Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program

Well, I finally bought the Anthony Ellis program (a). Previous to this,
my program was from the book, Body Sculpting Bible for Men (b). I've
been using (b) for a long time, and I got great results from it. The
fellas in the gym say all the time my shoulders are expanding. Of
course, this is a contrast from being 147 to 160. That's what they were
seeing. I took off 7 days, and lost the swell, and then they were quick
to point that out.

But before all of this, I wanted to try out Anthony Ellis' program, but
it cost so much that I said I'll get it at the end of the year. I just
ordered it a couple of days ago; it should be coming soon. However, the
first 30 pages of his book are online in his Inner Circle site.

Anthony Ellis says that to bulk up:
1. Lift so heavy that you fail between 4 and 8 reps.
2. Lift only 3 days per week (assumes full body split).

The Body Sculpting Bible's routine is 6 days per week also lift heavy
like a mofo:
Mon: Chest & Back
Tue: Arms and Shoulders
Wed: Legs
Thurs: Chest & Back
Fri: Arms & Shoulders
Sat: Legs
Sun: Rest and eat whatever you want.

With the (b), I got great results. Anthony Ellis says go to the gym
half as much. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I want results. Is
this right? Mike Mentzer preaches the same thing.

I'm almost thinking the Anthony Ellis book is bogus. What do you think?
Do you lift heavy 6 or 3 days per week?

SEAL

"SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote in message
news:gV2ah.6454$yf7.4121@newssvr21.news.prodigy.ne t...
> Well, I finally bought the Anthony Ellis program (a). Previous to this,
> my program was from the book, Body Sculpting Bible for Men (b).

That title should be enough to give you douchechills.

I've
> been using (b) for a long time, and I got great results from it. The
> fellas in the gym say all the time my shoulders are expanding. Of
> course, this is a contrast from being 147 to 160. That's what they were
> seeing. I took off 7 days, and lost the swell, and then they were quick
> to point that out.

The swell?

Don't ask, don't tell.


>
> But before all of this, I wanted to try out Anthony Ellis' program, but
> it cost so much that I said I'll get it at the end of the year. I just
> ordered it a couple of days ago; it should be coming soon. However, the
> first 30 pages of his book are online in his Inner Circle site.

And you just can't wait to start making those scary gains!

>
> Anthony Ellis says that to bulk up:
> 1. Lift so heavy that you fail between 4 and 8 reps.
> 2. Lift only 3 days per week (assumes full body split).
>
> The Body Sculpting Bible's routine is 6 days per week also lift heavy
> like a mofo:
> Mon: Chest & Back
> Tue: Arms and Shoulders
> Wed: Legs
> Thurs: Chest & Back
> Fri: Arms & Shoulders
> Sat: Legs
> Sun: Rest and eat whatever you want.
>
> With the (b), I got great results. Anthony Ellis says go to the gym
> half as much. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I want results. Is
> this right? Mike Mentzer preaches the same thing.

Really? If you get a chance to see him speaking in person, don't pass it up.
>
> I'm almost thinking the Anthony Ellis book is bogus. What do you think?

I think it's another program that probably fits into the broad spectrum of
workable programs. To paraphrase Lyle, pretty much any non-retarded weight
training program will give results. There is no perfect program and the
marketing gurus of fitness books have no special answers.

> Do you lift heavy 6 or 3 days per week?
>
> SEAL

Frequency and intensity are two variables you can adjust based on your
ability to recover, other physical activity you're engaging in and the
duration of a particular program. Get plenty of sleep and don't get into
chronic overtraining. DAGS on overtraining and watch for the symptoms.

Dnia 2006-11-25 SEAL napisa³(a):
> Well, I finally bought the Anthony Ellis program (a). Previous to this,
> my program was from the book, Body Sculpting Bible for Men (b). I've
> been using (b) for a long time, and I got great results from it.

As long as it's working, do not change it.

[...]
> Anthony Ellis says that to bulk up:
> 1. Lift so heavy that you fail between 4 and 8 reps.
> 2. Lift only 3 days per week (assumes full body split).

As long as your current routine is working, do not improve it. It
ain't broke, doan fix it. But 3 days a week full body workouts aren't
bad choice.

> The Body Sculpting Bible's routine is 6 days per week also lift heavy
> like a mofo:
>
> Mon: Chest & Back
> Tue: Arms and Shoulders
> Wed: Legs
> Thurs: Chest & Back
> Fri: Arms & Shoulders
> Sat: Legs
> Sun: Rest and eat whatever you want.

Good routine. IMHO better than 3 days a week full body, at least for
bodybuilding purposes. If you want something in between, do push-pull
or upper-lower split. Works well too.

> With the (b), I got great results. Anthony Ellis says go to the gym
> half as much. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I want results. Is
> this right? Mike Mentzer preaches the same thing.

Frequency in general works better for me. I tried what Mike Mentzer
preached and I got no results besides injury. And he's dead. All
reasons to doubt that all this high intensity stuff is actually working
well.

> I'm almost thinking the Anthony Ellis book is bogus. What do you think?
> Do you lift heavy 6 or 3 days per week?

It's hard to lift heavy 6 days a week. Watch for signs of overtraining
and ease up from time to time. Do not always push yourself hard, make
some easy work outs too. Eat a lot. All macro nutrients are equally
important, which means that you need fat (solid fats too), carbs and
protein.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

ATP* wrote:
> "SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote in message
> news:gV2ah.6454$yf7.4121@newssvr21.news.prodigy.ne t...
>> Well, I finally bought the Anthony Ellis program (a). Previous to this,
>> my program was from the book, Body Sculpting Bible for Men (b).
>
> That title should be enough to give you douchechills.
>
> I've
>> been using (b) for a long time, and I got great results from it. The
>> fellas in the gym say all the time my shoulders are expanding. Of
>> course, this is a contrast from being 147 to 160. That's what they were
>> seeing. I took off 7 days, and lost the swell, and then they were quick
>> to point that out.
>
> The swell?

Also known as the pump. I think it's technically called "hypertrophy".
After 7 days of not lifting but the remote control, I lost the pump,
the swell, hypertrophy, and the definition.

> Don't ask, don't tell.
>
>
>> But before all of this, I wanted to try out Anthony Ellis' program, but
>> it cost so much that I said I'll get it at the end of the year. I just
>> ordered it a couple of days ago; it should be coming soon. However, the
>> first 30 pages of his book are online in his Inner Circle site.
>
> And you just can't wait to start making those scary gains!

Another asshole in the newsgroup, what a surprise.

>> Anthony Ellis says that to bulk up:
>> 1. Lift so heavy that you fail between 4 and 8 reps.
>> 2. Lift only 3 days per week (assumes full body split).
>>
>> The Body Sculpting Bible's routine is 6 days per week also lift heavy
>> like a mofo:
>> Mon: Chest & Back
>> Tue: Arms and Shoulders
>> Wed: Legs
>> Thurs: Chest & Back
>> Fri: Arms & Shoulders
>> Sat: Legs
>> Sun: Rest and eat whatever you want.
>>
>> With the (b), I got great results. Anthony Ellis says go to the gym
>> half as much. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I want results. Is
>> this right? Mike Mentzer preaches the same thing.
>
> Really? If you get a chance to see him speaking in person, don't pass it up.
>> I'm almost thinking the Anthony Ellis book is bogus. What do you think?
>
> I think it's another program that probably fits into the broad spectrum of
> workable programs. To paraphrase Lyle, pretty much any non-retarded weight
> training program will give results. There is no perfect program and the
> marketing gurus of fitness books have no special answers.
>
>> Do you lift heavy 6 or 3 days per week?
>>
>> SEAL
>
> Frequency and intensity are two variables you can adjust based on your
> ability to recover, other physical activity you're engaging in and the
> duration of a particular program. Get plenty of sleep and don't get into
> chronic overtraining. DAGS on overtraining and watch for the symptoms.
>
>

Andrzej Rosa wrote:
> Dnia 2006-11-25 SEAL napisa³(a):
>> Well, I finally bought the Anthony Ellis program (a). Previous to this,
>> my program was from the book, Body Sculpting Bible for Men (b). I've
>> been using (b) for a long time, and I got great results from it.
>
> As long as it's working, do not change it.

Good point.

> [...]
>> Anthony Ellis says that to bulk up:
>> 1. Lift so heavy that you fail between 4 and 8 reps.
>> 2. Lift only 3 days per week (assumes full body split).
>
> As long as your current routine is working, do not improve it. It
> ain't broke, doan fix it. But 3 days a week full body workouts aren't
> bad choice.

I think Ellis is proposing to do only the Mon, Tue, Wed part of my
current routine.

>> The Body Sculpting Bible's routine is 6 days per week also lift heavy
>> like a mofo:
>>
>> Mon: Chest & Back
>> Tue: Arms and Shoulders
>> Wed: Legs
>> Thurs: Chest & Back
>> Fri: Arms & Shoulders
>> Sat: Legs
>> Sun: Rest and eat whatever you want.
>
> Good routine. IMHO better than 3 days a week full body, at least for
> bodybuilding purposes. If you want something in between, do push-pull
> or upper-lower split. Works well too.
>
>> With the (b), I got great results. Anthony Ellis says go to the gym
>> half as much. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I want results. Is
>> this right? Mike Mentzer preaches the same thing.
>
> Frequency in general works better for me. I tried what Mike Mentzer
> preached and I got no results besides injury. And he's dead. All
> reasons to doubt that all this high intensity stuff is actually working
> well.

Yeah, and he croaked at 50 too.

>> I'm almost thinking the Anthony Ellis book is bogus. What do you think?
>> Do you lift heavy 6 or 3 days per week?
>
> It's hard to lift heavy 6 days a week. Watch for signs of overtraining
> and ease up from time to time. Do not always push yourself hard, make
> some easy work outs too. Eat a lot. All macro nutrients are equally
> important, which means that you need fat (solid fats too), carbs and
> protein.

I do hit overtraining sometimes, and I noticed it when I can't even grip
the weight to do dumbbell rows. My fist just won't close. But when I
get that I either do something else, or walk out of the gym and come
back later.

Thanks for the good advice.

"SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote in message
news:jw7ah.9796$6t.9625@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com ...
> ATP* wrote:
>> "SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote in message
>> news:gV2ah.6454$yf7.4121@newssvr21.news.prodigy.ne t...
>>> Well, I finally bought the Anthony Ellis program (a). Previous to this,
>>> my program was from the book, Body Sculpting Bible for Men (b).
>>
>> That title should be enough to give you douchechills.
>>
>> I've
>>> been using (b) for a long time, and I got great results from it. The
>>> fellas in the gym say all the time my shoulders are expanding. Of
>>> course, this is a contrast from being 147 to 160. That's what they were
>>> seeing. I took off 7 days, and lost the swell, and then they were quick
>>> to point that out.
>>
>> The swell?
>
> Also known as the pump. I think it's technically called "hypertrophy".
> After 7 days of not lifting but the remote control, I lost the pump,
> the swell, hypertrophy, and the definition.

Hypertrophy is muscle growth. You don't lose a significant amount of
hypertrophy in 7 days. You might have gained a few pounds of fat and lost
definition with that crazy diet you're on. Pump is something else and quite
temporary. Pump is for the pretty boys doing "curls for the girls" in the
power cage. The "body sculpting" crowd.


>> Don't ask, don't tell.
>>
>>
>>> But before all of this, I wanted to try out Anthony Ellis' program, but
>>> it cost so much that I said I'll get it at the end of the year. I just
>>> ordered it a couple of days ago; it should be coming soon. However, the
>>> first 30 pages of his book are online in his Inner Circle site.
>>
>> And you just can't wait to start making those scary gains!
>
> Another asshole in the newsgroup, what a surprise.

An asshole who has no interest in your money. But you don't need us if
you're in Anthony Ellis's Inner Circle.

Apparently you're young, dumb and full of ......enthusiasm. Just don't waste
your money and enthusiasm on fitness gurus and protein powder. There is
plenty of good advice on this newsgroup if you can wade through the flame
wars.

"ATP*" <waxwingslain@azurepane.com> wrote:
>
>Apparently you're young, dumb and full of ......enthusiasm. Just don't waste
>your money and enthusiasm on fitness gurus and protein powder. There is
>plenty of good advice on this newsgroup if you can wade through the flame
>wars.

NO, DAMMIT!!!!!!!! He wants the Ideal Magic Training Program®!!!!!!
He knows it's out there; he just has to buy the right book!

Dnia 2006-11-26 SEAL napisa³(a):
> Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>> It's hard to lift heavy 6 days a week. Watch for signs of overtraining
>> and ease up from time to time. Do not always push yourself hard, make
>> some easy work outs too. Eat a lot. All macro nutrients are equally
>> important, which means that you need fat (solid fats too), carbs and
>> protein.
>
> I do hit overtraining sometimes, and I noticed it when I can't even grip
> the weight to do dumbbell rows. My fist just won't close. But when I
> get that I either do something else, or walk out of the gym and come
> back later.

The way you describe it, it doesn't look like overtraining. It rather
looks like your grip is failing you on your back day. Common thing,
which should improve over time.

Overtraining is when training stimulus you inflict upon yourself is
greater then your recovery ability for a long time. Let's say, several
months, or so. It looks like you train hard, but you constantly become
more tired, less focused, less enthusiastic with your lifting, your
performance goes down, you feel depressed, irritable, you sleep badly
and so on.

If it happens, lighten your work outs or stay away from gym for a
while. You should be able to recover then, and make new progress.
But it must take long time to really kick in. Short term
"overtraining", like several weeks, is called overreaching and isn't
totally useless. You exceed your recovery ability, but for a short
time only, so once you back off you should experience good progress.
Planned overreaching is often a part of many training programs. For a
beginner playing around the edge is probably not much useful, so do not
go totally crazy with your workouts.

Finally, some people like to say, that there is no such a thing like
overtraining, only undersleeping and undereating. It's simplification,
but there is something to it.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Dnia 2006-11-26 ATP* napisa³(a):
>
> "SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote in message
> news:jw7ah.9796$6t.9625@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com ...
>>>
>>> The swell?
>>
>> Also known as the pump. I think it's technically called "hypertrophy".
>> After 7 days of not lifting but the remote control, I lost the pump,
>> the swell, hypertrophy, and the definition.
>
> Hypertrophy is muscle growth. You don't lose a significant amount of
> hypertrophy in 7 days. You might have gained a few pounds of fat and lost
> definition with that crazy diet you're on. Pump is something else and quite
> temporary. Pump is for the pretty boys doing "curls for the girls" in the
> power cage. The "body sculpting" crowd.

I think he was right when he described it as simply a swell. At
least my muscles do look bigger for a day or more ofter I work them
out. I always thought that they are actually swollen, due to trauma of
training, but whatever it is, it's neither pump nor hypertrophy.

Regarding pump being useful only for "body sculpting crowd" I remember
reading about powerlifters doing high rep triceps work, quite like
bodybuilders. Training triceps with bad elbows becomes difficult and
this pump-like approach made it possible. Also, something good was
supposed to happen with recovery.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ekbaff$ros$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Dnia 2006-11-26 SEAL napisa³(a):
>> Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>> It's hard to lift heavy 6 days a week. Watch for signs of overtraining
>>> and ease up from time to time. Do not always push yourself hard, make
>>> some easy work outs too. Eat a lot. All macro nutrients are equally
>>> important, which means that you need fat (solid fats too), carbs and
>>> protein.
>>
>> I do hit overtraining sometimes, and I noticed it when I can't even grip
>> the weight to do dumbbell rows. My fist just won't close. But when I
>> get that I either do something else, or walk out of the gym and come
>> back later.
>
> The way you describe it, it doesn't look like overtraining. It rather
> looks like your grip is failing you on your back day. Common thing,
> which should improve over time.

Andrzej, this is your fault for introducing the term overtraining into this
thread!!! 99.9% of people will never train hard enough, often enough or
consistently enough to induce overtraining.


>
> Overtraining is when training stimulus you inflict upon yourself is
> greater then your recovery ability for a long time. Let's say, several
> months, or so. It looks like you train hard, but you constantly become
> more tired, less focused, less enthusiastic with your lifting, your
> performance goes down, you feel depressed, irritable, you sleep badly
> and so on.
>
> If it happens, lighten your work outs or stay away from gym for a
> while. You should be able to recover then, and make new progress.
> But it must take long time to really kick in. Short term
> "overtraining", like several weeks, is called overreaching and isn't
> totally useless. You exceed your recovery ability, but for a short
> time only, so once you back off you should experience good progress.
> Planned overreaching is often a part of many training programs. For a
> beginner playing around the edge is probably not much useful, so do not
> go totally crazy with your workouts.

Thank you for clarifying but soooo much easier not to mention it in the
first place!!!

>
> Finally, some people like to say, that there is no such a thing like
> overtraining, only undersleeping and undereating. It's simplification,
> but there is something to it.

Yeah but when you are truly overtrained sleep becomes a problem [you wake at
4.00AM wondering if you missed your morning workout] so you don't have a
choice!!!


--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter,
and those who matter don't mind."
- Dr. Seuss

In article <jw7ah.9796$6t.9625@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, SEAL
<usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote:


>
> Also known as the pump. I think it's technically called "hypertrophy".

No it's not. The pump you get has zip to do with hypertrophy. BTW, most
people on my forums have generally been happy with Ellis's program.

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 08:51:51 -0000, "Bully" <bully1@proteinbars.co.ok>
wrote:

>Andrzej, this is your fault for introducing the term overtraining into this
>thread!!! 99.9% of people will never train hard enough, often enough or
>consistently enough to induce overtraining.

I doubt that. I think a lot of people overtrain. I think you are
confusing intensity with overtraining.

>Yeah but when you are truly overtrained sleep becomes a problem [you wake at
>4.00AM wondering if you missed your morning workout] so you don't have a
>choice!!!

Not for me. I don't feel like going back to the gym at all when I get
overtrained. And training hard makes me sleep like a baby.

Dnia 2006-11-26 Shute napisa³(a):
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 08:51:51 -0000, "Bully" <bully1@proteinbars.co.ok>
> wrote:
>
>>Andrzej, this is your fault for introducing the term overtraining into this
>>thread!!! 99.9% of people will never train hard enough, often enough or
>>consistently enough to induce overtraining.
>
> I doubt that. I think a lot of people overtrain.

Not really.

> I think you are
> confusing intensity with overtraining.

I think, it's you who might confuse it.

>>Yeah but when you are truly overtrained sleep becomes a problem [you wake at
>>4.00AM wondering if you missed your morning workout] so you don't have a
>>choice!!!
>
> Not for me. I don't feel like going back to the gym at all when I get
> overtrained. And training hard makes me sleep like a baby.

So you aren't overtraining. You can push like that further, until
you will experience symptoms Bully describes, and keep pushing for
several months longer. Then you'll overtrain and be in troubles.
Serious overtraining is no joke. In general you overstimulate your
system which produces a lot of cortisol. After a while lots of bad
things start to happen.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Dnia 2006-11-26 Bully napisa³(a):
> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ekbaff$ros$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>>
>> Finally, some people like to say, that there is no such a thing like
>> overtraining, only undersleeping and undereating. It's simplification,
>> but there is something to it.
>
> Yeah but when you are truly overtrained sleep becomes a problem [you wake at
> 4.00AM wondering if you missed your morning workout] so you don't have a
> choice!!!

You had your choice earlier. When you decided to train hard and forget
about sleep and nutrition.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

ATP* wrote:

> Hypertrophy is muscle growth. You don't lose a significant amount of
> hypertrophy in 7 days. You might have gained a few pounds of fat and lost
> definition with that crazy diet you're on. Pump is something else and quite
> temporary. Pump is for the pretty boys doing "curls for the girls" in the
> power cage. The "body sculpting" crowd.

Are we really splitting hairs? You knew what I meant, but you were just
looking for something to pick on. Silly me, I gave it to you. But
whatever it is called, 7 days was enough to lose a lot of it.

> An asshole who has no interest in your money. But you don't need us if
> you're in Anthony Ellis's Inner Circle.

But an asshole who is very lonely, pretends to be some sort of a hotshot
in a newsgroup and hijacks threads because whatever kind the attention
whether positive or negative fills the void that mom and dad never gave
or could have but was reluctant to give specifically to you and being
friendless thus having only this newsgroup for some much-needed
interaction. If you read my post initially, I think you would have
gotten the hint that I'm trying the program out, but hey, you're all
braun no brain... wait, certainly not even braun.

> Apparently you're young, dumb and full of ......enthusiasm. Just don't waste
> your money and enthusiasm on fitness gurus and protein powder. There is
> plenty of good advice on this newsgroup if you can wade through the flame
> wars.

I don't claim to be an expert, and I openly admit that I use books to
guide me because otherwise, I wouldn't know how to get started. Unlike
you, I don't think I know everything.

With all the energy you've put into flaming (I mean in this thread, not
in your real life), try to actually give some good advice instead.

SEAL

"SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote in message
news:nYrah.31133$yl4.23716@newssvr12.news.prodigy. com...
> ATP* wrote:
>
>> Hypertrophy is muscle growth. You don't lose a significant amount of
>> hypertrophy in 7 days. You might have gained a few pounds of fat and lost
>> definition with that crazy diet you're on. Pump is something else and
>> quite
>> temporary. Pump is for the pretty boys doing "curls for the girls" in the
>> power cage. The "body sculpting" crowd.
>
> Are we really splitting hairs? You knew what I meant, but you were just
> looking for something to pick on. Silly me, I gave it to you. But
> whatever it is called, 7 days was enough to lose a lot of it.

I still have no idea what you were talking about, except that you apparently
spend a lot of time looking at mirrors and your friends are checking your
"swell".

>
>> An asshole who has no interest in your money. But you don't need us if
>> you're in Anthony Ellis's Inner Circle.
>
> But an asshole who is very lonely, pretends to be some sort of a hotshot
> in a newsgroup and hijacks threads because whatever kind the attention
> whether positive or negative fills the void that mom and dad never gave
> or could have but was reluctant to give specifically to you and being
> friendless thus having only this newsgroup for some much-needed
> interaction. If you read my post initially, I think you would have
> gotten the hint that I'm trying the program out, but hey, you're all
> braun no brain... wait, certainly not even braun.

Eva Braun?

>
>> Apparently you're young, dumb and full of ......enthusiasm. Just don't
>> waste
>> your money and enthusiasm on fitness gurus and protein powder. There is
>> plenty of good advice on this newsgroup if you can wade through the flame
>> wars.
>
> I don't claim to be an expert, and I openly admit that I use books to
> guide me because otherwise, I wouldn't know how to get started. Unlike
> you, I don't think I know everything.

Books are fine. You don't seem to be understanding much of what you read.
>
> With all the energy you've put into flaming (I mean in this thread, not
> in your real life), try to actually give some good advice instead.
>
> SEAL

Wannabe SEAL, right?

"ATP*" <waxwingslain@azurepane.com> wrote
> "SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote >> ATP* wrote:
>>
>>> Hypertrophy is muscle growth. You don't lose a significant amount of
>>> hypertrophy in 7 days. You might have gained a few pounds of fat and
>>> lost
>>> definition with that crazy diet you're on. Pump is something else and
>>> quite
>>> temporary. Pump is for the pretty boys doing "curls for the girls" in
>>> the
>>> power cage. The "body sculpting" crowd.
>>
>> Are we really splitting hairs? You knew what I meant, but you were just
>> looking for something to pick on. Silly me, I gave it to you. But
>> whatever it is called, 7 days was enough to lose a lot of it.
>
> I still have no idea what you were talking about, except that you
> apparently spend a lot of time looking at mirrors and your friends are
> checking your "swell".
>
>>> An asshole who has no interest in your money. But you don't need us if
>>> you're in Anthony Ellis's Inner Circle.
>>
>> But an asshole who is very lonely, pretends to be some sort of a hotshot
>> in a newsgroup and hijacks threads because whatever kind the attention
>> whether positive or negative fills the void that mom and dad never gave
>> or could have but was reluctant to give specifically to you and being
>> friendless thus having only this newsgroup for some much-needed
>> interaction. If you read my post initially, I think you would have
>> gotten the hint that I'm trying the program out, but hey, you're all
>> braun no brain... wait, certainly not even braun.
>
> Eva Braun?
>
>>> Apparently you're young, dumb and full of ......enthusiasm. Just don't
>>> waste
>>> your money and enthusiasm on fitness gurus and protein powder. There is
>>> plenty of good advice on this newsgroup if you can wade through the
>>> flame
>>> wars.
>>
>> I don't claim to be an expert, and I openly admit that I use books to
>> guide me because otherwise, I wouldn't know how to get started. Unlike
>> you, I don't think I know everything.
>
> Books are fine. You don't seem to be understanding much of what you read.
>>
>> With all the energy you've put into flaming (I mean in this thread, not
>> in your real life), try to actually give some good advice instead.
>>
>> SEAL
>
> Wannabe SEAL, right?

Maybe he just really likes Heidi Klum.

David

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:50:48 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
<bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:

>So you aren't overtraining. You can push like that further, until
>you will experience symptoms Bully describes, and keep pushing for
>several months longer. Then you'll overtrain and be in troubles.
>Serious overtraining is no joke. In general you overstimulate your
>system which produces a lot of cortisol. After a while lots of bad
>things start to happen.

Then I guess I don't know what you guys are talking about.
Overtraining in my book is going to the point where results have
negative effects. Apparently you are talking about going further
towards death or something. Most normal people break down like I
described long before they reach that level of training. Only a few
idiots like that Nicole Richie chick end up in hospitals.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 02:21:07 GMT, SEAL <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com>
wrote:

>I don't claim to be an expert, and I openly admit that I use books to
>guide me because otherwise, I wouldn't know how to get started. Unlike
>you, I don't think I know everything.
>
>With all the energy you've put into flaming (I mean in this thread, not
>in your real life), try to actually give some good advice instead.

ATP has a few buddies in here just like him. They pick at every
little thing others say but rarely offer any original advice of their
own. Then accuse you of claiming to be an expert.

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 23:11:16 -0500, "ATP*"
<waxwingslain@azurepane.com> wrote:

>I still have no idea what you were talking about, except that you apparently
>spend a lot of time looking at mirrors and your friends are checking your
>"swell".

I knew what he was talking about as soon as he said pump. And any
normal person is going to track progress by looking in a mirror and
acknowledging other peoples comments. It shows your making progress
much more then a bunch of numbers. Maybe you have forgotten what
progress is.

David Cohen wrote:
> "ATP*" <waxwingslain@azurepane.com> wrote
> > "SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote >> ATP* wrote:

> >> SEAL
> >
> > Wannabe SEAL, right?
>
> Maybe he just really likes Heidi Klum.
>
> David

Who doesn't?
ps

Dnia 2006-11-27 Shute napisa³(a):
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:50:48 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
><bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>So you aren't overtraining. You can push like that further, until
>>you will experience symptoms Bully describes, and keep pushing for
>>several months longer. Then you'll overtrain and be in troubles.
>>Serious overtraining is no joke. In general you overstimulate your
>>system which produces a lot of cortisol. After a while lots of bad
>>things start to happen.
>
> Then I guess I don't know what you guys are talking about.
> Overtraining in my book is going to the point where results have
> negative effects.

How do you know when your results start to have negative effects?
How do you know when you cross past diminishing returns into no
returns at all? It's not so easy to guess if you do not pay attention
to various symptoms of overreaching and overtraining.

> Apparently you are talking about going further
> towards death or something.

Well, depression is common among overtrained athletes, so some of them
can even die.

> Most normal people break down like I
> described long before they reach that level of training. Only a few
> idiots like that Nicole Richie chick end up in hospitals.

Pro athletes at times do overtrain. Most normal people get injured or
catch a flue before they have a chance to overdo things so far. Some
people have lower tolerance for stress, and they don't have to go crazy
in the gym to get overtrained. Perfectly normal person going through
hard times in life can overtrain by simply maintaining his former
routine. Also age plays a role, too. Actually, having normal life and
trying to push it hard in the gym can lead to overtraining in plenty of
ambitious people. Normal people often shorten their sleep to make time
for gym and other exercises. Lack of sleep will brake strongest guys.

And then the vicious cycle begins. You can't recover because you can't
sleep which leads to even worse sleep and even worse recovery. It's
much better to be smart than only tough.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Shute wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 08:51:51 -0000, "Bully" <bully1@proteinbars.co.ok>
> wrote:
>
>> Andrzej, this is your fault for introducing the term overtraining
>> into this thread!!! 99.9% of people will never train hard enough,
>> often enough or consistently enough to induce overtraining.
>
> I doubt that. I think a lot of people overtrain. I think you are
> confusing intensity with overtraining.

Try a Google on "over training syndrome" before you post on the topic again.

>
>> Yeah but when you are truly overtrained sleep becomes a problem [you
>> wake at
>> 4.00AM wondering if you missed your morning workout] so you don't
>> have a choice!!!
>
> Not for me. I don't feel like going back to the gym at all when I get
> overtrained. And training hard makes me sleep like a baby.

Try a Google on "over training syndrome" before you post on the topic again.

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Shute wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:50:48 +0000 (UTC), Andrzej Rosa
> <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> So you aren't overtraining. You can push like that further, until
>> you will experience symptoms Bully describes, and keep pushing for
>> several months longer. Then you'll overtrain and be in troubles.
>> Serious overtraining is no joke. In general you overstimulate your
>> system which produces a lot of cortisol. After a while lots of bad
>> things start to happen.
>
> Then I guess I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Try a Google on "over training syndrome" before you post on the topic again.

> Overtraining in my book is going to the point where results have
> negative effects. Apparently you are talking about going further
> towards death or something. Most normal people break down like I
> described long before they reach that level of training. Only a few
> idiots like that Nicole Richie chick end up in hospitals.

Try a Google on "over training syndrome" before you post on the topic again.

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Andrzej Rosa wrote:
> Dnia 2006-11-26 Bully napisa³(a):
>> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:ekbaff$ros$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>>>
>>> Finally, some people like to say, that there is no such a thing like
>>> overtraining, only undersleeping and undereating. It's
>>> simplification, but there is something to it.
>>
>> Yeah but when you are truly overtrained sleep becomes a problem [you
>> wake at
>> 4.00AM wondering if you missed your morning workout] so you don't
>> have a choice!!!
>
> You had your choice earlier. When you decided to train hard and
> forget about sleep and nutrition.

That's about how it happens !


--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

"David Cohen" <sammiesdad@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:LDtah.3558$ql2.2069@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>
> "ATP*" <waxwingslain@azurepane.com> wrote
>> "SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote >> ATP* wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hypertrophy is muscle growth. You don't lose a significant amount of
>>>> hypertrophy in 7 days. You might have gained a few pounds of fat and
>>>> lost
>>>> definition with that crazy diet you're on. Pump is something else and
>>>> quite
>>>> temporary. Pump is for the pretty boys doing "curls for the girls" in
>>>> the
>>>> power cage. The "body sculpting" crowd.
>>>
>>> Are we really splitting hairs? You knew what I meant, but you were just
>>> looking for something to pick on. Silly me, I gave it to you. But
>>> whatever it is called, 7 days was enough to lose a lot of it.
>>
>> I still have no idea what you were talking about, except that you
>> apparently spend a lot of time looking at mirrors and your friends are
>> checking your "swell".
>>
>>>> An asshole who has no interest in your money. But you don't need us if
>>>> you're in Anthony Ellis's Inner Circle.
>>>
>>> But an asshole who is very lonely, pretends to be some sort of a hotshot
>>> in a newsgroup and hijacks threads because whatever kind the attention
>>> whether positive or negative fills the void that mom and dad never gave
>>> or could have but was reluctant to give specifically to you and being
>>> friendless thus having only this newsgroup for some much-needed
>>> interaction. If you read my post initially, I think you would have
>>> gotten the hint that I'm trying the program out, but hey, you're all
>>> braun no brain... wait, certainly not even braun.
>>
>> Eva Braun?
>>
>>>> Apparently you're young, dumb and full of ......enthusiasm. Just don't
>>>> waste
>>>> your money and enthusiasm on fitness gurus and protein powder. There is
>>>> plenty of good advice on this newsgroup if you can wade through the
>>>> flame
>>>> wars.
>>>
>>> I don't claim to be an expert, and I openly admit that I use books to
>>> guide me because otherwise, I wouldn't know how to get started. Unlike
>>> you, I don't think I know everything.
>>
>> Books are fine. You don't seem to be understanding much of what you read.
>>>
>>> With all the energy you've put into flaming (I mean in this thread, not
>>> in your real life), try to actually give some good advice instead.
>>>
>>> SEAL
>>
>> Wannabe SEAL, right?
>
> Maybe he just really likes Heidi Klum.
>
> David
He strikes me as more of a Jodie Foster fan. Right now he's getting
"organizised."

In article <LDtah.3558$ql2.2069@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink. net>, "David
Cohen" <sammiesdad@earthlink.net> wrote:


>
> Maybe he just really likes Heidi Klum.

But that would be Seal vs. SEAL.
.....
>
> David

SEAL wrote:
>
> But before all of this, I wanted to try out Anthony Ellis' program, but
> it cost so much that I said I'll get it at the end of the year. I just
> ordered it a couple of days ago; it should be coming soon. However, the
> first 30 pages of his book are online in his Inner Circle site.

i have no idea what you're talking about, but the days of
super-expensive super-exclusive super-secret workout routines is long
gone. anyone asking more than the normal going rate for a workout
routine is ripping you off.

> With the (b), I got great results. Anthony Ellis says go to the gym
> half as much. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I want results. Is
> this right? Mike Mentzer preaches the same thing.

mike mentzer was also notorious for drinking his own urine.

>
> I'm almost thinking the Anthony Ellis book is bogus. What do you think?
> Do you lift heavy 6 or 3 days per week?

it depends. if i'm going heavy, i can really only handle working out
every other day for extended periods of time.

>
> SEAL

you look a lot bigger than 160 in your videos.

ps--how did you get all those scars on your face?

kcmunchkin@gmail.com wrote:
> SEAL wrote:
> >
> > But before all of this, I wanted to try out Anthony Ellis' program, but
> > it cost so much that I said I'll get it at the end of the year. I just
> > ordered it a couple of days ago; it should be coming soon. However, the
> > first 30 pages of his book are online in his Inner Circle site.
>
> i have no idea what you're talking about, but the days of
> super-expensive super-exclusive super-secret workout routines is long
> gone. anyone asking more than the normal going rate for a workout
> routine is ripping you off.

what i meant was: anyone asking more than the normal going rate of an
average book in a bookstore (under $30) for some super-special workout
is a scam artist.

Shute wrote:
> ATP has a few buddies in here just like him. They pick at every
> little thing others say but rarely offer any original advice of their
> own. Then accuse you of claiming to be an expert.

I think I got this Asshole Toilet Paper figured out:
1. It understands what "trying it out" means. The problem is it can't
even afford that. A measely $97 and it gawks at how expensive it is.
While I agree it is expensive, if it brings results, why not? If I had
the money, I'd get an Aston Martin. Ellis has a return policy so I
didn't lose anything. Worst case scenario I'll call my credit card and
have the payment rescinded. So ATP* is angry that others can try out
the product, but it can't so it masks it with "oooh... you must be dumb
and young BS".

2. No one is good enough to this dumb idiot. If I praise
Schwarzenegger, it'll undoubtedly find something to criticize. Surely,
if I mention the author of the book I've been using "Body Sculpting
Bible for Men", Jim Villepigue and Hugo Rivera, again it'll have
something snide. Mike Mentzer, who died at 50 was actually a relatively
thoughtful man, but still to Asshole Toilet Paper, he's just another
young dead guy. All of these guys have contrasting opinions on gym
time. One says, workout no longer than 1 hour, the other says no more
than 3 days, the other says no more than 6 days, etc. To ATP*, if they
have some sort of fame, they're a sort of a sellout, immediately
instigating some evil thought. The point here is the people I've
mentioned, dead or alive have something in common over Asshole Toilet
Paper... a great physique, fame, and success. What does ATP* have,
this newsgroup to annoy?

3. My psych profile on this creature seems to be right on: No friends,
its family loathe it and not even a dog would befriend it. The only
attention it can get is the negativity everyone reciprocates to it, and
it'll settle for that as long as it gets some attention. A bullet to
its head is a sure fire way to end the misery, and I'll bet its family
would be more than willing to assist.

SEAL

"JMW" <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
news:m5aim29jf9ppt0hicbm9ap9k0d4cdpa797@4ax.com...
> "ATP*" <waxwingslain@azurepane.com> wrote:
>>
>>Apparently you're young, dumb and full of ......enthusiasm. Just don't
>>waste
>>your money and enthusiasm on fitness gurus and protein powder. There is
>>plenty of good advice on this newsgroup if you can wade through the flame
>>wars.
>
> NO, DAMMIT!!!!!!!! He wants the Ideal Magic Training Program®!!!!!!
> He knows it's out there; he just has to buy the right book!

Jim Scannell and Matt Bickford were fucking geniuses compared to SEAL
Poseur and P. Shute.