cannon. -- D

Dnia 2008-06-15 Tom Anderson napisa³(a):
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>
>>> All well and good. But if the goal is to build strength or mass, 20 reps
>>> is too many.
>>
>> It's not 20 reps. It's 10 reps plus whatever you can squeeze for
>> however long it takes until you get to 20. It's 10 rep set to failure
>> plus 10 post failure reps. Don't confuse it with a "normal" set of 20.
>
> I'm not totally convinced about this.

So try it out. It can work with stiff legged deadlifts, front squats,
Bulgarian split squats, Zercher squats, stepups, Romanian deadlifts, maybe
even leg presses. In case of leg presses I advise training one leg at a
time and using the other for self-spotting, but I'm not sure if they will
recruit enough muscles to stress your body and mind the "right" way.
Variations of squats and DLs do. They drain you all over, not just tire
your legs. You use about 12RM for starters, then add a small amount each
week. You do it twice a week, while eating and sleeping well. After
about a month you need a week of R&R, but it will make you bigger and
stronger. It's not a miracle, just suicidal intensity which works at
least short term.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

"Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0806151659350.20984@urchin.eart h.li...
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>
>> Dnia 2008-06-15 Tom Anderson napisa?(a):
>>> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>
>>>> In this view of things 20 rep squats are just a way of insuring
>>>> that someone is squatting really hard. You do them by first doing
>>>> a set of 10 to "failure", taking some rest with bar still on your
>>>> back and then doing another 10 somehow. One or two at the time,
>>>> with some rest in between, but bar still on your back. So 20 rep
>>>> squats are hard. Really hard. Strongmen do the to build their pain
>>>> tolerance...
>>>
>>> All well and good. But if the goal is to build strength or mass, 20
>>> reps
>>> is too many.
>>
>> It's not 20 reps. It's 10 reps plus whatever you can squeeze for
>> however long it takes until you get to 20. It's 10 rep set to
>> failure plus 10 post failure reps. Don't confuse it with a "normal"
>> set of 20.
>
> I'm not totally convinced about this.

Don't be confused by whatever principles you think guide hypertrophy -
20 rep squats work for too many people to be dismissed. It is as
Andrzej says, it's not a normal set of 20 in any way, shape, or form.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

On Jun 15, 2:50*am, Curt <curtja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 11, 7:08 am, "Cheng." <jaykay21...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hey everyone,
>
> > My name's Cheng. I'm 18 and want to try bulking up. I'm currently 70
> > kgs (154 lbs) and wanna be 80 kgs (176 lbs).
>
> > I own 1 dumbell with a 5 kg set, 10 kg set, have a pole I found that
> > lets me do barbells and a Swiss ball.
>
> > I actually don't do half bad with what I have. I'm able to do my
> > biceps, triceps and stomach muscles. I do push ups and that as well.
>
> > I'm just wondering if it's possible to get to 80 kgs with no protein
> > powder... there's just this guy that claims you can do that. He's
> > apparently reputable and has won awards in modeling competitions and
> > the like online.
>
> > I'm interested in his programme, he seems trustworthy but I'm yet to
> > invest in his information. So yeah, any feedback about him would be
> > great.
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Cheng.
>
> Forget his information and invest in some food!
>
> More than 30 years ago I read an article in MuscleMag International
> wherein the author recommended simply eating a variety of food. He
> stated that by simply eating and doing some light exercise (situps,
> pushups, deep knee bends, chins) the average teenager would put on
> some quality or lean muscle weight.
>
> You're 18. I bet you could gain ten pounds over the course of 3 to 6
> months simply by increasing the calories you're taking in.
>
> Best of luck.
>
> --

I could too, especially if I confined myself to pie.

My rotator cuff self-therapy experiment is now complete. My left
shoulder is still not a happy camper so I'm going into an Ortho-sports
specialist for evaluation and treatment. Just in time to set up the
flexible spending account for the new FY in September.

Dnia 2008-06-16 The.Sargon@gmail.com napisa³(a):
>
> I could too, especially if I confined myself to pie.
>
> My rotator cuff self-therapy experiment is now complete. My left
> shoulder is still not a happy camper so I'm going into an Ortho-sports
> specialist for evaluation and treatment. Just in time to set up the
> flexible spending account for the new FY in September.

Out or curiousity, what did you do? I'm having problems with left
shoulder myself (though my therapy seems to work), and I'd be glad to
know what doesn't work. Mistakes are worth more than successes, if you
want to understand the issue.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Jun 16, 2:44*pm, Andrzej Rosa <bakt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dnia 2008-06-16 The.Sar...@gmail.com napisa³(a):
>
>
>
> > I could too, especially if I confined myself to pie.
>
> > My rotator cuff self-therapy experiment is now complete. *My left
> > shoulder is still not a happy camper so I'm going into an Ortho-sports
> > specialist for evaluation and treatment. *Just in time to set up the
> > flexible spending account for the new FY in September.
>
> Out or curiousity, what did you do? *I'm having problems with left
> shoulder myself (though my therapy seems to work), and I'd be glad to
> know what doesn't work. *Mistakes are worth more than successes, if you
> want to understand the issue.
>
> --
> Andrzej Rosa 1127R

I purchased "The 7-Minute Rotator Cuff Solution" and then did three
exercises: Lateral Raise, Lying Flyes and Anterior Raises. They
didn't make anything worse but the pain in the front of the left
shoulder is still noticeable to the extent that shrugging on a
backpack or a jacket *hurts*. Example: arm by my side, hanging down,
bring up the forearm as if to shake hands- exterior rotation, i.e.,
moving the forearm backward while keeping the upper arm parallel to
the body (pointed down) hurts past 45degrees. I'm right arm dominant
so it's a puzzler why the left is so jacked up.

Time for some professional evaluation (after on/off pain for 10+
years).

Dnia 2008-06-19 The.Sargon@gmail.com napisa³(a):
> On Jun 16, 2:44*pm, Andrzej Rosa <bakt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Dnia 2008-06-16 The.Sar...@gmail.com napisa³(a):
>>
>>
>>
>> > I could too, especially if I confined myself to pie.
>>
>> > My rotator cuff self-therapy experiment is now complete. *My left
>> > shoulder is still not a happy camper so I'm going into an Ortho-sports
>> > specialist for evaluation and treatment. *Just in time to set up the
>> > flexible spending account for the new FY in September.
>>
>> Out or curiousity, what did you do? *I'm having problems with left
>> shoulder myself (though my therapy seems to work), and I'd be glad to
>> know what doesn't work. *Mistakes are worth more than successes, if you
>> want to understand the issue.
>>
>> --
>> Andrzej Rosa 1127R
>
> I purchased "The 7-Minute Rotator Cuff Solution"

I never purchased it, but the gist of it is obvious enough to try
without a book. It didn't work for me too, neither for Curt, if I guess
correctly. You could have asked.

> and then did three
> exercises: Lateral Raise, Lying Flyes and Anterior Raises. They
> didn't make anything worse but the pain in the front of the left
> shoulder is still noticeable to the extent that shrugging on a
> backpack or a jacket *hurts*. Example: arm by my side, hanging down,
> bring up the forearm as if to shake hands- exterior rotation, i.e.,
> moving the forearm backward while keeping the upper arm parallel to
> the body (pointed down) hurts past 45degrees. I'm right arm dominant
> so it's a puzzler why the left is so jacked up.

I've problems also with non dominant side. I think, that weaker side is
less developed, so whatever exercise is causing muscular imbalances, it
makes more of a difference on your weaker side. Percentage wise,
whatever load your training puts on your dominant side, it must be
smaller than on non-dominant one.

> Time for some professional evaluation (after on/off pain for 10+
> years).

Go on. Keep as posted and I'll have a popcorn. ;-)

(IOW I'm skeptical that you'll find someone who really knows what's the
problem. Pretty much nobody really understands it, judging from what I
read. I can tell you what seems to work for me, but it will be lengthy,
so simply ask if you are interested.)

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Jun 19, 12:43*pm, Andrzej Rosa <bakt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dnia 2008-06-19 The.Sar...@gmail.com napisa³(a):
>
>
>
> > On Jun 16, 2:44*pm, Andrzej Rosa <bakt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Dnia 2008-06-16 The.Sar...@gmail.com napisa³(a):
>
> >> > I could too, especially if I confined myself to pie.
>
> >> > My rotator cuff self-therapy experiment is now complete. *My left
> >> > shoulder is still not a happy camper so I'm going into an Ortho-sports
> >> > specialist for evaluation and treatment. *Just in time to set up the
> >> > flexible spending account for the new FY in September.
>
> >> Out or curiousity, what did you do? *I'm having problems with left
> >> shoulder myself (though my therapy seems to work), and I'd be glad to
> >> know what doesn't work. *Mistakes are worth more than successes, if you
> >> want to understand the issue.
>
> >> --
> >> Andrzej Rosa 1127R
>
> > I purchased "The 7-Minute Rotator Cuff Solution"
>
> I never purchased it, but the gist of it is obvious enough to try
> without a book. *It didn't work for me too, neither for Curt, if I guess
> correctly. *You could have asked.
>
> > and then did three
> > exercises: Lateral Raise, Lying Flyes and Anterior Raises. *They
> > didn't make anything worse but the pain in the front of the left
> > shoulder is still noticeable to the extent that shrugging on a
> > backpack or a jacket *hurts*. *Example: arm by my side, hanging down,
> > bring up the forearm as if to shake hands- exterior rotation, i.e.,
> > moving the forearm backward while keeping the upper arm parallel to
> > the body (pointed down) hurts past 45degrees. *I'm right arm dominant
> > so it's a puzzler why the left is so jacked up.
>
> I've problems also with non dominant side. *I think, that weaker side is
> less developed, so whatever exercise is causing muscular imbalances, it
> makes more of a difference on your weaker side. * Percentage wise,
> whatever load your training puts on your dominant side, it must be
> smaller than on non-dominant one. *
>
> > Time for some professional evaluation (after on/off pain for 10+
> > years).
>
> Go on. *Keep as posted and I'll have a popcorn. ;-)
>
> (IOW I'm skeptical that you'll find someone who really knows what's the
> problem. *Pretty much nobody really understands it, judging from what I
> read. *I can tell you what seems to work for me, but it will be lengthy,
> so simply ask if you are interested.)
>
> --
> Andrzej Rosa 1127R

I tend to agree with the dom vs non-dom side; I peaked at 300lbs on
the flat bench 6 years ago (age 43) and that aggravated it *a lot*.

I have an appt with a Sports Med ortho pod here in the Tx Med Center
on Monday so I'll let you know how it goes.

What works for you? I've found that incline instead of flat bench
(and of course less weight) helps, but I do miss 'going heavy'.

Dnia 2008-06-19 The.Sargon@gmail.com napisa³(a):
[...]
>> Go on. *Keep as posted and I'll have a popcorn. ;-)
>>
>> (IOW I'm skeptical that you'll find someone who really knows what's the
>> problem. *Pretty much nobody really understands it, judging from what I
>> read. *I can tell you what seems to work for me, but it will be lengthy,
>> so simply ask if you are interested.)
>>
>> --
>> Andrzej Rosa 1127R
>
> I tend to agree with the dom vs non-dom side; I peaked at 300lbs on
> the flat bench 6 years ago (age 43) and that aggravated it *a lot*.
>
> I have an appt with a Sports Med ortho pod here in the Tx Med Center
> on Monday so I'll let you know how it goes.
>
> What works for you? I've found that incline instead of flat bench
> (and of course less weight) helps, but I do miss 'going heavy'.

First, I'm ready to throw away *any* exercise which causes me pain. I
mean any. No flat bench, no incline, no dips or even pushups. This
thing is rather crucial. I doubt you will be able to recover quickly
without doing something similar. Second, I'm ready to do what needs to
be done, that means I actively work on my mobility and muscular balance.
If it means doing lotsa foo-foo stuff with rubber bands, I do it. If it
means vastly increasing my range of motion in shoulders, I did it. I'm
still not done with them, as I suppose I need even better mobility to be
totally free of problems, but I'm able to catch snatches in an overhead
squat position now. Naturally my shoulders don't bend this way. My
"normal" mobility was much worse than average, so I made some progress
here.

When it comes to muscular balance I find that two things seem to be
important here. First is developing "big" muscles which bring your
humerus back, and also developing muscles which bring your scapula up
and down. It can be translated into a combination of rows, high pulls
and close grip pullups to the chest (or cleans, snatches and pullups in
my case). Beside that IMHO one needs to strengthen the rotator cuff
muscles themselves. I believe that one of the best way is to do heavy
supports or partial overhead presses, or walking with weight overhead or
some such antics. In my case relatively heavy one-armed lifting seems
to do the job sufficiently.

Now, I firmly believe that only a combination of all the above gives
good results. Singling out any may help in some cases, but not if the
issue is too far gone already. Otherwise you will probably need rest,
stability work and mobility work all together.

Anyway, that seems to do the trick for me. I hope you'll find something
effective for yourself too.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Jun 19, 2:55*pm, Andrzej Rosa <bakt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dnia 2008-06-19 The.Sar...@gmail.com napisa³(a):
> [...]
>
>
>
> >> Go on. *Keep as posted and I'll have a popcorn. ;-)
>
> >> (IOW I'm skeptical that you'll find someone who really knows what's the
> >> problem. *Pretty much nobody really understands it, judging from what I
> >> read. *I can tell you what seems to work for me, but it will be lengthy,
> >> so simply ask if you are interested.)
>
> >> --
> >> Andrzej Rosa 1127R
>
> > I tend to agree with the dom vs non-dom side; I peaked at 300lbs on
> > the flat bench 6 years ago (age 43) and that aggravated it *a lot*.
>
> > I have an appt with a Sports Med ortho pod here in the Tx Med Center
> > on Monday so I'll let you know how it goes.
>
> > What works for you? *I've found that incline instead of flat bench
> > (and of course less weight) helps, but I do miss 'going heavy'.
>
> First, I'm ready to throw away *any* exercise which causes me pain. *I
> mean any. *No flat bench, no incline, no dips or even pushups. *This
> thing is rather crucial. *I doubt you will be able to recover quickly
> without doing something similar. *Second, I'm ready to do what needs to
> be done, that means I actively work on my mobility and muscular balance.
> If it means doing lotsa foo-foo stuff with rubber bands, I do it. *If it
> means vastly increasing my range of motion in shoulders, I did it. *I'm
> still not done with them, as I suppose I need even better mobility to be
> totally free of problems, but I'm able to catch snatches in an overhead
> squat position now. *Naturally my shoulders don't bend this way. *My
> "normal" mobility was much worse than average, so I made some progress
> here.
>
> When it comes to muscular balance I find that two things seem to be
> important here. *First is developing "big" muscles which bring your
> humerus back, and also developing muscles which bring your scapula up
> and down. *It can be translated into a combination of rows, high pulls
> and close grip pullups to the chest (or cleans, snatches and pullups in
> my case). *Beside that IMHO one needs to strengthen the rotator cuff
> muscles themselves. *I believe that one of the best way is to do heavy
> supports or partial overhead presses, or walking with weight overhead or
> some such antics. *In my case relatively heavy one-armed lifting seems
> to do the job sufficiently.
>
> Now, I firmly believe that only a combination of all the above gives
> good results. *Singling out any may help in some cases, but not if the
> issue is too far gone already. *Otherwise you will probably need rest,
> stability work and mobility work all together.
>
> Anyway, that seems to do the trick for me. *I hope you'll find something
> effective for yourself too.
>
> --
> Andrzej Rosa 1127R

I was surprised to find that pushups hurt...but was more surprised to
find that even with a backing off from or a total dropping of all
exercises that caused pain my shoulder didn't want to "play ball" by
getting better. My primary purpose on Monday is to get an evaluation
of *what* is the source of the pain followed by what motions are
causing the pain and what can be done. I don't know at this point if
it's mechanical (bone spurs, arthritis, tendonitis/nosis) or if its
even (worse case) a tear. That shoulder bore the brunt of a
motorcycle accident that threw me literally for a loop in 1979 and
caused me to land on that shoulder and the left side of my head,
bounding/bouncing face down in a ditch afterward (full face Shoei
saved my head and my face)...so perhaps something wasn't quite right
after that. FWIW, an Xray in an Austin hospital showed no separation
but of course that doesn't show much soft tissue damage either.

I've had elbow tendonitis (both at the same time) in the past from
overuse (bicep curls w/too much weight too often) so I know what that
feels like and in many ways (the twinges, the feeling better after
loosening up followed by the stiffening and a return to pain) the
shoulder feels the same...but I want to KNOW.

You are correct; close grip is best. Everything I do is close
grip...wide grip hurts. Ironically my seated cable is 180-195 lbs
(168 lb BW) and my incline bench is a wimpy 135...and 6 years ago I
was flat benching 225 - 265 every other day. SIgh.

I'm resisting the 'give this stuff up' mode until I know what the
problem is but fear it may be the best path. "It hurts when I do
this" "So don't do this" in my mind this leads to the rocking chair
and a walker with tennis balls on the feet. :-) I'm only 49, dammit.

Dnia 2008-06-20 The.Sargon@gmail.com napisa³(a):
>
> I was surprised to find that pushups hurt...but was more surprised to
> find that even with a backing off from or a total dropping of all
> exercises that caused pain my shoulder didn't want to "play ball" by
> getting better.

Welcome to the club.

> My primary purpose on Monday is to get an evaluation
> of *what* is the source of the pain followed by what motions are
> causing the pain and what can be done. I don't know at this point if
> it's mechanical (bone spurs, arthritis, tendonitis/nosisu or if its
> even (worse case) a tear.

Actually it isn't a worse case. It would be a better one, because
muscles heal way faster than tendons.

> That shoulder bore the brunt of a
> motorcycle accident that threw me literally for a loop in 1979 and
> caused me to land on that shoulder and the left side of my head,

It's called a highside. Normally caused by using a rear brake. Did you
ride Honda at a time?

> bounding/bouncing face down in a ditch afterward (full face Shoei
> saved my head and my face)...so perhaps something wasn't quite right
> after that. FWIW, an Xray in an Austin hospital showed no separation
> but of course that doesn't show much soft tissue damage either.
>
> I've had elbow tendonitis (both at the same time) in the past from
> overuse (bicep curls w/too much weight too often) so I know what that
> feels like and in many ways (the twinges, the feeling better after
> loosening up followed by the stiffening and a return to pain) the
> shoulder feels the same...but I want to KNOW.

It seems that tendinitis is part of the problem, but it's not the whole
problem. At least in my case. Anyway, while recovering go for an itch.
Any pain is bad, simply resting will help, but long term it doesn't work
all that great either. The best is to provide just the right amount of
stimulation. You can tell how much is enough by this itching sensation
in your shoulder several hours after training. If you overdid it, there
can be a bit of pain, but next day or two there will come an itch, which
seems to signal the healing process going on.

> You are correct; close grip is best. Everything I do is close
> grip...wide grip hurts. Ironically my seated cable is 180-195 lbs
> (168 lb BW) and my incline bench is a wimpy 135...and 6 years ago I
> was flat benching 225 - 265 every other day. SIgh.
>
> I'm resisting the 'give this stuff up' mode until I know what the
> problem is but fear it may be the best path. "It hurts when I do
> this" "So don't do this" in my mind this leads to the rocking chair
> and a walker with tennis balls on the feet. :-) I'm only 49, dammit.

It's not that bad. It will take at least a year to fully recover, but
you should do an _active_ recovery. Do whatever you can do pain free
and you will recover faster. I renewed my shoulder injury in winter,
and this time I simply refused to give up. I tried various stuff, which
hurt, so I rested for a weak and tried something else. Most winter I
couldn't do pretty much anything (well, my shoulder wasn't the only
problem), but not giving up attitude helped in the long run. Now I'm
seeing the light at the end of a long tunnel. I'm gonna recover fully.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Jun 20, 7:52*am, Andrzej Rosa <bakt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dnia 2008-06-20 The.Sar...@gmail.com napisa³(a):
>
>
>
> > I was surprised to find that pushups hurt...but was more surprised to
> > find that even with a backing off from or a total dropping of all
> > exercises that caused pain my shoulder didn't want to "play ball" by
> > getting better. *
>
> Welcome to the club.
>
> > My primary purpose on Monday is to get an evaluation
> > of *what* is the source of the pain followed by what motions are
> > causing the pain and what can be done. *I don't know at this point if
> > it's mechanical (bone spurs, arthritis, tendonitis/nosisu or if its
> > even (worse case) a tear. *
>
> Actually it isn't a worse case. *It would be a better one, because
> muscles heal way faster than tendons. *
>
> > That shoulder bore the brunt of a
> > motorcycle accident that threw me literally for a loop in 1979 and
> > caused me to land on that shoulder and the left side of my head,
>
> It's called a highside. *Normally caused by using a rear brake. *Did you
> ride Honda at a time? *
>
> > bounding/bouncing face down in a ditch afterward (full face Shoei
> > saved my head and my face)...so perhaps something wasn't quite right
> > after that. *FWIW, an Xray in an Austin hospital showed no separation
> > but of course that doesn't show much soft tissue damage either.
>
> > I've had elbow tendonitis (both at the same time) in the past from
> > overuse (bicep curls w/too much weight too often) so I know what that
> > feels like and in many ways (the twinges, the feeling better after
> > loosening up followed by the stiffening and a return to pain) the
> > shoulder feels the same...but I want to KNOW.
>
> It seems that tendinitis is part of the problem, but it's not the whole
> problem. *At least in my case. *Anyway, while recovering go for an itch.
> Any pain is bad, simply resting will help, but long term it doesn't work
> all that great either. *The best is to provide just the right amount of
> stimulation. *You can tell how much is enough by this itching sensation
> in your shoulder several hours after training. *If you overdid it, there
> can be a bit of pain, but next day or two there will come an itch, which
> seems to signal the healing process going on. *
>
> > You are correct; close grip is best. *Everything I do is close
> > grip...wide grip hurts. *Ironically my seated cable is 180-195 lbs
> > (168 lb BW) and my incline bench is a wimpy 135...and 6 years ago I
> > was flat benching 225 - 265 every other day. *SIgh.
>
> > I'm resisting the 'give this stuff up' mode until I know what the
> > problem is but fear it may be the best path. *"It hurts when I do
> > this" *"So don't do this" in my mind this leads to the rocking chair
> > and a walker with tennis balls on the feet. *:-) *I'm only 49, dammit.
>
> It's not that bad. *It will take at least a year to fully recover, but
> you should do an _active_ recovery. *Do whatever you can do pain free
> and you will recover faster. *I renewed my shoulder injury in winter,
> and this time I simply refused to give up. *I tried various stuff, which
> hurt, so I rested for a weak and tried something else. *Most winter I
> couldn't do pretty much anything (well, my shoulder wasn't the only
> problem), but not giving up attitude helped in the long run. *Now I'm
> seeing the light at the end of a long tunnel. I'm gonna recover fully.
>
> --
> Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Cortisone shot. Xrays reveal no mechanical problems, no bone spurs,
no arthritis. Initial diagnosis is tendonosis with *possible* partial
thickness tear but without an MRI (or 'scope) its hard to say. I'll
start PT this Thursday.

I'm looking for a baseline analysis from my first PT session; what do
I have left vs right for strength, flexibility & ROM and what
exercises do I do to balance everything out. Then find out a
reasonable time frame to effect a 'cure' or return to previous
activities OR time frame to determine if further tests and/or 'scope
(surgery) is necessary.

I liked my Doc; sports med spclst with shoulder emphasis, and not in a
big rush to cut holes in me.

I did find that I suffer from the cortisone post-injection 'flare'
however and that was an interesting and new kind of pain.