Degenerative disk disease update

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:10:34 +0200, Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Lucas Buck wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:47:59 -0400, "Steve Freides"
>> <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>[...]
>>>but it's because the take it,
>>>well, seriously - meaning they work hard at it.
>>>
>>>Just my opinion, no science claimed, studies cited, etc.
>>
>> If you actually READ the studies, fat loss is less for water-borne
>> exercise when
>> adjusted for all other factors (oxygen consumption, etc.). The mechanism
>> is unknown but presumed to be a combination of the insulative and buoyancy
>> benefits of fat
>
>I'd put my vote on Ninjas. That is if I was asked for a wild assed
>mechanism, I'd prefer Ninjas. They are even more mysterious and oh so
>cool.

If I had wanted that kind of reasoning, I would post on Lyle's forums.

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rf2il5-ot4.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
> Lucas Buck wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:47:59 -0400, "Steve Freides"
>> <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
> [...]
>>>but it's because the take it,
>>>well, seriously - meaning they work hard at it.
>>>
>>>Just my opinion, no science claimed, studies cited, etc.
>>
>> If you actually READ the studies, fat loss is less for water-borne
>> exercise when
>> adjusted for all other factors (oxygen consumption, etc.). The
>> mechanism
>> is unknown but presumed to be a combination of the insulative and
>> buoyancy
>> benefits of fat
>
> I'd put my vote on Ninjas. That is if I was asked for a wild assed
> mechanism, I'd prefer Ninjas. They are even more mysterious and oh so
> cool.
>
>> (e.g. the body "knows" it's swimming and "knows" that
>> bodyfat has *benefits* in the water,
>
> Did they try an assumption that it is actually mind, not body that
> knows it.
> Usually mind is the knowing part of people (though some women I know
> say
> that it doesn't make majority of the decisions, at least in case of
> men).
>
>> whereas it is a pure disadvantage on land)
>
> Sure, ever since we started caring about better lap times.
>
> --
> Andrzej Rosa

Most of the people I've talked to about this subject are people who both
swim and do other sports, usually run and bike. Their theory is that
because of the buoyancy effect of the water, one has to work at a harder
_perceived_ level of effort to get to the same level of _actual_ effort
in the water as on land. That makes sense to me.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Steve Freides wrote:

> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Did they try an assumption that it is actually mind, not body that
>> knows it. Usually mind is the knowing part of people (though some women I
>> know say that it doesn't make majority of the decisions, at least in case
>> of men).
>>
>>> whereas it is a pure disadvantage on land)
>>
>> Sure, ever since we started caring about better lap times.
>>
>> --
>> Andrzej Rosa
>
> Most of the people I've talked to about this subject are people who both
> swim and do other sports, usually run and bike. Their theory is that
> because of the buoyancy effect of the water, one has to work at a harder
> _perceived_ level of effort to get to the same level of _actual_ effort
> in the water as on land. That makes sense to me.

Studies mentioned by Lucas supposedly adjusted for that, so we still might
have a mystery to explain. If expending (in extreme cases) thousands of
calories daily doesn't make someone slim then people must eat it all back
(no other explanation possible). It has to be either a mind thing or some
mysterious mechanism within the body which makes a person relatively
hungrier after a swim than after other forms of cardio. But do other forms
of cardio actually work? Can someone point to a study which showed that
cardio alone (without support of a diet) actually lead to substantial
weight loss? I rather recall some that showed a mediocre initial successes
and that's it.

I mean, is there a mystery here at all? Cardio sucks for weight loss, and
swimming is no different. If we see any difference we can easily explain
it psychologically, so we don't need Ninjas. I'd be careful with Ninjas.
No need to hire them until they are really necessary.

--
Andrzej Rosa

Lucas Buck wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:10:34 +0200, Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>I'd put my vote on Ninjas. That is if I was asked for a wild assed
>>mechanism, I'd prefer Ninjas. They are even more mysterious and oh so
>>cool.
>
> If I had wanted that kind of reasoning, I would post on Lyle's forums.

You mean the style, or that he'd actually agree with it? I'm genuinely
curious.

--
Andrzej Rosa

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008, Lucas Buck wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:10:34 +0200, Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Lucas Buck wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:47:59 -0400, "Steve Freides"
>>> <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> but it's because the take it,
>>>> well, seriously - meaning they work hard at it.
>>>>
>>>> Just my opinion, no science claimed, studies cited, etc.
>>>
>>> If you actually READ the studies, fat loss is less for water-borne
>>> exercise when
>>> adjusted for all other factors (oxygen consumption, etc.). The mechanism
>>> is unknown but presumed to be a combination of the insulative and buoyancy
>>> benefits of fat
>>
>> I'd put my vote on Ninjas. That is if I was asked for a wild assed
>> mechanism, I'd prefer Ninjas. They are even more mysterious and oh so
>> cool.
>
> If I had wanted that kind of reasoning, I would post on Lyle's forums.

As a wise man once said:

"Dude, read Aquinas if you want intelligent. This is the internet."

tom

--
We can only see a short distance ahead, but we can see plenty there that
needs to be done. -- Alan Turing

In article <6enhhaF7rolnU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:rf2il5-ot4.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
> > Lucas Buck wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:47:59 -0400, "Steve Freides"
> >> <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> >>>but it's because the take it,
> >>>well, seriously - meaning they work hard at it.
> >>>
> >>>Just my opinion, no science claimed, studies cited, etc.
> >>
> >> If you actually READ the studies, fat loss is less for water-borne
> >> exercise when
> >> adjusted for all other factors (oxygen consumption, etc.). The
> >> mechanism
> >> is unknown but presumed to be a combination of the insulative and
> >> buoyancy
> >> benefits of fat
> >
> > I'd put my vote on Ninjas. That is if I was asked for a wild assed
> > mechanism, I'd prefer Ninjas. They are even more mysterious and oh so
> > cool.
> >
> >> (e.g. the body "knows" it's swimming and "knows" that
> >> bodyfat has *benefits* in the water,
> >
> > Did they try an assumption that it is actually mind, not body that
> > knows it.
> > Usually mind is the knowing part of people (though some women I know
> > say
> > that it doesn't make majority of the decisions, at least in case of
> > men).
> >
> >> whereas it is a pure disadvantage on land)
> >
> > Sure, ever since we started caring about better lap times.
> >
> > --
> > Andrzej Rosa
>
> Most of the people I've talked to about this subject are people who both
> swim and do other sports, usually run and bike. Their theory is that
> because of the buoyancy effect of the water, one has to work at a harder
> _perceived_ level of effort to get to the same level of _actual_ effort
> in the water as on land. That makes sense to me.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com

Well, I did get my heart rate up to 122 today. I need to work harder.
Back when I used to do the stairmaster, I was able to hit 160. I'm
using swim fins and my damned left foot keeps cramping if I kick too
hard.

Swimming with fins uses the muscles in a totally different way than any
step cardio.

I used to be better than this and could kick with large fins against the
river current in the local river. I've not done any serious swimming
for a few years. <sigh>

The fins are 30" heel to tip. A combo of neoprene and stiff silicon.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

In article <a0qil5-m5b.ln1@bakters.bandit.home>,
Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Steve Freides wrote:
>
> > "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >> Did they try an assumption that it is actually mind, not body that
> >> knows it. Usually mind is the knowing part of people (though some women I
> >> know say that it doesn't make majority of the decisions, at least in case
> >> of men).
> >>
> >>> whereas it is a pure disadvantage on land)
> >>
> >> Sure, ever since we started caring about better lap times.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Andrzej Rosa
> >
> > Most of the people I've talked to about this subject are people who both
> > swim and do other sports, usually run and bike. Their theory is that
> > because of the buoyancy effect of the water, one has to work at a harder
> > _perceived_ level of effort to get to the same level of _actual_ effort
> > in the water as on land. That makes sense to me.
>
> Studies mentioned by Lucas supposedly adjusted for that, so we still might
> have a mystery to explain. If expending (in extreme cases) thousands of
> calories daily doesn't make someone slim then people must eat it all back
> (no other explanation possible). It has to be either a mind thing or some
> mysterious mechanism within the body which makes a person relatively
> hungrier after a swim than after other forms of cardio. But do other forms
> of cardio actually work? Can someone point to a study which showed that
> cardio alone (without support of a diet) actually lead to substantial
> weight loss? I rather recall some that showed a mediocre initial successes
> and that's it.
>
> I mean, is there a mystery here at all? Cardio sucks for weight loss, and
> swimming is no different. If we see any difference we can easily explain
> it psychologically, so we don't need Ninjas. I'd be careful with Ninjas.
> No need to hire them until they are really necessary.

Barring Ninjas chasing you, eating less and moving more is the best
formula to fitness and weight loss. ;-) Diet alone can do it but if you
are sedentary, it'll be slow, painful weight/fat loss.

Eat less, move more.

It really is that simple.

Yeah, I have some flab to lose still, but the main goal is core/torso
strength and any weight bearing strenuous cardio puts extra pressure on
the nerves of the lumbar spine. Therein lies the rub. Literally.

It was a wake up call the other night when I tried to run, and was
unable to. :-( I've gotta take this slow. The inversion table should
help. Austin was too far for me to drive at the moment. Driving hurts
more than any other activity and I've not yet figured out why. I gave
the Brother in law the money to get one for me at Academy. He's working
on it but the two closest stores did not have them in stock! There
appears to be a run on them at the moment in this area.

Weird.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.0807231250330.16560@urchin.earth.li >,
Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008, Lucas Buck wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:10:34 +0200, Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Lucas Buck wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:47:59 -0400, "Steve Freides"
> >>> <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >>>> but it's because the take it,
> >>>> well, seriously - meaning they work hard at it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just my opinion, no science claimed, studies cited, etc.
> >>>
> >>> If you actually READ the studies, fat loss is less for water-borne
> >>> exercise when
> >>> adjusted for all other factors (oxygen consumption, etc.). The mechanism
> >>> is unknown but presumed to be a combination of the insulative and buoyancy
> >>> benefits of fat
> >>
> >> I'd put my vote on Ninjas. That is if I was asked for a wild assed
> >> mechanism, I'd prefer Ninjas. They are even more mysterious and oh so
> >> cool.
> >
> > If I had wanted that kind of reasoning, I would post on Lyle's forums.
>
> As a wise man once said:
>
> "Dude, read Aquinas if you want intelligent. This is the internet."
>
> tom

<LOL>!!! Thanks for the morning laugh!
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

"Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote

> Driving hurts
> more than any other activity and I've not yet figured out why.

If you'd read the McKenzie book, you'd know why - and you'd know what to
do about it, too. My back doctor handed me my first copy, and I've
since bought at least a dozen more and given them out to people with
back troubles. Get this book, read this book, and follow its advice -
now!

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

In article <6ep5hcF7vrpvU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > Driving hurts
> > more than any other activity and I've not yet figured out why.
>
> If you'd read the McKenzie book, you'd know why - and you'd know what to
> do about it, too. My back doctor handed me my first copy, and I've
> since bought at least a dozen more and given them out to people with
> back troubles. Get this book, read this book, and follow its advice -
> now!
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com

Okay okay! :-)

I'll call Hastings and have them order a copy.

Been avoiding on-line shopping as I've been trying to avoid the use of
credit cards.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

"Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
newsmpomelet-57EF82.12145823072008@news.giganews.com...
> In article <6ep5hcF7vrpvU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>> > Driving hurts
>> > more than any other activity and I've not yet figured out why.
>>
>> If you'd read the McKenzie book, you'd know why - and you'd know what
>> to
>> do about it, too. My back doctor handed me my first copy, and I've
>> since bought at least a dozen more and given them out to people with
>> back troubles. Get this book, read this book, and follow its
>> advice -
>> now!
>>
>> -S-
>> http://www.kbnj.com
>
> Okay okay! :-)
>
> I'll call Hastings and have them order a copy.
>
> Been avoiding on-line shopping as I've been trying to avoid the use of
> credit cards.

It's widely available at real book stores as well. If you don't find
the original, "Treat Your Own Back," get the newer book which combines
the earlier back book along with a similarly-titled book on the neck.
The newer books is entitled "7 steps to a pain-free back and neck" or
something along those lines. Either is perfectly fine and both contain
basically the same information.

The McGill book is a must-read for anyone with back problems who
exercises. The McKenzie book is simply a must-read for anyone with back
problems.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

In article <6epb59F87334U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> newsmpomelet-57EF82.12145823072008@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <6ep5hcF7vrpvU1@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote
> >>
> >> > Driving hurts
> >> > more than any other activity and I've not yet figured out why.
> >>
> >> If you'd read the McKenzie book, you'd know why - and you'd know what
> >> to
> >> do about it, too. My back doctor handed me my first copy, and I've
> >> since bought at least a dozen more and given them out to people with
> >> back troubles. Get this book, read this book, and follow its
> >> advice -
> >> now!
> >>
> >> -S-
> >> http://www.kbnj.com
> >
> > Okay okay! :-)
> >
> > I'll call Hastings and have them order a copy.
> >
> > Been avoiding on-line shopping as I've been trying to avoid the use of
> > credit cards.
>
> It's widely available at real book stores as well. If you don't find
> the original, "Treat Your Own Back," get the newer book which combines
> the earlier back book along with a similarly-titled book on the neck.
> The newer books is entitled "7 steps to a pain-free back and neck" or
> something along those lines. Either is perfectly fine and both contain
> basically the same information.
>
> The McGill book is a must-read for anyone with back problems who
> exercises. The McKenzie book is simply a must-read for anyone with back
> problems.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com

Y'know, what really sucks is, I've always been a "strong" type of
person. The leader in the family. One that won't let anything stop them.

It sucks when reality stops by. So you fight it as long as you can until
it catches up with you.

Gods I hate this!

So, I have to fight it as hard as I can. Not just for me, but for the
family...

I got the inversion table this morning. I'll assemble it tomorrow.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

"Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
newsmpomelet-DAA0C8.13260823072008@news.giganews.com...
> In article <6epb59F87334U1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> newsmpomelet-57EF82.12145823072008@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <6ep5hcF7vrpvU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> > "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote
>> >>
>> >> > Driving hurts
>> >> > more than any other activity and I've not yet figured out why.
>> >>
>> >> If you'd read the McKenzie book, you'd know why - and you'd know
>> >> what
>> >> to
>> >> do about it, too. My back doctor handed me my first copy, and
>> >> I've
>> >> since bought at least a dozen more and given them out to people
>> >> with
>> >> back troubles. Get this book, read this book, and follow its
>> >> advice -
>> >> now!
>> >>
>> >> -S-
>> >> http://www.kbnj.com
>> >
>> > Okay okay! :-)
>> >
>> > I'll call Hastings and have them order a copy.
>> >
>> > Been avoiding on-line shopping as I've been trying to avoid the use
>> > of
>> > credit cards.
>>
>> It's widely available at real book stores as well. If you don't find
>> the original, "Treat Your Own Back," get the newer book which
>> combines
>> the earlier back book along with a similarly-titled book on the neck.
>> The newer books is entitled "7 steps to a pain-free back and neck" or
>> something along those lines. Either is perfectly fine and both
>> contain
>> basically the same information.
>>
>> The McGill book is a must-read for anyone with back problems who
>> exercises. The McKenzie book is simply a must-read for anyone with
>> back
>> problems.
>>
>> -S-
>> http://www.kbnj.com
>
> Y'know, what really sucks is, I've always been a "strong" type of
> person. The leader in the family. One that won't let anything stop
> them.
>
> It sucks when reality stops by. So you fight it as long as you can
> until
> it catches up with you.
>
> Gods I hate this!
>
> So, I have to fight it as hard as I can. Not just for me, but for the
> family...

I hear you - I've been dealing with a shoulder problem for the last 5
weeks or so now, finally saw the ortho, have an arthro-MRI (they inject
dye before the MRI) scheduled, and haven't been able to do much of my
usual stuff - probably the worst injury I've had since my back injury,
and this one, while it really isn't so bad, is still enough to get in
the way of me feeling as good physically as I usually do due to a
reduced amount of exercise. Unfortunately, I have only myself to blame
for mine, as a quick look at my training log reveals - several PR's in
shoulder related things like getups, pressing, and weighted
pullup/chinup over a period of a few weeks, no following down time for
rest/recovery, and presto, an overuse injury.

What can one do? Rehab with intelligence and vigor, hope for the best,
and try to do better next time.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> I got the inversion table this morning. I'll assemble it tomorrow.
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> "Human nature seems to be to control other people
> until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

Omelet wrote:

> In article <a0qil5-m5b.ln1@bakters.bandit.home>,
> Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I mean, is there a mystery here at all? Cardio sucks for weight loss,
>> and swimming is no different. If we see any difference we can easily
>> explain it psychologically, so we don't need Ninjas. I'd be careful with
>> Ninjas. No need to hire them until they are really necessary.
>
> Barring Ninjas chasing you, eating less and moving more is the best
> formula to fitness and weight loss. ;-) Diet alone can do it but if you
> are sedentary, it'll be slow, painful weight/fat loss.

It doesn't have to be slow, and if diet is more painful than hours spent
pretending to be a hamster is up to an individual. While I believe that
some amount of activity is actually working, mostly for psychological
reasons, I don't believe that cardio helps very much in fat loss.

> Eat less, move more.
>
> It really is that simple.

It may be simple, but rather not easy. What you say boils down to
voluntarily starving yourself. It's as easy as voluntarily causing
yourself pain.

> Yeah, I have some flab to lose still,

I didn't train for a month recently. If training is what keeps me lean I
should gain fat, shouldn't I? Well, I didn't. Sorry.

> but the main goal is core/torso
> strength and any weight bearing strenuous cardio puts extra pressure on
> the nerves of the lumbar spine. Therein lies the rub. Literally.
>
> It was a wake up call the other night when I tried to run, and was
> unable to. :-( I've gotta take this slow. The inversion table should
> help. Austin was too far for me to drive at the moment. Driving hurts
> more than any other activity and I've not yet figured out why.

I've had once a similar problem with riding a motorcycle. Keeping the same
position for a long time is a killer, whatever the mechanism behind it
actually is. There are those fancy water filled pillows which you put
under your butt and which supposedly prevent you from being immobile. It
didn't work on a bike, unfortunately ;-), but might work in a car.

BTW - You didn't invent public transport in the USA yet? It's a good idea
which makes people walk some, keeps the traffic menageable and cuts on
emissions. It works so well, that in Europe most towns actually subsidize
it quite heavily. Otherwise everybody would use cars, and life in our
towns would be that much more miserable.

> I gave
> the Brother in law the money to get one for me at Academy. He's working
> on it but the two closest stores did not have them in stock! There
> appears to be a run on them at the moment in this area.
>
> Weird.

Good luck. You are obviously doing a good job so far.

--
Andrzej Rosa

Omelet <ompomelet@gmail.com> writes:

> In article <6epb59F87334U1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> newsmpomelet-57EF82.12145823072008@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <6ep5hcF7vrpvU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> > "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote
>> >>
>> >> > Driving hurts
>> >> > more than any other activity and I've not yet figured out why.
>> >>
>> >> If you'd read the McKenzie book, you'd know why - and you'd know what
>> >> to
>> >> do about it, too. My back doctor handed me my first copy, and I've
>> >> since bought at least a dozen more and given them out to people with
>> >> back troubles. Get this book, read this book, and follow its
>> >> advice -
>> >> now!
>> >>
>> >> -S-
>> >> http://www.kbnj.com
>> >
>> > Okay okay! :-)
>> >
>> > I'll call Hastings and have them order a copy.
>> >
>> > Been avoiding on-line shopping as I've been trying to avoid the use of
>> > credit cards.
>>
>> It's widely available at real book stores as well. If you don't find
>> the original, "Treat Your Own Back," get the newer book which combines
>> the earlier back book along with a similarly-titled book on the neck.
>> The newer books is entitled "7 steps to a pain-free back and neck" or
>> something along those lines. Either is perfectly fine and both contain
>> basically the same information.
>>
>> The McGill book is a must-read for anyone with back problems who
>> exercises. The McKenzie book is simply a must-read for anyone with back
>> problems.
>>
>> -S-
>> http://www.kbnj.com
>
> Y'know, what really sucks is, I've always been a "strong" type of
> person. The leader in the family. One that won't let anything stop
> them.

You are still that same person. $diety just moved the resistance up a
notch. When you work through this you'll be a stronger person for the
experience.

> It sucks when reality stops by. So you fight it as long as you can
> until it catches up with you.
>
> Gods I hate this!
>
> So, I have to fight it as hard as I can. Not just for me, but for the
> family...
>
> I got the inversion table this morning. I'll assemble it tomorrow.

Good luck,

Jason

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nidkl5-7cf.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...

> BTW - You didn't invent public transport in the USA yet? It's a good
> idea
> which makes people walk some, keeps the traffic menageable and cuts on
> emissions. It works so well, that in Europe most towns actually
> subsidize
> it quite heavily. Otherwise everybody would use cars, and life in our
> towns would be that much more miserable.

The choice of a place to live is an important variable here, too. We
walk to the grocery store (3 of them), the library, the train and bus
stations, the pharmacy, coffee shops (4 of those), restaurants (dozens
of those), etc. We live a few blocks from the edge of the downtown area
of a town of about 25,000 people here in New Joisey, uh New Jersey.
The kids can walk or ride a bike to school, too. It's a choice - the
same money would have bought us a much bigger house and yard elsewhere
but I'm glad to be where we are.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


>> I gave
>> the Brother in law the money to get one for me at Academy. He's
>> working
>> on it but the two closest stores did not have them in stock! There
>> appears to be a run on them at the moment in this area.
>>
>> Weird.
>
> Good luck. You are obviously doing a good job so far.
>
> --
> Andrzej Rosa

Steve Freides wrote:

> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> newsmpomelet-DAA0C8.13260823072008@news.giganews.com...
>>
>> Y'know, what really sucks is, I've always been a "strong" type of
>> person. The leader in the family. One that won't let anything stop
>> them.
>>
>> It sucks when reality stops by. So you fight it as long as you can
>> until
>> it catches up with you.
>>
>> Gods I hate this!
>>
>> So, I have to fight it as hard as I can. Not just for me, but for the
>> family...
>
> I hear you - I've been dealing with a shoulder problem for the last 5
> weeks or so now, finally saw the ortho, have an arthro-MRI (they inject
> dye before the MRI) scheduled, and haven't been able to do much of my
> usual stuff - probably the worst injury I've had since my back injury,

Stop doing strict overhead presses. I don't think you actually have a
choice in the long term, but you have a choice now. Stop it before a
temporary problem turns into a permanent one.

Pavel used to pretend that he knows a bit about how to bent press. He
doesn't, but you can learn. It's technically way more difficult, it has
very high mobility demands, but it is actually much safer move for
shoulders. If your shoulder injury is as much like mine as it looks like,
it may actually work.

> and this one, while it really isn't so bad, is still enough to get in
> the way of me feeling as good physically as I usually do due to a
> reduced amount of exercise. Unfortunately, I have only myself to blame
> for mine, as a quick look at my training log reveals - several PR's in
> shoulder related things like getups, pressing, and weighted
> pullup/chinup over a period of a few weeks, no following down time for
> rest/recovery, and presto, an overuse injury.
>
> What can one do? Rehab with intelligence and vigor, hope for the best,
> and try to do better next time.

Jerks are fine too. Behind the neck jerks are even better. The only
trouble when using a barbell is in bringing the bar down without dropping
it. Anyway, I'm putting my bets on strict pressing as being the culprit.

Good luck.
--
Andrzej Rosa

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:40:31 -0500, Omelet <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote:

>In article <a0qil5-m5b.ln1@bakters.bandit.home>,
> Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Steve Freides wrote:
>>
>> > "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >>
>> >> Did they try an assumption that it is actually mind, not body that
>> >> knows it. Usually mind is the knowing part of people (though some women I
>> >> know say that it doesn't make majority of the decisions, at least in case
>> >> of men).
>> >>
>> >>> whereas it is a pure disadvantage on land)
>> >>
>> >> Sure, ever since we started caring about better lap times.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Andrzej Rosa
>> >
>> > Most of the people I've talked to about this subject are people who both
>> > swim and do other sports, usually run and bike. Their theory is that
>> > because of the buoyancy effect of the water, one has to work at a harder
>> > _perceived_ level of effort to get to the same level of _actual_ effort
>> > in the water as on land. That makes sense to me.
>>
>> Studies mentioned by Lucas supposedly adjusted for that, so we still might
>> have a mystery to explain. If expending (in extreme cases) thousands of
>> calories daily doesn't make someone slim then people must eat it all back
>> (no other explanation possible). It has to be either a mind thing or some
>> mysterious mechanism within the body which makes a person relatively
>> hungrier after a swim than after other forms of cardio. But do other forms
>> of cardio actually work? Can someone point to a study which showed that
>> cardio alone (without support of a diet) actually lead to substantial
>> weight loss? I rather recall some that showed a mediocre initial successes
>> and that's it.
>>
>> I mean, is there a mystery here at all? Cardio sucks for weight loss, and
>> swimming is no different. If we see any difference we can easily explain
>> it psychologically, so we don't need Ninjas. I'd be careful with Ninjas.
>> No need to hire them until they are really necessary.
>
>Barring Ninjas chasing you, eating less and moving more is the best
>formula to fitness and weight loss. ;-) Diet alone can do it but if you
>are sedentary, it'll be slow, painful weight/fat loss.

In other words:

if Ninjas are chasing you on land, run;

if Ninjas are chasing you in the water, turn and fight,
since fleeing them in water won't net you as much bodyfat loss benefits.

Pertinent studies are mentioned in the footnotes of Chapter 7 of Jeet Kune Do.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:32:05 +0200, Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>BTW - You didn't invent public transport in the USA yet? It's a good idea
>which makes people walk some, keeps the traffic menageable and cuts on
>emissions. It works so well, that in Europe most towns actually subsidize
>it quite heavily. Otherwise everybody would use cars, and life in our
>towns would be that much more miserable.

Of COURSE we did.

Public transit works well where you have the population density to make it feasible.

Americans generally like to live less densely (gives the ninjas fewer places to hide)
so it's less practical.

Plus, public transit routes in cities here, since cities are generally Democrat-controlled,
are often chosen for political patronage purposes rather than to serve actual demand,
so many such routes go underutilized, costing _more_ (monetarily AND environmentally)
than any other option. For example, the northerly light rail route in my area runs right by
a particular company which had shed 70% of its jobs in the last 15 years or so, BUT **one
of its VP's was previously Chairman of the House Transportation Committee**... so there
it went. Average ridership is probably 3-5 people per train. It would cost FAR less to hire
individual taxis at taxpayer expense for those few served, and shut the line down.

For similar spending strategeries, google the Big Dig.

Now, what WOULD provide a net benefit is high-speed rail along major short-run air
transport corridors, e.g. Washington-NY-Philly-Boston and L.A.-Bay Area, but such
projects span multiple political boundaries (and would serve lots of non-Democrat terrain),
so the partisan profit motive is lost.

Moral of this story: name ME Benevolent Dictator of the U.S., and I'll make it all happen.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:34:38 -0500, Omelet <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well, I did get my heart rate up to 122 today. I need to work harder.
>Back when I used to do the stairmaster, I was able to hit 160. I'm
>using swim fins and my damned left foot keeps cramping if I kick too
>hard.

You'll probably do better on the stairmaster, and suffer fewer injuries there,
if you do it WITHOUT the swim fins. Just a theory.

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

In article <6epeooF855tqU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> newsmpomelet-DAA0C8.13260823072008@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <6epb59F87334U1@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> newsmpomelet-57EF82.12145823072008@news.giganews.com...
> >> > In article <6ep5hcF7vrpvU1@mid.individual.net>,
> >> > "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote
> >> >>
> >> >> > Driving hurts
> >> >> > more than any other activity and I've not yet figured out why.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you'd read the McKenzie book, you'd know why - and you'd know
> >> >> what
> >> >> to
> >> >> do about it, too. My back doctor handed me my first copy, and
> >> >> I've
> >> >> since bought at least a dozen more and given them out to people
> >> >> with
> >> >> back troubles. Get this book, read this book, and follow its
> >> >> advice -
> >> >> now!
> >> >>
> >> >> -S-
> >> >> http://www.kbnj.com
> >> >
> >> > Okay okay! :-)
> >> >
> >> > I'll call Hastings and have them order a copy.
> >> >
> >> > Been avoiding on-line shopping as I've been trying to avoid the use
> >> > of
> >> > credit cards.
> >>
> >> It's widely available at real book stores as well. If you don't find
> >> the original, "Treat Your Own Back," get the newer book which
> >> combines
> >> the earlier back book along with a similarly-titled book on the neck.
> >> The newer books is entitled "7 steps to a pain-free back and neck" or
> >> something along those lines. Either is perfectly fine and both
> >> contain
> >> basically the same information.
> >>
> >> The McGill book is a must-read for anyone with back problems who
> >> exercises. The McKenzie book is simply a must-read for anyone with
> >> back
> >> problems.
> >>
> >> -S-
> >> http://www.kbnj.com
> >
> > Y'know, what really sucks is, I've always been a "strong" type of
> > person. The leader in the family. One that won't let anything stop
> > them.
> >
> > It sucks when reality stops by. So you fight it as long as you can
> > until
> > it catches up with you.
> >
> > Gods I hate this!
> >
> > So, I have to fight it as hard as I can. Not just for me, but for the
> > family...
>
> I hear you - I've been dealing with a shoulder problem for the last 5
> weeks or so now, finally saw the ortho, have an arthro-MRI (they inject
> dye before the MRI) scheduled, and haven't been able to do much of my
> usual stuff - probably the worst injury I've had since my back injury,
> and this one, while it really isn't so bad, is still enough to get in
> the way of me feeling as good physically as I usually do due to a
> reduced amount of exercise. Unfortunately, I have only myself to blame
> for mine, as a quick look at my training log reveals - several PR's in
> shoulder related things like getups, pressing, and weighted
> pullup/chinup over a period of a few weeks, no following down time for
> rest/recovery, and presto, an overuse injury.
>
> What can one do? Rehab with intelligence and vigor, hope for the best,
> and try to do better next time.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
>
> > I got the inversion table this morning. I'll assemble it tomorrow.
> > --
> > Peace! Om
> >
> > "Human nature seems to be to control other people
> > until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

And avoid surgery... Good luck to you as well dude!
I injured my left shoulder many years ago mowing the back lawn with
one of those manual rotary push mowers. I let the grass get too high.
For nearly a year, I could not lift my arm above shoulder hight. What
helped with that was just care and rest, and LOTS of Glucosamine sulfate.

I really should hit that stuff again for this. It's gotten to be cheap
now that it's fallen out of favor for the Chondroitin/MSM supplements.
Wal-mart carries it in bottles of 500 grams for (last I looked) around
$15.00.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

In article <87d4l4e5ss.fsf@xmission.com>,
Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com> wrote:

> > Y'know, what really sucks is, I've always been a "strong" type of
> > person. The leader in the family. One that won't let anything stop
> > them.
>
> You are still that same person. $diety just moved the resistance up a
> notch. When you work through this you'll be a stronger person for the
> experience.

What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. ;-)
I was just venting.

>
> > It sucks when reality stops by. So you fight it as long as you can
> > until it catches up with you.
> >
> > Gods I hate this!
> >
> > So, I have to fight it as hard as I can. Not just for me, but for the
> > family...
> >
> > I got the inversion table this morning. I'll assemble it tomorrow.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Jason

Thanks.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

In article <nidkl5-7cf.ln1@bakters.bandit.home>,
Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
> > In article <a0qil5-m5b.ln1@bakters.bandit.home>,
> > Andrzej Rosa <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I mean, is there a mystery here at all? Cardio sucks for weight loss,
> >> and swimming is no different. If we see any difference we can easily
> >> explain it psychologically, so we don't need Ninjas. I'd be careful with
> >> Ninjas. No need to hire them until they are really necessary.
> >
> > Barring Ninjas chasing you, eating less and moving more is the best
> > formula to fitness and weight loss. ;-) Diet alone can do it but if you
> > are sedentary, it'll be slow, painful weight/fat loss.
>
> It doesn't have to be slow, and if diet is more painful than hours spent
> pretending to be a hamster is up to an individual. While I believe that
> some amount of activity is actually working, mostly for psychological
> reasons, I don't believe that cardio helps very much in fat loss.

Studies show that cardio raises metabolism for several hours.
Why do you not believe it helps?

>
> > Eat less, move more.
> >
> > It really is that simple.
>
> It may be simple, but rather not easy. What you say boils down to
> voluntarily starving yourself. It's as easy as voluntarily causing
> yourself pain.

<lol> Yes, I know! I'm in the midst of that at the moment. Have been for
awhile. Fortunately for me, low carbing is more effective than a high
carb, low fat diet and easier to stick to. One trick to dieting
comfortably is eating a lot of high fiber veggies (leafy greens). They
are high in bulk to fill you up and low in calories.

And I like them.


>
> > Yeah, I have some flab to lose still,
>
> I didn't train for a month recently. If training is what keeps me lean I
> should gain fat, shouldn't I? Well, I didn't. Sorry.

<shrugs> Don't count yourself as the majority. Some people can eat like
pigs, not exercise, and stay lean. That's genetic and hormonal! Never
discount genetics.

>
> > but the main goal is core/torso
> > strength and any weight bearing strenuous cardio puts extra pressure on
> > the nerves of the lumbar spine. Therein lies the rub. Literally.
> >
> > It was a wake up call the other night when I tried to run, and was
> > unable to. :-( I've gotta take this slow. The inversion table should
> > help. Austin was too far for me to drive at the moment. Driving hurts
> > more than any other activity and I've not yet figured out why.
>
> I've had once a similar problem with riding a motorcycle. Keeping the same
> position for a long time is a killer, whatever the mechanism behind it
> actually is. There are those fancy water filled pillows which you put
> under your butt and which supposedly prevent you from being immobile. It
> didn't work on a bike, unfortunately ;-), but might work in a car.

I've considered checking out that kind of thing, but I'm going to read
that book that was recommended first.

>
> BTW - You didn't invent public transport in the USA yet? It's a good idea
> which makes people walk some, keeps the traffic menageable and cuts on
> emissions. It works so well, that in Europe most towns actually subsidize
> it quite heavily. Otherwise everybody would use cars, and life in our
> towns would be that much more miserable.

There is no reliable public transportation to where I commute. They are
supposed to be building a mag rail train between Austin and San Antonio,
but it's going to be a few years before that is done.

>
> > I gave
> > the Brother in law the money to get one for me at Academy. He's working
> > on it but the two closest stores did not have them in stock! There
> > appears to be a run on them at the moment in this area.
> >
> > Weird.
>
> Good luck. You are obviously doing a good job so far.

<snort> Pain is a good motivator. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

In article <9qdf845l08bki83unf15qnovcokdglghbb@4ax.com>,
Lucas Buck <sbcpark@earthlink.NOSPAM.net> wrote:

> >Barring Ninjas chasing you, eating less and moving more is the best
> >formula to fitness and weight loss. ;-) Diet alone can do it but if you
> >are sedentary, it'll be slow, painful weight/fat loss.
>
> In other words:
>
> if Ninjas are chasing you on land, run;
>
> if Ninjas are chasing you in the water, turn and fight,
> since fleeing them in water won't net you as much bodyfat loss benefits.
>
> Pertinent studies are mentioned in the footnotes of Chapter 7 of Jeet Kune Do.

<lol>
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

In article <6ief845487bfnah1eami6iik56ejfu9722@4ax.com>,
Lucas Buck <sbcpark@earthlink.NOSPAM.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:34:38 -0500, Omelet <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Well, I did get my heart rate up to 122 today. I need to work harder.
> >Back when I used to do the stairmaster, I was able to hit 160. I'm
> >using swim fins and my damned left foot keeps cramping if I kick too
> >hard.
>
> You'll probably do better on the stairmaster, and suffer fewer injuries there,
> if you do it WITHOUT the swim fins. Just a theory.

<snicker>

Using fins works different muscles. Once I'm able to train them up to
par, the problem will go away. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

In article <sudf841iik3su45d1n6s7e7puumlp18526@4ax.com>,
Lucas Buck <sbcpark@earthlink.NOSPAM.net> wrote:

> Now, what WOULD provide a net benefit is high-speed rail along major
> short-run air
> transport corridors, e.g. Washington-NY-Philly-Boston and L.A.-Bay Area, but
> such
> projects span multiple political boundaries (and would serve lots of
> non-Democrat terrain),
> so the partisan profit motive is lost.
>
> Moral of this story: name ME Benevolent Dictator of the U.S., and I'll make
> it all happen.

Or Ninja king of the world?
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
until they put their foot down." -- Stephan Rothstein

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8rgkl5-89g.ln1@bakters.bandit.home...
> Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" <ompomelet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> newsmpomelet-DAA0C8.13260823072008@news.giganews.com...
>>>
>>> Y'know, what really sucks is, I've always been a "strong" type of
>>> person. The leader in the family. One that won't let anything stop
>>> them.
>>>
>>> It sucks when reality stops by. So you fight it as long as you can
>>> until
>>> it catches up with you.
>>>
>>> Gods I hate this!
>>>
>>> So, I have to fight it as hard as I can. Not just for me, but for
>>> the
>>> family...
>>
>> I hear you - I've been dealing with a shoulder problem for the last 5
>> weeks or so now, finally saw the ortho, have an arthro-MRI (they
>> inject
>> dye before the MRI