Forearms and biceps

As part of my 5 day on 2 day off split routine, I usually do seated
rows, chins, lat pull downs, bent over rows etc and then follow that up
with a bit of isolated bicep/forearm work on the same day. Naturally my
arms are pre-exhausted before I start the isolated work and I know that
I can even skip the isolated work but is there some benefit to reversing
things? That is, should I try doing the arm work first before the
upper/middle back work for variety?

Cheers

--
Bob Volkmer

On Jan 3, 3:39 am, rev <m...@volkmer.biz> wrote:
> As part of my 5 day on 2 day off split routine, I usually do seated
> rows, chins, lat pull downs, bent over rows etc and then follow that up
> with a bit of isolated bicep/forearm work on the same day. Naturally my
> arms are pre-exhausted before I start the isolated work and I know that
> I can even skip the isolated work but is there some benefit to reversing
> things? That is, should I try doing the arm work first before the
> upper/middle back work for variety?
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Bob Volkmer

From personal experience I've found it's easier to feel/isolate the
non-arm component of the lift when the arm is pre-exhausted...but it
(arm exhaustion) will typically be the limiter on your workout too,
i.e., you may not be able to even 'cheat' your typical 'high' weight.
Arms first my seated cables (close grip, flat not leaning backwards
feet up) are 165# max vs 185 ~ 200#. But its a nice variation.

Richard

"rev" <mfw@volkmer.biz> wrote in message
news:13npba1kod8ibf7@corp.supernews.com...
> As part of my 5 day on 2 day off split routine, I usually do seated
> rows, chins, lat pull downs, bent over rows etc and then follow that up
> with a bit of isolated bicep/forearm work on the same day. Naturally my
> arms are pre-exhausted before I start the isolated work and I know that I
> can even skip the isolated work but is there some benefit to reversing
> things? That is, should I try doing the arm work first before the
> upper/middle back work for variety?

my vote is skip the isolation work and stick to compound exercises - I get
exhausted just reading about pre exhausting your small muscles - why
bother - do fewer exercises and hit them harder stick to your major muscle
groups

>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Bob Volkmer

"rev" <mfw@volkmer.biz> wrote in message
news:13npba1kod8ibf7@corp.supernews.com...
> As part of my 5 day on 2 day off split routine, I usually do seated
> rows, chins, lat pull downs, bent over rows etc and then follow that up
> with a bit of isolated bicep/forearm work on the same day. Naturally my
> arms are pre-exhausted before I start the isolated work and I know that I
> can even skip the isolated work but is there some benefit to reversing
> things? That is, should I try doing the arm work first before the
> upper/middle back work for variety?
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Bob Volkmer

Bob, I can't comment but thanks for a nice gym/weight related post!

Burr

In article <13npba1kod8ibf7@corp.supernews.com>, rev <mfw@volkmer.biz>
wrote:

> As part of my 5 day on 2 day off split routine, I usually do seated
> rows, chins, lat pull downs, bent over rows etc and then follow that up
> with a bit of isolated bicep/forearm work on the same day. Naturally my
> arms are pre-exhausted before I start the isolated work and I know that
> I can even skip the isolated work but is there some benefit to reversing
> things? That is, should I try doing the arm work first before the
> upper/middle back work for variety?
>

Obviously you are thinking in terms of hypertrophy here.

As a general rule I would say no. The arms are getting worked and as
long as you progress adaptation will take place. If you reverse it you
will have trouble completing compound movements for your back.

But it doesn't hurt once in a while to change things up. You could start
with the biceps/forearms, then do complex back/arm movements and then do
isolation movements (such as pullovers) for the back.

As usual how often depends on how your are progressing and what your
goals are. Lots of different roads to Rome, Bob.

--
Keith

On Jan 3, 4:39 am, rev <m...@volkmer.biz> wrote:
> As part of my 5 day on 2 day off split routine, I usually do seated
> rows, chins, lat pull downs, bent over rows etc and then follow that up
> with a bit of isolated bicep/forearm work on the same day. Naturally my
> arms are pre-exhausted before I start the isolated work and I know that
> I can even skip the isolated work but is there some benefit to reversing
> things? That is, should I try doing the arm work first before the
> upper/middle back work for variety?
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Bob Volkmer

I'm on a 4 days on and 1 day off split. Back is day two and I do
pulldowns, seated rows, and dumbbell rows followed by standing barbell
curls and alternating dumbbell curls. I always do my back first
followed by biceps, however pre-exhaust workouts were often
recommended by the creator of that particular system of exercise -
Robert Kennedy of MuscleMag International fame, if I'm not mistaken.

Googling Kennedy and pre-exhaust, I saw the following bit:

"Exercise order is crucial: You want to target those moves that allow
you to move the most weight - the multijoint moves we mentioned above
- earlier in your workout when your strength levels are highest.
Unless your goal is to pre-exhaust a particular muscle group that has
plateaued, starting a workout with an isolation movement (such as leg
extensions) will limit your ability to lift heavier weights with
compound movements (such as squats)."

So from that I gather that pre-exhausting a bodypart is good juju for
breaking through a stall in progress or the dreaded plateau. More:

"For the chest, by doing single-joint flyes followed quickly with
either multi-joint bench presses or pushups, you are performing the
"Pre-Exhaust System." Robert Kennedy, author of Bodybuilding Basics
(1991, Sterling Publishing Co.), says that he likes to use the pre-
exhaust principle on 1 body part at a time to 'jolt' the muscles into
new growth. "To pre-exhaust every muscle group, every workout, would
be too hard on the body." Pre-exhaust sets really zero in on a
specific muscle group that is insufficiently trained from just doing
sets of 1 regular multi-joint exercise such as a bench press. For
instance, bench presses indirectly work chest muscles because the
triceps and deltoids are also involved in the lift and are known as
the "weak links," according to Kennedy. However, by first doing single-
joint flyes (where triceps are virtually excluded), the chest muscles
are directly targeted. The chest, therefore, is "pre-exhausted" by a
set of single-joint flyes and gets additional training when multi-
joint bench presses rapidly follow. Thus, the single-joint/multi-joint
combination (done nonstop) thoroughly works the chest."

And, yes, even MORE (not that I'm not certain you're fully able to
Google things yourself, but please indulge my love of the big G):

"Pre exhaust was invented by Robert Kennedy of Muscle Mag
international and popularized in the Nautilus days of Arthur jones and
HIT training. A pre exhaust superset is where you choose an isolation
exercise first and then follow it with a compound exercise. This
allows you to take a target muscle group beyond the normal point of
fatigue and failure by using the assisting muscles in the 2nd
(compound) exercise. A true pre exhaust superset would be like a leg
extension supersetted to a squat, lunge or leg press. Another example
would be a leg curl supersetted to a stiff legged deadlift. Today we
did a "pseudo pre exhaust superset" by performing lying leg curls to
step back lunges. I say "Pseudo" because this was an isolation
followed by compound exercise, but lunges hit quads moreso than hams."

I'm really making progress on the four on/one off routine, but I love
my rest between sets too much to try that pre-exhaust schtuff. Mike
Mentzer was another big proponent of the principle. I remember
purchasing his mail order booklet as a teenager and it was identical
to what's described or copy/pasted above.

Happy New Year, Bob!

--
Curt

On Jan 3, 12:20 pm, Hobbes <khobman...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]

> <snip>The arms are getting worked and as
> long as you

Uh, did you skip a word or four here?

> progress adaptation will take place.

> <snip> Lots of different roads to Rome, Bob.

But are there any good gyms in Rome?

> Keith

--