Hey Keith

Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
Wondering what I can expect.
The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
a ball.
Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?

--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> schreef:

> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
> Wondering what I can expect.

I cant believe you actually took the time to type this.

> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
> a ball.
> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?

Hope your recovery is fast, and with minimal pain.

----
Pete

Bob Mann wrote:
> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
> Wondering what I can expect.
> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
> a ball.
> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?

While I am not Keith, and I do ride a horse better than he does, I torn
that exact same tendon last year. On the same arm that I hobmanized the
big distal biceps tendon about ten years ago.

Since it only reduces arm strength partially, and the other biceps head
and the brachialis can be trained to compensate (my orthopod estimated
I could rehab back to about 75% pre-injury strength), and the last
surgery to repair the distal tendon was a nightmare (actually, the
surgery was fine, the postop couple months were horrid!), I elected to
not fix this one.

Rotator cuff rehab stuff and biceps (I guess actually bicep)/brachialis
exercises is what I'm doing. It gets achy sometimes, and cramps
sometimes, but, life goes on.

David
not Keith

On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:25:02 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
wrote:

>"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> schreef:
>
>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>> Wondering what I can expect.
>
>I cant believe you actually took the time to type this.

Happened playing goal in soccer.
I finally got home at 2:15 AM and was wound up.
>
>> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>> a ball.
>> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>
>Hope your recovery is fast, and with minimal pain.

Actually, I had chronic tendonitis in that tendon. That's gone now.
The shoulder actually feels better. The biceps hurts a bit though.

--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Cohen wrote:
> Bob Mann wrote:

> > Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
> > Wondering what I can expect.
> > The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
> > a ball.
> > Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
> > Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>
> While I am not Keith, and I do ride a horse better than he does, I torn
> that exact same tendon last year. On the same arm that I hobmanized the
> big distal biceps tendon about ten years ago.
>
> Since it only reduces arm strength partially, and the other biceps head
> and the brachialis can be trained to compensate (my orthopod estimated
> I could rehab back to about 75% pre-injury strength), and the last
> surgery to repair the distal tendon was a nightmare (actually, the
> surgery was fine, the postop couple months were horrid!), I elected to
> not fix this one.

I'm curious what you (and Bob Mann) were doing when the tear took
place.

Years and years ago, certainly more than ten, while training at one of
the Lancaster Health Spa/Fitness America/Club Phoenix incarnations, a
fifty-something man displayed his bicep with the balled-up-tear
appearance. He said he was doing light dumbbell curls and the thing
just snapped and then rolled up like a blind. Say, what ARE those
rolly-curtain-blinds things called, anyway? Regardless, I'm mighty glad
I Googled "venetian blind":

http://www.sefeinmanfinearts.citymax...tian_blind.jpg


Ahem.

I was thinking that perhaps the repeated insult of heavy, ballistic
curls may have somehow perforated his biceps or biceps tendon so that a
five-pound dumbbell curl mighta been the proverbial final straw.

> Rotator cuff rehab stuff and biceps (I guess actually bicep)/brachialis
> exercises is what I'm doing. It gets achy sometimes, and cramps
> sometimes, but, life goes on.

Indeed.

> David
> not Keith

--
Curt

On 9 Dec 2006 05:00:20 -0800, "David Cohen" <sammiesdad@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Bob Mann wrote:
>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>> Wondering what I can expect.
>> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>> a ball.
>> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>
>While I am not Keith, and I do ride a horse better than he does, I torn
>that exact same tendon last year. On the same arm that I hobmanized the
>big distal biceps tendon about ten years ago.

That sounds much worse.
Frankly, this doesn't really hurt.
I've had chronic tendonitis in that tendon for a couple of years. That
pain is now gone.
I think there might be a small thread of the tendon left because if I
dig arounfd in there I can feel a thin thread of something and that
has some pain.
>
>Since it only reduces arm strength partially, and the other biceps head
>and the brachialis can be trained to compensate (my orthopod estimated
>I could rehab back to about 75% pre-injury strength), and the last
>surgery to repair the distal tendon was a nightmare (actually, the
>surgery was fine, the postop couple months were horrid!), I elected to
>not fix this one.

Right now it hurts to use it in the normal pulling motions such as
curling against resistance or reaching for something.
I've heard of others not having the surgery and they seemed okay if a
little misshapen.
I was at a non-emergent - urgent care hospital last night but the
attending seemed to know less about it than I did. I told him I
apeared to have avulsed the long head of the biceps and he allowed
that might be what it was but then he went and looked it up in a book.
I'm going to a sports medicine clinic this morning to have someone
more knowledgable look at it.
>
>Rotator cuff rehab stuff and biceps (I guess actually bicep)/brachialis
>exercises is what I'm doing. It gets achy sometimes, and cramps
>sometimes, but, life goes on.

It always does.
Unless it doesn't.

I quit lifting altogether because of pain and injuries. I was just
thinking about getting back into it. That might be put on the back
burner.
>
>David
>not Keith

Thanks.
--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:

> I'm curious what you (and Bob Mann) were doing when the tear took
> place.

I suspect deadlifts.

You are suposed to "relax" your arms, but involuntarely, you have a tendency
to flex them anyway.

And since is the weight is a lot heaver than either a BB curl or even a
row...

----
Pete

On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 16:09:04 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
wrote:

>"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:
>
>> I'm curious what you (and Bob Mann) were doing when the tear took
>> place.
>
>I suspect deadlifts.
Keith was.

I was playing goal in indoor soccer.
It was either stopping a shot or throwing the ball out.
--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> schreef:

>>> I'm curious what you (and Bob Mann) were doing when the tear took
>>> place.

>>I suspect deadlifts.

> Keith was.

> I was playing goal in indoor soccer.
> It was either stopping a shot or throwing the ball out.

Damn...
You dont exactly remember WHEN it happened?

Used to play indoor soccer a lot as a kid. That was either a very hard throw
or a stop.

Throwing seems unlikely. You use both arms and tris instead of bis.

----
Pete

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 02:55:25 -0600, Bob Mann <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote
in misc.fitness.weights:

>Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>Wondering what I can expect.
>The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>a ball.
>Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?

Shawn Cain has torn both of his and he had the surgery. I know he
would recommend having it done. He had his last one done at Mayo and
you wouldn't even know he had surgery by looking at his arm. I've
seen a lot of guys (just show up at Masters Nationals some time)
who've had it done and a lot of them have a nasty scar. I'm guessing
the new techniques are a lot better. Shawn's biceps attachments are
supposedly stronger now because of the surgery.

On 9 Dec 2006 06:28:59 -0800, "Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote:

>Cohen wrote:
>> Bob Mann wrote:
>
>> > Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>> > Wondering what I can expect.
>> > The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
led up like a blind. Say, what ARE those
>rolly-curtain-blinds things called, anyway? Regardless, I'm mighty glad
>I Googled "venetian blind":
>
>http://www.sefeinmanfinearts.citymax...tian_blind.jpg
>
>
I'm assuming her "FOAD Hudson" sign is on the table an out of the shot
....

"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:bmhln2dh2r30ecsqkb4jj4cbpgh2fhpmkt@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:25:02 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
> wrote:
>
>>"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> schreef:
>>
>>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>>> Wondering what I can expect.
>>
>>I cant believe you actually took the time to type this.
>
> Happened playing goal in soccer.
> I finally got home at 2:15 AM and was wound up.

Sorry to hear about your injury - perhaps an argument for better
shoulder flexibility for you in the future?

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


>>> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle
>>> in
>>> a ball.
>>> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>>> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>>
>>Hope your recovery is fast, and with minimal pain.
>
> Actually, I had chronic tendonitis in that tendon. That's gone now.
> The shoulder actually feels better. The biceps hurts a bit though.
>
> --
> Bob Mann
>
> Before you critisize someone,
> you should walk a mile in their shoes.
> That way, when you critisize them,
> you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 16:29:52 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
wrote:

>"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> schreef:
>
>>>> I'm curious what you (and Bob Mann) were doing when the tear took
>>>> place.
>
>>>I suspect deadlifts.
>
>> Keith was.
>
>> I was playing goal in indoor soccer.
>> It was either stopping a shot or throwing the ball out.
>
>Damn...
>You dont exactly remember WHEN it happened?

Nope, I had a few "moments".
>
>Used to play indoor soccer a lot as a kid. That was either a very hard throw
>or a stop.
>
>Throwing seems unlikely. You use both arms and tris instead of bis.
>
Not for throwing out of goal.
It's like the hamstring pull in track. The sudden elongation pulls it.
--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

On 9 Dec 2006 05:00:20 -0800, "David Cohen" <sammiesdad@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Bob Mann wrote:
>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>> Wondering what I can expect.
>> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>> a ball.
>> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>
>While I am not Keith, and I do ride a horse better than he does, I torn
>that exact same tendon last year. On the same arm that I hobmanized the
>big distal biceps tendon about ten years ago.
>
>Since it only reduces arm strength partially, and the other biceps head
>and the brachialis can be trained to compensate (my orthopod estimated
>I could rehab back to about 75% pre-injury strength), and the last
>surgery to repair the distal tendon was a nightmare (actually, the
>surgery was fine, the postop couple months were horrid!), I elected to
>not fix this one.
>
>Rotator cuff rehab stuff and biceps (I guess actually bicep)/brachialis
>exercises is what I'm doing. It gets achy sometimes, and cramps
>sometimes, but, life goes on.
>
>David
>not Keith

Follow up from the clinic.
No operation. It should be back up to normal strength in a few weeks
with work.
Mobility is all normal so they won't fix it.
They do fix the distal tendon but not the long head.
--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 10:33:00 -0600, John Hanson
<jhanson@northernlinks.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 02:55:25 -0600, Bob Mann <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote
>in misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>>Wondering what I can expect.
>>The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>>a ball.
>>Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>>Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>
>Shawn Cain has torn both of his and he had the surgery. I know he
>would recommend having it done. He had his last one done at Mayo and
>you wouldn't even know he had surgery by looking at his arm. I've
>seen a lot of guys (just show up at Masters Nationals some time)
>who've had it done and a lot of them have a nasty scar. I'm guessing
>the new techniques are a lot better. Shawn's biceps attachments are
>supposedly stronger now because of the surgery.

Did he tear his off the shoulder or the forearm?
I was told they will do the forearm but not the shoulder.

--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 14:53:38 -0500, "Steve Freides"
<steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

>"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:bmhln2dh2r30ecsqkb4jj4cbpgh2fhpmkt@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:25:02 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> schreef:
>>>
>>>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>>>> Wondering what I can expect.
>>>
>>>I cant believe you actually took the time to type this.
>>
>> Happened playing goal in soccer.
>> I finally got home at 2:15 AM and was wound up.
>
>Sorry to hear about your injury - perhaps an argument for better
>shoulder flexibility for you in the future?
>
My shoulders are pretty fucked anyway.
The irony is that this was the good one.
--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:37:17 -0600, Bob Mann <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote
in misc.fitness.weights:

>On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 10:33:00 -0600, John Hanson
><jhanson@northernlinks.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 02:55:25 -0600, Bob Mann <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote
>>in misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>>>Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>>>Wondering what I can expect.
>>>The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>>>a ball.
>>>Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>>>Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>>
>>Shawn Cain has torn both of his and he had the surgery. I know he
>>would recommend having it done. He had his last one done at Mayo and
>>you wouldn't even know he had surgery by looking at his arm. I've
>>seen a lot of guys (just show up at Masters Nationals some time)
>>who've had it done and a lot of them have a nasty scar. I'm guessing
>>the new techniques are a lot better. Shawn's biceps attachments are
>>supposedly stronger now because of the surgery.
>
>Did he tear his off the shoulder or the forearm?
>I was told they will do the forearm but not the shoulder.

His last one was at the forearm. I don't know about the first one.

In article <0dukn2h48n8fied69ri6j220ntuguai0bv@4ax.com>,
Bob Mann <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote:

> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
> Wondering what I can expect.
> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
> a ball.
> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?

Mine was at the forearm and I tore off both tendons.

I had surgery within a week and took about 3 months to heal. I was
pulling heavy about 9 months after the surgery.

With tendons I believe you want to get the surgery quickly. But your
injury is quite a bit different.

Keep me up-to-date! I'm going to read the rest of the thread before I
ask what happened! Good luck, Bob.

--
Keith

In article <1165669220.221805.138320@79g2000cws.googlegroups. com>,
"David Cohen" <sammiesdad@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bob Mann wrote:
> > Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
> > Wondering what I can expect.
> > The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
> > a ball.
> > Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
> > Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>
> While I am not Keith, and I do ride a horse better than he does,

Hmmph. All I saw was the horses's ass...

--
Keith

In article <457ad190$0$66006$dbd4f001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
"Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> "Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:
>
> > I'm curious what you (and Bob Mann) were doing when the tear took
> > place.
>
> I suspect deadlifts.
>
> You are suposed to "relax" your arms, but involuntarely, you have a tendency
> to flex them anyway.
>
> And since is the weight is a lot heaver than either a BB curl or even a
> row...

That's how I did mine. Partial from below the knee with 16 wheels...

--
Keith

In article <4u0ii3F167eruU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> "Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:bmhln2dh2r30ecsqkb4jj4cbpgh2fhpmkt@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:25:02 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> schreef:
> >>
> >>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
> >>> Wondering what I can expect.
> >>
> >>I cant believe you actually took the time to type this.
> >
> > Happened playing goal in soccer.
> > I finally got home at 2:15 AM and was wound up.
>
> Sorry to hear about your injury - perhaps an argument for better
> shoulder flexibility for you in the future?

Don't think the biceps tendon is an argument for shoulder flexibility.
Remember flexibility can lead to injury, Steve.

--
Keith

In article <8k7mn2978c3eg8qck2l6tdcpd8m5icsu6j@4ax.com>,
Bob Mann <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On 9 Dec 2006 05:00:20 -0800, "David Cohen" <sammiesdad@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Bob Mann wrote:
> >> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
> >> Wondering what I can expect.
> >> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
> >> a ball.
> >> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
> >> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
> >
> >While I am not Keith, and I do ride a horse better than he does, I torn
> >that exact same tendon last year. On the same arm that I hobmanized the
> >big distal biceps tendon about ten years ago.
> >
> >Since it only reduces arm strength partially, and the other biceps head
> >and the brachialis can be trained to compensate (my orthopod estimated
> >I could rehab back to about 75% pre-injury strength), and the last
> >surgery to repair the distal tendon was a nightmare (actually, the
> >surgery was fine, the postop couple months were horrid!), I elected to
> >not fix this one.
> >
> >Rotator cuff rehab stuff and biceps (I guess actually bicep)/brachialis
> >exercises is what I'm doing. It gets achy sometimes, and cramps
> >sometimes, but, life goes on.
> >
> >David
> >not Keith
>
> Follow up from the clinic.
> No operation. It should be back up to normal strength in a few weeks
> with work.
> Mobility is all normal so they won't fix it.
> They do fix the distal tendon but not the long head.

Makes some sense, really. The biceps role in shoulder flexion isn't that
huge.

--
Keith

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 22:29:28 GMT, Hobbes <khobman800@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>In article <1165669220.221805.138320@79g2000cws.googlegroups. com>,
> "David Cohen" <sammiesdad@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bob Mann wrote:
>> > Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>> > Wondering what I can expect.
>> > The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>> > a ball.
>> > Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>> > Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>>
>> While I am not Keith, and I do ride a horse better than he does,
>
>Hmmph. All I saw was the horses's ass...

"Look, that horse has two asses"
--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 22:31:56 GMT, Hobbes <khobman800@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>In article <4u0ii3F167eruU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>> "Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:bmhln2dh2r30ecsqkb4jj4cbpgh2fhpmkt@4ax.com...
>> > On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:25:02 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> schreef:
>> >>
>> >>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>> >>> Wondering what I can expect.
>> >>
>> >>I cant believe you actually took the time to type this.
>> >
>> > Happened playing goal in soccer.
>> > I finally got home at 2:15 AM and was wound up.
>>
>> Sorry to hear about your injury - perhaps an argument for better
>> shoulder flexibility for you in the future?
>
>Don't think the biceps tendon is an argument for shoulder flexibility.
>Remember flexibility can lead to injury, Steve.

My right shoulder was always pretty flexible. The left one was too
until I developed arthritis in it.

It has a pretty nice peak to the biceps now. Unfortunately, it's right
at the elbow.

Same thing happened to a friend of mine. He was one of those people
with a large spacebetween the elbow and the biceps. The tear made it
normal.
--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:38:58 -0600, Bob Mann <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote
in misc.fitness.weights:

>On 9 Dec 2006 05:00:20 -0800, "David Cohen" <sammiesdad@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Bob Mann wrote:
>>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>>> Wondering what I can expect.
>>> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>>> a ball.
>>> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>>> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>>
>>While I am not Keith, and I do ride a horse better than he does, I torn
>>that exact same tendon last year. On the same arm that I hobmanized the
>>big distal biceps tendon about ten years ago.
>>
>>Since it only reduces arm strength partially, and the other biceps head
>>and the brachialis can be trained to compensate (my orthopod estimated
>>I could rehab back to about 75% pre-injury strength), and the last
>>surgery to repair the distal tendon was a nightmare (actually, the
>>surgery was fine, the postop couple months were horrid!), I elected to
>>not fix this one.
>>
>>Rotator cuff rehab stuff and biceps (I guess actually bicep)/brachialis
>>exercises is what I'm doing. It gets achy sometimes, and cramps
>>sometimes, but, life goes on.
>>
>>David
>>not Keith
>
>Follow up from the clinic.
>No operation. It should be back up to normal strength in a few weeks
>with work.
>Mobility is all normal so they won't fix it.
>They do fix the distal tendon but not the long head.

Is that due to universal health care?

On 9 Dec 2006 05:00:20 -0800, "David Cohen" <sammiesdad@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Bob Mann wrote:
>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>> Wondering what I can expect.
>> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>> a ball.
>> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>
>While I am not Keith, and I do ride a horse better than he does, I torn
>that exact same tendon last year.

You tore Keith's tendon last year? You bastid!

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 09:22:39 -0600, Bob Mann <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 16:09:04 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
>wrote:
>
>>"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:
>>
>>> I'm curious what you (and Bob Mann) were doing when the tear took
>>> place.
>>
>>I suspect deadlifts.
>Keith was.
>
>I was playing goal in indoor soccer.
>It was either stopping a shot or throwing the ball out.

Take up hockey.

"Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:khobman800-8DA6A7.16315409122006@shawnews.ca...
> In article <4u0ii3F167eruU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>> "Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:bmhln2dh2r30ecsqkb4jj4cbpgh2fhpmkt@4ax.com...
>> > On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:25:02 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> schreef:
>> >>
>> >>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>> >>> Wondering what I can expect.
>> >>
>> >>I cant believe you actually took the time to type this.
>> >
>> > Happened playing goal in soccer.
>> > I finally got home at 2:15 AM and was wound up.
>>
>> Sorry to hear about your injury - perhaps an argument for better
>> shoulder flexibility for you in the future?
>
> Don't think the biceps tendon is an argument for shoulder flexibility.
> Remember flexibility can lead to injury, Steve.

Studies I've read about indicate that a deficit between passive and
active flexibility is what increases risk of injury. I am not
suggesting (nor do I usually) an increase in passive flexibility. These
pictures demonstrate above average active flexibility in the shoulders,
IMHO.

http://www.girevoysport.ru/IMAGES/COVER2.JPG

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2003/doublesnatch2a.jpg

Arms straight, straight up, at or behind the ears when viewed from the
side, traps down, shoulder firmly in socket.

A soccer goalie needs flexible shoulders. I don't think active
flexibility carries with it an increased risk of injury. Barbell
overhead squats with a narrow grip and a light weight are a good start,
kind of semi-active flexibility because you can use your grip on the bar
to force the flexibility but, all in all, one could do worse.

All OK w/ you, boss?

BTW, you should get a copy of Stuart McGill's (a fellow Canadian) back
book if you haven't already - as close to the Holy Grail as we are ever
likely to see when it comes to issues of strength and flexibility as
they relate to the spine. Link:

http://www.backfitpro.com/ultbackbook.htm

I mention it we're talking about the dangers of flexibility in certain
circumstances and this book because it argues against working to
increase lumbar spinal flexibility for most people most of the time.


-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

> --
> Keith

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 16:13:48 -0800, Lucas Buck
<sbcpark@earthlink.NOSPAM.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 09:22:39 -0600, Bob Mann <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 16:09:04 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:
>>>
>>>> I'm curious what you (and Bob Mann) were doing when the tear took
>>>> place.
>>>
>>>I suspect deadlifts.
>>Keith was.
>>
>>I was playing goal in indoor soccer.
>>It was either stopping a shot or throwing the ball out.
>
>Take up hockey.

And fuck up everything else? :-)
--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 17:20:46 -0600, John Hanson
<jhanson@northernlinks.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:38:58 -0600, Bob Mann <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote
>in misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>On 9 Dec 2006 05:00:20 -0800, "David Cohen" <sammiesdad@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Bob Mann wrote:
>>>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>>>> Wondering what I can expect.
>>>> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>>>> a ball.
>>>> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>>>> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>>>
>>>While I am not Keith, and I do ride a horse better than he does, I torn
>>>that exact same tendon last year. On the same arm that I hobmanized the
>>>big distal biceps tendon about ten years ago.
>>>
>>>Since it only reduces arm strength partially, and the other biceps head
>>>and the brachialis can be trained to compensate (my orthopod estimated
>>>I could rehab back to about 75% pre-injury strength), and the last
>>>surgery to repair the distal tendon was a nightmare (actually, the
>>>surgery was fine, the postop couple months were horrid!), I elected to
>>>not fix this one.
>>>
>>>Rotator cuff rehab stuff and biceps (I guess actually bicep)/brachialis
>>>exercises is what I'm doing. It gets achy sometimes, and cramps
>>>sometimes, but, life goes on.
>>>
>>>David
>>>not Keith
>>
>>Follow up from the clinic.
>>No operation. It should be back up to normal strength in a few weeks
>>with work.
>>Mobility is all normal so they won't fix it.
>>They do fix the distal tendon but not the long head.
>
>Is that due to universal health care?

The explanation is that there is little benefit to be gained.
Strength will return to 90% or more with proper exercise and the rehab
is easier for the torn tendon than the patched one.
The main benefit of the operation is that the muscle looks better but
it wonlt be any stronger.
However, I have not ruled it out and I will be visiting another clinic
as well as the hospital.
--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 16:11:28 -0800, Lucas Buck
<sbcpark@earthlink.NOSPAM.net> wrote:

>On 9 Dec 2006 05:00:20 -0800, "David Cohen" <sammiesdad@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Bob Mann wrote:
>>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>>> Wondering what I can expect.
>>> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>>> a ball.
>>> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>>> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>>
>>While I am not Keith, and I do ride a horse better than he does, I torn
>>that exact same tendon last year.
>
>You tore Keith's tendon last year? You bastid!

He's never claimed to be a nice man.
Good job he isn't Canadian, he'd implode.
--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Bob Mann wrote:

> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
> Wondering what I can expect.
> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
> a ball.
> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?

Geez, that sounds pretty owie, Bob. Were you having problems with the
tendon before the tear? I've been having problems with the forearm
tendon of my left biceps for a few months now. I have been working
around it by warming up with a tinker toy sized DB before doing anything
but I still have to baby it quite a lot.

I also have problems with it when I am playing guitar. It can be quite
painful to have the elbow bent at the same angle for long periods of
time. I have to remember to keep flexing the arm after every piece to
avoid the pain.

Were you having any kind of symtoms like that? If so, do you think you
could have done anything to heal it before you tore it?

Stephen Nishio

In article <4u1d6jF16735bU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> "Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:khobman800-8DA6A7.16315409122006@shawnews.ca...
> > In article <4u0ii3F167eruU1@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >> news:bmhln2dh2r30ecsqkb4jj4cbpgh2fhpmkt@4ax.com...
> >> > On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:25:02 +0100, "Pete" <phoutstra@wanadoo.nl>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>"Bob Mann" <Bobo@nowhere.com> schreef:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
> >> >>> Wondering what I can expect.
> >> >>
> >> >>I cant believe you actually took the time to type this.
> >> >
> >> > Happened playing goal in soccer.
> >> > I finally got home at 2:15 AM and was wound up.
> >>
> >> Sorry to hear about your injury - perhaps an argument for better
> >> shoulder flexibility for you in the future?
> >
> > Don't think the biceps tendon is an argument for shoulder flexibility.
> > Remember flexibility can lead to injury, Steve.
>
> Studies I've read about indicate that a deficit between passive and
> active flexibility is what increases risk of injury. I am not
> suggesting (nor do I usually) an increase in passive flexibility. These
> pictures demonstrate above average active flexibility in the shoulders,
> IMHO.
>
> http://www.girevoysport.ru/IMAGES/COVER2.JPG
>
> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2003/doublesnatch2a.jpg
>
> Arms straight, straight up, at or behind the ears when viewed from the
> side, traps down, shoulder firmly in socket.
>
> A soccer goalie needs flexible shoulders. I don't think active
> flexibility carries with it an increased risk of injury. Barbell
> overhead squats with a narrow grip and a light weight are a good start,
> kind of semi-active flexibility because you can use your grip on the bar
> to force the flexibility but, all in all, one could do worse.
>
> All OK w/ you, boss?
>
> BTW, you should get a copy of Stuart McGill's (a fellow Canadian) back
> book if you haven't already - as close to the Holy Grail as we are ever
> likely to see when it comes to issues of strength and flexibility as
> they relate to the spine. Link:
>
> http://www.backfitpro.com/ultbackbook.htm
>
> I mention it we're talking about the dangers of flexibility in certain
> circumstances and this book because it argues against working to
> increase lumbar spinal flexibility for most people most of the time.
>
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
> > --
> > Keith
>
>

So how do you go from saying studies indicate a deficit between active
and passive flexibility increase the chance of injury to prescribing
increased flexibility? At best you could say reduce the deficit which
could mean _less_ passive flexibility training.

I agree there are times flexibility is desirable and a soccer goalie
needs flexiblity shoulders. But the connection between flexibility (or
lack of it) and injuries is tenuous at best and largely based on
unproven assumptions.

--
Keith

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:42:43 GMT, "Stephen N."
<Steelystephen@coldmail.com> wrote:

>Bob Mann wrote:
>
>> Seems I just tore my biceps tendon at the shoulder.
>> Wondering what I can expect.
>> The long head appears to completely torn away with half the muscle in
>> a ball.
>> Did you have surgery when you had this happen?
>> Was yours at the shoulder of the forearm?
>
>Geez, that sounds pretty owie, Bob. Were you having problems with the
>tendon before the tear? I've been having problems with the forearm
>tendon of my left biceps for a few months now. I have been working
>around it by warming up with a tinker toy sized DB before doing anything
>but I still have to baby it quite a lot.
>
>I also have problems with it when I am playing guitar. It can be quite
>painful to have the elbow bent at the same angle for long periods of
>time. I have to remember to keep flexing the arm after every piece to
>avoid the pain.
>
>Were you having any kind of symtoms like that? If so, do you think you
>could have done anything to heal it before you tore it?
>
>Stephen Nishio

Oooh, another blast from the past.
Other than the aforementioned, how are you?

Yes, I was having chronic tendonitis in that tendon over a period of
2-3 years. I was told that can foreshadow a tear as it weakens the
tendon.
At least I can still play the guitar without pain since the shoulder
isn't involved as much. (Still can't play it very well though)

I had become so used to having tendon pain around my shoulders I did
nothing. Curls and pulldowns hurt so I didn't do them. In retrospect I
should have been getting some physio on it but it was just one of half
a dozen problems I was having.
--
Bob Mann

Before you critisize someone,
you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you critisize them,
you're a mile away and you have their shoes.