Bowflex shatters under load

My Bowflex PowerPro with Lat Tower failed dangerously this weekend as
I started my workout. The plastic rod box holding the flex rods broke
loose from the machine's vertical shaft and both ends of the box
shattered, scattering jagged shards of plastic in all directions. I
found pieces scattered as far as 15 feet away.

The rods also caused some minor damage to the drywall behind the
apparatus, and just missed hitting two windows. Both ends of the box,
each holding two 50# rods were broken open, and three of the six 50#
broke through the plastic where their bases are screwed into the box.
The box is not the original one bought six years ago, but a much more
recent replacement.

Since I follow SuperSlow protocol, my workouts are quite brief and
infrequent. I guesstimate the total time this box has been under load
of any kind is less than 50 hours total, and the total time under
maximum load less than 20% of that, or 10 hours.

The exercise I had begun was a seated calf raise using all of the rods
at once, preparatory to doing a leg press.

Since the PowerPro provides no suitable foot brace for using the full
power of the rods in either of these exercises (the resistance is
progressive, so you only get 410# resistance when all the rods are
pulled right down to the pulley), I've added a third (bolt-on) foot
rest, suitably reinforced, where the bench is bolted to the frame.
This is the only way anyone with an inside pant leg measurement less
than 43 inches can flex the rods fully using the waist belt (even so,
the resistance is insufficient for me, so I use the calf-raise to
pre-fatigue my calf muscles).

In accordance with SuperSlow protocol, I take great care to avoid any
sudden or explosive movements. To overcome the lack of leverage at the
beginning of my calf-raise and leg-press exercises (the only two out
of a total of 11 in which I use more than 200# resistance) I
pre-tension the rods and lock them in stages, using tie-down webbing
belts. This makes mounting and dismounting the apparatus much safer
and comfortable. I had just completed the last pre-tensioning stage,
and was half-way into position for my first positive calf raise (ie.
the rods were roughly at 80% flex), when the rod box shattered and the
entire rod bundle went flying until stopped by the tie-down straps
(without the tie-down straps, the rods would have had another two feet
of free travel, and could possibly have broken one or both of the two
windows on either side of the PowerPro, which faces into a corner of
my sun room).


All of the four screws that hold the rod box to the upright frame were
still in place. The sequence of breakage isn't obvious. There's an
almost straight vertical break line in the box where it sits between
the lat tower and the PowerPro's upright shaft. Perhaps this broke
first and set off a chain reaction on the back side. Or the box may
have cracked first all around the four screws that hold it to the back
of the upright. The latter area has always been the weakest spot on my
machine. Cracks there have appeared on every box I've ever had
immediately after first use, no matter how much care I've taken in
installation. This box was the fourth I've installed.

Aside from the complete destruction of the main rod box, the upgrade
sub-box (which slides into the main box to allow adding two 50# rods
at the far end) was also ruined, in that the holding screw of one of
the rods broke through the base. Looking at the pattern of box damage,
it appears likely that the initial break occurred on one side, as all
three of the 50# rods broke through the rod box base on the right
side, while no rods broke free on the left. The rubber sheathing on
the two front 50# rods and one of the 10# rods is also torn in a
couple of places.

Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this incident is that I had no
warning. As mentioned previously, the rod boxes always have cracks.
After four replacements, and taking every possible precaution
(replacing the stock phillips-head composite holding screws with cap
head screws of the same thread and dimensions, and making absolutely
sure they went it square and weren't overtightened), the cracks
continued to appear immediately, and I had to decide to either ignore
them or stop using the Bowflex altogether. The cracks are extremely
hard to see in the rodbox material, and there have been in suggestions
from the manufacturers to help the user decide when they've become
critical.

As it happens, I had done a full workout routine without any sign of
problems only a few days before, and so this incident took me entirely
by surprise. Happily, I had a functional spare box in my Bowflex parts
collection, so after taking a series of photos to document the affair,
I replaced the box and completed my exercise routine.

Since I have previously encourage others here to try the Bowflex
PowerPro, I now feel obliged to post this warning for anyone using
this machine or other Bowflex machines employing the same rod box.

As mentioned above, the effects of this breakage were likely limited
in this case by my use of tie-down straps which significantly reduced
the range of flight of the rods and box once they cut loose from the
frame. So a similar occurrence on a stock machine could be much more
dangerous.

It may be that this could never happen on an unmodified PowerPro
machine simply because it's impossible to flex the complete 410#
complement of rods to the maximum using the provided foot rests
(unless you're 7 feet tall!). However, although I've never had a
chance to inspect the later models, from the online pictures it
appears that one might be able to use the full resistance while doing
squats with some of them.

One precaution I strongly recommend, and intend to follow diligently
myself in view of this breakdown, is to ALLWAYS WEAR EYE-PROTECTION
when using the Bowflex.

This posting was my first priority, so I haven't contacted Bowflex
about this problem yet. If there's any expression of interest here,
I'll be happy to post follow-up information as I receive it.


--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

"Achim Nolcken Lohse" <lohsea@3web.nettax> wrote in message
news:45ff1a25.16127132@news.telus.net...
> My Bowflex PowerPro with Lat Tower failed dangerously this weekend as
> I started my workout. The plastic rod box holding the flex rods broke
> loose from the machine's vertical shaft and both ends of the box
> shattered, scattering jagged shards of plastic in all directions. I
> found pieces scattered as far as 15 feet away.
>
> The rods also caused some minor damage to the drywall behind the
> apparatus, and just missed hitting two windows. Both ends of the box,
> each holding two 50# rods were broken open, and three of the six 50#
> broke through the plastic where their bases are screwed into the box.
> The box is not the original one bought six years ago, but a much more
> recent replacement.
>
> Since I follow SuperSlow protocol, my workouts are quite brief and
> infrequent. I guesstimate the total time this box has been under load
> of any kind is less than 50 hours total, and the total time under
> maximum load less than 20% of that, or 10 hours.
>
> The exercise I had begun was a seated calf raise using all of the rods
> at once, preparatory to doing a leg press.
>
> Since the PowerPro provides no suitable foot brace for using the full
> power of the rods in either of these exercises (the resistance is
> progressive, so you only get 410# resistance when all the rods are
> pulled right down to the pulley), I've added a third (bolt-on) foot
> rest, suitably reinforced, where the bench is bolted to the frame.
> This is the only way anyone with an inside pant leg measurement less
> than 43 inches can flex the rods fully using the waist belt (even so,
> the resistance is insufficient for me, so I use the calf-raise to
> pre-fatigue my calf muscles).
>
> In accordance with SuperSlow protocol, I take great care to avoid any
> sudden or explosive movements. To overcome the lack of leverage at the
> beginning of my calf-raise and leg-press exercises (the only two out
> of a total of 11 in which I use more than 200# resistance) I
> pre-tension the rods and lock them in stages, using tie-down webbing
> belts. This makes mounting and dismounting the apparatus much safer
> and comfortable. I had just completed the last pre-tensioning stage,
> and was half-way into position for my first positive calf raise (ie.
> the rods were roughly at 80% flex), when the rod box shattered and the
> entire rod bundle went flying until stopped by the tie-down straps
> (without the tie-down straps, the rods would have had another two feet
> of free travel, and could possibly have broken one or both of the two
> windows on either side of the PowerPro, which faces into a corner of
> my sun room).
>
>
> All of the four screws that hold the rod box to the upright frame were
> still in place. The sequence of breakage isn't obvious. There's an
> almost straight vertical break line in the box where it sits between
> the lat tower and the PowerPro's upright shaft. Perhaps this broke
> first and set off a chain reaction on the back side. Or the box may
> have cracked first all around the four screws that hold it to the back
> of the upright. The latter area has always been the weakest spot on my
> machine. Cracks there have appeared on every box I've ever had
> immediately after first use, no matter how much care I've taken in
> installation. This box was the fourth I've installed.
>
> Aside from the complete destruction of the main rod box, the upgrade
> sub-box (which slides into the main box to allow adding two 50# rods
> at the far end) was also ruined, in that the holding screw of one of
> the rods broke through the base. Looking at the pattern of box damage,
> it appears likely that the initial break occurred on one side, as all
> three of the 50# rods broke through the rod box base on the right
> side, while no rods broke free on the left. The rubber sheathing on
> the two front 50# rods and one of the 10# rods is also torn in a
> couple of places.
>
> Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this incident is that I had no
> warning. As mentioned previously, the rod boxes always have cracks.
> After four replacements, and taking every possible precaution
> (replacing the stock phillips-head composite holding screws with cap
> head screws of the same thread and dimensions, and making absolutely
> sure they went it square and weren't overtightened), the cracks
> continued to appear immediately, and I had to decide to either ignore
> them or stop using the Bowflex altogether. The cracks are extremely
> hard to see in the rodbox material, and there have been in suggestions
> from the manufacturers to help the user decide when they've become
> critical.
>
> As it happens, I had done a full workout routine without any sign of
> problems only a few days before, and so this incident took me entirely
> by surprise. Happily, I had a functional spare box in my Bowflex parts
> collection, so after taking a series of photos to document the affair,
> I replaced the box and completed my exercise routine.
>
> Since I have previously encourage others here to try the Bowflex
> PowerPro, I now feel obliged to post this warning for anyone using
> this machine or other Bowflex machines employing the same rod box.
>
> As mentioned above, the effects of this breakage were likely limited
> in this case by my use of tie-down straps which significantly reduced
> the range of flight of the rods and box once they cut loose from the
> frame. So a similar occurrence on a stock machine could be much more
> dangerous.
>
> It may be that this could never happen on an unmodified PowerPro
> machine simply because it's impossible to flex the complete 410#
> complement of rods to the maximum using the provided foot rests
> (unless you're 7 feet tall!). However, although I've never had a
> chance to inspect the later models, from the online pictures it
> appears that one might be able to use the full resistance while doing
> squats with some of them.
>
> One precaution I strongly recommend, and intend to follow diligently
> myself in view of this breakdown, is to ALLWAYS WEAR EYE-PROTECTION
> when using the Bowflex.
>
> This posting was my first priority, so I haven't contacted Bowflex
> about this problem yet. If there's any expression of interest here,
> I'll be happy to post follow-up information as I receive it.
>
>
Let's face it Achim, to make a very long story shorter, you bought a pile of
junk.

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:01:31 +1000, "David" <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

>
>"Achim Nolcken Lohse" <lohsea@3web.nettax> wrote in message
>news:45ff1a25.16127132@news.telus.net...
>> My Bowflex PowerPro with Lat Tower failed dangerously this weekend as
>> I started my workout. The plastic rod box holding the flex rods broke
>> loose from the machine's vertical shaft and both ends of the box
>> shattered, scattering jagged shards of plastic in all directions. I
>> found pieces scattered as far as 15 feet away.
>>
>....
>>
>> One precaution I strongly recommend, and intend to follow diligently
>> myself in view of this breakdown, is to ALLWAYS WEAR EYE-PROTECTION
>> when using the Bowflex.
>>
>> This posting was my first priority, so I haven't contacted Bowflex
>> about this problem yet. If there's any expression of interest here,
>> I'll be happy to post follow-up information as I receive it.
>>
>>
>Let's face it Achim, to make a very long story shorter, you bought a pile of
>junk.
>
Compared to what? Sure, if I had had US$28,000 (plus shipping) to
spare, and the room to put it in, I would have bought a minimal
Superslow apparatus (leg press, chest press, and pull-down machines)
instead.

The fact is that the Bowflex was strongly endorsed by Ellington
Darden, who has some serious professional credentials in the fitness
community, and quite a few owners have reported that this apparatus
worked satisfactorily for them. For many people, the Bowflex PowerPro
was the ONLY serious workout apparatus they could fit into their
living space.

This was also my situation when I bought it. And with care and some
ingenuity, I was able to get reasonably adequate service out of mine
for six years, despite being six feet tall and 200+ lbs.

Most importantly, though, there are thousands of these machines out
there, and I feel the owners should be alerted to the hazard I've just
encountered, since Bowflex has a very poor record on this score.

I don't think posting "my Bowflex PowerPro is a piece of junk" would
have achieved that goal. I know I wouldn't have paid much attention to
such a message.

BTW - I've notified Nautilus, the current owners of Bowflex, of the
problem, and am waiting to hear back from them.
--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

"Achim Nolcken Lohse" <lohsea@3web.nettax> wrote in message
news:460029bc.13227344@news.telus.net...
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:01:31 +1000, "David" <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Achim Nolcken Lohse" <lohsea@3web.nettax> wrote in message
>>news:45ff1a25.16127132@news.telus.net...
>>> My Bowflex PowerPro with Lat Tower failed dangerously this weekend as
>>> I started my workout. The plastic rod box holding the flex rods broke
>>> loose from the machine's vertical shaft and both ends of the box
>>> shattered, scattering jagged shards of plastic in all directions. I
>>> found pieces scattered as far as 15 feet away.
>>>
>>....
>>>
>>> One precaution I strongly recommend, and intend to follow diligently
>>> myself in view of this breakdown, is to ALLWAYS WEAR EYE-PROTECTION
>>> when using the Bowflex.
>>>
>>> This posting was my first priority, so I haven't contacted Bowflex
>>> about this problem yet. If there's any expression of interest here,
>>> I'll be happy to post follow-up information as I receive it.
>>>
>>>
>>Let's face it Achim, to make a very long story shorter, you bought a pile
>>of
>>junk.
>>
> Compared to what? Sure, if I had had US$28,000 (plus shipping) to
> spare, and the room to put it in, I would have bought a minimal
> Superslow apparatus (leg press, chest press, and pull-down machines)
> instead.
>
> The fact is that the Bowflex was strongly endorsed by Ellington
> Darden, who has some serious professional credentials in the fitness
> community, and quite a few owners have reported that this apparatus
> worked satisfactorily for them. For many people, the Bowflex PowerPro
> was the ONLY serious workout apparatus they could fit into their
> living space.
>
> This was also my situation when I bought it. And with care and some
> ingenuity, I was able to get reasonably adequate service out of mine
> for six years, despite being six feet tall and 200+ lbs.
>
> Most importantly, though, there are thousands of these machines out
> there, and I feel the owners should be alerted to the hazard I've just
> encountered, since Bowflex has a very poor record on this score.
>
> I don't think posting "my Bowflex PowerPro is a piece of junk" would
> have achieved that goal. I know I wouldn't have paid much attention to
> such a message.
>
> BTW - I've notified Nautilus, the current owners of Bowflex, of the
> problem, and am waiting to hear back from them.
> --
>
> Achim
> _____/)
> axethetax


I guess it depends on your goals - if you are serious about gaining muscle
mass you would never use a Bowflex - not one serious bodybuilder uses
Bowflex - it is popular for one reason only and that is the power of
advertising - I am not saying that free weights is the only alternative -
you can use machines with stack weights that will work infinitely better
than Bowflex, This system never got a foothold in Australia although the
importers have tried mainly because they did not have massive advertising
dollars. The biomechanics is poor, the incrementation is a joke. Range of
motion is suspect (I haven't used it I admit this is hearsay) If you ever
see a commercial quality version of Bowflex used in any health club or gym
anywhere in the world, be sure to let me know. It is a con job and makes a
great coat hanger

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:56:42 GMT, lohsea@3web.nettax (Achim Nolcken
Lohse) wrote:

......
>>
>>"Achim Nolcken Lohse" <lohsea@3web.nettax> wrote in message
>>news:45ff1a25.16127132@news.telus.net...
>>> My Bowflex PowerPro with Lat Tower failed dangerously this weekend as
>>> I started my workout. The plastic rod box holding the flex rods broke
>>> loose from the machine's vertical shaft and both ends of the box
>>> shattered, scattering jagged shards of plastic in all directions. I
>>> found pieces scattered as far as 15 feet away.
>>>
>>....
>>>
Update: received an e-mail from Nautilus Canada today in response to
my mail reporting the Bowflex problem above.

The good news: Nautilus has extended the blanket warranty on the
PowerPro from five years to ten. They're shipping me a replacement for
the broken rod box and are also replacing the three rods whose rubber
sleeves were torn in the mishap. My only cost is a shipping charge of
CAD$15 plus tax.

The bad news: there appears to be no concern as to the safety aspect.
I wasn't questioned as to the details, nor were photos of the broken
parts requested. So it appears such failure reports are not routinely
investigated or analysed.

Hopefully they are recorded and flagged when a certain number
occur....


--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:00:56 +1000, "David" <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

>
>"Achim Nolcken Lohse" <lohsea@3web.nettax> wrote in message
>news:460029bc.13227344@news.telus.net...
>> On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:01:31 +1000, "David" <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
....
>
>
>I guess it depends on your goals - if you are serious about gaining muscle
>mass you would never use a Bowflex - not one serious bodybuilder uses
>Bowflex -

That may be true, and understandably - the 410# resistance at maximum
extension isn't enough to fatigue the major muscles with normal
technique.

>it is popular for one reason only and that is the power of
>advertising -

I have to disagree there. I've read lots of posts from people who,
like myself, find the marketing technique extremely off-putting. I
haven't really looked at what's available since buying my PowerPro
early in 2001, so things may have changed considerably. But back then,
I couldn't find anything with a comparably small footprint in use and
in storage.

At that time, I set the Bowflex up with the bench between the foot of
my bed on one side, and a bookshelf on the other, while the rods came
down into my closet on one side and between the bed and a chest of
drawers on the other. And when I was done, the whole thing stood in a
corner and took up little more than four square feet of floor space.
Add to that the ability to transit from one exercise to another quite
quickly and, not least important, the relatively low risk of
self-injury, and you had a fairly good desing. Of course it's only
later that you find out about the shoddy workmanship, the ill-fitting
off-the-shelf parts, and some of the more serious limiations of the
configuration (notably, the lack of adequate footrests for leg press).
/
>I am not saying that free weights is the only alternative -
>you can use machines with stack weights that will work infinitely better
>than Bowflex, This system never got a foothold in Australia although the
>importers have tried mainly because they did not have massive advertising
>dollars. The biomechanics is poor, the incrementation is a joke. Range of
>motion is suspect (I haven't used it I admit this is hearsay) If you ever
>see a commercial quality version of Bowflex used in any health club or gym
>anywhere in the world, be sure to let me know. It is a con job and makes a
>great coat hanger


Well, my reason for trying it was the endorsement of Ellington Darden,
who cited excellent training results in a fairly substantial group of
subjects using the Bowflex. Certainly this was not a group of
bodybuilders, and there were diet and hyrdration aspects of Darden's
regime. But the reported results were impressive for anyone who just
wanted to get fit and remain fit safely by working out alone and using
home equipment that didn't require the dedication of a whole room.

Sure, a Smith machine would work better, and a good leg press wouldn't
hurt either. But how would a person living in an apartment or a small
house ever accomodate such equipment? I started out with an ordinary
bench and free weights, and quickly managed to injure myself and put a
hole in the floor. I was lucky the injury wasn't too serious, although
like many such weightlifting injuries, it took months to recover. It
made me think about the damage a little 25lb weight can do when
dropped on your foot, etc., and I decided to take a safer course....

It's really too bad that Nautilus/Bowflex have elected to stress the
marketing and ignore the quality, because I think there is potential
in the concept, if only it were developed properly.




--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

"Achim Nolcken Lohse" <lohsea@3web.nettax> wrote in message
news:460087ad.16395542@news.telus.net...
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:00:56 +1000, "David" <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Achim Nolcken Lohse" <lohsea@3web.nettax> wrote in message
>>news:460029bc.13227344@news.telus.net...
>>> On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:01:31 +1000, "David" <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
> ...
>>
>>
>>I guess it depends on your goals - if you are serious about gaining muscle
>>mass you would never use a Bowflex - not one serious bodybuilder uses
>>Bowflex -
>
> That may be true, and understandably - the 410# resistance at maximum
> extension isn't enough to fatigue the major muscles with normal
> technique.
>
>>it is popular for one reason only and that is the power of
>>advertising -
>
> I have to disagree there. I've read lots of posts from people who,
> like myself, find the marketing technique extremely off-putting. I
> haven't really looked at what's available since buying my PowerPro
> early in 2001, so things may have changed considerably. But back then,
> I couldn't find anything with a comparably small footprint in use and
> in storage.
>
> At that time, I set the Bowflex up with the bench between the foot of
> my bed on one side, and a bookshelf on the other, while the rods came
> down into my closet on one side and between the bed and a chest of
> drawers on the other. And when I was done, the whole thing stood in a
> corner and took up little more than four square feet of floor space.
> Add to that the ability to transit from one exercise to another quite
> quickly and, not least important, the relatively low risk of
> self-injury, and you had a fairly good desing. Of course it's only
> later that you find out about the shoddy workmanship, the ill-fitting
> off-the-shelf parts, and some of the more serious limiations of the
> configuration (notably, the lack of adequate footrests for leg press).
> /
>>I am not saying that free weights is the only alternative -
>>you can use machines with stack weights that will work infinitely better
>>than Bowflex, This system never got a foothold in Australia although the
>>importers have tried mainly because they did not have massive advertising
>>dollars. The biomechanics is poor, the incrementation is a joke. Range of
>>motion is suspect (I haven't used it I admit this is hearsay) If you ever
>>see a commercial quality version of Bowflex used in any health club or gym
>>anywhere in the world, be sure to let me know. It is a con job and makes a
>>great coat hanger
>
>
> Well, my reason for trying it was the endorsement of Ellington Darden,
> who cited excellent training results in a fairly substantial group of
> subjects using the Bowflex. Certainly this was not a group of
> bodybuilders, and there were diet and hyrdration aspects of Darden's
> regime. But the reported results were impressive for anyone who just
> wanted to get fit and remain fit safely by working out alone and using
> home equipment that didn't require the dedication of a whole room.
>
> Sure, a Smith machine would work better, and a good leg press wouldn't
> hurt either. But how would a person living in an apartment or a small
> house ever accomodate such equipment? I started out with an ordinary
> bench and free weights, and quickly managed to injure myself and put a
> hole in the floor. I was lucky the injury wasn't too serious, although
> like many such weightlifting injuries, it took months to recover. It
> made me think about the damage a little 25lb weight can do when
> dropped on your foot, etc., and I decided to take a safer course....
>
> It's really too bad that Nautilus/Bowflex have elected to stress the
> marketing and ignore the quality, because I think there is potential
> in the concept, if only it were developed properly.
>

I give you a guarantee that a celebrity endorsement means nothing -
specially when Nautilus dangle $1m in front of him.
Just have a look at "body by Jake" this guy would have to be the biggest con
man on earth -- touting crunch machines that will "trim inches from your abs
in 7 days or your money back"

But if you like Bowflex, that is the bottom line.
I guess 2 million users can't be wrong

Achim Nolcken Lohse wrote:

> My Bowflex PowerPro with Lat Tower
> failed dangerously this weekend <snip>
> both ends of the box shattered, scattering
> jagged shards of plastic in all directions.
[...]

Nice. Shrapnel just adds that extra something to a workout.

> Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this
> incident is that I had no warning.
[...]

And, hey, who doesn't love surprises?

> One precaution I strongly recommend,
> and intend to follow diligently myself
> in view of this breakdown, is to ALLWAYS
^^^^^^^^^^^^
> WEAR EYE-PROTECTION
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> when using the Bowflex.

No pun intended? Regardless, obviously that's great advice. I'd
include body armor as you stated the shrapnel spanned a distance of 15
feet minimum, right? Took out some drywall? I'll guess that'd sever a
few things you'd rather not have severed. Fingers, nose, oh, jugular,
etc.?

> <snip> I haven't contacted Bowflex
> about this problem yet.

I mighta made THAT phonecall BEFORE posting to MFW.

> If there's any expression of interest here,
> I'll be happy to post follow-up information
> as I receive it.

(raises hand)

> Achim

Glad you weren't injured. Definitely post a follow-up.

And, uh, double up on your sweats if you don't get the body armor. A
nice bicycle helmet might not be a bad idea either. Do they make those
with a visor?

--
Curt

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174470983.142048.261010@y80g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com...
> Achim Nolcken Lohse wrote:
>
>> My Bowflex PowerPro with Lat Tower
>> failed dangerously this weekend <snip>
>> both ends of the box shattered, scattering
>> jagged shards of plastic in all directions.
> [...]
>
> Nice. Shrapnel just adds that extra something to a workout.
>
>> Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this
>> incident is that I had no warning.
> [...]
>
> And, hey, who doesn't love surprises?
>
>> One precaution I strongly recommend,
>> and intend to follow diligently myself
>> in view of this breakdown, is to ALLWAYS
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> WEAR EYE-PROTECTION
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> when using the Bowflex.
>
> No pun intended? Regardless, obviously that's great advice. I'd
> include body armor as you stated the shrapnel spanned a distance of 15
> feet minimum, right? Took out some drywall? I'll guess that'd sever a
> few things you'd rather not have severed. Fingers, nose, oh, jugular,
> etc.?
>
>> <snip> I haven't contacted Bowflex
>> about this problem yet.
>
> I mighta made THAT phonecall BEFORE posting to MFW.
>
>> If there's any expression of interest here,
>> I'll be happy to post follow-up information
>> as I receive it.
>
> (raises hand)
>
>> Achim
>
> Glad you weren't injured. Definitely post a follow-up.
>
> And, uh, double up on your sweats if you don't get the body armor. A
> nice bicycle helmet might not be a bad idea either. Do they make those
> with a visor?
>

Achim - don't pay any attention to that Curt guy - he is upset because the
janitor that used to run the bldg where he works quit and as a parting
gesture he stole Curt's hat and relieved himself in it - then stole Curt's
calculator. Of course he is Chairman of the Humour Committee and what that
really means is that we 'humour' him.

> --
> Curt
>
>

In article <45ff1a25.16127132@news.telus.net>, lohsea@3web.nettax (Achim
Nolcken Lohse) wrote:

> My Bowflex PowerPro with Lat Tower failed dangerously this weekend as
> I started my workout. The plastic rod box holding the flex rods broke
> loose from the machine's vertical shaft and both ends of the box
> shattered, scattering jagged shards of plastic in all directions. I
> found pieces scattered as far as 15 feet away.


Hmmm, plastic rods. No chance of problems there....

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

On Mar 20, 12:56 pm, loh...@3web.nettax (Achim Nolcken Lohse) wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:01:31 +1000, "David" <forgot...@yahoo.com.au>

> The fact is that the Bowflex was strongly endorsed by Ellington
> Darden, who has some serious professional credentials in the fitness
> community, and quite a few owners have reported that this apparatus
> worked satisfactorily for them. For many people, the Bowflex PowerPro
> was the ONLY serious workout apparatus they could fit into their
> living space.
>

I have a lot of respect for Ellington Darden, but if he has been
promoting Bowflex as a good way to subsantially increase muscle mass,
you need to consider his ties to Arthur Jones and the Nautilus
company.


Ken

On 21 Mar 2007 02:56:23 -0700, "Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote:

>Achim Nolcken Lohse wrote:
>
>> My Bowflex PowerPro with Lat Tower
>> failed dangerously this weekend <snip>
>> both ends of the box shattered, scattering
>> jagged shards of plastic in all directions.
>[...]
>
>Nice. Shrapnel just adds that extra something to a workout.

Hey, I didn't chronograph the fragments! One of the things that makes
the Bowflex relatively save to use is the resistance curve of the
rods, which precludes their developing any serious velocity.
....
>
>> One precaution I strongly recommend,
>> and intend to follow diligently myself
>> in view of this breakdown, is to ALLWAYS
>^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> WEAR EYE-PROTECTION
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> when using the Bowflex.
>
>No pun intended? Regardless, obviously that's great advice. I'd
>include body armor as you stated the shrapnel spanned a distance of 15
>feet minimum, right?

My guess is that none of the plastic fragments would have enough
energy to do more than scratch the skin. Eyes, on the other hand,
might be injured by an unlucky impact.

>Took out some drywall? I'll guess that'd sever a
>few things you'd rather not have severed. Fingers, nose, oh, jugular,
>etc.?

No, the slight damage to the drywall was caused by the rod bundle, not
the box fragments. That said, it must be remembered that my machine is
equipped with the lat tower attachment that doesn't come standard with
the bare-bones PowerPro. And this tower sits between the rod box and
the user, providing significant shielding from flying fragments and
unleashed rods. A standard PowerPro wouldn't provide this shielding.
>
>> <snip> I haven't contacted Bowflex
>> about this problem yet.
>
>I mighta made THAT phonecall BEFORE posting to MFW.

As reported in my subsequent post, I've done that now, and (as
expected), they haven't expressed concern for the safety implications
of my experience. They're shipping me a replacement rod box and three
rods to replace those whose sleeves were torn in the mishap.
>
>> If there's any expression of interest here,
>> I'll be happy to post follow-up information
>> as I receive it.
>
>(raises hand)
>
....
>
>Glad you weren't injured. Definitely post a follow-up.

Thank you!
>
>And, uh, double up on your sweats if you don't get the body armor. A
>nice bicycle helmet might not be a bad idea either. Do they make those
>with a visor?
>
See above. However, I am wearing the safety glasses religiously, and
am now examining the back of the rod box, where it's anchored to the
frame upright, for serious cracks before and after every exercise
session.
....
--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:39:22 +1000, "David" <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

....
>>
>> And, uh, double up on your sweats if you don't get the body armor. A
>> nice bicycle helmet might not be a bad idea either. Do they make those
>> with a visor?
>>
>
>Achim - don't pay any attention to that Curt guy - he is upset because the
>janitor that used to run the bldg where he works quit and as a parting
>gesture he stole Curt's hat and relieved himself in it - then stole Curt's
>calculator. Of course he is Chairman of the Humour Committee and what that
>really means is that we 'humour' him.
>
>> --
No problem. Good, clean humour always spices things up a bit.

I try to do my homework, so although I haven't posted here for six
years, I did download and look through some 11,000 headers IIRC in
misc.fitness.weights (my ISP's news server co-ordinators must think
highly of this group, because they keep three months' worth of
messages) before posting again. So I've already had a taste of the
Humour Committee's servings.

But thanks for the heads up.


--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:03:20 -0400, willbrink@comcast.net (Will Brink)
wrote:

>In article <45ff1a25.16127132@news.telus.net>, lohsea@3web.nettax (Achim
>Nolcken Lohse) wrote:
>
>> My Bowflex PowerPro with Lat Tower failed dangerously this weekend as
>> I started my workout. The plastic rod box holding the flex rods broke
>> loose from the machine's vertical shaft and both ends of the box
>> shattered, scattering jagged shards of plastic in all directions. I
>> found pieces scattered as far as 15 feet away.
>
>
>Hmmm, plastic rods. No chance of problems there....
>
Correction: the rod holder box (the part that shattered) is plastic,
the rods are some sort of proprietary composite material.

FWIW, I own two rifles with plastic stocks, and they are pretty tough
- much tougher than wood, and a lot lighter than steel (I DID manage
to break one in two by dropping myself and my motorbike on it in
subzero temperature - but Steyr replaced it at no charge).

I've always felt the rod box was the weakest part of the Bowflex (I've
got five of them in various states of deterioration in my parts
collection). But, like many of the Bowflex's features, this may be
more a problem of shoddy implementation than a flaw in the conceptual
design.

Such an expensive apparatus (I paid CAD$1600 for a demo unit six years
ago, and shelled out another couple of hundred for the lat tower and
accessories two years later) should come with bolts instead of screws,
and exact torquing specs for all fasteners. Hell, I've got a $300 roof
rack for my VW Golf that comes with its own torque wrench!

One simple enhancement that I've undertaken is to replace all the
stock phillips-head screws that hold the rods in the rod box, and the
rod box to the frame, with socket-and-slot cap-head screws of the same
size and thread. This is the best one can do with fastener holes that
should have been threaded for bolts but weren't. The socket and cap
head allows one to better insure the screws are centered and not
overtightened. They also make later removal a lot easier.

I'm still waiting to find out how many removal-insertion cycles the
rod bases will sustain before reaming out. I found out a few years ago
that Bowflex was aware of this problem, because they have two sizes of
screws for the rod bases. They start with #8's, and then transition to
#10's. I found that loosening was a major problem with the #8's,
resulting in damage to both the screw hole and the grooves in the rod
bases that prevent them from rotating. I therefore replaced all of
these screws with the composite thread (ie. wider gap between cutting
edges) cap-head #10's, and have not had any loosening since, despite
the fact that there's already been considerable wear on the
positioning grooves from the initial use period.

The problem is that the 5# and 10# rods are pretty narrow, and may not
take a larger diameter screw without cracking.



--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

On Mar 19, 7:13 pm, loh...@3web.nettax (Achim Nolcken Lohse) wrote:
> My Bowflex PowerPro with Lat Tower failed dangerously this weekend as
> I started my workout. The plastic rod box holding the flex rods broke
> loose from the machine's vertical shaft and both ends of the box
> shattered, scattering jagged shards of plastic in all directions. I
> found pieces scattered as far as 15 feet away.
>
> The rods also caused some minor damage to the drywall behind the
> apparatus, and just missed hitting two windows. Both ends of the box,
> each holding two 50# rods were broken open, and three of the six 50#
> broke through the plastic where their bases are screwed into the box.
> The box is not the original one bought six years ago, but a much more
> recent replacement.
>
> Since I follow SuperSlow protocol, my workouts are quite brief and
> infrequent. I guesstimate the total time this box has been under load
> of any kind is less than 50 hours total, and the total time under
> maximum load less than 20% of that, or 10 hours.
>
> The exercise I had begun was a seated calf raise using all of the rods
> at once, preparatory to doing a leg press.
>
> Since the PowerPro provides no suitable foot brace for using the full
> power of the rods in either of these exercises (the resistance is
> progressive, so you only get 410# resistance when all the rods are
> pulled right down to the pulley), I've added a third (bolt-on) foot
> rest, suitably reinforced, where the bench is bolted to the frame.
> This is the only way anyone with an inside pant leg measurement less
> than 43 inches can flex the rods fully using the waist belt (even so,
> the resistance is insufficient for me, so I use the calf-raise to
> pre-fatigue my calf muscles).
>
> In accordance with SuperSlow protocol, I take great care to avoid any
> sudden or explosive movements. To overcome the lack of leverage at the
> beginning of my calf-raise and leg-press exercises (the only two out
> of a total of 11 in which I use more than 200# resistance) I
> pre-tension the rods and lock them in stages, using tie-down webbing
> belts. This makes mounting and dismounting the apparatus much safer
> and comfortable. I had just completed the last pre-tensioning stage,
> and was half-way into position for my first positive calf raise (ie.
> the rods were roughly at 80% flex), when the rod box shattered and the
> entire rod bundle went flying until stopped by the tie-down straps
> (without the tie-down straps, the rods would have had another two feet
> of free travel, and could possibly have broken one or both of the two
> windows on either side of the PowerPro, which faces into a corner of
> my sun room).
>
> All of the four screws that hold the rod box to the upright frame were
> still in place. The sequence of breakage isn't obvious. There's an
> almost straight vertical break line in the box where it sits between
> the lat tower and the PowerPro's upright shaft. Perhaps this broke
> first and set off a chain reaction on the back side. Or the box may
> have cracked first all around the four screws that hold it to the back
> of the upright. The latter area has always been the weakest spot on my
> machine. Cracks there have appeared on every box I've ever had
> immediately after first use, no matter how much care I've taken in
> installation. This box was the fourth I've installed.
>
> Aside from the complete destruction of the main rod box, the upgrade
> sub-box (which slides into the main box to allow adding two 50# rods
> at the far end) was also ruined, in that the holding screw of one of
> the rods broke through the base. Looking at the pattern of box damage,
> it appears likely that the initial break occurred on one side, as all
> three of the 50# rods broke through the rod box base on the right
> side, while no rods broke free on the left. The rubber sheathing on
> the two front 50# rods and one of the 10# rods is also torn in a
> couple of places.
>
> Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this incident is that I had no
> warning. As mentioned previously, the rod boxes always have cracks.
> After four replacements, and taking every possible precaution
> (replacing the stock phillips-head composite holding screws with cap
> head screws of the same thread and dimensions, and making absolutely
> sure they went it square and weren't overtightened), the cracks
> continued to appear immediately, and I had to decide to either ignore
> them or stop using the Bowflex altogether. The cracks are extremely
> hard to see in the rodbox material, and there have been in suggestions
> from the manufacturers to help the user decide when they've become
> critical.
>
> As it happens, I had done a full workout routine without any sign of
> problems only a few days before, and so this incident took me entirely
> by surprise. Happily, I had a functional spare box in my Bowflex parts
> collection, so after taking a series of photos to document the affair,
> I replaced the box and completed my exercise routine.
>
> Since I have previously encourage others here to try the Bowflex
> PowerPro, I now feel obliged to post this warning for anyone using
> this machine or other Bowflex machines employing the same rod box.
>
> As mentioned above, the effects of this breakage were likely limited
> in this case by my use of tie-down straps which significantly reduced
> the range of flight of the rods and box once they cut loose from the
> frame. So a similar occurrence on a stock machine could be much more
> dangerous.
>
> It may be that this could never happen on an unmodified PowerPro
> machine simply because it's impossible to flex the complete 410#
> complement of rods to the maximum using the provided foot rests
> (unless you're 7 feet tall!). However, although I've never had a
> chance to inspect the later models, from the online pictures it
> appears that one might be able to use the full resistance while doing
> squats with some of them.
>
> One precaution I strongly recommend, and intend to follow diligently
> myself in view of this breakdown, is to ALLWAYS WEAR EYE-PROTECTION
> when using the Bowflex.
>
> This posting was my first priority, so I haven't contacted Bowflex
> about this problem yet. If there's any expression of interest here,
> I'll be happy to post follow-up information as I receive it.
>
> --
>
> Achim
> _____/)
> axethetax

Achim - The bowflex is total and complete junk, I've never seen a
worst product on the market, it really is a piece of garbage. I
wouldn't take one for free, in fact if you paid me to have a brand new
one I'd decline.

Go get a used home gym - if you can't afford a new one just buy
used.....but really, Bowflex is garbage. Also, you only get
resistance one way which is ridiculous.

For $300 you can get yourself a Weider Home Gym 9635 (I believe thats
the model) THey are bottom of the line however they are FAR supriour
than Bowflex.

On Mar 21, 4:52 am, "David" <forgot...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> But if you like Bowflex, that is the bottom line.
> I guess 2 million users can't be wrong- Hide quoted text -

David - they are wrong, its garbage

On 21 Mar 2007 10:31:26 -0700, "Ken" <Omaha8_Beach@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Mar 20, 12:56 pm, loh...@3web.nettax (Achim Nolcken Lohse) wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:01:31 +1000, "David" <forgot...@yahoo.com.au>
>
>> The fact is that the Bowflex was strongly endorsed by Ellington
>> Darden, who has some serious professional credentials in the fitness
>> community, and quite a few owners have reported that this apparatus
>> worked satisfactorily for them. For many people, the Bowflex PowerPro
>> was the ONLY serious workout apparatus they could fit into their
>> living space.
>>
>
>I have a lot of respect for Ellington Darden, but if he has been
>promoting Bowflex as a good way to subsantially increase muscle mass,
>you need to consider his ties to Arthur Jones and the Nautilus
>company.
>
>
>Ken


Just to clarify - Darden reported in one of his books (the title
escapes me at the moment) on success in using the Bowflex, together
with a diet and hydration regimen, as a tool for achieving and
maintaining fitness and leanness. This, together with his early
association with the development of HIT and later SuperSlow, persuaded
me to try the Bowflex as a solution to my space problems.

The Bowflex PowerPro User's Manual, copyright 1997, that I received
with my PowerPro in 2001 also contained as an addendum "Dr. Ellington
Darden's 6 Week Fast Fat Loss - Body Leanness Program" - a 23-page
guide, consisting of PowerPro workout routines, guidelines for
hydration, diet advice and meal plans, and instructions for fat
measurement and record keeping.

The addendum is prefaced by "A Personal Guarantee From Dr. Ellington
Darden" which guarantees significant weight reduction (about 28 lbs
for men, 17 for women) in six weeks using the Bowflex three times a
week while following his dietary and hydration regime.

So Darden did not endorse the Bowflex as a superior apparatus for
building muscle mass, but as a tool, combined with diet, for producing
leanness.

Since I had already been a practicioner of HIT/SuperSlow technique for
some years, and also had my own well-developed ideas on nutrition, I
followed neither the workout plan, nor the dietary program, except for
an early nod to the hydration program (which I believe makes sense and
works, if you can stick to it). Even so, I achieved satisfactory
fitness results until I ran into the limitations of the PowerPro.
After that, all I could manage was to maintain my musculature, but not
build it further.

I did contact Darden by e-mail a couple of years on, and asked him for
his suggestions on better implementing SuperSlow protocol on the
Bowflex. The progressive resistance of the rods poses a serious
technical difficulty in integrating the Bowflex into standard SS
technique, particularly in achieving good timing, smooth turnarounds,
and especially in avoiding unloading at the bottom turnarounds.

I'm sorry to report that his response seemed unenthusiastic and less
than helpful. Still, I don't think that in any way invalidates his
earlier work.

While he may have benefitted financially from his endorsement of the
Bowflex, I believe he reported his results honestly, and that his
endorsement fo the Bowflex likely helped many thousands of people who
would otherwise not have done so attain and maintain a good level of
fitness. I'm quite certain I would never have spent close to $2000 on
this apparatus without his endorsement.

And while it didn't help me become another Arnold Schwarzenegger, it
did help me to stay reasonably fit and muscular for half a decade. And
that made the investment worthwhile for me, even though I've been
looking for something better (that I can afford!) for several years
now.


--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

On 21 Mar 2007 11:33:50 -0700, nickmorabito@hotmail.com wrote:

....
>
>Achim - The bowflex is total and complete junk, I've never seen a
>worst product on the market, it really is a piece of garbage.

>I wouldn't take one for free, in fact if you paid me to have a brand new
>one I'd decline.

Have you READ my posts? I've been using it for six years. What is your
expertise based on?

>
> Also, you only get resistance one way which is ridiculous.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's news to me. Please explain...
>
>For $300 you can get yourself a Weider Home Gym 9635 (I believe thats
>the model) THey are bottom of the line however they are FAR supriour
>than Bowflex.

Over two years ago I paid $1000 down on a $3500 leg press machine
optimized for SuperSlow.

The only reason I'm still using my Bowflex exclusively is that the
vendor/designer/builder of the ordered leg press machine has tied up
my money by stringing me along for 18 months past the promised
delivery date, and refuses to refund my advance payment (a refund I
demanded four months ago, when he missed his second delivery extension
by four months).

So trust me, I'm not in the market for Weider Home Gyms of any grade.



--

Achim
_____/)
axethetax

<nickmorabito@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174502210.883624.219540@y66g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com...
> On Mar 21, 4:52 am, "David" <forgot...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>> But if you like Bowflex, that is the bottom line.
>> I guess 2 million users can't be wrong- Hide quoted text -
>
> David - they are wrong, its garbage

I totally agree - but if Achim is happy with his machine . . . . what can I
say . . . .I mean we if all chased the same girl . . . .

>

Achim Nolcken Lohse wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:39:22 +1000, "David" <forgotwhy@yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> ...
>>>
>>> And, uh, double up on your sweats if you don't get the body armor. A
>>> nice bicycle helmet might not be a bad idea either. Do they make
>>> those with a visor?
>>>
>>
>> Achim - don't pay any attention to that Curt guy - he is upset
>> because the janitor that used to run the bldg where he works quit
>> and as a parting gesture he stole Curt's hat and relieved himself in
>> it - then stole Curt's calculator. Of course he is Chairman of the
>> Humour Committee and what that really means is that we 'humour' him.
>>
>>> --
> No problem. Good, clean humour always spices things up a bit.
>
> I try to do my homework, so although I haven't posted here for six
> years, I did download and look through some 11,000 headers IIRC in
> misc.fitness.weights (my ISP's news server co-ordinators must think
> highly of this group, because they keep three months' worth of
> messages) before posting again. So I've already had a taste of the
> Humour Committee's servings.
>
> But thanks for the heads up.

Heads up? Up who.....
>
> Achim
> _____/)
> axethetax

Achim Nolcken Lohse wrote:
[...]

re Bowflex Quality Assurance and Safety

> <snip> they haven't expressed concern
> for the safety implications of my experience.

Sweet. I'm feelin' the Bowflex loooove.

> They're shipping me a replacement rod box
> and three rods to replace those whose
> sleeves were torn in the mishap.

Yes, "They're shipping me a replacement rod box and three rods to
replace those whose sleeves were torn in the mishap." Also known as
THEY'RE ~*STILL*~ TRYING TO KILL ME!!!!!!!

[...]

> <snip> I am wearing the safety glasses
> religiously, and am now examining the
> back of the rod box, where it's anchored
> to the frame upright, for serious cracks
> before and after every exercise session.

Sounds like a wise plan or course of action, Achim.

> Achim

--
Curt

Achim Nolcken Lohse wrote:
[...]

> <snip> Good, clean humour always
> spices things up a bit.

Agreed!

> I try to do my homework, so although
> I haven't posted here for six years,

Welcome back.

> I did download and look through some
> 11,000 headers IIRC in misc.fitness.weights
> (my ISP's news server co-ordinators must
> think highly of this group, because they
> keep three months' worth of messages)
> before posting again.

Cool!

> So I've already had a taste of the Humour
> Committee's servings.

Oh.

Well, my condolences, naturally.

[...]

--
Curt

David wrote:
[...]

> Achim - don't pay any attention to
> that Curt guy -

Probably good advice there, actually. ;o)

> he is upset because the janitor that used
> to run the bldg where he works

And that David and Charles own.

> quit

However, that's NO reflection on the extremely generous financial
package offered by D & C Inc., of course.

> and as a parting gesture he stole Curt's
> hat and relieved himself in it - then

Yes, THEN! As if the "relieved himself in it" wasn't gesture enough.
Hmph!

> stole Curt's calculator.

To his credit, he left the abacus and the sundial.

> Of course he is Chairman of the Humour
> Committee

Yes, the Humour Committee, hereafter to be referred to as the "Device
Used to Offer Mean-Spirited Comments About People I Don't Like Because
That's What That Goof JWM (Whatever) Says, Right?" Committee, David.

You can use the acronym, uh, the DUTOM-SCAPIDLBTWTGJ(W)S,R? Committee.
It's simpler that way. Thanks.

> and what that really means is that
> we 'humour' him.

Like the janitor humoured me? Because that case is pending.

--
Curt

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174508443.276613.62740@b75g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
> Achim Nolcken Lohse wrote:
> [...]
>
> re Bowflex Quality Assurance and Safety
>
>> <snip> they haven't expressed concern
>> for the safety implications of my experience.
>
> Sweet. I'm feelin' the Bowflex loooove.
>
>> They're shipping me a replacement rod box
>> and three rods to replace those whose
>> sleeves were torn in the mishap.
>
> Yes, "They're shipping me a replacement rod box and three rods to
> replace those whose sleeves were torn in the mishap." Also known as
> THEY'RE ~*STILL*~ TRYING TO KILL ME!!!!!!!

Pity it is against the rules as you are the Chairman but I would like to
nominate your remark for the MHA

>
> [...]
>
>> <snip> I am wearing the safety glasses
>> religiously, and am now examining the
>> back of the rod box, where it's anchored
>> to the frame upright, for serious cracks
>> before and after every exercise session.
>
> Sounds like a wise plan or course of action, Achim.
>
>> Achim
>
> --
> Curt
>