Chin up Routine

I need to increase the number of chin ups I can do as quickly as
possible. This is my number one fitness goal above anything else. I
can currently do only one complete chin up, from a full hang to
pulling my chin just barely over the bar. Can anyone recommend a
routine to improve this?

I can devote some time both morning and night but only have access to
a chinning bar. I have no additional weight equipment, and I do not
have a training partner to assist me. I was considering doing
negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement them into a
routine or how to progess into normal reps. Any links to sites
covering this or any suggestions would be appreciated.

"Chris Melford" <cmelford@'nospam'hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bo3083tvcis3f7cvc095rbui34bon55qlj@4ax.com...
>I need to increase the number of chin ups I can do as quickly as
> possible. This is my number one fitness goal above anything else. I
> can currently do only one complete chin up, from a full hang to
> pulling my chin just barely over the bar. Can anyone recommend a
> routine to improve this?
>
> I can devote some time both morning and night but only have access to
> a chinning bar. I have no additional weight equipment, and I do not
> have a training partner to assist me. I was considering doing
> negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement them into a
> routine or how to progess into normal reps. Any links to sites
> covering this or any suggestions would be appreciated.

All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of singles
during the day. Start with one each morning and evening, and if you
have enough time in the mornings or evenings, do more than one single,
but be sure you are absolutely 100% recovered between them, which should
mean at least 5 full minutes rest, but the more rest the better, e.g.,
once every hour or two would be better. It is very important to stay
fresh, so if you're starting to feel tired, take a day off or just work
them every other day. After 2-3 weeks of training like this, take a few
days off then test your max reps, and report back on how that went.

If you want to add negatives, get yourself to the top position by using
a chair or some other means to jump up there without doing much, if any,
of a pullup, then try to lower yourself under as much control as
possible. People are almost always weakest at the extremes of the range
of motion of a pullup, so try to hold the top position for a second
before you start to lower under control, lower relatively quickly
through the middle portion, then be sure you have the bottom under as
much control as possible. If all that's too much, the work on the top
and bottom portions separately.

If you're carrying excess bodyfat, drop it and your chinning will
undoubtedly improve.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007, Steve Freides wrote:

> "Chris Melford" <cmelford@'nospam'hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bo3083tvcis3f7cvc095rbui34bon55qlj@4ax.com...
>
>> I need to increase the number of chin ups I can do as quickly as
>> possible.
>
> All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of singles
> during the day. Start with one each morning and evening, and if you
> have enough time in the mornings or evenings, do more than one single,
> but be sure you are absolutely 100% recovered between them, which should
> mean at least 5 full minutes rest, but the more rest the better, e.g.,
> once every hour or two would be better. It is very important to stay
> fresh, so if you're starting to feel tired, take a day off or just work
> them every other day. After 2-3 weeks of training like this, take a few
> days off then test your max reps, and report back on how that went.

That's really interesting. I would have thought that if you wanted to be
able to do multiple chinups in succession, you should try to do something
as close to that as possible, say doing singles with a steadily decreasing
rest time between them.

I wonder if you could MacGyver yourself some assisted chin-up capability.
A belt, a couple of metres of light, smooth rope thrown over the bar and
some weight (a few gallons of water, perhaps) might do the trick. If you
can do multiple assisted pullups, it's just a matter of reducing the
amount of assist until you can do them straight.

tom

--
The term Nihilartikel for a fictitious entry originated at the German
Wikipedia but was later identified as a hoax. -- Wikipedia

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> schreef:

>> I can devote some time both morning and night but only have access to
>> a chinning bar. I have no additional weight equipment, and I do not
>> have a training partner to assist me. I was considering doing
>> negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement them into a
>> routine or how to progess into normal reps. Any links to sites
>> covering this or any suggestions would be appreciated.

> All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of singles
> during the day.

There is *ZERO* cumulative efect of doing lots of singles performed
throughout the entire day.

If you insinst on doing lots of singles, for whatever reason, its probably
better to do singles with a 1-3 minute space between them, and then
compressed into one hour or so.

A single rep done at 22:00 has no connection WHAT_SO_EVER with a last single
done several hours before, so the training effect is reduced to one single
and ONE_SINGLE_ONLY.

> Start with one each morning and evening, and if you have enough time in
> the mornings or evenings, do more than one single, but be sure you are
> absolutely 100% recovered between them, which should mean at least 5 full
> minutes rest...

This is complete bullshit. You dont need 5 minutes to recover from a single
repetition.
If that single was around 80-90% max, its very possible to get a training
effect if you rest for 30 secs-1 minute.

> but the more rest the better, e.g., once every hour or two would be
> better.

Crap.

Complete nonsense.

The effect of two singles spaced hours apart is ZERO!

> If you're carrying excess bodyfat, drop it and your chinning will
> undoubtedly improve.

No.

The result will be less intense contractions.

--
Pete

"Chris Melford" <cmelford@'nospam'hotmail.com> schreef:

>I need to increase the number of chin ups I can do as quickly as
> possible. This is my number one fitness goal above anything else. I
> can currently do only one complete chin up, from a full hang to
> pulling my chin just barely over the bar. Can anyone recommend a
> routine to improve this?

Add weight and focus on the lower 1/2 or 2/3 of the rep.
And use straps. If you cant use weight focus on that part of the rep,
anyway.

You really dont need to get your head over the bar.
The blades retract in the first half, anyway.

Train the biceps seperate wiith high intensity. Do both regular bar curls
and hammers. Work your grip/lower arms.

> I can devote some time both morning and night but only have access to
> a chinning bar. I have no additional weight equipment, and I do not
> have a training partner to assist me. I was considering doing
> negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement them into a
> routine or how to progess into normal reps.

Do as many reps as you can within 30 minutes or so.

Then, jump up and do a slow negative.
You can also do a seperate workout for the negatives.

Beware of intense pain the next day.

--
Pete

"Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> schreef:

> That's really interesting. I would have thought that if you wanted to be
> able to do multiple chinups in succession, you should try to do something
> as close to that as possible, say doing singles with a steadily decreasing
> rest time between them.

Most of my heavy sets, if i do more than 2-3, have a decreasing rest time.

I might work my way up to 5-6 minutes, but i usually start with 2.

> I wonder if you could MacGyver yourself some assisted chin-up capability.
> A belt, a couple of metres of light, smooth rope thrown over the bar and
> some weight (a few gallons of water, perhaps) might do the trick. If you
> can do multiple assisted pullups, it's just a matter of reducing the
> amount of assist until you can do them straight.

Or you "partial" your way into them.

--
Pete

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007, Pete wrote:

> "Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> schreef:
>
>> That's really interesting. I would have thought that if you wanted to
>> be able to do multiple chinups in succession, you should try to do
>> something as close to that as possible, say doing singles with a
>> steadily decreasing rest time between them.
>
> Most of my heavy sets, if i do more than 2-3, have a decreasing rest time.

I should clarify - i meant decreasing over the course of weeks. Instead of
increasing weight or number of reps as you would usually do, because you
can't if you're doing bodyweight pullups and you can only do one to start
with.

> I might work my way up to 5-6 minutes, but i usually start with 2.

Hang on, increasing or decreasing? What?

tom

--
Formal logical proofs, and therefore programs, are *utterly
meaningless*. -- Dehnadi and Bornat

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:18:16 +0200, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
wrote:

>"Chris Melford" <cmelford@'nospam'hotmail.com> schreef:
>
>>I need to increase the number of chin ups I can do as quickly as
>> possible. This is my number one fitness goal above anything else. I
>> can currently do only one complete chin up, from a full hang to
>> pulling my chin just barely over the bar. Can anyone recommend a
>> routine to improve this?
>
>Add weight and focus on the lower 1/2 or 2/3 of the rep.
>And use straps. If you cant use weight focus on that part of the rep,
>anyway.

I can find a way to put some weight on myself; shouldn't be too hard.
>You really dont need to get your head over the bar.
>The blades retract in the first half, anyway.

So I don't need to worry about working the top part of the rep at all
when doing these partials?

>Train the biceps seperate wiith high intensity. Do both regular bar curls
>and hammers. Work your grip/lower arms.

Fortunately I've got some powerful forearms and grip, but my biceps
are definitely underpar. I'm guessing I should work the biceps after
the chin work is over, correct?

>> I can devote some time both morning and night but only have access to
>> a chinning bar. I have no additional weight equipment, and I do not
>> have a training partner to assist me. I was considering doing
>> negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement them into a
>> routine or how to progess into normal reps.
>
>Do as many reps as you can within 30 minutes or so.

Got it. About how long in general should I rest between my singles,
partials, negatives?

>Then, jump up and do a slow negative.
>You can also do a seperate workout for the negatives.

Sort of like full reps and partials one day, then negatives the next
training day? Also, about how many days a week do you think I can do
train? Initially I realize I'll have a lot of soreness, but when that
stops occuring as much, can I do these workouts more than twice a
week?

>Beware of intense pain the next day.

No pain, no gain...lol! Thanks a lot for the help.

In article <4680fcd9$0$3160$dbd4b001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> schreef:
>
> >> I can devote some time both morning and night but only have access to
> >> a chinning bar. I have no additional weight equipment, and I do not
> >> have a training partner to assist me. I was considering doing
> >> negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement them into a
> >> routine or how to progess into normal reps. Any links to sites
> >> covering this or any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> > All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of singles
> > during the day.
>
> There is *ZERO* cumulative efect of doing lots of singles performed
> throughout the entire day.
>
> If you insinst on doing lots of singles, for whatever reason, its probably
> better to do singles with a 1-3 minute space between them, and then
> compressed into one hour or so.
>
> A single rep done at 22:00 has no connection WHAT_SO_EVER with a last single
> done several hours before, so the training effect is reduced to one single
> and ONE_SINGLE_ONLY.
>
> > Start with one each morning and evening, and if you have enough time in
> > the mornings or evenings, do more than one single, but be sure you are
> > absolutely 100% recovered between them, which should mean at least 5 full
> > minutes rest...
>
> This is complete bullshit. You dont need 5 minutes to recover from a single
> repetition.
> If that single was around 80-90% max, its very possible to get a training
> effect if you rest for 30 secs-1 minute.
>
> > but the more rest the better, e.g., once every hour or two would be
> > better.
>
> Crap.
>
> Complete nonsense.
>
> The effect of two singles spaced hours apart is ZERO!

Not really. If the intent is to do singles and say, work up to doing a
single with 200# additional weight it is a good idea.

But once again, specificity roolz. If the idea is to do as many as you
can, than do as many as you can. Reducing the resistance isn't a bad
idea (adding bungees to give a boost at the bottom).

So you could do singles with 30 seconds rest for 5 minutes. Than do 6-8
sets with bungees of reps. Twice a day is fine.

--
Keith

"Tom Anderson" <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.0706261126560.584@urchin.earth. li...
> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007, Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> "Chris Melford" <cmelford@'nospam'hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:bo3083tvcis3f7cvc095rbui34bon55qlj@4ax.com...
>>
>>> I need to increase the number of chin ups I can do as quickly as
>>> possible.
>>
>> All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of
>> singles during the day. Start with one each morning and evening, and
>> if you have enough time in the mornings or evenings, do more than one
>> single, but be sure you are absolutely 100% recovered between them,
>> which should mean at least 5 full minutes rest, but the more rest the
>> better, e.g., once every hour or two would be better. It is very
>> important to stay fresh, so if you're starting to feel tired, take a
>> day off or just work them every other day. After 2-3 weeks of
>> training like this, take a few days off then test your max reps, and
>> report back on how that went.
>
> That's really interesting. I would have thought that if you wanted to
> be able to do multiple chinups in succession, you should try to do
> something as close to that as possible, say doing singles with a
> steadily decreasing rest time between them.

For strength, high volume is key, and if the movement is near-limit in
terms of difficulty, the trainee simply won't be able to perform
multiple singles in a single session.

> I wonder if you could MacGyver yourself some assisted chin-up
> capability. A belt, a couple of metres of light, smooth rope thrown
> over the bar and some weight (a few gallons of water, perhaps) might
> do the trick. If you can do multiple assisted pullups, it's just a
> matter of reducing the amount of assist until you can do them
> straight.

From what I've been hearing lately, the number of people who actually
turn an assisted chinup into a real one is pretty low. I'm not saying
it's impossible for it to work, just that it seems to work better on
paper. I agree with your ideas about how to do it, though - the more
typically ways you hear of assisted pullups/chinups being done are on a
machine, which is the least useful, IMO, and using bands, which give
assistance at the bottom but not at the top, and most people, while
weaker at both ends of the ROM, are weakest at the top. (Think about
that chin/pullup you "almost" got - did you "almost" but not quite get
off the bottom, or did you "almost" but not quite get your chin over the
bar.) If going for multiple reps, I think multiple negatives without
assistance is better.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

> tom
>
> --
> The term Nihilartikel for a fictitious entry originated at the German
> Wikipedia but was later identified as a hoax. -- Wikipedia

In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0706261126560.584@urchin.earth.li >,
Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007, Steve Freides wrote:
>
> > "Chris Melford" <cmelford@'nospam'hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:bo3083tvcis3f7cvc095rbui34bon55qlj@4ax.com...
> >
> >> I need to increase the number of chin ups I can do as quickly as
> >> possible.
> >
> > All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of singles
> > during the day. Start with one each morning and evening, and if you
> > have enough time in the mornings or evenings, do more than one single,
> > but be sure you are absolutely 100% recovered between them, which should
> > mean at least 5 full minutes rest, but the more rest the better, e.g.,
> > once every hour or two would be better. It is very important to stay
> > fresh, so if you're starting to feel tired, take a day off or just work
> > them every other day. After 2-3 weeks of training like this, take a few
> > days off then test your max reps, and report back on how that went.
>
> That's really interesting. I would have thought that if you wanted to be
> able to do multiple chinups in succession, you should try to do something
> as close to that as possible, say doing singles with a steadily decreasing
> rest time between them.
>
> I wonder if you could MacGyver yourself some assisted chin-up capability.
> A belt, a couple of metres of light, smooth rope thrown over the bar and
> some weight (a few gallons of water, perhaps) might do the trick. If you
> can do multiple assisted pullups, it's just a matter of reducing the
> amount of assist until you can do them straight.
>
> tom

Easy. Bungee cords tied into a loop and hung from the bar. Make about a
4.5' circuit (9 feet of bungee) and make two of them.

--
Keith

"Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:khobman800-69AB6E.07493226062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> In article <4680fcd9$0$3160$dbd4b001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
> "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>
>> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> schreef:
>>
>> >> I can devote some time both morning and night but only have access
>> >> to
>> >> a chinning bar. I have no additional weight equipment, and I do
>> >> not
>> >> have a training partner to assist me. I was considering doing
>> >> negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement them into a
>> >> routine or how to progess into normal reps. Any links to sites
>> >> covering this or any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>
>> > All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of
>> > singles
>> > during the day.
>>
>> There is *ZERO* cumulative efect of doing lots of singles performed
>> throughout the entire day.
>>
>> If you insinst on doing lots of singles, for whatever reason, its
>> probably
>> better to do singles with a 1-3 minute space between them, and then
>> compressed into one hour or so.
>>
>> A single rep done at 22:00 has no connection WHAT_SO_EVER with a last
>> single
>> done several hours before, so the training effect is reduced to one
>> single
>> and ONE_SINGLE_ONLY.
>>
>> > Start with one each morning and evening, and if you have enough
>> > time in
>> > the mornings or evenings, do more than one single, but be sure you
>> > are
>> > absolutely 100% recovered between them, which should mean at least
>> > 5 full
>> > minutes rest...
>>
>> This is complete bullshit. You dont need 5 minutes to recover from a
>> single
>> repetition.
>> If that single was around 80-90% max, its very possible to get a
>> training
>> effect if you rest for 30 secs-1 minute.
>>
>> > but the more rest the better, e.g., once every hour or two would be
>> > better.
>>
>> Crap.
>>
>> Complete nonsense.
>>
>> The effect of two singles spaced hours apart is ZERO!
>
> Not really. If the intent is to do singles and say, work up to doing a
> single with 200# additional weight it is a good idea.
>
> But once again, specificity roolz. If the idea is to do as many as you
> can, than do as many as you can. Reducing the resistance isn't a bad
> idea (adding bungees to give a boost at the bottom).
>
> So you could do singles with 30 seconds rest for 5 minutes. Than do
> 6-8
> sets with bungees of reps. Twice a day is fine.

Keith, how is a guy who says, "I can currently do only one complete chin
up, from a full hang to
pulling my chin just barely over the bar" going to do singles with 30
seconds rest? He'll get the first one and that's it. We're talking,
unless I've completely misunderstood the original message, about a guy
for whom a single chinup is a 95-100% effort. When was the last time
you did 95-100% efforts on 30 seconds rest?

If that is the case, please take a bit of advice from someone who trains
a lot with fixed resistances, which is essentially what a bodyweight
chinup is - increase the training volume of well-performed reps
(practicing crappy reps just makes you good at crappy reps) in the only
way possible, on full rests. Training volume with a heavy weight is a
better predictor than just about anything else in a situation like this
(and in many other situations as well), and the only way to achieve it
with a near-limit effort is to spread the efforts out as much as
possible. For the record, this is how I progressed with a 24 kg
kettlebell strict press when I first got it - I did singles 2, 3, or
more times per day for a week or three, rested a few days, tested and
found I could get a triple, so I went back to a more traditional program
of doing the lift in more or less normal sets of singles and doubles
within a single workout and continued to build up from there.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> --
> Keith

"Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:khobman800-E3ECA7.07461926062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0706261126560.584@urchin.earth.li >,
> Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007, Steve Freides wrote:
>>
>> > "Chris Melford" <cmelford@'nospam'hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:bo3083tvcis3f7cvc095rbui34bon55qlj@4ax.com...
>> >
>> >> I need to increase the number of chin ups I can do as quickly as
>> >> possible.
>> >
>> > All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of
>> > singles
>> > during the day. Start with one each morning and evening, and if you
>> > have enough time in the mornings or evenings, do more than one single,
>> > but be sure you are absolutely 100% recovered between them, which
>> > should
>> > mean at least 5 full minutes rest, but the more rest the better, e.g.,
>> > once every hour or two would be better. It is very important to stay
>> > fresh, so if you're starting to feel tired, take a day off or just work
>> > them every other day. After 2-3 weeks of training like this, take a
>> > few
>> > days off then test your max reps, and report back on how that went.
>>
>> That's really interesting. I would have thought that if you wanted to be
>> able to do multiple chinups in succession, you should try to do something
>> as close to that as possible, say doing singles with a steadily
>> decreasing
>> rest time between them.
>>
>> I wonder if you could MacGyver yourself some assisted chin-up capability.
>> A belt, a couple of metres of light, smooth rope thrown over the bar and
>> some weight (a few gallons of water, perhaps) might do the trick. If you
>> can do multiple assisted pullups, it's just a matter of reducing the
>> amount of assist until you can do them straight.
>>
>> tom
>
> Easy. Bungee cords tied into a loop and hung from the bar. Make about a
> 4.5' circuit (9 feet of bungee) and make two of them.
>
> --
> Keith

Which you would then step into? Sounds like a rather painful proposition if
they separate at full extension!

In article <5ecremF38j8prU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> "Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:khobman800-69AB6E.07493226062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> > In article <4680fcd9$0$3160$dbd4b001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
> > "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> >
> >> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> schreef:
> >>
> >> >> I can devote some time both morning and night but only have access
> >> >> to
> >> >> a chinning bar. I have no additional weight equipment, and I do
> >> >> not
> >> >> have a training partner to assist me. I was considering doing
> >> >> negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement them into a
> >> >> routine or how to progess into normal reps. Any links to sites
> >> >> covering this or any suggestions would be appreciated.
> >>
> >> > All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of
> >> > singles
> >> > during the day.
> >>
> >> There is *ZERO* cumulative efect of doing lots of singles performed
> >> throughout the entire day.
> >>
> >> If you insinst on doing lots of singles, for whatever reason, its
> >> probably
> >> better to do singles with a 1-3 minute space between them, and then
> >> compressed into one hour or so.
> >>
> >> A single rep done at 22:00 has no connection WHAT_SO_EVER with a last
> >> single
> >> done several hours before, so the training effect is reduced to one
> >> single
> >> and ONE_SINGLE_ONLY.
> >>
> >> > Start with one each morning and evening, and if you have enough
> >> > time in
> >> > the mornings or evenings, do more than one single, but be sure you
> >> > are
> >> > absolutely 100% recovered between them, which should mean at least
> >> > 5 full
> >> > minutes rest...
> >>
> >> This is complete bullshit. You dont need 5 minutes to recover from a
> >> single
> >> repetition.
> >> If that single was around 80-90% max, its very possible to get a
> >> training
> >> effect if you rest for 30 secs-1 minute.
> >>
> >> > but the more rest the better, e.g., once every hour or two would be
> >> > better.
> >>
> >> Crap.
> >>
> >> Complete nonsense.
> >>
> >> The effect of two singles spaced hours apart is ZERO!
> >
> > Not really. If the intent is to do singles and say, work up to doing a
> > single with 200# additional weight it is a good idea.
> >
> > But once again, specificity roolz. If the idea is to do as many as you
> > can, than do as many as you can. Reducing the resistance isn't a bad
> > idea (adding bungees to give a boost at the bottom).
> >
> > So you could do singles with 30 seconds rest for 5 minutes. Than do
> > 6-8
> > sets with bungees of reps. Twice a day is fine.
>
> Keith, how is a guy who says, "I can currently do only one complete chin
> up, from a full hang to
> pulling my chin just barely over the bar" going to do singles with 30
> seconds rest? He'll get the first one and that's it. We're talking,
> unless I've completely misunderstood the original message, about a guy
> for whom a single chinup is a 95-100% effort. When was the last time
> you did 95-100% efforts on 30 seconds rest?
>
> If that is the case, please take a bit of advice from someone who trains
> a lot with fixed resistances, which is essentially what a bodyweight
> chinup is - increase the training volume of well-performed reps
> (practicing crappy reps just makes you good at crappy reps) in the only
> way possible, on full rests. Training volume with a heavy weight is a
> better predictor than just about anything else in a situation like this
> (and in many other situations as well), and the only way to achieve it
> with a near-limit effort is to spread the efforts out as much as
> possible. For the record, this is how I progressed with a 24 kg
> kettlebell strict press when I first got it - I did singles 2, 3, or
> more times per day for a week or three, rested a few days, tested and
> found I could get a triple, so I went back to a more traditional program
> of doing the lift in more or less normal sets of singles and doubles
> within a single workout and continued to build up from there.

I was assuming he was closer to 85-90. Even so, he will recover 97% of
his strength in 10 seconds or so and his time under tension is low. IF
he can't do a full rep do as much as he can without 'grinding'.

I think it is possible, especially as he will progress quickly in terms
of skill learning which will make the reps possible.

--
Keith

In article <oacgi.24$TP.13@newsfe12.lga>,
"ATP*" <waxwingslain@azurepane.com> wrote:

> "Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:khobman800-E3ECA7.07461926062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> > In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0706261126560.584@urchin.earth.li >,
> > Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007, Steve Freides wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Chris Melford" <cmelford@'nospam'hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:bo3083tvcis3f7cvc095rbui34bon55qlj@4ax.com...
> >> >
> >> >> I need to increase the number of chin ups I can do as quickly as
> >> >> possible.
> >> >
> >> > All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of
> >> > singles
> >> > during the day. Start with one each morning and evening, and if you
> >> > have enough time in the mornings or evenings, do more than one single,
> >> > but be sure you are absolutely 100% recovered between them, which
> >> > should
> >> > mean at least 5 full minutes rest, but the more rest the better, e.g.,
> >> > once every hour or two would be better. It is very important to stay
> >> > fresh, so if you're starting to feel tired, take a day off or just work
> >> > them every other day. After 2-3 weeks of training like this, take a
> >> > few
> >> > days off then test your max reps, and report back on how that went.
> >>
> >> That's really interesting. I would have thought that if you wanted to be
> >> able to do multiple chinups in succession, you should try to do something
> >> as close to that as possible, say doing singles with a steadily
> >> decreasing
> >> rest time between them.
> >>
> >> I wonder if you could MacGyver yourself some assisted chin-up capability.
> >> A belt, a couple of metres of light, smooth rope thrown over the bar and
> >> some weight (a few gallons of water, perhaps) might do the trick. If you
> >> can do multiple assisted pullups, it's just a matter of reducing the
> >> amount of assist until you can do them straight.
> >>
> >> tom
> >
> > Easy. Bungee cords tied into a loop and hung from the bar. Make about a
> > 4.5' circuit (9 feet of bungee) and make two of them.
> >
> > --
> > Keith
>
> Which you would then step into? Sounds like a rather painful proposition if
> they separate at full extension!
>
>

They don't. Tie 'em together using a decent knot. I use mine for box
squats and other exercises instead of bands.

--
Keith

I couldn't help but chime in here, as I have actually been in a
similar situation to the original poster.

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> writes:

> "Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:khobman800-69AB6E.07493226062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
>> In article <4680fcd9$0$3160$dbd4b001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
>> "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> schreef:
>>>
>>> >> I can devote some time both morning and night but only have
>>> >> access to a chinning bar. I have no additional weight
>>> >> equipment, and I do not have a training partner to assist me.
>>> >> I was considering doing negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how
>>> >> to implement them into a routine or how to progess into normal
>>> >> reps. Any links to sites covering this or any suggestions
>>> >> would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> > All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of
>>> > singles during the day.
>>>
>>> There is *ZERO* cumulative efect of doing lots of singles
>>> performed throughout the entire day.

No, that's not true. When one pullup was basically a maximal lift for
me doing singles throughout the day definitely helped me work up to
longer sets.

>>> If you insinst on doing lots of singles, for whatever reason, its
>>> probably better to do singles with a 1-3 minute space between
>>> them, and then compressed into one hour or so.
>>>
>>> A single rep done at 22:00 has no connection WHAT_SO_EVER with a
>>> last single done several hours before, so the training effect is
>>> reduced to one single and ONE_SINGLE_ONLY.

You need to try and do 10 heavy singles spread over an entire day
sometime and then see if you still believe that.

Seriously.

>>> > Start with one each morning and evening, and if you have enough
>>> > time in the mornings or evenings, do more than one single, but
>>> > be sure you are absolutely 100% recovered between them, which
>>> > should mean at least 5 full minutes rest...
>>>
>>> This is complete bullshit. You dont need 5 minutes to recover from
>>> a single repetition. If that single was around 80-90% max, its
>>> very possible to get a training effect if you rest for 30 secs-1
>>> minute.

Yes, and if that single was a near PR. Say 95% to 100% max? Will 1
minute be enough rest to allow you to repeat? Of course not.

>>> > but the more rest the better, e.g., once every hour or two would
>>> > be better.
>>>
>>> Crap.
>>>
>>> Complete nonsense.
>>>
>>> The effect of two singles spaced hours apart is ZERO!

Says you.

>> Not really. If the intent is to do singles and say, work up to
>> doing a single with 200# additional weight it is a good idea.
>>
>> But once again, specificity roolz. If the idea is to do as many as
>> you can, than do as many as you can. Reducing the resistance isn't
>> a bad idea (adding bungees to give a boost at the bottom).
>>
>> So you could do singles with 30 seconds rest for 5 minutes. Than do
>> 6-8 sets with bungees of reps. Twice a day is fine.
>
> Keith, how is a guy who says, "I can currently do only one complete
> chin up, from a full hang to pulling my chin just barely over the
> bar" going to do singles with 30 seconds rest? He'll get the first
> one and that's it. We're talking, unless I've completely
> misunderstood the original message, about a guy for whom a single
> chinup is a 95-100% effort. When was the last time you did 95-100%
> efforts on 30 seconds rest?

Never.

> If that is the case, please take a bit of advice from someone who trains
> a lot with fixed resistances, which is essentially what a bodyweight
> chinup is - increase the training volume of well-performed reps
> (practicing crappy reps just makes you good at crappy reps) in the only
> way possible, on full rests. Training volume with a heavy weight is a
> better predictor than just about anything else in a situation like this
> (and in many other situations as well), and the only way to achieve it
> with a near-limit effort is to spread the efforts out as much as
> possible. For the record, this is how I progressed with a 24 kg
> kettlebell strict press when I first got it - I did singles 2, 3, or
> more times per day for a week or three, rested a few days, tested and
> found I could get a triple, so I went back to a more traditional program
> of doing the lift in more or less normal sets of singles and doubles
> within a single workout and continued to build up from there.

This is exactly right. You can talk about hooking up your bungie
cords, doing negatives, and whatever else, but when it comes to adding
reps to pullups Steve's method is going to work with far less effort.

I would add that the technique actually continues to work for some
time after you can do doubles and triples of the weight. Instead of
doing lots of singles spread throughout the day you simply replace the
singles with sets of doubles and later triples.

Jason

"Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:khobman800-1233F7.12351326062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> In article <oacgi.24$TP.13@newsfe12.lga>,
> "ATP*" <waxwingslain@azurepane.com> wrote:
>
>> "Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:khobman800-E3ECA7.07461926062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
>> > In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0706261126560.584@urchin.earth.li >,
>> > Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007, Steve Freides wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "Chris Melford" <cmelford@'nospam'hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> > news:bo3083tvcis3f7cvc095rbui34bon55qlj@4ax.com...
>> >> >
>> >> >> I need to increase the number of chin ups I can do as quickly as
>> >> >> possible.
>> >> >
>> >> > All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of
>> >> > singles
>> >> > during the day. Start with one each morning and evening, and if you
>> >> > have enough time in the mornings or evenings, do more than one
>> >> > single,
>> >> > but be sure you are absolutely 100% recovered between them, which
>> >> > should
>> >> > mean at least 5 full minutes rest, but the more rest the better,
>> >> > e.g.,
>> >> > once every hour or two would be better. It is very important to
>> >> > stay
>> >> > fresh, so if you're starting to feel tired, take a day off or just
>> >> > work
>> >> > them every other day. After 2-3 weeks of training like this, take a
>> >> > few
>> >> > days off then test your max reps, and report back on how that went.
>> >>
>> >> That's really interesting. I would have thought that if you wanted to
>> >> be
>> >> able to do multiple chinups in succession, you should try to do
>> >> something
>> >> as close to that as possible, say doing singles with a steadily
>> >> decreasing
>> >> rest time between them.
>> >>
>> >> I wonder if you could MacGyver yourself some assisted chin-up
>> >> capability.
>> >> A belt, a couple of metres of light, smooth rope thrown over the bar
>> >> and
>> >> some weight (a few gallons of water, perhaps) might do the trick. If
>> >> you
>> >> can do multiple assisted pullups, it's just a matter of reducing the
>> >> amount of assist until you can do them straight.
>> >>
>> >> tom
>> >
>> > Easy. Bungee cords tied into a loop and hung from the bar. Make about a
>> > 4.5' circuit (9 feet of bungee) and make two of them.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Keith
>>
>> Which you would then step into? Sounds like a rather painful proposition
>> if
>> they separate at full extension!
>>
>>
>
> They don't. Tie 'em together using a decent knot. I use mine for box
> squats and other exercises instead of bands.
>
> --
> Keith

I done a few things with bands and chins. Here's been my experience with
what works and what doesn't.

Bands around the bar that you step into with your feet don't work well
unless there is very little tension on them - you end up swinging all over
the place. Maybe heavier people don't have as much an issue, but I imagine
it's the ratio of band tension to bodyweight that matters. Even with light
bands, I found it too cumbersome to use, as did several other people I let
try the setup.

Bands for assistance can work nicely when configured sort of like a climbers
harness - you want to put a leg through each, which I know is harder than
just putting a foot through, but then you let the band come up until it sits
at the top of your leg - you're essentially sitting in the bands, one per
butt cheek. You're also reducing the difference between the band tension at
the top and bottom as compared to bands you stand on, which may or may not
be a good thing depending on your exact wants.

Bands used the _other_ way can be nice for building strength at the top -
attach the bands to the floor, put them over your shoulders, and have at it.
I did a set of these for the first time on Sunday, with a couple of blue
bands that I think were JumpStretch brand but I don't own any blue ones so
I'm not 100% sure. I know I'm weakest at the very top, so I'm planning on
trying this again. If you're using a standalone bar - I was, a TAPS bar -
then it's easy to anchor them, otherwise tie them around a weight, a
dumbbell or kettlebell on either side of the bar.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:khobman800-9975B7.12341526062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> In article <5ecremF38j8prU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>> "Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:khobman800-69AB6E.07493226062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
>> > In article <4680fcd9$0$3160$dbd4b001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
>> > "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> schreef:
>> >>
>> >> >> I can devote some time both morning and night but only have access
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> a chinning bar. I have no additional weight equipment, and I do
>> >> >> not
>> >> >> have a training partner to assist me. I was considering doing
>> >> >> negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement them into a
>> >> >> routine or how to progess into normal reps. Any links to sites
>> >> >> covering this or any suggestions would be appreciated.
>> >>
>> >> > All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of
>> >> > singles
>> >> > during the day.
>> >>
>> >> There is *ZERO* cumulative efect of doing lots of singles performed
>> >> throughout the entire day.
>> >>
>> >> If you insinst on doing lots of singles, for whatever reason, its
>> >> probably
>> >> better to do singles with a 1-3 minute space between them, and then
>> >> compressed into one hour or so.
>> >>
>> >> A single rep done at 22:00 has no connection WHAT_SO_EVER with a last
>> >> single
>> >> done several hours before, so the training effect is reduced to one
>> >> single
>> >> and ONE_SINGLE_ONLY.
>> >>
>> >> > Start with one each morning and evening, and if you have enough
>> >> > time in
>> >> > the mornings or evenings, do more than one single, but be sure you
>> >> > are
>> >> > absolutely 100% recovered between them, which should mean at least
>> >> > 5 full
>> >> > minutes rest...
>> >>
>> >> This is complete bullshit. You dont need 5 minutes to recover from a
>> >> single
>> >> repetition.
>> >> If that single was around 80-90% max, its very possible to get a
>> >> training
>> >> effect if you rest for 30 secs-1 minute.
>> >>
>> >> > but the more rest the better, e.g., once every hour or two would be
>> >> > better.
>> >>
>> >> Crap.
>> >>
>> >> Complete nonsense.
>> >>
>> >> The effect of two singles spaced hours apart is ZERO!
>> >
>> > Not really. If the intent is to do singles and say, work up to doing a
>> > single with 200# additional weight it is a good idea.
>> >
>> > But once again, specificity roolz. If the idea is to do as many as you
>> > can, than do as many as you can. Reducing the resistance isn't a bad
>> > idea (adding bungees to give a boost at the bottom).
>> >
>> > So you could do singles with 30 seconds rest for 5 minutes. Than do
>> > 6-8
>> > sets with bungees of reps. Twice a day is fine.
>>
>> Keith, how is a guy who says, "I can currently do only one complete chin
>> up, from a full hang to
>> pulling my chin just barely over the bar" going to do singles with 30
>> seconds rest? He'll get the first one and that's it. We're talking,
>> unless I've completely misunderstood the original message, about a guy
>> for whom a single chinup is a 95-100% effort. When was the last time
>> you did 95-100% efforts on 30 seconds rest?
>>
>> If that is the case, please take a bit of advice from someone who trains
>> a lot with fixed resistances, which is essentially what a bodyweight
>> chinup is - increase the training volume of well-performed reps
>> (practicing crappy reps just makes you good at crappy reps) in the only
>> way possible, on full rests. Training volume with a heavy weight is a
>> better predictor than just about anything else in a situation like this
>> (and in many other situations as well), and the only way to achieve it
>> with a near-limit effort is to spread the efforts out as much as
>> possible. For the record, this is how I progressed with a 24 kg
>> kettlebell strict press when I first got it - I did singles 2, 3, or
>> more times per day for a week or three, rested a few days, tested and
>> found I could get a triple, so I went back to a more traditional program
>> of doing the lift in more or less normal sets of singles and doubles
>> within a single workout and continued to build up from there.
>
> I was assuming he was closer to 85-90. Even so, he will recover 97% of
> his strength in 10 seconds or so and his time under tension is low. IF
> he can't do a full rep do as much as he can without 'grinding'.

Anytime the response includes the words "just barely", I tend to think of it
as a near-limit effort. Best thing here would be for our original poster to
try 1 rep, wait 30 seconds, and try another and report back on what happens.
There is, as you well know, a very big difference in terms of rest periods,
between 85% and 97%. And I would still like to see you pull a 1RM then
another max effort in 10 seconds after you finish and tell me you got 97% of
what you pulled the first time! Be my guest and pick something where TUT is
low.

> I think it is possible, especially as he will progress quickly in terms
> of skill learning which will make the reps possible.

Best case for skill learning, IMHO, is 100% recovery between efforts. The
old saying rings true - don't practice until you get it perfect, practice
perfection. My suggestion was 2-3 weeks of GTG-style training followed by a
test - it could certainly happen within a shorter time but I think a couple
of weeks is probably best.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


>
> --
> Keith

In article <5ed8hpF37ukibU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> "Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:khobman800-9975B7.12341526062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> > In article <5ecremF38j8prU1@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:khobman800-69AB6E.07493226062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> >> > In article <4680fcd9$0$3160$dbd4b001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
> >> > "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> schreef:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> I can devote some time both morning and night but only have access
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> a chinning bar. I have no additional weight equipment, and I do
> >> >> >> not
> >> >> >> have a training partner to assist me. I was considering doing
> >> >> >> negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement them into a
> >> >> >> routine or how to progess into normal reps. Any links to sites
> >> >> >> covering this or any suggestions would be appreciated.
> >> >>
> >> >> > All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of
> >> >> > singles
> >> >> > during the day.
> >> >>
> >> >> There is *ZERO* cumulative efect of doing lots of singles performed
> >> >> throughout the entire day.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you insinst on doing lots of singles, for whatever reason, its
> >> >> probably
> >> >> better to do singles with a 1-3 minute space between them, and then
> >> >> compressed into one hour or so.
> >> >>
> >> >> A single rep done at 22:00 has no connection WHAT_SO_EVER with a last
> >> >> single
> >> >> done several hours before, so the training effect is reduced to one
> >> >> single
> >> >> and ONE_SINGLE_ONLY.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Start with one each morning and evening, and if you have enough
> >> >> > time in
> >> >> > the mornings or evenings, do more than one single, but be sure you
> >> >> > are
> >> >> > absolutely 100% recovered between them, which should mean at least
> >> >> > 5 full
> >> >> > minutes rest...
> >> >>
> >> >> This is complete bullshit. You dont need 5 minutes to recover from a
> >> >> single
> >> >> repetition.
> >> >> If that single was around 80-90% max, its very possible to get a
> >> >> training
> >> >> effect if you rest for 30 secs-1 minute.
> >> >>
> >> >> > but the more rest the better, e.g., once every hour or two would be
> >> >> > better.
> >> >>
> >> >> Crap.
> >> >>
> >> >> Complete nonsense.
> >> >>
> >> >> The effect of two singles spaced hours apart is ZERO!
> >> >
> >> > Not really. If the intent is to do singles and say, work up to doing a
> >> > single with 200# additional weight it is a good idea.
> >> >
> >> > But once again, specificity roolz. If the idea is to do as many as you
> >> > can, than do as many as you can. Reducing the resistance isn't a bad
> >> > idea (adding bungees to give a boost at the bottom).
> >> >
> >> > So you could do singles with 30 seconds rest for 5 minutes. Than do
> >> > 6-8
> >> > sets with bungees of reps. Twice a day is fine.
> >>
> >> Keith, how is a guy who says, "I can currently do only one complete chin
> >> up, from a full hang to
> >> pulling my chin just barely over the bar" going to do singles with 30
> >> seconds rest? He'll get the first one and that's it. We're talking,
> >> unless I've completely misunderstood the original message, about a guy
> >> for whom a single chinup is a 95-100% effort. When was the last time
> >> you did 95-100% efforts on 30 seconds rest?
> >>
> >> If that is the case, please take a bit of advice from someone who trains
> >> a lot with fixed resistances, which is essentially what a bodyweight
> >> chinup is - increase the training volume of well-performed reps
> >> (practicing crappy reps just makes you good at crappy reps) in the only
> >> way possible, on full rests. Training volume with a heavy weight is a
> >> better predictor than just about anything else in a situation like this
> >> (and in many other situations as well), and the only way to achieve it
> >> with a near-limit effort is to spread the efforts out as much as
> >> possible. For the record, this is how I progressed with a 24 kg
> >> kettlebell strict press when I first got it - I did singles 2, 3, or
> >> more times per day for a week or three, rested a few days, tested and
> >> found I could get a triple, so I went back to a more traditional program
> >> of doing the lift in more or less normal sets of singles and doubles
> >> within a single workout and continued to build up from there.
> >
> > I was assuming he was closer to 85-90. Even so, he will recover 97% of
> > his strength in 10 seconds or so and his time under tension is low. IF
> > he can't do a full rep do as much as he can without 'grinding'.
>
> Anytime the response includes the words "just barely", I tend to think of it
> as a near-limit effort. Best thing here would be for our original poster to
> try 1 rep, wait 30 seconds, and try another and report back on what happens.
> There is, as you well know, a very big difference in terms of rest periods,
> between 85% and 97%. And I would still like to see you pull a 1RM then
> another max effort in 10 seconds after you finish and tell me you got 97% of
> what you pulled the first time! Be my guest and pick something where TUT is
> low.

I do it all the time with 30-45 seconds rest. I do deadlift singles this
way with up to 95%. I do cleans and snatches with even less rest than
30-45 seconds. Is it a killer? Oh yeah! But I often don't have a lot of
time to train.

10 seconds would be pushing it. 30 seconds may be, but I know it is
possible, especially if you don't so the eccentric portion of the lift.

But I invite you to give it a try. I didn't say it would be easy, did I?
I think you are going to get a whole new feeling!

:^)

--
Keith

"Jason Earl" <jearl@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:87hcouk0a3.fsf@workhorse.earlhome...
>
> I couldn't help but chime in here, as I have actually been in a
> similar situation to the original poster.
>
> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> writes:
>
>> "Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:khobman800-69AB6E.07493226062007@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
>>> In article <4680fcd9$0$3160$dbd4b001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
>>> "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> schreef:
>>>>
>>>> >> I can devote some time both morning and night but only have
>>>> >> access to a chinning bar. I have no additional weight
>>>> >> equipment, and I do not have a training partner to assist me.
>>>> >> I was considering doing negatives, but I'm not sure exactly how
>>>> >> to implement them into a routine or how to progess into normal
>>>> >> reps. Any links to sites covering this or any suggestions
>>>> >> would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> > All your thoughts are good, IMHO. Gradually work up to a lot of
>>>> > singles during the day.
>>>>
>>>> There is *ZERO* cumulative efect of doing lots of singles
>>>> performed throughout the entire day.
>
> No, that's not true. When one pullup was basically a maximal lift for
> me doing singles throughout the day definitely helped me work up to
> longer sets.
>
>>>> If you insinst on doing lots of singles, for whatever reason, its
>>>> probably better to do singles with a 1-3 minute space between
>>>> them, and then compressed into one hour or so.
>>>>
>>>> A single rep done at 22:00 has no connection WHAT_SO_EVER with a
>>>> last single done several hours before, so the training effect is
>>>> reduced to one single and ONE_SINGLE_ONLY.
>
> You need to try and do 10 heavy singles spread over an entire day
> sometime and then see if you still believe that.
>
> Seriously.
>
>>>> > Start with one each morning and evening, and if you have enough
>>>> > time in the mornings or evenings, do more than one single, but
>>>> > be sure you are absolutely 100% recovered between them, which
>>>> > should mean at least 5 full minutes rest...
>>>>
>>>> This is complete bullshit. You dont need 5 minutes to recover from
>>>> a single repetition. If that single was around 80-90% max, its
>>>> very possible to get a training effect if you rest for 30 secs-1
>>>> minute.
>
> Yes, and if that single was a near PR. Say 95% to 100% max? Will 1
> minute be enough rest to allow you to repeat? Of course not.
>
>>>> > but the more rest the better, e.g., once every hour or two would
>>>> > be better.
>>>>
>>>> Crap.
>>>>
>>>> Complete nonsense.
>>>>
>>>> The effect of two singles spaced hours apart is ZERO!
>
> Says you.
>
>>> Not really. If the intent is to do singles and say, work up to
>>> doing a single with 200# additional weight it is a good idea.
>>>
>>> But once again, specificity roolz. If the idea is to do as many as
>>> you can, than do as many as you can. Reducing the resistance isn't
>>> a bad idea (adding bungees to give a boost at the bottom).
>>>
>>> So you could do singles with 30 seconds rest for 5 minutes. Than do
>>> 6-8 sets with bungees of reps. Twice a day is fine.
>>
>> Keith, how is a guy who says, "I can currently do only one complete
>> chin up, from a full hang to pulling my chin just barely over the
>> bar" going to do singles with 30 seconds rest? He'll get the first
>> one and that's it. We're talking, unless I've completely
>> misunderstood the original message, about a guy for whom a single
>> chinup is a 95-100% effort. When was the last time you did 95-100%
>> efforts on 30 seconds rest?
>
> Never.
>
>> If that is the case, please take a bit of advice from someone who trains
>> a lot with fixed resistances, which is essentially what a bodyweight
>> chinup is - increase the training volume of well-performed reps
>> (practicing crappy reps just makes you good at crappy reps) in the only
>> way possible, on full rests. Training volume with a heavy weight is a
>> better predictor than just about anything else in a situation like this
>> (and in many other situations as well), and the only way to achieve it
>> with a near-limit effort is to spread the efforts out as much as
>> possible. For the record, this is how I progressed with a 24 kg
>> kettlebell strict press when I first got it - I did singles 2, 3, or
>> more times per day for a week or three, rested a few days, tested and
>> found I could get a triple, so I went back to a more traditional program
>> of doing the lift in more or less normal sets of singles and doubles
>> within a single workout and continued to build up from there.
>
> This is exactly right. You can talk about hooking up your bungie
> cords, doing negatives, and whatever else, but when it comes to adding
> reps to pullups Steve's method is going to work with far less effort.
>
> I would add that the technique actually continues to work for some
> time after you can do doubles and triples of the weight. Instead of
> doing lots of singles spread throughout the day you simply replace the
> singles with sets of doubles and later triples.

The technique works with even more reps as well, e.g., people use
approximately 50% of their max reps in GTG fashion to increase max pullup
reps all the time. Once you get to a certain point, you need to start doing
longer sets, maybe adding weighted work, and just generally going about it
differently, but for up to around 20 reps, it can be a solid strategy.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Here are some tips you can use to slowly build your chin-up skills.

If you have one of those barbell-on-rails devices, or you can lower
the bar somehow, then try doing reverse pushups. You lower the bar
about 3 feet away from the ground, and then you lie under the bar and
grab it with an overhand grip (Your palms facing away from you). Your
hands should be shoulder width apart, and your chest must be right
under the bar. Pull as high as possible, hold for 2 secs, and SLOWLY
lower. 2-3 sets, 6-8 reps

Or you can try doing the negative pullup. Get a box or a table or
something and put it under the chinup. You need something to use as a
launch pad. Then you get up on the table/box/whatever and grab the bar
with an underhand grip (palms facing you). Jump so your chin is above
the bar, and slowly lower yourself for about 6-8 seconds. Then use the
launch pad and jump back up over the bar again. Start out with 1 set
of maybe 4 reps if you can, and slowly build to 2-3 sets of 5 reps.

These should help you build up to doing some real pullups.

Also, when you're doing the pullup, don't think that you're pulling
yourself up. Instead, think that you're pulling your elbows down.
Strange, but it seems easier when you look at it that way.

If you want some more info on working out, drop by my blog at
http://fitandfirm.blogspot.com/