been drinking raw milk for about 2 years now.. i buy it in the store

thoughts?

xyzer wrote:

> thoughts?

Yes. It's nowhere near as funny as toneatronic.

And it's in the news:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2...546653-cp.html

Pro:
American activist Sally Fallon, who came in from Washington, D.C., and
began with a raw-milk toast, criticized the idea that "this wonderful
food is swimming with pathogens."

"Raw milk is the best way to develop a good immune system in our
growing children," Fallon said, citing studies from the 1930s she said
show raw milk also builds stronger bones. "Milk is an amazing
substance."

Con:
Both Health Canada and the Ontario Ministry of Health have issued
cautions about the risks of drinking raw milk.

"Make no mistake about it - drinking unpasteurized milk is not good for
you," Ontario's health officials said in a statement Wednesday - a
warning that was heralded by the Dairy Farmers of Ontario.

Regardless, wishing you continued good health.

--
Curt

Some assert that it's the homogenization that's the problem, because it
allows *whole intact enzymes* to be transported into the bloodstream
protected by lipid micelles, and can then attack arterial lining. xanthine
oxidase.
Can't comment one way or the other, except to say it has plausibility.

Raw milk will indeed develop an immune system, and probaby requires an
acclimation.
Probably a much better way to go, in principle, just not practical when
feeding 300 million people.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1164858078.509427.3000@h54g2000cwb.googlegrou ps.com...
> xyzer wrote:
>
>> thoughts?
>
> Yes. It's nowhere near as funny as toneatronic.
>
> And it's in the news:
>
> http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2...546653-cp.html
>
> Pro:
> American activist Sally Fallon, who came in from Washington, D.C., and
> began with a raw-milk toast, criticized the idea that "this wonderful
> food is swimming with pathogens."
>
> "Raw milk is the best way to develop a good immune system in our
> growing children," Fallon said, citing studies from the 1930s she said
> show raw milk also builds stronger bones. "Milk is an amazing
> substance."
>
> Con:
> Both Health Canada and the Ontario Ministry of Health have issued
> cautions about the risks of drinking raw milk.
>
> "Make no mistake about it - drinking unpasteurized milk is not good for
> you," Ontario's health officials said in a statement Wednesday - a
> warning that was heralded by the Dairy Farmers of Ontario.
>
> Regardless, wishing you continued good health.
>
> --
> Curt
>
>

Yeah, I haven't been sick in years really...

I was thinking it would help development my immune system as well.


Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> Some assert that it's the homogenization that's the problem, because it
> allows *whole intact enzymes* to be transported into the bloodstream
> protected by lipid micelles, and can then attack arterial lining. xanthine
> oxidase.
> Can't comment one way or the other, except to say it has plausibility.
>
> Raw milk will indeed develop an immune system, and probaby requires an
> acclimation.
> Probably a much better way to go, in principle, just not practical when
> feeding 300 million people.
> --
> ------
> Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
>
> Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
> Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
> Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
> to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
> The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
>
> entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
> all d'numbuhs
>
> "Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1164858078.509427.3000@h54g2000cwb.googlegrou ps.com...
> > xyzer wrote:
> >
> >> thoughts?
> >
> > Yes. It's nowhere near as funny as toneatronic.
> >
> > And it's in the news:
> >
> > http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2...546653-cp.html
> >
> > Pro:
> > American activist Sally Fallon, who came in from Washington, D.C., and
> > began with a raw-milk toast, criticized the idea that "this wonderful
> > food is swimming with pathogens."
> >
> > "Raw milk is the best way to develop a good immune system in our
> > growing children," Fallon said, citing studies from the 1930s she said
> > show raw milk also builds stronger bones. "Milk is an amazing
> > substance."
> >
> > Con:
> > Both Health Canada and the Ontario Ministry of Health have issued
> > cautions about the risks of drinking raw milk.
> >
> > "Make no mistake about it - drinking unpasteurized milk is not good for
> > you," Ontario's health officials said in a statement Wednesday - a
> > warning that was heralded by the Dairy Farmers of Ontario.
> >
> > Regardless, wishing you continued good health.
> >
> > --
> > Curt
> >
> >

On 30 Nov 2006 04:10:17 -0800, xyzer@hotmail.com wrote:

>Yeah, I haven't been sick in years really...
>
>I was thinking it would help development my immune system as well.

Your health may depend on the cow the milk came from. If the cow is
sick in any way it can inadvertently be passed onto you. Raw mile
also lacks the Vitamin D supplement which may or may not bee needed.
It was added because most people don't get it in their natural diet.
On the other hand you can get it from sunlight.

I had a friend who owned a dairy farm and they drank it for years.

Shute wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2006 04:10:17 -0800, xyzer@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >Yeah, I haven't been sick in years really...
> >
> >I was thinking it would help development my immune system as well.
>
> Your health may depend on the cow the milk came from. If the cow is
> sick in any way it can inadvertently be passed onto you. Raw mile
> also lacks the Vitamin D supplement which may or may not bee needed.
> It was added because most people don't get it in their natural diet.
> On the other hand you can get it from sunlight.
>
> I had a friend who owned a dairy farm and they drank it for years.


yeah.. these cows seem pretty healthy from what i read abotu the farm,
but i realize one can enver know ...

they're jersey cows who eat grass all day

On 1 Dec 2006 15:36:47 -0800, xyzer@hotmail.com wrote:

>yeah.. these cows seem pretty healthy from what i read abotu the farm,
>but i realize one can enver know ...
>
>they're jersey cows who eat grass all day

Are you sure that is all they eat? My friends farm was in
Massachusetts. The younger cows ate grass and ran in the fields.
The older cows where mostly penned up. Both ate grain and corn. In
the winter there is no grass to eat.

The milk can contain bacteria and other things passed on by the cow.
I suppose it could depend on how sensitive you are to these things. I
know people say don't eat undercooked meat for the same reason. Yet
I have never been sick by it.

Dnia 2006-12-02 Shute napisa³(a):
> On 1 Dec 2006 15:36:47 -0800, xyzer@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>yeah.. these cows seem pretty healthy from what i read abotu the farm,
>>but i realize one can enver know ...
>>
>>they're jersey cows who eat grass all day
>
> Are you sure that is all they eat? My friends farm was in
> Massachusetts. The younger cows ate grass and ran in the fields.
> The older cows where mostly penned up. Both ate grain and corn. In
> the winter there is no grass to eat.
>
> The milk can contain bacteria and other things passed on by the cow.

Normal milk does contain all that, as it should. Normal milk curdles
when left outside the fridge for several hours. It's good. It should
be like that. Milk replacement whitish protein drink which passes for
milk in the western countries doesn't do that, because it can be barely
called a milk. Oh, it doesn't contain bacterias passed on by the cows,
so it can't curdle on it's own. Bad sign, in my book. While I stayed
in Germany I drunk butter-milk. It's low fat, contrary to the name,
and it tasted the same as what I remembered from Poland.

BTW - I had a friend in Berlin, who couldn't believe that a milk from
every cow tastes differently. He was a Ph.D, so no moron, but in this
case he firmly believed that I was pulling his leg.

> I suppose it could depend on how sensitive you are to these things. I
> know people say don't eat undercooked meat for the same reason. Yet
> I have never been sick by it.

You all people are right paranoid. That's what you are. ;-)

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 10:41:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
<bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Dnia 2006-12-02 Shute napisa³(a):
>> On 1 Dec 2006 15:36:47 -0800, xyzer@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>yeah.. these cows seem pretty healthy from what i read abotu the farm,
>>>but i realize one can enver know ...
>>>
>>>they're jersey cows who eat grass all day
>>
>> Are you sure that is all they eat? My friends farm was in
>> Massachusetts. The younger cows ate grass and ran in the fields.
>> The older cows where mostly penned up. Both ate grain and corn. In
>> the winter there is no grass to eat.
>>
>> The milk can contain bacteria and other things passed on by the cow.
>
>Normal milk does contain all that, as it should. Normal milk curdles
>when left outside the fridge for several hours. It's good. It should
>be like that. Milk replacement whitish protein drink which passes for
>milk in the western countries doesn't do that, because it can be barely
>called a milk. Oh, it doesn't contain bacterias passed on by the cows,
>so it can't curdle on it's own. Bad sign, in my book. While I stayed
>in Germany I drunk butter-milk. It's low fat, contrary to the name,
>and it tasted the same as what I remembered from Poland.
>
>BTW - I had a friend in Berlin, who couldn't believe that a milk from
>every cow tastes differently. He was a Ph.D, so no moron, but in this
>case he firmly believed that I was pulling his leg.
>
>> I suppose it could depend on how sensitive you are to these things. I
>> know people say don't eat undercooked meat for the same reason. Yet
>> I have never been sick by it.
>
>You all people are right paranoid. That's what you are. ;-)

In order to make it appear that you are bypassing "paranoid" people
(and those that offend some other vulnerable posters), you have
recently been advised to use the alleged "killfile" technique, which
effectively means that you can make out that you aren't responding to
certain people, because you can't see their posts.

This is the classic tactic of the Usenet "troll", who has given so
many people the shits that he can no longer cope with their
piss-taking responses, which expose him for the prick he really is.

However, have no doubt that this type of person needs desperately to
know what is going on, so although he still reads all input he feels
that as the result of his 'clever deception' he no longer morally
bound to respond.

The classic user of the alleged "killfile" technique is easily
recognised, as he always announces when he is committing his
antagonists to his alleged "bozo bin", and is always 'advising' others
to do the same.

Bully for them! <VBG>

Have a great weekend Andrzej - I am! ;o)

On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 10:41:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
<bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Normal milk does contain all that, as it should.

Define "normal milk". Normal in America is pasteurized and
homogenized coming from many cows. I was talking about raw milk.

>Normal milk curdles
>when left outside the fridge for several hours.

I wouldn't say that was good. I have been sick from "normal" milk
which was bad even though just purchased it.

> It's good. It should
>be like that. Milk replacement whitish protein drink which passes for
>milk in the western countries doesn't do that, because it can be barely
>called a milk.

Are you talking about powdered milk? People rarely drink that here.

>> I suppose it could depend on how sensitive you are to these things. I
>> know people say don't eat undercooked meat for the same reason. Yet
>> I have never been sick by it.
>
>You all people are right paranoid. That's what you are. ;-)

"You all people"? What are you talking about. I like my meat medium
rare. I often can't get it that way because of a commonly pushed
belief that raw meat makes a person sick. They even have signs up in
restaurants saying exactly that. Yet have taken raw hamburger, poured
salt on it, then ate. I have never been sick by meat. People get
sick because some kid at the burger joint dropped it on the floor and
then put it back on the grill. Because they didn't clean their
equipment. Or any number of other handling reasons.

Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> You all people are right paranoid. That's what you are. ;-)
>
> "You all people"? What are you talking about. I like my meat medium
> rare. I often can't get it that way because of a commonly pushed
> belief that raw meat makes a person sick. They even have signs up in
> restaurants saying exactly that. Yet have taken raw hamburger, poured
> salt on it, then ate. I have never been sick by meat.

But you may have some nasty worms...

Especially true for fish that spends some or all time in freshwater;
e.g. if somebody's been eating wild caught raw salmon that wasn't
deep-frozen, they're guaranteed to have some several feet long ones in
the gut.

Dnia 2006-12-02 Shute napisa³(a):
> On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 10:41:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Normal milk does contain all that, as it should.
>
> Define "normal milk".

You take a bucket, go to a cow, milk it, and what is in a bucket is
normal milk.

> Normal in America is pasteurized and
> homogenized coming from many cows. I was talking about raw milk.

Maybe you have a point here. What I had in mind was real milk,
which actually might be an exception. Anyway, that's what I
drink on a regular basis. :-)

BTW - the quality (I mean, taste) of milk which you buy in supermarket
isn't high, but what passed for milk in Germany was undrinkable. I
don't know about America.

>>Normal milk curdles
>>when left outside the fridge for several hours.
>
> I wouldn't say that was good. I have been sick from "normal" milk
> which was bad even though just purchased it.

It's good. Curdled real milk is also a very fine thing, indeed. But
if you remove proper bacterias from it, it can get spoiled instead of
curdling. Then it can be hazardous to eat. Curdled milk from the
stages of fresh curd to cheese is fine to eat.

>> It's good. It should
>>be like that. Milk replacement whitish protein drink which passes for
>>milk in the western countries doesn't do that, because it can be barely
>>called a milk.
>
> Are you talking about powdered milk? People rarely drink that here.

I'm not surprised.

>>> I suppose it could depend on how sensitive you are to these things. I
>>> know people say don't eat undercooked meat for the same reason. Yet
>>> I have never been sick by it.
>>
>>You all people are right paranoid. That's what you are. ;-)
>
> "You all people"? What are you talking about.

Probably a whole culture of people who would stuff themselves with
pills but are afraid of milk. I wasn't referring to you personally.

> I like my meat medium
> rare. I often can't get it that way because of a commonly pushed
> belief that raw meat makes a person sick. They even have signs up in
> restaurants saying exactly that.

They are right, actually. It happens from time to time, that there is
a bacterial infection and plenty of people got sick. So what?

> Yet have taken raw hamburger, poured
> salt on it, then ate.

We have a dish here, which consists of minced raw beef, egg yolk, a
bit of Polish "naturally" pickled cucumber and some spices. I love it.
Extremely dangerous thing, worse than some guns! But tastes great, all
the same.

> I have never been sick by meat. People get
> sick because some kid at the burger joint dropped it on the floor and
> then put it back on the grill. Because they didn't clean their
> equipment. Or any number of other handling reasons.

I agree. But DZ does have a point too.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 01:22:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
<bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Dnia 2006-12-02 Shute napisa?(a):
>> On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 10:41:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
>><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Normal milk does contain all that, as it should.
>>
>> Define "normal milk".
>
>You take a bucket, go to a cow, milk it, and what is in a bucket is
>normal milk.

That is what we call raw milk. That is what the OP was asking about.

>> Normal in America is pasteurized and
>> homogenized coming from many cows. I was talking about raw milk.
>
>Maybe you have a point here. What I had in mind was real milk,
>which actually might be an exception. Anyway, that's what I
>drink on a regular basis. :-)

I have yet to see it for sale in America. It may be around but just
hard to find.

>BTW - the quality (I mean, taste) of milk which you buy in supermarket
>isn't high, but what passed for milk in Germany was undrinkable. I
>don't know about America.

The milk tastes good. It just doesn't taste anything like raw milk.
Most people have been drinking it since children so they don't know
any better. Although the majority of children when I was growing up
preferred chocolate milk to hide the taste.

On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 18:06:11 +0000 (UTC), DZ
<23358@2439016162.278322733.22401.1803.2633> wrote:

>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> You all people are right paranoid. That's what you are. ;-)
>>
>> "You all people"? What are you talking about. I like my meat medium
>> rare. I often can't get it that way because of a commonly pushed
>> belief that raw meat makes a person sick. They even have signs up in
>> restaurants saying exactly that. Yet have taken raw hamburger, poured
>> salt on it, then ate. I have never been sick by meat.
>
>But you may have some nasty worms...
>
>Especially true for fish that spends some or all time in freshwater;
>e.g. if somebody's been eating wild caught raw salmon that wasn't
>deep-frozen, they're guaranteed to have some several feet long ones in
>the gut.

I am not a big fan of raw fish. I have eaten plenty of game and fish
caught in the wild over the years. My dad just gave me a whole
freezer full. I don't consider wild caught foods any more dangerous
than processed food. Both can make you sick.

Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 01:22:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Dnia 2006-12-02 Shute napisa?(a):
>>> On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 10:41:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
>>><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Normal milk does contain all that, as it should.
>>>
>>> Define "normal milk".
>>
>>You take a bucket, go to a cow, milk it, and what is in a bucket is
>>normal milk.
>
>That is what we call raw milk. That is what the OP was asking about.
>
>>> Normal in America is pasteurized and
>>> homogenized coming from many cows. I was talking about raw milk.
>>
>>Maybe you have a point here. What I had in mind was real milk,
>>which actually might be an exception. Anyway, that's what I
>>drink on a regular basis. :-)
>
>I have yet to see it for sale in America. It may be around but just
>hard to find.

*Very* hard to find. It requires special licensure in some states;
other states just ban it.

http://www.realmilk.com/where4.html

On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 09:08:04 -0500, JMW
<jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:

>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 01:22:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
>><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Dnia 2006-12-02 Shute napisa?(a):
>>>> On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 10:41:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
>>>><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Normal milk does contain all that, as it should.
>>>>
>>>> Define "normal milk".
>>>
>>>You take a bucket, go to a cow, milk it, and what is in a bucket is
>>>normal milk.
>>
>>That is what we call raw milk. That is what the OP was asking about.
>>
>>>> Normal in America is pasteurized and
>>>> homogenized coming from many cows. I was talking about raw milk.
>>>
>>>Maybe you have a point here. What I had in mind was real milk,
>>>which actually might be an exception. Anyway, that's what I
>>>drink on a regular basis. :-)
>>
>>I have yet to see it for sale in America. It may be around but just
>>hard to find.
>
>*Very* hard to find. It requires special licensure in some states;
>other states just ban it.
>
>http://www.realmilk.com/where4.html

Thanks John. I knew it was frowned upon but I didn't know if
attitudes had changed over the years. The message at the top about
farmers not wanting to be listed shows negative attitudes still
exists. Looks like I would have to get it straight from the farm
around here.

xyzer@hotmail.com wrote:
> thoughts?

1) Why?
2) Why?
3) Are you a baby cow?

No, but I am a human scavenger. I am opportunistic. This is part of
our evolution.


ephedralover@hotmail.com wrote:
> xyzer@hotmail.com wrote:
> > thoughts?
>
> 1) Why?
> 2) Why?
> 3) Are you a baby cow?

xyzer@hotmail.com wrote:
> No, but I am a human scavenger. I am opportunistic. This is part of
> our evolution.
>
>
> ephedralover@hotmail.com wrote:
> > xyzer@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > thoughts?
> >
> > 1) Why?
> > 2) Why?
> > 3) Are you a baby cow?

Well I can't argue with that.

"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:qblvm2tifp19ojatbie3uagrora9l2fklj@4ax.com...
> On 30 Nov 2006 04:10:17 -0800, xyzer@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Raw mile
> also lacks the Vitamin D supplement which may or may not bee needed.
> It was added because most people don't get it in their natural diet.

I think that the vitamin D is there because the calcium in milk cannot be
processed without it. If that is the case, then raw milk would be no good
on its own

Tom