Exercise? But I hate exercise!

Shute wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 03:12:32 -0500, JMW
> <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>
> >Yes, Andrzej, that was a well rationalized self-justification. With a
> >little extra courage, you may learn to accept it for what it is. It's
> >called the BUTCH THE FUCK UP approach. You see, it been recognized
> >for over a decade in this newsgroup that those who allow themselves to
> >whine and avoid effort will never be effective at strength training.
> >I realize, of course, that such concepts are anathema to the friendly
> >butt-kissers and hand-holders who see themselves as The New World
> >Order of this newsgroup, but that's just the way it is.
>
> I had a friend at the gym who worked his ass off every time he was
> there. He hadn't seen any gains for over a year. It takes more than
> just hard work to make muscle.
>
> You sound like the type of guy that would trhough someone in the water
> to teach them to swim.

I suspect there are people here who would like to throw *you* into the
water without caring whether you can swim or not.

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:55:24 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
wrote:

>Once you have made a habit of exercising you can always tweak things
>so that you are making progress. No matter how good your genetics you
>aren't going to make gains without exercising.

Except he wouldn't tweak anything no matter what I or anyone else told
him to try. He continued to stick with his 3 day a week full body
workout which worked when he first started. I am sure he was in good
shape but wasn't making any muscle or strength gains.

>> You sound like the type of guy that would trhough someone in the
>> water to teach them to swim.
>
>That's a very effective way to learn how to swim. I learned that
>way. It was a little scary, but very effective.

I am pretty sure I can teach anyone to swim without terrifying them.
They just have to want to do it. The OP wants the benefits of
exercise without putting in any effort. It just doesn't work that
way.

John Williams wrote:

re Shute

> I suspect there are people here who would like to throw
> *you* into the water without caring whether you can swim
> or not.

Well, bully for your suspicions, Johnny. Being careful of what you say,
eh? Wouldn't want to say something and then be called on it, right?

Of course that'd be nothing new for you.

--
Curt

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

re http://theabsdiet.com/

> The Absdiet?
> *targeted fat loss*? Among many other fictions.

Not targeted fat loss, but a targeted sales strategy. It's an effective
title for a book on *general fat loss* with an emphasis on making your
abs more visible. ;o)

> Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

--
Curt

Bully wrote:
> Curt wrote:
> > shoemakerted wrote:
[...]

> >> I'm age 48 and definitely out of shape. So, what would you
> >> recommend for someone like me?
> >
> > Well, yes, the attitude adjustment as mentioned elsewhere in this
> > thread. And a look see at http://theabsdiet.com/ for info on, yeah,
> > the Abs Diet. That and picking up a men's bodybuilding magazine.
>
> What for?

Perhaps you missed the next few lines. Allow me to review:

"That and picking up a men's bodybuilding magazine. Women do
love the male model types, so if you like women then that should serve
as motivation to get back in shape via progressive weight training
a.k.a. bodybuilding."

Hth, but, yeah, I'll just assume it won't.

> Bully
> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

Curt
Dove bars: http://www.candydirect.com/bars/Dove-Bar-Dark.html

--

On 8 Nov 2006 15:06:59 -0800, "JMW" <jmwilliams_56@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Shute wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 03:12:32 -0500, JMW
>> <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Yes, Andrzej, that was a well rationalized self-justification. With a
>> >little extra courage, you may learn to accept it for what it is. It's
>> >called the BUTCH THE FUCK UP approach. You see, it been recognized
>> >for over a decade in this newsgroup that those who allow themselves to
>> >whine and avoid effort will never be effective at strength training.
>> >I realize, of course, that such concepts are anathema to the friendly
>> >butt-kissers and hand-holders who see themselves as The New World
>> >Order of this newsgroup, but that's just the way it is.
>>
>> I had a friend at the gym who worked his ass off every time he was
>> there. He hadn't seen any gains for over a year. It takes more than
>> just hard work to make muscle.
>>
>> You sound like the type of guy that would trhough someone in the water
>> to teach them to swim.
>
>I suspect there are people here who would like to throw *you* into the
>water without caring whether you can swim or not.

Seems you have already been thrown in. You are drowning and
desperately reaching for something to hold onto.

Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> writes:

> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:55:24 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Once you have made a habit of exercising you can always tweak things
>>so that you are making progress. No matter how good your genetics
>>you aren't going to make gains without exercising.
>
> Except he wouldn't tweak anything no matter what I or anyone else
> told him to try. He continued to stick with his 3 day a week full
> body workout which worked when he first started. I am sure he was
> in good shape but wasn't making any muscle or strength gains.

People just starting are likely to make gains no matter what they do.
People that stick with the same approach whether they make gains or
not are likely to stagnate no matter what program they pick. The two
are essentially separate issues.

If you aren't exercising regularly you should start. If you aren't
making gains you should switch things up.

>>> You sound like the type of guy that would trhough someone in the
>>> water to teach them to swim.
>>
>>That's a very effective way to learn how to swim. I learned that
>>way. It was a little scary, but very effective.
>
> I am pretty sure I can teach anyone to swim without terrifying them.
> They just have to want to do it. The OP wants the benefits of
> exercise without putting in any effort. It just doesn't work that
> way.

I wasn't terrified. I had never swum before, so I was a bit scared,
but my uncle promised he wouldn't let me drown .

Jason

Jason Earl wrote:
> That's a very effective way to learn how to swim. I learned that
> way. It was a little scary, but very effective.

That's a very effective way to help a kid develop a lifelong dislike of
the water. If you throw a person who really cannot swim into the water,
he will likely drown. Even if they don't, they will not know how to
swim any better than before you threw them in.

Thrashing around trying not to sink is not swimming. Swimming is
propelling yourself through the water.

Stephen N.--->swimming...good...

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:46:51 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
wrote:

>I wasn't terrified. I had never swum before, so I was a bit scared,
>but my uncle promised he wouldn't let me drown .

If he was there to pull you out than it isn't quite the same. Did he
actually throw you in?

I started swimming before I can even remember. I always pushed beyond
what I was supposed to be doing.

Problem is, the pitch is so (typically) misleading, can you really trust
that there will be any info of substance within the covers?
How can one speak of "general fat loss" with an emphasis on *then* making
abs more visible?
If the fat loss is in fact general, as it MUST be, then the visibility of
abs will just be in proportion to the overall fat loss.
It IS true, that fat loss follows the LOFO principle: last on, first off,
which can *appear* as targeted fat loss, but just reflects how a given body
prefers to deposit/lose fat. This pattern cannot be manipulated..
So the book appears to be but another run-of-the-mill hype, lose 12 lbs in X
days, blah blah.
Please....
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163027980.462320.220000@m73g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

re http://theabsdiet.com/

> The Absdiet?
> *targeted fat loss*? Among many other fictions.

Not targeted fat loss, but a targeted sales strategy. It's an effective
title for a book on *general fat loss* with an emphasis on making your
abs more visible. ;o)

> Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

--
Curt

Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:46:51 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I wasn't terrified. I had never swum before, so I was a bit scared,
>>but my uncle promised he wouldn't let me drown .
>
>If he was there to pull you out than it isn't quite the same. Did he
>actually throw you in?
>
>I started swimming before I can even remember. I always pushed beyond
>what I was supposed to be doing.

And you continue to exceed your limitations by posting messages on
subjects that are far beyond your mental capacity.

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

re http://theabsdiet.com/ and its targeted sales strategy

> Problem is, the pitch is so (typically) misleading,

I disagree in general. Yes, ads are typically misleading, however The
Abs Diet is a quick and relatively easy read. Straightforward and full
of direct and, imo, easily-comprehended material.

> can you really trust that there will be any info of
> substance within the covers?

Yes.

> How can one speak of "general fat loss" with an emphasis
> on *then* making abs more visible?

You're somethingsomething throwing the baby out with the wash water.

> If the fat loss is in fact general, as it MUST be, then the
> visibility of abs will just be in proportion to the overall fat loss.

Aaaaannnnnd? You take issue with that fact as it relates to The Abs
Diet why?

> It IS true, that fat loss follows the LOFO principle: last on,
> first off, which can *appear* as targeted fat loss, but just
> reflects how a given body prefers to deposit/lose fat.

Aaaaannnnnd? You take issue with that fact as it relates to The Abs
Diet why?

> This pattern cannot be manipulated..
> So the book appears to be but another run-of-the-mill
> hype, lose 12 lbs in X days, blah blah.
> Please....

But it's not run-of-the-mill. It's... HARLEY ORANGE!!!

Although I'm sure some might say The Abs Diet smacks of hucksterism, I
see it as an
entertaining style of writing. References to pop culture in Archie
Bunker, enthusiasm-building visual imagery in "fat furnaces" and, yes,
a BUY NOW! TODAY! directive in "you'll lose up to 12 pounds of
fat--from your belly first!" But the information is rock solid.

And I know I'm a cheerleader for this book and, yes, therefore biased,
so check out
what Publishers Weekly has to say:

Eat everything. Concentrate on whole grains. Drink milk. Balance
protein with carbohydrates. Avoid processed sugars. Do some exercise.
The idea that a diet book making such proposals comes as a pleasant
surprise shows just how far afield we've gone in the search for new
ways to be fit. The only thing new about this diet by the
editor-in-chief of Men's Health is its name, and this, one can presume,
is because nowadays, a book simply called "Sensible Eating" wouldn't
sell. The book's title is indeed misleading; only the final chapter
deals solely with abs. The rest is full of rational recommendations for
a realistic diet plan: eat more and smaller meals; have oatmeal in the
morning for a nourishing breakfast; don't starve yourself; drink plenty
of water; and stay away from sodas and foods that contain high-fructose
corn syrup. Whether readers will, in the end, walk away with abs of
steel is not really the point. They'll control their weight in a
healthy way, without counting calories, cutting out whole food groups
or supporting the beef futures market. Best of all, this book tells
readers why it works: increase your body's metabolism, gain some muscle
and fat burns away. The authors make this seem like a fresh and very
attainable ideal.
/quote from
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157...lance&n=283155
aka http://tinyurl.com/pmykv

The Amazon link or TinyURL link will take you to Amazon's Abs Diet page
which, along with book specifics, offers 146 customer reviews not all
of which are especially glowing, which possibly serves to offset my
bias in favor of the book.

I was first introduced to the book courtesy of Amazing Abs, a
just-less-than-magazine-size book from Men's Health and the good people
at Rodale Inc.

Amazing Abs has much the same info as The Abs Diet but with a lot more
pictures. The cover screams "LOSE YOUR GUT! Exclusive! Abs Diet
Excerpt" and has a pic of a guy displaying a cover model six-pack.

I liked the humor and no-nonsense approach used in that book. Diet and
exercise plans, visually appealing with tons of pics of male and female
models demonstrating correct exercise performance. Amazing Abs is a
collection of bits and pieces of other Rodale books edited together in
a truly artful way, imo. Informative, attractive, accessible.

Enjoying that book piqued my interest in The Abs Diet. Fwiw, it's a New
York Times bestseller. It's written in an engaging manner,
straightforward, intelligent, and, yes, again, with humor. Early in the
book, the message "Changing the Way You Think About the Word Diet" is
offered as a headline. The book does just that. The writers say it
better than I ever could:

"For years - or maybe for all your life - you've probably had one
notion about what dieting needs to be. Restrict your foods, eat like a
supermodel, sweat on the treadmill, and you'll lose fat. In reality,
those could be the very reasons why you couldn't lose weight. It's why
you gained back what you lost. It's the reason why your steamboat
metabolism may have geared down to that of an anchored barge. It's why
you don't see much progress when you try new weight-loss programs. And
it's why the only real recipe many diet plans offer is a recipe for
pecan-encrusted failure."

That's some visual imagery. I like it. A lot. Yeah, it could probably
be boiled down to five or ten pages of text, but for ten bucks, this
book and its philosophy, imo, can't be beat.

And, yes, David Zinczenko (with Ted Spiker) has a good bit of P.T.
Barnum or carnival barker in him, but, imo, this book is not for
suckers*. Zinczenko's enthusiasm leaps from the page. Good information,
visually appealing, right price, and a motivational writing style all
equal a book I'm glad I purchased. Ymmv. ;o)

I also picked up The Abs Diet Eat Right Every Time Guide which includes
789 of what the authors call the best on-the-go food choices. It's
offered as a complete supermarket survival guide and contains 60
six-minute meals for a six-pack.

> Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

--
Curt

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:39:09 -0500, JMW
<jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:

>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:46:51 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I wasn't terrified. I had never swum before, so I was a bit scared,
>>>but my uncle promised he wouldn't let me drown .
>>
>>If he was there to pull you out than it isn't quite the same. Did he
>>actually throw you in?
>>
>>I started swimming before I can even remember. I always pushed beyond
>>what I was supposed to be doing.
>
>And you continue to exceed your limitations by posting messages on
>subjects that are far beyond your mental capacity.

I wasn't aware swimming required intelligence. Please tell us, he who
knows everything.

Pete wrote:
> "Bully" <bully1@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>
> >> Well, yes, the attitude adjustment as mentioned elsewhere in this
> >> thread. And a look see at http://theabsdiet.com/ for info on, yeah,
> >> the Abs Diet. That and picking up a men's bodybuilding magazine.
>
> > What for?
>
> To look at these pictures of muscular men, saturated in oil.

heh )

Okay, there's that. I mean everyone needs a goal. That Everest, right?
But re men's bodybuilding magazines, they also offer snapshots of the
female competitors in the sport. By way of example, the December 2006
issue of Muscle & Fitness has an article (WITH PICTURES) featuring IFBB
Figure Pro Valerie Waugaman showing how she sculpts her "world-class"
glutes.

Oh, yes!

THAR'S SOME MOTIVATION BETWIXT THEM PAGES!

> Pete

--
Curt

Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:39:09 -0500, JMW
><jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>
>>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:46:51 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I wasn't terrified. I had never swum before, so I was a bit scared,
>>>>but my uncle promised he wouldn't let me drown .
>>>
>>>If he was there to pull you out than it isn't quite the same. Did he
>>>actually throw you in?
>>>
>>>I started swimming before I can even remember. I always pushed beyond
>>>what I was supposed to be doing.
>>
>>And you continue to exceed your limitations by posting messages on
>>subjects that are far beyond your mental capacity.
>
>I wasn't aware swimming required intelligence.

My comment wasn't limited to swimming. It refers to nearly everything
that issues forth from your keyboard.

Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> writes:

> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:46:51 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I wasn't terrified. I had never swum before, so I was a bit scared,
>>but my uncle promised he wouldn't let me drown .
>
> If he was there to pull you out than it isn't quite the same. Did
> he actually throw you in?

Oh yeah, he threw me in all right. I honestly think that I was mostly
concerned that I would disappoint him by not being able to swim. I
really looked up to my uncle (heck, I still do). To say that I
trusted him would be an understatement. I also was pretty sure he
wasn't going to fish me out until I was *really* starting to drown.

> I started swimming before I can even remember. I always pushed
> beyond what I was supposed to be doing.

I started swimming before I was five. It's one of my earliest
memories. As things go it was a pretty memorable way to learn to
swim.

Jason

"Stephen N." <Steelystephen@coldmail.com> writes:

> Jason Earl wrote:
>> That's a very effective way to learn how to swim. I learned that
>> way. It was a little scary, but very effective.
>
> That's a very effective way to help a kid develop a lifelong dislike
> of the water. If you throw a person who really cannot swim into the
> water, he will likely drown. Even if they don't, they will not know
> how to swim any better than before you threw them in.

I disagree. I learned to swim this way and I know quite a few other
people that learned this way. It's not the way I am teaching my own
kids to swim, but I have to admit that I learned to swim far earlier
than they did. I spent most of the summer swimming. I grew up on a
lake, and was on the swim team starting at age eight.

So clearly this method of learning to swim doesn't traumatize everyone.

There's really no trick to the dog paddle, and that's where everyone
starts no matter who is teaching. It's basically simply a measure of
confidence.

> Thrashing around trying not to sink is not swimming. Swimming is
> propelling yourself through the water.

And... I guarantee that the first time you actually swam you didn't
utilize a perfect crawl stroke.

> Stephen N.--->swimming...good...

I couldn't agree more.

Jason

Well, then we could reprint the book, word for word, and change the title to
Slimmer Thighs, or Tiny-er Ankles, Slimmer Calves, Tighter Upper Arms....
Well, almost word-for-word--would have to change the final chapter to
Thighs, or Ankles, or Calves or Arms....
And fat don't burn or melt away... it mebbe fizzles. Slowly.

Sensible advice amidst outrageous claims is a peculiar combo. Sorta like
shocking the stray dog, while giving it good meal.
And 12 lbs in 12 days is not so sensible.
There are always grains of truth--even from Tony fuknLittle--amidst the
hustle.
So how is the health consumer sposed to know who what when to believe?

Interestingly, and in welcome contrast, in the short thread Muscle loss
during diet, almost to a person the consensus was the paltry 1-lb/week loss
might be too steep for the OP--very surprising.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163047736.482088.79990@f16g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

re http://theabsdiet.com/ and its targeted sales strategy

> Problem is, the pitch is so (typically) misleading,

I disagree in general. Yes, ads are typically misleading, however The
Abs Diet is a quick and relatively easy read. Straightforward and full
of direct and, imo, easily-comprehended material.

> can you really trust that there will be any info of
> substance within the covers?

Yes.

> How can one speak of "general fat loss" with an emphasis
> on *then* making abs more visible?

You're somethingsomething throwing the baby out with the wash water.

> If the fat loss is in fact general, as it MUST be, then the
> visibility of abs will just be in proportion to the overall fat loss.

Aaaaannnnnd? You take issue with that fact as it relates to The Abs
Diet why?

> It IS true, that fat loss follows the LOFO principle: last on,
> first off, which can *appear* as targeted fat loss, but just
> reflects how a given body prefers to deposit/lose fat.

Aaaaannnnnd? You take issue with that fact as it relates to The Abs
Diet why?

> This pattern cannot be manipulated..
> So the book appears to be but another run-of-the-mill
> hype, lose 12 lbs in X days, blah blah.
> Please....

But it's not run-of-the-mill. It's... HARLEY ORANGE!!!

Although I'm sure some might say The Abs Diet smacks of hucksterism, I
see it as an
entertaining style of writing. References to pop culture in Archie
Bunker, enthusiasm-building visual imagery in "fat furnaces" and, yes,
a BUY NOW! TODAY! directive in "you'll lose up to 12 pounds of
fat--from your belly first!" But the information is rock solid.

And I know I'm a cheerleader for this book and, yes, therefore biased,
so check out
what Publishers Weekly has to say:

Eat everything. Concentrate on whole grains. Drink milk. Balance
protein with carbohydrates. Avoid processed sugars. Do some exercise.
The idea that a diet book making such proposals comes as a pleasant
surprise shows just how far afield we've gone in the search for new
ways to be fit. The only thing new about this diet by the
editor-in-chief of Men's Health is its name, and this, one can presume,
is because nowadays, a book simply called "Sensible Eating" wouldn't
sell. The book's title is indeed misleading; only the final chapter
deals solely with abs. The rest is full of rational recommendations for
a realistic diet plan: eat more and smaller meals; have oatmeal in the
morning for a nourishing breakfast; don't starve yourself; drink plenty
of water; and stay away from sodas and foods that contain high-fructose
corn syrup. Whether readers will, in the end, walk away with abs of
steel is not really the point. They'll control their weight in a
healthy way, without counting calories, cutting out whole food groups
or supporting the beef futures market. Best of all, this book tells
readers why it works: increase your body's metabolism, gain some muscle
and fat burns away. The authors make this seem like a fresh and very
attainable ideal.
/quote from
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157...lance&n=283155
aka http://tinyurl.com/pmykv

The Amazon link or TinyURL link will take you to Amazon's Abs Diet page
which, along with book specifics, offers 146 customer reviews not all
of which are especially glowing, which possibly serves to offset my
bias in favor of the book.

I was first introduced to the book courtesy of Amazing Abs, a
just-less-than-magazine-size book from Men's Health and the good people
at Rodale Inc.

Amazing Abs has much the same info as The Abs Diet but with a lot more
pictures. The cover screams "LOSE YOUR GUT! Exclusive! Abs Diet
Excerpt" and has a pic of a guy displaying a cover model six-pack.

I liked the humor and no-nonsense approach used in that book. Diet and
exercise plans, visually appealing with tons of pics of male and female
models demonstrating correct exercise performance. Amazing Abs is a
collection of bits and pieces of other Rodale books edited together in
a truly artful way, imo. Informative, attractive, accessible.

Enjoying that book piqued my interest in The Abs Diet. Fwiw, it's a New
York Times bestseller. It's written in an engaging manner,
straightforward, intelligent, and, yes, again, with humor. Early in the
book, the message "Changing the Way You Think About the Word Diet" is
offered as a headline. The book does just that. The writers say it
better than I ever could:

"For years - or maybe for all your life - you've probably had one
notion about what dieting needs to be. Restrict your foods, eat like a
supermodel, sweat on the treadmill, and you'll lose fat. In reality,
those could be the very reasons why you couldn't lose weight. It's why
you gained back what you lost. It's the reason why your steamboat
metabolism may have geared down to that of an anchored barge. It's why
you don't see much progress when you try new weight-loss programs. And
it's why the only real recipe many diet plans offer is a recipe for
pecan-encrusted failure."

That's some visual imagery. I like it. A lot. Yeah, it could probably
be boiled down to five or ten pages of text, but for ten bucks, this
book and its philosophy, imo, can't be beat.

And, yes, David Zinczenko (with Ted Spiker) has a good bit of P.T.
Barnum or carnival barker in him, but, imo, this book is not for
suckers*. Zinczenko's enthusiasm leaps from the page. Good information,
visually appealing, right price, and a motivational writing style all
equal a book I'm glad I purchased. Ymmv. ;o)

I also picked up The Abs Diet Eat Right Every Time Guide which includes
789 of what the authors call the best on-the-go food choices. It's
offered as a complete supermarket survival guide and contains 60
six-minute meals for a six-pack.

> Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

--
Curt

Jason Earl wrote:
> "Stephen N." <Steelystephen@coldmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>Jason Earl wrote:
>>
>>>That's a very effective way to learn how to swim. I learned that
>>>way. It was a little scary, but very effective.
>>
>>That's a very effective way to help a kid develop a lifelong dislike
>>of the water. If you throw a person who really cannot swim into the
>>water, he will likely drown. Even if they don't, they will not know
>>how to swim any better than before you threw them in.
>
>
> I disagree. I learned to swim this way and I know quite a few other
> people that learned this way.

I disagree. You may have had motivation for doing more of what you
already knew, but you didn't learn it on your way into the water.

> It's not the way I am teaching my own
> kids to swim, but I have to admit that I learned to swim far earlier
> than they did. I spent most of the summer swimming. I grew up on a
> lake, and was on the swim team starting at age eight.
>
> So clearly this method of learning to swim doesn't traumatize everyone.

So, why not thow your kids into the deep end? It's good for them, right?

> There's really no trick to the dog paddle, and that's where everyone
> starts no matter who is teaching. It's basically simply a measure of
> confidence.

That could be true, if you know what the dog paddle is, an if you are
calm enough to do it for the first time in deep water.
>
>
>>Thrashing around trying not to sink is not swimming. Swimming is
>>propelling yourself through the water.
>
>
> And... I guarantee that the first time you actually swam you didn't
> utilize a perfect crawl stroke.

No I learned by watching and imitating those who could swim. I learned
late, I was 6 and I didn't learn to swim with a proper stoke and
breathing until I was 19 or so, again by watching and listening to
swimming intructors giving others lessons. I went from two lengths to
two miles in one year.

I first took my daughter into the pool when she was about two months old
and she loved the water. I put her in lessons non-stop and she passed
the last Red Cross swim rank when she was 8. We all swam several times
a week for years. About the same thing with my son and both are life
guards now which beats McDonalds as an after school/college part time job.

I am very sure that if I had thrown my son in back then, he would have
sunk and after I fished him out, he would never have gone near the pool
again.

Stephen N.---> the daughter was more of a daredevil, however...

Curt wrote:

[...]

Can you swim Curt?

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:56:40 -0000, "Bully" <bully1@proteinbars.co.ok>
wrote:

>> I had a friend at the gym who worked his ass off every time he was
>> there. He hadn't seen any gains for over a year. It takes more than
>> just hard work to make muscle.
>
>Yes, protein.

Well, calories mostly. But you can get those from protein as well.

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 00:05:13 -0500, JMW
<jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:

>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:39:09 -0500, JMW
>><jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:46:51 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I wasn't terrified. I had never swum before, so I was a bit scared,
>>>>>but my uncle promised he wouldn't let me drown .
>>>>
>>>>If he was there to pull you out than it isn't quite the same. Did he
>>>>actually throw you in?
>>>>
>>>>I started swimming before I can even remember. I always pushed beyond
>>>>what I was supposed to be doing.
>>>
>>>And you continue to exceed your limitations by posting messages on
>>>subjects that are far beyond your mental capacity.
>>
>>I wasn't aware swimming required intelligence.
>
>My comment wasn't limited to swimming. It refers to nearly everything
>that issues forth from your keyboard.

So I should get a new keyboard then. Any recommendations?

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 22:40:49 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
wrote:

>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:46:51 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I wasn't terrified. I had never swum before, so I was a bit scared,
>>>but my uncle promised he wouldn't let me drown .
>>
>> If he was there to pull you out than it isn't quite the same. Did
>> he actually throw you in?
>
>Oh yeah, he threw me in all right. I honestly think that I was mostly
>concerned that I would disappoint him by not being able to swim. I
>really looked up to my uncle (heck, I still do). To say that I
>trusted him would be an understatement. I also was pretty sure he
>wasn't going to fish me out until I was *really* starting to drown.

It really is a bad way to teach people though. You where fortunate to
pull through and make it out o.k. Other people don't make the cut and
it has long term psychological effects. Lots of times people with a
father like that grow up to be sissies. They can never live up to
their fathers expectations of being tough and revert back in the other
direction. And I am not saying there are not fathers out there who
are the complete opposite. Some kids do need a good push.

>> I started swimming before I can even remember. I always pushed
>> beyond what I was supposed to be doing.
>
>I started swimming before I was five. It's one of my earliest
>memories. As things go it was a pretty memorable way to learn to
>swim.

I think learning early is the best way.

Shute wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 00:05:13 -0500, JMW
> <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>
> >Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:39:09 -0500, JMW
> >><jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:46:51 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>I wasn't terrified. I had never swum before, so I was a bit scared,
> >>>>>but my uncle promised he wouldn't let me drown .
> >>>>
> >>>>If he was there to pull you out than it isn't quite the same. Did he
> >>>>actually throw you in?
> >>>>
> >>>>I started swimming before I can even remember. I always pushed beyond
> >>>>what I was supposed to be doing.
> >>>
> >>>And you continue to exceed your limitations by posting messages on
> >>>subjects that are far beyond your mental capacity.
> >>
> >>I wasn't aware swimming required intelligence.
> >
> >My comment wasn't limited to swimming. It refers to nearly everything
> >that issues forth from your keyboard.
>
> So I should get a new keyboard then. Any recommendations?

One that you can reach without sitting on the Boston Yellow Pages?

Shute wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 00:05:13 -0500, JMW
> <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>
>> Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:39:09 -0500, JMW
>>> <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:46:51 -0700, Jason Earl
>>>>> <jearl@xmission.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I wasn't terrified. I had never swum before, so I was a bit
>>>>>> scared, but my uncle promised he wouldn't let me drown .
>>>>>
>>>>> If he was there to pull you out than it isn't quite the same.
>>>>> Did he actually throw you in?
>>>>>
>>>>> I started swimming before I can even remember. I always pushed
>>>>> beyond what I was supposed to be doing.
>>>>
>>>> And you continue to exceed your limitations by posting messages on
>>>> subjects that are far beyond your mental capacity.
>>>
>>> I wasn't aware swimming required intelligence.
>>
>> My comment wasn't limited to swimming. It refers to nearly
>> everything that issues forth from your keyboard.
>
> So I should get a new keyboard then. Any recommendations?

hahaha.....good response

On 9 Nov 2006 10:18:40 -0800, "JMW" <jmwilliams_56@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Shute wrote:
>> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 00:05:13 -0500, JMW
>> <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:39:09 -0500, JMW
>> >><jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Shute <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:46:51 -0700, Jason Earl <jearl@xmission.com>
>> >>>>wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>I wasn't terrified. I had never swum before, so I was a bit scared,
>> >>>>>but my uncle promised he wouldn't let me drown .
>> >>>>
>> >>>>If he was there to pull you out than it isn't quite the same. Did he
>> >>>>actually throw you in?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I started swimming before I can even remember. I always pushed beyond
>> >>>>what I was supposed to be doing.
>> >>>
>> >>>And you continue to exceed your limitations by posting messages on
>> >>>subjects that are far beyond your mental capacity.
>> >>
>> >>I wasn't aware swimming required intelligence.
>> >
>> >My comment wasn't limited to swimming. It refers to nearly everything
>> >that issues forth from your keyboard.
>>
>> So I should get a new keyboard then. Any recommendations?
>
>One that you can reach without sitting on the Boston Yellow Pages?

That's more like it John boy, a little dash of humour! ;o)

Bully wrote:
> Curt wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Can you swim Curt?

The archives are wasted on you, Bully. Wasted.

And what's that catchy Neil (or is it Niel? WHO CARES?) directed quote?

FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU YOOOOOOOOUUUUU!!!!!! )

Hth.

> Bully
> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

Curt
Clif bars: http://www.clifbar.com/

Looky there! Something perhaps USEFUL to MFW patrons.

--

Curt wrote:
> Bully wrote:
>> Curt wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> Can you swim Curt?
>
> The archives are wasted on you, Bully. Wasted.
>
> And what's that catchy Neil (or is it Niel? WHO CARES?) directed
> quote?
>
> FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU YOOOOOOOOUUUUU!!!!!! )
>
> Hth.

It would if you even had the faintest idea about the above quote!

>> Bully
>> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>
> Curt
> Clif bars: http://www.clifbar.com/
>
> Looky there! Something perhaps USEFUL to MFW patrons.



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

<shoemakerted@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1162925474.921345.168260@h54g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> Hello,
>
> When I was a kid, I did NOT like exercise or PE class. Now that I'm an
> adult, I spoke to a trainer, asking for advice on exercise. He
> recommended some exercises that were surely good, but it was all too
> much for me. I need to start simply: let's climb the hill by the park,
> before we climb Mount Everest. Hey, let's climb the *speed bump*
> before that!
>
> I'm age 48 and definitely out of shape. So, what would you recommend
> for someone like me?
>
> Also, I would like for my kids to have a chance at better fitness than
> I've got. They are, presently, ages 11-16, and some of them dislike
> exercise as much as I did. What kinds of start-at-the-beginning
> exercises would you recommend for them?
>
> In particular, let's NOT do the exercises that would help them lose
> weight. They don't need that.
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Ted Shoemaker
>

As others have suggested,

.. just get moving
.. walking is a great way to start
.. do a physical activity you enjoy so you will continue to do it

Consistency is very important. Even if it is just one 10 minute session
a week, it is better than nothing.

I will make some assumptions here. There is no problem with your
balance and you are probably overweight. You state that your children do
not need to lose weight.

You and your children should probably work on the remaining components
of physical fitness: strength, endurance, flexibility, and plyometric
ability (explosiveness). You and your kids should start eating healthfully.
Unless you are obese, a "diet" really shouldn't be necessary as long as you
exercise and eat properly.

One thing that you will find is that it is very easy to overdo it at the
beginning and become discouraged. This can also apply to out of shape
children. I strongly advise you to get a heart rate monitor. As you state
you are out of shape, you will be surprised at just how easy it will be for
you to bring your heart rate up to a very high rate without much effort.
There are many books and websites with programs that ease people into
regular exercise who are out of shape and in their forties or older. The
endurance part usually centers around training to a heart rate so you don't
overdo it. When it comes to weight lifting, very small increments over time
in additional weight will enable you to eventually lift greater weights in a
non-discouraging and safe manner.

Another thing you, but not your children, will find is that you don't
recover as fast as you did when you were in your twenties. You will
probably have to wait longer between sets, perhaps up to three minutes. You
will also find that you can rip and tear things much more easily so slow and
steady, with proper form, is a must. I have minor tears in the muscles all
around my shins because I thought I could still run on asphalt instead of
forcing myself to run only on a track.

Good Luck.

Good one.
Wish he'd hurry up and sink to the bottom.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:9gq4l2l853ahb62ki43g8i702vtcp8aub5@4ax.com...
> On 8 Nov 2006 15:06:59 -0800, "JMW" <jmwilliams_56@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Shute wrote:
>>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 03:12:32 -0500, JMW
>>> <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Yes, Andrzej, that was a well rationalized self-justification. With a
>>> >little extra courage, you may learn to accept it for what it is. It's
>>> >called the BUTCH THE FUCK UP approach. You see, it been recognized
>>> >for over a decade in this newsgroup that those who allow themselves to
>>> >whine and avoid effort will never be effective at strength training.
>>> >I realize, of course, that such concepts are anathema to the friendly
>>> >butt-kissers and hand-holders who see themselves as The New World
>>> >Order of this newsgroup, but that's just the way it is.
>>>
>>> I had a friend at the gym who worked his ass off every time he was
>>> there. He hadn't seen any gains for over a year. It takes more than
>>> just hard work to make muscle.
>>>
>>> You sound like the type of guy that would trhough someone in the water
>>> to teach them to swim.
>>
>>I suspect there are people here who would like to throw *you* into the
>>water without caring whether you can swim or not.
>
> Seems you have already been thrown in. You are drowning and
> desperately reaching for something to hold onto.
>
>
>