Best time to eat before workout ?

"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:46233bee$1$69549$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> schreef:
>
> >> If you work out in the evening, i wouldnt worry about it at all. For
> >> years i trained around 7-9pm, and i noticed the body had enough
nutriunts
> >> from eating throughout the day, with the last meal usually at 3pm.
>
> >> There is nothing worse than training with food in your stomach.
>
> > I agree 100%. Even worse is to try to do a heavy leg workout with food
in
> > your stomach! :-)
>
> I threw up once when that happened. I ate 3 hours before the workout, but
i
> ate a HUGE pile of big fries drowned in mayonaisse. Fucking stupid.


> I also threw up oranges once after squats. Anything fat or highly acidic
> before traing is just plain stupid. These days, i consume a milder,
sweeter
> fruit juice.
> > If you train hard, you will puke. Most people just don't
> > train hard. That is why they over train too. I know that sound like an
> > oxymoron, but if you train really hard, you can't over train. You will
be
> > too fucking tired. While I have never been an advocate of HIT training,
> > their ideas about intensity make sense. You just can't get the volume
you
> > need with one or two sets. Bodybuilding NEEDS the pump and it needs
heavy
> > weights, so there has to be a happy medium between the high volume
school
> > and the HIT school.
>
> That pretty much describes the way i train. But i do stay awat from
foreced
> reps. I never liked them. Sometimes i do partials on the isolation stuff.
> Freaky pumps.
>
>
> > I ate a small meal about 2.5 hours before I did legs
> > today and it worked out perfectly. I also train on an empty stomach a
good
> > deal too.
>
> I have a lot more energy on an empty stomach. Big piles of pasta make me
> lazy. If i eat a huge meal, i wait at least 3-4 hours.
>
> --
> Pete
>
>

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:TnHUh.144462$g24.45731@newsfe12.phx...
>
> "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
> news:46233bee$1$69549$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> > "Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> schreef:
> >
> > >> If you work out in the evening, i wouldnt worry about it at all. For
> > >> years i trained around 7-9pm, and i noticed the body had enough
> nutriunts
> > >> from eating throughout the day, with the last meal usually at 3pm.
> >
> > >> There is nothing worse than training with food in your stomach.
> >
> > > I agree 100%. Even worse is to try to do a heavy leg workout with food
> in
> > > your stomach! :-)
> >
> > I threw up once when that happened. I ate 3 hours before the workout,
but
> i
> > ate a HUGE pile of big fries drowned in mayonaisse. Fucking stupid.

OMG! aaahhh... i'm gonna puke..

Richard <puking>


> > I also threw up oranges once after squats. Anything fat or highly acidic
> > before traing is just plain stupid. These days, i consume a milder,
> sweeter
> > fruit juice.
> > > If you train hard, you will puke. Most people just don't
> > > train hard. That is why they over train too. I know that sound like an
> > > oxymoron, but if you train really hard, you can't over train. You will
> be
> > > too fucking tired. While I have never been an advocate of HIT
training,
> > > their ideas about intensity make sense. You just can't get the volume
> you
> > > need with one or two sets. Bodybuilding NEEDS the pump and it needs
> heavy
> > > weights, so there has to be a happy medium between the high volume
> school
> > > and the HIT school.
> >
> > That pretty much describes the way i train. But i do stay awat from
> foreced
> > reps. I never liked them. Sometimes i do partials on the isolation
stuff.
> > Freaky pumps.
> >
> >
> > > I ate a small meal about 2.5 hours before I did legs
> > > today and it worked out perfectly. I also train on an empty stomach a
> good
> > > deal too.
> >
> > I have a lot more energy on an empty stomach. Big piles of pasta make me
> > lazy. If i eat a huge meal, i wait at least 3-4 hours.
> >
> > --
> > Pete
> >
> >
>
>

"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:462333d1$0$83482$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
>
> > My goal is to gain 40lb and loose 5% more fat. I'm 32 years old. I'm
> > getting
> > more than a therapeutic dose of T twice per week now...
>
> 200mg, right?
>
> Thats twice the "normal" therapeutic dose.
>
> > Everyone I do business with has noticed and made remarks.
>
> Which is good. Doing business while looking muscular is a goodthing.
People
> will trust you easier.
>
> > People think I have gained muscle weight but really I have
> > just lost fat and gained most of that weight back in muscle (or water?).
> > I'm
> > 11.3% bf now. That's down from 22% a couple years ago. I'm 5' 10". While
> > I'm
> > not in my teens.. I'm hoping to gain 40 pounds of muscle over the next
10
> > years. Is that insane?
>
> Not if you ask me.
>
> You will gain some weight fast in the months to come. Then it levels out a
> bit.
>
> The first 25 pounds are a walk in the park. The last 15 will be more
> difficult.
> But 40 pounds is a realistic goal. I gained 60 pounds in 18 months. I went
> from 210 to 190 and worked my way up to 250. First 35-40 pounds were
> natural, last 20-25 with the help of testosterone.

Pete - tell again, I forgot... what was your bodyfat at the end of the 18
months before you did any cutting and whatnot? or just a guess if you didn't
measure then.

Richard


> And 5000 Kcals/day. I was 28-30. Best shape in my life. Ever. FWIW, no
supps
> at all. Lotsa milk, fruit juice, bananas and eggs. And pasta. I took a
> generic multi vit/min, though. Just in case.
>
> --
> Pete
>
>

Pete wrote:
[...]

> My cholesterol levels were low
> even on 12 eggs a day. <snip>

The Rocky movie came out in 1976 and I was one of the kids who could
be found gulping down tall glasses of raw eggs like the fictional
boxer. I grew up on scrapple and other high fat foods but my blast
furnace metabolism and whatever else goes on inside my skin has always
kept my cholesterol level closer to one hundred than not.

Is it luck of the draw, or what?

I'm certain there are those who smoke three packs a day and live to
age 90 without a cough.

Not to say it's wise to eat two dozen eggs daily or smoke at all, but
it does make me wonder.

--
Curt

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:

> Pete - tell again, I forgot... what was your bodyfat at the end of the 18
> months before you did any cutting and whatnot? or just a guess if you
> didn't
> measure then.

I didnt gain that much fat. I retained water that i lost quickly. I switched
to something that didnt aromatize after i took test. I think that the 10
pounds i lost the months after, were 3-4 pounds of fat and 6-7 pounds of
water.

--
Pete

"Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:

>> 200mg, right?

>> Thats twice the "normal" therapeutic dose.

> My latest and greatest doctor has me on 550mg per week. That's two
> injections.

Sounds more like an AS project instead of HRT.

Are you sure they didnt inject you 100mg twice? And how did you get the 550
as a total?

550 from a doctor is unheard of. It will give you 5 times the "normal"
levels.

>> > People think I have gained muscle weight but really I have
>> > just lost fat and gained most of that weight back in muscle (or
>> > water?).
>> > I'm
>> > 11.3% bf now. That's down from 22% a couple years ago. I'm 5' 10".
>> > While
>> > I'm
>> > not in my teens.. I'm hoping to gain 40 pounds of muscle over the next
> 10
>> > years. Is that insane?

>> Not if you ask me.

> Well that's GOOD news

Most people assume they cant, but 40 pounds is very realistic.

>> You will gain some weight fast in the months to come. Then it levels out
>> a
>> bit.

> OK

And i was thinking about 200. With 550, you can gain 40 pounds in 4 months.
No kidding.

>> The first 25 pounds are a walk in the park. The last 15 will be more
>> difficult.
>> But 40 pounds is a realistic goal. I gained 60 pounds in 18 months. I
>> went
>> from 210 to 190 and worked my way up to 250. First 35-40 pounds were
>> natural, last 20-25 with the help of testosterone.

> Yes.. yes, but how old were you then?

Started training again at 28. Reached my peak at 30.

>> And 5000 Kcals/day. I was 28-30.

> OH. Well that's interesting! And 5k Kcals. holy sh*t!

I weas mixing bananas with eggs. About 12 eggs with 6 bananas divided in 2.
With 2 liters whole milk and one liter fruit juice. Thats almost 2K from
drinking. 6 slices of bread in the afternoon and a kilo of pasta or rice at
night. I didnt eat meat then. Due to financial reasons, AND the fact that i
dont cook. Just eggs and milk. Then i tapered the food down to 4000 Kcals.
Retained my weight at 240 for several years.

If you go "semi-liquid", 5000Kcals are really not that difficult. You feel a
lot stronger and better too.

--
Pete

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:

>> My cholesterol levels were low
>> even on 12 eggs a day. <snip>

> The Rocky movie came out in 1976 and I was one of the kids who could
> be found gulping down tall glasses of raw eggs like the fictional
> boxer. I grew up on scrapple and other high fat foods but my blast
> furnace metabolism and whatever else goes on inside my skin has always
> kept my cholesterol level closer to one hundred than not.

> Is it luck of the draw, or what?

I think it is.

Several doctors i spoke claim that high cholesterol and cholesterol
consumption are not related.
Its possible that you get away with tons of it, while others have problems
with miniscule amounts.

And perhaps estrogens have something to do with it, but thats just a guess.

> I'm certain there are those who smoke three packs a day and live to
> age 90 without a cough.

There always are.

> Not to say it's wise to eat two dozen eggs daily or smoke at all, but
> it does make me wonder.

I dont think its a good idea to eat so much several decades.

But several eggs a day, instead of several a week, might be very healthy.

--
Pete

Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:s0GUh.184710$p17.148781@newsfe11.phx...
>
> "Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote in message
> news:LCFUh.177228$907.142105@newsfe13.phx...
>> Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote in message
>> news:ERAUh.166041$Ko5.118706@newsfe08.phx...
>> > "Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote in message
>> > news:QLwUh.175308$907.117125@newsfe13.phx...
>> >> Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
>> >> news:4621da01$0$7182$dbd4f001@news.wanadoo.nl...
>> >> > "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Before and after?
>> >> >
>> >> >> Not sure what others do but I eat a bowl of oatmeal or rice 30
> minutes
>> >> >> before.
>> >> >
>> >> > You dont feel bloated when you work out?
>> >> >
>> >> >> I drink protein and lots of carbs during the workout. After the
>> >> >> workout I have a swig of grape juice. 30 minutes later I eat
> something
>> >> >> like
>> >> >> steak & eggs. Then I drink protein and carbs for 3 hours.
>> >> >
>> >> > IMO, you better reverse that. Take the liquid stuff before and after
>> >> > training. Switch to more solids the remaining day.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Then I drink
>> >> >> time-release protein and go to sleep (bed time). Seems to work best
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> me.
>> >> >> ymmv and I'm not sure if this is correct. its just what I do.
>> >> >
>> >> > The best time released protein, IMO, is 400 grams of steak. For
> several
>> >> > years, i ate that 5 times a week around 9pm.
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Pete
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Pete,
>> >> We both know that you are FAR better off eating real food for your
>> >> protein
>> >> intake than all of these supplements. I know that when I keep my
>> >> intake
>> >> of
>> >> red meat up, I always get better gains. I am also the first one to
> forget
>> > to
>> >> eat more red meat as it so much easier for me to eat chicken and
> turkey.
>> >> I
>> >> do eat at least a dozen eggs/day. I only eat about 3 yolks, but eggs
> are
>> >> also super easy to use and cheap.
>> >
>> > I've been eating mostly chicken because its easy to digest. at one
>> > point
> I
>> > was eating 2 or 3 chickens daily and gains were good. But are you and
> Pete
>> > suggesting that red meat might be better for gains?
>> >
>>
>> >
>> To be honest, I don't really know what you are trying to do. How old are
>> you? If you are close to my age, trying to get really big is not
>> something
>> that you are going to do. It sounds like you are wanting to do something
>> that is physiologically impossible at your age. Your best bet is to get
> into
>> the best shape that you can. I am talking about getting lean and better
>> cardio shape. EVERYONE I that I have come across in the past who claims
> that
>> they are "holding water" are fat. I would get a good test of your body
>> fat
> %
>> and then go from there. For the last 8 weeks I have been riding the edge
> of
>> getting more lean and gaining muscle. Seeing that I have had FAR more
> muscle
>> than I have now, I have a big advantage over 99.99% of the people out
> there.
>> I can stay on the low end caloric wise and still gain muscle while losing
>> fat. Recently I have gone into a stage where I was starting to lose more
>> than I wanted, so I had to increase my caloric intake. I did this mainly
>> with more protein. You may be at a stage for a real gut check. You HAVE
>> to
>> be honest with yourself and your goals. For you to really get the gains
> that
>> you want, you HAVE to get far leaner than you may think you are. Shit, I
>> have been at this since 1975 or so and even I have been shocked at how
> much
>> fat I have lost. I was wearing 30" jeans and thinking I was pretty close.
> I
>> am now wearing 28" jeans and getting leaner. Even if you can't be 100%
> frank
>> about your own body fat %, you need to find someone who can be 100%
>> objective.
>
> My goal is to gain 40lb and loose 5% more fat. I'm 32 years old. I'm
> getting
> more than a therapeutic dose of T twice per week now, getting enough
> protein.. working out 6 days per week (when my body cooperates). I have a
> lot of health issues that are getting better as I go along. I'm a 30" in
> jeans.. that's down from a 35" in in jeans last year. I'm fat but I've
> only
> been at it for a couple years. Only been working out heavy for one year
> really. While I'm losing fat (getting an underwater weigh-in once per
> month), I'm still gaining weight. Everyone I do business with has noticed
> and made remarks. People think I have gained muscle weight but really I
> have
> just lost fat and gained most of that weight back in muscle (or water?).
> I'm
> 11.3% bf now. That's down from 22% a couple years ago. I'm 5' 10". While
> I'm
> not in my teens.. I'm hoping to gain 40 pounds of muscle over the next 10
> years. Is that insane?
>
> Richard
>

That is not insane at all. I would strongly suggest that you get as lean as
possible first. I would even approach it like you are going to do a contest,
but not actually compete. Everyone needs to really see what they look like
when they get rid of their fat. EVERYONE loses more than they think they
will. I would not even get near a scale for the next 8-10 weeks and do
everything with the mirror and your clothes. Another big advantage to this
is that the body just loves to go into an anabolic mode after a long period
of caloric restriction. Many guys used to like to take time off after a
contest, but it is the best time to grow. That way you can be 100% that what
you are gaining is muscle and not fat. I am not saying that you need to stay
in contest shape, but everyone that I know has found that it is far easier
to gain if you keep within sight of your contest weight. May I ask what the
health issues are that you have? What are you weighing right now? Drop me an
e mail at rob at hardbopdrumsdotcom.



--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:46234cdc$0$80345$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
>
>>> 200mg, right?
>
>>> Thats twice the "normal" therapeutic dose.
>
>> My latest and greatest doctor has me on 550mg per week. That's two
>> injections.
>
> Sounds more like an AS project instead of HRT.
>
> Are you sure they didnt inject you 100mg twice? And how did you get the
> 550 as a total?
>
> 550 from a doctor is unheard of. It will give you 5 times the "normal"
> levels.
>

That is an odd total. Normal Test is 200 mg/cc, so that works out to 2.75
cc.



--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/







>>> > People think I have gained muscle weight but really I have
>>> > just lost fat and gained most of that weight back in muscle (or
>>> > water?).
>>> > I'm
>>> > 11.3% bf now. That's down from 22% a couple years ago. I'm 5' 10".
>>> > While
>>> > I'm
>>> > not in my teens.. I'm hoping to gain 40 pounds of muscle over the next
>> 10
>>> > years. Is that insane?
>
>>> Not if you ask me.
>
>> Well that's GOOD news
>
> Most people assume they cant, but 40 pounds is very realistic.
>
>>> You will gain some weight fast in the months to come. Then it levels out
>>> a
>>> bit.
>
>> OK
>
> And i was thinking about 200. With 550, you can gain 40 pounds in 4
> months. No kidding.
>
> >> The first 25 pounds are a walk in the park. The last 15 will be more
>>> difficult.
>>> But 40 pounds is a realistic goal. I gained 60 pounds in 18 months. I
>>> went
>>> from 210 to 190 and worked my way up to 250. First 35-40 pounds were
>>> natural, last 20-25 with the help of testosterone.
>
>> Yes.. yes, but how old were you then?
>
> Started training again at 28. Reached my peak at 30.
>
>>> And 5000 Kcals/day. I was 28-30.
>
>> OH. Well that's interesting! And 5k Kcals. holy sh*t!
>
> I weas mixing bananas with eggs. About 12 eggs with 6 bananas divided in
> 2. With 2 liters whole milk and one liter fruit juice. Thats almost 2K
> from drinking. 6 slices of bread in the afternoon and a kilo of pasta or
> rice at night. I didnt eat meat then. Due to financial reasons, AND the
> fact that i dont cook. Just eggs and milk. Then i tapered the food down
> to 4000 Kcals. Retained my weight at 240 for several years.
>
> If you go "semi-liquid", 5000Kcals are really not that difficult. You feel
> a lot stronger and better too.
>
> --
> Pete
>

Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:46233bee$0$69549$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> schreef:
>
>>> Speaking of chicken and silly, I had some ostrich the other day. Big
>>> chicken!
>
>> What was that like? There is a HUGE Ostrich farm between Phoenix and
>> Tucson and I wanted to at least try some of the eggs. I know that Ostrich
>> Oil has many positive qualities and that the meat is red, but VERY lean.
>> I am really curious as to how it tastes and it's texture.
>
> The two of you ever eaten Crocodile? Its great!
>
> Nice, tasty white meat. A LOT better than chicken.


I tried Alligator tail once, but it is not a staple here in the US. :-)

>
> Maybe i will have this fall. My brother in law shoots the fuckers and
> slices them up. Last time i was there he hitted one in the head with a 16
> gauge. He wasnt very big ;-(
>
> The tail is all muscle and no fat. Iguana and turle eggs are also good
> protein sources.
>
> --
> Pete
>

I'll leave those eggs to you! :-)



--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

"Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote in message
news:z%PUh.184910$JN6.103229@newsfe17.phx...
> Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
> news:46234cdc$0$80345$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> > "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
> >
> >>> 200mg, right?
> >
> >>> Thats twice the "normal" therapeutic dose.
> >
> >> My latest and greatest doctor has me on 550mg per week. That's two
> >> injections.
> >
> > Sounds more like an AS project instead of HRT.
> >
> > Are you sure they didnt inject you 100mg twice? And how did you get the
> > 550 as a total?
> >
> > 550 from a doctor is unheard of. It will give you 5 times the "normal"
> > levels.
> >
>
> That is an odd total. Normal Test is 200 mg/cc, so that works out to 2.75
> cc.


Right. Its almost 1.5ml per injection.




>
>
> --
> Robert Schuh
> "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
> intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
> the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
> the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
> - Nietzsche
>
> http://www.hardbopdrums.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> > People think I have gained muscle weight but really I have
> >>> > just lost fat and gained most of that weight back in muscle (or
> >>> > water?).
> >>> > I'm
> >>> > 11.3% bf now. That's down from 22% a couple years ago. I'm 5' 10".
> >>> > While
> >>> > I'm
> >>> > not in my teens.. I'm hoping to gain 40 pounds of muscle over the
next
> >> 10
> >>> > years. Is that insane?
> >
> >>> Not if you ask me.
> >
> >> Well that's GOOD news
> >
> > Most people assume they cant, but 40 pounds is very realistic.
> >
> >>> You will gain some weight fast in the months to come. Then it levels
out
> >>> a
> >>> bit.
> >
> >> OK
> >
> > And i was thinking about 200. With 550, you can gain 40 pounds in 4
> > months. No kidding.
> >
> > >> The first 25 pounds are a walk in the park. The last 15 will be more
> >>> difficult.
> >>> But 40 pounds is a realistic goal. I gained 60 pounds in 18 months. I
> >>> went
> >>> from 210 to 190 and worked my way up to 250. First 35-40 pounds were
> >>> natural, last 20-25 with the help of testosterone.
> >
> >> Yes.. yes, but how old were you then?
> >
> > Started training again at 28. Reached my peak at 30.
> >
> >>> And 5000 Kcals/day. I was 28-30.
> >
> >> OH. Well that's interesting! And 5k Kcals. holy sh*t!
> >
> > I weas mixing bananas with eggs. About 12 eggs with 6 bananas divided in
> > 2. With 2 liters whole milk and one liter fruit juice. Thats almost 2K
> > from drinking. 6 slices of bread in the afternoon and a kilo of pasta or
> > rice at night. I didnt eat meat then. Due to financial reasons, AND the
> > fact that i dont cook. Just eggs and milk. Then i tapered the food down
> > to 4000 Kcals. Retained my weight at 240 for several years.
> >
> > If you go "semi-liquid", 5000Kcals are really not that difficult. You
feel
> > a lot stronger and better too.
> >
> > --
> > Pete
> >
>
>
>

"Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote in message
news:BYPUh.184897$JN6.139121@newsfe17.phx...
> Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> news:s0GUh.184710$p17.148781@newsfe11.phx...
> >
> > "Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote in message
> > news:LCFUh.177228$907.142105@newsfe13.phx...
> >> Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> >> news:ERAUh.166041$Ko5.118706@newsfe08.phx...
> >> > "Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:QLwUh.175308$907.117125@newsfe13.phx...
> >> >> Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
> >> >> news:4621da01$0$7182$dbd4f001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> >> >> > "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Before and after?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Not sure what others do but I eat a bowl of oatmeal or rice 30
> > minutes
> >> >> >> before.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You dont feel bloated when you work out?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I drink protein and lots of carbs during the workout. After the
> >> >> >> workout I have a swig of grape juice. 30 minutes later I eat
> > something
> >> >> >> like
> >> >> >> steak & eggs. Then I drink protein and carbs for 3 hours.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > IMO, you better reverse that. Take the liquid stuff before and
after
> >> >> > training. Switch to more solids the remaining day.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Then I drink
> >> >> >> time-release protein and go to sleep (bed time). Seems to work
best
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> me.
> >> >> >> ymmv and I'm not sure if this is correct. its just what I do.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The best time released protein, IMO, is 400 grams of steak. For
> > several
> >> >> > years, i ate that 5 times a week around 9pm.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Pete
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Pete,
> >> >> We both know that you are FAR better off eating real food for your
> >> >> protein
> >> >> intake than all of these supplements. I know that when I keep my
> >> >> intake
> >> >> of
> >> >> red meat up, I always get better gains. I am also the first one to
> > forget
> >> > to
> >> >> eat more red meat as it so much easier for me to eat chicken and
> > turkey.
> >> >> I
> >> >> do eat at least a dozen eggs/day. I only eat about 3 yolks, but eggs
> > are
> >> >> also super easy to use and cheap.
> >> >
> >> > I've been eating mostly chicken because its easy to digest. at one
> >> > point
> > I
> >> > was eating 2 or 3 chickens daily and gains were good. But are you and
> > Pete
> >> > suggesting that red meat might be better for gains?
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> To be honest, I don't really know what you are trying to do. How old
are
> >> you? If you are close to my age, trying to get really big is not
> >> something
> >> that you are going to do. It sounds like you are wanting to do
something
> >> that is physiologically impossible at your age. Your best bet is to get
> > into
> >> the best shape that you can. I am talking about getting lean and better
> >> cardio shape. EVERYONE I that I have come across in the past who claims
> > that
> >> they are "holding water" are fat. I would get a good test of your body
> >> fat
> > %
> >> and then go from there. For the last 8 weeks I have been riding the
edge
> > of
> >> getting more lean and gaining muscle. Seeing that I have had FAR more
> > muscle
> >> than I have now, I have a big advantage over 99.99% of the people out
> > there.
> >> I can stay on the low end caloric wise and still gain muscle while
losing
> >> fat. Recently I have gone into a stage where I was starting to lose
more
> >> than I wanted, so I had to increase my caloric intake. I did this
mainly
> >> with more protein. You may be at a stage for a real gut check. You HAVE
> >> to
> >> be honest with yourself and your goals. For you to really get the gains
> > that
> >> you want, you HAVE to get far leaner than you may think you are. Shit,
I
> >> have been at this since 1975 or so and even I have been shocked at how
> > much
> >> fat I have lost. I was wearing 30" jeans and thinking I was pretty
close.
> > I
> >> am now wearing 28" jeans and getting leaner. Even if you can't be 100%
> > frank
> >> about your own body fat %, you need to find someone who can be 100%
> >> objective.
> >
> > My goal is to gain 40lb and loose 5% more fat. I'm 32 years old. I'm
> > getting
> > more than a therapeutic dose of T twice per week now, getting enough
> > protein.. working out 6 days per week (when my body cooperates). I have
a
> > lot of health issues that are getting better as I go along. I'm a 30" in
> > jeans.. that's down from a 35" in in jeans last year. I'm fat but I've
> > only
> > been at it for a couple years. Only been working out heavy for one year
> > really. While I'm losing fat (getting an underwater weigh-in once per
> > month), I'm still gaining weight. Everyone I do business with has
noticed
> > and made remarks. People think I have gained muscle weight but really I
> > have
> > just lost fat and gained most of that weight back in muscle (or water?).
> > I'm
> > 11.3% bf now. That's down from 22% a couple years ago. I'm 5' 10". While
> > I'm
> > not in my teens.. I'm hoping to gain 40 pounds of muscle over the next
10
> > years. Is that insane?
> >
> > Richard
> >
>
> That is not insane at all. I would strongly suggest that you get as lean
as
> possible first. I would even approach it like you are going to do a
contest,
> but not actually compete. Everyone needs to really see what they look like
> when they get rid of their fat. EVERYONE loses more than they think they
> will. I would not even get near a scale for the next 8-10 weeks and do
> everything with the mirror and your clothes. Another big advantage to this
> is that the body just loves to go into an anabolic mode after a long
period
> of caloric restriction. Many guys used to like to take time off after a
> contest, but it is the best time to grow. That way you can be 100% that
what
> you are gaining is muscle and not fat. I am not saying that you need to st
ay
> in contest shape, but everyone that I know has found that it is far easier
> to gain if you keep within sight of your contest weight. May I ask what
the
> health issues are that you have? What are you weighing right now? Drop me
an
> e mail at rob at hardbopdrumsdotcom.
>

health issues include hashimoto's thyroiditis (autoimmune disease, causes me
to be hypothyroid). So I take 50mcg of synthroid daily (kind of like
cytomel). Its ok.. it allows me to play with my metabolism. Then I have some
cardiac problems like PSVT, MVP with slight regurgitation, and some other
things. And I have joint pains from being hypo.. like costochondritis. I'm
weighing 175 right now. Will send an email with other info

Richard

>
> --
> Robert Schuh
> "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
> intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
> the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
> the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
> - Nietzsche
>
> http://www.hardbopdrums.com/
>
>
>

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, ATP* wrote:

> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0704151016080.8433@urchin.earth .li...
>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Hard Bop Drums wrote:
>>
>>> Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote in message
>>> news:nfaUh.214198$6P2.119659@newsfe16.phx...
>>>> "asdf" <qjohnny2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1176576663.435377.197240@l77g2000hsb.googlegr oups.com...
>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering what is the best time to eat before a work out ?
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what others do but I eat a bowl of oatmeal or rice 30 minutes
>>>> before. I drink protein and lots of carbs during the workout. After the
>>>> workout I have a swig of grape juice. 30 minutes later I eat something
>>>> like steak & eggs. Then I drink protein and carbs for 3 hours. Then I
>>>> drink time-release protein and go to sleep (bed time). Seems to work
>>>> best for me. ymmv and I'm not sure if this is correct. its just what I
>>>> do.
>>>
>>> If you have time to eat a lot during a work out, you are not training
>>> hard. THE last thing I could even think about while training is eating.
>>
>> Er, where does he say he eats during a workout?
>
> Where he said:
> I drink protein and lots of carbs during the workout.

I don't usually think of drinking as being a type of eating.

Drumming Bob's point was that if he was eating during a workout, he
couldn't be working out hard, which i think is fair - we all know how
working out on a full stomach feels. However, the guy didn't say he was
doing that, so Rob's furious rage was misplaced. However, everyone now
seems to be getting along just peachy, so no need to wade in with the
sarky stick any more.

tom

--
information distribution, vox humana, deviation, handle, feed, l.g. **

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007, Pete wrote:

> "Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> schreef:
>
>> I don't know why but my bad cholesterol is sky high and my good
>> cholesterol is at 40 (the lowest acceptable).
>
> Riddle;
>
> There is only one type of cholesterol;
>
> Cholesterol.

Ah, the folly of chemists.

tom

--
information distribution, vox humana, deviation, handle, feed, l.g. **

Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0704162200570.27404@urchin.eart h.li...
> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, ATP* wrote:
>
>> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
>> news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0704151016080.8433@urchin.earth .li...
>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Hard Bop Drums wrote:
>>>
>>>> Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote in message
>>>> news:nfaUh.214198$6P2.119659@newsfe16.phx...
>>>>> "asdf" <qjohnny2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1176576663.435377.197240@l77g2000hsb.googlegr oups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was wondering what is the best time to eat before a work out ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure what others do but I eat a bowl of oatmeal or rice 30 minutes
>>>>> before. I drink protein and lots of carbs during the workout. After
>>>>> the
>>>>> workout I have a swig of grape juice. 30 minutes later I eat something
>>>>> like steak & eggs. Then I drink protein and carbs for 3 hours. Then I
>>>>> drink time-release protein and go to sleep (bed time). Seems to work
>>>>> best for me. ymmv and I'm not sure if this is correct. its just what I
>>>>> do.
>>>>
>>>> If you have time to eat a lot during a work out, you are not training
>>>> hard. THE last thing I could even think about while training is eating.
>>>
>>> Er, where does he say he eats during a workout?
>>
>> Where he said:
>> I drink protein and lots of carbs during the workout.
>
> I don't usually think of drinking as being a type of eating.
>
> Drumming Bob's point was that if he was eating during a workout, he
> couldn't be working out hard, which i think is fair - we all know how
> working out on a full stomach feels. However, the guy didn't say he was
> doing that, so Rob's furious rage was misplaced. However, everyone now
> seems to be getting along just peachy, so no need to wade in with the
> sarky stick any more.
>
> tom
>
> --
> information distribution, vox humana, deviation, handle, feed, l.g. **

Tom,
I think you have to remember that the fuck who posts as "ATP" is at best a
troll, more than likely he is just a mentally ill stalker. The guy has been
obsessed with me for years. We do know that he is a fat ass. I really tend
to attract fat stalkers. :-) The best he can do is to quote another brain
dead anonymous twat.



--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/


"

"Hard Bop Drums" <nospam@hardbopdrums.com> wrote in message
news:ylUUh.185864$JN6.55558@newsfe17.phx...
> Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0704162200570.27404@urchin.eart h.li...
>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, ATP* wrote:
>>
>>> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
>>> news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0704151016080.8433@urchin.earth .li...
>>>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Hard Bop Drums wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Richard" <no@spam.invalid.domain> wrote in message
>>>>> news:nfaUh.214198$6P2.119659@newsfe16.phx...
>>>>>> "asdf" <qjohnny2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:1176576663.435377.197240@l77g2000hsb.googlegr oups.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was wondering what is the best time to eat before a work out ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure what others do but I eat a bowl of oatmeal or rice 30
>>>>>> minutes
>>>>>> before. I drink protein and lots of carbs during the workout. After
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> workout I have a swig of grape juice. 30 minutes later I eat
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> like steak & eggs. Then I drink protein and carbs for 3 hours. Then I
>>>>>> drink time-release protein and go to sleep (bed time). Seems to work
>>>>>> best for me. ymmv and I'm not sure if this is correct. its just what
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> do.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have time to eat a lot during a work out, you are not training
>>>>> hard. THE last thing I could even think about while training is
>>>>> eating.
>>>>
>>>> Er, where does he say he eats during a workout?
>>>
>>> Where he said:
>>> I drink protein and lots of carbs during the workout.
>>
>> I don't usually think of drinking as being a type of eating.
>>
>> Drumming Bob's point was that if he was eating during a workout, he
>> couldn't be working out hard, which i think is fair - we all know how
>> working out on a full stomach feels. However, the guy didn't say he was
>> doing that, so Rob's furious rage was misplaced. However, everyone now
>> seems to be getting along just peachy, so no need to wade in with the
>> sarky stick any more.
>>
>> tom
>>
>> --
>> information distribution, vox humana, deviation, handle, feed, l.g. **
>
> Tom,
> I think you have to remember that the fuck who posts as "ATP" is at best a
> troll, more than likely he is just a mentally ill stalker. The guy has
> been obsessed with me for years. We do know that he is a fat ass. I really
> tend to attract fat stalkers. :-) The best he can do is to quote another
> brain dead anonymous twat.
>
>
>
> --
> Robert Schuh

You have serious comprehension problems, Bert. What I said actually
supported your point. He said:

>>>> Er, where does he say he eats during a workout?

I said:

>>> Where he said:
>>> I drink protein and lots of carbs during the workout.

Go pull on some skins, felonious punk.

"ATP*" <waxwingslain@azurepane.com> wrote in message
news:2tWUh.1252$GP4.794@newsfe12.lga...

> Go pull on some skins, felonious punk.

Yeah, that Felonious Punk was one helluva jazz pianist!

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007, Zen Cohen wrote:

>
> "ATP*" <waxwingslain@azurepane.com> wrote in message
> news:2tWUh.1252$GP4.794@newsfe12.lga...
>
>> Go pull on some skins, felonious punk.
>
> Yeah, that Felonious Punk was one helluva jazz pianist!

NOMINATE.

tom

--
got EXPERTISE in BADASS BRAIN FREEZE

In news:58f9qbF2f8jgtU1@mid.individual.net,
Steve Freides <steve@fridayscomputer.com> typed:
> "asdf" <qjohnny2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1176576663.435377.197240@l77g2000hsb.googlegr oups.com...
>> I was wondering what is the best time to eat before a work out ?
>>
>> It seems a small snack about 30 mins before is best accodring to this
>> chart:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Glycemic.png
>>
>> Blood glucose levels peak about 30 mins after a meal..
>>
>> But have heard before that you should eat about 1.5 hours before ...
>> what is correct ?
>
> No science claimed here, but most endurance athletes like to get
> eating done and out of the way longer before a workout;

I think you'll find most endurance athletes need to take carbs on board
during a workout!

> for lifters,
> closer to the start of, during, or after seems to work out better.
> Personally, I don't like eating before or during, but I do like to
> have a snack with some protein and carbs in it shortly after my
> workout is done.
> You don't state any specific goals or give any background info so it's
> tough to say what might be "best" for you and your situation.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

In article <1176576663.435377.197240@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups .com>,
"asdf" <qjohnny2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I was wondering what is the best time to eat before a work out ?
>
> It seems a small snack about 30 mins before is best accodring to this
> chart:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Glycemic.png
>
> Blood glucose levels peak about 30 mins after a meal..
>
> But have heard before that you should eat about 1.5 hours before ...
> what is correct ?

This is addressed here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...4/14/AR2007041
400174.html